This comment was on the post by Joanna Schroeder “Are Porn and Video Games Hurting Young Men?”
As someone who was most certainly addicted to video games and who is in the demographic that this pretty much targets, I have a number of insights.
#1. Involved parents. Parents can now let video games occupy their sons time and they don’t have to do any parenting. Give a boy a computer and a $15/mo World of Warcraft subscription and he’ll have an infinite amount of entertainment for $15. These games are addictive. I started playing MMORPGs in 5th grade and by the time high school rolled around, I was spending at least 30 hours a week playing MMOs and during the summer it was probably upwards of 60. I had no father and my mother couldn’t even be bothered to feed me, so I was able to do whatever I wanted, and what I wanted was to be able to avoid reality and feel like I was in control of something. MMOs gave me an outlet. It gave me an opportunity to be successful. I had a leadership role in one of the best guilds in a game of more than 10 million players. It felt good to be important.
Porn. I started watching porn at the age of 10. It’s been a daily and multiple times a day thing every day since that time. I think I’ve gone more than 4 days without watching porn once in my entire life. It is not inherently a problem, but it gives boys an outlet they would not otherwise have. Whether we admit it or not, boys (and men) are expected and required to do the lion’s share of approaching and initiating. In junior high and high school, your options are limited. If you strike out a bunch of times, you quickly lose any opportunity to get a date or a girlfriend and you quickly earn the label of socially awkward loser. I cannot begin to describe the pain and suffering that comes from serial rejection from women at such a young age.
How does a boy get confidence socially when he is perpetually rejected by women and that rejection is used as a tool to humiliate him by his peers? If you combine this with say, absentee parents who don’t regularly demonstrate affection towards their children, then you have a recipe for a child who feels they do not have any inherent self worth because they are being told by the world that they do not have any self worth. You can’t tell a teenage boy that the reason his parents and women and peers are rejecting him is a problem with them and not a problem with him. He won’t believe you.
He will have friends with whom he plays games, who are also having the same sort of social issues. It becomes a sort of band of brothers; a group of boys who have been rejected by the world who escape into video games where they can feel in control and good about themselves. Where they can have accomplishments.
We have a society that is truly, heinously brutal on boys. If they are deprived of early success, they choose a comforting and enjoyable escape that technology has provided them; video games and porn. I no longer play video games because I realized that it was an addiction that I couldn’t control. I cannot play games “casually.” The porn remains, of course, because I have no other outlet for sexual satisfaction. I, and probably every other boy/young man in my situation, long for a personal connection, affection, love, etc. To be honest, sex is not even secondary on my list. Hugging, cuddling, holding hands, and having someone who looks at me with caring and affection as opposed to indifference or disgust. That is what I want.
Unfortunately, I am a man. As a man, I must be the one to make it happen. I will need to approach women, ask women out, plan dates, pay for dates, and be the person who takes action. Otherwise, I will remain alone. How do you make this happen without self confidence? How do you have self confidence when you have experienced nothing but failure? I cannot answer either question, and it is a miserable catch-22 in which to find yourself. I have never in my entire life had a woman smile at me unprompted or approach me or say hello or ask me out on a date or anything. Not once. I’ve never been told I’m handsome, or sexy, or attractive, or been made to feel attractive and desirable. There are millions of boys and young men in this position.
So many people view porn as the cause of problems with relationships, but it is the result. Had I ever experienced at any point since I first asked a girl out in the 5th grade one who said, “Yes, I like you, I’ll go out with you,” I am fairly certain I would not be in the situation. Nothing succeeds like success, and nothing fails like failure. Confidence needs to start somewhere, and you need someone to help you start it. Without that, you have a continual downward spiral of declining self confidence, depression, and misery. I firmly believe that one of the biggest issues of the next decade will be overwhelming under participation in society of men and massive levels of suicide among millennial men.
Photo credit: Flickr / AngryJulieMonday
About the Editors
I would also like to add that society also is heinously brutal on video games as well.
