Man up (mæn əp) v. : 1. to be strong, 2. to achieve your goal despite the obstacles, 3. to work through obstacles without complaining, 4. to grow up and behave maturely.
As a woman and a feminist I have a very specific perspective on the term ‘man up.’ It’s a highly gendered phrase, for one thing. The phrase implies that manhood is something that is achieved beyond simply being male. It also implies that certain characteristics, such as stoicism and strength, are masculine traits.
It’s also a phrase I’ve always been denied access to. As a woman, it is assumed that I am not capable of ‘manning up.’ What’s more, if I do exhibit characteristics usually associated with ‘manning up,’ I am perceived as behaving outside of the norm for my gender. Considering how highly western society values being able to ‘man up,’ this is problematic. Most jobs, for example, value someone who will get the job done regardless of whether they are ill or injured. We want employees who won’t let their personal lives affect their professional lives. Essentially, we want our employees to be able to ‘man up.’ So, as a woman in a job interview, I have to jump through that extra hoop and go that extra mile to prove that I am actually capable of all of these qualities. I have to exhibit enough characteristics that indicate I’m not like ‘most’ women, when it comes to my ability to ‘man up.’
Now, if you’re a man reading this, you may very well be frustrated by what I’m writing. You may be forming a comment in your mind right now that reads something like this: the term ‘man up’ puts undue pressure on men to remain stoic in even extremely difficult situations. It’s a phrase that tells men to deny their emotions, and that their actions are more important than what they are feeling. It also emphasizes our society’s assumption that men don’t have strong emotions, or at least not strong enough that they shouldn’t be quashed for the sake of finishing a task. It is also a phrase that can be used to imply that a man is not performing his gender well enough. To tell a man to ‘man up,’ is in essence telling him that in that moment he is not actually a man. Having access to the phrase ‘man up’ is actually quite a burden. Men aren’t just assumed to be capable or manning up, they are pressured into manning up, even when it’s detrimental to their well being.
If you were thinking of writing a comment like that, you’d be right. That is all true. Now if you’re a woman reading this, you may very well have read the above paragraph and thought, “That’s all well and good, but it still doesn’t take away from the way in which women are assumed to be incapable of ‘manning up.’” And if you’re thinking that, you’d be right too. Back to the men, “Alright, but that still doesn’t mean that being pressured to ‘man up’ is any less problematic.” Guess what, guys, you’re right too. ‘Round and ‘round and ‘round it goes, where it stops nobody knows.
This is where the zero-sum approach to gender issues often rears its ugly head, and the conversation often devolves into “women/men have it worse,” and record-breaking Oppression Olympics. But those sorts of arguments largely miss the point, which is that the term ‘man up’ is problematic and harmful to individuals in our society. Arguably it’s harmful to our society as a whole. So I say, let’s focus on figuring out how to get rid of that phrase entirely. Let’s focus on actually solving the problems with our gender system. To get metaphorical: let’s focus on fixing the forest, instead of arguing about which trees are worse.
So then what is the metaphorical forest in this issue of ‘manning up?’ As with so many social issues the focus should be on the systems that create and perpetuate the concept of ‘manning up.’ In this case, it’s only partly connected to our outdated gender norms. Our society has gendered a human behaviour that is not inherently tied to maleness or femaleness. This means that women who do prove their ability to ‘man up’ are perceived as being less feminine and womanly. On the other hand, men who don’t ‘man up’ are perceived as being less manly and masculine. If we took away the gendered aspect to this behaviour, it would become something that everyone had equal access to. It would be something that was judged on an individual basis, which really keeps in line with western culture’s emphasis on individuality.
However, even if we did somehow eliminate gender from the concept of ‘manning up,’ I question whether it’s really a trait worth valuing at all. Now the system we’re looking at is economic and work related. The way that capitalism has manifest in the west, particularly the U.S., results in placing a higher value on output than on the welfare of the employees. In effect, that’s what the term ‘manning up’ is asking people to do. The entire concept is borne out of an assumption that it is more important to suffer in silence and get the job done, than it is to work through negative emotions. It treats emotions as a luxury, and a not particularly useful luxury either.
