Ben Hughes wonders if there ought to be an App for “Misogynists Around Me.”
I have a knee-jerk defensive response to the term rape culture. It feels accusatory. It feels like the intent is to say that “all men are rapists”. I think I’ve had it all wrong.
Even living under my news rock it was hard to miss the controversy about Girls Around Me:
“It’s not, really, that we’re all horrified by what this app does, is it? […] It’s that we’re all horrified by how exposed these girls are, and how exposed services like Facebook and Foursquare let them be without their knowledge.” – Cult of Mac
Actually, that’s not what horrifies me. Some people are misogynistic creeps, and some of those creeps are app developers who will use data in unintended ways. That doesn’t make me happy, but it doesn’t particularly worry me. What horrifies me is that the focus on “women being exposed” perpetuates the predator/victim dynamic between men and women. It is victim blaming (don’t want to be hunted by sexual predators? Better not share your location!) and it takes as given that men are inherently dangerous.
Instead of the privacy of women’s location data, we should be talking about why that data being shared is “dangerous”. In our attempt to “protect” women I think we are unintentionally normalising and spreading the myth (please God, let it be a myth) that men are sex-obsessed beasts ruled by their cocks, who don’t much care who they fuck. That we are obsessed with impressing and obtaining women while simultaneously hating them. And of course that women and helpless victims who need saving (except when they’re treacherously plotting to steal our manhood).
I’m a guy trying to raise 3 boys into decent, humane men. I want them to grow up being conscious of how they treat other people, especially sexually, but without carrying the baggage of being “potential rapists”. I don’t want them to think of women as “potential victims” in any sense.
We teach boys that they are dangerous. We joke about men being ruled by their dicks. We normalise and excuse attitudes that are eerily similar to those held by rapists. We unquestionably accept that Girls Around Me will be used by leacherous men to hunt women.
This is rape culture. While I still despise the term, I don’t think I can dismiss the concept any more. And honestly, that makes me pretty sad.
Of course, all of this is from the perspective of a 30-something white guy. For a different (but I think complementary) perspective, check out Rosie Ryan’s post.
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Originally posted on Ben Hughe’s blog with the title ‘Misogynists Around Me‘
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photo: Cult of Mac via The Blaze
About Ben Hughes
I’m hoping that someone can look at how male victims of female sexual abuse aren’t believed or ostracized by society (that includes by men AND women by the way) and how this is also “Rape Culture” at work as well.
amazing. this entire article rightfully acknowledges the problem with male behavior and rape culture (in which the VAST MAJORITY of victims are female) and the only response you can think of is to cry about male victims of female abusers (who are the extreme minority).
when women think of an app called “boys around me” and start abusing males by the millions, then you might have a point. but that will never happen. we aren’t like that.
(edited) This is a perfect example of what the author is talking about. thanks for proving him correct. (edited)
(edited)
Moderator’s Note-do not make attacks on other posters, the author or the site, please.
Jackiesmith
This
“(in which the VAST MAJORITY of victims are female) and the only response you can think of is to cry about male victims of female abusers (who are the extreme minority).”
is total nonsense and a great example of how radical feminism is the real rape culture.
http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/gender-and-sexual-violence-manufacturing-victimhood-marginalizing-victims/
amazing. this entire article rightfully acknowledges the problem with male behavior and rape culture (in which the VAST MAJORITY of victims are female) and the only response you can think of is to cry about male victims of female abusers (who are the extreme minority).
when women think of an app called “boys around me” and start abusing males by the millions, then you might have a point. but that will never happen. we aren’t like that.
And you just proved Eoghan’s point.
Supposedly rape culture is about how ALL rape victims and how the way out culture seems to be conductive to their violation and extending that violation by robbing them of justice. Nothing in there about gender but when Eoghan spoke up about victims of female abusers you went straight to yelling about how “women have it worse” and then try to set a bar for victims of female abusers in order for them to count.
So how about this for a bar? When female victims are told that their stories don’t matter BECAUASE THEY ARE FEMALE (there are plenty who argue that only certain women deserve to be believed but few that actually say that a woman should not be believed because she is a woman) then maybe there will be due cause for concern.
