Tom Matlack replies to commenters on his own post, “The Feminist I Used to Know“
I realize that post-modern (for lack of a better term) feminists and the MRA’s hate each other with tons of venom. The stuff said on both side quite frankly is not civil. It’s personal and ugly. I feel like I have dipped my toe into the wrong pond only to find it charged with electricity.
The MRA guys I frankly write off for the most part because at their most extreme they are just insane. I didn’t even know what the MRA was until I pissed them off and the SpearHead took aim at me.
But the feminists, well I consider myself a feminist. I take very seriously how my daughter and wife get treated by me, others, and the world. I have thought long and hard what it means to love fully. To be a good man, just for me, with regard to women.
So it’s much more difficult to take the level of personal attack, and frankly organized piling on, by so-called feminists. Sure it hurts. It hurts a lot. But that really doesn’t matter in the end. What it really leaves me asking is, “Where is all this personal bashing getting us?”
One of the things I asked in my original piece which caused the world to turn upside down is why it is that women want to talk about manhood so much more than men do? We see it right on GMP with our evangelists. The most insanely dedicated are for the most part women. Our CEO, as much as I love and adore and respect and don’t ever want to lose her, is a woman.
So we hit this divide. What is the point of what we are doing here on GMP? Is it to debate feminism? Is it to allow women to talk about their experiences with men? Is it to try to fight off the MRA? It is to have these vicious rounds of name calling in the name of gender?
That’s not where we started and not where I think we have the widest appeal. Sure it drives a lot of traffic from those interested in gender but not traffic from those who are more interested in how the heck to get through the day.
In the beginning this was about first person story-telling. Men telling their truth in a way that inspired and opened up the conversation to others. It was an attempt to find common ground among men, and women if they were interested in listening to men’s stories. When a man talks about losing his job or his wife or his child or his arm in war, feminism and MRA are no longer even part of the conversation. It is about hearing some guy talk about what remarkable, challenging, courageous, painful, joyous thing has happened in his life. It is about making men feel less alone. It’s about getting away from sports and porn and digging deep into the heart of the matter. Something for which I think many men yearn.
To my mind we have lost that thread more than we should. I don’t want to fight with those who call themselves feminists and then throw hand grenades at me. They have proven that they really aren’t interested in what I am interested in: men’s stories and goodness.
As I told Amanda [Marcotte] directly on email before her last round of vicious attacks on me, you all are way too organized for me to mount a one man campaign to try to prove you wrong. I am not a debater. That was never my aspiration. My aspiration was to sit in Sing Sing and listen to a man tell me what happened. That brings tears to my eyes and moves my soul.
Following is my 3part rambling monologue which details in explicit detail exactly the information (that I have to hand anyway, I’m sure there is much more) proving feminist activist organizations combat of fathers and men’s rights. I posted this in a different article back in April. Following are some of my wandering thoughts on why most of the fault of bad blood (between the two mentioned groups) lies with feminists. This is simply because the largest and most influential feminist organizations and the most active feminist members (i.e. those feminists most engaged and with clout to exert political will do… Read more »
Another issue in regards to fathers is forced acquiescence. Feminists were all over the concept of forced acceptance when the discussion was women dropping allegations of rape due to fear or shame. But, when it comes to father’s shared custody feminists put their fingers behind their back and cross them when they say that:”95% of fathers agree to the custody arrangement.” Feminists know full well, that any father contemplating fighting for shared custody likely has been told by his attorney that he may pay many dozen’s of thousands of dollars only to achieve less custody/visitation than the standard alternating weekends.… Read more »
If feminism is here to help men, then why did not one major feminist organization join as a signatory in the 1999 STOP PRISON RAPE NOW bill? If feminism is here to help men, then why did NOW have a closed door session with Obama to re-direct the stimulus? NOW stated that the stimulus shouldn’t be given to “sweaty men” and 41% of the stimulus (for “shovel ready jobs”) was instead given to female dominated fields in education and medicine which HADN’T been hit with the huge wave of layoffs that construction and manufacturing had? In other words, in the… Read more »
How long does it take to get a comment out of moderation? I have a comment with no profanity, no hyperbolic bs, and no web links which has been in moderation for 20 minutes.
The previous thread of Tom’s was a shouting fest. In my opinion this has two reasons. A) those women naming themselves feminists believe that there is still lots of work to be done fighting sexism against women. When told of men’s issues, a great many feminists believe that since feminists fight patriarchy and destructive gender roles if men and mra’s would just jump on the feminist bandwagon that the bullet point list mra’s carry would be taken care of. However, there is no proof that mainstream large feminist organizations have supported men fighting male gender roles in any substantive way.… Read more »
Neither a Feminist nor an MRA shall I be….
I support women’s rights to vote and be treated like human beings….
I support my right not to be shut out of a discussion because someone who has never walked a day in my shoes calls me “Privileged.”
And that’s where you and your views are incompatible with radical feminism. Hopefully, it will now be recognized that this site is too… and that it’s a GOOD thing.
