Rape culture frat boy style.
This was originally published in 2010 and updated in 2018.
Oct.15, 2010: This week, a YouTube clip of a Yale University Delta Kappa Epsilon pledging ritual went viral on campus. Posted Wednesday night, immediately after the events took place, the video documents the DKE pledges marching blindfolded on Old Campus—home to the majority of Yale’s freshman women—shouting chants such as “No means yes, yes means anal” and “Fucking sluts.”
The Yale Women’s Center responded in a statement to the Yale Daily News:
This action by DKE has made public that they see rape as a joke or, worse, something they support. That these calls may have been made in jest should not distract from the fact that they incite violence.
On Thursday, DKE president Jordan Forney made a public apology, calling the chants “inappropriate, disrespectful, and very hurtful to others.” He said the stunt was “a lapse in judgment” and “in poor taste.”
Is this statement enough? Broad Recognition, a Yale feminist publication, urged students Thursday to demand administrative action against the fraternity, whose actions it called “fear-mongering” and “a call to violence.”
“Yale women are not new to fraternity misogyny, nor are we a stranger to our administration sitting on their hands and doing absolutely nothing about it,” the writer of the article, Hannah Zeavin, told the Good Men Project.
Other students think the reaction is overblown. “These chants are not dangerous,” said a comment on the Daily News story.
Do the frat’s actions merit university discipline? More importantly, will a slap on the wrist—which is more likely to occur—do anything to prevent future demonstrations of frat-sanctioned misogyny?
PUBLISHERS NOTE: The original video is no longer available, but you can find a clip of it on The Young Turks on YouTube.
This is particularly distressing in light of the recent nomination of Brett Kavanaugh, who was a part of the secret society who had as its motto: “No means yes, yes means anal.”
In today’s Yale Daily News: what Brett Kavanaugh was up to back in his school days, when he belonged to a secret society known as “tit and clit”. Motto: No means yes. Yes means anal. pic.twitter.com/ft4JXIGaJY
— joyce maynard (@joycemaynard) September 20, 2018
Boys will be boys. I still say and do stupid things to my friends, men and women. The operative word is friends. They’re people who’ve known me a long time, people I trust and who trust me. These chants were not directed at their friends. I don’t know if it was criminal, but it was definitely uncool. One way to check their intentions is to look at their behavior after the fact. Does anyone know if they issued an apology and did it seem sincere? Everyone does stupid stuff now and again, but when you hurt someone, you apologize.
If this happened at my university they would have been in deep, deep shit (our frat boys put up anti-rape posters around campus and serious things can happen to people for hate speech, even when it isn’t organized). Quite honestly, I don’t think there’s anything lawful or harmless about something like this and I don’t consider it reasonable to expect anyone, male or female, to stand face to face with a mob like that and try to make them stop. Something like this doesn’t come out of nowhere, and it certainly makes me glad I don’t go to Yale (I… Read more »
This is in no way an excuse for their behavior, but I would point out that these young men probably make lots of jokes about men being raped, probably lots of jokes about frat members raping each other. This is an outward manifestation of internal stuff that just happens to be directed at nearby women. My theory is that much of this is just overcompensating for their own insecurities about their sexuality. It’s homophobia twisted around into misogyny: “Look how straight I am – I’m yelling that I want to have sex with women whether they consent or not!” Men… Read more »
People that get annoyed about feminists getting annoyed = not really people that have a full grasp on what feminism is. Terming feminists as uppity, picky and easily offended, irrational idealists invalidates what is their argument, and their argument is based on something quite rational and real. To deny that what happened is sexist is ridiculous. Someone else made the point that if they had gone marching through a black neighbourhood yelling about lynching and torturing black people, the reaction the public would have would be a lot different. Call me an uppity feminist- I suppose I see nothing funny… Read more »
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How ridiculous. Is rape a problem on the Yale campus? How many have been reported? Probably zero. So fraternity antics are just what they are …antics. If you want to see REAL hatred, take a “women’s study” class at Yale, and I’m sure you’ll see more bigotry and fearmongering than you EVER would during pledge rituals.