Everyone still seems to react with fury against them, as if every single one is about brutal violence and “Call Of Duty” formula.
People forget there are videogames out there that tell a great story and develop characters you want to play as. But it seems nobody bothers to seek them out while visions of Grand Theft Auto IV Hooker Violence and First-Persons Shooter gore dance in their heads.
I’m a gamer and I play games mainly for the story. There were many that have been influential in my writing, believe it or not. Granted, Video Gaming has become to expensive for me and I don’t have much of the time to commit to a rigours gaming schedual so I mostly go for the casual games, yet I’m still a gamer and proud of it. I was raised on games myself, all the way back from the 80s onward. I remember the golden age of the adventure game with Sierra Games and Lucasarts. Those were the games I enjoyed when I wasn’t tearing my hair out and cheating with hint books. Still, I was involved in the characters and storylines.
It carries through to today. Think of The Metal Gear Solid Series, Heavy Rain, Silent Hill Series, Ico, Shadow Of The Collusus, Cave Story etc. These games stand out because they display a distinctive vision in their storytelling.
I hope that people who react with venemous criticism take the time to seek the games I listed out or at least do some research. Because, yes, there are games with cheap thrills to pump the alderanaline.
But existing far away from instant gratification are games with thrilling stories that leave with you an impression and make you think at the same time whose makers care deeply about the intracicies of a good story integrated with great gameplay. Those are the games you should be focusing on and I believe kids should share in that as well.
I agree. My husband is a big gamer, and he is pretty selective about the games he spends his time on. He could just play any ‘ol shooter, but if it doesn’t have a story line or some other valuable content, he doesn’t bother.
Some of the more prominent video games today have storylines that rival good novels and movies (Mass Effect 2 & 3, Bioshock 1 & 2, GTA even had some great stories). You get connected with the characters. I even end up in ethical conversations with my husband about the decision-making in the game, and I teared up in some points when the dialogue was particularly well-written.
I think video games are what you make it. I think people are in control of their impulses, so to blame video games is scapegoating. Kids playing every moment? They could probably stand for some time outside, but will it turn them into serial killers? Nope.
They are like any other kind of media. Consume in moderation, enjoy the artform, have a good time, bond with friends. And, you know, live your life.
Damn straight. I did a post a while back called “Why are people so childish about video games” (I think that was the title) that talked about this a bit.
Its classic example of people taking the worst of the punch and trying to pass it off as representation of the whole. The ability to kill prostitutes in GTA was a side bit that people got into (yes you can complete the entire game extras and all and never even interact with a prostitute, much less kill one). But with the way people were talking about it (including people who tried to use GTA to defend that game “Hey Baby” where the purpose of the game was to play as a woman that kills guy that make rude comments) you would think that Rockstar sat down with the intent of making a Prostitute Murder Simulator and threw in some cars and story to polish it up.
Honestly I would put some of today’s video game up against most of the movies that release today and even a lot of books. All you have to do for movies and books is sit and read/watch to get the whole story. In a video game you have to actually do the work.
Harry Potter’s final confrontation with Voldemort will always end the same way every time you read it. The Avengers will ways come out on top in the end every time you watch it. On the other hand Harry Mason won’t find out what happened to his daughter Cheryl after that car crash unless you muster up your courage and go into Silent Hill and find her yourself. Oh and there are five (I think its five, but I do know its more than 1) different ways your journey into that town will end.
I like the fact that there are plenty of games where you kill ONLY men, and lots of them, yet people lose their shit over the fact you can have sex with hookers in gta and kill them for the money back. I guess the mass murdering in other games isn’t that big of a deal compared to the death of 1 woman in these games….
That is inserting gender where it doesn’t belong, I think. The men you kill in most of these games are either other soldiers or gangsters or what-not. That doesn’t make it better, but it does mean they’re not civilians. The women that are killed/maimed are often civilians. This isn’t a gender thing, it’s a civilian/combatant thing. Also, often where everyone gets up in arms is when there’s anything to do with sex in a video game. Now most protagonists are male and straight, so anything to do with sex with involve having sex with a woman. Sexual violence will also almost always involve a woman. In these cases it’s the fact that there’s sex in a video game, and/or sexual violence that people go nuts about…not specifically that it’s involving a woman.