I appreciate Tom’s intentions. I think a forum for men to share their stories–complete with their thoughts, ideas, and opinions–is a good one and can serve a valuable purpose. Many egalitarians and egalitarian feminists would agree. The problem is that this goal is fundamentally at odds with the purposes of radical feminism, which require a permanent focus on WOMEN’s issues, placing WOMEN squarely at the center of every discussion. And I don’t think that conflict is one that can be resolved through discussion or debate. You can’t set up a site devoted to cats and then spend all your time… Read more »
That was never my aspiration. My aspiration was to sit in Sing Sing and listen to a man tell me what happened. That brings tears to my eyes and moves my soul.
Youre a ‘soul man’ dude.
I was moved by the largeness of your heart.
Tom, both this comment piece and your article were noble and humane.
I’m a feminist and late to this party, thank goodness. My feminism is liberation theory, the idea that until we’re all free, no one is free. We can’t get there unless we get there together. I like the good-heartedness and nobility and healing focus of Mr. Matlack’s feminism. Is it perfect? Of course not. This is theory we’re talking about, people. But if the GMP is opening up a bigger space for men to be true to themselves and the ones they love, good. I want to hear those stories. Patriarchy isn’t doing any of us any favors, after all.… Read more »
Wow, call me simple-minded but I don’t understand what all the fuss is about. (And I’m only now getting up to speed on the “controversy” that has raged here on GMP recently.) (In fact, while I’m at it, what does MRA and some of the other acronyms here mean? Is it really “Man Bra?” What does that mean?) To my point, why can’t it be “both/and” rather than “either/or?” Why can’t feminists be outraged at all the lingering impacts of 5,000+ years of gender oppression AND recognize today is a different day post 30-40 years of dramatic social change? Why… Read more »
MRA is short for Men’s Right’s Activists, a faction of men who work to overcome discrimination against men (yes, it exists!), and whose existence is anathema to radical feminists. They are routinely disparaged and dismissed by radfems and those brainwashed into believing that “equality” means focusing solely on ways to help women.
“In the beginning this was about first person story-telling. Men telling their truth in a way that inspired and opened up the conversation to others. It was an attempt to find common ground among men, and women if they were interested in listening to men’s stories.”
Very simply, the above is why I come to this site.
If the conflict/drama level gets too high, I’ll visiting this site. I’ve all ready dealt withand made my peace with these issues and have no desire to revisit them.
excuse the error “…I’ll STOP visiting this site…”
Thanks!
Tom, I, too, am frustrated when personal attacks (I’ve never been called a “bigot” before! New experience for me!) but even more with dialogue and discussion that get us nowhere. It’s not that I am offended, but more that I see no forward movement, no real conversation. In addition, I completely understand your disillusionment, and the feeling that you lost track of GMP’s soul recently. If you choose to turn away from these dialogues, I wouldn’t blame you, nor would I think that a bad idea. I think the fundamental idea of sharing stories and finding common ground in the… Read more »
I think storytelling is great. I also think we need a space where the conversation about those stories continues. Stories need to be examined, interpreted, passed on, and I don’t want any of us to shy away from the work of social justice. That work is hard, it is. But that’s why it should be done.
Yeah you could have like all the dirt behind a members only screen maybe?
What are you talking about? That sentence isn’t clear. I like dirt behind a screen? I’m not calling for a new members only site to be created for discussion. I’m saying I’m in favor of the conversation happening here as it is. I’m not behind a screen.
Nikki, I expect it may have been me that called you a bigot. If I did then I was guilty of sloppy wording and I apologise. I don’t know you and you don’t know me. I have no business making personal judgments about you or anyone else that I don’t know well. But I do have business making judgments about the words you type here and the political opinions you express. So if I say anything which smacks of a personal attack I hope you are able to realise it is not meant personally. I am responding solely to the… Read more »
In the beginning this was about first person story-telling. Men telling their truth in a way that inspired and opened up the conversation to others. I think you should go back to that. Invite men to share their stories about losing their jobs or wife or children. Invite them to talk about their pain, their joy, and their triumphs. Ask men who contribute not to make the focus about politics, just their experiences. Ask your regular contributors not to play politics or try to shoot down men who experiences do not match what those contributors think men go through. I… Read more »
I agree with Mr. Matlack’s sentiments here. While it is good and regrettably necessary to respond to criticism (especially from high-visibility sources), it takes time and energy away from an important facet of what THIS site’s mission happens to be. Like it or not, Miss L, I don’t think its too much to ask that the Good Men Project be allowed to continue its Prime Directive unimpeded by an implied guilt trip you’ve made that’s apparently designed to make the GMP responsible for implied gender inequalities covering the length and breadth of human storytelling. You can’t make this joint responsible… Read more »
“In the beginning this was about first person story-telling. Men telling their truth in a way that inspired and opened up the conversation to others. It was an attempt to find common ground among men, and women if they were interested in listening to men’s stories. ” As an aside, the entire history of literature and storytelling is completely male-dominated. Stories get told from the male perspective all the time, and sure some of them might be fantastical and outrageous, but pick up any 20th century “classic” and you’ll find men crying, rejoicing, going about their day; pick up any… Read more »
Good heavens, L. It isn’t even noon. Strawmen in the morning? Really? Nowhere above did Mr. Matlack say that women were, or are, the “gatekeepers to the storytelling world.” What he said was that the GMP’s prime directive as a forum for men to tell first person stories about their lives has been hijacked of late, which—as you well know—is a fact. Let’s see if we can’t get him Twitter-flamed by three p.m. with accusations of accusing women of accusations of…of….of….ummmm…..uhhhh….accusing women of errrrr…..gatekeeping, shall we?
