By encouraging women to wear ‘sexy’ costumes, Hugo Schwyzer writes, we’re selling both men and women short.
It’s a Halloween perennial, as predictable as the warnings about razor blades in candy apples, or endless reruns of Nightmare on Elm Street: outrage over sexy costumes for girls and women.
The latest tiresome iteration comes from Charlotte Allen, writing in the Los Angeles Times on Saturday. Allen, an editor at the Manhattan Institute, wonders why so many advocates for women and girls lament the sexualization of Halloween—and in almost the same breath, support the SlutWalk movement. Allen sees “irony” and “contradiction” here, missing the essential coherence of these two positions.
If you read the many excellent critiques of sexy costumes for girls and women (here’s one that Allen cites, and here’s another excellent one from Adios, Barbie), what you’ll notice is that those of us who advocate for girls aren’t primarily concerned that girls are showing too much skin. Rather, the problem lies in the compulsory sexualization that is so much a part of today’s Halloween celebrations for teens. A lot of us are more upset by the absence of options than by the absence of fabric; we know that pressuring girls to act sexy is not the same thing as encouraging them to develop a healthy, vibrant sexuality that they themselves own. I don’t have a problem with “sexy bar wench” costumes; I have a problem when those sorts of costumes are the only ones young women are expected or encouraged to wear.
SlutWalk, on the other hand, was about challenging all of us to recognize that sexual assault has nothing to do with what women wear. Whether in a miniskirt or a burqa, women have the right to expect men—not just in general, but every man—to exercise self-control. Women have the right to be publicly sexual (or, perhaps, to play awkwardly at being sexy, as some will do on Halloween) with the expectation that the justice system will not hold them complicit in their own victimization if they are assaulted.
But where Allen really falls down is in her staggeringly low opinion of men. She peddles the myth of male weakness shamelessly. It starts simply enough:
The reality is that men’s sexual responses are highly susceptible to visual stimuli, and women, who are also sexual beings, like to generate those stimuli by displaying as much of their attractive selves as social mores or their own personal moral codes permit.
That’s fine as far as it goes, though she gets it only half right: women are visual creatures too, though Allen’s Victorian prudery won’t cop to that now well-established truth. (Does Charlotte actually know any teen girls? Has she ever asked them if they check out hot guys—or other young women?)
But there’s nothing wrong with wanting to be wanted. There’s nothing wrong with inviting others to want you. Men are neither as simple nor as helpless in the face of desire as Allen (and the other purveyors of the male myth) would have us believe. We can be turned on and still not rape. We are—even when we’re filled to the brim with teenage testosterone—always capable of distinguishing between desire and action, between wanting and doing. That’s not just true for the few and the particularly virtuous. It’s true of all save the genuinely sociopathic.
It’s not too much to ask men and boys to “look, but don’t touch.” A young woman who wants to be noticed, even desired, without being assaulted isn’t making an unreasonable request. She’s not defying the facts of biology. She’s asking to be watched, appreciated, and left unharmed. Saying that she’s asking to be raped is like saying that a talented actor who portrays an unsympathetic villain particularly well on screen is asking to be attacked by an outraged member of the movie-going public. There’s a difference between a performance and an invitation, and it’s not that hard—really, it’s not—to distinguish the two.
Allen drops a bigger whopper in her next paragraph:
The other reality that feminists tend to deny is that rape and sexual desire are linked. Rape, in that view, is a purely political act of male dominance. This ignores the fact that the vast majority of rape victims are under age 30 — that is, when women are at their peak of desirability.
Um, Charlotte? First of all, younger women get raped because they are more vulnerable. Girls under 18 are at even greater risk of rape than women 25-29. Perhaps Allen believes that girls peak in desirability at 16? Because that’s when they peak in vulnerability to sexual assault. Indeed, 9 year-olds are more likely to be sexually violated than 29 year-olds. Rapists don’t rape based on uncontrollable lust—they rape based on a potent cocktail of rage, opportunity, social reinforced entitlement, and lust. They rape the ones who are easiest to rape, not the ones who turn them on most.
None of this means that a parent should feel compelled to allow a 13 year-old to dress up as a prostitute for Halloween. Parents and other concerned adults ought to remind girls that there’s a difference between playing at being sexy and the authentic expression of sexuality. Adults need to push hard for a greater number of options for girls, so that fewer of them feel pressured to perform “sexiness” every October 31. At the same time, responsible adults need to remind girls and boys that it’s OK to want to be wanted, and it’s OK to want. But it’s never OK to use your own desire as an excuse for hurting another person.
