A Married Man’s Sexual Epiphany

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Sexually frustrated men often claim that women hold the sex card. Life coach Steve Horsmon disagrees.

A friend excitedly told me today that he had an epiphany over the weekend…but he thought that was probably just her stage name. Sorry. That one has always cracked me up!

What’s an epiphany anyway? It’s a sudden realization. It’s a spontaneous understanding. It’s a BFO—A Blinding Flash of the Obvious!

Your transition from horny to happy is based in your transition from expecting things from your wife to expecting things from yourself.

So when a man has a sexual epiphany, he has finally pieced together the puzzle that reveals the truth about his path to passion—to more intimacy. The truth about his path to passion? I know. Sounds a little much, but bear with me for a minute.

♦◊♦

Since before we were born, we men have been aware of our emerging sexuality. Sonograms have proven that we become “in touch” with our pleasure points right from the start.

If you are like most men, and like me, a large part of your life has been spent thinking, wondering, and worrying about how those pleasure points will be satisfied. You likely imagined that the solution was ultimately in the control of others—specifically, women.

The sexual epiphany I am talking about is the point in a man’s life when thinking, wondering, and worrying changes into leading, romancing and enjoying. This epiphany does not just happen with age. It must be earned. It is simple but not easy. If it were easy, every guy would be doing it and would be happy with his sex life.

Your transition from horny to happy is based in your transition from expecting things from your wife to expecting things from yourself. This personal transformation is part of the journey which is full of surprises.

This change brings the brand new benefit of having more self-confidence, more self-respect, and more control over your emotions.

When you discover these feelings and learn how to consistently expect them of yourself, something else changes. I hear this from frustrated wives all the time.

Your sex appeal shoots through the roof!  You achieve the status of “sexy man”. Your wife sees you in a new attractive light which is the only light that allows her to see you this way.  In fact, many other women notice as well—wherever you are. You morph into that man other guys envy and women adore. And until now, you had no idea that it had everything to do with how you think about yourself.

What happened to you? You are no longer an unattractive, adolescent-minded guy whose emotional and physical satisfaction are controlled by others and what you can get from them. You have become a man who now knows his old sexual neediness came from a place of weakness. Your new strength is an aura of masculine confidence which allows you unapologetically to admit that you  want passion but clearly don’t need it. Now this is attractive!

♦◊♦

A man with a sexual epiphany accepts his role as leader of the “romance department” and the “good feelings department”. He is patient, loving, and giving as he shapes the new environment that he wants to live in. These are the values he now holds as important, and she loves them.

His epiphany is crystal clear. His first priority is to create and maintain an emotionally safe, trusting, and loving environment for himself and his wife. His second priority is to invite her to join him in building the powerful emotional and physical connection they have both always wanted.  All he needed was to finally get the order straight!

That’s right.  She wants exactly what he wants.  She just needs him to understand how she arrives there.

 

 

This article orginally appeared on GoodGuys2GreatMen

Photo by Tammy McGary

About Steve Horsmon

Steve Horsmon is a Certified Professional Life Coach and owner of Goodguys2Greatmen Relationship Coaching in Livermore, Colorado. He has appeared on local television, blog radio, telesummits, and podcasts all related to maintaining healthy relationships. Steve provides intensely personal, action oriented coaching services for men. He provides 1-on-1 coaching, private retreats and workshops designed to give men new knowledge, skills and mindset to achieve their relationship goals. He is a committed, lifelong mentor who teaches his clients to discover their masculine power, take bold action and create the life they want. He has written articles and guest blogs for numerous relationship and expert websites including his own blog. You can connect with him via  Facebook too.
and on his YouTube channel via YouTube

Comments

  1. Am I missing something? All I’m getting are abstractions or vague suggestions for attitudinal changes.

    “Your transition from horny to happy is based in your transition from expecting things from your wife to expecting things from yourself.” OK, what are they–those things you start expecting from yourself?

    “You likely imagined that the solution was ultimately in the control of others—specifically, women.” This seems to be a clue: Stop seeing women as the solution to your sexual satisfaction. OK, then what IS the solution?

    “The sexual epiphany I am talking about is the point in a man’s life when thinking, wondering, and worrying changes into leading, romancing and enjoying.” Cool! And, um, what would that look like?

    “This change brings the brand new benefit of having more self-confidence, more self-respect, and more control over your emotions.” Yay! Again….how?

    “When you discover these feelings and learn how to consistently expect them of yourself, something else changes. I hear this from frustrated wives all the time.” So I wonder how we guys are to “discover” these feelings?

    “What happened to you?” Dang! I wish I knew!

    “You are no longer an unattractive, adolescent-minded guy whose emotional and physical satisfaction are controlled by others and what you can get from them. You have become a man who now knows his old sexual neediness came from a place of weakness. Your new strength is an aura of masculine confidence which allows you unapologetically to admit that you want passion but clearly don’t need it. Now this is attractive!” OK, the results sound fantastic. But WHAT are they the results OF?

    OK, now maybe we’re getting to the point?
    “A man with a sexual epiphany accepts his role as leader of the ‘romance department’ and the ‘good feelings department’. He is patient, loving, and giving as he shapes the new environment that he wants to live in. These are the values he now holds as important, and she loves them.” OK, so if I’m understanding this, he should now be “patient, loving, and giving” and stop expecting sex. Hmm. Really? And maybe his wife should see herself as leader in the “sex department” and the “hot feelings” department. I don’t know. It just sounds suspiciously saintly and simplistic. And there’s more.

    “His first priority is to create and maintain an emotionally safe, trusting, and loving environment for himself and his wife.” By doing WHAT again? Oh yeah, be “patient, loving, and giving” and stop expecting sex.

    His second priority is to invite her to join him in building the powerful emotional and physical connection they have both always wanted. All he needed was to finally get the order straight!

    There actually seems to be a germ of real power and wisdom here, but for me it never sprouted. Can somebody explain?

    • A very late response to a very thoughtful comment. Sorry about that.

      Some of the cryptic writing in article like this are intended to create curiosity and potential clients. It’s a sales pitch with nuggets of quality content and wisdom. It can piss off a reader, I get it.

      The HOW do you do this answer is contained in much longer books, coaching, and training.

      I’ve created a lot of free stuff to help with the HOW on my website and YouTube channel.

      https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC13h36xaBvyTPVAES4-4rXw

      Even there we scratch the surface. As my last video explains, learning HOW involves a much deeper, vulnerable dive into men’s work with other men. That could be me or anyone else.

  2. I find this article as contradictory as it is one-sided. First, just as a man grows up when he identifies that his expectations of having to be served sex by his wife are childish, so too does a woman grow up when she stops ignoring a man’s need to experience intimacy as a physical reciprocation of touch and affection. There are two cups in a relationship, and rarely to you find one party is the culprit for not putting something worthwhile in them. Second, safety in a relationship is a shared responsibility, but if a man is shamed by his partner whenever he expresses lust, then this undetermined his emotionally safety too. Often men are treated in relationships as emotionally stunted, and as a result, men find they can’t win any which way. The idea that women have it all figured out and are just waiting for men to grow up is itself a form of man-hating, just as much as men expecting sex to be served just because ‘he wants it’ I’d a form of woman-hating.

  3. wallywood says:

    Husbands will always remember what their wife was like before (and just after) they married her.
    Women will often forget being attracted to their husbands, and only find the next guy attractive.
    It is cruel evolutionary trick, to mix genes.

  4. Thank you. Your insights are right on. Men should pay attention to this wisdom and will reap the benefits.

  5. Some good points. But there’s nothing on this site about Mixed Orientation Marriages, and that’s where I’m at. My wife came out to herself and me in May after 33 years of marriage. Honestly my first reaction was one of compassion for the immense suffering that has been hers, since when she was young, and first felt same sex attractions, that was unthinkable. Completely outside the realms of possibility. So she’s struggled with these feelings, endured several tormented friendships, and one very brief affair (sex but little love). I was and am shattered, but supportive. We’ve talked more than ever before. I think we were both in denial. A low-sex marriage has become a no-sex marriage. There’s no new close friend in sight for her, and she’s not looking, though I’ve told her that at least part of me wants her to know the joy of a totally giving sexual relationship. We are in therapy, together and separately.
    I would like to believe that young people today are freer to explore their sexuality; that they are less likely to repress their true orientations; and so that they are less likely to find themselves in the uncomfortable place that we are in!
    I’ve found VERY little help, support or advice for straight men married to lesbian wives trying to make a go of their marriage. My low sex-drive wife seems to have struggled against ‘wrong desires’ for so long that she’s succeeded in killing ALL desire. So I’m struggling with how to make love to a low/no desire lesbian wife. Or do we have to part, or only stay together with opening up our marriage to other partners (on one side or both)?
    We are both in a process of mourning. She is mourning the lesbian love that she never had (and never plans to have), and I’m mourning the loving exchange of desire that is the normal part of most marriages.

    • That is such a difficult situation. But I must say I respect you immensely for the thought and tenderness with which you approach it. Good luck and best wishes to you both, my friend.

    • Brassyhub, my heart goes out to you. But I don’t think there’s much hope of you ever having the marriage you (currently) want. I’m the child of a mixed-orientation marriage (father bi/gay, mother straight with low sex drive), and my parents absolutely loved each other and were both devoted to making the marriage work. My mother even consented to my father having extramarital affairs with men, although she grudged it. You know what? It didn’t really work. She wanted ultimately a husband who really desired HER and who didn’t need to live a double life. He wanted a wife and kids, but also exciting sex with the people he really desired, and he resented her sadness. I see that you’re not in precisely the same situation, but I’ve rarely seen a mixed-orientation marriage work (no matter how much they love each other), and the only time I’ve seen it happen, both spouses were more oriented towards polyamory than monogamy. Best of luck to you and to your wife.

  6. While it sounds sexy and attractive to not care and not want, I think that is not easy to do, especially in an exclusive relationship. I’m sure it would be easier to be indifferent about any woman, for a single guy who imagines other women are available, eventually.

    I think what makes modern marriage harder than a few generations ago is that men used to believe there were two kinds of women————-those who lust & enjoy lust and the marrying kind.

    Because almost every couple of this generation had romantic sex before marriage and in the early years of marriage, the modern husband knows his wife used to desire and enjoy him, but got over it.

  7. Exactly. When a man transitions from being a child / responder (to his parents) into a testosterone-based initiator of love, (even at times he thinks she might not deserve it), respect, cherish, caring, listening, working hard for the team, and other good character traits, his estrogen-based wife will respond in kind….and will be extremely sexually attracted to him.

    She will respond so well, in time (after he earns it), she will initiate, and love him back, even at times she might think he doesn’t deserve it.

    End result: Total mutuality, where the couple themselves can no longer tell who is initiating and who is responding, the back and forth flows so seamlessly (on net). Initiator / responder is only for male/female relationships, bonded by sex. Women initiate on their own just fine in the workplace, in academia, and as parents.

    Children of both genders are responders. Male children have not gone through puberty yet to become fully-testosterone-based yet. Embedded is a difficulty: Only males must transform from responders to initiators. Females remain responders. Perspective: Those who are gifted much, have greater responsibilities. For the great giftie of the penis, larger stature, and stronger musculature (in addition to most of the earning power still today as evidenced by things like only 18 of the Fortune 500 firms have female CEOs), men have the responsibility to lead in love and cherish. Studies show that those who feel loved and supported are more productive, in every way.

    Barrier to understanding and wholeness: The maturity it takes to endure the lag times while a husband is initiating. It takes more investment time than most men expect. That’s where coaching comes in – to help a man stay the course.

    Examining the flip side: If the wife is required to initiate too much (on net), then she’s de facto in the mother role, and her husband is in the child role. Over time, who can maintain the hot hornies for their de facto son? No one. (Or very few.)