Where you could have a valid point about gender is how all the combatants are men (though not all the civilians are women). Making all the combatants men is often in part because the video game industry is very male-normalized. It’s also in part due to the attempt to make things “realistic,” and most combatants are men in modern times and in the historic wars often used for video games.
Umm…a lot of games have the death of male civilians, GTA, many RTS, soldier of fortune if I remember correctly. Even the fact that they are male combatants still sends a message that the life of males is worth less. So it shits me to see this big uproar over the death of a woman or child in a game when men are killed violently en mass to the point it’s normalized, and I see no one shouting out about it. I recall shooting quite a few non-combatant scientists, civilians, prisoners, etc in games (yes I am an evil bastah in games:P).
Well first, it totally depends on what games your talking about. Some games have women as non-combatants that you can still kill. Skyrim and Fallout, for example, you can kill absolutely everyone except the kids, and no one is freaking out about it. Secondly, as I pointed out, the uproar over the GTA prostitute thing was because it was sexual and violent. Our culture flips the heck out when we have anything sexual in media, particularly in video games.
Yeah I spose the sexual element increased the visibility. What a weird culture that cares more about sex than it does for violence :S
Although I had absolutely no expectation for this article I have to say it leaves me very disappointed. Truly regaled me with a tale of give-up and expectations for ‘mass levels of suicide’, wtf?! Move somewhere warm and get some outdoor hobbies. Join a legit yoga studio. Go to school for something interesting. Build things. Create something in your hands. Most important: volunteer your time to help people less fortunate than you – you’ll probably develop some kick-ass relationships in a place you never expected. It’s not about your parents anymore; it’s about the situations you either create – or you don’t.
I have to say I agree, and I’m very concerned for how men are portrayed by a comment like this.
I work with dozens of powerful, successful men on a regular basis. These are men who work hard to achieve their goals, and work to overcome obstacles put in their paths. These are men who understand that it’s never going to be easy, and there are people who will try and tear you down every step of the way. Yet they persevere and succeed.
Men are powerful, men are capable, and men succeed. I see this every day. The world may not be a perfect place, but let us not pretend it is so “heinously brutal” that none of us can overcome.
Mike L: “I have to say I agree, and I’m very concerned for how men are portrayed by a comment like this.”
Why are you concerned? There’s a ring of truth, regardless of how it comes out.
Think for a minute: When was the last time you saw a genuine, positive male role model in the media? Where he can say what he wants, do what he wants, have flaws yet doesn’t take any crap from anyone, much less the female protagonist?
How about a male role-model who isn’t a simpering buffoon and the butt of jokes?
What about when talking about the struggles that boys and men go through, especially when they’ve been abused by women and girls? Society still is reluctant, regardless of the exposure these issues are getting, to even broach it. Meanwhile, we’ve got alarms raised for women and girls who struggle.
And still, these guys are blamed for all the world’s ills: “Men start the wars”, “If women were in charge, the world wouldn’t be screwed up” etc. They break up with a woman, it’s “You obviously weren’t fulfilling her needs”. They get abused by a woman, it’s “You did something to make her that way” and “It’s self-defense”. Sexually assaulted by a woman. it’s “Lucky man”, “It’s not sexual abuse since you got a boner”, and the every popular “You’re an anomoly. Women have it worse. Stop acting so priveledged.”
Even guys who choose to have a hobby and a job rather than be society’s whipping boy, they’re classified as “Man Children”.
Men like me who hold in their hurt because there’s no place for it.
That’s a serious issue, Mike L.
Mike L: “Men are powerful, men are capable, and men succeed.”
Sounds like you’re using the stereotype of the “Successful Man” to color your views. Not all men are powerful or successful.