I thought this site was to celebrate men…but it’s just another propaganda site for the politically correct, it seems, based on the uncritical inclusion of articles like this.
That’s a terrifying thing to say. The number of rapes that occur (and the smaller number reported) on post-secondary school campuses is obscenely high. If you don’t think “No means yes, yes means anal” is hate-filled, you’re blind.
Let me suggest you imagine a troupe of women with dildos and gay men shout that at you as you head to your job or classes. Feel good? Feel safe?
It’s also a site to explore what being a good man is and to challenge men to strive for that ideal.
Late to this discussion. The headline led me to think there may have been rape involved.
Apparently not. I guess that’s journalism today.
Male organizations that promote an aggressive version of masculinity are going to be considerably more likely to have rape problems. This is true of the military, of fraternities, perhaps of sports teams. I should stress that these are tendencies, not universal maxims–I have friends and family in all of the above groups–but, as tendencies, they are supported by data. (In fairness, I haven’t found much data either way on sports teams.)
There’s a lot of interesting discussion going on, and I dunno if anyone wants to revisit it, but boys will be boys and call each other faggots and punch each other and eat dirt. I think its part of the developing process. If you remember how you felt when you were younger, it was fucking weird and middle school will always suck forever since its middle school and biology dictates you have hormones making drug cocktails for young developing minds, so you act crazy anyway! If they aren’t doing this, they are hanging out with girls and playing with other… Read more »
If the frat boys had been saying racist stuff nobody would defend them. I wonder if boys will be boys would be a good enough excuse for KKK style chanting outside a black church for instance? Would that be all good fun and letting off steam?
Oh yes and Feminism is just fine because it gets to the reality of our nasty little rape culture – something I suspect you’d like to deny or trvialise.
Boys will be boys is always a nice excuse for the threat of rape. Good job.
Maybe there is something in the water at Yale. I dated a guy from Yale and he turned out not to be a good guy. “On Thursday, DKE president Jordan Forney made a public apology, calling the chants “inappropriate, disrespectful, and very hurtful to others.” He said the stunt was “a lapse in judgment” and “in poor taste.” I hope all the mothers, sisters and girlfriends of these “men” know exactly what they were doing. But you know what’s just as bad? Other men that let guys like this get away with this stuff and stand on the side lines… Read more »
A group of Yale frat boys said reprehensible things on initiation night
+ the one guy you dated from Yale was “not a good guy”
=/= “there is something in the water at Yale”.
Yale ’09
Ah, yes, women are equal and therefore it’s the responsibility of men to protect them since they can’t protect themselves. If a woman feels intimidated, that’s because of misogyny. If a man feels intimidated, it’s because he’s a coward.
I was going to comment to say roughly the same thing. I don’t think the women standing idly by are any more innocent than the men. Some might say it’s scarier for a woman to confront that kind of situation, but I think it would be equally hard for a man to do it.
Men don’t owe women protection, but good people stand up for other people.
I wonder what Yale’s sexual harassment policies are and if Yale women could band together to form something like a class action suit against the fraternity…
Acts of violence are not protected by free speech, nor is speech encouraging violence.
Thumbs down for a profound misunderstanding of first amendment jurisprudence.
In the 1969 Supreme Court case Brandenburg v. Ohio, speech which would be directed to and likely to cause lawless action was banned. So speech encouraging violence against a specific group is banned. However, the issue becomes whether or not this was encouraging violence against women, which these men would make the argument that it was not, just a thoughtless antic. I don’t personally believe that these kids thought these sayings are true, but the fact that they are saying them is what’s important. You should never say such things, even in jest. Having someone say these things starts them… Read more »
Never mind that the best way to cancel out the importance of a topic is to make fun of it. Arguing against humor never wins, because humor robs whatever power a problem has. Imagine arguing against a comedian about misogyny–honestly, in the end, you’d look like someone arguing with a ten-year-old to the audience. Humor does not lead to serious discussion, and serious discussion is what this frat needs.
