Encouraging princess culture—however innocently—contributes to the sexualization of girls. Men can be part of the solution to the ‘princess problem.’
This may surprise the readers of the Good Men Project Magazine, but we’re part of a problem: the princess problem.
More and more experts recognize that “princess culture” does great harm to girls. I don’t know how many GMPM readers also read Redbook, 
but it’s worth checking out this story: “Little Girls Gone Wild: Why Daughters Are Acting Too Sexy, Too Soon.” In it, Peggy Orenstein (the author of the new and important Cinderella Ate My Daughter: Dispatches From the Front Lines of the New Girlie-Girl Culture), makes the case that a lot of the prematurely sexy behavior and dress we’ve all noticed is actually rooted in something we think is very innocent: the world of princesses.
You may balk—what’s sexy about a little girl in a pink princess costume? But sexy, as it turns out, is not the same thing as sexualized. Sexualization is not just imposing sexuality on children before they’re ready and viewing girls as sexual objects, but also valuing a girl for her appearance over her other attributes. “Princesses are just a phase,” Orenstein writes, but they mark a girl’s “first foray into the mainstream culture. … And what was the first thing that culture told her about being a girl? Not that she was competent, strong, creative, or smart, but that every little girl wants—or should want—to be the Fairest of Them All.”
This may be true, but how is it our problem as men? Many—maybe even most of you who are reading this—don’t have daughters. A lot of you aren’t dads at all. Whether you think little girls dressed up as Snow White are cute or not, what does the problem Orenstein describes have to do with you?
Well, for starters almost every man has—or will have—a little girl in his life. If not a daughter then a niece, a little cousin, your buddy’s kid, your son’s friend from playgroup. And if you care about the well-being of these girls, this issue of princess culture and sexualization matters to you. The bad news is, you may be part of the problem; the good news is, you can be part of the solution.
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Thankfully, most men aren’t sexually attracted to prepubescent girls. But it doesn’t mean that we don’t have a very strong response when we see a 6-year-old dressed up as cute as can be. For men, complimenting older girls and women for their looks is often sexually charged and likely to get you in trouble. But as fathers, uncles, and others notice, little girls of princess age rarely have the same caution and suspicion about older men as their older sisters. Often transparent in their eagerness for attention and validation, they light up at praise. And no compliment is easier to give than “You’re so pretty.”
Five-year-olds in princess costumes are cute. But the problem is that the compliments we give as fathers, uncles, and coaches have an impact on the self-esteem of little girls. As they grow up, they realize quickly (certainly by age 8 or 9) that Cinderella costumes won’t cut it anymore. If they want to sustain the same level of attention that they had when they were adorable first-graders, they’re going to need to employ a different strategy: sexiness. And that sexiness gets our attention all over again.
Wait a minute, you’re thinking. I don’t leer at 10-year-olds in miniskirts. I don’t tell my niece that she’s hot. I wish girls would wait longer to be sexy! How am I part of this problem?
As Orenstein and others point out, little girls take their cues about what is desirable by looking at how boys and men respond to older girls and women. The father who lavishes adoration on “Daddy’s little princess” but ogles high-school cheerleaders is sending his daughter a clear message. The message is that the princess phase won’t last much longer, and if you want to grasp and hold adult male attention, you need to be sexy.
This sexiness has very little to do with sex, and everything to do with the craving for validation and attention. While all children want affirmation, princess culture teaches little girls to get that approval through their looks. Little girls learn quickly what “works” to elicit adoration from mom and dad, as well as from teachers, uncles, aunts, and other adults. Soon—much too soon—they notice that older girls and women get validation for a particular kind of dress, a particular kind of behavior. They watch their fathers’ eyes, they follow their uncles’ gaze. They listen to what these men they love say when they see “hot” young women on television or on the street. And they learn how to be from what they hear and see.
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This doesn’t mean that good dads shouldn’t let their daughters dress up as princesses. It doesn’t mean that good dads, good big brothers, and good uncles should never, ever tell a little girl that she looks “cute” or “beautiful.” It does mean that those good grown men need to make sure that they’re also giving her plenty of compliments that focus on her other qualities, like her intelligence, her kindness, or her athleticism. But something else matters just as much: how we look at and talk about other girls and women.
Too many men do everything they can to protect adored daughters, nieces, and little sisters—while making little attempt to disguise their longing for other young women who aren’t all that much older than the child they cherish. Girls who are raised to see compliments as currency quickly learn that if they want to keep their praise flowing in, they’ll need to do more to “earn” it. And too often, they learn exactly how to earn it from by listening to the words and following the eyes of the men they love and trust most.
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More From Our Special Marriage Section:
Even stellar relationships lose their spark over time; here are the ingredients of a lasting, fruitful partnership, and techniques for weathering the the stormy times: What Your Marriage Needs to Survive
When Tom Forrister transitioned from female to male, his same-sex marriage became a federally recognized, “traditional” marriage. The one constant was the bond he shared with his wife: My Exemplary, Everyday Marriage
As Gabi Coatsworth’s son’s bipolar disorder gave way to full-blown manic episodes, she watched her husband slip deeper into drink and detachment: Reading Between the Silences
For all the stories written by and for women on this issue—and there are few—men are more likely to be absent from the public dialogue about intentional childlessness. Why aren’t men’s stories also being heard? Two Is Enough
The nightmare of family court is enough to deter a guy from even thinking about tying the knot: Marriage: Just Don’t
If you’re married and using Internet porn regularly, your sex life—the one with your wife—is probably a lot less satisfying than it could be: How Porn Can Ruin Your Sex Life—and Your Marriage
Men are more promiscuous than women, but that doesn’t mean we should buy the cultural fallacy that men are programmed to cheat; the vast majority of men are happily, naturally monogamous: Are Men Natural-Born Cheaters?
