The Good Men Project’s Aaron Gouveia caused quite a media flurry a couple days ago when we published his video and essay, showing his confrontation with two protesters outside the abortion clinic where his wife was going through the procedure. Picked up by Rachel Maddow, Slate Magazine, and Salon (among others), his story is our most read article to date.
And rightly so. The debate surrounding abortion rights may be vitriolic at times, but it’s a subject that needs to be discussed. While we took the side of Gouveia and his wife, many disagree. For instance, here’s an excerpt from an article by Jill Stanek:
I cannot imagine the grief parents experience after receiving an adverse diagnosis like that, but the solution is never to kill their baby. While I have met many women who regretted killing their fatally ill babies, I have never met a mother who regretted carrying her dying child until natural delivery, even if her baby was born dead.
Of course there are the adverse psychological consequences of abortion. Gouveia and his wife may receive an emotional bump from all the pro-abort support now, but after the publicity has died away, they will be left with the cold hard fact that they killed their handicapped baby.
You can read the rest of the article on Opposingview’s website. So, readers: what do you think? Does Stanek have a point? Comments are welcome below.
Super Website…
[…] that is the end of this article. Here you’ll find some sites that we think you’ll appreciate, just click the links over[…]…
Wow. I am saddened & angered but not at all shocked by how insensitive & cruel you are, Ms. Stanek. How terrifying it is that you are actually a nurse! How is it you & your group of judgmental, hypocritical nut-jobs can actually say you are dismayed with being labeled as violent criminals and actually try to deny being evil & violent when your words & deeds prove that you obviously are scary religious self righteous zealots? I am actually frightened of people like you, as you are the ones that spread your messages regarding your ‘pro-life” stance by screaming… Read more »
Maeghann you are a nut case. I can’t believe you would write such a ridiculous statement.. I wonder if you would feel that way while your body was being torn into pieces. What you mean to say is you are pro death as long as you are not the one dying. You have no love for mankind and I would hardly call you a little god just a BIG NUT!
LOL, Carol. I’m sorry I scared and offended you so much, it wasn’t my intention. Honey, if *I* die, I am also part of the circle of life, and I’m not afraid of it. Please don’t assume things, or put words into my mouth. My statement comes out of a genuine care for my species as a whole, in part from long study of ecosystems and biological sciences. It *is* a bit tongue-in-cheek, A-La-Johnathan Swift, because I wanted to highlight some of the hysteria and ridiculousness going on around this subject. Peace 🙂
As a quick but belated NB: I fully advocate birth control as the FIRST line of responsibility in the whole “reproduction” argument, especially in regards to the stewardship of our planet and species. It’s much easier, and much more loving, to prevent the conception from happening in the first place. IUDs, pills, Nuva-Rings, condoms, the list goes on! There’s even been some advances in MALE hormonal birth-control, how awesome is that? As another note: http://www.imnotsorry.net/ is a great, refreshing counterpoint to the rhetoric of Stanek and people like her. It is a site where women share their stories of NOT… Read more »
Jill and John are right on. I am amazed at how twisted people are. You can come up with all kinds of excuses to kill an unborn child. As a mother I would never consider aborting one of my babies. Furthermore, you have called evil good. It is incredible how some of you people villanize people who are pro life and have the audacity to call them doctor murderers while making a hero of the father and mother who selfishly take the life of their unborn baby. Shame on you.
I have an unpopular voice to bring to this debate, but someone needs to say it: Why are we having so much trouble with killing human beings? *I* believe that this is something we need to be doing MORE, not LESS, of– but we need to be doing it in conscious, compassionate, and well-thought-out ways. Murders of passion are NOT the answer to our overpopulation problem, nor are murders of politics, although I appreciate both for their positive impact on the “carbon footprint” of the human race. However, death needs to happen, NEEDS to happen, in order to keep our… Read more »
I don’t know. I can’t for a second imagine my husband taking me to get our child aborted or even suggesting such a thing. What kind of husband and father does that?
So an abortion has “adverse psychological consequences” … but carrying a slowly dying unborn child inside of you for NINE MONTHS has no psychological effect? That’s just ridiculous. I know I’m not a medical doctor, but I don’t really know of any way you can live without a bladder or kidneys. Therefore, there was absolutely no miracle coming… there was no chance of this baby ever taking a breath of its own. What possible purpose would have been served in forcing this poor woman to drag this out? To appease others misguided judgmental morality? I’m not going to say that… Read more »
“At grade school levels science is black and white. Real science is complicated and things are rarely clear cut. What constitutes life is not simple or easily defined.” Wow! Real science can now provide a detailed millisecond understanding of the process of fertilization and has confirmed that a unique, self-directed life exists at the very beginning of fertilization. Please take the time to educate yourself on this. For you life may not be easily defined, but at the moment fertilization begins, a new unique, never to be repeated human life has commenced. Understand what life means to a biologist and… Read more »
The choice Aaron and his wife made was to kill their disabled child. That child was presumably still alive when his wife went in for her abortion. (If the child wasn’t, then she was in the process of miscarrying) It is either wrong to kill a disabled child or it is not? Would you kill your 1 year old disabled child if you learned that he/she would die in two years? Would you kill this child to prevent their suffering? Or your suffering? If not why would you do this to a 5 month unborn baby? Why is it different… Read more »
Pro-life is a misnomer. Pro-life forces cause unbelievable suffering for women, LGBT, and anyone who isn’t Christian. Pro-choice folks are more committed to promoting human life than so-called Pro-lifers.
