A Facebook post about a father getting separated from his son by police causes Doug Zeigler to recall his experiences with parental bias.
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Last night a read a Facebook post by a father who had taken his son to a water park while his wife went out of town. While he was there, a woman called the police because she thought he looked “suspicious.” He was separated from his son, escorted out of the pool area and had to explain his relationship to his son. Fortunately for him and his son, a woman whose daughter was in his son’s class saw what was going on and vouched for him. This scenario angered me right off the bat. You know why? Because I too have experienced the suspecting eyes of others when I have taken my sons out by myself.
One experience I can distinctly remember. I was taking my boys to a public water spouts park and decided to bring our dog Zek with us. When we got there, a sign stated that dogs weren’t allowed in the park, so I had the boys go along the fence line of the park with me (while I remained outside the park). Then, they went in the water spouts while I watched them from about 15 feet away.
Here I stood, thin bearded, Alton Brown-esque hat on my head, and our pitbull hound mix on a leash, beaming as I watched my sons playing. But then, I started feeling an abundance of eyes on me. I looked around, and noticed each of the mothers’ eyes sweep away from me as soon as I made eye contact with them. Suddenly, I realized what was going on: they think I’m a lurker, someone who likes little kids and is taking too much glee in watching them. The disdain and discomfort wafting over to me was palpable. I was being monitored and analyzed through the lens of potentially being a pedophile. I was guilty before being innocent.
I felt the need to justify my existence there, as if I had to declare loudly “I am not a pedophile!” So, I called out to my sons by name and asked them if they were having fun. They both happily responded “Yeah, Dad!” and went back to playing as kids do.
The tension lessened immediately. I was not someone who was looking to harm their kids, I was just a dad. Yet, there were still suspicious glances cast to me the whole time I was there, despite my talking with my boys here and there as they frolicked. I still had to prove that I was not a degenerate. After the boys were done playing, we headed home. Now that I did not need to be on the mental offensive, I had the time to analyze the whole thing. And the more I did, the more I grew angry. Why the hell did I have to keep validating myself to this group of women? Women don’t have to deal with that. We see a woman with a child, we assume she’s the mother or at the very least a member of the kid’s family. But to see a man with kids… is it the norm to judge men as “creep” first and “dad” second?
Each time I take my kids to the playground, I’m conscious of the wary looks I get. While I am aware not every female thinks like this, it certainly appears to be the default. It’s frustrating to think that I can’t just be with my boys and not have doubt cast upon me. How can we effect a change in this viewpoint? What can we do collectively to alter this mindset? I’m not sure I have an answer. I simply wish I didn’t have to defend my dad-hood.
Phot0:Flicker/edenpictures
The way to solve this problem is to break down the old gender stereotype that parenting is a woman’s job. For all our progress, we are still so deeply entrenched in old-fashioned gender roles that some of us are creeped out by a man being an attentive parent.
I hate that you had to go through this and I understand why you are so angry about it… but as a new mom and knowing how the world is today, i can also understand the “questionable” looks. I am not trying to say judging you was the right thing to do but I find myself doing the same thing without even noticing that I am doing it. I am very cautious of the people around my child and I worry and unfortunately, distrust pretty much everyone that surrounds him that I don’t know, because that is what the world… Read more »
Kim nobody is saying that you should trust people suddenly out of the blue. But what (most) people are saying (mostly men to be frank) is not being a bigot, and harassing people with kids just because their men. A easy logical and quite morally/ethical right claim. And I sincerely wonder why some women complain about this fair claim.
This makes me sad. When I see a dad with his children, I think oh what a sweet dad bringing the kids out. I do pay attention to people just loitering about though, women and men.
What I see here are two sides that have equally important needs. It is important for people to maintain their own safety and the safety of those they love. But yes, it’s also important that we don’t make people feel like monsters for simply existing. How do we fulfill both side’s needs without making anyone feel alienated? That’s the real question. Both sides here have a legitimate need in this issue. The other day I took my dog to the park to play fetch near a playground. It was a small park. I’m a tiny blond with a big golden… Read more »
You asked me about the Schrodinger’s Rapist dilemma a long time ago, Erin, and I remembered that I never responded.
