What do you think of these role-reversed ads?
A friend of mine linked to this video with the caption:
Advertising companies spend 5 BILLION dollars a year to tell you how to think about the other gender and your own gender, so what would it look like if gender roles in advertising were reversed?
My initial thoughts:
- The reversed images were more interesting than I expected. I expected something along the lines of the role reversal for the “Avengers” poster, but I think because the ads weren’t cartoons they were provocative, and in a really good way. They made me stop and think about how my mind reacted to them.
- When you reverse the genders of certain conventions, you can see just how silly some of it looks and just how ingrained those conventions are in our society.
- The studies that were referenced are listed in the video’s description on YouTube.
What are your thoughts?
If you want to see more of this, check out a video of gender reversal at the gym (“Women Power-Lifting and Men Sipping Smoothies? Role Reversal at the Gym – Video“), and Joanna Schroeder and her husband switch clothing in a gender-bending experiment (“Switcheroo: A Confrontational Gender-Bending Experiment“).
Good post. I learn something new and challenging on sites I stumbleupon everyday.
It will always be helpful to read content from other authors and
practice something from their sites.
It was brave of these men to do this role reveral to try to show how absurd the sexual exploitation of women is but for it to be an actual role reversal in which men would be able to feel what women really go through on a daily basis, the men have to be perfect looking (sorry to these guys in the video), but all women in advertising are perfectly thin, with perfect skin – not one wrinkle, very large lips, large breasts and they never look above 30. This is a very large part of the problem. Imagine what… Read more »
I agree with jmundstuk. I’m just getting so sick of people blaming advertising for everything. You take a few ads that are overly sexual or silly, put some completely unrelated statistics between them, and try to come up with some crazy conspiracy theory claiming that all advertising campaigns’ main goal is to demean women and make them feel bad about themselves when really, advertising’s main goals is-and always has been-to sell products. When one advertising technique no longer works, they switch to something else. They pander to the people, because they want to sell to the people. Many of the… Read more »
@Jamie: I can understand your frustration,however, the idea that trillions of dollars are spent on ads world wide that don ‘t work is just ludicrous. For instance, the sneaker industry has created a never ending money stream because people will buy these products even if they don’t need them. Which is how contemporary ads work. The series of commercials that Micheal Jordan made for Nike transformed an industry. Prior to that one only bought sneakers of one actually needed a pair. Now they are accepted as status symbols. Maybe and that is one big maybe, ads don’t affect you. But… Read more »
No, I wasn’t trying to say ads are ineffective. I know that ads can definitely increase sales, which is why I’m planning on filming an ad for my new shoes line within the next month. I’ll be the first to admit that when I was younger I bought VitaminWater just because of their ads featuring my favorite singer, Kelly Clarkson, and I knew I was doing it just because I wanted to be like her. The only thing I disagree on is the intent behind the ad. I don’t believe it’s causing us to hate ourselves or be sexist, and… Read more »
Erin; I believe you are sincere in your desire for men and women to be more inclusive, but honestly, you are talking about white men and white women. Caring about someone’s issues means that you have taken the time to know them and their issues. I left GMP for awhile because people here don’t know my issues. Yes, I have been asked to write from a black perspective about issues And yes GMP has added more black male voices. However, these voices are redundant as there are feminists voices. It is a kind of blackface, and, for me is insulting.… Read more »
Ogwriter, I actually wrote a response to you a few days ago about your comments as a black man. It never got posted. I guess it was offensive but I didn’t think it was. I actually really appreciated your insights and your comments and can see the truth in them. I am not sure how we go about fixing that. Any suggestions on what we can do? There is a lot of unfairness and racism toward black men (and black women). I think that I have heard black women say how demeaned they feel in society because usually it’s lighter… Read more »
@Erin; Hi Erin. What’s to know? I mean, consider this; except for some physical differences that may appear to be significant, I am just like you, a human being. Fundamentally, we require the same things ;food shelter, stability, love etc., if we are to have an opportunity to be healthy.This is true for men and for women, no exceptions. Certainly, with regard to fostering deeper understanding among diverse groups, relationships become more complex so, more communication is needed. However, that depth of understanding isn’t necessary in order for simple fairness be given to someone. I have had only two white… Read more »