    Then, because this axiom of initiator/responder is not known, her waning sexual attraction is blamed on her too. (Childish people blame shift instead of exploring how they may have contributed to a problem.)

    She even blames herself, often. Double and triple whammy. Marriage breaks apart….because the real causes have not been pinpointed, therefore real solutions can not be employed.

    Initiator / responder is extremely simple. However, it’s excruciatingly difficult to execute. (And that’s where support coaches come in.)

    The end result, total mutuality and teamwork with one’s life mate (and a hot, wonderful sex life…for life), is worth it…to those who believe in transcendent morality, which includes following through on promises (like wedding vows), especially when there’s children involved, watching and learning by example.

  8. ogwriter says:

    @Jules: I don’t care much that this kind of reverse onjectification happens,it is bound by hmun nature.I do it all the time.Its the fingerpointing they do that emanates from this place of moral superiority based on gender and race. They should clean up their frontyard before opening their mouths.

  9. Hank Vandenburgh says:

    I have a slightly different take. If the woman doesn’t like how you are now, yoiu shouldn’t be with her.

  10. Maybe we should stop thinking as a man or woman, but as a human,

    • Oh, thank God. Thank you for saying that. As a woman, I was starting to get miffed, reading everyone else telling me what I’m thinking as a woman. How about, ‘I’ll have a fulfilling sexual relationship with you if you meet me halfway as a human being, and just generally take into account my thoughts and feelings as said human being?’. Really, gentlemen, that’s what we want. Not mind games or power struggles. Otherwise, good luck on your nevetending quest for a fulfilling romance.

  11. You know… sometimes it seems from reading these comments that a lot of men have completely given up on the idea of even trying to be attractive to women. I can tell you that from what I’ve read here, and based on my experience with women, GG2GM’s advice (especially the eight bullet points he listed in the comments section) are spot on.
    Again, this is hard to describe to those not already in the know. It’s not called an “epiphany” for nothing. But you have to want and desire women enough to want to get up and do certain things every day – the things that women (in general if your single; your girlfriend or wife, if you’re not) find attractive. If you do that long enough (anywhere from a weeks to a few years, depending on where you start), eventually these attractive behaviors become habit. It no longer feels like work… it’s just part of who you are at that point. Somewhere between that initial start and the point where it becomes habit, your success with women will begin to skyrocket. I had a hard time believing this at first, and resisted it for years. But within two years of fully committing to these actions, I’ve reached a point where I very regularly have two to three girlfriends and a couple more FWBs at a time.
    Somewhere along the way the epiphany hit. I realized that my success with women had almost nothing to do with women, and everything to do with me. As long as I continued to do the behaviors that made me attractive to women in the first place, I no longer had to worry very much about whether or not any individual woman found me attractive. However; I still have down times. I still have bad things happen in my relationships and occasionally fall into dry spells of a few weeks or more. But I never let it “get” to me. I just keep on doing the same things that worked for me before, and before long someone bites and I’m right back in the game again.
    “Outcome dependence,” which is an idea that GG2GM is referring to here, is a bit of a misnomer when it comes to relationships. Yes, you still desire a specific outcome (either wanting to get laid or wanting to establish a long-term sexual relationship), but you don’t have any specific attachment to the other person’s behavior. You WANT them to be sexual with you, but if they choose not to (or will only do so under conditions that don’t suit you), then you know your best move is to pack your bags and carry on. The epiphany comes in recognizing the quality of your sex life is your own responsibility, and yours alone.

    • FlyingKal says:

      Is “outcome independence” another way of saying that women are only (or mostly) interested in having sex with men who aren’t really interested in having sex with them…?

      • Not really. Most women desperately want to have sex with guys that are interested in having sex with them. The kind who don’t are broken in a way that’s not even worth addressing in these comments. But women have to feel like there’s something more to you and to your relationship with her other than a desire to have sex.

        This is how I like to think about it: If I’m interested in a girl, invariably there is some desire to have sex with her. So I do have a desired outcome in mind. However, I’m not willing to have sex with her under terms that don’t suit my needs as well as hers. Its hard to say what those terms are, since it changes depending on the girl and how I’m feeling at any given moment. There have been times when I literally wouldn’t even get out of bed to hook up with a girl I was interested in; she had to be willing to come over, usually with drinks in hand, and climb into bed with me before I would initiate anything. To an outsider that might look like me being an a-hole, or a guy who’s not really all that interested in the girl… but it’s not like that. I like her, and I like the idea of having sex with her, but there are other things that I like even more than the idea of having sex with her. And having those other things are what frees me from dependence on a specific outcome.

        • FlyingKal says:

          Yeah, well, then I’ll just leave them to have sex with the men they are interested in. Thank you.

  12. ogwriter says:

    @Jules: You are so right. I think I have found a partner who fits that description. She said to me, ” You know if you fall in love with me, make me a promise, don’t tell me you love all the time! I only need to hear it once or twice a year,I will know by how you treat me.”
    I don’t have to jump through the usual hoops you and I are so familiar and have become so frustrated with. And, get this, she doesn’t believe in the romance nonsense! There are alternatives for men that are not being discussed on this thread that should be.

    • @ogwriter…

      “There are alternatives for men that are not being discussed on this thread that should be.”

      There are many. Men need to think outside the box, much like the PUA. However, I am NOT an advocate of the PUA methods and tactics (what little I know of them).

      Good luck with those finals Bro! Always great to hear from you. While we don’t always agree, I can honestly respect where you’re coming from on a lot of things.

      Cheers!!!

  13. ogwriter says:

    @Jules:Hey man! Oh yeah, one of my former athletes/men-tee,Damian Lillard was named NBA Rookie of the year. How cool is that! Hey man, check out the rapper who says he was raped on stage while performing, thread. I would love to get your opinion.

    • @ogwriter…

      I just read that piece. It has been 6 days and Mr. Reece has not responded to you post. I find that amazing!

      As you noted in your comment, white women really do think ALL men want them. They also have this attitude that ALL men of color desire them. I really cannot stand when a white woman approaches me and I know he sole motivation is because she sees me as novelty.

      The whole thing is just so twisted in my mind. How can you (a woman) want to have sex with a man just because of his race AND do not care enough about him as a human being to want to get to know him as a person? How can you allow a man to be inside of you AND not care about him enough to want to see him again, regardless of whether the sex was good or bad?

      Sorry, but I see this as a dehumanizing experience.

  14. ogwriter says:

    @Tom: Whats up? The relationship is going well and I can’t wait to tell about it. I have finals this week. I will hit you later. Peace, Angel

  15. ogwriter says:

    @John: The fact that only a few can love unconditionally is proof that it is a rarity among humans. Jesus tried what you say and he lived The entire history of the world has been shaped by war , slavery, pillage, etc. I get the whole positivity thing, but to be enlightened one be free from the known..

    You give people false hope which creates the kind of expectations you say are not good and need to be controlled. For instance, who says that anyone should have the right to be happy all of time? Once again this creates false unreasonable expectations setting people up for misery and depression. The idea that one should be entitled to have happiness all the time is elitist.

  16. This discussion can be looked at a few different ways. If I want something, it is in my best interest to do reasonable things (that aren’t compromising any part of my integrity) in an effort to get what I want. To paraphrase the author, acting in accordance with one’s values is never wasted effort, regardless of the outcome. In any endeavor where I need someone else’s involvement, be that at work or talking to customer service about a bill or whatever, I expect myself to respectfully and considerately pursue my interests. Why wouldn’t I apply that same process to my long-term relationship?

    I can think of a couple of reasons why I’d resist this bit of wisdom, actually, and which I’d have to overcome if my needs weren’t being met. If a man finds himself getting less sex than he wants, it’s probably also less sex than he used to get. With this very woman. It seems natural enough for a man to wonder why someone f’d his brains out back then with little apparent regard for conditions or neighbors overhearing or cops tapping on car windows, and yet now this same person needs him to perform trustworthiness for her. I know that’s a bit of a jaded read on the situation, but the thought might pester me.

    The other thought is that it’s not unreasonable to see this “men take the lead” as casting women as emotional children. Again, I’m not saying I necessarily feel that way, but this approach somewhat fits that unfortunate cultural theme.

    Finally, I get the sense, perhaps wrongly, that part of the author’s thesis and echoed in some of the comments is that a man sort of kills this deal from the start if he expresses his feelings. That if I fail to police my emotions sufficiently, and instead honestly and respectfully (not whining or nagging) say that I’m frustrated or hurt, when I’m frustrated or hurt, it’s a deal killer. That hardly seems like healthy communication or a relationship I’d care to enter into or preserve, so for me taking the lead would start with a clear expression of how I feel. If that kills the deal, then it will have been a merciful death.

    • FlyingKal says:

      Thank you Adrian, for an answer well written.

    • @Adrian…

      “Why wouldn’t I apply that same process to my long-term relationship?”

      Because the success rate is low! I spent over a decade in college earning a BA, MA, MS MPhil (Victoria University of Manchester). Why? Because I was passionate about the subject matter and I KNEW their would be a great payoff. Yes, to be successful you have to plan. You can do all this stuff the author suggest and it is often futile. More often than not it will be.

      However, what the author is suggesting is simply unacceptable (to me). Men and women must be responsible for their sexual happiness. If your partner or wife wants to be selfish….why do I need to kiss her ass for sex? You can always find an alternative.

      • @Jules,

        Kissing her ass (in the figurative sense) wouldn’t be consistent with my values. I would respectfully and considerately pursue my interests, and if my pursuits fail, I’d pursue elsewhere.

    • Adrian,
      You asked about how your own personal feelings fit into this, and I think it’s a good question. To be honest, from a purely seduction/attraction standpoint, sharing too much of your feelings too early in the relationship is generally a bad idea. People will argue with me all night and day on this, but in my experience, the more aloof and non-needy I am early in the relationship, the more likely it is the girl will stick around for the long-haul.
      However, once the relationship is established, I think you have to figure out for yourself where to draw the line in the sand. For example, I was out this weekend with a girl I’d been seeing off-and-on for a few months. All day long she’d been distant and slow to respond to my texts. I only texted her a couple of times over the course of the day, so I was a long way from engaging in anything remotely “needy.” Then, later that night, she texted me asking if I wanted to come hang with her and some of her friends at a bar. When I showed up, she continued to remain somewhat cold and distant. After 15 minutes or so, I said “to hell with it,” and told her I was leaving. On the way out I told her I thought her behavior was disrespectful, and asked her how she’d feel if she were in my shoes. Her response was equally disrespectful, so I turned around, walked out, and deleted her number from my phone. All of this was terrible from a seduction standpoint, but I’d honestly rather be single than put up with that kind of crap from a girl. I have to admit that I was bummed about the whole thing, especially since she was the hottest girl in my circle… but two days later a different girl invited me over for dinner, then cooked, cleaned, served me wine and helped with a couple loads of laundry, in addition to handling any other “needs.”
      The point I’m trying to make here is that you have to establish what level of behavior is acceptable from the people you’re involved with. If you accept crap from people, then that’s what they’re going to give you. Everyone I deal with knows EXACTLY where they stand with me at all times, and that any crap behavior will result in an immediate removal from my social circle. I sometimes wind up with far less friends and girlfriends as a result, but the relationships that remain tend to be exceedingly valuable and rewarding.

      • Tekoah Sunshine says:

        Maybe you don’t have a lot of girlfriends because you want them to cook, clean, and and do your laundry, and then meet your other “needs”. No thank you. This is 2013 not 1956.

  17. FlyingKal says:

    If a man truly doesn’t care about being attractive to others or having an active sex life, then why would he care about having a lover, girlfriend or wife/spouse to try and keep happy anyway?