Here’s the simple solution – while rape as a problem can be challenged, women also need to stop being so afraid. You have that power. Recognise your mind’s biases for what they are. Recognise that the narrative on rape culture is often composed of very overhyped fear-mongering and is actually not helping you. It strikes me as something akin to a health scare, frankly.
Well said.
Rubbish and no empathy. Most women actually try to feel less afraid, but that is just too difficult. Most women do not feel motivated to feel less afraid. Most have experienced too much street harassment and attempts/attacks. Women have a right to fear rape and try their best to feel safe and protect their kids. Sometimes patters should be used. But you don’t even want to consider most of it a really important survival necessity, almost automatic. We already go it is not what women suffer that is your problem, in fact, you are cold approaching it. “Women need to… Read more »
Rubbish and no empathy. If empathy means coddling shoddy thinking, then colour me unempathetic. Most women actually try to feel less afraid, but that is just too difficult. Most women do not feel motivated to feel less afraid. Most have experienced too much street harassment and attempts/attacks. Women have a right to fear rape and try their best to feel safe and protect their kids. Sometimes patters should be used. It’s funny though how immediately one sees the flaws in those patterns – as there always is with fear-based bigotry. For example, strength has been referred to several times, but… Read more »
Oirish I agree, you have to be a idiot to justify bigotry. Bigotry cannot be justified and I see little difference between modern day bigots and yesterdays. Same people with new clothes. These kind of people actually they stand in the way of the eradication of patriarchy thus making them PART of the problem, not of solution.
Oirish, I don’t believe you totally read and retained anything I said. Do you know what the difference between my response to this topic and your response? It’s that I recognize that both sides have a valid need that needs to be addressed. You have completely dismissed the other half’s needs. You want your needs to be validated but you don’t want to validate anyone else’s needs if they are different from yours. That is not right. I will ask you again, because you completely ignored my question and you know what? My question was really a good one. How… Read more »
Oirish, I don’t believe you totally read and retained anything I said. Do you know what the difference between my response to this topic and your response? It’s that I recognize that both sides have a valid need that needs to be addressed. You have completely dismissed the other half’s needs. You want your needs to be validated but you don’t want to validate anyone else’s needs if they are different from yours. That is not right. Wrong. Refer to: “Here’s the simple solution – while rape as a problem can be challenged, women also need….” I am happy to… Read more »
“Wrong. Refer to: “Here’s the simple solution – while rape as a problem can be challenged, women also need….” Actually, that is *exactly* what I am referring to when I said that you do not recognize that both sides have a valid need. You completely blew of women’s concerns by first implying that there was a “simple solution” and then telling women to just stop being “so afraid”. You frankly don’t care about women worrying about their safety. You just want them to stop because it makes you feel bad. And yes, you can call it “biogtry” all you want.… Read more »
Actually, that is *exactly* what I am referring to when I said that you do not recognize that both sides have a valid need. You completely blew of women’s concerns by first implying that there was a “simple solution” and then telling women to just stop being “so afraid”. Not at all. I validated your concerns by providing a solution and acknowledging that this problem can be tackled from two directions instead of one – challenging rape culture and women’s reaction to it where it isn’t benefitting them. That you personally did not react well to the propsed solution is… Read more »
Erin, that is a really put analogy. You have the right to secure your home, hell a responsibility even. What you can’t do is call the cops on your neighbor for simply walking past your home.
The reality is, what goes on in your head is more a reflection of you than anything else. Saying that you felt the man was a threat because he was at the park is like a Rapist saying ”i thought she wanted it “. There is no difference.
You need to learn the difference between the real world and your perception of it.
