This comment was by Bill, on the post “Our Schools Are Failing: Why We Need to Engage Boys Where They Are”
The question I would raise, though, with all due respect is why all children should be forced to participate in sports in the first place. Why is this necessary? Should all children be forced to play band instruments, take ballet lessons, or participate in games of chess; or isn’t this a matter of personal preference? The point is not to detract from anyone’s enjoyment of sport, but simply to not subject nonathletic students to pointless humiliation and bullying. The assumption seems to have been made for generations that participation in sports is absolutely vital for boys and that those who choose to not participate in them are somehow deficient. I respectfully but adamantly disagree.
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Yes, they should. And, yes, all kids should spend some time playing an instrument, and learning some dance, and playing chess, and reading books, and doing math. These experiences help children discover what they are actually good at and enjoy, instead of what their family likes, or assumes they’ll like, or social norms say they should like. This produces more well-rounded people with better understandings of the world.
I whole-heartedly agree. My folks made me play sports. I’d have much preferred not to. Playing sports helped me make friends, helped a skinny kid feel strong and confident, and eventually made me good at some sports. I wish they’d also made me learn to dance, learn an instrument and other things that are useful experiences. I feel like a parent’s job isn’t to be their kid’s friend, or their kid’s enabler–helping them do just what’s comfortable and interesting and avoid what’s not. Maybe it’s the sports speaking, but I think a parent should be much like a coach. Their job is to push and encourage. To make their kids do a bit more than they think they can.
I know I was as a child, and am as an adult, very good at avoiding things that make me uncomfortable or that I’m just not interested in. Sometimes it’s the right thing for me to do and sometimes not. As a kid I was lucky to have people to push me into areas where they thought I’d succeed. My folks pushing and encouragement led me to earn a college scholarship. Looking back at the choices I’d have made left to my own devices and what they made me do–I couldn’t have done that on my own. And they weren’t tyrants about it. It was just, take some classes you don’t care about because they’re prerequisites for college admission.
During the spring of my eighth-grade year in junior high, my parents started taking me to a clinical psychologist because I was being picked on at school and my grades had fallen. Unfortunately, the psychologist turned out to be abysmally incompetent. Despite the fact I had issues with coaches and athlete classmates because of the mandatory “sports only” P.E. I had had to endure for four years, he decided I should take judo lessons. (By the way, an expert in the martial arts with whom I recently corresponded by e-mail last year told me that judo is the wrong choice for slightly built boys. Tae kwon do or one of the others is to be preferred instead of judo.) The instructor whom the psychologist chose was a white former university football player, a man whose mindset was totally devoted to machismo. The coldest man I’ve ever met.
If the psychologist had been competent and had conducted a thorough evaluation of my case, he would have discovered that even though I had not had any interest in sports, I had very low body self-image. I was physically weak — which, in part, accounted for my lack of self-confidence. Instead of using a “one size fits all” approach, he should have sent me to a gym to work with a personal trainer on a bodybuilding program, which is what I finally started to do myself several years ago. What a novel concept! Discovering what the child’s needs actually are instead of forcing the child to do something just because the parent happens to like it. Incidentally, did mandatory P.E. classes provide instruction in bodybuilding or in any sort of exercise program? Of course, not. Despite the professed concern about students not being in shape.
I always felt like an outsider in Jake’s (not his real first name) dojo. I would eventually find out why. Meanwhile, I was amazed when I was promoted to brown belt. I knew perfectly well that I did not deserve that promotion. He did not have me take any sort of test to see if I qualified. I knew he was patronizing me.
During the spring of my junior year in high school, I decided that the charade had gone on long enough; so, I quit taking the judo lessons. I had expected my judo instructor to protest, but I never heard from him.
I paid him a visit at his home eight years later. On one or more occasions (I forget which), he shared some interesting views of his with me without any prompting from me. He declared, “Bill, I saved you from homosexuality.” Say what? I thought you couldn’t save anyone from something unless it was about to be imposed upon him against his will. For the record, I never had any desire to engage in homosexual intercourse; and I’ve been happily married for over 30 years and am the proud father of two children. He also said that only athletes and men in certain blue-collar professions were “real men.” Gee, what a tolerant fellow! He actually disparaged the Soviet physicist Andrei Sakharov, who publicly condemned the oppression of the Communist regime. I guess Jake couldn’t stand the thought that the one of those “pencil-necked geeks” might have a lot of courage, not to mention compassion (which he undoubtedly viewed as a “feminine” trait).
So, I finally found out why I had always felt like an outsider in Jake’s dojo. He had negatively stereotyped me from the first day we met. Since I was a shy boy who was physically weak, liked to read books, and had no interest in sports, I just had to be a sissy; right? I wonder if Jake has ever heard of David Kopay, Brian Sims, or Esera Tuaolo (not to mention others who won’t come out of the closet).