I’m troubled that younger women don’t have a greater selection of Halloween costumes. But I’m far more troubled by the lie that boys and men cannot exercise control when they see a “sexy nurse” on the street or at a party. The absence of choices sells our daughters short; the myth of male weakness does the same to our sons.
I’m struck by the word “sexualized” in use here, because it’s such a vague, passive use of language. Costumes are sexualized, young women are sexualized, Halloween is sexualized, etc. But, who is the active party in this? Who is doing the sexualizing? When one person “sexualizes” another, then what precisely is that person doing to the other? I would love to see an active sentence construction that says one person is doing something to another, like “he sexualized her.” That would call for some better definition and some real assignment of responsibility. At some point at some level someone has… Read more »
That does it. I’m moving to Brazil. Thaddeus, can I get a ride from the airport? : – )
I was so happy to read this article and then so disheartened to read so many of the comments. First of all, no one is saying teen girls or adult women are forced to wear “sexy” costumes or that there are no other options. It is, however, a known fact that the majority of *easy* to get options are the sexy ones. This means that subconsciously, girls are being taught that that’s normal. And yes, of course that’s because of supply and demand. So what? So there’s a demand for these type of costumes? We’re saying that the lack of… Read more »
I have a slight disagreement here. Raising a feminist son would not automatically mean he would never, ever commit rape. I’d say he would be far less likely to commit rape, but it’s no guarantee. Every parent has a moment where he or she thinks “that’s not how I raised you!” or “where did you get that from?” There is a small number of men with feminist mothers who have used parts of that experience to ingratiate themselves with women they want to exploit for decidedly anti-feminist purposes.
I also have to raise a bit of disagreement here.
It seems that the only time assumptions about feminism are a problem is when those assumptions are negative.
Say something like, “All feminists are angry man haters.” and you trigger an argument. Yes that generalization is wrong but people would point it out.
Say something like, “Feminists have better sex.” and for the most part only non-feminists will say something about it. I guess those feminists that rightly had a problem with being assumed to be man-haters don’t mind assumed be better at sex….
Well, to turn the tables, which point would you rather argue on? ” all non-feminists are angry women haters,” or, “non-feminists have better sex.”
Perhaps this is just me, but I’ve noticed that saying something negative about someone is more likely to cause argument then saying something positive about them.
But I am not quite sure what the feminists have better sex thing has to do with what wellokaythen said.
this! just right, I need to agree with that
My 25 year-old sister and I took my two little boys trick-or-treating last night in a very crowded neighborhood. There were so many teenaged girls in sexy costumes that all we had to do, by the twelfth or fifteenth middle schooler in a miniskirt and fishnets, was give one another a knowing gaze. But then a troupe of athletic boys, ages probably 15 to 17, flew by on skateboards in underwear – little briefs, to be specific – and nothing else. “It’s so cold out!” my sister said. “That’s just stupid, they’re going to get the flu,” I said. I’m… Read more »
These sexy halloween costumes are so over played. Wearing something sexy like this use to be something fun you could do for your boyfriend or husband in the privacy of your bedroom. And it was like a treat. But now that every girl from 9-45 wants to dress up in a “sexy” whatever for the whole world to see, it’s just not as fun anymore. Frankly, I want to know what is going on with women that they need to use Halloween as an excuse to express their sexuality in a way that is more about validation for their bodies… Read more »
OK, so… When dressing up sexy was just a thing some few people did, it was OK. Now that the masses are doing it, it’s become bad because it’s “affecting the little girls”? First of all, Erin, I didlike this rhetorical argument that what adults (or in this case late teens) are doing should be stopped or reigned in because it’s somehow “affecting” a notional, imaginary kid somewhere. Secondly, as I’ve pointed out twice already, your “sexy” halloween costumes are hardly sexy. Here in Brazil, we have a week long festival called “Carnaval” wherein everyone dresses up much more “sexy”… Read more »
Yes Thaddeus, two adults dressing up sexy in the privacy of their bedroom is completely different then women, most especially, underaged girls being mass marketed “sexy” outfits for Halloween for public viewership. 11 year olds dressing up in porno like costumes isn’t going to contribute to the health of society. Neither are “sexy” costumes about real sexual freedom and celebration of women. I’m glad that Brazil is such a wonderful place for you to live and that what people wear there is much more liberating, but that doesn’t do much to prove anything about American dynamics. It is you after… Read more »
Erin, you realize that that first sentence you wrote is basically the Islamic view on sexual modesty? You can be as naughty as you like in private, but you shouldn’t reveal anything in public…? Just saying. Also, who gets to decide what a “porno-like costume” is? From a Brazilian perspective, a coating of glitter on the tits and what we euphemistically call a “sex plug” is folkloric, not pornographic, as long as it’s accompanied by a samba soundtrack. I haven’t seen a single American halloween costume yet that I’d call pornographic. As I mentioned above, the photo of the girls… Read more »
Thaddeus, you’re not “just saying”. People don’t pull crap out of thin air by trying to relate it to a religion known for extremist views to “just say” something. There is absolutely nothing in my first sentence that refers to religion. Islamic, or otherwise. There is also nothing in my first sentence that is really all that outrageous to warrant a comparison to extremist view points found in some portions of Islamic religion. Further, considering your affinity to talk about anthropology and culture, you would think you would know there were many others religions in this world that promote modesty,… Read more »
“Are these boys not being ogled by people out here?”