Ogwriter, I agree with you 100%. You are just like me. You are a human being, just as I am. We all require the fundemental needs you mapped out. And yes, this is true of men and women; as well as African-Americans, Indians, Latins, Asians, Whites, Christians, Jews, Hinduists, Homosexuals, hetersexuals, transsexuals, bisexuals and so on. And it seems like it should be easy but we are all operating against cultural differences and stereotypes we both project on others and even on ourselves. And sometimes we all need varying levels of food, shelter, stability and love. And sometimes we all… Read more »
@Erin: I trust you can appreciate why I don’t care much for feminist or feminism. As you said, in so many words, people are selfish(this includes feminists) and only go so far as looking at their own situation. So, Why should I give a fuck about what some white woman has to say about anything? If what we agree on is true then it just seems to me white feminists should first DO the work on themselves before they go around proselytizing, judging and POINTING FINGERS AT OTHERS; while pretending that they are leaders in fairness and equality. In light… Read more »
ogwriter …my friend, as usual you are spot on
Deanna, you’ve asked the question what would it look like if gender roles were reversed, but you only look at one gender. The questions you should ask is ‘what would it look life if media representations of women’s roles were reversed?’. I don’t object to the attempt to challenge the objectification of women, but women isn’t ‘gender’ and by treating them as if they were you try to render my sex invisible. Have you had a look at the roles that media prescribes to men? Even the roles in that video, which you assume are empowering for men, are actually… Read more »
Excellent points Adam. Thank you for that. As the mother of 2 teenaged daughters and one teenaged son I know that we are all struggling with the images we are presented with, male and female.
As it’s been pointed out , not just on this’Reversal ‘ video but on the other ones you had posted with it (they seem to have dissappered) all the women appear as buff gorgeous and in the one video, ridiculing men at the gym, in control. The men in the videos,well,not so much. (In fact, in the gym one, it looks like you hired the male cast of that TV show ‘The Big bang Theory’) Actually, I want to thank you for that one. My workouts were ‘losing their steam’ and I was in danger of backsliding. Watching those men… Read more »
I disagree that advertising tells us what to think and how to be. Advertising reflects how we think and amplifies it, agreed, but it is not a brain-washing machine. Further, it and mass media adjust to social changes by showing changing roles. Look at the number of gay or semi-gay characters in TV today; at the increased sexualization or objectification of the male body/male beauty when selling to women. The statistics raise a question: is violence against women increasing? Put another way, is the change in violence against women different from the change in all violence, in women on men… Read more »
This video has been doing the rounds on Facebook and it seems everyone has been hopping on the bandwagon about how insightful and clever it is. As a graduate from a university that had compulsory cultural studies, I can see this video DOES have some valid points about the representation of women in advertising. I think some of the ads shown are sexist and (what’s worse) not relevant or clever. But what I find disturbing about the video is how the author(s) take things out of context in a way that would make Michael Moore proud. Seriously, you’re going to… Read more »
Mmm I think I can see why you might find some of the text-based arguments in the video simplistic. In particular, some of the language that was used was fairly ambiguous (even potentially misleading) about the relationship between advertising and gender roles. Nonetheless, I think your dismissal of it is based on an interpretation of the underlying argument that is ultimately not the strongest form of the argument. In particular, in your response you seem to be assuming somehow that advertisements are being elevated to the singular source of all gender ideologies. The strong version of this claim would be… Read more »
It’s a good piece, but it would have been stronger if the men had been as “hot” as the women in the ads being lampooned. Doughy guys posing for perfume are not the same as waifish girls doing the same thing. At least put the twink in with the right product and the bear with his appropriate prop.
I worry less about ads than about articles, to be honest. There’s such an emphasis on impossible behavior and appearance, with non-advertising photos to illustrate, and I think it does more harm than clearly out-of-this-world scenarios featuring nearly alien-looking models.
Now, how about a video showing women who can’t change a diaper, can’t look after kids, can’t cook dinner, can’t shop, and can’t get dressed without asking a man if what they’re wearing “goes together?” In short, who can’t do anything but lift thing and grunt? Then we can have an honest talk about stereotypes in advertising, preferably without the interminable video montage and bad soundtrack.
