These are comments by FlyingKal and Dan on the post “The Truth about Porn and Relationships“.
Dan said:
“Was she wrong to ‘withhold’ sex? What was her reasoning on this? It is not reasonable to withhold sex for no reason. The article never said what the reason was … “
FlyingKal responded:
“That is one of the main problems with this subject, isn’t it? You can’t have a discussion or an argument ‘in good faith’ about this, because most anyone, like in this article, will believe that any woman ‘withholding’ sex must by default have a perfectly good reason for it that is far beyond any discussion. Hence everything must always start at the ‘man being in the wrong’ position.”
Photo credit: Flickr / orphanjones
haha, if men witholding sex, most women always assumed that they :
1. Cheating
2. Addictied to Porn
3. Gay
Never women ask this , ” well maybe he just tired, maybe you dont treat him well, you dont make him feel like a men, bla bla bla ” like they always did when women witholding sex
Bullshit
That is an interesting meme – that withholding is presumed to be due to a wrong being done by the male partner. Along with the assumption of the “wrong”, there is the parallel assumption that a woman’s desire is selfless, for if there was no wrong, it would be given freely and often. It goes to the heart of the ethics of well-being and how it is assumed to be altruistic and more in the domain of the womanly essence. Mother nature.
Great point, Elissa. There is a parallel assumption at play here. Even if it did hold true that in every case, it’s assumed that the man did something wrong to not *get* sex, it assumes that sex is *all* for the man’s pleasure. That the woman gets nothing out of it and that sex is something she gives away for good behavior or, as you said, out of altruism.
We need to make a VERY important distinction here. First, “withholding sex” usually implies that someone is using sex as a commodity, to barter. IE “if he doesn’t let me go on that girls’ weekend to Palm Springs, I won’t have sex with him” or “I’m so mad at him for working late, I’m not going to have sex with him for a week!” THAT is withholding sex and it is absolutely wrong in all circumstances because it’s manipulation. Then there is an issue of a lack of desire on one partner that creates a disparity between the partners as… Read more »
A very important distinction here, I agree. In my experience, though, there are circumstances where this distinction may not be so clear. I don’t think these two things are always distinguishable from each other. She’s mad at him, so she doesn’t feel affectionate towards him, so she’s not interested in having sex with him, because he’s really ruined the mood, and if he’s disappointed, well too bad for him, maybe then she can finally get his attention, and if he wants to continue to have sex with me, then he needs to…. I know _I_ can be passive-aggressive about things… Read more »
I think that’s very insightful. Sex in monogamy is really challenging because you have no outside resources and your libidos have to match up. Most of the time people’s libidos don’t match up for whatever reasons, and not always on the side of women having less desire, and most couples just don’t have the skills to communicate about sex in a way that is healthy. I know a marriage where the husband lost all interest in his wife sexually, and she was beautiful, barely 40 years old. I mean beautiful, like a showstopper. But their marriage was horrible and he… Read more »
Joanna and wellokaythen, great comments. When I think of the word “withhold,” I think of it as purposeful and a punishment. Simply not being able to or comfortable with having sex or a certain sex act is a different animal. It’s also about perspective. What looks like one thing to one party can look like something else to the other. A woman who catches her husband looking at porn of 18 year olds or staring at other women denies him sex. In his eyes, she’s punishing him by withholding because he did something wrong. In her eyes, her self-esteem is… Read more »
“sex is NOT obligatory. Ever.”
But, then, nothing is ever truly obligatory. An accident victim can be brought into the ER bleeding to death and refuse a blood transfusion. Just don’t expect a good outcome.
Fidelity is not obligatory. Neither is common courtesy to the people in your day to day life. I’m not going to try to say whether any of these things are just in any sort of cosmic sense. Simply… going by what one could reasonably expect to happen, given their actions.
I apologize if that previous comment came across as mean-spirited. Only some one in a foul mood would be reading and commenting on these sorts of articles after 3 am.
@Joanna Schroeder: First: Wow, I’ve been selected “comment of the day”. My mind is blown! Second Thank you for answering 🙂 Third: Yes there is a very important distinction there. I agree about that. If you don’t think I can see that distinction, I can only advice you to go back and see the context of the article and where the particular answer was given. Four: Beyond that, I think its goofy to say that somehow a woman not wanting to have sex means her partner is doing something wrong and is at fault. I don’t know where that even… Read more »
Hi again, my answer for yesterday wasn’t the most thoughtful, I’m sorry for that but I was in kind of a hurry. Maybe I shouldn’t have answered at all at the time. But anyway. One example of what I’m talking is the article itself. “The truth about porn and relationships”. All we know is that the couple are not having sex, and that the man have “been caught” looking at porn. It is just assumed that the lack of sex is caused by him looking. But it seems at least to me that they weren’t having a lot of it… Read more »
I completely disagree with the reasoning. To arbitrarily decide that all individuals feel this way because of how you see the world is insane. Source?
Well given that men in general do not have the privilege of the Benefit Of Doubt …… what would you expect! I have grown tired of being called names because I act in good faith and give both men and women equal benefit of the doubt – until evidence shows otherwise. The emotional abuse and bullying around the man is always in the wrong and the woman is to be given the Privilege of Benefit of doubt is an old game that I don’t accept. It’s a rational position that protects against many forms of abuse and social manipulation. As… Read more »