Teenaged boys are every bit as sexually attractive as teenaged girls; of course they were being ogled.
“Why DON’T we care?”
Because as a society, we feel far less responsible for the dignity and well-being of male children than we do female children. Because of this boyhood is far more treacherous and traumatic than girlhood. Since they are less protected by society, boys become more calloused in response to mistreatment, and then we harangue them for being taciturn and aloof.
I do not understand why 21st century journos like Hugo think women need or want protection. If they wail that they are victimised then just point them to their choices. Being ADULT means taking responsibility for what you decide to do.
Women are not, nor should they be, a protected gender other than through their own efforts.
Because victimhood gives you a permanent license to complain and blame all your problems on everyone but yourself.
More than a few radical and gender feminists have embraced female-victimhood as the default status of all women, and harshly criticize any woman who dares to disagree. Ironic considering that feminism is supposed to be about respecting women’s CHOICES.
It may be anecdotal, TQ, but I feel incredibly responsible for protecting the innocence and dignity of my boys, as well as their sensitivity. Most of my mom-friends are like this. Granted, we live in a VERY liberal area, very highly educated, so I’m not getting an accurate cross-section of society.
I just wish more people would have asked themselves WHY it was okay for the water polo boys to show off their perfect, nubile young bodies but not okay for the girls of the same age…
Or maybe, rather, why it was okay for both?
“It may be anecdotal, TQ, but I feel incredibly responsible for protecting the innocence and dignity of my boys, as well as their sensitivity.” This is contradicted by the fact that you just said that you felt horrified at the nudity of the teen girls, but didn’t in response to the much greater nudity of the teen boys. If you cared about both genders equally, you would have been horrified by both. “I just wish more people would have asked themselves WHY it was okay for the water polo boys to show off their perfect, nubile young bodies but not… Read more »
Allen suggests men are insatiable, but she totally misses something that most women would tell you about men: it’s constantly surprising what men find sexy. Most women at one point in their lives are amazed at something that a man finds attractive. “Seriously, sweatpants and a ponytail is all it takes?” You can’t put the responsibility on women because they “dress slutty,” when men could find just about anything “slutty.” Women have been assaulted who were wearing every kind of outfit imaginable. You can’t blame the victim, and you especially can’t blame the victim when there is really is no… Read more »
Good lord, if I still had a stomach like those girls I’d show it off, too.
Wish I’d EVER had a stomach like that!! 🙂
I don’t see these costumes as a major symptom of a giant problem, but I can’t help but notice that there are some pretty clear gender differences. Not necessarily a horrible double standard, but some clear differences. Anecdotal impression in the U.S.: young men’s costumes today seem to involve wearing more than you usually do, while young women’s costumes generally involve wearing less than usual. This is kind of surprising in places where late October is cold and windy. Which makes me wonder if there isn’t some kind of seasonal phenomenon going on here – Halloween has turned into the… Read more »
I just love your writing.
You’ll have to forgive some of the Northern folks – a parka showing too much neck can be viewed as slutty….
Where do young teenager people get the nerve to explore with their sexuality?
Everyone else spends the next 50 years covering it all up. I wish they would just fall in line and stop being so young!