Try media that shows women who can do it all. Can have amazing bodies, pop out a dozen kids, hold down a totally awesome professiona career while taking care of everybody else. Try media that is more interested in seeing goregous women like Paris Hilton and Kim Kradashian then highlighting women that have good hearts.
We all have our pressures Michael. Just because women aren’t depicted not being able to change a diaper doesn’t mean women aren’t also getting the short end of the stick.
To all of you: I have decided to withdraw from this website. GMP. I came here to understand men better and I have learned a lot. But the bullying I see of women that take part in debates on several threads here tells me this is not a place for me. Only 1-2% of the men here destroys for all the other men that are decent,open and wants a dialog. When somebody is bullied because she shares how she FEELS then I loose all respect and know it is better for me to find another online community for important discussions.… Read more »
Iben, this is a forum for men to discuss men’s issues, first and foremost. I suspect a number of men are very tired of having women tell them how they, as men, see/feel/believe/see/think. The fact is, if men on this page feel like pushing back against that, as long as they stay within the terms of service parameters, that’s more than their right. It’s propitious that you should say “someone is bullied because how she FEELS,” because one of the hallmarks of the GMP has been the unfortunate donnybrook that has occurred, time and time again, when men have expressed… Read more »
Hi Michael Rowe The first time I posted a comment on GMP I asked if I men wanted women to take part or not. I was told by men that they wanted women in the debate otherwise things would get “even worse.” I try understand what you say. And maybe men should have a debate site for men only to focus on their issues. Freedom of speech is a cornerstone in democratic societies. I Europe we have non stop debate a out Islam in Europe. We also have European militant antijihad movement that are as dangerous as ku klux klan.… Read more »
Iben, this is a site for men. Women should NOT come here n lecture men and TELL men what they think. Feel free to say “You feel like men think this” and use words to show it’s just a feeling and not an outright statement of fact and it will be all good. But I’m not going to sit by n let a woman tell men what they think because a woman is not a man and less even less authority to say what men think + not all men think the same. It’d be as dumb as me going… Read more »
Why does that have to be in *this* video about the way women are objectfified? I really don’t understand your thought mentality. Is making a video about how women are objectified in the media demeaning toward the ways men can be objectified by the media? How could it? Does the fact that men are sometimes protrayed as being stupid in the media deny the fact that women are dehumanized in the media? Again, how could it? Can they not both exist and should they not both be addressed in their own right without the other side always feeling the need… Read more »
Where are the videos like this about objectification of men??
Why don’t you make one? That’s what these people did. And then you can write a piece about it.
“Why don’t you make one? That’s what these people did. And then you can write a piece about it.”
Comments are un-nested, who was this too?
If to me then because I have very little money, very little health ability and no access. Not to mention a video about objectification should already exist in a world with 3billion men and hopefully over 5billion people that care for them.
I’m not sure it requires a lot of money. But I can understand your health making it difficult or impossible. I’m not sure how much “access” you would really need. I think anyone with an iphone and computer or who knows someone with an iphone or computer (or simply a computer camera) could make a movie. Whether information should exist already or not is irrevelant. American Indians should never have been slaughtered, we should have never had slaves, women should have always had the right to vote. There are a lot of shoulds in the world. Does that mean that… Read more »
I know they exist, but not on here, GMP. I’m also a lil nervous putting my face on it and getting trolled, had enough bullying in my life and videos of that type ted to get trolled a lot. I think the canadian groups for males (CAFE, etc) are discussing the issues and may make some though. Dunno if there is a male version of Miss Representation or Feminist Frequency.
I’ve dealt with a lot of trolls and bullies online myself. It can get you down. But you shouldn’t let them beat you down so that you don’t have a voice. There are always risks when we put ourselves out there. I’ve been called a lot of names, thought about poorly because I’ve shared my opinion on topics. I’ve also dealt with bullying in my real life. If I’ve learned anything about bullying, practicually no one hasn’t infact been bullied to varying degrees. I think I got to the point myself where I didn’t care if people agreed with me… Read more »
“So in this article about women’s objectification, lets talk about men. And in other articles about the issues men face, lets talk about men. That is obviously what most of the guys here want to talk about. So lets forget women entirely and focus on making life better *first* and *most* for men.” My guess is the disparity in articles, if say 95% of articles of objectification are about women then the male side is very under-represented and hence you get the whataboutthemen comments. I guarantee the same stuff would happen if it was mostly about men too. Trouble is… Read more »
Good point, Erin. For instance, I’ve often thought, on this very website, that it would be nice to read about men’s issues, especially the autobiographical ones written by men, “without the other side always feeling the need to say, ‘But, but, but…what about me, me, me!?'”