When it comes to the concept of ‘manning up’ and the problems associated with it, gender is really only part of the equation. When we focus on which gender is affected worse, we end up completely missing the root causes of the idea. And if we fail to see the actual social systems in place that created ‘manning up,’ then we will be unable to truly change it.
See also: Grantland, ‘Man Up’ Is Bullshit by Ryan O’Hanlon.
—Photo credit: xinem/Flickr
For me “Manning Up” is processes of competing with other males to attract an excellent female mate in the areas of 1. Financially 2. Physically 3. Mentally 4. Spiritually. 5. Socially It says look at me, I am doing all the right things pick me ( To have a family with). Its taken me along time to accept this. Its the law of the Jungle. Were Feminists may stuggle is with is they too are competing for the best mates. Who are they competing with, other women. This is the real war women fight every day. Hair dye, High heels,… Read more »
I enjoyed the article & the whole conversation to & I must say I look at you a whole lot differently now “heather” at least you are willing to look at & give & take in a gender ideology based discussion in my opinion, without running or hiding behind ideology statements only, that takes a lot of courage, call it manning up :):) or whatever you have lot’s of it, & thank you again for the article miss.
“At least you are willing to look at & give & take in a gender ideology based discussion in my opinion, without running or hiding behind ideology statements only.”
Neil Degrasse Tyson (the physicist) has this quote that basically says that education is about teaching people how to think, not what to think, and I take that to heart. Just throwing that out there. 🙂
Also, thanks for your comment. 🙂
Great article, Heather!! In my experience, showing emotion is often akin to showing weakness. If you don’t let everything roll off you, you are are seen as being petty or weak.
There must be a balance. Without output or with insufficient output there is no revenue or insufficient revenue and therefore no or poor well being. That is true wherever printed and/or electronic currency is used.
Well and I’m not saying that the concept of ‘sucking it up’ has no place in society. I just think it’s a limited place. And valuing output is still a cultural construct. The idea that without sufficient output there is no revenue is only valid in a society that pays for output. If we had a society that had monetized, say, employee well being, then that’d make for an entirely different way of generating revenue. Now with globalization it’s not very likely that we adopt a system that doesn’t monetize output, so yeah a certain amount of “sucking it up”… Read more »
“And valuing output is still a cultural construct. The idea that without sufficient output there is no revenue is only valid in a society that pays for output.” All societies that are structured to trade goods and/or services for money or other goods and/or services pay for output. Well being is an individual value. Who (other than perhaps my family) would pay me for my well being, and why? Where would they get the money to do so? Further, many people find hard and what they feel to be worthwhile work to be a contributing factor to their well-being, even… Read more »
Good article and good debate in the comments. “man-up” is a perfectly good phrase, it’s a reminder to suck it up and focus on your objectives. But I have to say I’ve worked in a female dominated field and the female bosses I’ve encountered never cared a bit about the wellbeing of others, only the output. So maybe the genders aren’t so far apart.
” But I have to say I’ve worked in a female dominated field and the female bosses I’ve encountered never cared a bit about the wellbeing of others, only the output.”
Female-dominated jobs and markets don’t exist in a bubble, just as male-dominated jobs and markets don’t exist in a bubble. I’m not suggesting the reason that we place pressure on employees to ‘man-up’ is because the bosses are male, not at all. I was suggesting that the capitalist system we have (which men and women and everyone in-between all contribute to) places importance on output over well being.
Here is how I feel and it’s no reflection on the few feminists that I do see making an attempt to level the playing field for both genders. By virtue of its name alone, feminism has never and will never work for the benefit of men. I don’t care how feminism is painted, no one has yet shown me how anything that feminism has done, purposely came out to be for the benefit of men/boys. Dads taking on the role of primary care giver for his kids is no more then a byproduct that “happen” but it was most certainly… Read more »
“From what I’ve seen Heather, you appear to be more of a MRA then a feminist.”