I’m from up North originally and find parkas very sexy! Neck or no neck. :o)
I’m still trying to figure out why people seem to think that the girls in the photo above are “slutty”. Again, coming to Rio de Janeiro would probably make you all feel that you’ve dropped into one big brothel. Those clothes up there are everyday wear here.
I’m just pointing this out because “slutty” is hugely contexual and yet so many commentators seem to think it’s some sort of absolute trait.
One thing that comes to mind is that more and more people don’t sew. And yes, that used to be a traditionally woman focused job, but it’s not like men couldn’t learn in the past. Parents sewed all kinds of costumes, yes? And now, you go and buy them at places like Target or Spirit Halloween. And what I see in those stores are “evil” costumes, like Scream*** masks, or Jason or Freddy Krueger, “adventure” costumes like Superman or Buzz Lightyear, and all of those costumes are in some way related to marketing for pop culture images. Or for girls… Read more »
I would totally go as Dory! Just keep swimming, just keep swimming…and then do whale speak. Hahaha
Also, if the idea of a “Slutwalk” is to say that a woman shouldn’t be censored in fashion because there are rapists out there, that sounds like a good idea. But, what about public decency? Understand I am not talking about rape or a woman’s right to dress “sexy” or “slutty” but every individual’s responsibility to public decency. I think people have a tendency to take it too far to the point where an individual, while they are standing up for their rights and ability to dress how they see fit, start heading down a road of stupidity. I mean… Read more »
I’m in London. Most people here would consider a bikini totally appropriate attire for the beach, or maybe the park on a hot day. Similarly, every time the temp goes over 23C I am subjected to a parade of topless men in the streets, in shops and in other public places. I don’t believe the slutwalkers wore less than a bikini. So are they really going “too far”? Is wearing a bra and skirt, surrounded by a clearly marked protest, really “stupidity”? The point of slutwalk is: These women are wearing ‘slutty’ clothes, and the men all around them are… Read more »
I really like this article a lot. I have not yet read the links to the articles that are referenced. I do not however agree on “the lack of choices” that girls have for costumes and the “pressure” that girls face to dress sexy. I understand the power of social pressure, but have grown extremely exhausted of these reasons given for why girls/women do the things they do. There are just as many choices for costumes out there for females as there are for men, in fact, I have seen so many women have fun dressing up as male characters… Read more »
The trouble isn’t in the costumes for women, but the costumes for teen girls available. Have you ACTUALLY gone out and looked at the costumes for teen girls? They’re all sexualized. Making a costume can be just as expensive as buying one, and not all of us can sew.
“Have you ACTUALLY gone out and looked at the costumes for teen girls?”
Yes.
“They’re all sexualized.”
ALL? What are you talking about? That’s not even close to factual.
Do yourself a favor. Take 3 minutes and do a Google search. Hundreds of options. Literally. Maybe even thousands.
Now I’m not sure why you’ve gone out and looked at costumes for teen girls, but yes, most of them are sexualized, and that is factual. And maybe some don’t want to order a costume online, and a lot of people don’t sew.
Sarah,
I see where you’re coming from… but have a think, and then make a costume, example below – all much easier to find then an unsexy costume for a teen girl; maybe for next year!
The Corps Bride:
1 pack of face paints
1 one white dress,
1 veil
add dirt/ and rip to taste…
nothing sexy going on – 1 cool costume.
done…
“I’m troubled that younger women don’t have a greater selection of Halloween costumes.” According to what costume expert? Young women can wear whatever they want. Nobody holds a gun to their head forcing them to wear something not of their choosing. They have as many options as they wish. I am troubled that some people think that the only costumes available for women are sexy ones. I have enough respect for young women’s intelligence to believe that they can make their own informed choices, and can even make their own costumes if they so wish. “I’m far… Read more »
“According to what costume expert?”
Have you seen Mean Girls?!
Actually, I have. The moral is: allowing yourself to be a puppet of other kids (especially means one) is dumb and self-defeating.
I refuse to buy into the jaded primes that purchasing a modest youthful hollowness costume is impossible. I’ve already looked at the supermarket sales circular full of adorable outfits all genders 3&up
If your child dresses up like a “….” then maybe she wants to dress up like “….”.
I’m concerned at the frequency of which we choose to absolve young women from the responsibility of Policing their own actions.