    • wellokaythen says:

      Excellent question. It sounds like we’re supposed to be independent, not for our own sake but to please other people. Seems like if this really was about self-empowerment and self-fulfillment the author could also recommend getting a divorce or separation, since those are also ways to take time to find yourself.

      • I do…quite often… when a guy has worked his ass off and finally reaches the point of ultimatum. Totally different article…but you’re right.. A man who has done all he can do to improve himself and to meet her needs will need to move to the ultimatum step and give her a choice. In or out? Same applies to women.

        A man or woman who wants a healthy, happy, loving, respectful, and sexual marriage needs to consider other options when their partner continually chooses to act in ways opposite of those values. I believe, however, that giving an ultimatum should only come from a person who has truly done the required work on themselves to “deserve” better.

        Lots of people threaten to leave a relationship because their needs are not met while they have learned nothing about how to meet the needs of others.

        • FlyingKal says:

          Yet, in the article you say that a man should improve for himself. Not for a woman or any other person.
          So why should a man do all he can to meet the needs of another person, while at the same time expecting nothing (perhaps not even respect or decent treatment) in return?

          • Flying Kal, good question. In my last long-winded response on this thread, I’ll try to clarify. Short answer, he doesn’t!

            Caveat: This applies to a desire for a healthy, happy, loving, respectful, sexually passionate, COMMITTED relationship.

            1. The first reason a man should seek to improve himself is to align his deepest personal values and goals with his actions because HE wants to be that man. (easy example: the guy who decides he is the guy who ALWAYS puts his shopping cart in the cart corral, not just laying around the parking lot) He wants to improve for his own self respect and feeling of value, validation, affirmation, etc.
            2. The second reason a man should do this is if he wants a healthy, happy, loving, respectful, sexual and committed relationship with a woman (or another man for that matter). The guy in #1 above is attractive emotionally AND sexually because he is true to himself and his values. He is attractive because he CHOOSES to meet and enjoy meeting the unique needs of his partner (whatever they are!) while NOT allowing anyone to walk all over him or his values.
            3. This man DOES expect that living his life this way will attract a partner who shares his personal values and goals for the relationship I describe he desires. But he doesn’t expect that person to be the source of his sense of self-respect, self-value, or validation.
            4. The man NEVER accepts disrespect, indecent treatment, or behavior that is destructive to the relationship he is trying to help build. This is where his love is NOT unconditional. He doesn’t give to those who act in ways that prove they don’t deserve him or want to be with him. He knows there is someone out there who DOES deserve him, wants the same relationship he wants and, at some point (another topic), he frees himself up to pursue that person.

            To Jules’ point, this guy gives his partner whatever she really desires from him in the ways SHE needs to feel them. “I love you’s” daily or semi-annually – whatever – the key is to know, care, and act in the ways she desires of you and VICE-VERSA.

            In the real world of relationships, this never happens “simultaneously”. My message to men is they need to be OK with going first because most chicks really dig that in a man.

            • FlyingKal says:

              I’ve been thinking a lot about this over the two weeks since our last discussion (I’ve been hiking in the mountains, among other things. One of the things I’m passionate about.) First I actually thought that you were right, with the caveat that it just doesn’t work for everybody.
              Now, I’m not so sure anymore. Seems to be a lot of points contradicting each other, about where to focus and how to behave.
              I could write a very long story, but I really don’t know where to begin.

              As I mentioned, I stepped out of a long relationship a while ago. Our problem was essentially that she was brought up in a way where “No” actually meant “If you ask again in a while I’ll think about it”, while for me a “No” means that I haven’t done good enough and need to work harder the next time. And naturally, the more I worked to meet her NEEDS and at the same time being true to myself, the more she resented me for trying to hard…

            • “My message to men is they need to be OK with going first because most chicks really dig that in a man”

              I want to ask you, what most guys dig in a woman????

              • I think this is a great article and highlights some incredibly important things for men on the journey.

                The unfortunate thing is I think that only men transitioning or who have transitioned into this more post-conventional stage of functioning can actually understand the message! ahh the dichotomy.

                What I dig in a woman is when she creates a feedback loop with me by letting me know how I impact her. When she seeks connection with me and when she is able to surrender into her natural feminine radiance while maintaining healthy responsibility for her thoughts, words and actions.
                Thing is, like this article implies, I gotta step up and be the space for her to be in for that to occur!

        • ogwriter says:

          @goodguys2greatmen: I counted at least 8 hoops…er recommendations that you listed that men must master before they can arrive in this new better place. As a practical matter, considering that there isn’t much time for reflection in modern American culture, when does the man have time for himself? For the average unaware male, for who the art of self reflection is unknown, It could take a lifetime before he is even ready to focus all of the energy you say is necessary to have a robust sex life at home.

          Additionally, I fail to understand why a man would subject himself to such rigorous training on the outside chance that he will have a good sex life?
          You are asking very little of the other half of the transaction.
          The question that is central to solving this dilemma is not being asked. Why can’t women behave as they do sexually with their long term partners as they do with occasional lovers, friends,hot one night stands,etc? That is a conversation worth having.

          In my opinion, they simply get bored of the conquest game. We humans get bored of our partners easily and often trouble follows. Flowers, attention, romance, all of those gestures are supposed to keep her excited about him. What’s wrong with this picture? If you listen to the language women use to describe this situation it becomes very clear what is wrong. Perhaps the biggest problem with all of this is the assumption that all women will respond to this world view being espoused. These ideas and the presumptions embedded within them are culturally specific to and resonate with some American women and or western women. All women do not view the world this way. Thank God.

          • @ogwriter…

            Ditto Bro!!!

            He is assuming “most chicks really dig that in a man.” But, do they dig the man!?

            • ogwriter says:

              @Jules: Hmmm. True story. I dated a woman who happened to be white, who liked me mostly because I was black, exotic, dangerous and good looking to her. We were hanging out and she said, for no apparent reason, “You know if Brad Pitt wanted to fuck me, welllll, I would have to.But, I still love you”
              For me the question and conversation we need to have is as you have stated. Why do many women behave differently sexually with some men than they do their partners and husbands? What is interesting is that the guy at home is most likely to have all of the expectations by his woman placed on him that she wouldn’t dream of placing on the guy she just wants for sex. Study after study has shown and my personal experience tells me that women do this regularly-as a means of rationalizing having sex without a commitment.
              We must remember that not all women behave this way. Some,like Madonna, Marilyn Monroe, Mae West, Kim Kardashian and many, many others, have enough courage-love em’ or hate em’- to be who they are sexually. Those that don’t have such courage will tell us that society made me go on the down low about who they are sexually. Please. Someone who says that the patriarchy, still, is forcing women to behave this way has got serious denial problems.The US is a festering heap of sexuality run amok, there is little that is taboo or beyond the pale of acceptability. I ask why are women play this game.
              Simple, it works. All you got to do is read advice from experts; life coaches-what the f88k is that anyway!~- We are animals and we try to have our cake and eat it too whenever possible.

          • ogwriter… what I hear in this is:

            “I don’t want to change, why can’t she do it?”

            As if her sexual desire is a switch that she can turn on and off at will.

            I think it is valid to state if we are going to step up into this higher functioning of maturity to request it of her, and be willing to walk away if she isn’t for someone who will be.

            The thing is, as we shift into this way of being (as my series is all about that you have commented on) our need to have a woman want us becomes less and less.
            For me I get on with my life and living in a way that full inspires me regardless of who is in it.

            And as a result I seem to be becoming getting more attention from women at the same time.

            The simple statement is who wants to be with a person that we have to emotionally look after? To me this is what the article is about, growing in our emotional maturity.
            Goes for men and women, however this is a site aimed at men. Women are out there engaged in this kind of work, a lot of them, and they are waiting just waiting for confident, self-assured, non-needy men to turn up.

  18. Unconditional love and “leading by example” in your relationship or marriage is a MUST for all men. However, don’t you think that at some point, the Law of Reciprocity has to kick in?

    How many guys would (or “should”) continue to give and give in their relationships and marriages WITHOUT receiving their wants and needs met in return? Is there a time limit on when he stands up and says “Enough is Enough”?

    Or should he just keep giving until he “gives out”?

    • Hey VUS,
      Something tells me you already know the answer (for you) having read some of your other responses. ;^)

      My opinion may be the same as yours. Men and women who are clear on the life they plan to lead and the values they hold dear don’t stay forever with those who act like they want something else. I’m not just talking about sex here, but ALL marital values and desires

      To your question, a man must define for himself how long is long enough. But, he must follow a process of leading, communicating, escalating, confronting, and eventually giving an ultimatum. Usually he will begin to see reciprocity – but slowly. Patience is king.

      This process is uncomfortable and difficult. It must be done with only one motive and that is authentic love and respect. Any other motive destroys your credibility and negates your right to expect her to change.

      If it comes to the ultimatum step, his wife gets to make the choice – in or out. (of course, this same process applies to women trying to save a relationship)

      Lots of men/women will leave long before improving their own behavior and giving the other a chance to understand exactly what they desire. They refuse to learn how to communicate and relate on a whole new level. They stay full of resentment and often take their “skills” to the next relationship, and the one after that. And THAT ain’t right.

      • before I get slammed…the “marital values & desires” I’m referring to are some basic ones:
        Mutual respect, acceptance, trust, support, affection, emotional and physical intimacy. I’m sure everyone has their own list of basic, non-negotiable values and desires. I’m in no position to tell others what they should hold near and dear.

  19. ogwriter says:

    @John: By the way, all of the men who we mentioned who actually practiced unconditional love we all killed for their efforts.

    • Mother Teresa died naturally, but of the ones who were murdered perhaps they were murdered because their unconditional love and the possibility of it spreading was a threat to the transactional way we have and continue to organize our selves.

  20. ogwriter says:

    @John: How is it you don’t know much about the very people you have co opted your philosophy from? Jesus Christ invented the concept of forgiveness. Gandhi used it in India to create his nonviolent movement. Mlk a disciple of both men, preacher and an avowed Christian built the Civil Rights movement on the idea of turning the other cheek. Christianity grew out the idea that everyone was deserving of forgiveness. The New Testament is based on this concept.

    We are not ALL motivated by a belief that life is a zero-sum game.
    If I was you, I would stay away from using comparative attitudes about race to explain so called spiritual concepts. You came off to me as a privileged, ignorant, insensitive white person.

    • I am familiar with them but I was not raised Christian nor did I study Jesus or any of the other famous people you mentioned extensively. When you first mentioned them you said that all of them, except maybe Jesus, were mostly *not* unconditionally loving. Since I haven’t studied them extensively I chose not to disagree based on them as examples. My point could be made without proving or disproving that they were mostly unconditionally loving.

      It’s ironic that you say we are not all motived by a belief that life is a zero-sum game because when you first started commenting you said “Relationships are by their very nature, transactional.” which is exactly what I was saying above.

      “From interactions with people on the street all the way up to our closest relationships with our partners. We give to get.”

      All people aren’t always transactional and some people (like Jesus maybe) are never transactional. Unfortunately most of the time, we are transactional.. but it doesn’t have to be that way.

  21. Hank Vandenburgh says:

    This site might be improved if people didn’t post their brochure as comments.

    • @Hank

      ? Are you saying some of the comments are way way too long?

      • Hank Vandenburgh says:

        I guess I should have been more direct. The basic article is an ad. It doesn’t say anything at all. Some of the author’s comments, without containing much more meaning, then tout his business. I didn’t realize that the author and one of the principal commenters were the same person until I punched through the URL. I’m suspicious of the content in the brochure-like material on the website. I’m enough of a sociobiologist to believe that exuding “character,” if that means being a little more taciturn and jugemental, is going to work with women. Same for “leadership,” if it means the same things. These can “alphaize” a man’s self-presentation. So it’ll fetch women who respond to that type of alphaness, if you will. But I found it to be more stereotype-patriarchal than I like. I’m suspicious of authors here who tout their businesses, and would like to know if they pay to publish.