I recently came across a webpage on which a middle-aged man who had trained under Jake described his own experiences with him. (This man is also an expert in the martial arts, but is not the man to whom I referred above.) I felt vindicated by what I read, although I wasn’t the least bit surprised. He referred to Jake as a “demented bully.”
I could make more observations concerning school sports, but I won’t. Just writing about this jerk has already taken up more time than he deserves. I’ll just say I’m afraid that Jake’s “macho” attitudes aren’t exactly rare in the world of school sports.
Half-rounded, I’m glad you had a decent coach or two. Good for you. But whenever I hear of the supposed glories of sports (as opposed to those wimpy nerds), they fall on deaf ears.
Clearly I’m not needed here anymore. Thank you.
Yes, children (especially strong willed, gifted and special needs) need to be made to try everything.
Otherwise they will grow up not realizing their full potential.
Enough time to specialize after you grow up.
Teaching boys to enjoy reading longer stuff is hard work, I think it is because it’s harder to get them to concentrate on one thing for a long time. It is critically important both for their future and he country in general.
I was an exception cause I was a geek and nerd, but my addiction to reading (technical manuals to start) served me very well and I snagged high paying jobs without having a University Degree.
Time was, we needed boys to prepare to be soldiers. This meant not just getting them in a basic physical condition, but acclimating them to that same kind of humiliation and bullying that traditionally makes boys soldiers.
I have difficulty understanding how a man who apparently condones bullying in the schools could be considered to be a “good man.”
There is a world of difference between a bunch of recruits at a military base and a child seeking an education at a school.
I didn’t know that boot camp started in junior high school. My, that’s early! I had no idea …
To those who think every child should be subjected to playing sports regardless of their interest in it or not, I have a serious question:
What if that child wasn’t benefiting from it and is instead getting tormented?
When I was a kid, before PE class in elementary school, changing with the boys was the most uncomfortable experience in my life. Simply because they would always smirk at my body or convince me to show them my privates. Every time this happened, I prayed that when days came that they weren’t making my body a target for ridicule, it would grant me a modicum of peace. Those days were few and far between.
It got me so antsy, so anxious, that when high school came I would change in the bathrooms instead. Imagine the ridicule high school boys would be capable of if they ever zeroed in.
Still, I wasn’t interested in Phys Ed class. It was boring and unengaging.
Same with sports. While I did enjoy it on a basic level, I wasn’t much interested in the hard-core competitive aspect of it.
So let me ask, if this sort of thing were happenning to a child, would you push them to suck it up and continue on?
I’m all for giving them experiences, but there comes a point where if a child doesn’t want to do it and is very anxious about it (or isn’t beneifting from it) to just stop things and find something else.
It frightens the amount of people every child should be pushed into sports.
Edit: It frightens ME the amount of people that think every child should be pushed into sports.
They just don’t care, Eagle34. In fact, they are downright intolerant. They are also hypocritical when they claim they are concerned about kids who are out of shape or are obese. Actions speak louder than words. If they were truly concerned about these kids, they would be supporting programs (such as the innovative PE4Life program) that actually promote physical fitness. But they clearly are not. The well-being of nonathletic kids is not their concern. These people have made a religion out of sports. (Well, not all sports. Some sports clearly are more equal than others.) School sports have become a sacred cow. (Well, actually, they’ve been a sacred cow for decades.) Individual school athletes can get away with committing crimes because many of the sports fans are more concerned about their team winning than virtually anything else. Most of these people really have no problem with bullying. They say, “Bullying is just part of life,” “The victims of bullying bring it upon themselves,” “Blame the victim,” and “They just ought to suck it up.” They say that bullying is “character building” and “a rite of passage.” This is supposed to be good?
When my son was old enough we put him in T-Ball, he didn’t like it. We tried ice skating. I figured I played Ice Hockey as a kid, he might like it. He hated it.
A year and a half ago I took him to his first concert, Linkin Park. He loved the band and I told him if he wanted to we would get him guitar lessons if liked the show enough.
After the concert he asked me, “Daddy, when can I get my guitar lessons?” He’s been playing since April 2011. He’s a smaller kid and isn’t very coordinated, like his mom. Since he’s been playing I’ve asked him if he wants to try another sport, he looks at me over his nose and stares, like I do when someone asks a silly question. He tells me no, he likes his guitar.
I’m fine with my son not liking sports, he’s very good at the guitar and it’s something he enjoys.
I don’t believe kids should be forced into sports. Some kids just aren’t good at sports, my son is one of them. But he plays his guitar like Ronaldo dribbles a soccer ball.
That’s my point, Brian. And kudos for listening to your son, communicating with him about what he’s truly interested in and encouraging him to follow it. That’s what being a dad is all about. Natch, that’s what being a PARENT is all about.