Yeah, no. Masculist & feminist together, possibly, but not an MRA. Much too much of the MRA is quite socially conservative, which I’m not. I’m about as socially liberal as you can get, really, so not an MRA.
Other then that I’m going to stop this particular line of the conversation only because it’s sort of what I was discussing is so problematic in my article.
HeatherN “valuing output is still a cultural construct” I agree with you completely. But I’m sure that a system based on well-being would be as uphill as the comments. Imagine though a system where you could choose electronically exactly where your tax dollar goes every one of them. Institutions would appear and disappear based on popular choice. The military industrial complex would likely be cut back to 5 percent of what it is. Kids in Montreal would be representing their position to taxpayers rather than protesting.We would collaborate for support rather than compete for control.We would struggle for consensus among… Read more »
I didn’t “wrap it in feminism.” I was pointing at where all of these things intersect and intertwine. My position is as a feminist, and the first couple paragraphs are certainly from that position. The part where I mentioned the hypothetical comment by a hypothetical man who read the first couple paragraphs certainly fits into broad feminist ideas, and masculist too. The last bit, where I’m talking about how the concept of ‘manning up’ intersects with capitalism, isn’t necessarily a feminist idea. I’m taking the conversation away from gender, and feminism is about gender inequality. That’s a criticism of capitalism,… Read more »
HeatherN I won’t argue the difference between wrapped in and framed in. Why? I have read your article and the comments completely through three times. It is much more about context than trigger. The issue in and of itself extends beyond what you call feminist interpretive framework. The term “man up” is a phonetic derivative of a very old concept and lineage that long predates capitalism. Should you choose to even view the roots exploring the lineage would help. But it might require that you extend beyond the comfort of your interpretive framework. In using the term “wrapped in” I’m… Read more »
Just curious, how do you know much of the MRA is conservative? Is there actually a pile of sites that identify specifically as MRA? I haven’t seen any that flatout say MRA, but many members that could be mra or masculist across various sites?
If more feminists thought this way, we would not need to have this war.
IMO, “I am a feminist” when put into context in this forum, is no more then an attempt to redefine feminism to appear to be more forward thinking. I guess if feminists say it enough, it will become true? But as it’s been said in these forums, these are individuals and don’t represent the main stream. So I’m still confused as to why anyone would still maintain the label in any way shape or form. I can only speak for myself but when I see “feminist” … the flag is thrown and I become suspect of anything that’s said.
Believe me when I say I totally understand that flag going up (because its more justified that a lot of feminists realize or want to admit).
However let’s say for a moment that these are just individual feminists and don’t represent the mainstream. If anything what if they were finally able to get their numbers up and eventually represent the mainstream? Like Anthony says below if more of them were like HeatherN a lot of “gender war” nonsense would be settled.
Replace “feminist” with “MRA” and that’s how I feel a lot of the time. And…that sort of emphasizes my main point which is that going on about “if the other side would just be less confrontational” or “we just do have it worse,” is counter-productive. Because take a look at these comments, and most of them are people discussing (or flat out arguing) about whether men or women have it worse, and whether feminism is anti-male or not. How many of these comments are discussing how society can fix the problems with the phrase “man up?” Very few, and I’m… Read more »
Its all (or at least mostly) old wounds talking. Ive wondered myself how exactly we (and I mean everyone, on all sides of the gender discourse) can manage to address our wounds and allow for them to heal properly. I shared a post over at Womanist Musings a while back damn their the opposite of what’s happening here happened there. I made the mistake of saying that teaching boys a sexuality that includes being forceful with girls harms boys as well. You’d think I had declared that misogyny is not real or something and I even had someone femmplain to… Read more »
HeatherN Good comparison between the term “man up” and an employer. I stopped asking myself what the point of the term is. Clearly a tactic to humiliate, to take something away. With all the discussion surrounding it anyone using the term understands the purpose and they express their intent with its use. It certainly does objectify the person it is directed at. It simply says you are less than what I expect. I often find the very person using the term is the least capable of living up to it. It is more often an excuse used by dishonorable and… Read more »
I understand what you’re saying, except that feminism is not really all that similar to a religion. It’s not a belief system. It’s an academic field, an interpretive framework, and a set of political ideas, yes. But it’s not about belief…there is no element of faith or believing something without proof. And while some feminists do seek “moral and ethical authority,” feminist ideas themselves aren’t about seeking that.