Mike L: “The world may not be a perfect place, but let us not pretend it is so “heinously brutal” that none of us can overcome.”
No, it’s not henously brutal. I agree. But there is a serious problem regarding men being heard and shouldering the majority of the blame for the way things are when it’s not warranted. If we don’t address that, then you’re going to see more comments like this whether you agree with them or not.
So, you think we should look into it?
Eagle, I have no idea what you’re talking about when you say:
“Think for a minute: When was the last time you saw a genuine, positive male role model in the media? Where he can say what he wants, do what he wants, have flaws yet doesn’t take any crap from anyone, much less the female protagonist?”
Last I checked “doesn’t take any crap from anyone” is not part of a positive role model. Being respectful of the views of others is.
I cannot give you examples of positive role models if your idea of “positive” is a disaster.
As for this:
“How about a male role-model who isn’t a simpering buffoon and the butt of jokes?”
It’s hard to believe you even consume media at all if you believe this honestly the way all men are portrayed. Looking at my own favorite TV shows, there are dozens of men who are shown to be successful, intelligent, articulate, and certainly not “the butt of jokes.”
Whether it’s my favorite fiction from the last few years I see dozens of capable non-buffoon role models: Booth from Bones, Bill Adama from Battlestar Galactica, Blomkvist from the Dragon Tattoo series, basically all the men on Private Practice, I could go on, but that probably suffices for now.
When I look at my own life, I have successful male professors and colleagues who have often encouraged and mentored me. I am happy to say that I have many role models from that set of men.
When I look at the news, men of both political parties are often presented as powerful, intelligent, and reasonable. Maybe George W. Bush was a fool, but Paul Ryan is not presented as such. Maybe Al Gore and John Kerry were cardboard cut-outs of people, but Barack Obama is eloquent and complex.
I just cannot fathom what world you live in where there are “no positive male role models in the media.”
I never said we shouldn’t talk about abuse of boys by women and girls, I suspect the next bit is a prolonged response to an argument you wish I had made, rather than one I actually did.
I also never said anything about blaming men for “the state of the world.” Again, I suspect you are replying to an argument that I did not actually make.
I would agree that men are not responsible for the state of the world; I never said otherwise.
What I take issue with is the depiction of men as UNIVERSALLY downtrodden. We are a resilient, capable, and intelligent bunch, regardless of what authors like Kate Bolick claim. When we present a view of men as weak and unable to succeed, we are playing into Ms. Bolick’s nasty and false stereotypes.
We need to celebrate the successes of men as much as we need to identify injustices. When we paint a picture (as the author of the original post did) of men as universally incapable, then we are doing a disservice to the best among us.
Finally, you write that “not all men are powerful and successful.” And that’s fine. But I would counter that not all men are sniveling and powerless. You need to acknowledge the latter.
How about a male role-model who isn’t a simpering buffoon and the butt of jokes?
Batman.
True he Batman doesn’t fill that role but he does manage to go in the other direction.
A cold and stoic obsessive that whose entire life centers around his professions.
Superman. He’s always optimistic in spite of what gets thrown at him. He also doesn’t believe violence is the end all be all to solving a situation.
“Men are powerful, men are capable, and men succeed.”
And, per definition, those that are not powerful, or are incapable, or are unsuccessful are not men.
This is a pretty obvious straw man.
If I wrote that “humans are resilient” am I suggesting that anyone who is not resilient is not human? No, of course not, because I was making a generalization about a group, rather than defining the group.
If I said “men, by definition, are x, y, and z” then you might have an argument, but I’m not going to support and argument that I didn’t make.
No actually its not a straw man. If Dan is trying to accuse you of making this assertion then I’ll agree he’s out of line.
However given the metrics that men are held to (that whole “real man” bit) I don’t think Dan’s observation is that far off course.
“However given the metrics that men are held to (that whole “real man” bit) I don’t think Dan’s observation is that far off course.”
Yet again, you are applying to me a “metric” that I never claimed to use.