I don’t think that’s too much to ask ok a Men’s Site.
Except sports, but commercials are times for re-fills, pissc breaks, smoke breaks or lively talk
I TIVO, or whatever it’s called, everything I watch …. I could care less these days. I fast forward through commercials.
Someone else made this point, too, but notice how the men put into the original women’s role are not conventionally attractive men. Put a male model in suspenders licking a popsicle, and it’s a very different feeling. Put Channing Tatum nude next to a woman’s high heel, and it’s a very different advertisement. The fact that the video’s role reversals are so humorous is because the men are so clearly NOT conventionally attractive. That’s part of the shock value, because we have also come to expect exceptionally “beautiful” men to be male models. This suggests that in fact male images… Read more »
Someone else made this point, too, but notice how the men put into the original women’s role are not conventionally attractive men. When we thought of gender “reversal” for these advertisements, we thought it was going to be substituting highly conventially attractive men in place of the highly conventionally attractive women who are usually in such ads. However, the authors behind this concept apparently had a different kind of “reversal” in mind. Instead of substituting men who would usually be the attractive counterparts for model women, they substituted the kind of average, unremarkable men whom they imagined to be the… Read more »
Who is “we”? I had no preconceived ideal that the men used in the advertisments would be male models. To be honest, I responded to these ads way more with real men in them than a male model. I relate more to real men than male models.
I don’t think this was made as a way to punish average men. I think it was an attempt to get all us average folks to see the way women are targeted and marketed.
Who is “we”? The people who “notice how the men put into the original women’s role are not conventionally attractive men” as Wellokaythen pointed. I had no preconceived ideal that the men used in the advertisments would be male models. Well, other people did. The question in the title asked what if “the gender roles were reversed” in these advertisment tropes, so some people assumed that the gender roles would be reversed but the other factors and attributes would be controlled and constant. But it was not just the gender roles that were reversed and changed. The authors also lowered… Read more »
Just speculating here, and maybe reading too much into it, but this presentation seems to suggest men who are not really worthy of the women usually portrayed in advertisements. The women normally in these ads would be “out of their league.” So, part of the shock value or humor value to women seeing this video is how silly these men are to think they could ever interest a beautiful woman like, say, me the viewer. The subtext seems to be: “It’s a shame how many beautiful women there are in media images and how many ugly men there are in… Read more »
Yes, I agree.
A category of people that are considered deserving of punishment and humiliation are people who don’t “know their place.” The whole reason people watch shows like “American Idol” is to watch people with an overestimation of their own talent get denounced and humiliated. It is amusing and by and large, we think such people deserve the shame and scorn. And the same thing definitely goes for people whom we judge to have an inflated sense of their romantic appeal.
The chosen images are powerful, and the stats are alarming. The correlation between the stats and the ads, though, are largely unstated and assumed. If one thing increases over 20 years and another thing increases over 20 years, then one causes the other, right? Not necessarily. There’s probably some effect of perfume ads in fashion magazines on interpersonal violence, but is magazine advertising a primary culprit or just an easy target? I suspect it’s the latter, more than anyone wants to admit. In any event, a fair analytical question would be to ask what others things have happened in the… Read more »
Google it. You can see way more examples. They really aren’t hard to find. They are all over the place. And I actually agree that men get the short end of the stick when being protrayed as loving fathers or even loving husbands without having to be some bumbling idiot. I would love to see more protrayls of men as strong father and husband figures that uphold the respect of his family. Instead of movies like the Hangover that show a bunch of 30- 40 something guys acting liek frat boys and trying to keep their wild escapeds from their… Read more »
” “Well, I am a man and I love looking at beautliful women, that’s just my biology.” Which insinuates that it’s okay to treat women like meat as long as your are a man and your horny.” There’s a massive leap in logic between these two sentences. In between those two sentences are several flawed assumptions and probably some axes to grind. There is substantial difference between A) saying that a man likes to look at beautiful women and that has some biological basis and B) saying that women are simply pieces of meat. Yes, some men will use some… Read more »
Erin, I pretty much agree with most of what you say. I’m just tired of the old refrain ‘It’s all men’s fault!’ you speak as if objectification was a one way street(as does the video). Who do you think those Calvin Klein and David Bechkam underwater ads made the biggest stir amongest? What about a movie (Magic Mike)(that packs women in theaters wall to wall to watch Male Strippers ? (not to mention the real thing that sells out every show) You mention Playboy and Maxim magi ends. What about a magazine ( Playgirl) that sells almost 4 MILLION copies… Read more »
How large percentage of the 39% is lesbians looking at lesbian porn?