        • Do you question the motives of authors of books, or musicians, or poets or any number of people who make a profession selling ideas?

          • ogwriter says:

            @John: 1) I know exactly why the famous people I mentioned were killed, John. That is my point! When someone actually does take the risk to love unconditionally, and, it is rare indeed they can be murdered for doing so. And in fact, that is what we do as cultures. In my mind this speaks volumes as to how culture deals with love and to who we really are.

            You are naive as evidenced by so much of what you preach. Such as this tripe about how it is possible to be happy in prison. This is spoken like a privileged white boy who has never spent one day of his life in a prison.
            2) As an aware person it is my duty to question everything, otherwise stuff like what you wrote would go unchallenged.
            3) Spirituality has got nothing to do with being reflective, aware , empathic, sensitive and inclusive.

            • @ogwriter…

              I think Dr. King would have called John a white man of goodwill. Yes, he is naive about much.

              And you’re right Bro. Challenge everything! this entire piece is nothing more than tripe.

            • @ogwriter: Not all unconditionally loving people are murdered, maybe the ones that challenge power are, though.. that’s a good point. but just because we have always been one way doesn’t mean we can’t be another way. The fact that some can do it suggests we all can do it and just because that scares people who base their identity and life on being separate to the point that they would kill to protect it doesn’t prove we can’t all do it, it just proves how dysfunctional we currently are, that we would kill someone who just wants to love.

              You’re right, I am a very privileged white boy that hasn’t spent a day in prison but there are people across a full spectrum of life experiences including people who have suffered incredibly who agree and benefit from living via the same ideas I’m promoting.

        • @Hank…

          Agree. I am just very skeptical and suspicious of the article’s content.

  22. ogwriter says:

    @John: Before you think to suggest to tell someone who actually has experienced racism and whose people spent hundreds of years turning the other cheek, maybe you will want do some homework first. MLK a famous Blackman who practiced turning the other cheek and whose efforts paved the way for civil rights in this country was shot in the head. Jesus Christ, another slightly famous man who actually created the premise you preach, was horribly, ruthlessly, publicly humiliated , betrayed by a friend, before finally being crucified and left hanging on a cross.A white guy advising a person of color how to deal with racist aggression is not to be taken seriously. Are you really saying that happiness is just what one perceives it to be? Are you really saying that the Jews who suffered in concentration camps could have happier if they just perceived their situation differently? Wow. Open a history book. Your theories seem better suited for white people who don’t even bother to include in their considerations of life, the experiences of people of color.

    • From a spiritual perspective, yes, one can be happy in any situation. You can accept the situation you’re in and find peace within while still working to change your situation, but if you are in a prison for example and you can’t get out, thinking about how bad you want to be out won’t get you out, accept where you are for the time being and campaign to get out.

  23. ogwriter says:

    @John: I didn’t say that humans are incapable of unconditional love. But a human who can be or who does is rarer than hair on a bird. Name one human being that over the course of their lives, more often than not was unconditionally loving.. MLK wasn’t JFK wasn’t, Gandhi wasn’t, Mother Theresa wasn’t, Mohammed wasn’t, King David wasn’t; maybe Jesus Christ was…maybe. How many Mlk’s have there been in the history of the world? How many Gandhi’s? Yet somehow you want me to believe that humans are far more capable than what they have consistently demonstrated over the course of human history.
    Think about this, America, the world leader in democracy still hasn’t lived up to it’s own values. Name a single major civilization since recorded history that war and brutality weren’t central to their existence?

    • @ogwriter I don’t know the history of those famous people you mentioned well enough to agree or disagree but it doesn’t really matter whether they or anyone else has or hasn’t been mostly unconditionally loving. You could interpret my answer from my previous reference to the Henry Ford quote. It’s not really about what we have displayed in history as much as it is about the belief in it, practice of it and finally the knowing that comes with it. (which I have experienced)

      I posted about this in the past on Facebook and I think this will help you understand further what I mean, though obviously you may not agree:

      In another thread on my wall we are discussing cultural appropriation and racism, fun stuff, I know. I was googling around for something related to that discussion and happened upon the wikipedia page on reverse racism which mentioned this:

      “A recent study conducted at Tufts and Harvard sought to quantify perceptions of reverse racism by surveying Americans who identified as White or Black. The study’s title, “White People See Racism as a Zero-Sum Game That They Are Now Losing”, indicates its findings: that Whites feel as though they now suffer disproportionately from racism. (Blacks felt that anti-Black racism had decreased over time, but did not perceive increases in anti-White bias.) These results were constant for people of different ages and levels of education.”

      I read the study and it reminded me that I wanted to respond to the cultural appropriation thread from a spiritual perspective. I’ll do it here instead.

      We are all motivated by the belief that the world is a zero-sum game. Like whites believe that if minorities gain, they lose, so do we apply the same concept in every relationship we have: From interactions with people on the street all the way up to our closest relationships with our partners. We give to get. When we don’t get what we want we remove ourselves in order to punish. We do this because we think we are separate, and that’s the only way to get things, but we are not. If you give love, love will be returned. I mean that literally too. You could come up with a million examples of how there isn’t enough for everyone, but they would all be wrong because they will all exist in a world that believes life is a zero-sum game. If you want to know what that world could be like, practice forgiveness (love). the next time you feel like someone has hurt you or not given you what you want, forgive them (give them love). In the end, each and every one of us just wants unconditional love.

      • @John…

        “Like whites believe that if minorities gain, they lose, so do we apply the same concept in every relationship we have:”

        First, only whites in America think this way. It is focused on this obsession by white people over race…Have you ever asked this question? If you have 60% of the population (once 90%), 90% of the wealth, and control nearly ALL the major institutions of power in America, why in the hell would you care about what 10-15% of the population was doing?

        I asked this to white friends ALL the time. Their answer:oh I guess I never saw it that way. My next question is always: then just how the hell do you see it? All sorts of weird answers…

        No, we are not ALL believers that the world is a zero sum game. My belief is there are many games and if you lose at one you can always play another. That is the real essence of America. President Lincoln had many failures in life. But, he kept swinging because he always knew he COULD keep swinging!

        Oddly, a lot of white people are so obsessed with this race shit, they don’t realize you just keep swinging! Instead they want to talk about reverse racism and shit. Meanwhile, the Chinese are buying up the world!

  24. I can’t help but think that most women would read this and nod in affirmation, without any difficulty in understanding the intent (which results in partnership of two leader-givers). Especially those of us who’ve been in less than fulfilling marriages, where we never felt the respect, the welcome of our whole selves, the interest in who we are – male or female – not just what we can provide, in our out of bed.

  25. “His first priority is to create and maintain an emotionally safe, trusting, and loving environment for himself and his wife …”

    After surgery, I went through a range of emotions…this was my third major procedure, so it gets a bit easier as I gain the experience…I felt myself trying to detach myself emotionally from my husband as it got closer to the surgery date…it seemed easier somehow to have little expectations from him as he has let me down in the past….I was quite surprised this time: he took the day off from work and stayed around with my mother in the post-op area….He was also planning to spend all day practicing his instruments with his friend in preparation for a party this Saturday night, but now he changed his plans and he said he will instead bring our kid to LEGO Robotics Saturday afternoon (as it is still difficult for me to drive) and go to practice for the party later….

    It’s stuff like that that opens a woman’s heart…(it seems that a foundation of trust and emotional security needs to be laid down before any talk about “sexual requests”)….Is it really that hard to listen to the woman in your life?

    • “It’s stuff like that that opens a woman’s heart…(it seems that a foundation of trust and emotional security needs to be laid down before any talk about “sexual requests”)….Is it really that hard to listen to the woman in your life?”

      So do you know stuff to opens a men heart? Let me guess, give him sex?

      Most women sometimes forget that men are no different than women and we have heart too (not just sex drive ) . Just expecting your man to open your heart but never try to open your men heart is bit egoistical, isn’t it? Is it really hard to create a healthy environment when both talk and both listen, without expecting man is the one who have to heard???

      • Right, John,… because 3 days post- op, I should put my partner’s “sexual requests” ahead of any consideration for the well-being of my son and myself….Really now?

        • that’s it that’s it. Your response prove my point. That many women think men only think about sex and have no heart. Who said you have to put your partner sexual request ahead of you and your son? Who said it?? My comment is just a respones to your phrase
          stuff to open women heart”. Do you think men have no heart and they dont need stuff beside sex??? My comment is not about sex at all and you reply it with “should put my partner sexual request”.

  26. Great article. This is easily the most powerful and honest writing I’ve seen hear on the GMP. The only problem is that the only guys who really “get” this type of writing are the guys who’ve already had the epiphany. Without a road map for how to get there, most other guys are just left in the dark trying to figure out exactly what the heck it is you’re talking about.

    Sex is a need/desire just like any other. It’s not THAT big of a deal. If your wife has control over sexual life, its because YOU gave her that control. There are a million and one ways you can take control back, but none are without consequence. When most guys say they lack control or power, what they really mean is they lack a desire to deal with the consequences of being in control or having power.

    The point that the author is making is that attractive men do all of the things necessary to be attractive (ie, get laid) because THEY want to. They have learned to love the process of being attractive. They don’t always get the girl, but in a way it doesn’t even matter to them. Even if one particular girl doesn’t find them attractive, that doesn’t mean that there aren’t other women out there who won’t. And just knowing that bit of information changes them in ways that men who don’t know that about themselves will never understand.

    • What’s another word for “bingo”?

    • Meant to add that there IS another type of guy who gets this…

      This guy’s epiphany and desire to learn comes at the expense of discovering her affair, and many other clues that tell him the relationship is on the edge of failure. It hurts every guy it happens to. We can choose to use it to make us stronger and better, or simply hate her and everyone like her for the rest of our days.

      • “We can choose to use it to make us stronger and better, or simply hate her and everyone like her for the rest of our days.”

        Again, there are other options, including finding a woman that is sexually compatible with you AND does not think she is ENTITLED to be treated like a queen.

    • @DD

      I agree, you have to give up the expectation to have the epiphany, and that is attractive – but I think it’s important not to give it up in order to become attractive.. otherwise you’re not really giving it up, you’re trying to have your cake and eat it too. Just give it up period. You may become more attractive to your partner or other potential partners – but it doesn’t matter like you say, because you no longer have wrapped up your identity in your ability to have sex.

  27. wellokaythen says:

    Here’s a problem with a lot of discourse today about sex, especially when it comes to men and sex. Too many people throw around “a sense of entitlement” as an explanation. It’s become a really easy conclusion to pull off the shelf. Some commentors carry it around in a holster, ready for a quick draw at a moment’s notice.

    Too often today, we’re shown some really oversimplified binary about hetero male sexuality. Your two choices are 1) enlightened, spiritually deep, experiencing the full spectrum of intimacy, total reciprocation without expectations in a virtual zen-like state, or 2) you feel totally entitled to sex whenever you want, women are simply instruments for your pleasure, and you are just a gonad with no higher order brain function. If you want something really badly, then you’re an entitled jerk.

    There are other possibilities. In fact, in most of this place I like to call the real world, the reality is somewhere in the middle.

    Just because I feel intense sexual desire sometimes and get joy from sex and miss the joy of sex when I go too long without it doesn’t mean I feel entitled to it. Just because I want it and am disappointed doesn’t mean I expect to have it every time I want. I don’t assume that I deserve sex. I do believe that I deserve a chance to explore consensual possibilities of having sex, however. Up to a certain point, I do think that if I’m in a committed sexual relationship I have some right to make a sexual request. If I have no right to broach the subject then I’m not really in a peer-to-peer relationship.