“Not at all. I validated your concerns by providing a solution and acknowledging that this problem can be tackled from two directions instead of one – challenging rape culture and women’s reaction to it where it isn’t benefitting them.” I don’t see you validating anything but your own personal concerns. You want women to hear you out but you are alienating them in the process because of your dismissive and rude attitude. And you refuse to be open enough to hear anyone else out but yourself. You throw around the word “bigotry” like birds spit out sunflower seeds. You become… Read more »
Do you know WHY I’m being terse with you and people who think like you here, Erin? Have you figured it out yet? Because I don’t take kindly to bigotry. Nor do I give much of a toss about the feelings of bigots. Maybe you should stop being MORE THAN merely “rude” by treating all men encountered as a potential threat purely on the back of their gender. A few terse comments on the Internet is nothing compared to that. I’m not about to sit down meek and mild and respectful if that’s what you’re bringing in, and I don’t… Read more »
As a man, it can be difficult to realize what it is like for other people. Most of us are safe and good, but not all. And, there is no way for anyone to tell that just by looking at us. So Moms out there have to be careful. It is just too important. If I focus on how unfair it is of them to be cautious of me, it can ruin my day. But if I recognize the necessity of it, then I can get behind them in keeping all the kids safe, including mine. They might not get… Read more »
I know the feeling the author is expressing, and I’m always very grateful when one of my kids runs over to me to ask for help or to fetch a can of drink or something – I think “thanks kids for dispelling the illusion in the minds of any concerned onlookers that I’m sort of a sinister loner!” But I’ve come to the conclusion that the more you second-guess other people’s prejudiced opinions and let them effect you, the more suspicious you look, and no one should have to be responsible for the prejudices other people hold about them. If… Read more »
I would encourage all the very offended men on here to google a concept known as Schroedinger’s Rapist. This is a real concept in the world of ideas, and it is a reality of most females’ everyday lives. Until we know you are NOT a predator, our “prey” instincts compel us to assume you could be. It really is as simple as that. Instead of being mad at women for this very reasonable mindset, please turn your rage toward rape culture, where it belongs. For those of you claimning there is no actual, concrete way to help this situation —… Read more »
While I agree rape culture is a very real and serious problem, to make the onus to be put completely upon men, I’m afraid, is not a cooperative viewpoint. It further forces a divide between the sexes. We should work together to eradicate this, not just say “Hey, I’m this gender, and until you come completely over to my way of thinking, I’m not helping.” I want to help, but it needs to be both sides asserting this, not just men.
Jen, Schroedinger’s Rapist is a borrowed concept, not a scientific fact. And your perception of what someone is capable of doing to you does not give you license to systematically remove the rights of half our population. Women are more than capable of doing very bad things. Whether it’s a teacher giving a student a lap dance in front of an entire classroom, or Solange Knowles attaching Jay Z. Society trends to cut women too much slack for their actions in this feminized culture. In the aftermath of the Jay Z attack the media focused on what Jay Z must… Read more »
Did you know a child is almost twice as likely to be abused by their mother than their father? Or that a boy is two and a half times more likely to be abused by his mother than father? Did you know than current studies show that men are equally as likely to be physically abused by their partner as women?
But somehow we manage not to stereotype mothers as child abusers. In fact despite those numbers people STILL manage to stereotype fathers as child abusers.
Actually Mark, a person’s perception of what someone may be capable of doing, does infact give them the right to take the measures they feel they need to take to protect themselves short of physically violating them in some way first. That means that hurt feelings shouldn’t get in the way of someone taking measures to protect themselves. It was actually Ted Bundy, nice looking, non-threatening looking man that he was, who prayed on women’s sympathy to get them into a vulnerable position. He would pretend he had a broken arm and ask women for help before going in for… Read more »
Erin, you have the right and responsibility to protect yourself, absolutely. I encourage, respect and teach my kids the same. But, it does not give you the right to violate someone elses rights. Like call the cops on a man in the park, simply because you fear, without any evidence. The author did not fake a broken arm or ask anyone to get into his van. We had an alert at our school several years ago where 2 elementary school girls reported an attempted abduction. It turned out to be 2 of my employees signaling them to cross before they… Read more »
Marc, I have looked up reputable sources and dug into the issue which is why I know your numbers are skewed. You aren’t the first person I’ve heard say that women are more abusive then men toward their children. I’m sorry you were sexually abused. I can’t imagine how difficult that was on top of your Mom not believing you. But that doesn’t mean women are more abusive toward their children then men. You have not accounted for the fact that even today, women still remain the majority of the care givers and spend more time with children then men… Read more »
Erin, the numbers are not skewed they are a well documented fact. Your argument implies that, if given equal opportunity, men would be just as abusive as women towards children. The problem is, that is an assumption on your part. The fact remains that the single person in any child’s life most likely to harm them, is their mother. Period. You may not like it, and it certainly is not what the media or public service announcements portray, but it is fact. And, scientific research over the last decade indicated that the single biggest factor in determining a child’s long… Read more »
The funny things about facts Marc is that we all use facts to support our arguments even when we stand on opposites of the issue. There are any number of “facts” that exist that prove many contradictory points of views. The fact that it’s been reported statistically that girls and women suffer more sexual abuses then boys and men doesn’t necessarily mean girls and women are sexually abused more right? Or are you also willing to simply take that “fact” at face value and offer no further questioning of it? And no, it is not an assumption to factor in… Read more »
“Did you know a child is almost twice as likely to be abused by their mother than their father? Or that a boy is two and a half times more likely to be abused by his mother than father? Did you know than current studies show that men are equally as likely to be physically abused by their partner as women?”