And how can lesbian porn show men degrading women?
I have never looked at lesbian porn,but surveys in my part of the world show that lesbian use the same amount of porn as men.
Also Erin, you’re somewhat behind the curve with the young-old coupling. Today it’s the other way around. And. No, I’m not just talking about famous couples (Demi&Ashton, Mariah Cary,42 and Nick Cannon,32), and not even just the 40,50, and 60 year old cougars you read about. My youngest is 21, and ever since he’s out of high school( and maybe even before) him and his friends have been dating women in their mid to late 20’s. The eighbor’s son was 18 when he moved in with his28 year old girlfriend. A guy I work with showed me a text meant… Read more »
The 16 year old and 24 year old woman is gross. The 18 year old and 28 year old isn’t ideal but at least he is legal.. barely though. To be honest, I don’t see why any 28 year old woman or man would date an 18 year old. Although this happens with WAY more regularity with men than it does with women. Your 21 year old son dating mid-late 20s women hardly even seems like something to mention. For how long have men been dating women significantly younger than that? Goodness. Please stop trying to make it sound like… Read more »
What I think about a movie like Magic Mike is the same thing in what I think about the book 50 Shades of Grey. Women have one semi-popuar movie or book in generations and all the sudden, everything is equal in the way men and women are portrayed. Except, I can’t get on board with that. I do think that the popularity of Magic Mike or 50 Shades of Grey can tell us about how we are seeing women’s own sexuality evolve. For better and for worse. But I don’t think that points to everything all the sudden being equally… Read more »
Erin, I suspect that you are missing the entire point. The reason the response isn’t just “Yeah, that’s not cool of Versace” is because the argument being made doesn’t stop at “This thing that Versace does is really uncool.” Instead, the argument goes “This thing that Versace does is really uncool because of the way it makes men think.” Believe it or not, men don’t like being told by people-who-are-not-men how they think. This is dehumanizing and a denial of the lived experience of men. Your own comments are littered with these types of generalizations. For example, you say: “I… Read more »
“This implies that you, a woman, know how men relate to Playboy. Upthread, Archy tried to explain to you that, as someone who is not a man, you might in fact be completely wrong in your understanding of how men relate to pornography. But you’re not concerned with this. You’re just going to charge ahead and tell men how men think, because you somehow know better than men.” +10000, yes, exactly. Sit down, listen to men, ASK them what they think. Don’t TELL THEM what they think. ASK why the men are looking at porn when they have a partner,… Read more »
Archy
Do you know when all this avalabity of porn online started?
I mean videos and films.