And speaking of a “boys all around me” app. If I’m not mistaken the app in question actually allow for searching out boys as well didn’t?
Jackiesmith890, I would love to rebute your opinion in a civilized, polite manner but these two paragraphs here:
“amazing. this entire article rightfully acknowledges the problem with male behavior and rape culture (in which the VAST MAJORITY of victims are female) and the only response you can think of is to cry about male victims of female abusers (who are the extreme minority).”
“when women think of an app called “boys around me” and start abusing males by the millions, then you might have a point. but that will never happen. we aren’t like that. ”
Just proves you don’t deserve any common courtesy and have therefore revoked any chance of me treating you like a human being.
So I’m going to give it to you straight:
Those two paragraphs have also outed you as compliant for, and supportive of, boy and men sexual and physical abuse from females. You also, like many bigots, have erased my own experiences of being hurt as well by women and girls. Congratulations.
I have nothing more to say to you. You brought this on yourself.
“we aren’t like that.”
Zip up, your sexism is showing. You’ve just grouped all men into the “sexual predator” box and all women into the “pure as driven snow” box.
People who try to establish the moral superiority of womanhood are directly attacking a core assumption of feminism: that gender doesn’t determine a persons character and biology isn’t destiny. Your comment belongs right beside all those people you’ve ever heard claim that men are naturally more suited to the workplace.
Not to mention that you’re wrong, some of you are like that, just as some men are.
Unfortunately there is so precise definition of “rape culture”. But I think a big part of it is blurring the lines between consensual sex and non-consensual. Talking about what you and your lover want out of love-making prior to the actual lovemaking is not seen as very romantic. Men are supposed to dominate the women they want. Sometimes women will expect men to “just know” what they want. On girlsaskguys.com people discussed asking before you kiss, almost everyone was against asking. Some men believe that asking about sex will scare women off, even I get that feeling. I know consciously that it is the better option but feel to afraid to actually bring it up ever.
I find it unfortunate that in articles exploring specific examples in our culture of certain cultural factors (i.e a google app and “rape culture”) some people always respond “So and so can’t change people, a single so and so doesn’t mean anything!” Except it isn’t just so and so. There are lots of other things indicating the presence of rape culture. Maybe you’re lucky and never encountered any of the other examples, but more likely you heard of it, but never thought of it that way. I’m tempted to make a list of such examples for all of the cultural institutions I hate, though without substantial explanation for each entry they’ll be easy to dismiss or argue against. Also I’ve got math tests to worry about right now.
“Unfortunately there is so precise definition of “rape culture.”
Correct. It is whatever the person who believes in it says it is, no different than burglery or car jacking culture. That it exists in one person’s mind doesn’t mean it actually does exist.
However, I understand why it exists in the mind of many. Properly, they care about women, what happens to them matters. That’s the right way to feel, IMO. So they focus on it mentally and anything that reminds them of it is part of what they consider to be the culture. I get that. I am surrounded by ladies in my own family and care deeply for their safety and work to ensure it.
To illustrate that what we believe to be a “culture” is determined by what and WHO we do and don’t care about:
What if the murder rate of white women suddenly increased by 500% nationwide? What would the reaction be? There would be a sudden, dramatic, and urgent shift in attention and call to action. Activist groups would mobilze, press conferences would be called, 800#s, websites, blogs, congressional hearings, presidential speecheds, funding would allocated even with an insolvent government, increased police and judicial focus, declaratons of a war on women would be heard on the news daily, declarations by the same “rape culture” activists of a “war on women” and “murder of women culture.” It would be a national call to action to end this “culture.”
Why? Because of care. Concern. Appropriately so.
So, why is it that black boys and men are murdered at that 500% higher rate every day of every year and none of that takes place? Each and every day the response is silence and indifference.
I use this to illustrate how our impressions of events and what is a “culture” is determined by what and who we DO and DON’T care about. So, why the talk of rape culture so often but not muder of black boys’ culture, for example? Because of what and who we do and don’t care about.
