This is a comment by Danny on the post “These Chores Don’t Count? On Men’s Hidden ‘Second Shift’”.
Scott Behson originally said:
The big problem is that “definitive” studies like ATUS and PSID emphasize tasks that are typically performed more by women as “household chores”, while either minimizing or excluding more typical men’s chores.
Danny responded:
Much appreciation on bringing this up. I’ve gotten into discussions with plenty of women who actively dismiss things like yard work, maintenance on vehicles, and working on the home. Usually the argument is that such things are “enjoyable to men” or that they don’t do them very often or some other bull.
If that’s the case then how about an experiement where guys just stop doing that stuff. I mean since they just for fun they aren’t that necessary right? They aren’t vital tasks like laundry and cooking and cleaning inside the home? Let’s see how long the car lasts without hubby doing maintenance on it. How tall will the grass grow before it either becomes a neighborhood eyesore (and in some neighborhoods could be an actual ordinance violation) or becomes a home for wandering creatures (good luck seeing the snakes hiding in 3ft tall grass).
In other words those studies are starting off with a deck that is stacked to make it look like women do more housework from the get go?
I wonder if all those folks that go on about all that upaid labor that women do would be willing to extend the same courtesy the upaid work that men do as well?
It’s weird really.
When talking about labor there is certainly a history of women’s contributions being under-counted. But does it really stand to reason that the solution to making sure labor done by women is counted is to make sure the labor that men do is discounted in return? I’d like to think that if we really want to see how the labor division is going we have to see all the labor coming from both sides rather than starting from the conclusion that one side does more and then shaping the studies and research to fit that conclusion.
Photo credit: Flickr / osseous
About the Editors
Yes, we men do lot of unpaid chores.
While I do agree that “men’s” chores (yard work, maintenance- as you’ve described them) should be counted, I think the bigger issue with this is that even when you count those chores in the mix, they still don’t add up to the second shift most women work. Yard work is once, maybe twice a week. Maintenance or fixing of household items and vehicles, even less than that. And I can’t count the number of times I’ve had to fix something myself because my husband is too busy, but the toilet needs to be fixed NOW.
“Women’s” chores (cooking, cleaning, laundry) are every single freaking day chores. If I don’t mow the lawn for a couple of days, it looks scubby but we can deal. If I don’t cook dinner… likewise the cleaning and laundry. So while yes, those chores should be counted, it should also be taken into consideration how often those chores really come up in the daily round. And then count how often the wife actually ends up doing them because the husband is too busy. Fair is fair, right?
““Women’s” chores (cooking, cleaning, laundry) are every single freaking day chores. If I don’t mow the lawn for a couple of days, it looks scubby but we can deal. If I don’t cook dinner… likewise the cleaning and laundry. So while yes, those chores should be counted.”
You do laundry every day?
Once a week should be sufficient. twice tops. One full load involves 5 minutes of putting it in, starting it, putting it in the dryer, and then 15 minutes of folding and putting away. Time spent 20 minutes, plus 1 hour of wait time (and you only have to be there to put it in the dryer, you can go away after, it won’t explode). This is for 2 people. Make it for 4 people and you’ll spend 40 minutes and wait 2 hours. It’ll still only be done on one day, not 7, in a week.
Really well said Melonie… add kids to that mix and look at how much more time Mom’s spend on everyday stuff with kids…like homework, picking up and dropping off and sitting with kids at appointments, sports stuff the added stuff that some Dad’s do but lots don’t and in the early ages kids want Mommy… Not saying Dad’s don’t do unpaid stuff but not near as much as most woman… just sayin
@Melonie and Barbara: Did you read the survey this article was based on. They did time use surveys , IOW, people wrote down what they did, when they did it and how long it took. After they added up Paid Work and Unpaid Work, Women only do approx 1 hr a WEEK more than men. This article pointed out that most time use surveys don’t even count the stuff you ladies are talking about which means, guess what. The numbers are even closer than 1 hour per week. This second shift is actually a myth as show by this data.
I do not approve of such articles on this site.
By chance why do you not approve?
Most ‘surveys’ are in fact commishined by various groups promoting their agenda and are in fact slanted to arrive at this pre-conceived conclusion. Sort of a ‘statisicial backup’ to their ‘message’. Any ‘chores’ that would perhaps change the desired outcome are just eliminated, simple! Oh, just for the record, I cook dinner probably abot 60-70% of the time (I learned to cook dinner for my family when I was 12 years old) and I’ve been doing my own laundry since then also.
Hi All- I’m the author of the original article, upon which this “comment of the day” and subsequent discussion is based.
Melonie and Barbara make good points, but Aspire is correct. The way in which time-use surveys categorize chores means that many traditional men’s chores are excluded. While they tend to be more sporadic and less every day, I understand why they are harde to measure. I’m not ure if this is intentional bias or just an oversight by those who conduct these studies, but the end result is the same- some “men’s chores” are discounted, making the gap in doing housework seem larger than it is.
Further, they surveys find, when you combine paid work outside the home as well as the counted household chores, the difference is 1 hour per week. These numbers also don’t include commuting time, travel for work, etc., all of which tend to be longer for men, too.
Finally, about men andchildcare- according to a recent Boston Cllege survey among white-collar men, 75% of men reported spending 2.5 – 4 hours per day with their children. omen still do more, but the gap is not as wide as it once was.
We are making progress in making things more equitable between genders!
There may be a qualitative difference, as well.
I spent about an hour cutting wood this afternoon. Temp was about 18 F. But with a sweater and hoodie, i was comfortable. Used a chain saw and ax. Moved the wood from one place to another.
Two issues: The actual work, footpounds per second expended, is harder than most housework, of which I do a fair amount. Second, there is a slight but existing danger with such tools. Fingers, eyes, toes, etc. I don’t wear eye protection doing dishes or laundry.
I kind of enjoyed it, in the sense that I hadn’t done it for some time. Like the first month’s lawnmowing is kind of fun, but pales by August.