Note that I never even defined the word “success.”
There’s a guy visiting San Francisco right now whose made the nightly news the past several days. His major claim to fame is that he built a spot-on scale model of the Golden Gate bridge in his backyard. In Kansas.
I would argue that is a very successful man. He knew what he (for whatever reason) wanted to do, and he accomplished it. I would further argue that we should all hope to be as driven and successful as he is. Success is about personal fulfillment, not about some made-up idea of a “real man.”
But you and Dan both rush to paint me in a color I don’t actually wear. I have never argued the point you want me to argue.
I’m not applying anything to you.
In fact I specifically said that if Dan was trying to apply it to you (or accuse you of making that assertion) then Dan is out of line.
I’m not telling you that you are trying to make that argument.
I have not said none can overcome, but I don’t think that everyone can overcome alone and some have fewer obstacles that start at an older age. We are not all the same.
“We are not all the same.”
No of course not, but your original comment makes it sound quite a bit like we are. Look at a statement like:
“We have a society that is truly, heinously brutal on boys. If they are deprived of early success, they choose a comforting and enjoyable escape that technology has provided them; video games and porn.”
This in no way qualifies “some” it makes generalizations about boys, as a whole, which are demonstrably untrue just by looking at the world around us.
I would also argue, though I don’t really want to get into it, that some of the views you hold (which I have seen expressed in past threads) may be creating the world you perceive. In other words, the world may only be as “brutal” as you make it out to be.
Regardless of your opinion, our childhood, our surroundings, and the way other people interact with us has a large impact on how we see ourselves and the world around us. To deny this is to be true would be crazy.
“The world may not be a perfect place, but let us not pretend it is so “heinously brutal” that none of us can overcome.”
I think his point is that the cards are heavily stacked against boys and young men such that if they do succeed its only because they did overcome but many boys and men don’t.
This is partially what I was saying, yes. People also have different amounts of obstacles that need to be overcome. I’ve overcome more obstacles than almost anyone has had to and at such a young age. If almost anyone else were to have been put through what I have gone through, they would almost certainly be dead. The deck IS stacked against boys, and an increasing large number retreat into games and other avenues as opposed to following through IRL.
It’s called ‘learned helplessness’. I agree that he could do something to change the situation but his whole upbringing says ‘no-ne likes you, escape into games’. I would say it’s his fault, but I guess that the effort needed to overcome his background is so immense that he just doesn’t do it.
Graham: “It’s called ‘learned helplessness’. I agree that he could do something to change the situation but his whole upbringing says ‘no-ne likes you, escape into games”
Basically it, yeah. You get told so many times by people who supposedly care about your well-being “Sorry, but you won’t amount to anything.” and “Your gender is the cause of every single problem for women.” Combine those together and you’ll understand why men like him give up and escape instead (or worse, actually agree and turn into the worst kind of self-loathing white knight you can imagine).
Imagine that’s the only exposure you’ve gotten, and those people are the only ones that were influential. Hell of a mountain to climb on your own if even society reinforces those belifes.
You can’t know the difficulty in overcoming something with which you have no experience. I guess because I’m a man I am just supposed to be able to deal with everything on my own no problem, right? Well, I haven’t done too terribly in that regard (I am moderately successful, I support myself, etc) but how do I get the other things? Who helps? Friends? Which ones? Family? I haven’t got one. Therapists? With what extra thousands of dollars? “Just doesn’t do it” makes it sound like I don’t put any effort into anything. I just sit around and feel sorry for myself and avoid putting any effort into anything. Every single day of my life is literally a life or death struggle. Get out of bed in the morning, go to work, function at work, deal with the litany of issues that spring up on any given day, etc.
“I would say it’s his fault… I meant to say I wouldn’t say it’s his fault…
Wow, I didn’t even see this thread, and I didn’t expect to be pilloried.
They want to call it “fear” of rejection, but maybe it is just a choice one makes not to be subjected to strange games and double standards. Is that fear, or is it just plain common sense?