So how do you explain pro-lifers who are female, who belong to the LGBT community and/or who are non-Christians? And Christians who are pro-abortion?
“Pro-choice folks are more committed to promoting human life than so-called Pro-lifers.”
I think you meant to say “destroying”.
Let’s get one thing straight: I’m pro-choice, not pro-abortion. One of the things that really annoys me about anti-choicers like you, Jill, is the fact that they can’t get their science straight. Since science actually contradicts your points, I can kind of see why you’re relying on perpetuating these lies. To begin with, the majority of abortions occur during the first trimester and the preferred method is vacuum aspiration. It’s an incredibly safe method to perform abortions and having an abortion or even multiple abortions does not put future pregnancies at risk (http://www.annals.org/content/140/8/620.full). Also, the American Psychological Association (APA) has… Read more »
Shelley, Unless you spend and identical amount of time supporting the pro-life and pro-abortion positions, you’re not pro-choice. If the focus of your energies is to promote abortion, you’re pro-abortion. Why run from the term? What’s wrong with being pro-abortion? Your source that touts safe abortions is by two abortionists. Give me a break. David Grimes brags to have been aborting for 38 years (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/18/magazine/18abortion-t.html)> Mitchell Creinin is a late-term abortionist who testified in favor of partial-birth abortion (http://www.lifeissues.org/pba/april-5-2004.htm). Their abstract refers readers to the National Abortion Federation or Planned Parenthood for referrals. Dig a little deeper in your vain… Read more »
The fact that you point to a conspiracy of “pro-abortion ideologists [who] have infiltrated science to keep women from learning the truth about how abortion harms them” pretty much tells me how desperate you are when confronted with evidence that expressly contradicts the lies you and your anti-choice buddies spew. Some women grieve after an abortion. Others do not. It depends on the woman and the situation of her abortion. I am not denying women their right to grieve. I’m just pointing out that anti-choicer lies like “women who have abortions are more likely to commit suicide or have post-abortion… Read more »
@JillStanek You wrote “How awful of you to deny a woman the right to grieve her abortion.” THANK YOU so much for saying that. One of the worst bits of collateral damage caused by legal abortion and the “feminist” mindset, is the unacceptability of openly grieving fetal (or embryonic, etc.) death. I understand a little of what Mr. Gouveia and his wife experienced. I have never had an abortion and have always been pro-life, but I have experienced an unwanted pregnancy (I was unmarried, would have lost my job, etc.) that ended in miscarriage. Despite wanting desperately not to have… Read more »
First, to clarify, Robin misspeaks to say I think “it’s OK for people to kill doctors who perform abortions.” That is advocating murder, which I obviously do not. Meanwhile, by her support of abortion, Robin does. Second clarification, this one to Mary, I have indeed spoken with many post-abortive mothers who regret killing their handicapped babies. In my capacity as an RN who held a nonviable handicapped abortion survivor until he died, I have had opportunity for much interaction with this sad group of mothers. Third, there are physical reasons not to abort related to women’s health and safety. I… Read more »
To address Jill’s post: First, calling abortion providers murders that must be stopped is dangerous rhetoric. While you may not be calling on violence you are essentially loading a gun and handing it to a lunatic. Take some responsibility for the violence you incite. Second, maybe some women regret having an abortion. Most however do not. The psychological effects of abortion are less than post partum depression. Third – these physical reasons are laughable. When I gave birth to my daughter, I had to take pitocin to dilate my cervix (what you call “forcibly dilating). “Multiple surgical instruments” were inserted… Read more »
Tara, as to whether the killing of preborn children is murder or not, the answer is readily available by answering the question, When does human life begin? Science and medicine agree it begins at fertilization. Do you? If we agree on this basic biological premise, the second question is: Have preborn children committed a crime worthy of capital punishment? Based on definitions as we know them, is abortion capital punishment or premeditated murder? (BTW, do you support capital punishment of convicted killers and rapists?) Bottom line: It is appropriate to call abortion murder. You are advocating the negation of free… Read more »
By your definition of when life begins a massive number of adult women need to be charged with involuntary manslaughter (I think in the us that’s called 3rd degree murder) for having miscarriages.
Clearly that’s a ridiculous concept. The world is not black and white and a fertilized egg is not a baby. Claiming murder when it loses the potential to become one is based on the sumplistic thinking of religious dogma and nothing more.
Derek, do you seriously not know the difference between natural miscarriages and induced abortions?
I thought science was indeed black and white. Do you disagree with science that human life begins when human sperm meets human egg?