Tom Matlack talks to married men to find out when they knew their wife was “the one”: She’s the One
Monogamy sounds like “monotony,” but it doesn’t have to be monotonous. Hugo Schwyzer explores how we can have the security—and the novelty—we desire in our relationships: Red-Hot Monogamy
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—Photo by Siti Saad/Flickr
About Hugo Schwyzer
I’m bothered by the tone of this article, because it doesn’t look at the big picture. The sexual revolution was fought by women and it’s mothers and other women who young girls try to emulate.
Yet, with all of the negative female role models in their lives, it’s fathers that make a significant contribution to daughters and give them self-esteem to avoid this superficial, materialistic and destructive lifestyle. Fathers need to be responsible, simply because mothers are failing miserably.
Men should simply knock out that pedestal and stop treating any woman like a princess.
*Personal responsibility*, it’s not just for men anymore.
Denis, the process is circular and self-perpetuating, Mothers of these girls saw this same thing when they were gilrs growing up. They train their daughters into it – take them to hannah Monatan shps, teach them how to tart themselves up – and they probably married men who are prone to this same kind of idolization. That’s the cycle. it’s an entire culture.
In fact it is not common to see this kind of behavior in supposedly grown women. It seems to be more of a problem in America than in Europe – I was amazed one time coming back to the States after three years in Germany to hear so many supposedly grown women talking in shrill, hyper-emotional voices like 13 year olds. Disgusting.
But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense to examine it a piece at a time as Hugo is doing. And as you point out, the more the mothers fail at breaking this cycle, or worse, actively contribute to it, the more imprtant it is for fathers to stop this kind of false validation. Focusing on men’s contribution to the cycle supports that.
One way is to respect and honor the pupation phase that a lot of kids, boys and girls, go through. A lot of kids go through a phase in adolescence where they withdraw socially and emotionally, where they dress as invisibly as possible, where they turn against all of this – not just the image crap, but also the chasing after popualrity and all that whole mess. They may get interested in intellectuil things, in the arts, especially music; or they may just get really withdrawn and moody. It’s trying on a parent who doesn’t recognize it for the very healthy development it can be. It should be honored and watched closely so it doesn’t go wrong, but it can be a very good thing.
Wow, unbelievable generalizations. Denis, have you thought about getting some counseling to deal with your personal issues and relationships rather than projecting them on everyone?
Some men have the courage to really know their daughters and support their development, including giving them a feeling of having the potential to become equal to the father as an adult.
You clearly are not capable of this and did not get what you needed as a child to do this – probably a deficit in the parenting by both your mother and your father. This is why I think you need counseling.
This comment is out of place. It is a reply to “Denis” and not to Hugo.
Sorry for any confusion.
Actually your comment is out of place for its arrogance and superficiality. Internet psychoanalysis just makes you look bitter and judgemental.
To Jim-
I don’t think so. You’re the one going on and on about a “pupation” phase – I’m just asking Denis to get counseling, not analyzing him. Perhaps you would benefit from counseling as well?
I don’t really care if I appear “bitter and judgmental” if I can get even one Denis-type man to get out of his grandiose self-pity pit, get his own childhood crap fixed with counseling or support groups or whatever, and deal with real life. Denis is a frequent poster on her and I get the sense that he has one or more children – I worry for them.
Yep, that’s pretty damn arrogant. Knock out that pedestal and teach girls that they have responsibilities in life.
I’m noticing a feminist slant of the site moderator.
“I don’t think so. You’re the one going on and on about a “pupation” phase — I’m just asking Denis to get counseling, not analyzing him. Perhaps you would benefit from counseling as well?”
I’m noticing a lot of projection in a certain commenter. I doubt counselling would do any good though.
there it is: the appeal to shame. congrats Denis, that means you won.
It doesn’t look at the whole picture because this is the good MEN project.
Feminism fought for women to be sexual, not sexualized. We have a far way to go.
I recommend reading Hugo’s post on “Sexy but not Sexual”
http://hugoschwyzer.net/2010/11/09/the-paris-paradox-how-sexualization-replaces-opportunity-with-obligation/
Actually this movie PROVES that feminism is responsible for the sexualization of young girls. And it’s the women themselves you admit to it: http://goo.gl/f4pXo
I was really reminded of this piece on Jezebel, and the really enlightening comments:
Daddy Issues: Does My Wabdering Eye Hurt My Daughters?
It’s not so much that dads should be held accountable for this, but rather that they should pay attention to how their atitudes about other women make their daughters feel, because the aggregate impact of certain feelings over a long period of time can turn in to attitudes, and then behaviours.
I was lucky enough to have a dad who told my I was smart, athletic, curious, tenacious, and funny–and largely because of his influence and support, I grew up that way (despite having an abusive mother!)
My dad is now the only parent I am in touch with, and he has never made me feel like my value is only in my looks. Conversely, some of my friends hate being at home because their own fathers or stepfathers leer at them now that they are 20-somethings, or openly leer at other women around them.
This. It sexualizes that relationship. Ick.
This comment stood out for me:
Good article.
I fought like hell as a child with my lawyer father to be taken seriously and noticed as a person with the potential to become his equal, and, indeed, did move on to go to a top ranked law school and become a corporate law partner (thanks in large part to the broader culture of the women’s movement and the men who supported it).
Luckily, he fought with me and did not dismiss me as a princess, although he did sometimes say “the women focus on the cultural things, the men on the serious things.” I ended up outdoing him in many ways, going to a higher ranked law school, earning more money, etc.