    I do believe in some basic sexual human rights. If that’s entitlement, then too bad.

  28. This really resonated with me as a woman. Thank you for this piece Steve.

    Male sexuality is this awesomely powerful thing. It’s exciting, it’s powerful, it’s sensual, it’s gentle, it will test and push boundaries, it’s a lot of fantastic things. But it can also come with some negatives at times. It can be shallow, greedy, demanding, nagging, spiteful, cruel, sexist. (Of course, women can have both a positive and negative way of approaching sexuality as well.) It is sometimes something as a woman you feel you need to be defensive against. So it is really important for men to create that *safe* place. To hold out his hand and say, “Lets do this together”. Instead of, “You owe me sex.” In all honesty guys, when your wife or girlfriend just expects you to perform something, do you feel like doing it? When she nags you for something, does it make you more or less inclined to want to give it?

    Early on in my relationship with my boyfriend, we were getting intimate and I was not yet ready to have sex with him. He got upset with me and told me that I was “mean”. I was hurt but I didn’t say too much and soon left after that convinced I was going to break up with him the next day. But the next day he called me and apologized for what went down and said that would never happen again. I waited longer to have sex with him because I wanted to make sure he was a man of his word and because I simply didn’t feel safe to say *yes* to him until I knew he was okay with me saying *no*. If a woman doesn’t have the freedom to say “no” to sex, she can not feel safe to say “yes” to it as well.

    Whenever I’ve chosen to have sex with a man, when I was more mature and making better choices out of respecting myself more, it has only been in times when I felt safe enough to make myself vulnerable with that person. That goes for in the beginning of a relationship or long into it. Sometimes men forget that they need to keep working at the romance and recreating that safety just like women sometimes forget how important regular sex can be for a man.

    And while I know women have their own imperfections; we can be moody, demanding, nagging, negative, I don’t think that by the author expressing his view point toward the way men can approach the situation, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a good point.

    Further, I really liked alot of the ideas John Brier expressed. Especially:

    “In another perspective you could say that, are men really just sexual animals, constantly unhappy unless they are having sex? This is immature and I agree it’s an epiphany to realize that you are not that, and it really does change your dynamic in a relationship.”

    “For me, my inability to have sex with my girlfriend whenever I want to doesn’t feel like a loss of freedom. It would only feel like a loss of freedom if women were objects without rights of their own. My respect of my girlfriend’s desire or lack of desire for sex feels like real love – which is unconditional. If you are keeping score, it’s transactional as you say it, and conditional.”

    “When men let go of the idea that they “need” to have sex they will find that they never *wanted* to have sex as much as they thought they needed it. Then men will realize that the belief that sex is “deserved,” “needed,” “a right” or an “animalistic urge” was just a belief based on an unquestioned cultural expectation of men.”

    Thank you so much for these comments John. I have never even thought about it quite like you have but I totally agree. If men are conditioned to believe that they always “need” sex and can’t control it, I think women are conditioned to believe that they always need to provide sex to keep their man loyal and happy.

    The fact that your girlfriend doesn’t need to always give you sex the minute you may want it, and you still show her unconditional love is truly awesome and as a woman, I hope I can aspire to give the same in my relationships and receive the same in return.

    • ogwriter says:

      @Erin and Maggie:The idea that women only have quality sex when the conditions you mentioned are met is outlandishly far fetched. I have no doubt that for you and Maggie those things are critical. However, There is little reason to believe that women only have quality sex when the conditions you listed are met. What you speak of is a sanitized, idealized version of perfection and probably is culturally specific.

      Sometimes women have sex with men they don’t love and have no intention of loving, just because they are horny meat sacks. Danielle Steele has built a lucrative career appealing to these kinds of female sensibilities. A girlfriend once said to me that if Brad Pitt wanted to have sex with her she’d have to. She then said, “You wouldn’t be upset,It’s just sex.”

      • An intimate loving relationship is never far-fetched, @ogwriter. The fact that women can and do have sex simply for sex’s sake is not debatable. Women do like sex. And many women, myself included, act out of that drive – without regret. That is not what we’re discussing here, though. We’re discussing long-term, monogamous relationships (ie, marriage). We are discussing the quality of those kinds of relationships, not just the basic quality of sexual encounters. And as Maggie, I believe, pointed out, in such relationships bitterness can take root. A detriment to the relationship and all – or both, in this case – involved. What we are advocating for here is reciprocal, active Loving. Nothing outlandish or far-fetched. Boiled-down: love us like queens, you will find yourself King. Easy as that.

        • ogwriter says:

          @Erin: Whoops you are right. Anyway, we are all horny meat sacks honey.

        • @Erin…

          “Boiled-down: love us like queens, you will find yourself King. Easy as that.”

          You go first: treat me like a King and then (and only then) will you get the Royal treatment.

          How can you sit here and say your behavior outside a monogamous and/or long term relationship is not relevant to how you behave under a monogamous one? It is simply being naive. This is the thinking by women that I simply refuse to accept. It is just crazy!

          You just want to get screwed and pleasured in one situation but demand to be treated like a queen under monogamy. Frankly, I think this is just absurd, illogical, and delusional. Get real Erin!

      • Woops…looks like we got two girls name “Erin” on GMP.

        Ogwriter, I did say that the piece resonated with *me* specifically.

        I don’t disagree that women can have sex with men they don’t love. However, regardless of that, this piece I think is a really good one that can apply to a lot of women. Me included.

        Danielle Steele seems to mix romance with sex. I am not sure that women only read her books because they are “horny meat sacks..” (Kind of not impressed with that discription.)

        I don’t get the idea of “celebrity free pass sex”, but it is common in our celebrity over-celebrated culture.

        • @Erin…

          “I don’t get the idea of “celebrity free pass sex”, but it is common in our celebrity over-celebrated culture.”

          It is not the “celebrity free pass sex’ that is the issue. What are all those men who are allowed to just “show up” with cock in hand? No demands of being “treated like a queen” is placed on them. So, why impose a higher standard on your husband and/or long term partner?

          I shall NEVER accept it.

          I am now strictly responsible for my sexual happiness, Never will I place my sexual happiness in the hands of one woman. Why? Because of the crazy logic used by a lot of women when it comes to sex and marriage.

    • “Thank you so much for these comments John. I have never even thought about it quite like you have but I totally agree. If men are conditioned to believe that they always “need” sex and can’t control it, I think women are conditioned to believe that they always need to provide sex to keep their man loyal and happy.

      The fact that your girlfriend doesn’t need to always give you sex the minute you may want it, and you still show her unconditional love is truly awesome and as a woman, I hope I can aspire to give the same in my relationships and receive the same in return.”

      I’m really glad you got something out of them. I had a similar experience like your boyfriend’s in my own relationship except I was much worse than saying my girlfriend was “mean.” I wrote a comment with the story but decided not to post it since it was so personal.

      Regardless, I learned from that experience and this article has had me looking back at my experience and contemplating this issue in more depth.

      Your hope to be able to give unconditionally to your partner transitions well into a theme I’ve seen in the comments here: The idea that women could give first. It’s true, women could give first. They could respond to a demanding partner with unconditional love and give him exactly what he wants. The man would recognize the unconditional love and non-judgement and at some point it would be reciprocated, maybe not even consciously. This is because “giving is receiving.” If you don’t judge your partner’s actions and love them unconditionally as opposed to feeling, or especially telling them, that they are wrong or unfair, by not judging them, you become a mirror to their behavior and they can see themselves honestly. In this way they then might realize they were being more demanding than *they themselves* want to be and they would stop it and apologize.

      Unconditional love, non-judgement and the idea that “giving is receiving” as I speak about it comes from “A Course In Miracles.” But I read about it in “Take Me To Truth” by Nouk Sanchez and Tomas Viera, which I highly recommend. I probably butchered that explanation above, but if any of it intrigued you I can tell you, you are open enough to really get a lot out of the above book.

      Personally I have given unconditionally only a handful of times but I believed in it, tried it and saw it come back (giving is receiving) and now I know it is true.

      • ogwriter says:

        Are you really saying that having a powerful sex drive is not hardwired and can be overcome simply by thinking about it? Show me the proof that human beings can The drive to procreate is one of the most powerful fundamental drives humans possess.

        • It can’t be overcome by thinking about it but it can be given less power by *not* thinking about it. Many religous and spiritual disciplines practice celibacy.

          • I’ve seen that book, “A Course in Miracles” several times now at my local bookstore and I’ve thought about buying each time but haven’t. Maybe I should after all.

            Ogwriter, I think a lot of men have much more control over themselves and their sex lives than the media would like for men to believe. I look at it this way, my boyfriend appreciates when I approach him with an issue calmly and with respect. If I instead approaching him with all the feelings I very well may be feeling at that time, it can turn into a mess quick. Men like when women have control over their emotions and don’t just open all their pandora’s box of emotions on them. It’s the same with women when it comes to sex and men. Women respect and enjoy men that have control over their sexuality. Women respect men that sometiems deny themselves a little something here and there out of the good of the relationship. We don’t really like being with men that tell us they can’t control themselves. That they can’t not look at every hot woman they cross, or that they need porn the second you aren’t with them, or that they demand or nag you for sex and complain when you can’t or don’t gie them what they need on demand. I think our culture had bred men to believe that their sexuality is uncontrolable and that it shouldn’t be controllable because the more ravenous and consuming your sexuality is, the more of a man you are. I ultimately think this hurts men more than it helps them.

            But what do I know. That’s just what I think.

            • “Men like when women have control over their emotions and don’t just open all their pandora’s box of emotions on them. It’s the same with women when it comes to sex and men. Women respect and enjoy men that have control over their sexuality. ”

              Hmm, my ex girlfriend hate it when I cry in front of her because she think I dont have control over my emotions. And she think men who open all their pandora’s box of emotions are unmanly and it turn her off. As a man, I also enjoy women who have control over their sexuality.

              • John, seems like you got my point regardless of me having to cover all the wonderfully and amazing diverse ways people have relationships or relate to each other point by point. Thanks.

                • I think that we and our culture are big proponents of “men don’t cry.” So I think that a women might not want a man to cry is a separate issue of controlling emotions in relation to your point above. If the man we’re crying over not having sex when he wants to then it would be just another expression of “I can’t control my sexual desire.” If it’s crying over almost anything else and the man’s partner is discouraging it it may be an expression of the “men don’t cry” theme, and that is problematic because it limits the diversity of emotion men can express.. about one of the only ways men are allowed to express emotion in our culture is through anger and violence.

            • Erin, I haven’t read “A Course In Miracles,” but I have read quotes from it and from what I’ve read plus what others have said, it is seems to require deep interpretation. I would suggest “Take Me To Truth.” As that was really good for me and others who are familiar with both say it’s a great summary of the ideas of ACIM.

            • Erin

              So true, so true what you say here
              ✺ “Men like when women have control over their emotions and don’t just open all their pandora’s box of emotions on them. It’s the same with women when it comes to sex and men. Women respect and enjoy men that have control over their sexuality. “✺

    • FlyingKal says:

      @Erin:
      There’s a difference, that I think most people are actually aware about, between not getting sex the minute you may want it, and not getting it the same month or even year you want. And I think it would make this conversation a whole lot of good if people would stop to pretend otherwise…

      • Flying Kal, I don’t think people are “pretending” anything. There is certainly a difference between not having sex the second you want it and not having for extended periods of time. I certainly can understand the frustration of a man who wants to have sex but is repeatidly denied it from his partner. But that’s a seperate issue from what I believe is being expressed in this article about how men choose to look at sex.

        • FlyingKal says:

          Erin,
          As far as I can see, there is nothing in this article about neither constant nor instant sexual gratification. As you say it is a separate issue. So why do (some) people insist on bringing it up in the comments thread, as pretending it is the only thing men are interested in?