If our society acted as if it cared, perhaps things would improve for these kids. It’s worth a shot.
Here is a paper on the legal objectives behind rape culture activism. http://www.ncfm.org/libraryfiles/Children/rape/greer.pdf
Oh dear, look at the source: ncfm.org?! If you want to be credible, find something that is less ideological and biased and even more important, find a source where the writers get their facts right. Those guys from ncfm.org seem to be so far out of touch with reality, it’s as if they live on different planet.
There are some true gems on the site
“Between the pill and abortion, women have complete control over the reproductive process.”
Sure. Pills, abortion. all freely available to anyone, everywhere at anytime. Wow. Talk about distorting facts.
or this
“the rights and freedoms of men have been downgraded to the point that they are now considered a second class citizen”
oh.my.god.
or another gem
“The unforeseen consequence that resulted is the breakup of the American family, and children who no longer receive the guidance and love of their fathers.”
That is language which implies that if women just stopped divorcing their men and the American family aka traditional roles aka man at work and woman at home would be honored, everything would be fine.
It’s all fine to point out that men are disadvantage when it comes to child custody and that we must do something about the large number of imprisoned men or create awareness that women abuse too. But ncfm.org is extremely dogmatic and sounds like a bunch of whiny, privileged men who can’t accept that they have competitor now who fight on an equal level instead of being nicely, quiet and subordinate; cooking their dinner at night, breeding their babies and looking up to their guidance.
I thought that the purpose of providing your location was for your friends to find you in case they were in the area you’d have a chance to meet up.
Friends already now where I live. I have no interest in having surprise visits with people I haven’t spoken to in years and who barely know me…
Ignorance sure is bliss.
I think every poster in the thread should spend a week in a courthouse and see how society (with its laws) treats rape and sexual assault and how it treats victims of other crimes such as common assault. I think you would be shocked. Get away from activist websites who claim “women are never believed” or “women are victimized again” , or the absolutely laughable one “women are blamed”. This isn’t reality folks, does it happen every once in a while , sure it does BUT the vast majority of rape and sexual assault cases are highly prosecuted , have some of the highest conviction rates and some of the longest sentence. Of course the MsM only reports those outside the norm.
Speaking of conviction rates: Did you know most activist websites and media outlets like to claim a 6% conviction rate for sexual assault and rape. I looked into that some time ago and found it where they came up with that number. I shocked me (though it shouldn’t have) that they use the actual conviction rate (approx 60%) and then divided it by 10 because of the belief that only 1 in 10 rapes is reported. Of course what they don’t tell you is that when the compare it to other crimes , they don’t make an assumption about how many of those other crimes don’t get reported. WOW, just WOW
You’re correct. In the real-world justice system, the presumption is overwhelmingly in favor of the accuser when it comes to rape crimes–or, as they are more often called, ‘the victim.’ Because anyone who files rape charges is a capital-V Victim and automatically deserves to be believed. And the accused is automatically a monster unless he (and in cases, it more often is a he) can prove otherwise.
Who cares that this runs counter to the core principle of our justice system, i.e., “innocent until proven guilty”? What matters is that alleged sex offenders be punished, and plaintiff-victims always be believed, whether they’re able to prove their case or not. It’s a sick system, especially compared to the neighboring violent-crime cases, which ARE generally handled in the “prove guilt” mode.
It’s almost like sex crimes warrant a reversal of the usual model of justice. I wonder what’s behind that, and whether the constant drumbeat of ‘rape culture, rape culture’ helps drive that unjust and immoral shift?
What I’m disturbed by is this quotes thing. No. I cannot tell the difference between the mag’s and rapist’s quotes. I know not all lad mags are like this (I wouldn’t say Playboy is), but to think there is a lad mag out there like this selling well enough to still remain on the shelves is harrowing.
“Instead of the privacy of women’s location data, we should be talking about why that data being shared is “dangerous”.”
Yes, but this question is going in the wrong direction. To my mind, there is an even bigger question. Why are so many people of ALL genders so cavalier about giving location information to the entire world? How could anyone NOT think of the security problems involved with giving social networks your location and a photo of yourself? Good grief. There doesn’t need to be any paranoia about insatiable male rapists. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.