About 10-15 years ago with some pay sites, then the napster and filesharing revolution made it far easier to find videos. It wasn’t until like 2005 I think that videos started becoming far easier to find since more people had broadband and Macromedia/Adobe Flash video helped to increase popularity dramatically with online youtube-like sites. I remember for quite a while looking at pictures. Amateur porn took off hugely once digital cameras got cheaper, probably 2000 onwards? Cellphones with video n pics however about 2005 onwards saw a stupidenous increase in amateur content since more n more people we making their… Read more »
@Iben: I wasn’t laughing at white women, l though I must admit that from time to time I do. Lighten up! I was making a point about what you ask me to comment on. In your question was the hidden notion that white women couldn’t possibly stoop to sexually objectifying men of color. Let’s look at your admiration of Mr. Elba, who you claim is a beautiful man.. “How could you [possibly know if he is a beautiful man or if he’s a creep?” Unless you know him personally and have spent considerable time with him under a variety of… Read more »
Hi OGwriter I was not angry at you,but at all bullying that takes place in some of the debates on GMP. The question you raise is important and you are perfectly right. I am Scandinavian,so things are a little bit different here than in the US,but racism exists here as well unfortunately. But we do not have the same history as you in the US. I do not know whether Idris Elba is a good human being or not. I am NOT stupid. I am not a twelve year old girl that fall in love with movie stars or celebrity… Read more »
@Iben: I would not want to be a moderator simply because one cannot accurately deduce a person’s intent without seeing and hearing a person’s words. Without hearing tone, inflection and seeing facial expressions, we can only guess at the meaning. Nonetheless, It is a jungle out there. Erin knows, as I have often complained, the same women who complain so loudly about all of the slights they endure on this site and in the world,are guilty of benign exclusion, and probably worse. They don’t see men of color or the challenges they face and how those challenges are blinked to… Read more »
Mike, I think the problem is that we BOTH feel that our experiences as men or women are being denied unhealthy. I think you’ve denied my standpoint when you started this off with: “I suspect that you are missing the point”. Guess what? I don’t think I am missing the point. I actually think it’s a bit belitting on your end to infer that I’m the one that is missing it but it also infers that *you* are someone that gets it. Did you ever think that we both have a point? I can understand that you don’t like being… Read more »
I used the word “tirade” because I specifically expected a response with sentences like: “You find me lacking. I’m not perfect to you. You are clearly a more thought out and intelligent poster. I’m the problem and you are not. … I’m here to be sincere and honest about the issues I face. Not have a pissing contest with you about what a crappy human being you think I am while you obviously think your amazingly awesome and wonderful and I’m the one that needs to change while you believe you don’t.” This is openly insulting and unhelpful. It’s clear… Read more »
Mike, I came into this article with a lot of thoughtful responses and you came back at me with these comments: 1.“I suspect that you are missing the entire point.” 2.“I’m sure you’re going to respond to this comment with a tirade justifying why you think it’s okay for a woman to tell men how men think, but it’s not.” 3.“The sooner you realize this, the sooner we can stop talking past each other.” In the first point you are basically telling me that I don’t understand something that you apparently believe you do understand. In the second point, you… Read more »
Erin, At no time have I tried to tell you how you think. I predicted that you would use angry and abusive language, and in that I was correct. If you cannot understand how phrases like “pissing contest” are inherently insulting and unproductive, then I cannot help you. By contrast, you have, time and again, tried to tell me how I think. You started by telling me that, as a man, my response to this video should just be “Yeah, that’s not cool,” without considering why I might feel otherwise. I explained that I might feel otherwise because the video… Read more »
Beautifully put, Mike. Well said.
I don’t know how to communicate with you in an affective manner Mike. I’ve done the best I know how. If that isn’t good enough for you, I really don’t know what to tell you. I will say that I realize that I am FAR from a perfect person. I might not have these perfect, flawless posts, I might get a little passionate, my language might not be up to your standards; but I also don’t have ill intent in my heart. If you believe you are a far more articulate, understanding and knowledgeable poster than I am, God bless… Read more »
“You want to demonize me for that?” How is he demonizing you for that, he’s clearly saying you are TELLING MEN what they think, and not suggesting or asking. That’s the offensiveness, I really cannot understand why you are so intent on defending your ability to outright deny men’s agency in their own thoughts whilst implying Mike is denying yours? It’s extremely simple. Don’t tell people what they think, if you feel men think a certain way then say that but don’t state it as fact that men think X when you are just guessing even if it’s an informed… Read more »
Erin
We are many that love to hear your honest feelings and thoughts.
Thank you again Iben.
“…very popular with a good chunk of men,” is hardly the kind of knowledge one can base a thesis upon. Counterpoint: The Chippendale’s are a franchise, which means that male strippers for women is a world wide franchise with many other male stripper groups like the Thunder Down Under giving their all for the cause. Hell, I have had many white women and others sexually objectify me because I am a black man. Now there’s a conversation, how much do white women sexually objectify men of color? The honest truth is, as demonstrated by the evidence presented, human beings-men and… Read more »
Can you tell us more about this :”how much do white women sexually objectify men of color”.