*Sexually? o.o
I would encourage all the very offended men on here to google a concept known as Schroedinger’s Rapist. This is a real concept in the world of ideas, and it is a reality of most females’ everyday lives. Schridinger’s Rapist is a psuedo-scientific sounding idea that basically amounts to, “Because you’re a man you’re a potential rapist. As such I have the right to be scared of you to the point of irrationality and its your job to assuage that fear. That’s right I don’t have to challenge my sexist biases in the least bit its all on you.” Wrap… Read more »
Nice bigotry apologetics, Jen.
In more detail: I would encourage all the very offended men on here to google a concept known as Schroedinger’s Rapist. What makes you think we haven’t already heard of it and think it’s a crock of crap? This is a real concept in the world of ideas It is certainly an idea, yes, though this does not demonstrate much. and it is a reality of most females’ everyday lives. I certainly agree that many females think this way. This does not at all mean it has any relation to the actual state of reality whatsoever, of course. Few irrational… Read more »
“Few irrational fear defense are. They are most often overreactions.”
All fear is irrational. And once again, males lacking compassion. Fear of sexual violence is something very serious women in general face everyday, and wanting to feel prepared and alert is never an overreaction.
I lock my car door short after entering. If I could lock my body before leaving the house I would, not only at the sight of a stranger male or female.
You forget that men also face it everyday – the fact that they are unaware of it doesn’t change that risk, because your perception of risk very often has little to do with your actual risk – doubly so if fear is involved. Guess what we don’t see? The same kind of overreaction. Men are also more at risk than every other kind of violence than women. Guess what we don’t see? A bunch of sexist just-so stories about “assault culture”, and men going around claiming that half of the human race should be living in constant fear of violent… Read more »
Sorry, I did mean to add that at least you are consistently wary of both male and female strangers as implied by your last point. That is good – I have no issue with that. I try and be equal opportunities suspicious when I need to be so.
Jen, Schroedinger’s Rapist is a American idiocy (no offense) its not even feminism its actually pseudo feminism. Better to leave it where it belongs….in the trash can or along with the UFO, area 51 and moon landing hoax conspiracy theories. You have to choose if you want to be part of the problem or part of the solution? if you decide to be part of the problem, then carry on. If you decide for the solution, then you should abandon all kind of stupid useless bigotry. They dont do you any good. Instead you should fight this stupid prejudge, demanding… Read more »
I would encourage you to stop being an apologist for sexism and promoting rape culture yourself. Given that 1 in 6 boys are sexually abused by the age of 18, and a large percentage of perps are women, you are giving them a free pass and patting yourself on the back for it.
That is inexcusable.
Thanks for this! I’m a mom of a toddler girl. I also worked for a nonprofit that specialized in child abuse prevention and now work at one that specializes in adolescent sexual and reproductive health. This kind of stuff angers me to no end. We know from data and research that the “stranger danger” fear is so overblown. When kids are abused, the abuser is far more likely to be someone close – not the dad at the park. Overwhelmingly so. I love how much my husband wants to be engaged in our daughter’s life. His dad wasn’t around. I… Read more »
Thank you so much Liz! As a single father of two young girls I can’t tell you how much it means to hear your wonderful, genuine and intelligent perspective. Kids desperately need their dad’s. And I enjoy every moment with my daughters, even when they’re painting my toenails. But, I too have had to deal with my share of sexist comments and ill treatment from the uneducated.
The world needs more intelligent, compassionate people like you.