I think it’s not just complimenting your daughter’s efforts, intelligence, etc. that’s important but making her feel as though she has the potential to become your equal as an adult. This is helped with interacting with her, letting her tag along with you as you do things, empathizing with her and sharing analogous stories with her of your own childhood and development and your experience of these things. If you share your common humanity with your daughter and validate her humanity, she’ll stay out of princess trouble.
Just wanted to clarify – I don’t think it was good that my father’s only way of dealing with me was to fight with me, but it was better than treating me like a princess. It would have been much better if he had been emotionally available, down-to-Earth and able to relate to me from a place of knowing his own story and his own self.
Seriously, you need counseling. If you are so lacking in curiosity and personal character that you can’t imagine a better way to parent your daughter than just passively whining about the mother, you should never have had a child in the first place.
This comment is out of place. It is a reply to “Denis.”
Sorry for any confusion.
Daddy Issues?
Yes, Denis, I think you have them and it’s time to face up to them and not just blame mommy.
These are cheap shots FF. Just stop them. tehy make you look infantile, and that’s probably a disservice to you. It’s unfair to expect respectful argument out of a lawyer, but some self-respect would be an adequate substitute in a forum like this.
Actually Denis’ comment was apparently censored and so you can’t see the self-absorbed attack that I was responding to
Sharing my common humanity with my daughter will involve encouraging her to be something other a ruling class adjunct. No sense refraining from being one part of the problem only to be another.
Catallus-
Sharing your common humanity with your daughter causes “being another part of the problem”? How is that?
And here I thought lawyers could read at grade level. I said sharing my common humanity with her would involve encouraging her to be something other than a ruling class adjunct, which sounds to me like a succint definition of a coporate law partner. Dick and Cade from Henry VI, Part II were onto something.
As an adult woman who was very much a girlie-girl, I really value this article. I LOVED princesses, though in the 80′s the princess culture wasn’t the multi-million dollar industry it is now (I grew up with Sesame Street and Reading Rainbow, not Barbie cartoons). I loved dressing up and playing in my mom’s make-up, I hated sports (mostly because I wasn’t very good at them, and it provided another opportunity for my peers to mock me), and I don’t have one memory of my father telling me I was beautiful or pretty. My dad did a good job of encouraging me academically and otherwise, and starting taking me wilderness camping once I entered adolescence (which was one of best things you can ever do for a daughter, sister, niece, etc,–no mirrors no make-up, looks do matter, strength and wherewithal do). But once I really entered my teens, my dad starting making comments about my body. And not good ones. He kept telling me that if I continued to eat the way I did (which wasn’t bad, especially for a teenager) I would get fat. That my butt was looking big. That I should think about going to the gym and lose weight. And I will never, EVER, forget those comments. My father isn’t entirely responsible to the distorted body-image I had of myself, and my low self-esteem (which stemmed mostly from the misguided thoughts that I wasn’t “pretty” enough, that I was fat –at 120lbs!), but he certainly didn’t help.
Men, and fathers in particular, have a HUGE impact on the girls and women in their lives. I learned at a very young age that if I didn’t stay “young and pretty” that I wouldn’t get what I thought was what I wanted from men. And little girls learn from the way men treat their mothers, sisters, and other adult women. Nothing elicits compliments like meeting some physical ideal. Little girls notice when their fathers ogle other women. They find your hidden playboys. The point, I think, is to just be more thoughtful about how mens’ actions effect girls, even ones that aren’t directed at girls. Girls, and women, are not just valuable as aesthetic objects, and we (men and women) really need to make sure our daughters etc. know that they are more than their looks.
I can relate to your story about your father complaining about your weight. My father complained about mine when I was a very healthy, competitive swimmer at age 16, 5’8 and 130 lbs. I think it had more to do with my starting to take up psychological weight in the family as I was maturing and trying to find my own ground. He was a weak, petty man and could not deal with adult women (or adult men, for that matter).
One thing you said struck me “I hated sports (mostly because I wasn’t very good at them, and it provided another opportunity for my peers to mock me),” I think that being good at sports comes in part from having a father who supports you and connects with you in a human way in doing them. Men do this with their sons, and some do it with daughters. I wish more did it with daughters.
If your father wasn’t into sports (mine wasn’t either), it can be harder I suppose, but usually the dad has some kind of “outer world” interest he can share with his daughter (like it sounds like yours did with camping ).
Actually this movie PROVES that feminism is responsible for the sexualization of young girls. And it’s the women themselves you admit to it: http://goo.gl/f4pXo
Reading some of the men’s comment’s on this artcile and others from this site makes me want to be a lesbian for the first time in my life!
I don’t think that would be any easier, women can be mean.
Lesbians won’t put you on a pedestal and they’re definitely mean at twice the rate of DV as hetero couples.
Please do. More lesbians = less married men
Seriously, I love GMproject! I am a subscriber to a well-known feminist website (Jezebel) and I’ve been growing discontented with their “coverage” of feminist issues. And therefore, by extension, their definition of feminism. I don’t consider fighting back against college opinion pieces as good journalism, nor as a productive use of time—even if it is important that people address those mindsets.
I will say, they mentioned this particular book, but never went into depth about it like you guys have. I feel that men and women suffer from similar inflictions and addressing one means addressing both, as you have so eloquently done in this article. I appreciate the honest, as I see it, look at a problem and a possible solution. I think this post is a step in the right direction.
I like that men are not victims in this article. They are seen as the capable adults that they are; they can control themselves and do something in their own lives to help the issue and encourage the women and men in their lives to do the same. There is an absence of bitching and complaining in the article. It’s a level-headed, realistic discussion of an issue.