“there is no element of faith or believing something without proof.”
There is no “proof” of many feminist ideas. They are often merely hypotheses. Hence, if they truly believe them, it is just as much an act of faith as belief in many religious tenets.
HeatherN To quote: “So, as a woman in a job interview, I have to jump through that extra hoop and go that extra mile to prove that I am actually capable of all of these qualities.” This is a curious statement and may in fact be contrary to the norm. At face value I can find no evidence or proof that “a woman has to jump through an extra hoop” regarding employment or job interviews. I base my supposition on a well known government program called affirmative action. Also in comparison many jobs will advertise for women or minorities, but… Read more »
I understand what you’re saying, except that feminism is not really all that similar to a religion. It’s not a belief system. It’s an academic field, an interpretive framework, and a set of political ideas, yes. But it’s not about belief…there is no element of faith or believing something without proof. And while some feminists do seek “moral and ethical authority,” feminist ideas themselves aren’t about seeking that. I disagree with every part of that. 1. Feminism is very much a belief system, and how much it works depends largely on how much you accept (have faith in) certain core… Read more »
So then, Marcus, would you say that all of the social sciences are actually belief systems? Anthropology and sociology are belief systems? Because that’s basically what you’re suggesting. Look, I’m not saying that the physical (natural, etc) sciences are exactly the same as the social sciences…there’s a reason they are largely lumped into those two categories and not just one big “sciences” category. However, the perceived objectivity of the natural sciences, and the perceived subjectivity of the social sciences is not nearly as simple as people often think. Social scientists don’t just come up with theories about how people behave… Read more »
HeatherN “Social scientists don’t just come up with theories about how people behave randomly from thin air, and they don’t just say things based on their own perspectives.” Actually feminist social scientists do exactly that. How else can you carry out a rape study and assign victim status to individuals who do not identify as victims. The Duluth Model of Domestic Violence bases its perspectives on the power and control wheel. The author of the model herself stated that her findings did not support a model in which men sought power and control but in effect were assigned it. That… Read more »
HeatherN Should you choose to go further regarding faith based feminist science I would suggest you review the facts surrounding Doctor Money and the boy with no penis. You will discover that the data offered by him was referenced by such academic acolytes as Raewyn Connell and the likes of Michael Kimmel. Further used to support feminist theory regarding nature and nurture. A corrupt doctrine used to disenfranchise young boys from their own gender. The individual that was the subject reference to Doctor Money’s data eventually committed suicide upon discovering what had been perpetrated on him. But feminist theory disregards… Read more »
I don’t believe feminism is a social science like anthropology or sociology. I think it is an ideology. That doesn’t render it immune to study, research, and debate, but I do think that on a spectrum running from hard science on one end to faith on the other, it lies even closer to the faith end than the other “soft” sciences you mentioned. Honestly, I don’t even know exactly what we’re arguing here because what you mean by “feminism” and what I mean by it could be wildly different. I’m talking about the kind of feminism I’ve encountered online over… Read more »
You just hit a nerve with me, Marcus, but sort of summarily dismissing what I said, you know? Anyway, the thing is, if you’re basing your analysis of feminism off of what you’ve seen on the internet for the past couple years, then you really haven’t read enough on it, Courtier’s Reply be damned. 😉 Look, people take all sorts of ideas and end up creating beliefs around them. I mean, people read all sorts of pop-psychology and pop-biology and pop-whatever-else and end up talking about those topics like a belief system. I treat a lot of online feminism as… Read more »
HeatherN, I often feel the exact same way that Marcus does, and I’d like to try and explain this a little bit better. For me personally, the issue has always been about falsifiability. In both “hard” sciences and many social sciences (and I’m thinking of economics, psychology, and those sociologists not in the critical or post secondary schools), a conclusion is only considered valid if it is falsifiable and has been tested. However, a great deal of feminism seems to be built upon unfalsifiable assumptions. There are definitions of patriarchy (and I’m thinking of anything that includes the phrase “root… Read more »
HeatherN I think we could agree that a statement is equal to forwarding an idea.A popular feminist statement or idea which does result in seeding a perception that is fairly common is; “Practically all wars in human history have been started by Men” Although it could be said that all wars are ended by men the choice of expression suggests a moral and ethical authority. While one is uniquely true in every circumstance the other is not. Equally if we say that all men are rapists we should and can include qualifiers. For example: if engaging in sex includes additional… Read more »
“As a woman and feminst”
Okay, stop. Stop right there. You guys have got to stop doing that. We all know you’re a feminst by now, you don’t have to make it a talking point in every article and comment you write.