Thanks
If you don’t like imagining that people are looking down on you, try having the courts tell you you can’t see your own children more often than every other week, in spite of the fact that you have done nothing to deserve it except be sued for divorce by your spouse. Happens literally thousand of times every day. If it’s not bigotry made bigger than life, I don’t know what it is.
I would have sized you up as a possible threat. I also tell my daughter she isn’t allowed any boys including even my nephew in her room with the door closed. Why cause it’s my job to be protective. I have two girls and a step daughter all under ten. I teach them to use their gut and if something feels even a bit icky do what they need to to feel safe. I have gone over to talk to men at the water park who seem to be taking an overt interest in girls and most are happy that… Read more »
There’s a differense between being protective and paranoid.
You can’t treat all men like a potential threat. I mean.. even your own family? I feel sorry for your daughters and the unhealthy view of men you are teaching them.
Furthermore, I resent being suspected for anything just cause I’m a man. Shame on you!
My father would not allow me to play with my cousins alone, he was protective and scared that one of them would do something to me. I could not understand, I was young, but after some time I learned he was doing his best and what really should be done. One of them actually ended up abusing me.
If I’m with my child Catherine, and you come over to harass me, I’m gonna report your creepy self. By the way, your behavior, as described comes off like a stalker who targets men. As my predator was a female, I would likely report you to the police as a potential threat and ensure you were banned from that location in the future.
Harassing men in public with their children is just plain creepy Catherine. Stuff that!
Maybe the moms were just looking out to make sure the kids were alright. Nothing personal. We do it all the time…even looking at other moms askance sometimes till we know what’s up. It’s far better than ignoring everyone. Because the fact is, sometimes there ARE creepy guys hanging around kids. I like the idea of the village looking. It’s not personal. You can see the bigger picture here if you want. AND I can also empathize with how creeped out YOU must have felt, if you didn’t see the “wow! People are looking out for my kids” angle.
JaneB, I am both a father and a survivor of sexual violence by a WOMAN. If a woman is acting creepy by staring at me, following me around or otherwise making my presence with my child an unpleasant and potentially dangerous situation I reserve every right to have a GIGANTIC problem with you. Your post reveals an immense entitlement to lord over other families when you see a male with their child.
That is inexcusable and quite telling.
I caution against placing your thoughts into the minds of those who look at you. You do not know what they were thinking. Were they sizing you up? Probably. But so what? I size up everyone, male or female, young or old, everytime I walk out the door. I am actually a really trusting person and believe that there are more good than bad people in the world, but it would be foolish to walk through the world without knowing my surroundings and the potential threats that may exist around myself and my family. As said above, this was a… Read more »
Tracey, While you are correct in that I can’t know someone else’s mind, I think we can all agree that there are times when we feel things without any physical confirmation, like hairs standing on your neck, that are very real. As I said in the article, it was palpable. And I have to say that I highly doubt a woman standing in that position would have been scrutinized in the manner I was by as many folks as I was. Certainly some would have been suspicious of her, but not as much I was. While you may size every… Read more »
You caution against putting your thoughts into the minds of others but that is exactly what happens every time a woman makes an assumption that a man is dangerous or a predator. That is exactly what women do to men every day. Most men are not rapists or predators or dishonest. But we ask get painted with that brush by women like you.
*Vigilant, for their own safety, because some people (men can overpower women much easier) MAY be dangerous or a predator.
I have to agree that this isn’t the best example, simply because you were standing outside looking in. But I’m also certain that you could give us more examples, including times you were doing exactly what the moms were doing and still had to go out of your way to ‘prove’ yourself as a dad. My husband takes our 3 year old son out for adventures much more often than I do. I will have to ask him about his experiences. It seems that very hands-on dads are very common here in Portland though. The last time I took my… Read more »
I do not think this is a sexism issue, I think you were right to assert your justification for being there, not because of you are a man but because of your behaviour. Standing outside a fence with a dog breed that can be considered aggressive (that in itself a poor judgement) and looking into the water park is suspicious behaviour. And ANY parent, female OR male, should be on the look out especially when their kids are in swimming costumes in public and that doesn’t need defending.
Exactly.
No. This is not right! He as a human being in a free country, has the right to stand in a public place!