Having grown up at the forefront of what felt like the “princess problem” I know it had an effect on me. I think it influenced my views of men as well as myself negatively. I will say, I don’t feel my dad was a reason for this. He always treated me like a normal, genderless person. My mom, on the other hand, did not try to treat me as gender neutral and continues to try to mold me into a “lady” which is annoying. Maybe this is because of the culture in which she was raised, or in which her mom was raised. I know that it had to do with gender roles. This is true. It has to do with both men and women. It’s a cycle that eventually SOMEONE will have to break. Getting dads on board is a GREAT way to help break this cycle. Now, we just have to get some moms on board too.
There’s a lot that needs changing in our culture in respect to men. Good men need to make an impassioned surge forward to the front of the lines to stamp out all the terrible atrocities that are preventable on their end. There needs to be a movement of greater responsibility. I find it a little bit ironic that men do terrible things in the name of “control” and being “male” when those very acts are sometimes a product of the things men supposedly “cannot” control because it is their “nature”.
“find it a little bit ironic that men do terrible things in the name of “control” and being “male”
Is “being male” an illness?
Did you know that:
Felson & Outlaw, 2007 – THE CONTROL MOTIVE FOR MARITAL VIOLENCE
In general, our results are consistent with those of Stets and Hammond (2002) in showing that wives are more controlling than husbands in their current marriages. We also found that wives are more likely to be jealous and possessive.
There is this book called “Captivating” by John and Stasi Eldredge that talks about a woman’s desire to be beautiful. It doesn’t matter if the girl/woman is 5 or 105. Women have an innate feminine desire to be beautiful. And why shouldn’t we? Men are after all captivated by beauty. It’s not the desiring to be beautiful to a man, or the fact that men like beautiful women that is the problem. It’s that it gets so twisted in current culture that if you don’t conform to a playmate style of beauty, you aren’t considered to be as much as a woman as those unrealistic beauties spread out in a magazine.
I can only stress what a few other women posters have. It matters how you treat the women in your family just as much as how you treat the women not in your family. The young girls in your life will take this in. Girls and young women are deeply sensitive to have men treat them and precevie them. If an older male figure is oggling the cheerleaders on tv, or making comments about a female celebrity, a girl will NEVER forget this. Women just don’t forget these kind of things. They stay with us. I remember being a young teenager going out to dinner with my family and noticing for the first time how my own father flirted with a 20ish year old waitress. He thought he was cute. My mom didn’t make a big deal about it. But it was the first time I felt unsure of my father and it was the first time I questioned my respect for him. Here he was out with his family and indulging a mild flirtation with a young woman infront of his wife and kids. After that, I was 10 times more aware of how he reacted to other women. And since I was still learning about men at that age, I took it all in. You can’t expect respect for your daughters, gfs, wives and sisters if you as a man can’t give it to other men’s daughters, gfs, wives or sisters. This is a great article and I can’t stress enough that what men do matters. How they treat women matters.
Of course, how mothers treat themselves also matters. But that’s another topic. In this article, we are focusing on what men can do to be better leaders for the women and girls that love them and look up to them.
Fathers don’t buy Cosmo or drag their daughers to beauty pageants.
True and all the more reason to tell their daughters that beauty doesn’t last and is only skin deep in the first place.
I love how you’re always blaming women for everything. Men aren’t at fault for everything, either, but how about you objectively look at males and consider what this article is saying. The Good Men Project is not about women: it’s about men and everything about them–their flaws, triumphs, anything and everything.
But men and women are, to some extent, at fault for this culture. I mean, this article has truth to it. A friend of mine has a dad who looks at barely legal porn magazines, and he’s A LOT older than those 18 year olds in the magazines. She has a very warped opinion of him because of this. Luckily, she doesn’t buy into the princess culture, but she also doesn’t have a healthy view of men either because of this. Her mother had nothing to do with it. In fact, her mom might not even know her own husband looks at barely legal porn.
So don’t completely blame women for this culture. Just because you see those god awful pageants on television with overbearing mothers doesn’t mean women are all at fault for this culture. The media sensationalizes what it wants to sensationalize.
“I love how you’re always blaming women for everything. ‘
Everything? Everything? Would you liken to calm down, get a grip, and talk about the matter at hand?
1) Women’s vanity is women’s fault. End of. Mothers who model this kind of behavior are passing it along to thier daughters. Mothers who value theri own looks above thier abilty to bring home a salary, to excel academically, to create art, to work with people and bring them togeher – all those actual, concrete achievements – are modeling this kind of princess culture to thier daughters.
2) Mothers passing it along to their daughters are committing a form of child abuse.
3) Fathers who tolerate or enable the princess culture are committing a form of child abuse. They may very well be doing it against their wives’ wishes, who may have completely diffenrent and much healthier values. and also where fathers see this princess behavior in thier wives, or in society in general, they have a responsibility as parents to their daughters to denounce and ridicule it.
4) Parents who make looks into a measure of their children’s value as human bings are committing child abuse.
“Women’s vanity is women’s fault” .
Bullshit. Women want to be beautiful to please men. End of. If there were no men around, we’d be walking around in sweat pants and flannel.
“So don’t completely blame women for this culture.”
Damn straight. There are fathers who basically do this over their wives dead bodies.