All it really serves to do is set an undertone to your message that says “See? See? NAFALT!”
Just letting any reader know what my perspective is. There are plenty of people who might not be familiar with anything else I’ve written, or even familiar with The Good Men Project that might read this article.
I actually wasn’t trying to say that “not all feminists are like that,” but rather to say that actually, my position is a feminist position.
um, there is no such thing as a feminist position since “feminism is not a monolith”. your opinion is just your opinion, its not more relevant or important just because your a woman or a feminist.
This is where the nuance of language gets so interesting and the use of definite and indefinite pronouns becomes so important. There is such a thing as a feminist position. There isn’t such a thing as the feminist position, because as you say, feminism isn’t a monolith. I took up a feminist position…but there can certainly be feminist positions that disagree with me. And nowhere did I say my position is more important or relevant as a feminist or a woman. That’s not the point of acknowledging my position. I come from academia, and something that’s very important is explaining… Read more »
Eh its not like that thankfully. And goodness at least she is not one of those feminists with that presumptive attitude of “if you believe this then you’re a feminist whether you ID as such or not, and if you don’t ID as such the only reason you don’t is because you’re scared” or “if you’re not a feminist then it means you are against equality” or “my position is right because I’m a feminist”, etc…..
Well I’m derailing a bit, but heck it’s my article so I can derail if I want to. 😉 So about whether you’re actually a feminist whether you ID as a feminist or not…that’s one of those wicked interesting conundrums, because there are people out there who would ID as feminists if there wasn’t such stigma associated with the label. But setting those people aside, let’s focus on the idea of whether someone is something (political identity, social identity, etc) regardless of whether they ID as such. My general take on it is that I won’t call you a certain… Read more »
So about whether you’re actually a feminist whether you ID as a feminist or not…that’s one of those wicked interesting conundrums, because there are people out there who would ID as feminists if there wasn’t such stigma associated with the label. Not much of a conundrum if you look at the stigma itself. Some of the stigma is unfair. Some of the stigma is totally fair. And it doesn’t help that the whole stigma thing is sometimes just used as an excuse to not have to look at their own. Yeah it’s got nothing to do with how they shut… Read more »
Oi now, Danny, I didn’t say that. This is me you’re talking to. 🙂 I wasn’t referring to whether the stigma was fair or not, I was just saying it’s there. When a label has such stigma associated with it (whether some of it is warranted or not), it becomes undesirable to associate with that label, regardless of whether you actually agree with other people who take on that label or not. So there are people out there who hold feminist ideas, they just don’t like the term. Then it is a conundrum, because as someone who does embrace that… Read more »
So there are people out there who hold feminist ideas, they just don’t like the term. Then it is a conundrum, because as someone who does embrace that term I want to be like – oo what you just said is so totally feminism, admit it so that we can add another awesome person with that label.”
Why do they have to “admit it”?
I didn’t say “have to.” I was just trying to just explain what I think when someone who doesn’t identify as a feminist says something that is a feminist idea. That’s what I want them to do. And why do I want that? Well because the more people with good ideas who ID as feminist, the less stigmatized it will be…well hopefully.