I admit I’m guilty of this. It’s not because I hate men, or because I think all men are perverts, or because I fail to recognize the awesomeness fathers playing with their kids. In fact the first thing I look for in a man at the playground is that he is clearly with a kid. As soon as I see that, I stop paying attention. If anything, then I’m just as happy to engage in parent talk with him as a random mom, grandparent, whatever. The reason I immediately go to suspicion is very simple: it’s the same reason I… Read more »
Kimberly, you need to admit that there is quite literally no way us normal, non-raping / pedophiliac men (read: the vast majority of men) can fix this fear you have. Those bad men are all of our enemies, but so long as you treat each of us men as if were inherently a rapist / pedo, by virtue of our sex, our concern for your well-being plummets. For instance, for the sake of society and comfort of others, I always cross the street to AVOID being on the same sidewalk as a woman, because I recognize she sees me as… Read more »
“For instance, for the sake of society and comfort of others, I always cross the street to AVOID being on the same sidewalk as a woman, because I recognize she sees me as a predator.” – I used to do that. Maybe I still do; I may even have done it in the last week. I’d read about it in some article back at the end of the eighties – “what men can do to help” or something. What I often found was no sooner had I crossed the road but she would cross the road in front of me.… Read more »
Seconded! You summed up exactly what I was thinking much more eloquently. I hate that I have to feel suspicious of every man I ever meet and take into consideration that almost every one of them could physically overpower me. I’m not proud that I automatically default to that prejudice, but if it’s a choice between my safety and your feeling at-home in all the public places, I’m afraid my safety has to win. It just has to. So, so many women get victimized because they were socialized to be too polite to speak out against what was happening to… Read more »
There’s a massive difference between being too polite to speak out about an abuse that happened, and so impolite as to anticipate an abuse that hasn’t, surely.
How is that impolite to be vigilant? Unless, of course, the person actually IS being impolite SOMEHOW while being vigilant. Most just try to take control and stay alert.
Jayneen and Kimberly, you took the words right out if my mouth. As a victim of rape by an adult when I was a teenager, I am unable to trust hardly anyone with my children. I know what it is to be preyed upon and it sickens me to think that some innocent child’s life could also be ruined like mine was. I am always watchful for lurking men AND women around any children. This goes far beyond some dads getting upset because others are making sure they aren’t pedophiles. Pedophilia is so prevalent, statistics may be 1 in 3… Read more »
Anonymous, I’m a rape survivor as well and my perp was a WOMAN. Please don’t make apologia for being a sexist bigot toward fathers in public. I am a survivor and if you treat me like garbage on the basis of what OTHER men and OTHER women have done, then you are not a very good person and clearly engaging in sexism and harassment. That is inexcusable, regardless of your own history. I don’t treat all women like predators, even though I’ve experienced it firsthand by female hands. Don’t do it to me and then offer a weak excuse. That… Read more »
Sorry Kimberly, but it’s discrimination and you are guilty. Somehow you again managed to turn it into mens fault. Take responsibility for your actions. BTW. As a young boy, I was raped by a female babysitter. It happens far more than you think but is seldom reported to the police. Even when we do tell our mothers! There are bad people in the world. And just as many of then are women as men. In fact if you look it up you’ll find that most perpetrators of child abuse are women. And boys are 2.5 times more likely to be… Read more »
Man, it must be awesome not be responsible for anything. “Yes, I’m prejudiced against you, but you MADE me this way!”
I truly hope the women defending this point of view of men are not the same women who complain when women take on the majority of child care duties
Wow!!! You VERY nicely summarized JUST what I had been explaining to my teenage son who had read this article and went on a defensive mode for all men. I tried to explain to him EXACTLY what you so eloquently said … but added that WHEN he becomes a dad, he will undoubtedly hold a VERY important & proud & vital role (caring for and protecting and raising his children) … but that women are taught to be alert and cautious and safety-minded for very good reason … that’s just the way it is.
Kimberly, to me it seems more a poor excuse to insist with your bigottism. Let it go, there is no good in being a bigot.
You seem to be saying that things will only change for men like Doug when you have no fear of men but given that your fear is not based on statistical likelihood then I see no reason why it would ever change. Do you have the same level fear about being in a car accident for example?
Fear of rape is too deep to compare to fear of being in a car accident. And I am sure most people take a lot of care when having to drive, they stay vigilant. Please American men, you can do better.