Tell us about it.
As a fan of Idris Elba I am interested to learn more.
@Iben: Forgive me for laughing (you certainly must have heard me wherever you are) at the absurdity of your request. Not that I won’t provide you with my the benefit of my experiences, but that you made the request speaks to the chasm of misunderstanding that exist between men and women. Absurd because it is 2013 and we do so like to pride ourselves on how open and inclusive we are, only we are not.If we were this conversation would happened 100 years ago. Anyway… There is so much to cover it is hard to know where to begin. Since… Read more »
Hi OG writer
I cohabited with a man of color.
The love of my life was a man of color,and he is dead.
And smile and laugh all you want of white women .
Some of us are well educated even about Africa’s history and some of us have learned and listened to what our man have told us about their life.
Idris is born in an African country.
And he is a great actor and a beauful man.
“I can understand that you don’t like being told what you think as a man. But that doesn’t automatically deny the experiences of someone that has had certain experiences with other men. ” Um hello, you are not a man, you can’t tell men what they think, you can’t even say as a fact what 1 man thinks. Telling men what they think is wrong, saying in your experience you feel men say x y z IS fine. Your experience isn’t being denied because it’s logically impossible for you to state what men think because 1, men are not a… Read more »
Erin, since the issue is objectification and stereotyping, would you please also publish a list of the number of men playing mooks, criminals, sleazebags, murderers, abusers, and/or idiots? Clearly, since there’s no comparison, it should be a short list.
Michael, I’ll tell you what, If you want to write an article about how men are objectified in the media, I will post that list. Plus a list about all the hyper-masculine protrayls men get forced on them too. Because I TOTALLY agree that men get their own unfair protrayls. And I totally agree that is a neccesary conversation to have. I just don’t think it’s fair to have it under *this* subject. I don’t see how writing an aritlce about the objectification of women takes anything away from the fact that men face objectification too. And I understand this… Read more »
Erin, thanks for your thoughtful, gracious response. Here are some thoughts of my own, respectfully shared, in response to some of the points you raised: The media is full of magazines, websites, forums, television shows, and books that deal in nothing but “what women go through.” What there is precious little of is media dealing with “what men go through.” And even here, it seems, it’s almost impossible for men to discuss what they go through without women telling them what they think and feel, or why, or how. With regard to an article about how men are stereotyped and… Read more »
I am going to share with you what I agree with and what I disagree with and how I can see it from a differing perspective. I agree that there are many mediums women utilize that discuss a lot of the issues women most deal with in the modern world. A lot of these mediums are largely female-centric with a much bigger female audience and much smaller male-audience. Because they are much more largely female-centric, I guess it does not really satisfy the conversation i would like to have with men included in on the topic. I suspect a lot… Read more »
“You can sit around with another group of men and have some great conversations. But unless you make women a part of that conversation, we are never going to fully understand the way certain things affect you.” Do you comprehend why he is annoyed? Media SMOTHERS us with the woman’s perspective, he wants men to be able to have a perspective without women smothering it. When the majority of discourse is about women’s perspective, even on a men’s site, then there is a problem is his message. Women enjoy massive amounts of perspective highlighted in media, if there is a… Read more »
Hi Erin You write:”I know nothing about websites or how to run one but I would be interested in certainly creating a website like that. A place where men and women can come together where it’s not just about women and it’s not just about men; but where it’s about each other and giving each other face time and a place to be heard” CREATE A WEBSITE LIKE ERIN. DO IT NOW! I will come and take part in the discussions IF it is monitored. A website for dialogue not a ugly bar fight ! Let the monitor stop comments… Read more »
Erin
My English is not good enough.
I used the word monitor. It seems the correct word is moderator!
Thanks for the list. I hope I can just copy and paste that list into my Netflix queue….
O.K. , so here we have another video disparaging men(this is becoming somewhat the norm). The producers of this video say in the beginning that most of these ads are in ‘Womens’ magazines, am I correct? Well aren’t just about all of those types of magazines editorially controlled by women? (Anna Wintor etc.)