Or, to put it more nefariously, I’m trying to build an army of radical centrists. Come to the dark side. 😉 lol
Why a desire for them to admit it then?
Or, to put it more nefariously, I’m trying to build an army of radical centrists. Come to the dark side. 😉 lol
Oh Heather Heather Heather.
Volatile Wildcards don’t pick sides. They might share some ideas with certain sides but we don’t actually pick them.
lolz, I was totally just kidding.
But to your question, why desire them to admit it? I tried to explain…cuz the more people who identify as a feminist and have good ideas, the less stigma is associated with them, hopefully.
Oh yeah I thought this had gone to light hearted already. I guess I should have used an emote.
(But I was a bit serious about the “want them to admit” part. Which I still have a small problem with your answer but oh well.)
Poe’s Law, eh. 😉 Alrighty…how abouts…it’s a desire of mine, and thus via kink culture, I’ll say that the root of that desire doesn’t matter. lol. 😀
About the whole “who has it worse” bit. I know this is hardly an original thought but I think one reason that this happens is because of a feeling that trying to “go deeper” is just a front for taking away from the specific gendered aspect. Let me use domestic violence for example. For a long time the discourse on DV has been centered female victims and how female victims were largely ignored. And make no mistake this was done in the context of how the fact that they were women was the majority (if not sole) reason they were… Read more »
Well said 🙂
Thanks.
Stopped reading after the first line. Yes, women can women-up too, it’s called being responsible rather than blaming others. However, you might need to reject feminism to accomplish that.
“Stopped reading after the first line.”
Ditto re: your comment.
Reject feminism why?
Because of feminism’s penchant for blaming other people and things, such as women’s studies concepts (e.g., the patriarchy, male privilege, rape culture, guy code, glass ceiling, wage gap, etc.)
“Women’s studies concepts” are actually more often really “gender studies concepts,” firstly. Also, all of the things you listed is not ‘blaming others’ but rather examining how social systems affect people. Patriarchy is a social system; privilege is a social system, etc. Every participant in society creates, and re-creates these systems with their actions.
If you’re interested in an updated look at some feminist ideas of power and institutions/social systems, I suggest checking out Michel Foucault. He’s perhaps a bit more queer theory than feminist, but it applies.
Note that I said blaming other people AND things. Then I gave examples of “things” they blame. I won’t argue the validity of their theories but they certainly do implicate those “things” as roadblocks to women’s achievement/progress/develpment/advancement in this or that area.
“Also, all of the things you listed is not ‘blaming others’ but rather examining how social systems affect people.”
They are also an unproven narrative like any other.
Hiya, just asking that you read the article before you comment on it. My point is that discussions that centre around this sort of attitude are actually counter-productive.
OK, how about “put on your big girl pannies?” How zat? That’s the female equivalent. The idea is the same: be strong, handle your business without crying, whining, or folding. There are times when we do need to man-up and women need to put on their big girl panties. Manning up (put on your big girl panties) doesn’t (shouldn’t) mean to harm yourself, unless it’s necessary in order to achieve a greater good, such as protecting others. Manning up doesn’t mean you are unreasonable, uncaring, careless, irrational, masochistic, or that you don’t/shouldn’t think through the long term implication of your… Read more »
@Eric Gaby … right on! Every time I read something like this I cringe. I have all the emotions anyone may have but when it comes to dealing with some issues, I put some emotions behind me and do what I have to do. My son-in-law (fireman) was a first responder to a horrendous murder scene of a teen girl. He still has night meres but when he arrived on the scene, he had no other option then to put his emotions to the side and do what he needed to do. I’m beginning to get the impression that men… Read more »
Yeah I’m about 5 days since my thyroid removal op and I can’t sit still, it’s sending me insane. Trying to find something to do that I don’t need to use my neck muscles too much for. Good luck with the stints, hope it all works well. Don’t forget to take a break when you need it though, although that is hard for some of us to do, sitting idle n all!