It doesn’t matter how rare or how common male attackers are, ultimately. Even if rapists make up .01 percent of the male population, we’re talking about putting the information easily at the fingertips of billions of people. Billions. Rape culture could be a total myth. Burglary, stalking, and fraud are not myths.
App designers may have no nasty motives at all. They may not be motivated by any sexist assumptions whatsoever. That STILL doesn’t mean they have your best interests at heart. Think critically, people.
Let’s have an even bigger, even more important conversation about why we’re encouraged to tell the entire world everything about ourselves. Don’t be totally paranoid, but let’s not be totally gullible either.
Why would they ? Because most people are too lazy to read what they sign.
A few years ago there was a huge campaign about risks of posting sensitive information (like hey, I am rich and live here, we are going on a looong trip, our children are attending that elementary school and since they have only a 10 min walk back home nobody picks them up) and people still do things like this, no, it’s even worse !
I don’t know if number of burglaries or kidnappings for ransom increased, but giving away info about EVERYTHING, from your address to what you ate yesterday and with whom is cerainly making criminals’ lives easier.
So another social networking site, Badoo, launched in America last month (its been a big hit in Europe for a while now).
I don’t know the specifics on it yet (I went to the Badoo’s site and you pretty much can’t do or see anything without signing up or at least letting them look through your contact lists to see who among your contacts is already on it) but I just wonder if this will cause a similar stir.
“We unquestionably accept that Girls Around Me will be used by leacherous men to hunt women.”
Duh?
So who is using the app then? Doesn’t such an app, that allows you to search for girls in your area, reduce women to the state of being a commodity that can be looked up and is freely available?
This is like implying an app that searches for McDonalds around you is not used by people who like to eat burgers.
Don’t get me wrong, I also dislike that men are often portrayed as sexual predators who cannot control themselves but on the issue of this app, the author’s totally missed it by a hundred miles.
Does it have to mean they are a commodity though? Do dating sites turn people into commodities? I have serious issues with people labeling stuff so negatively like that, the app is questionable but why do you see it as turning women into a commodity? Did you ever consider it could just be to find and meet women, a lame attempt at dating in the 21st century?
Seeing everything so negatively simply adds to the culture that portrays men as sexual predators because their actions are so often seen as such. Take this app for example, some folk see it as part of the rape toolkit yet it could also be seen as a localized dating site. It has quite a bit of potential actually if it were opt-in with profiles, age range filtering, where you could see their profile and if you both agree turn on the “Bob is at bar 54″. Though it’s not really needed if you communicate via email/messaging first.
Anyway the app can be seen in a negative or positive light depending on what you think about it, I see it as questionable but not outright negative, even more questionable though is the title being a single gender. The other positive is that it might teach people to lock down their profiles more so they don’t share info without realizing. Better to be a silly app that tells the world vs some crime later on that people find out the attacker used public info to find the victims. It’d be good as a school safety app to let the students know to lock down their profile as well (with a different title/etc of course).
“Did you ever consider it could just be to find and meet women, a lame attempt at dating in the 21st century?”
No, not at all. That is probably the result that women are constantly portrayed as commodities, cause half naked, lucious, available women will sell any product. When I see this app, I do feel reduced to a commodity. One that, just like a restaurant, can be looked up and approached.
That I feel that way is the result of how I see myself (or women) being portrayed in the media.
If the app equally shows men and women, then I’d just brush it off as a dating tool and wouldn’t have a problem with it. Of if there is an app that is equally promoted calld “boys in my neighbourhood” I’d be fine with that.
An indeed, I hope this teaches people about putting all their information online and I also think to say it’s a rape toolkit is totally exagerated. That man prey the neighbourhood and drag random girls in the bushes is a myth, as far as I know and you’re more likely to be raped by someone you know.
Pretty sure this app searched for men as well, the women part was just a “catching title”. Wouldn’t be hard to search by gender from the data I’m sure. But I can see your point on the other stuff, probably why the app makes me wonder wtf they were thinking, something seems iffy about it.