This is a comment by patrick “What Marriage Means to Me“.
Thanks for your thoughts on marriage and divorce. Although I do not agree with everything you write, it is good to hear the experience of someone who has gone down this road. I think you extend, and practice, the idea that marriage is about romantic love. Very much like the majority of Western society.
I’m very old-school in my belief; marriage is not and should not be about romantic love at all, but struggle. Marriage should be hard. It is cutting you out of wood, making you a better person. That process is painful. It goes against our very nature to be in romantic love with someone forever. We are not created this way. We can however love someone for life, as in, want the best for them always, to be truthful and honest and tolerant with another flawed human being as best as we can. This I know.
It saddens me your marriage ended, but it is good to see you are a forgiving person and you are being much more mature about the situation than many men before you and after you. Thanks again.
Photo credit: Flickr / chriswsn
About the Editors
Are the editors trolling the GMP commentariat by highlighting this comment?
I mean, it’s quite obvious from his recent comments that “patrick” likes to present very absolutist ideas without so much as a hint of nuance. This comment is of the same vein – defining what marriage should be without any allowances for the variety of human experience.
If “patrick” wants his marriage to be all about struggle then that’s fine – struggle away. I just hope he doesn’t have any legislative authority to try to impose his retrograde views on others.
I dislike his stance. All good things take both work AND play. Play gets us through the rough times. Joy is important.
“Play gets us through the rough times. Joy is important.”
Julie, I really like how you said that.
I actually think it’s kind of interesting. I’ve heard the “Divorce is bad, you broke your commitment” and the “I was in an unhealthy place, and so have other people I’ve known, so divorce is necessary” kind of thing. But I don’t think I’ve heard the perspective that he thinks that in the grand scheme of things it’s an exercise of making you both into stronger, better people. It’s a more complex argument than just “kids these days are all getting divorced!”
Now, do I agree with it? Not really. I realize the love for my husband that I have 2.5 years is not going to be the same as 10, 16, or 30 years in. But I do think that marriage, in it’s best form, should have a base in love (and by love, I mean a partnership and passion for the other person). I do, however, like Patrick’s idea that it’s not just about how you feel on a whim, but about being formed into a new and better person through that partnership (doesn’t mean I don’t think divorce is still necessary), and appreciate him not just boiling it down to “kids can’t keep a promise anymore!” which I feel like we hear a lot.
Married for 15 years, together for 25….I think marriage is whatever you make out of it…I’m not sure I would have put it exactly as Patrick did…but there is some truth to what he says about the struggles within a long marriage…My relationship has changed a lot from the time we started out as two wild grad students tangoing around each other and daring the other to come closer and become more enmeshed….
Now it’s more about getting our kid to his LEGO Robotics competitions and juggling our work schedules with family reunions and dinner parties with our friends…it’s also about supporting extended family members as they go through health crises and yet remembering to take good care of ourselves because we want two healthy parents to raise our son…I have sacrificed much for my husband and my family life over the years…How do you know that that cool, sexy 20- something year old guy on “The Booze Cruise” will be the one you are willing to risk everything for later on? My husband, for all his faults, makes me a better person….I have seen him sacrifice much of himself for other people and I do admire that deeply (even though sometimes I get mad if he does something selfish with his drunken friend down the block)….
I think marriage tests all your assumptions and preconceived notions about men and women and how they can relate….
I would agree with him if he had written, “marriage will include some struggle” but that’s not what he wrote.
He’s not saying that relationships change, there will be good times, and bad times, and struggles that help us grow. He’s explicitly saying marriage should not be about romantic love.
marriage is not and should not be about romantic love at all, but struggle (emphasis added)
It’s a prescriptive statement and there’s nothing in it that I can agree with.
Married for a decade this July.
Ironically, the thing my wife and agree on where relationships are concerned is that marriage SHOULD be easy. Not easy in the sense that there is no conflict and never any stress. But easy as it relates to looking forward to seeing your spouse every day; being glad to hear their voice on the phone; happy in the presence and type of partnership they offer your family. The difference between a healthy marriage and a damaged one (in my opinion) is: in a healthy marriage you hope to solve whatever conflict exists between you and return to your usual partnership as quickly as possible; in a damaged one, the conflicts become an excuse to remain apart (physically or through lack of communication) for as long as possible and avoid the normal state, which is habitually tense.
Well,
I’ll say this for the commentator. Historically he is correct. Marrying for love is a rather novel concept in the broad stroke of history. It wasn’t generally the norm and wasn’t the expectation it is today. Is it better or worse than it was before? I dunno. But it seems kinda ridiculour to me to end a perfectly good partnership merely because “I don’t love you anymore.” Are the dishes done? Kids cared for? House kept? Taxes paid? Sexual needs fulfilled? Life on a reasonably even keel? If yes, why get divorced? Because the grass is greener? Sounds kinda crazy to me, but then I’m not married.
The Wet One
Patrick thank you for your comment. I have to respectfully disagree that marriage “should” be anything. To say it “should” be hard and a struggle is very sad to my mind. Marriage is hard, it can and often is a struggle as are most things worth having and doing well in life.
As far as we know human beings are the only creatures in the entire universe who experience romantic love. Romantic love is a gift to our transcendence from conscienceless animal to a enlightened, creative, conscious beings who not only live life but who can with hard work and compassion make the world a better place. Love is a valuable tool to have for beings like us.
Too many confuse romantic love with a cure all for all of marriages ills. It is not a panacea but rather it should amplify the loveliest qualities of a marriage. Romantic love can make the sex more spiritual, the orgasms more powerful. Romantic love can help to achieve a better marriage bond. Romantic love can make two very compatible people much more willing to be effective in their relationship together but it cannot bind to people who are not compatible or who do not want to do the hard work be successful in their marriage.
The marriages we see that look so wonderful, that seem to be flawless, those marriages, behind the scenes can be full of struggle, full of pain and failure but the difference is the couples work very hard together to have a fantastic marriage.
Romantic love is beautiful it can make life together richer but it is not an antidote to hard work and the pain that usually comes with anything worth doing.
I don’t think marriage “should” be any one thing, or that is has a specific purse over and above what we ourselves make of it.
However, I agree that you be prepared for there to *also* be struggle, to rough periods and hard work. If you’re not prepared for that and not willing to put in the effort to work through, I think you’ll be missing out. The difficult patches of a long-term relationship can offer really great opportunities for personal growth.
Missing out on what, I wonder. It all seems like a gamble, doesn’t it? You do the hard work to through the rough periods, and for what? More rough periods? Perennial struggle? Or is it simply the promise of not being alone as we age? At what point do we throw in the towel and say, “you know, I tried, but I’m not willing to try any longer.”
I’m starting to sour on the idea of marriage being hard work, and perhaps that’s because I don’t hold the promise of “til’ death do us part” in any esteem. People change, discovering new interests and desires, and revealing parts of themselves that had heretofore been suppressed. People grow apart and our needs change, as does our ability (or willingness) to meet the other’s needs. Marriage seems to be this open-ended contract that binds our future-selves to the sentiments of our present-selves, all in complete (blissful?) ignorance of who we will become in the future.