Thank you for being a great father!
I may not have been clear.
Of course, I agree that parents should expose their children to a range of different activities. But the parents should be truly concerned with what is beneficial to their child and what his actual needs are, and not simply try to force their child into doing something that would only enable them to live through the child and expect their child to bring glory to them. The point I was trying to make was that expecting (or demanding) that all boys play sports is just as mindless as insisting that all boys should take ballet lessons (something, incidentally, in which I’ve never had an interest). Sports have long been abused as a phony test of masculinity, despite the fact that there have been extremely courageous men who never participated in sports. Incidentally, there have even been physically rugged men who never had an interest in sports.
Regarding the issue of mandatory P.E., I know what doesn’t work and what DOES work for nonathletic boys because I’ve experienced both in my life. The traditional mandatory “sports only” P.E. of my youth (which is still a reality in many school districts) has done nothing to encourage nonathletic boys to become physically active. They’ve often been taught by teachers and coaches who view them with either indifference or outright contempt. (See my former judo instructor above as an example.) In my P.E. classes there was hardly any instruction in the sports themselves! Next to none. None of my classes were taught how the game of baseball or football or basketball is played. We were never shown how to throw a baseball or a football or how to shoot a basketball. These are all physical skills that have to be taught and practiced. Sort of like learning how to type, I guess. In other words, they’re not innate. (If, say, a math teacher “taught” that way, he/she would be fired. But somehow P.E. was different.) And as I’ve already said, there were no exercise programs of any sort. I never even heard of exercise programs. So, nonathletic boys were forced to take a class that was designed to meet the needs of only the athletic students, a class that was (and is) totally useless to them. Incidents of physical bullying of the worst kind, including acts of physical assault, were condoned or covered up. And if that weren’t enough, the nonathletic boys didn’t get any exercise. This is still the reality in many school districts today. A sport is not an exercise program; a sport is a physical contest that is predicated upon the assumption that each participant has already attained a level of fitness or strength. In recent years there has been a movement to reform mandatory P.E. with genuine fitness programs (some of which even put demands on athletes!), but this movement seems to have not received much support because in our sports-crazed society sports must take precedence above virtually everything else. In mandatory “sports only” P.E. classes, nonathletic boys will not be encouraged to become physically active. To the contrary, they will be discouraged from doing so.
What DOES work for nonathletic boys is to get them into an exercise program that is appropriate to their needs. I get more exercise in a single workout session pumping iron at my health club than I ever did in a single year of mandatory P.E. “Sports only” P.E. should be retained as an elective for the athletic kids. If providing genuine fitness classes for nonathletic students supposedly is not feasible, then either send them to a health club; or leave them alone.
I believe that everyone SHOULD be required to take some kind of physical activity program, whatever form that may be. To me this is essential to building healthy communities, healthy bodies, and strong futures. I didn’t enjoy sports as a child and they were not emphasized in my family. As a result, I did not participate in sport or recreation and I am less than healthy as a result.
Bill, your PE teachers, parents, and psychologist did you a diservice. Just because YOUR experience was less than ideal, doesn’t mean that it is a bad idea. You had a bad experience. I agree. But there is so much to learn from sport and recreation participation that for my children, it is a requirement. They can sign up for anything, but they MUST do something active every year. I don’t care if it’s soccer or ballet, but they MUST be active. Yes, I want them to take lessons in art and musical instruments as well… that is MY Job as a parent… to expose them to everything and give them these opportunities.
If I may, I see the problem as the sports in-school as the problem. The religion of being either a champ of the school football team or a target for abuse just confounds me. In Finland, the most well educated country on the planet, there is no school sports, and therefore these “cliques” of abused and abusers are far less prominent. If there are going to be sports in our children’s lives they have got to be outside the schoolhouse, organized by the communities we live in.
That being said, physical education is still extremely important (we should promote it however we can) but It does not have to be sports. A simple 30-second sprint every morning is enough to keep a person in shape and can easily encouraged as routine in children of all ages, sizes, and body types. Encouraging our children to broaden their horizons is a good thing, but we don’t need to force them to.
I think physical fitness is important but should be about fun and not competition at least in the lower years of school. When they are looking at competitive sports it should be completely voluntary.
I have two kids and for me it is important that they do some form of physical activity but I don’t really mind what it is! I will let them try whatever they like and if it turns out to be a team sport then that is fine but if they choose dance, circus class, breakdancing, fencing or rockclimbing then any of those things is okay too – my rule is that if they chose something they have to commit to a term of it (unless something serious is wrong – bullying etc) and that each term they need to commit to something. If they also want to play dungeons and dragons then that’s fine too. For me it is important that they commit to a physical thing but also a creative thing(an instrument would be easiest as we are both musical but if they are totally unmusical then another type of creative expression – art, drama etc is just as fine). I think that it is kind of unhealthy to focus all your attention in one direction – you might regret it 10 or 20 years down the track and since we only live once, why not live in as many directions as we can?