In as much as most will not like this comment, the constant representation of men in the media as violent, rapists, misogynist, woman haters, sexual predators, abusive, pedophiles and incestuous perpetrators, patriarchal oppressors . Really doesn’t leave much of a relationship with daughters. Anyone who thinks daughters aren’t seeing this constant message in the media is just clueless. Daughters are sexualized at a younger age, I believe because they are searching out a bond with a male. I think these messages in the media alienate young girls from men and particularly their fathers. I don’t think there are very many women out there of any age that have a particularly good relationship with their father. I see very very few in my life. The conversation about the father daughter relationship and those bonds for the most part don’t even exist. Just look through this thread. I think most fathers are afraid to even have a relationship with their daughters. Accusations unfortunately can be quick and final.
Are you kidding? There are hordes of women and girls who have great relationships with their fathers. The plain fact is that the horrid tropes you mention have resilience only in a few places: women’s studies departments, the feminist blogosphere, the occasional editorial. Rush Limbaugh has made a mountain out of a molehill. Don’t buy into it. Most women who read a post by Amanda Marcotte think she needs professional help.
@Catullus
I have a 30 year old daughter, the strife began when her school starting sending home “street Smart” materials. The message was as mentioned in the previous comment. I sat in the living room one day overhearing my 9 year old daughter asking her mother if she thought I would rape her, while she was showing her mother this literature. Once that’s in your child’s mind and yours, there’s no going back. 21 years later, I don’t even speak to my daughter, haven’t for 5 years. I can’t even see my grandchildren, one of them I have never seen. They are indoctrinated right in primary school. Partners I have married were the same, didn’t like their fathers, didn’t want them around. I see it all the time.
Forgive me if I aver that I find your anecdote rather fishy and remind you that anecdotes are poor indications of wider reality. Any chance I can find some of this material and that it would say men are the problem because they’re men? I look at every scrap of paper my eight-year old receives and haven’t seen that doozy yet.
so because your daughter was given materials that inform her about the dangers of the larger world, you feel weird to the point where you cut her out of your life for 5 years? way to punish an innocent child. way to be a great adult. seems to me like YOU don’t want HER around.
This article and the self-serving bigotry is foists on men is ridiculous! First there is a almost world wide cultures wide preference for facial and physical attractiveness, It is based on biological hard wired preference for healthiness. The face has been analyzed by the ancient Greeks and still holds today. This artice is the Political Correctness Ideology that marginalizes males. It is more of the sane about those not endowed with good looks to wish for the adoration of the beautiful and that access in choice of mates.
If it’s a culture wide preference, and you say ‘almost,’ then it is not biological. If it were biological, every single culture would have a preference for this. Therefore, it is a culturally conditioned, not biologically conditioned, desire.
You feel marginalized because Hugo suggests men shouldn’t objectify women and further the sexualization of our daughters? How do you think women feel?
My cousin is a divorced father of a four year old daughter and a two year old son. The daughter is obsessed with princesses, iCarly (seriously) and other such nonsense. Who do you thinks instills and programs these things into her? Her mother and teenage half-sisters do. It completely disgusts her dad.
Ever seen one of those toddler beauty pageants? Is it more mothers or fathers entering their daughters into these pageants?
Anyone who thinks it is primarily men sexualizing young children obviously isn’t living in the real world.
Forweg, if you read the whole article you would see that it’s not neccasiarlry evil for little girls to want to dress up like princesses and play. Any girl/women from 5 – 105 wants to be feel beautiful. Because being beautiful = femininity. It’s no different then how ittle boys like to play cops and robbers. It’s how adults handle the play that matters. It’s how men talk about other women that aren’t in their family that also matters.
The focus of this article is how men affect the little girls in their lives that look up to them through their actions and comments towards other women and girls. While I have no doubt that mothers also do their own amount of contributing to negative beliefs about the importance of a girl’s looks, such as when mothers talk negative about their own bodies or other women’s bodies infront of their daughters, this article is choosing to focus on what men do that contribute to the sexualzation of little girls and how their little girls take in how the men they look up to treat and talk about women. And if you are honest, you should be able to admit that both men and women play their role. The focus on this article talking about the male side of it is no way insinutate that women don’t also play their part too. But to just highlight how men can be more aware of their own actions concerning the women and girls in their lives they care for.
This an important distinction. It’s fine as long as it’s for fun. It’s not fine if becomes a serous matter, a measure of anyone’s worth. It’s the same with success at sports, which is the equivalent trap spread before boys feet, and about as much expected.
True Jim. So how do we give girls the message that their looks are not the measure of their worth? In an age where there are probably more hyper-sexualized images of perfect women floating around then ever before. And where more men do tune into those images and lust/admire them? If you don’t want the little girls in your life to be sex objects, then you can’t treat other attractive women as sex objects.
“So how do we give girls the message that their looks are not the measure of their worth?”
Yeah. There’s always the Amy Chua approach. Just kidding.
thank you for posting I am single no children I am afraid what woman what society expects
of children
I completely agree with the statements of this article. It is extremely important to ensure that men treat the young women in their lives as whole people with a wide range of strengths.
But the article is also disingenous.
Ending “Princess Culture” means major changes by both men and women. Anyone who has ever seen a “Junior Miss Beauty Pageant” can tell immediately that it is not run by, or for, men.
If we seek a truly equal society, then we need to have equality in discourse. Within their writings, feminists rarely ever hold back messages to men about how subsets of men should modify their behavior. Why then, should the Good Men Project not point out how our society would benefit if a subset of women (those engaged in the beauty pageant industry) modify their behavior? When a group chooses to silence itself, we all suffer from their lack of input.
Just as feminists call on men to play a leading role in ending rape culture and street harrassment, why shouldn’t “Good Men” call on women to play a leading role in ending “Princess Culture”? Men no doubt have a supporting role to play (enunciated well by Hugo in the above article) but why no call for female leadership on this issue?