        • @Erin…

          Separate though related.

          It is not just the frustration Erin. You have to also take into consideration that this man has committed himself to a woman whom he knows has engaged in “free pass sex” with other men prior to marriage.

          Here is a serious question for you and other married women or women in long term relationships: Why don’t you give you husbands a free pass too? Maybe he would make you his queen.

          The men whom you gave the free pass to were men whom you sexually desired. Many women in long term relationships and marriages simply no longer sexually desire their husbands. So, all of this talk is just skirting around this fact. It is everything but the truth.

  29. I think we all just need to get laid. Period.

    • [sarcasm alert]

      Shame on you for even thinking like this. Why can’t you think of her needs? Where do you get this sense of entitlement? Selfish bastard, how dare you….

      Don’t you know that married women never want as much sex as their husbands?

  30. When men let go of the idea that they “need” to have sex they will find that they never *wanted* to have sex as much as they thought they needed it. Then men will realize that the belief that sex is “deserved,” “needed,” “a right” or an “animalistic urge” was just a belief based on an unquestioned cultural expectation of men.

    You still get horny, you just don’t jump from horny to thinking you must have sex now, and if you can’t have sex because your partner isn’t able to or doesn’t want to, the horniness passes and you do something else, but you’re ready to have sex whenever your partner is able to in the future. This is a part of the epiphany that the author talks about when he refers to a “transition from horny to happy.”

  31. @ogwriter the idea that we can’t control our desires, that we are animals, is a justification for women to give us sex when we want it.

    “Believing that I don’t need freedom and that it isn’t owed to me as a consequence of my birth, won’t and can’t alleviate the pain of not having freedom.”

    It sounds like you’re saying that your freedom is being taken away if you can’t have sex when you want it.

    For me, my inability to have sex with my girlfriend whenever I want to doesn’t feel like a loss of freedom. It would only feel like a loss of freedom if women were objects without rights of their own. My respect of my girlfriend’s desire or lack of desire for sex feels like real love – which is unconditional. If you are keeping score, it’s transactional as you say it, and conditional.

    So far the best introduction of unconditional love that I have seen came in this book “:
    Take Me To Truth: Undoing the Ego”
    Nouk Sanchez , Tomas Vieira

    http://www.amazon.com/Take-Me-Truth-Undoing-Ego/dp/1846940508/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330430670&sr=8-1

    Your arguments on red pill blue pill remind me of the Mens Rights subreddit which makes me think of this article:
    http://jezebel.com/5992479/if-i-admit-that-hating-men-is-a-thing-will-you-stop-turning-it-into-a-self+fulfilling-prophecy

    • wellokaythen says:

      For a lot of men, when you’re feeling sexually frustrated, in the middle of that situation it’s hard to tell the difference between acceptance and resignation. Letting go of some things feels an awful lot like dying or giving up on life or denying big parts of yourself. There is a difference between acceptance and resignation — resignation is letting go of something and resenting it. Accepting is just the letting go part. One sucky part about life is that in practice it’s really hard to tell the difference in the short term.

      This was my epiphany about sex as a married man having less sex than I wanted, although it’s an ongoing process and still not totally settled for me.

      • Fine. I’ll give up my selfish expectations of having more sex. She can give up her selfish expectations of me being monogamous. Why is one sense of “entitlement” or “ownership” or more acceptable than the other? If the physical desire is so unimportant that it’s up to me to deal with it without bothering her with it, then let me deal with it without bothering her with it….

        • If it starts with you expecting you should be able to have sex with her whenever you want but you can’t and then you have sex with others knowing that will upset her, how is that the same as her just not wanting to have sex as much as you?

          You both presumably agreed to be monogamous, but you never agreed that she would have sex whenever you wanted her to, so it’s not the same.

          • So, an expectation based on a promise cannot ever be challenged, but one that’s not backed up by a promise is negotiable? If an epiphany can shatter one expectation for the better, then why can’t we ask for an epiphany to shatter another expectation for the better.

            Furthermore, what I’m hearing is that doing something that you know will upset the other person is wrong. Okay. A wife’s refusal to have a conversation about sex or work on the marital sex life at all is pretty upsetting to a lot of husbands. That shutdown is also a clear violation of the most common marital vows. In fact, I bet if it was a husband withdrawn from an unsatisfying sex life who left his wife sex-starved, he would probably be the villain there as well. He’d have to have a different epiphany about not being so selfish.

            In the situation described in the article, what I’m seeing is that his wife is having all the sex she wants, and there’s no suggestion that she has any reason to change anything whatsoever. That sounds pretty selfish to me.

            All of this reminds me of my cranky uncle who liked to say “boy, you gotta get yer mind right.”

            • I think if you have the epiphany the author mentions (ultimately that you can’t expect to have sex whenever you want to) the story would end there. Your wife or partner wouldn’t need to have an epiphany of her own to “even things out,” per se.

              If a wife or partner refuses to have a conversation about sex in this context it’s probably because she doesn’t know how to communicate or doesn’t realize herself, that the man’s “need” for sex is based on an unquestioned cultural expectation in men to have unquenchable sexual appetites.

              • “or doesn’t realize herself, that the man’s “need” for sex is based on an unquestioned cultural expectation in men to have unquenchable sexual appetites.”

                Or the opposite could be the case. Perhaps she believes in this stereotype about men even though her husband really isn’t like that. In that case, her Women’s Studies wisdom about male sexuality is actually false but goes unchallenged.

                • None of that really matters though. Once you accept that satisfying your sexual desires is YOUR responsibility and no one else’s, much of the animosity and resentment that you might have had towards the opposite sex in this arena starts to dissipate. There are many ways to satisfy your sexual needs that wouldn’t involve your wife; some of those ways are natural and healthy, others are potentially destructive to the relationship. Have each man deals with that is up to him. Is that selfish? Absolutely. But the woman who refuses to have sex with her husband has also chosen to put her own needs above those of the relationship, which is equally selfish. As a man, you can either stay in that situation, while letting the resentment towards your wife build, or you can take control of your life and seek to get your needs met in other ways.

                  The point is to stop projecting blame for your lack of sexual access onto women. As long as you allow someone else to control your happiness, you’ll never truly be happy.

                  To many men here are just angry about where they are in their lives and they don’t see any way out other than changing women. But that just ain’t gonna happen. If you want your life to change in any significant way, you have to work on changing YOU first.

                  • well said

                  • @DD

                    “But the woman who refuses to have sex with her husband has also chosen to put her own needs above those of the relationship, which is equally selfish.”

                    I could not agree more. This is what I elected to do by terminating a sexless marriage. My sex life has been absolutely fabulous since that big decision. I took control over my sex life back.

                    I still harbor resentment for many women because they selfishly refuse to admit that their conduct is in fact selfish.

                    All the author has done with this piece is to place the burden on men to make women happy. BS. Is a woman’s #1 goal to make her man happy? No.

                    My #1 goal is to make myself happy and then to help others attain their goals and desires in life. No, I will not give a woman 90% of myself for a 5% return. That’s utterly dumb. Some of the women these men are being encourage to give 90% do not even love their husband. And never did!

                    Do I feel badly? Absolutely not. It has never affected my breakfast. Why? Because this is EXACTLY what many women do all the time.

        • Your expectations are NOT selfish. A man should never feel guilty or apologize for being a passionate, sexual being. Marriage is an emotionally intimate and SEXUAL relationship unless you’ve agreed to otherwise at the start. We don’t have to settle…but we DO have to do our job better.

          Expectations can be unrealistic if we have ignored the needs of the other person. My points are based in a belief and experience that most wives are secretly dying for more leadership and confidence in creating emotional intimacy and safety without constant pressure and expectations for sex.

          These are the types of guys they are having great sex with in their heads. (ladies, please confirm) They want us to be that guy so they can show their “unapologetic sexuality”.

          • Lady Marie says:

            Very well put.

            I passionately respect my husband as a sexual being, and the basis of our great sex life is, beyond a doubt, respect and communication.

            While I can only speak for myself, and from a plethora of discussions I have had with my female friends, I would say that women tend to be as sexual as men. The difference for me, and many other women, is that I need to feel a great deal of trust, respect, security and intimacy with my partner in order to perform. If I feel overly pressured or like I am just “fulfilling his need”, that’s not that great for me.

            The best and most frequent sex has always been with men who understand this.

            As for “women secretly dying for leadership and confidence” from men, I will concede that I personally seek men who can provide this. But I also think that part of the responsibility for creating this trust definitely falls on the woman. Whether it be an obligation to be open about her needs or willing to communicate honestly about sex. It works best if we meet each other half way.

            I guess that is where the “epiphany” comes in. Although I had never before thought about it in the way it’s expressed here, I think it makes some sense that in order to truly understand this aspect of a woman’s needs, a man may need to adjust the way he thinks about himself and his own needs.

            For me, the most important takeaway form this article is the idea that one partner needs to initiate it, i.e open that communication channel and foster those feelings of safety and security for both partners to feel comfortable and respected in their sexuality.

            When it works, its a great thing for BOTH men and women.

            • “For me, the most important takeaway form this article is the idea that one partner needs to initiate it, ”

              A perfect takeaway. In troubled relationships with intimacy issues, a woman can sometimes be the successful initiator. But (in THIS situation) most women have shut down their desire to “lead” him to anything. My experience tells me she is really waiting for him to go first, model it, prove, be consistent…THEN she joins hims exactly as you described. He needs to be coming from an *authentic* place of love and respect or she’ll smell it a mile away. Thanks for your comments, Lady M.!

            • FlyingKal says:

              So the message is basically that women only want to have sex with men who really doesn’t care about having sex wih them, but will still put in tremendous effort to make them (the women) feel secure enough to want nothing else but to sex up the man in question?

              Is it just me, or does this sound a bit contradictive?
              And then, what if the man says no to having sex with the woman? Since the first principle of it all was that he didn’t care about having it or not?

              • I would change the “basic” message (generalization alert) to:

                Women want to have sex with sexually confident and competent passionate men who do not NEED to have sex with them but WANT sex with them. Women want this man to put a priority (not tremendous effort) on trust, respect, and emotional safety for HER. Then she’ll take him to the cleaners. He knows it – she knows it.

                The energy of sexual “wanting you” is hot. The sexual energy of “needing you” is not. It’s not that we don’t care about it, we just don’t NEED it. We are confident in initiating it when we have done a good job of prioritizing HER emotional needs. Do this and the “rejection rate” goes way down. Even when she does need to say no, no sweat. We didn’t “need” it anyway and we will return another time. There are many other ways to love the stuffin’ out of her. (Long term rejection is a totally different topic)

                A man SHOULD be prepared to say no to sex with any women who acts like she doesn’t want it with him. Pity sex, obligation sex, let’s get it over with sex, etc. should all be turned down by men. Men who accept that kind of sex are even a bigger turn-off than when they starting begging for it.

                • @goodguys2greatmen…

                  “Women want to have sex with sexually confident and competent passionate men who do not NEED to have sex with them but WANT sex with them. Women want this man to put a priority (not tremendous effort) on trust, respect, and emotional safety for HER. Then she’ll take him to the cleaners. He knows it – she knows it.”

                  How in God’s name can you write this, let alone believe it? Seriously.

                  Then, how do you explain the many women who WANT to have sex with men whom they ONLY find sexually attractive? There is NOTHING emotional, there is little to no trust. Why, she does not even consider him worthy of dating material.

                  I am not trying to be rude her. But, I really find much of what you write to be little more than your terribly flawed opinion.

                  Whatever you “view” or generalized “theory” about is about this matter, it does not explain much of what happens in the real world as it relates to women and sex.