> Derek, do you seriously not know the difference between natural miscarriages and induced > abortions? Yep, do you understand the meaning of the word involuntary? You’re right it’s ridiculous to claim manslaughter for natural miscarriages — as ridiculous as claiming abortion is murder. The difference is that my claim does not incite idiots to kill people whereas yours does. And you know it, and yet you continue to do it. > I thought science was indeed black and white. Do you disagree with science that human life > begins when human sperm meets human egg? At grade school levels… Read more »
“Yep, do you understand the meaning of the word involuntary? You’re right it’s ridiculous to claim manslaughter for natural miscarriages — as ridiculous as claiming abortion is murder. The difference is that my claim does not incite idiots to kill people whereas yours does. And you know it, and yet you continue to do it.” You are being completely nonsensical. Abortion intentionally ends the life of an innocent human being. Therefore, it is murder. During a miscarriage, a woman does not kill her child- he/she dies naturally. And actually, your claim does “incite idiots to kill”. Abortionists have killed millions… Read more »
This only goes to show how important having a choice is.
Both options have emotional consequences that the families have to deal with. There is NO question about that.
Jill Stanek is a well known anti-abortion extremist. It is no surprise that she would weigh in on the side of the persecutors of this couple. I doubt that she has the experience she claims, of talking to many people who are sorry they aborted fetuses which were destined for stillbirth.
Take the time to read her bio. She worked at an abortion clinic. She knows firsthand. I feel very sorry for the Gouveia’s. But Jill Stanek is right on, they made a decision to kill their child.
No, she doesn’t have a point. She makes unsupported & anecdotal arguments, using “common sense” for things that there just aren’t studies to confirm. You want anecdotes? One of my friends died having her stillborn baby. There, there is one person who might regret it.
Well, first of all, it’s hard to attribute much credibility to the woman who believes that it’s OK for people to kill doctors who perform abortions. That said, I object to her use of the phrase “pro-abort support.” The outpouring of support that Aaron and his family have received in the past few days is not happening because people are saying “Yay! Go abort your baby! I’m pro-abort!” People are supporting them because they had to make a difficult and heartbreaking CHOICE, and thank goodness they were able to make that choice for themselves. Jill can give vague examples of… Read more »
Robin, They didn’t have to choose to kill their baby. Ten years ago my sister-in-law was told that she had less than 24 hours to live. She was in terrific pain, should she have been killed mercifully? Today she is fine.
The bottom line is that no one has the right to decide. Not the government, not a religion, not the parents. Let God decide.
Hey John, newsflash: not everyone believes in god.
And your sister was alive. This baby was not yet born. It’s not even apples and oranges, it’s apples and fire hydrants. But if she chose to end her own life, my answer is yes, I’m a believer in euthanasia.
Individuals should decide what they can and can’t do with their own bodies. Not some imaginary deity watching us from the clouds.
“Let God decide.” Oy…
No one is talking about imaginary deities in the clouds. They are talking about God. Incidentally, you don’t have to be Christian, or believe in God, to be opposed to violence.
What? Their baby was going to die anyway. The quote from the original article is “Our doctors told us there was zero chance for survival.” I don’t see why giving birth to a dead baby would make a difference.
As for regret about abortion, I don’t see how most people could have an abortion and not feel negative about it. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t the right choice for them.
Chris, your argument is ridiculous. We are ALL going to die anyway. Where do you draw the line to play God and decide when?
Nice way to be dismissive of someone’s opinion. The playing god argument doesn’t really hold up though. All kinds of people “play god” every single day — they have to. Medical professionals, first responders, aid workers, all make decisions about who lives and who dies. You make the decision about what is the most humane and appropriate course of action based on the facts as you understand them. Sometimes this may mean letting someone die (e.g. do not resuscitate), it may mean speeding up their death (a conversation regarding this is being held in many countries right now). It’s easy… Read more »
Derek,
I disagree with your assessment of John’s statement.
He is not being dismissive. He is making a cogent point.
If your reasoning for aborting babies is “they are going to die anyway,” then you might as well kill everyone else around you, go to the hospital and kill all the patients, all the auto collision victims in ithe Emergency Room, etc. After all, they are all going to die anyway.
William, I think your black-and-white view of this subject is “missing the point.” Chris, forgive me for putting words in your mouth, but what you seem to be pointing out is that the child had absolutely *nil* chance for life or viability. There was a considered medical assessment made, and even if the woman had given birth to the child, it *still* would be dead. This is several standard deviations of difference from, say, someone with a severed artery in an emergency room, who has a healthy chance of survival with medical intervention. This couple and their medical professionals chose… Read more »
So are pro-lifers who kill abortion doctors playing GOD? They are taking a human life. Or would you just say that they are doing the work of God, like God spoke to them.
It seems people like to choose and pick when it is convenient for them to align things with their beliefs even if they are inaccurate or unscientific.
What a bunch of nonsense!
We “prolifers” don’t kill abortion doctors.
There have been only a small handful of abortionists killed since Roe v Wade. Not all of them have been attributed to abortion opponents.
The overwhelming majority of abortion opponents have never killed an abortionist, and never will.
Abortionists, however, have slaughtered 50 million babies since Roe v Wade alone.
I’d say the lion’s share of violence and killiing rests in the hands of abortionists and their supporters who have oceans of blood on their hands.