Adorable outfits for 3 year olds can easily turn into slutty outfits for 16 year olds. When it comes to grown adult women, they are responsible for how they want to dress. When it comes to young women that are just starting to figure out their sexuality and this new body they are still developing, it’s a different matter. They are being sold an image about themselves that offers a promise. The promise that they can be “liked” if they look pretty enough. I remember being that age. I wore things not because I wanted to be some slutty pornish… Read more »
I more incline to believe that young girls dress a certain war for the same reasons that a young boy might ware a tank top in 40 degree weather. Are men the only valid reason that yong people show off their comercial appeal? No!
Will Men and Only Men Get B
(Correction)..Will men Get blamed.. yes!
And what reason does a young boy where a tank top in 40 degree weather? I certainly don’t think that men were the only valid reason that young people dress to display themselves. I do think men overly sexualize women and girls to the point that sexuality because this sufficating thing and not something fun like it should be. I’m just pointing out that young girls in middle and high school are still doing a lot of growing up and they certainly don’t understand things on the same level as the people who are marketing these outfits to them. And… Read more »
Hugo, It’s Halloween. We’re all free to dress up as whatever we want. Yes, a lot of women CHOOSE to wear slutty outfits. So be it. That’s their CHOICE. It is VOLUNTARY. I know the added capitalization is annoying, but it seems to be necessary as this is a recurring theme. We can buy costumes or make them. Halloween is a night to be someone else. I used to dress up as a professional baseball player. As I got older I went as a killer clown. These women want to dress sexy, perhaps because it’s one of only a handful… Read more »
You hit the nail on the head with why some women want to dress sexy these days – that “it’s one of only a handful of opportunities to do so, to get out of their comfort zone on a night where they feel less inhibitions or judgement for doing so.” Being a young married professional woman, “sexy” doesn’t enter my day-to-day wardrobe very often. Even then, I usually only dress sexy for my husband, not for the general public to appreciate. So for me, it’s REALLY fun to step out of my typical role and the clothes that come with… Read more »
5-inch stilettos just help you hobble instead of run. Glad you like them, but let’s not forget they work better for sex rather than defense.
“women have a responsibility to know how to defend themselves in a situation, any situation, where they feel threatened, no matter what they’re wearing.” So if a man with a gun assaults me, that’s my responsibility because I should have had a kevlar dress on? Or, if a man is too big for me to overpower, as most men are, even though I lift weights four times a week, that’s my fault too? You say women should “be prepared to defend themselves”. It reads to me, that you’re implying some vistims ‘let’ themselves be raped. Like they’re saying “Oh dear,… Read more »
Once again, North American debates about sex and male sexuality devolve into diodeterminism. Hugo’s completely right in situating Allen as some sort of neo-Victorian prude, for she maintains a great Victorian tradition: trying to explain human behavior by recourse to oddball theories about how out body is the ultimate root of all of our social behavior.
Give us all a break. No one is forcing these girls to wear “sexy” outfits. They could easily find non-sexy alternatives if they wanted. Would you actually allow women and girls the possibility of personhood, instead of compulsively regarding them as victims?
“Sexy” Halloween costumes are seen by 99% of the sane population as silly and only mildly risque. That translates to fun for most women who wear them. No one actually finds them all that sexy.
Correct.
It certainly makes me understand better why North Americans blow their circuits at Carnaval here in Brazil. The clothes most of those girls are wearing are similar to things I see everyday in the classroom (maybe not so much exposed midriff, but still..). DEFINITELY on the street.
If that’s “sexy”, you folks have a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go to wear you truly need to worry about being “irresistable”.
“They could easily find non-sexy alternatives if they wanted.” This comment alone shows how little you know about the issue. If you walk into a Halloween store, 90% of female costume options are “sexy-fied” versions of something else, while 0% of that is reflected in male costume options. I’m talking about a metropolitan area, too. Obviously you can always “make your own” (which takes time, effort, and often more $$$) but that’s not “easily finding” one. The truth is that there are NOT a plethora of non-sexy-fied options, and that the ones where “sexiness” is the key ingredient vastly outweigh… Read more »
Hear, hear.
If Women and Girls as a group opted for non-sexy costumes …..That’s what would be offered for sale. Place the blame where it belongs.