                  “Prioritizing her emotional needs….” I truly scoff at the idea that this is necessary to have sex with a lot of women. This is the nonsense a lot of married women toss around to their husbands for sex. Does the hot tennis instructor she screws prioritize her emotional needs? I think you know that answer.

      • I agree with you about the distinction between acceptance and resignation – which could lead to resentment. Resentment comes from saying yes to something you aren’t really comfortable with. If you just resign to not having sex when you want to you haven’t questioned the idea that you should be able to have sex whenever you want..

        I said this in another comment but ultimately the epiphany the author speaks about includes and comes *after* accepting the idea that _you can NOT have sex whenever you want to_. And why should you be able to? Your partner could be sick, tired, injured or just plain not in the mood and because they are an autonomous person with rights just like you it doesn’t make any sense for you to expect otherwise. Why would you want to anyway? What would sex with someone who doesn’t want to be there be like? It would probably be an awful one way experience, with you *getting* your orgasm while they hung in there for you. Do you need sex that bad that you want your partner to put aside their reservations about having sex just to satisfy your apparently insatiable need?

        • Lucy Montrose says:

          i>You are no longer an unattractive, adolescent-minded guy whose emotional and physical satisfaction are controlled by others and what you can get from them.

          I think the resentment comes from a feeling of still being under the control of others– namely, the person granting or withholding consent. He can take exquisite control of himself, making himself as attractive and emotionally available as possible… and his partner can still say no.

          In a very real sense, we are dependent on others’ consent, and that goes for all social endeavors– whether it’s sex, a business, a band, even a casual get-together. Every social experience is the result of two or more people ALL deciding to say yes to each other at the same time– and not being able to make that serendipity happen leads to not getting rich life experiences. Not any that aren’t solitary, anyway.

          • “He can take exquisite control of himself, making himself as attractive and emotionally available as possible… and his partner can still say no.”

            …and my response is “fine”. That doesn’t change our path or happiness one bit…as long as we are secure in what our path is. My partner has a choice. I can’t change him/her, control him/her, and their free will is out of my hands.

            Having to say this will sometimes be quite painful…but necessary. But if another person doesn’t give “consent” to your invitation to join them in the life and values YOU choose to lead for yourself…that’s ok. There are other people in the world who DO share your values and you are now free to attract them and lead the life you want.

            Same goes for anyone who declines a business offer or social engagement invitation. Their choice should not affect YOUR desire to be who you want to be, adhere to the values you choose, or do what you want to do.

            • wellokaythen says:

              Another one of my epiphanies as a married man sounds a little counterintuitive on the surface and even sounds a little destructive, but for me it was a revelation that helped me and my marriage.

              I looked square in the face at the fact that I always have the choice to leave my marriage. I could get a divorce and seek another sex partner. When you are married, every day you make a choice to be married or not be married that day. You may not do it consciously, but you make that choice. That feels unstable at first, but ultimately it’s empowering and reassuring. For me the revelation was that I really was the person most in control of my own sexual experiences. I was never totally “dependent” on one person who had absolute control.

              Oddly enough, that actually made me happier in my relationship with my wife. I didn’t feel so trapped like I did before. (What probably helped more was some good couple’s counseling and a lot of internal homework by BOTH of us.)

              The usual caveats apply, however: Results may vary. Consult your physician before engaging in exercise. Cooking times vary depending on the wattage of the microwave and altitude.

              • “For me the revelation was that I really was the person most in control of my own sexual experiences. I was never totally “dependent” on one person who had absolute control.”

                99.99% pure gold in my personal opinion!

      • @wellokaythen..

        “Letting go of some things feels an awful lot like dying or giving up on life or denying big parts of yourself.”

        You do have a third option: leave the relationship. Then you have to deal with neither of these negative situations. You ALWAYS have a choice.

    • ogwriter says:

      @John: My point is that we, men and women, are both knuckle dragging animals who are bound to our senses. In no way am I advocating that or suggesting that men or women be given the license to think that they can have sex whenever they want, that is just ridiculous. There is ample evidence, both current and past history, to support my contention that we seldom if ever actually control our emotions and desires. It is our failure to recognize who we really are that prevents from actually doing a much better job of controlling said emotions. Control is all we can hope for and failure is inevitable. How many riots do you think have happened in America? Over five thousand in a little over two hundred years.
      Did you know that at the turn of the century, when America opened it’s doors to the tired and the blahblahblah, there were 10,000 newspaper boy’s, some as young as 5/6 years old, living on the streets of New York, What must life have been like for them? What would they think about your belief of unconditional love? They worked for two of the most powerful and rich newspaper men in the world, Mr. Pulitzer and Mr. Hearst, who treated them like slaves or serfs.
      The overwhelming vast majority of people are not capable of giving or receiving unconditional love.Furthermore, one cannot get there without first accepting the fact that one is truly lacking in some fundamental ways. Lastly only a fool thinks that just because one is horny one should or could satisfy the feeling instantly.

      • @ogwriter: For any animal behavior that you find to justify a particular human behavior you can find a different animal behavior that contradicts the human behavior.

        Pointing at an example of unloving human behavior does not prove that humans can’t be unconditionally loving.

        Regarding any belief that you, or I, or even the entire human race can’t be unconditionally loving, I think the following quote is relevant:

        “Whether you think you can, or you think you can’t — you’re right.”

        – Henry Ford (according to goodreads.com)

    • PursuitAce says:

      There’s an irony for you. In the patriarchy boys learn early that there are people who will hate them. There known as enemies. Threatening to hate a man in this system is hardly a threat. You’d think a feminist would know this. But hey, if it makes you feel better do it I guess.

  32. ogwriter says:

    @ Gint: Cool bro.

  33. ogwriter says:

    The other issue is that we don’t want to accept that marriage is transactional, and not necessarily about love.Quit your job and stay at home watching television and your wife will eventually leave you. Why? Because she has an expectation that you will do your part to contribute financially to the relationship.

  34. ogwriter says:

    @John: I thought that what this article was trying to say. I would have to disagree with the idea that men are not just sexual animals. I am not saying that men do not have other qualities worthy of note, but we are animals and so are women. We continue to believe that we can through culture, change this part of who we are. I believe that the reason(s) we are sexual animals is quite clear. Let’s be honest, if women didn’t have the capacity to offer us sex, we wouldn’t marry them or raise families with them and we would be disinclined to deal with the emotional swings of mood.
    Believing that I don’t need freedom and that it isn’t owed to me as a consequence of my birth,won’t and can’t alleviate the pain of not having freedom.
    This is the matrix argument;red pill ior blue pill. Just because poor whites don’t know that they are being screwed by white politicians doesn’t mean that they don’t feel the pain of their condition.

    • PastorofMuppets says:

      @ogwriter

      I’m confused by your analogies here.
      Are you suggesting sex is a birthright?
      Are you suggesting that not getting the sex you’re owed by mere existence is akin to being screwed over by an unscrupulous politician?

      I think you’re missing a key point the author is trying to make …. when you stop moping about not getting the sex to which you think you’re owed (thus ceding your happiness to the control of others), then you might just become the kind of man with whom women want to have sex.

      • ogwriter says:

        @PastorofMuppetts: I am not missing that point at all, i a am just disagreeing with it. The need for sex is hardwired and for good reason. Whatever is hardwired is permanent and the notion that we can simply think our way out from under it’s spell is hard to fathom. I would agree that if one walks around believing that one should be having sex whenever one wants is asking to be disappointed. That is true of wanting or desiring almost anything, not just sex.

        Relationships are by their very nature, transactional. Sex is a part of that transaction. However, our mistaken belief that we are higher animals prevents us from accepting that fact and accepting what comes with it. We want to believe in romantic fairy tales about true love the need for a soul-mate and fail miserably to deal with what it is we are really after in our relationships. One can no more get rid of expectations in a relationships than one could rid of water of wet.. Your last line,”…then you might just become the man that women want to have sex with,.” is so oozing with assumptions I feel compelled to respond. As I write this,I am trying to figure out a way I can avoid sex with my girlfriend tomorrow because I have a 20 page paper to write. She doesn’t like it when she doesn’t get her sex.
        In fact, she enjoys the fact she knows and understands exactly what my expectations are for sex and I her’s. Thank god I don’t have to get her flowers or perform any of that other pretentious nonsense posing as love so popular in western cultures. Isn’t a wife or a girlfriend expecting romance before or as a condition of having sex wrong according to your logic? Isn’t that extortion/prostitution? Why should a man suffer the pain of such indignities while simultaneously being expected hold his desires in check? And dear lord, one should get this stuff straight long before one get’s get married or into a serious monogamous relationship.

        • Good for you, ogwriter. I’m dead serious. This is a great example of defining and living by your values without apology. A guy could read your words and list a few things you hold near and dear as “truths” for you. And it appears they work for you and the person you’ve attracted into your life.

          It actually helps support my point that a guy needs to do this for HIM and nobody else. Those who don’t share your values are free to go. Without your clear, firm values, you wouldn’t be so confident in your disagreement with my premise. I think a guy’s life and ultimate happiness is guided by the governing principles he chooses. In his book, “Hold On To Your N.U.T.S.”, Wayne Levine refers to these as your “Non-negotiable, Un-alterable Terms”. Good short read, by the way, for a guy confused about his nuts.

        • @og..

          “Your last line,”…then you might just become the man that women want to have sex with,.” is so oozing with assumptions I feel compelled to respond.”

          ogwriter, my man! How have you been? I hope all is well with you.

          You are so right. All too often there are just too many assumptions (both implicit and explicit) that people like goodguys2greatmen they are making (knowingly or unknowingly). Much of what they say can be easily dismantled and shuttered.

          In order for a theory to be valid, it must also be able to explain exceptions. What you find is most of what is put forth is unable to explain exceptions. Frankly, they do not even deal with exceptions. As such, they are little more than opinions.

  35. This is a great article. It dovetails into something the spiritual teacher Byron Katie speaks about, that we don’t have to believe our thoughts and that pain comes from believing them. If you believe that “my wife should give me sex.” but she isn’t doing it to the degree you feel is necessary you will find pain. If you accept it, you will be at ease, and that leaves you in control of your happiness, so it’s not at the mercy of the world.

    In another perspective you could say that, are men really just sexual animals, constantly unhappy unless they are having sex? This is immature and I agree it’s an epiphany to realize that you are not that, and it really does change your dynamic in a relationship. No longer are you agitated and counting the days/hours since you last had sex in order to decide if it has been too long, now you are just enjoying each other and when the time is right it will happen.

    • Glad you like it, John, thanks. Much of what I coach men is about what comes first – their thoughts or their emotions. It’s usually a long conversation/debate. However, in my experience, the guys who have major breakthroughs in their relationships seem to be the guys who CHOOSE to take control over the thoughts that drive their negative emotions/pain/resentment/fear/etc. This allows them to respond to their wives constructively instead of “reacting” to their wives negatively.

      Becoming that guy also allows us to eliminate sexual neediness and frustrations that can turn women ice cold. It’s great to see their intimate lives turn around when their wives feel authentic appreciation and respect instead of sexual gamesmanship. These women feel more attraction and safety to be the “animals” they fantasize about being. Yes, they do…all the time.

    • ogwriter says:

      John: The “spiritual leader” you talk about is not saying anything that many before him have not already said many times. The problem with spiritual leaders and philosophers is that they don’t know anything. They can’t live your life for you or tell what your experiences are. Why is there even a need for someone to lead my spirit,who doesn’t know me or my life history? For me, real teachers don’t lead, they get the hell out of the way. They do there best to make sure that the student attains independence as quickly as possible. You speak of teaching unconditional love, but what is love, right? There is no single definition of love that any two people can agree on. So, I guess love is what the guru tells us it is. And if that is what it is how can one possibly define love for themselves based upon someone else’s interpretation? In this sense love doesn’t even exist.