Good men don’t need to call on women to play a leading role in ending princess culture because they are already involved. They just tend to talk about it on women’s sites. And as this is a men’s site, talking about men’s roles and men’s issues, a conversation about the sexualization of young women in men’s lives is going to talk about how men can stop perpetuating the objectification of women.
I understand the point you are making, but from scanning the other comments, it doesn’t seem to be getting through.
At present we have two types of pro-equality media. Sites like this one, Hugo Schwyzer’s blog, etc., which are run primarily by men and have a large number of men that participate.
The other group is mostly run by female feminists and participation is based around women.
The sites run by feminists (Jezebel or Feministe, just off the top of my head), do not hesitate or pull punches when it comes to calling upon men to change their behavior. In many instances, this gives them credibility with their readers (and rightfully so).
Meanwhile, looking at some of the posts here, it’s clear that Hugo’s article is not capturing credibility, in large part because it only focuses on men. While society will unquestionably gain if men change their behavior with regard to princess culture, this point is lost on readers who cannot get past the part about focusing only on men.
If, instead, a page was taken from the playbook of feminist websites, and Hugo called upon women while also giving advice to men, it might go a long way towards bridging the credibility gap.
I don’t mean to nitpick this point, but feminist sites do not talk about what men need to do vs what women need to do because they are often talking about patriarchy, a social system, and institutionalized sexism, not men specifically. What they do do is talk about female EXPERIENCES, in the same way this blog is about men’s experiences.
Yes, sometimes feminist spaces often talk about experiences WITH men in say cases of rape or sexual assault or relationships. But the sexualization of young women is a social problem that has to do with patriarchy, and just as men’s experiences often dilute women’s only spaces, so does female experiences in a men’s only space. It has nothing to add here.
Respectfully, I think you are at best making a point about semantics.
Several other commenters have already cited Jezebel as a feminist space they regularly visit. Doing a quick google search, I was able to find this editorial comment (it was the first one that popped up on google):
“As Martin says, men need to acknowledge their privilege and work around it, rather than being obsessed with it.” (from this piece: http://jezebel.com/#!5401332/do-young-men-need-a-new-kind-of-masculinity )
This is unquestionably a call for men to alter their behavior in a given way, indeed a fundamental way as it calls for altering a worldview. Looking at the comments sections of various Jezebel pieces (and especially many comments promoted to their Comment-of-The-Day threads) the editorial staff also often promotes comments calling on men to alter their behavior, even if calls appear in editorial pieces less often.
As a result, it is clear that in at least one popular feminist space, it is considered perfectly acceptable to call on men to alter their behavior, and it is a source of credibility in that space.
Why then could calling on women in some manner not provide an equal source of credibility to male readers in this space?
Have you ever stopped to consider the term “good” men objectifies men?
To be clear, anyone who would reference me in that way has no credibility in my eyes. To me they are already engaged in a one sided perception. To begin with this term is insulting to some men. I find the insult comes from those willing to use it as a shaming tactic. I have determined to never be a “good” man, simply because I have no desire to be marginalized by thoughtless shallow and superficial people. But hey that’s me!
“perpetuating the objectification of women.” could you give some examples of this so I can relate to what your referring to. Its a popularized phrase that doesn’t hold much distinction for me.
I havent read everything and I am not going to but I hope to hell and back that this is not saying that just because I tell my 4 yo daughter that she is pretty that is going to make her feel some kind of way in the future? I hope I am reading this wrong. I
If the only compliment she ever hears from you is that she’s pretty, yes that is going to make her feel “some kind of way in the future”. Because logically when person A only ever compliments one thing about you one concludes that person A cares most about this one thing and that’s what he values about you. That’s just reasonable.
But assuming you compliment a lot of things about her then no no one is arguing or dreams of arguing that there’s anything wrong with telling your daughter she’s pretty.
If a four year old has no sexual identity why genderise them. I was very rough and tumble with my daughter, I still have the scars. She loved it. When my son was five we we’re in sears in the cosmetic section. He wanted the girl to put makeup on him, she did. It was hilarious, he walked around acting like a girl and I gave him pointers.
Telling me daughter she is a Princess at the age of 4 doesnt mean she is going to grow up to be a sexual diva. Why do so many people think that parents cant raise children and teach them lessons as they grow. If a young woman is a stripper now does that mean she sat on peoples laps growing.????
Maxim. Hustler. Playboy. Porn. Spike TV. Action movies. Video games.
Entirely female driven? Or are you blind to the objectification of women in male media?
This is exactly what this article is talking about – young women SEE what their fathers, brothers, and men around them look at and “desire.” Women internalize these images and project them onto their children as adults. This is not female vanity and doesn’t happen in a vacuum, they are a response to female objectification.
You cannot both sexualize women and then expect them to not equate that with their personal worth.
Where is this article blaming men? It’s about how you AS A MAN can help dismantle the sexualization of your daughters.
Look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjAVL5zFrlU&feature=player_embedded#at=41
and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uviJRuGTg0
We are all complicit. Now the question is if you care to help change it.
WRONG. it’s WOMEN who sexualize little girls: http://goo.gl/f4pXo
Are you implying that women are incapable of critical thought?
how about the massive popularity of underage (or “barely legal”) porn? when i was 14 i wasn’t like “damn, i wish some 35-year-old man really wanted to violently fuck me.”
Shit, Schwyzer’s writing here now? Well, get ready for a slew of “everything is a man’s fault” articles. Oh and be mindful of the 11th commandment “thou shalt never criticize a female”
@Paul
I agree with your comment.
‘Ms. magazine took us under their generous wing, calling the mag “what enlightened masculinity might look like in the 21st century’
A female CEO?