Nicole, you seem to lack a basic grasp of how capitalism works. The “sexy-fied” outfits would not be available if they were not in demand. Companies cannot force consumers to buy items they do not want, especially when it comes to discretionary spending. If there was actual demand for the kind of costumes you are describing, they would be everywhere. That’s how capitalism works. There is LOADS of research backing this up. The most famous paper, by Ippolito and Mathios, found that within 3 years of research linking high-fiber diets with reduced cancer risks (link was made in 1984), the… Read more »
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I’d also add that people are perfectly free to *make* their own costume O.O Yes, arts and crafts people, get out the scissors and the PVA glue. I know plenty of women who have dressed up as everything from GIR (invader zim) to a Connect 4 board.
There *are* options out there, but the majority of women choose to take advantage of their looks and available costumes reflect this.
If you can only find sexualized costumes, you are only looking for sexualized costumes.
There’s this thing called the Internet. . .
Google “Halloween costumes” and you will find many hundreds of options. Literally.
This truly is a non-issue. Women must simply not have real problems caused by their gender.
Why else would people give two shits about halloween costumes other than to invent something to complain about?
I completely agree! personally I hate those ‘sexy’ costumes, and yeah, then you go shopping for a costume you do see a load of them, but I definitely don’t ever remember anyone making me wear one. I think they are tragically unimaginative – and there are plenty of options if you put your credit card back in your wallet for 5 minutes and have a think. God forbid you use your brain instead of your buying power. Instead of bemoaning the lack of choice in shops try encouraging all your kids/teens/whoever, to go and make their costume.. and it’s never… Read more »
So throwing on a sheet and going as a ghost is expensive?….wow
Spend some time at Party City or a Halloween shop in a local strip mall… Very few non-sexy costumes. I even took a photo of the selection of women’s costumes and texted it to all my girlfriends with the title, “Happy Sluttoween” (VERY un-PC, I realize). There was one costume I would have worn and it only came in plus sizes. There are a few gender neutral costumes, like ketchup or mustard, but they weren’t that great. I guess if you go to a Hollywood costume shop you can get a real sort of witch or queen costume with a… Read more »
So why not just wear a men’s costume? Cross-dressing is really only seen as negative male to female……So buy whatever fits ?
these are the types of outfits Porn affilliates will be scouting for. These girls will be approached by fancy men with HD Cameras and huge wads of cash to perform on camera in a secluded area and sold to the highest bidder. I worked for a Porn affiliate once where my job was to download these video for editors. It’s sad that Parents won’t talk to there kids about sex and being sexy as well as where to be on Halloween night. What can ya do the laws have been put into place that each parent is responsible for their… Read more »
Neil, I have several young female relatives and I don’t believe for a minute that any one of them is stupid of naive enough to think that being asked to “perform” in a secluded place by a man with a video camera is going to lead to anything but “pr0n on teh intertubes”. What bothers me is the notion that society somehow needs to protect adult women from their own choices. If a woman decides to “perform” for money (as you put it) and they are an adult, why should we presume that they can’t control their own sexuality, especially… Read more »
As far as adults go, I couldn’t agree with Thaddeus more, but was Neil talking about minors? If so its a whole other ballgame that has little to do with male sexuality and everything to do with paedophilia.
Either way, not much related to the issue at hand.
Given that the vast majority of pedophiles aren’t anonymous guys lurking with videocameras in the alleyways but members of the minor’s family or authority figures that have access to minors’ intimate lives, I think we can cross off the “dirty old men are making Halloween a menace to girls” theory.
Standing ovation. Thank you Hugo. However, is it safe to say that because this horrible POV pervades much of our culture, that men who rape women might think sexy clothing to be an invitation to assault, is it then something to warn girls about, to say “this is a risky outfit…because of the dangerous people in the world who will make a decision or assumption about what you are wearing.” I guess my question and concern, as a child advocate and feminist, is while we work to eradicate this kind of thinking (less clothing=invite to rape), which we both can… Read more »
I would like you to find the scientific study that shows the correlation between sexual assault and clothing.
When a girl of 6 can be raped in her PJs and a woman of 85 can be raped in her dressing gown, the only thing “safe to say” about that the relationship between sexy clothing and sexual assault is that it’s a lie. You want to keep your girls safe, raise feminist boys. And please stop lying to your girls that *they* have to do something..
“You want to keep your girls safe, raise feminist boys.”
So if your boy is not raised as a feminist, your girls are not safe then?
Apparently.
So if your boy is not raised as a feminist, your girls are not safe then?
Raising a feminist boys grow up to view themselves and other males as predators, inferior, and loathesome. Unless, of course, they are homosexuals. Then, they’re wonderful.