a GOOD comment, Holly! : https://goodmenproject.com/2010/10/15/in-yale-fraternity-pledging-rape-is-laughing-matter/#comment-2829 AND: Some of a discussion from a different page (http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/10/09/shroedingers-rapist-and-the-imagined-right-to-intrude/): “Liza-the-second October 8, 2009 at 5:45 am # Consider: if every rapist commits an average of ten rapes (a horrifying number, isn’t it?) then the concentration of rapists in the population is still a little over one in sixty. You know, it never occurred to me before now, but I’ve never seen that “one in six” (or however many) statistic turned around that way, and I think that’s probably the other side of the “how not to get raped” coin. Or… I guess… the… Read more »
About half way down the comments, Daddy Files asks the following question: “What culture do you live in that condones rape and misogyny?” ARE YOU KIDDING, Daddy Files? What culture do I live in that condones rape and misogyny? Oh my god. “1 in 6 women will be sexually assaulted in their life time.” (http://www.rainn.org/statistics) “College age women are 4 times more likely to be sexually assaulted” (ibid.) Some more edification: “Approximately 2/3 of rapes were committed by someone known to the victim. 73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger. 38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.… Read more »
does anyone know the names of the fraternity boys?
Reeks of publicity stunt to me. Frankly I wld have expected something a little more imaginative. London and I are not amused.
The guys who did this should spend some time answering phones at a rape crisis hotline or volunteering at a shelter for battered women.
I have volunteered on a rape helpline for the last 3 years. It is a ridiculous notion to suggest that any of these men should be allowed anywhere near a position that requires a great deal more sensitivity and understanding than they possess. They could do untold damage to somebody phoning a helpline. Yes it would be great if they could learn more about rape and its effects and educate themselves but not at the expense of the women who telephone in their most vulnerable moments.
As a female college student, I would have to agree that those chants were incredibly inappropriate. It’s not exactly a comforting feeling for a freshman woman to hear a mob of men saying that there is no way of saying no. If I had heard that, even knowing it was done jokingly, I would be completely offended, and honestly, scared. I don’t know any of these guys, and yet they’re telling me that I can’t say anything to stop them if they’ve got me cornered. It is totally insensitive. As this is a fraternity, the university should take action. If… Read more »
What scares me most about this story is that everyone knows that behind every jest is a modicum of truth. Someplace within this chapter, someone within this organization said this in jest, but probably believes at least part of it to be true. Enough to maybe blur the lines that when someone says no, they might really mean yes. That someone has enough influence, that a larger group of people ignored their own better judgment (at least I like to think they had better judgment) to go along. For the purposes of belonging to a group where someone of influence… Read more »
By them I mean every single member of that group, because even if it wasn’t there idea, even if they weren’t involved, they did NOTHING to stop it. Who knows what else they will do nothing to stop.
How do you know that no one complained. Unless you were there or a part of “internal’ discussions you really don’t know what was said so your comment is just speculation. And speculation based upon emotion can be just as dangerous.
This fraternity should lose its charter and be disbanded. Everyone that participated ought to be subject to some sort of disciplinary action. It is no longer a fraternity, it is a hate group. Fraternities can do a lot of good. They are social organizations that can provide structure and support to college students as well as a basis and platform for life-long friendships. But, they are also in-groups and a bit of a mutual-admiration society. Partially because of this fraternity members are more likely (than non-fraternity members) to commit a rape, use coercion, use alcohol as a tool of coercion… Read more »
For what it’s worth, DKE pledging has already been suspended and there will be pretty serious consequences.
Hey JP, do you have a source on this? Email me. [email protected]
This is sad beyond words for so many different reasons. But you know who this sort of thing both terrifies and incites violence from the most? Fathers who have daughters. While I plan on teaching my daughter respect and tolerance, I also plan on showing her the results of passivity in the face of oppression in any form. It’s true that Gandhi didn’t physically fight back, but he always fought. I’m not Gandhi and I can’t even post what I would do if my daughter was of age and someone spoke these words to her. Actually by then she’ll be… Read more »
I agree with making their names public and punishing the organizers of the march. Great post, thank you.
If I have read your post correctly…thank you. This was well put.
Every single one of these boys needs to understand why his actions were wrong, not just cringe and slink away because they got caught doing something naughty.
That’s exactly correct.
We ALL, every single one of us have done something stupid that we regret.