I’m not American.
Fear leads to irrational behaviour and prejudice as we have seen above. When the level of fear is not commensurate with the level of risk then we have bigotry.
Yes, like texting, talking on the cell, eating, putting make-up on and a whole bunch of other litanies. I ride a motorcycle and I’m appalled at what all those careful and vigilant drivers are doing who apparently are subconsciously trying to either kill me or themselves.
Ah, ok.
So it’s ok to be prejudiced against men if a few of them have done bad things to you.
Way to legitimise quite a lot of prejudice out there.
Alternatively, we could simply not pander to such thinking 🙂
Well stated view from the other side of this dilemma, Kimberly. And you are right, rape culture does play a huge role in this. That said, NO ONE likes to be discriminated against. Hence my view of this, I suppose.
Rape culture?
“From 1995 to 2010, the estimated annual rate of female rape or sexual assault victimizations declined 58%, from 5.0 victimizations per 1,000 females age 12 or older to 2.1 per 1,000.”
Female Victims of Sexual Violence, 1994-2010. Bureau of Justice Statistics. March 7, 2013
http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=4594
It’s an odd kind of rape culture that presides over a nearly two-thirds reduction in incidences — both reported and unreported — of female sexual assault over 20 years. Sounds more like an anti-rape culture to me.
Yes, a culture that still blames the victims many times, both females and males. A culture where many people do not know exactly what consent means.
No doubt. Still, do you think it’s sensible to consider that, according to the best available evidence rape is far less common today, when we are discussing the extent and influence of this rape culture? I do.
See this blog and wonder why we are suspicious. http://somesecrets.info/blog/2014/1/20/10-confronting-child-sexual-abuse-statistics With one in 3 girls and one in 6 boys sexually abused before their 18th birthday, why wouldn’t we be suspicious. Instead of being angry just be glad so many ‘women’ are looking our for your child and others. And by the way: Pedophiles can be any person in the community and from any social democratic. They can be single, married and have families of their own. Up to 95% of child sexual abusers are male (Bagley, 1995). 1/3 of reported offenses are committed by adolescents (Bagley, 1995) and increasingly… Read more »
With one in 6 Black men being incarcerated for a violent crime and with 1 in 9 Black people arrested, why wouldn’t we be suspicious. Instead of being angry just be glad so many “White People” are looking our for your property and others.
Gee, it sounds a tad like profiling when you dial in other terms for “Men” and “children”
No Jayneen, it is not okay for people to look at men suspiciously because of the crimes of the few. It is exactly this kind of backward thinking that must be overcome if we are to move towards equality.
It is 95% males for the simple reason that when a woman does it, it is not considered abuse, but doing the boy a favour. You cannot find what you exclude by definition. You’d do good to face up to your prejudice.
Plus women abusers are woefully underreported, but fact is women sexually abusing both underage males and females is gaining ground.
Firstly, that data is 19 years old, newer studies reveal what Mark has stated. On top of that, such statistics count repeat offenses as a new incident, leading to extra victims appearing. I suspect those rates you are brandying, are with regards to victimized children i.e. out of all victimized children, so and so have been sexually abused, not actually representing the entire population. You see the same thing with the whole forced prostitution thing in the States, where 100,000 kids were supposedly involved but only something like a 1000 were found of which only 10% were pimped kids. I’ll… Read more »
Exactly Chris. As a white person, male, I’ve had my share of the “look”, so I imagine what folks of any color get in addition. The stats as you say are old and have taken on mythic proportions. Fact is most sexual abuse by males is from family. Most sexual abuse by females are known, but from a party even further removed, like a teacher or coach. But the myth hangs on because the media keeps reporting those instances.
Jayneen is clearly spamming to promote her website on top of co-signing bigotry and sexism. She also gave female predators a free pass by assuming that all males should be considered perps first, and human beings second. This was a disgusting piece of sexist apologia by Jayneen.
Clearly the only solution to this is to make sure we have more overt female pedophiles, more women rapists, more women murderers, more creepy women in general. We must not stay silent and let the above be strictly the domain of men. I would happily job-share my hours as a lurker with a woman if it meant employment equality.