Well, I didn’t interpret what she said quite like that, but she did seem to be implying only boys raised as feminists won’t attack women, which anybody with half a brain should know is total nonsense. I’m hoping for some clarification to make sure.
Not to mention the fact that a little bit of feminism can be dangerous, too. Pretending to be a feminist by saying all the right things can be a great cover for a predatory male.
Didn’t get any clarification, so I’m going to have to go with my first impression it seems.
The definition of feminism is basically that you believe in equal rights for men and women. You can also see it as acknowleding that it’s unfair that roughly half the world’s population get’s a worse deal because they don’t have a dick. Being a feminist does not mean you are a totally crazed man-hater.
Therefore, I find this statement extremely ridiculous:
“Raising a feminist boys grow up to view themselves and other males as predators, inferior, and loathesome. Unless, of course, they are homosexuals. Then, they’re wonderful.”
Considering how some of those dangerous ideas actually are defended by at least some feminists I don’t think it’s that ridiculous at all.
May I ask where you’ve read that feminists support these ideas? Or perhaps you know feminists who support these ideas?
I’ve personally crossed paths with feminists on your larger feminist spaces that defend such ideas. Namely that it is actually right to assume that all men are either rapists or rapists that haven’t struck yet.
Now bear in mind that I am not trying to say that all feminists support such stuff but I am saying that its more than just random no name radfems (all too often I hear that excuse even as it happens in larger more mainstream spaces).
Hmmm. I am a feminist, and I’ve started following many blogs that deal with issues of misogyny and sexism, but I have yet to come across “radfems.” I’m sure they’re there. There are extremists in every group.
It just bothers me that people use those whose misrepresent real feminism to demonize feminism as a whole.
It just bothers me that people use those whose misrepresent real feminism to demonize feminism as a whole.
I can understand you feeling that way but honestly I get bothered those that do the misrepresenting are given a free pass.
The reason I responded to your comment here was because it sounded a bit like, “But I don’t know any feminists that act like that” line I’ve heard too many times. Because apparently feminists are a monolith when it’s a positive monolith.
There is a lot of bitterness and nastiness on all sides of the ball.
It is rare that an ideology is not misinterpreted/ misrepresented/ warped by at least some people who claim the name (e.g. “feminist”). There are plenty of people who call themselves feminists while misrepresenting feminist values (the primary one being that men and women should be treated equally and with respect as they are all human beings) and causing real harm at the same time, and there are plenty of times that those people do get called out on it: for example, look up some of the reactions to Naomi Wolf’s “Vagina: the New Biography”, or many of the things Sarah… Read more »
That is true. There are those that warp ideologies.
But it’s not always that neat. It’s nice that things do get called on like the examples you mention but what about cases where the warping is actually allowed to pass?
Now I’d be willing to say that it’s not right to expect someone to find and call out every single warping under the threat of being an apologist of some sort. I just wish they would give that same consideration to others.
You DO realise women can rape too, right? =/
Men can be raped by women as well as men – women have sexual needs just like men do, but rape isn’t about that. Rape is about control over the victim, not so much about sexual desires.
Well, I’ve always thought that the problem is actually broader than that; and another story right here on your own website pretty much makes my case:
https://goodmenproject.com/sex-relationships/why-do-we-demonize-men-who-are-honest-about-their-sexual-needs/
so your sexual needs are to rape? then why are you allowed to roam free? are you a sociopath, or a chimp?
@KS “Well, I’ve always thought that the problem is actually broader than that; and another story right here on your own website pretty much makes my case” I see this as: “I think the ‘problem’ is ‘broader.’ ” Key point is ‘problem’. Hmm…Lets see… ‘too broad” means the topic needs to be narrowed(contains too many “*problems*”) for the topic to be better. So ‘not broad enough’ would mean that the topic needs to contain more things that are also problems. Or to say it a different way, too many things that are also problems have been excluded. He then placed… Read more »
If men really have such a hard problem controlling their baser urges whenever they get a little glimpse of T and A, perhaps we should push for chemical castration of all males as soon as they hit puberty. That is what you are saying here, isn’t it? That men are just loathsome animals who can’t help themselves and can’t stop themselves from deliberately and maliciously violating a woman if they happen to find her the slightest bit attractive, whether she be dressed like a ‘slut’ or an 80 year old woman in a sweatsuit. Those poor menz. We should lock… Read more »