Hugo Schwyzer as columnist?
I doubt very much if this GOOD men PROJECT will offer any useful advice for men in the future.
This magazine has nothing to do with ‘men’, it is a pro-feminist publication.
It’s hardly a place where men can talk about openly about their problems.
Joe you know what’s ironic here, you’re the only person here that reduced women to the four-letter word “slut.” In fact, it rolled off your finger tips with ease. In not one of your posts did you refer to men in any sort of name calling fashion. And yet, you think women are the only problem. The things you say about women are just as important as how you treat women.
Little girls don’t directly need to see Playboy or Maxim to get the idea that their bodies and looks are important. They pick up on the things through media, through the way their fathers and brothers talk about other women. I have season tickets to the NY Jets. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been to a pro-sports game and when the cheerleaders came on the field, men with their families would say something about the cheerleaders. In front of their wives, little girls or sons. These comments where made light-heartened enough. I don’t think these men were trying to make their wives feel like crap. But they said them and their sons and little girls heard them. And just like little girls will learn the worth of their looks if men keep placing exceptional praise on it, little boys will learn how to treat girls by the comments their father’s make about other women. Men have to be examples to both their daughters and sons. This is NOT to demonize men. It’s only to show you that men are not perfect. And the things they say about women are important. This has nothing to do with the role that women play when it comes to the sexualization of young girls, and yes, women play their part too. Because this article deals with one important aspect. And if you can’t have a honest talk about the things men might do, without feeling threatened, we aren’t going to get very far. If you need to focus on the things women do, to even consider the things men might do, how are we going to get anywhere?
There are so many hyper-sexualized images of women out there, on billboards, on the tv, in music that is designed to appeal to younger girls with adult sexuality (Brittney Spears anyone?) . You can’t protect your daughters from the media messages they will get. But you can protect your daughters through how you treat and see other women. If you see other women as sex objects, then don’t be surprised if your daughter values herself based on being a sex object. Girls and women are keenly sensitive to how the men in their lives not only treat them, but how the men in their lives treat women outside their family. There is a really common theme with men in how they treat women directly in their family vs. how they treat women that could be possible sexual experiences (pretty much any woman outside teh family that he finds attractive). There is no man that doesn’t want a woman or girl he loves to be treated with respect. And yet? See an image or see a pretty woman walk by and where does the respect go? If you want the women in your family to be treated with respect, then you need to treat women outside your family with respect. You can’t have it both ways. If you want other men to treat the women you care about with respect, then you need to show respect for women outside your family. And referring to women as “sluts” proves something here that is filled with irony.
We’re saying that the term ‘slut’ itself is extremely derogatory.
It’s funny. My Jungian therapist, a woman, busted me for NOT paying enough “parasexual” attention to my daughter. She sait it was how men, including fathers, constellated women’s sexuality. Our sexual selves are as valuable as any other part. Part of why feminism is sometimes wrong (and sometimes Victorian) is that it doesn’t want to see this.
Sounds to me like you need a different therapist, ‘cuz that just sounds fucking weird (and gross).
Then again, I’ve always taken Jungian/Freudian stuff with a grain of salt, so…
“Please understand, the fact that the article does not address how women contribute to their own objectification, is in no way to insinuate that women don’t have a role. All it does is point out one piece of the puzzle in regards to men.”
That’s what i took away from it too, Erin.
Erin:
“At least I can say that I understand women play their own role. Why is it that you can’t admit that men play theirs as well? We all have responsibility here. And the article focusing on this issue does not diminish the other aspects.”
Okay, so where are the articles focusing on women’s contributions to the problem? Whenever this comes up there are three culprits: Men, the Media, and the Fashion Industry. All three are, inexplicably, laid at the feet of men, depsite the fact that the Fashion Industry-at least- has basically nothing to do with straight men, at all.
And even when somebody points the lens at women themselves, it’s always a small subset of women- like the mothers on that Toddlers and Tiaras show. Never women as a whole (like this piece focuses on men as a whole.)
So frankly, I’m still waiting for women to cop to their part in this. This article is not saying anything men (especially men under thirty) haven’t been hearing our entire lives. “It’s our fault, we’re pigs, anytime a woman has a problem a man is to blame, somewhere” We’ve had it drilled into our heads since the day we were born.
Women have self-esteem issues? Oh well. Get in line.
Conversations With My Daughter: (for what it’s worth)
Sarah: Dad there’s a boy at school that I really like, he doesn’t even know that I’m alive. I’m afraid I’ll never have a boyfriend, I feel ugly and unattractive.
Dad: Sarah, first of all, beauty, attractiveness and ugliness are what you experience, what you feel about what’s outside of you. If you feel this boy is beautiful those are your feelings not his. Seeing beauty takes effort. When someone sees your beauty, you will never know what they see, it’s their experience not yours.
Sarah: Dad I don’t really understand and it doesn’t help me to get him to notice me.
Dad: Oh, so your question is how do you get his attention. That’s very easy, Sarah. Why did you come to talk to me?
Sarah: Cause I know you will tell me.
Dad: Are you sure I will tell you the truth?
Sarah: Yes, that’s why I’m asking you.
Dad: So you trust me?
Sarah: Yes!
Dad: So when you trust me, you think what I tell you will help you and not hurt you!
Sarah: Yes, Dad!
Dad: Well Sarah, how did I get your attention? Why did you come to me?
Sarah: Cause you tell me stuff, it’s usually pretty good and I usually feel better after talking to you.
Dad: Bingo, Sar.
Sarah: I don’t get it, Dad.