I agree with what others have said, I think when you force a less athletic kid into sports then they will usually be bullied or suffer self esteem problems as a result – kids are mean – but I do think that there is something out there for everyone whether you find it when you are younger or older and it can be as much about developing self understanding as about physical fitness etc.
Of course, I do not think that kids should be forced to take sports…they should have a variety of activities to choose from (the more the better)…
Although I will say that being taught how to be a good volleyball player is very useful….we used to play co-ed volleyball and I was always jealous of the beautiful and athletic girls who could set, smack, and bump that ball over to the other side and win the point! Also, learning tennis in college was a turning point for me…after a few lessons, I learned how to volley the ball over and almost place it anywhere on the court (I was able to defeat my ex easily at tennis …and realized he didn’t know everything like he wanted me to think!)….
Confidence and skill goes a long way….once you master something, you realize there are several ways to defeat your opponent (and not only by the methods you are taught in class!)
With respect to sports in schools, I think part of the problem is that those in charge are generally in that position because they were good at sports themselves and are generally not trained teachers. I have heard of some brilliant exceptions, but we are talking here about the rule. A great sportsman is usually not a great PE teacher in the same way that a great mathematician is usually not a great math teacher – it comes naturally to them so they can’t relate or explain to those to whom it does not. I think keeping physical activity in schools is important, but it needs to be physical EDUCATION rather than sports. Educate on the importance of being active and healthy in general. Teach flexibility and strength training. In grade school, we didn’t have ‘sports’ class, we had ‘gym’ class. Encourage students to be active and choose a ‘sport’ that suits them, whether it is swimming, ballet (really good for co-ordination and strength, by the way) or a team sport. Team sports are great for school morale but can be accommodated as an extra-curricular, much like band. The whole locker room bullying issue still has to be addressed, though. Not sure how to fix that…
Compulsory PE or Sports ensures all children are given appropriate physical development opportunities. It is essential for lifelong HEALTH that children learn to enjoy exercise, whatever the type is they choose.
Chess or musical instruments aren’t going to keep people physically healthy, even though they are quality skills to be learning as well. They are simply part of a number of things that may be useful, but not essential skills in life.
Compulsory sports in P.E. classes do NOT ensure that nonathletic children “are given appropriate physical development opportunities.” Of course, “(i)t is essential for lifelong HEALTH that children learn to enjoy exercise, whatever the type is they choose.” Picture in your mind a scrawny boy or a fat boy who is constantly humiliated and bullied in a traditional mandatory P.E. that is centered around sports to the exclusion of any exercise program that would benefit him. Do you think he enjoys being bullied in P.E. (often on a daily basis)? Also ask yourself this question: Does a boy in such a P.E. class have any CHOICE as to the physical activity he can engage himself? The answer is NO. He has no choice. The fact of the matter is that traditional mandatory P.E. has shortchanged nonathletic boys and has DISCOURAGED them from becoming physically active. For generations nonathletic boys have been bullied in mandatory P.E., but no one has cared because most people care only about sports and view nonathletic students as undeserving of any attention. Nonathletic boys have always been the nonpersons, if not worse, in the world of school sports. No wonder I didn’t set foot in a health club until I was 57 years old! I had to learn that health clubs were NOT the exclusive property of jocks and were NOT like junior-high and high-school gyms! I know what I’m talking about because I’ve experienced both the misery of traditional mandatory boys’ P.E. and the joys of working out in a health club under the supervision of a personal trainer. The fact of the matter is that I got no exercise at all in P.E. However, I did learn to fear (and resent) coaches and athlete classmates.
The OP was a statement of mine that I had previously posted in another topic. I wasn’t speaking of whatever decisions parents make regarding their own children. I was speaking of mandatory P.E. There are good P.E. programs that actually provide fitness programs that benefit especially those students who are the most in need, but the traditional “sports only” P.E. is still a reality in way too many school districts. Such a P.E. class should be an ELECTIVE for those students who want to participate in sports. Genuine fitness programs should be provided for the nonathletic students who have no interest in sports. If the school district refuses to provide such programs, then the nonathletic students should be sent to health clubs or mercifully LEFT ALONE. I’m sick and tired of the pretense so many people make that they want all kids to be physically fit, but don’t support any humane programs that actually accomplish that goal. I’m sick and tired of the lie that forcing nonathletic boys to participate in sports encourages them to become physically active and to get into shape. The exact opposite happens almost every single time; but most people simply don’t care because they really don’t care about nonathletic kids. All they care about is school sports.