Odd – I’m reading “To Kill A Mocking Bird” Harper Lee, 1960, Pulitzer Prize – Classic of modern American literature.
I understand that there is much criticism of the book – but I always thought that the main Voice of the book was Female – and a child!
I think the innocence of the voice may be why so many like it, and how it articulates the experiences of a world created by supposed adults! P^)
That’s a new piece of victimry on me. Did you just make that up or where did you get it?
“To be a good man, just for me, with regard to women.”
Good here is interchangeable with gentle and real, depending on what era we are talking about.
I think that we need to move on from allowing women or women’s movement to define men by how they are taking care of women, women are not children, men are not their parents.
That position, the men’s movement position, is more reflective of what feminism is supposed to be about, as opposed to what it is about.
So you write off the entire mens movement because some of them are extreme, but call yourself a feminism even though the extremes of feminism far exceed those of the mrm and call for a male holocaust and other programs designed to wipe out the Y chromosome.
That’s not very consistent. its not a centrist position that reflects the reality of the debate.
EDT
“call yourself a feminist”
Well if you want to kick me off the site I’m 100% cool with that. I just ask that you do so politely and not in some underhand way — I hate that stuff. I don’t know why you’d even talk about “losing” Lisa; she’s beautiful. You’re so lucky to have her. There’s no men vs women issue here. The issue is between political views. Nobody wants the women out. digging deep into the heart of the matter Um.. actually it sounds like you want to avoid digging into the why of things if you want to go back to… Read more »
For Christ’s sake. If we could go 24 hours on this site without hearing the term “gender essentialism,” it would be an early Christmas present for everyone.
24 hours without the word gender – That would herald the Second Coming! P^)
“Gender essentialism” – This is the first time I’ve run across this phrase. It kind of smells of self-righteousness. No thanks.
Geez, man. I understand that it is hard, when your identity is rooted in certain things (i.e., being a feminist and a “good man”), to be challenged by people in ways that call those very things into question. And I can relate to the urge to respond to all of one’s critics when there seem to be very many of them, and to defend yourself when you feel attacked. But you need to stop here, because this is not making you look good. Look at some of the things that you have typed here: “I don’t want to fight with… Read more »
Dan It may be worth considering that as Tom has said “social justice was (and continues to be) the highest and most important calling in life” – and yet so many seem to believe they are Arbiters of what that Social Justice will be on GMP. It’s fascinating to see how One area of Social Justice is so Over Represented and so many others Under Represented – and even Dis-Represented, and all someone has to do is phrase a sentence the wrong way and they get Mis Represented. There is a lot of Representing going on there. Maybe some should… Read more »
Dan: You say Tom can’t be an arbiter of who is and isn’t a feminist, and then you write “Your critics — at least the ones I’ve read, like Marcotte (I’m sure someone has probably tweeted some over-the-line stuff), are mostly right here.” So Tom doesn’t get to say “so-called feminist” because that’s judgmental, but you have no problem as the arbiter of right and wrong?? You’re joking right? You say Tom isn’t doing the men on this site any favors. I say you’re wrong. I would have lost respect for Tom is he DIDN’T defend himself. Several of these… Read more »
AMEN.
So, uh, you stand by the gender essentialism of “men and women are just DIFFERENT” and “men get blamed for EVERYTHING” then, I take it.
I hope his answer is, “yeah.” The reason he caused such a stir is he came oh so close to stating the heresy, “boys will be boys.” If that happened, he might just see his way through all of the dogmatic aspects of feminism. Gender essentialism, privilege, mansplaining, toxic masculinity, Patriarchy. They are just words. They make a good story. They can be useful in interpreting the world in which we live. But, they may not be true and they may not even be the most accurate. But, at some level, what he said rang true to me. And, it… Read more »
Amen. I have found myself increasingly frustrated and frankly angered by the ‘isms, and labels.They require assumptions and unfortunately as humans, so passionate with our individual cadres of pain, and experience we may not allow as much open mindedness as may be required. People say they want equality then expect to be lifted above the rest to get it because of the unfairness of it all. It smacks of hypocrisy. For positive change in my life I had to listen. For me to listen, I had to hear stories told in a voice I can hear, not yelled at me… Read more »
Thanks. That means a lot MH.
Tom You are a guy with a big heart and as you have said “social justice was (and continues to be) the highest and most important calling in life”. It’s a calling for you, not something you take lightly. I wish others would treat that with respect. I have to say that the way some have responded has been “Gas Lighting”! Trying to convince you that you have no idea what you are doing – that you are wrong – and they should control you and GMP. You just be a light unto yourself and light the way for others,… Read more »