Glad to hear you both are recovering, first off. Hope it’s not too torturous being asked to take it easy…I understand feeling restless, for sure. As to my article, I’m not suggesting that men (or women) who, as individuals, perform “manning up” or “sucking it up” or whatever, is a bad thing. I understand that sometimes a person does have to put their shit aside and just work on getting something done (in some occupations more than others). What my article is about is the societal expectation that men can do this, and the societal expectation that women can’t (or… Read more »
I find it telling about feminism in general that you managed to take something of a pejorative solely against males as a slight toward you as a female. The term is strictly a slight of men who other self-styled alpha males feel don’t conform to their standard of manliness. I’ve never once, ever, seen it levied at a female so to find a way to make it about you just continues the ever present persecution complex inherent in feminism. It’s not unlike Hillary’s quote about how women are the primary victim of a man’s death in war. It’s amazing how,… Read more »
I am suspicious that perhaps you didn’t read my entire article? My point, at the end, is that going around and around about who is harmed most by what often doesn’t get us anywhere. My point was that we should look at how society affects people and then work to make it better.
I did read your article to completion and it negates nothing I’d typed. To begin with, as I said, a bend-back of who is actually demeaned by the lame phrase ‘man up’ is, in and of itself, a point to be addressed. Further, IF you truly feel “we should look at how society affects people and then work to make it better” is your one and only creed then why call yourself a feminist? The easy majority of feminists I’ve encountered (centrist and more advocating) hold that, “we should look at how society affects women….” full stop. It’s quite evident… Read more »
“Would you trust the White Nationalist Party if they declared it their goal to achieve equality for the races?”
Excellent comment.
I find the whole concept of “Man up” to be bothersome because it imposes on me an obligation to be something that I don’t find meaningful and which I feel is kind of grotesque and even violating when used against me. As if they want to impose within me a quality that is hard and unyielding and doesn’t flinch in the face of anything sentimental. It supposedly such a wonderful thing to be a man and have those qualities? Because hey, your so respected for those qualities right? Your also feared because of those very qualities and I don’t want… Read more »
First, I love that picture of Stephen Fry as your avatar. As for your comment…well it’s not wrong, but I think that focusing on that is sort of problematic. That’s what this article is about. You, as a man, feel obliged to be something you don’t find meaningful…I, as a woman, find it impossible to be recognized as someone who is capable of being that something that society finds meaningful. And what’s really important here is looking at why society finds that something to be meaningful, and whether that’s helpful or harmful to people in society. I think it’s harmful… Read more »
Thank you for the complement about my avatar. I think it is harmful to everyone as well. I think it is often the case that sexism toward one gender involves sexism toward another gender which is why I wrote about how a source of sexism toward both sexes is intertwined in the objectification of the body in yesterdays post. https://goodmenproject.com/sex-relationships/its-true-that-men-have-to-fall-harder-for-women-than-they-fall-for-us/comment-page-1/#comment-211262
The way that capitalism has manifest in the west, particularly the U.S., results in placing a higher value on output than on the welfare of the employees. Which of course is ultimately doomed to fail no matter how many “safe guards” one puts in place. Focus on output over employee welfare is bound to burn people out physically, mentally, and emotionally. There are “safe guards” in place to keep one continuing to work past breaking points. Power, status, more money, sex appeal, etc… Those things that motivate us suffer in silence for the sake of the job. The rewards are… Read more »
Yup and thanks. 🙂
Can you tell I’ve put some thought into this before?
(http://dannyscorneroftheuniverse.blogspot.com/2009/10/how-about-you-man-up-these-ok.html)
I hate the term man-up for some of the reasons you stated. The reason I’m commenting is because I disagree with the statement that feelings mean more than actions… That’s childish what one feels is only relevant to the person feeling… Nature, physics, the laws of thermal dynamics cannot be changed or affected by ones emotion you either deal with reality as it is or not it doesn’t matter how you feel about it because only ones action can bring about a result..Don’t get me wrong one should recognize and be in touch with his feelings because ultimately our desires… Read more »