  36. What a load of crap. Let’s not put any expectations on our wife who is the other HALF of the equation.

    • Jeff puts it more bluntly than I would, but…basically…yeah.

      Your marriage-based sexuality is a relationship with another person who has his/her own expectations. Perhaps she has some epiphanies of her own to work through. Perhaps your marital relationship would benefit most from BOTH people coming to a higher awareness of their sexual desires and expectations?

      For one thing, there’s nothing in here about having an actual conversation with your wife about sex. If you want to fit your sex in with what she wants, shouldn’t you, like, you know, ask her?

      Don’t be so hard on him, though. He’s using his real name. His wife is going to read this. The audience for this may not be other men but her. If you read the article as foreplay for his wife, or something to make him more popular with the ladied, it makes a lot more sense.

    • Hey Jeff,
      A lot of my writing does come across as one-sided and a little rough on the guys…I get it. I hold men to a high standard of character and conduct when it comes to leading in the romance and sex department. The huge majority of wives I talk too desperately want more leadership and confidence from their husbands in this area. It is never a 50-50 deal. Knowing what that ACTUALLY means to a guy is where I try to help.

      Nope, the ladies are NEVER off the hook for stepping up. Most of them simply need a man to go first in showing his leadership and confidence and then she can feel comfortable unleashing HER leadership. That last point will get me a lot of flames, I know. If it feels like I dismiss the strength and leadership of women, you don’t know me. Just saying someone needs to “go first”, not whine about it and that person is usually us guys. Accepting this with a smile is attractive.

      My belief is that men should not think for a minute that romance and sex is a 50-50 process. Winning a woman’s respect and trust in your masculinity can feel like 90-10 most days. I believe that’s because it IS our job and accepting that reduces a lot of resentment within us. With a little practice, this can become a lot of fun for a man because it “lights up” a woman when she is with a guy who gets it.

      When a guy gets this and consistently operates this way (for himself), most women naturally step up their role in the process and their joint intimacy feels more like a partnership. This is my expectation for women. At some point, they must step up. They can choose to believe in him, trust him, and accept his leadership. Or not.

      Since he is simply operating as the man he wants to be (not to get sex) her choice doesn’t matter to him. If he is a guy who wants a warm, confident, strong, sensual, generous woman in his life…he is finally becoming a guy who deserves one and WILL attract one.

      In the context of a marriage, his wife will either see the writing on the wall and will usually start working on herself to help transform the marriage. If not, she is free to find someone who wants the life she wants. You, on the other hand, are going to be just fine.

      A man’s “happily ever after” doesn’t necessarily have to include his wife. But that’s just another load of crap. :^)

      • When you say it is our job as men to lead in romance in sex, just what exactly do you mean? Its our job according to whom?

        • Hey Jack,
          I think that’s a really good question. Remember I said *I* believe this to be true. Not saying anyone else is wrong for not believing it.

          The “according to whom” question about what men and women “should be” has been argued by theologists, anthropologists…I won’t type all the other “gists”….forever. My answer is “who cares?” I have no interest in debating it, though, it can be interesting over a few beers.

          The two most important things I witness when a man CHOOSES his jobs (read “values”), are these:
          1. His personal level of self-respect, clarity of purpose, dignity, confidence, and clear boundaries for those in his “circle” hit an all-time high. And this “feels” good…feels right. It’s also hugely attractive to women which is a result – NOT a goal.

          2. As a result, his wife develops a new level of trust and respect for this guy which *usually* results in her wanting to match his energy and values for a better relationship. She follows his loving lead. She usually becomes more open emotionally and physically when she believes his changes are authentic for him and not a ploy to control her or GET something from her. (this result is exactly what happens with scared/disrespectful/shut down horses too )

          So, I don’t know “according to whom”. I see happy, satisfied men who choose to believe and act upon it as if is true for them. They also believe and act upon other values like opening the truck door for their lady, giving her reasons to feel good, appreciating and accepting her, and giving her his “gifts” without expectation.

          The good news is that a guy can decide for himself what HIS operating values are live each day according to them. His choice.

        • Hank Vandenburgh says:

          Yes. This bit right above strikes me as anal and controlling disguised as character. Crypto-patriarchal. I can see a gooshy woman going for it, but not the type of woman I’m interested in. My wife and I have similar values, and practically all the women I’ve ever been with have had values similar to mine, but it hasn’t been a transformational process. We’re like that entering the relationship. Unlike the author of the main piece, too, I can’t remember ever being in a state of insecure horniness either. Oh, I have gone without sex for a couple of years in a row. Just had to masturbate during that time. Time wasn’t right for love. The Tao takes care of it. If I were a woman married to Mr. Leadership, though, I’d probably push him down the stairs at some point.

          • Hank
            Interesting comment 🙂
            ✺” If I were a woman married to Mr. Leadership, though, I’d probably push him down the stairs at some point”✺

      • @goodguys2greatmen…

        “My belief is that men should not think for a minute that romance and sex is a 50-50 process. Winning a woman’s respect and trust in your masculinity can feel like 90-10 most days. I believe that’s because it IS our job and accepting that reduces a lot of resentment within us. With a little practice, this can become a lot of fun for a man because it “lights up” a woman when she is with a guy who gets it.”

        This is totally false. A woman will “light up” when she is with a man who is sexually attractive. If she wants to have sex with him, all the mush you just mentioned is thoroughly irrelevant.

        I just for the life of me do not understand why so many so called sex/relationship experts ignore facts. If you can explain to me and other men why women have sex with thugs and riff raft, then I would believe you.

        But, there is only one explanation: they are horny and want to have sex with said man. That’s it bubba. None of this stuff you are talking about.

        • I don’t think you’re rude, just honest. And we may be on the verge of agreement. Except for this point which I believe to be true: Most women (esp. long term married women which is my focus) do NOT experience sexual attraction before FIRST “feeling” other things from a man. Sexual attraction women starts with feelings. I’m not offended if you buy my premise. Ask 100 married women and see what data you get.

          Pick up artists and single men who sleep with tons of women typically use the exact stuff I’m talking about and you referred to (confidence, etc). A bad boy “thug” is sexually attractive to the both single and married women not because he looks hot, it’s because he ACTS hot. That’s what I’m trying to convey to frustrated married guys.

          Adopt more of the attitude of the dating pick up artist, but do it from a genuine intention of love for your wife. These include all the sexy things “bad boys” do to get laid.
          1. Want her – don’t need her
          2. Be unapologetically sexual
          3. Don’t take her crap when she treats you badly
          4. Set boundaries for her behavior
          5. Make her feel special
          6. Get good at real compliments about her, not her hair
          7. Act like you can take sex with her or leave her
          8. Learn how to touch her non-sexually to create a connection

          These are just few things that successful PUA’s do to constantly trick women into having lots of sex with them. She is not simply attracted to his looks because mediocre dudes do this ALL THE TIME with great success.

          I’m trying to get husbands to realize that they either used to be this guy or can learn to be this guy. 20 years into a marriage doesn’t feel much like dating. We can choose to act like it if we want to. First, because we enjoy being that guy. Second, because she enjoys being around that guy and gets turned on by that guy just as you point out.

    • I don’t think what he’s saying is crap. I think what he’s saying makes sense in a specific situation. It obviously doesn’t apply to all situations. But it certainly applies to men (or even women) who are extremely self-centered.

    • I can’t decide whether this comment is hilarious or really, really sad. In my world, if a man puts me first and takes responsibility for the relationship, I will do ANYTHING for him. Anything!! 😉 Weak, narcissistic men live in fear that they will somehow get the “short end of the stick” if they give too much, but quite the opposite is true. Hence, the epiphany. Best wishes in your relationships, dude.

      • wellokaythen says:

        A bit of a paradox here, though. If he puts you first, then there are limits to what you can do for him, so it’s not exactly anything.

      • Oh God Erin, you said it PERFECTLY. That is so true, GUYS!!! We are the women speaking, and your attitudes have EVERYTHING to do with whether we want to open ourselves and be vulnerable with you or not. Many of us have histories of being either victimized or brainwashed in a hierarchical setting (uh, work, church, even families are traditionally patriarchal). Especially in a committed relationship, this holds true. Resentment can build when we are disrespected even in the most minor settings. If you do not show empathy, love, respect, compassion toward us as individuals (as opposed to thinking we are YOUR woman and it is our duty to turn you on and provide you with sex), then you are the one with the problem. Yes, relationships are half and half and takes two to tango, etc. But, it is never black and white. We are wired to be true to our intuition – we have a lodestar to guide us – you do not – you are wired a little more extrinsically. Your wife is a vested partner, and if you want her to want you, drop your expectations and show her what you want by treating her as you want to be treated. Accuse her of not wanting you, and you are the one with the problem. In fact, in that case, you are too blind to have an epiphany and create your own reality – if it sucks, blame yourself (speaking to you, Jeff, above). If you had a daughter and her boyfriend treated her the way you might treat your wife, you would be pissed!

        • Thank you, Maggie, doll. Yes. The daughter’s boyfriend analogy is an excellent one, by the way. For men that have kids, perhaps.

          And I do need to say, @wellokaythen, that – pretty much – relationships are paradoxical! That’s why they’re so effin tricky…sometimes. My husband and I discuss frequently the concept of out-pleasing each other. If that is your goal mostly every day, what FUN!! If I wake up every day thinking, what can I do for him to make his day amazing…. And he wakes up thinking the same thing?! That, dear, is called loving each other. Plain and simple. And in that kind of atmosphere, I am ALL about gettin’ it on. Just sayin. When you’ve got a woman who trusts you and appreciates you that much, you’ve possibly got more lovin’ than you could handle.

          A bit of a paradox here, though. If he puts you first, then there are limits to what you can do for him, so it’s not exactly anything.

        • @maggie…

          Much of what you’re saying is valid IF and ONLY IF the context is a long term relationship/and or marriage.

          There are loads of women (perhaps most) who have sex with men whom they do not find desirable as dating partners. The guy could be a liar and a degenerate. All she is seeking is good sex! The driver with these women is raw sexual attraction. It happens all day long in America.

          The thing I have discovered is that being sexually attractive, confident, and being perceived as a good lover by women is golden. All this other stuff is irrelevant.

          JMO.

        • wellokaythen says:

          So, what I’m hearing is that the man still needs to make the first move. He needs to put you first, and THEN you will be good to him. Why not be good to him first or good to him simultaneously? Why is he on the hook for proving himself first before you do?

          There is no such thing as purely unconditional love, at least not in healthy relationship. Purely unconditional means “no matter what you do to me, I will stay with you.”

          The ideal of “unconditional love” is at the heart of a lot of abusive, oppressive situations. No one should be aiming to give or get unconditional love.

        • FlyingKal says:

          Maggie:
          “Accuse her of not wanting you, and you are the one with the problem. In fact, in that case, you are too blind to have an epiphany and create your own reality – if it sucks, blame yourself ”

          Yet, you as a woman seem to expect to have a free card to just sit back and be the judge whether a man’s efforts makes him worthy of your love or not, or accusing him of not wanting YOU enough. Indeed, it’s not a 50-50 deal.

  37. ogwriter says:

    @Gint: Hey man what’s up? How have you been? Well, I trust. Honestly,I don’t quite undderstand what you mean in t6his piece.

    • Gint Aras says:

      Og, what’s shakin’? I don’t mean anything different from what I normally pick to publish. Just to provoke thought and discussion.

Trackbacks

  1. […] This piece from Good Men Project really piqued my attention, so I figured I’d share and see if you felt the same way.  The idea is that, while a lot of relationships end up lacking in sexual passion, it’s not exclusively the fault of the person who is seen as holding back or withholding sex. […]

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