But did we learn from it?
Did we take responsibility for it and make good?
That’s what separates the children from the adults. And I’m not trying to denigrate children either, there are a lot of kids I’ve seen with more responsibility than what showed up at Yale.
Best,
Dare
It looks to me like the participants may have violated Connecticut’s Bias laws. According to the Connecticut Office of Legal Research it appears to be a Second Degree criminal violation and a Class D felony if convicted. Here’s the link to a law report which spells it out pretty clearly:
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0276.htm
This would in no way constitute a Class D felony. The person(s) would have to: 1. Make physical contact (they didn’t) 2. Damage, destroy, or deface property (they didn’t, to my knowledge) 3. Threaten these things AND THE VICTIM HAS REASONABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE HE WILL CARRY OUT THE THREAT. This means the plaintiff (i.e., the victim) must prove to the courts that they have reasonable cause to believe that specific person(s) X will carry out the threat. Who is the plaintiff? Any person on campus? Any girl on campus? Which boy(s)? All of them? Simply because of this march… Read more »
Read it carefully. I think it could even be argued to fall under First Degree crime of bias, a Class C felony. These are the elements of 2nd Degree Bias under Connecticut law: A person commits the second degree crime if he acts maliciously and intends to intimidate or harass someone because of his actual or perceived race, religion, ethnicity, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity or expression if he (point 3) threatens to either (point 1) make physical contact (i.e., “no means yes”–‘You say no to sex with me, I will make you have sex with me.’ That’s an… Read more »
Again, stupid – yes. Disgusting, perhaps to many. If you want to go to race, immigrants could also feel threatened by anti-immigrant, pro-white (ie, white supremacist) marchers.
The law doesn’t work the way you are reading it (and for good reason). If you really believe it does, find precedent.
Sure, I can do that. I’ll call this group tomorrow and discuss the case with them.
…”[T]he Connecticut Women’s Education and Legal Fund (CWEALF) Hate Crimes Project…both records hate incidents and advocates for victims as well. They can be contacted at (860) 247-6090 or Toll-Free (800) 479-2949.”
Or, you could do it too if you’re really interested.
This is sexual harrassment. These men are outside the Yale women’s centre calling female students sluts and threatening sexual violence against them. Their speech constitutes sexual harrassment of all female students at the university. Public and private institutions have a duty of care to protect their members, employees, students etc. from sexual harrassment. Therefore these men need to be punished. Failure to do so would be discriminatory to their female students. As someone mentioned earlier, the inability of some men to see this as anything but an offensive, bad taste joke is due to male privilege. These men can brush… Read more »
Yes, it was hateful, ignorant, horrible, etc. etc. and arguably inciting violence. However, two things I noticed missing (thru about half the posts as of Oct 16 9:01am):
1. This is a leaked video from a private gathering.
2. Maybe we should also be questioning, as, say, feminists, whether or not corporations (and yes, that’s what Yale is) should be empowered to regulate the speech of its members on its premises. I suppose we should reimpose mandatory uniforms to complement our 21st century surveillance cameras that increasingly cover our every movement within “Yale’s” space?
1. It may or may not be a “leaked” video. It sure the hell was NOT a private gathering. It was a public display on an open campus common area. Video of the march may have been taken by any number of the campus employees, residents or visitors. 2. While the administration may be corporate members, the student body is not. See the Yale Corporation organizational chart: http://www.yale.edu/oir/open/pdf_public/W102_Org_Chart.pdf Regardless, I’m sure that the acceptance of an offer to study at Yale and the payment of tuition constitute an acceptance of whatever campus rules and regulations are in place at the… Read more »
(tried to post this several times, think it didn’t post b/c of an ACLU link, so here it is w/out it) 1. Students are not EMPLOYEES of the corporation. They are still members, and it is being stated that as members, they are subjected to different legal rules and regulations pertaining to free speech. 2. Let’s say that members of a Yale anti-immigration group showed up to East Haven and countered a pro-immigration group. Let us say that they held up signs that were borderline white supremacist and certainly anti-immigrant, arguably inciting violence. Deplorable as their message is, should they… Read more »