Dad: Sar, I get your attention because you feel better after talking to me.
If you want his attention, focus on his feelings and let him feel good.
People love themselves, Sarah; let them. If you’re lucky they will let you love yourself. If they don’t, find someone who will.
Nice conversation
Though one wonders how you can shorten Sarah to Sar, given how Sarah is short as is.
I’m Sara, btw.
I’ve seen Pierre shortened to Peet, Robert to Bob, William to Billy (or Bill), Michel to Mich, Michael to Mike…but I never envisioned someone shortening my name, given how short and easy to pronounce it is.
Sara
Sarah
Sera
and Schala being the translation-from-Japanese of Sara, in a videogame (l and r problems in translation are common)
The latter is only harder to write. And the Sara without the h is harder to ‘say’ and have someone write it down correctly…Sara-no-h indeed. People ask for Schala, people assume for Sara.
I Completely disagree with this article. This is the type of thinking that has lead to the pussification of men in the US. If your daughter is 10 and is acting overtly sexual, that is not my fault, it is weak parenting. The fact that men find women to be sexually appealing and the desire women and girls have to be sexy is simply a happy coincidence for men. A woman’s desire to be sexy and appealing has little to do with men, and is completely and wholly driven by 1 thing. A woman’s ego. Women are driven to strange (to men) behavior in adorning themselves with jewelry, make up, and reavealing clothing because they like it and they want to be better than other women or fit in with certain women. If you are a man, walk up to the next hot woman you see and tell her what you think of her. No matter how attractive you are she will most likely get away from you. Women don’t necessarily give a crap about what men think of them. If you want little girls to stop trying to be sexy, then take a look at mom’s and sisters, tv and movie characters and fairytales. Quit being a weak parent and lay down some rules when it comes to inappropriate dress.
JMB: “If your daughter is 10 and is acting overtly sexual, that is not my fault, it is weak parenting.”
JMB, I don’t think the article even hinted that you would be responsible for how a grown woman decides to dress. All it said is that men should take responsibility for how they treat women in relation to the little girls that look up to them. Because those little girls will notice how their brothers, uncles and fathers choose to act and react to women. And that little girl isn’t going to care that the woman dressed sexy or have any concept of adult male sexuality. All she is going to see is how the man she looks up to is treating the woman. And if she sees that daddy likes the sexy girl on tv gyrating around, she is going to want to be like the sexy girl on TV gyrating around.
The fact that a woman makes the choice to dress sexually does not negate a man’s responsibility for his own actions. A woman dressing sexually doesn’t take away the responsibility to your own actions or reactions. Just as that woman is responsible for how *she* dresses, but is not responsible for your reaction; you are responsible for own set of actions. You’re actions are seperate from what a woman choices to do.
“The fact that men find women to be sexually appealing and the desire women and girls have to be sexy is simply a happy coincidence for men.”
Actually it’s a biological one. Men desire beautiful women and women desire to be beautiful. Why? Because both want a mate or to just mate. It’s not a happy coicidence.
“A woman’s desire to be sexy and appealing has little to do with men, and is completely and wholly driven by 1 thing. A woman’s ego.”
If you sincerely believe this you understand female sexuality very little.
The core reason women want to be sexually appealing, and yes sometimes to competitively beat out other women, is to hold the interest of the man she is interested in. Especially because men do infact like variety in women. This is an especially biological one why women are competitive for male attention against other women.
Women don’t get breast implants or shave themselves for other women. They do these things because men find them attractive.
“Women are driven to strange (to men) behavior in adorning themselves with jewelry, make up, and revealing clothing because they like it and they want to be better than other women or fit in with certain women.”
And if you were honest you would admit men like it too, when women take care of their appearance. If women didn’t put on pretty make up, clothes, pluck, shave, wax..etc etc, most men wouldn’t like it. It kind of sounds like you are persecuting women for liking to be beautiful. But maybe I am wrong, perhaps you like women better that don’t wear make up, dress nicely or groom.
“If you want little girls to stop trying to be sexy, then take a look at mom’s and sisters, tv and movie characters and fairytales. Quit being a weak parent and lay down some rules when it comes to inappropriate dress.”
Mom and sisters have responsibility to the problem as well. But if men don’t admit and take part in their own responsibilities, women can’t fix the problem on their own. And this article addressed what men can do. There is no need to find that offensive of be defensive about it.
You aren’t going to beat the desire for girls to like to be pretty or like fairy tales. Just as you arent going to beat out the need for boys to play at being the heros. (IE video games, playing cops nad robbers, sports). LIttle girls need both their mothers and fathers to set good examples and “laying dow some rules” isn’t going to cut it. Men need to lead by example. If you don’t want your daughters to be sex objects, then don’t treat other women like sex objects.
Just a thought…..
“women put on pretty make up, clothes, pluck, shave, wax..etc etc,all the plucking,”
did you ever consider that all that effort is to look young? that in fact older women are competing with younger women for male attention. When you compete you also create competitors. I happen to be a man that does not like makeup of any kind. But that’s me.
It’s about emulating youth and youth are competing also.
It’s a combination of factors, and youth plays its part. But it’s also about current trends, what we’ve been sold is attractive via what men like. Some is just based on biology and some trends are based on what media has sold us.
Pubic hair is a sign that a woman was sexually mature. It only became popular for women to shave their public hair when it was shown in porn. If it was all about youth, then the desire for shaven public hair would be to take away anything that signals sexual maturity and I don’t think that’s the case. I don’t think the popularity of smooth bits is due to wanting a pre-puberty look so much as it is letting media dictate what has become attractive.
Either way, women like to feel beautiful. This isn’t a bad or evil thing.