This is a comment by John Anderson on the post “The Single Biggest Obstacle Facing Boys and Men Today“.
“I think if someone is using porn, erotica, romance novels, or whatever, to hide from others and avoid connecting, that can be a problem.”
“I’ve read about how excessive porn use can affect a guy’s ability to enter into a relationship with women. It gives him an unreasonable expectation of beauty and what to expect in the bedroom. When men got addicted after entering into a relationship, it negatively impacted their partners self esteem. One of the things I thought was interesting was that there was some suggestion that excessive masturbation resulted in men not able to orgasm PIV because guys had more control and could adjust the tightness of their grip, etc.
“That being said, I’ve always been hesitant about classifying an activity a person willingly engages in as bad when it doesn’t impact anyone else negatively. If a man chooses to engage in porn over a relationship with a real woman, why is that a problem? Porn use has broken up relationships and that’s the point, but no one is owed a relationship. The women weren’t required to stay in them. It may be personally damaging, but don’t we have the right to enter into such behaviors unless it reaches an extreme like suicide, then the state or society can step in.”
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I guess losing a relationship due to porn is a problem if the porn user feels its a problem. I mean, if he (or she) didn’t care about the relationship anyway, or feels that porn is more important than the relationship, no big deal, I suppose. I don’t think anyone is saying “society” should intervene as in making porn illegal or whatever. I see it as a personal issue. Every individual has to decide on their own priorities.
If a guy would rather have sex by himself than bother with a relationship, I think that’s really a favor to the women he would just frustrate. I’m sure most people have periods when they aren’t interested in being w/ a partner.
I think help for porn addiction should be available for men (and women), but I don’t see a problem if they choose not to go that route. I don’t think men, who choose porn over a relationship with a woman, is doing a women a favor. He’s doing what he wants, which is the point. I know that there is a tendency sometimes to examine men’s issues based on how they impact women. It’s not always helpful and sometimes confuses the issue.
Women do that all the time using toys, and are often proud of it – and get congratulated for it.
It’s an obvious misandristic double standard to demean men for doing something that women are congratulated for.
Yes. Exactly.
As someone passionately in favour of physician-assisted suicide being legally available, I have to say that I don’t think society should always be allowed to step in regarding suicide either. So long as the harm in restricted to consenting parties, I think there is always at least a question of whether or not society should even be allowed a voice in the decision.
I’m in favor of euthanasia. I thought about euthanasia, but even physician assisted suicide would be regulated. I would image a doctor would screen for depression and such to ensure a person was mentally capable of making that decision.
@yiab: I too am in favour of assisted suicide and have had that discussion many times. In fact it is the one topic (I think) I have actually convinced 2 different people to change their perspective on it. They went from being anti assisted suicide to being pro assisted suicide. How did I do it. I asked them a simple question
Would you feel different if only women died of horrible , painfull diseases and men died in their sleep on the 80th birthday?
That question really gave them pause to think about the “Her body , her choice” narrative as it applies to assisted suicide.
“Would you feel different if only women died of horrible , painfull diseases and men died in their sleep on the 80th birthday?”
I don’t want to sound mean, but I’m truly confused. I understand the idea behind bodily autonomy. Is the thinking that because men die younger, they aren’t dying of horrible, painful diseases or they linger for a shorter time? Was that an audience targeted message so I’m missing it? I was hoping you’d explain it.
“when it doesn’t impact anyone else negatively.”
You take a marital vow…that shoutd STILL mean something! “Forsaking all others…” and may I insert, “real or in your fantasies…” That sort of porn addiction, the kind that produces neglect and abandonment in a relationship, DOES negatively impact! It certainly negatively impacts the “victim” partner, and I believe if the porn addicted partner would be cmpletely honest, it negatively impacts 95% of them. They don’t feel good about their behavior and actions. Let’s get real… who would really PREFER a fantasy relationship with someone you view on a monitor or piece of paper, over someone who is willing to know, and be known by you? If there are such people, IMHO, they are in need of therapy.
“You take a marital vow…that shoutd STILL mean something!”
The divorce rate is around 50%. I’m not sure that holds true anymore. I think society has reached the conclusion that marriage is a voluntary association and when one person wants out they should be allowed out.
“”and may I insert, “real or in your fantasies…” That sort of porn addiction, the kind that produces neglect and abandonment in a relationship, DOES negatively impact! It certainly negatively impacts the “victim” partner,”
Does emotional cheating negatively impact the person not involved or are some forms of cheating OK because there is no actual sex involved? Is it the sex that is problematic? Under what conditions is marital rape allowable? If one partner doesn’t want to have sex with the other, why should they be forced to? Any negative impact on a partner is relegated to their emotions. Emotional distress is a valid reason to terminate a marriage, but I don’t think society would include it under the domestic violence law. There is a difference between actions that are wrong and actions that are simply undesirable.
“They don’t feel good about their behavior and actions. Let’s get real… who would really PREFER a fantasy relationship with someone you view on a monitor or piece of paper, over someone who is willing to know, and be known by you?”
Yet people make that decision. It’s hard to state that someone would prefer his partner, when that was the default position. Obviously, there would be something amiss in the relationship. I think help for porn addiction should be made available to people. I don’t see a problem with either spouse negotiating what they want in the bedroom and I would support the “victim” spouse insisting on marriage or porn addiction counseling as a condition of staying married, but ultimately everyone is entitled to make their own choices.
In extreme cases like suicide, I can see were the state should regulate a person’s choices at least to ensure that they are mentally and emotionally capable of making it and that there aren’t other viable options. The terminally ill should be allowed to kill themselves to end pain. A child being bullied should receive other help that doesn’t involve taking their lives.
“.. who would really PREFER a fantasy relationship ..”
Me. A fantasy cannot cause harm. A fantasy cannot exploit unequal legal and institutional protection for revenge or for personal gain.
Men and women do not have a shared future. “Relationships” have become too dangerous and costly for men. The disadvantages massively outweigh the advantages. More and more men are letting go of this pipe dream. More and more men are finding alternative ways to meet their needs for affection, intimacy, and connection.
Porn is for people who don’t want to risk rejection in real relationships. It is for people who choose self comfort instead of choosing to valuing people for who and they and not for what you can get out of them.
How may guys here who look at porn would like their daughters, nieces, mom or wives, involved in the porn industry. How many fathers hope when their daughters are young, hope they grow up and get paid to have sex? I hope its not too many.
Tim