I think they said magazines in general. I’m confused why you would only think women’s magazines are the only issue. I think it’s fairly obvious women get it from both ends. There are obviously issues with the fashion industry and the depths it pushes to protray equally objectfying and degrading material of women. As there is with male entertainment and how it also pushes boundries in it’s protrayal of women. I can only tell you what I, as a woman would like to see. I would like to see more women stand up against standards fashion magazines set and pit… Read more »
Very very very very few men would rather porn or these images to a real woman. Most, at least 90% I’d say would rather be engaged with a real woman, some of those want porn sometimes when their partner is busy or not interested, some want both but I’d say the majority of men look at those images because they aren’t able to be with a partner, or their partner is busy at the time and they don’t wish to disturb them. The entire entertainment industry seems pretty set on fantasy over reality, because reality happens everywhere…if you want to… Read more »
No, not “very, very, very, very few men would rather porn or these images to a real woman”. Men are showing women everyday that they very, very, very, very much need pornography in their lives. I am sorry but the very second your partner isn’t available for sex, shouldn’t require a man having to go and run to porn. There is something very unhealthy about that mentality. When I am lonely and want a hug and my partner isn’t available the second I need it, I do not go and run to look for a temporary substitute. Secondly, I never… Read more »
“or that or their own partners out right ask them to perform acts that they have seen in porn movies”
“I am sorry but the very second your partner isn’t available for sex, shouldn’t require a man having to go and run to porn. There is something very unhealthy about that mentality. When I am lonely and want a hug and my partner isn’t available the second I need it, I do not go and run to look for a temporary substitute.” That is up to the couple to decide, not you. “No woman or man will most likely ask you to dress up or perform the tricks you have seen in iron men. Every day women are give millions… Read more »
“If I want realistic portraysl of porn, then I will spend time with real people.”
By making porn? or do you mean having real sex? Because that’s not a realistic portrayal of porn, that’s a realistic portrayal of SEX. They’re very different concepts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNlRoaFTHuE&sns=em
WOW!
Thank you Erin.
Thank you for your support Iben.
Took the words from my mouth Erin!!! Spot on!
Thanks Allyah!
interesting…
well…a couple thoughts on this: The dominant male and submissive female is a popular mutual sexual fantasy among men and women (eg shades of grey). It gets both genders attention and both gender linking sex with the whatever they’re selling. That doesn’t mean that exploiting and desensitizing the population to a fantasy that flirts with power and consent will not have fallout. Just saying that culpability for these ads is a gender neutral issue. The second things is, in their “reversal”, the authors are actually accessing an oft portrayed image of man as sexual dolt, object of ridicule and impotence.… Read more »
Cute in 73 or 74 I appeared in a film version, super8, of Othello where I, the only white cast member, played the Moor… I’m hoping it never surfaces…
To echo and drill a bit deeper into what some have already pointed out; there are cultural and biological “standards of beauty” at work in all of this. Is there anyone -male or female- who does not, as a general rule, honestly believe that the women depicted in these ads are “prettier” than the men? Are the situations depicted highly sexualized from a male POV? Yes, obviously. Is that bad? A case can certainly be made that it propagates unattainable standards of sexual attractiveness, leading men and women alike to feel inadequate. I will point out though that these are… Read more »
To help make my point: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=648427158508031&set=a.191912604159491.60881.191907457493339&type=1&theater
I don’t think the reversed-role ads seem ridiculous at all — they’re wonderful. Let’s see more!
Conspiciously absent from this analysis are all the ads where a man is shown to be an idiot compared to his wiffe/girlfriend (or pre-adolescent daughter)
I think in a lot of popular media parents in general our made to seem stupid compared to their pre-adolescent kids. largely because kids are an entirely new market that advertising love pandering to because of their disposable incomes. Kids love to see kids that get one over on the parents, male or female. You can see this in commericals or shows that totally exclude parental involvement and show kids living lives like they were running the show.
Archy and RMNZ already covered my thoughts in detail. I’m just chiming in to say “not surprised.”
Where are the ads that show the wife being the idiot?
Its funny she had to used fat and ugly men for the “objects” so she can show us how funny it is when the gender is reversed. Now use Channing Tatum or Ryan Gosling and the end result would be very different
John, I assume that the people that were used in the video were part of the school project this was made for. You’re right though, she probably could have put in a little bit more effort to match the physiques. Also, interesting point about Ryan Gosling and Channing Tatum.