Ha! Nicely played with the snark there, Jon 🙂
Fortunately female pedophiles, rapists and murderers will never exist in the same proportions. What people have to understand is that it’s not because gender y or race x are responsible for the majority of z crime or conduct that it means MOST of them are like that.
My husband frequently takes our toddler-aged daughter out with him on errands and to the park. I’ll have to ask him if he’s ever encountered this kind of attitude and how he handles it. I have my own thoughts, but I’ll save them for another comment after I’ve heard his story, too. Thanks for a thought-provoking article!
I never give it a second thought when my husband takes our 4 kids to the park. Wow, now I have a new perspective on how it is for the father.
Yeah, and Melissa, the worst part is, NO ONE ‘has your back’!
Great Article!!!!
Wait until your separated and have to order the school photo’s.
I’m not a dad either, but I think this is a common fear for many men.
I think this article was very quick to generalize about women. The author thinks this is the “female” default? What evidence do you have of that assertion other than personal bias? Why would women subscribe to this prejudice but not men? Why single out women instead of writing about societal views on unaccompanied men in general?
Mark, if you reread the article Doug only refers to the women who were watching him, not women in general. However, this situation doesn’t arise so much when there is a mix of women and men – because there are other men there. If you’re a lone male though, not part of a couple… it can still happen.
I’m a 42 year old, 6′, bearded dad, so I can relate to this problem easily. Unfortunately.
What’s really annoying is that this prejudice isn’t even based in fact. Women are just as likely to carry out child abuse as men.
Because a man will usually be on a playground because he is a father, and being such will obviously be open to the idea that other men are fathers as well. The men who go on internet rants how e.g. they will never allow a male babysitter or a male kindergarten teacher to come anywhere near their child (they exist, no doubt about it, and in abundant numbers too), those men you will not find on a playground, I bet. They leave that work to their wives, what with having “conservative” family values. So when you are confronted by a… Read more »
I am a Dad of two now grown children. My daughter is 28, my son is a US Marine and 24…with a wife and SON… All through my childrens early years their Mother ( a bipolar alcoholic) was absent. I took my kids to soccer, little league, to the park, they both rode horses…I was the one taking them to lessons, to horse shows every Sunday… I went through what you are going through for all of those years…ESPECIALLY when I was alone with my young daughter. There is no justification… it is discrimination at it worst. A hard working,… Read more »
Over thinking it. Right. Wait until women approach you, demanding to know specifically which one of the children is yours. Then they laugh it off “oh great, you’re a dad!”
quite honestly, if someone questioned me when i was in the playground with my kids, i’d tell them to piss off and call the police if they’ve got a problem.
You can’t control the way people will react.
Then they would call the police, you would get into a lot of trouble, your child might be traumatized, and the woman who called them would not wait until the end of the proceedings, but just go home with a smug look, proud in the “knowledge” that she did a heroic thing. She might also go on to write a misguided post on some blog how she saw with her own eyes how the parks are filled with pedophile creeps these days, and them getting more impertinent too, and how we must be more vigilant about them and protect our… Read more »
I’m sorry, what would i get in trouble for? taking my daughter to a playground?
Being interviewed by the police is being in trouble in my book. Maybe even to be taken in for a few hours while they find somebody to vouch for you. If some officer has a really bad day he might also conclude that you looked at him in a funny way and punch you. Stranger things have happened.
and that’s when the real trouble would start, as i’d be taking action against the police
Police just can’t take you away because a bunch of women don’t like the look of you.
Me too, and I have done exactly that. As soon as I said it you could see them back off immediately. I even offered to call the police for them. People think what they want, most oftentimes wrong. So when you know the truth, ignore them as much as possible and when they’re morally superior enough to be rude call them on it.
i’ve found that trying to guess what other people are thinking is a sure fire way to make yourself angry. You’ve got absolutely no idea what these people were thinking, and there’s no possible way for you to know. You’ve projected what you think they are thinking onto them, and gotten angry about it. Just live your life.
Couldn’t agree more Nick. You think it’s rough with 2 sons? Try it with 3 Daughters. I just chose to ignore them. I mean, discrimination against men is quite common an accepted so there’s nothing you can really do about it so in a way it’s liberating. If anyone does come over an question your motives I would tell them “Yes, those are my children, WHY, YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT!