Female-on-male sexual aggression isn’t something people take seriously, but the startling facts show that it’s far more prevalent than anyone wants to believe.
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It’s understood that when someone refers to rape, unless otherwise specified they mean a man raping a woman. That’s just a given, it’s basically what rape means in common parlance.
That’s why some folks were surprised a couple years back when the Center for Disease Control’s National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey (PDF link) came out, showing higher-than-expected prevalence of female-on-male sexual assault. The report was criticized for putting “being forced to penetrate” into a different category than rape; just another example of how attached we are to our assumptions about how rape works. (This report is also occasionally cited to push an erroneous claim that 40% of rapists are female; its data does not, in fact, support that conclusion, and there’s a thorough explanation of the math errors involved at this link.)
Writer Ally Fogg was one of many who found the CDC’s report surprising, so he did a little digging, and what he found shocked him. [Editor’s note: this sentence previously identified Mr. Fogg as a feminist writer, a label he prefers not to use.] It’s one thing to know intellectually that people will cling to their stereotypes in the face of data, and another to find nineteen separate studies across two decades, all showing that the conventional wisdom is wrong, none of them discussed. From Fogg’s citations:
Aizeman & Kelley, 1988 – 14% of men (and 29% of women) reported they had been forced to have intercourse against their will
Anderson 1998 – Survey of 461 women (general population) 43% secured sexual acts by verbal coercion; 36.5% by getting a man intoxicated; threat of force – 27.8%, use of force – 20%; By threatening a man with a weapon – 8.9%.
Anderson, 1999 – 43% of college women admitted to using verbal or physical pressure to obtain sex
Anderson and Aymami (1993) 28.5% of women reported the use of verbal coercion, 14.7% had coerced a man into sexual activity by getting him intoxicated and 7.1% had threatened or used physical force.
Fiebert & Tucci (1998) – 70% of male college students reported experiencing some type of harassment, pressuring, or coercion by a female
Hannon, Kunetz, Van Laar, & Williams (1996) – 10% of surveyed male college students reported experiencing a completed sexual assault perpetrated by a female intimate partner
Hogben, Byrne & Hamburger (1996) Lifetime prevalence of 24% for women having made a man engage in sexual activity against his will.
Krahe, Waizenhofer & Moller (2003) – 9.3% of women reported having used aggressive strategies to coerce a man into sexual activities. Exploitation of the man’s incapacitated state: 5.6% Verbal pressure: 3.2%. Physical force: 2%. An additional 5.4% reported attempted acts of sexual aggression
Larimer, Lydum, Anderson and Turner (1999) 20.7% of male respondents had been the recipients of unwanted sexual contact in the year prior to the survey. Verbal pressure was experienced by 7.9%, physical force by 0.6% and intoxication through alcohol or drugs by 3.6%.
Muehlenhard and Cook (1988) 23.8% of male respondents had engaged in unwanted sexual activity as a result of threat or physical force, and 26.8% reported unwanted sexual contact as a result of verbal pressure. For unwanted intercourse, the prevalence rates were 6.5% for physical force and 13.4% for verbal pressure.
O’Sullivan, Byers and Finkelman (1998) Overall incidence of 8% of women reporting sexual aggression for the academic year preceding the survey. Intercourse due to use of threat or physical force 0.5%, by use of alcohol or drugs 0.5% and attempted intercourse due to threat or use of physical force also 0.5%. Of male respondents, 18.5% reported having experienced sexual aggression. Specifically, 3.8% reported experiencing unwanted sexual intercourse due to use of alcohol or drugs, and 2.3% reported attempted intercourse due to threat or use of physical force.
Poppen and Segal (1988) 14% of women reported lifetime incident(s) of perpetration (including both verbal coercion and physical assault)
Russell and Oswald (2001) – 18% of women in a college sample reported engaging in sexually coercive behaviors, ranging from verbal threats and pressure to use of physically aggressive tactics.
Russell and Oswald (2002) 44% of college men in their sample reported being subjected to a sexually coercive tactic.
Shea (1988) Women’s reported lifetime prevalence – 19% for verbal coercion; 1.2% reported having physically assaulted a man.
Sisco, Becker, Figueredo, & Sales (2005) – A third of women reported that they had verbally harassed a person or pressured the person into performing a sexual act that the person felt uncomfortable with while roughly one in ten performed a coercive sexual act that would be considered illegal (e.g., sexual acts that involved a person who was unable or unwilling to consent)
Sorensen, Stein, Siegel, Golding and Burnam (1987) Lifetime prevalence rate of 9.4% and an adult prevalence rate of 7.2% for men’s sexual victimization (male self-reports).
Struckman-Johnson (1988) – 2% of 355 female college students reported they had forced sex on a dating partner at least once in their lifetime.
Struckman-Johnson and Struckman-Johnson (1998) – 43% of college men reported experiencing a coercive incident, of which 36% reported unwanted touch and 27% reported being coerced into sexual intercourse.
[As I was almost done completing this list, almost inevitably, I discovered that someone else – Martin Fiebert to be precise – had already compiled a similar one. The bastard. Anyway, it’s here, and contains many of the same papers plus many more]
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The disconnect between the data and the conventional wisdom here is stark, and worrisome. It tells us that there are many, many more male survivors of rape, assault, and harassment out there than anyone talks about.
The problem is we have wildly, dangerously inaccurate cultural stereotypes of how men, women, and sex function. We pretend that men always want sex and women never do, and that right there feeds a lot of rape culture. As I’ve written before:
Male rape victims being mocked or disbelieved, or simply afraid to come forward? Arises from the same shit. Because after all, how could he say he didn’t want sex, when everyone knows all men constantly want sex? It’s on simply every sitcom! These poor guys may even tell themselves they must have wanted it, it couldn’t have been rape, because they’re normal healthy guys, right, so they couldn’t have not wanted sex. People will go a long way to rationalize something if it means finding a way to live with it.
Indeed, most of the male rape survivors I’ve known found ways, at least initially, of rationalizing it. “She just gets like that sometimes” or “I guess it wasn’t that big a deal” or “Doesn’t matter, had sex.” We simply don’t have a vocabulary, culturally, that allows for men to say “I was raped” or “I didn’t want it” or even, in too many cases, “No.”
It’s well documented that in fiction, female-on-male or male-on-male rape is treated as a joke or even cause for celebration. Abigail Rine at The Atlantic recently pointed out a particularly egregious example, when an adult character took advantage of a sick, vulnerable underage kid, who kept asking for it to stop. No worries, though, it was an underage boy, so:
I found that the vast majority of responses (including The Atlantic‘s) glossed over the encounter, benignly describing Dick as “losing his virginity” or having his virginity “taken” by Aimee. Even more disturbing were those that portrayed the exchange as something positive, even empowering. According to one participant in a roundtable discussion at The Wall Street Journal, Aimee “guides [Dick] through his first sexual experience.” A recap at The Daily Mail, despite recounting Dick’s protestations, underplays the interaction as a mere “tryst.”
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As long as male survivors get only the occasional lip service acknowledgment, we’re going to continue to lack the vocabulary to talk about this problem. As long as we pretend that women can’t be predatory or inappropriate, we’re going to continue to lack the ability to engage with this problem. As long as we act like men are always up for sex or that erection implies consent, we are encouraging and enabling rape culture.
Fortunately, there’s evidence that rape education helps reduce the rate of sexual assault; it strips away the rationalizations and justifications that cover up rape. Unfortunately, due to the above-cited unspoken cultural pressures, almost all rape education programs are focused exclusively on male perpetrators. While male perpetrators are the bulk of the problem and a good start, the evidence we’re seeing indicates that education efforts aimed at helping men say no, and women hear it, will also spare a lot of people a lot of pain.
This isn’t about trying to minimize female survivors’ problems or win some kind of imaginary contest. Nobody who’s been raped or assaulted should be laughed off or ignored; we can all agree on that. Let’s take a good hard look at the data and work out how we can make things better for everyone.
Photo—bankdis/Flickr
The thing is, wen you say “rape”, everyone thinks of the sociopath hiding in a parking garage with a knife and a balaclava. That’s going to be a male pretty much every time. But when you talk about date rape or marital rape, it’s a very different story. It’s been a common comedic device in sit-coms to portray a wife using coersion or pressure to obtain sex from an unwilling husband; think of the Ropers on Three’s Company or the Bundies on Married With Children. And don’t get me wrong, it’s good that we include coersion in our definition of… Read more »
When I was at school, not one boy in my class believed they could be raped. That is why we need a more comprehensive sex education about all areas of it
Michele L. Ybarra, MPH; Kimberly J. Mitchell, PhD Prevalence Rates of Male and Female Sexual Violence Perpetrators in a National Sample of Adolescents JAMA Pediatr. Published online October 07, 2013. doi:10.1001/jamapediatrics.2013.2629 available here: http://archpedi.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1748355 This study found that Females and males have carried out sexual violence at nearly equal levels by the age of 18 — 48 percent on the female side, 52 percent on the male side. 4% (10 females and 39 males) reported attempted or completed rape. Other interesting findings: females also appear to be more likely than males to engage in perpetration as part of a team… Read more »
One more thing to consider. There was a case out of England were a girl gang tortured and sexually assaulted a boy. The boy was not able to hide his injuries and was ashamed of being brutalized by girls so he initially claimed that men had victimized him until his sister came across a video that the girls made.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-478781/Sick-happy-slap-girl-gang-sexually-abused-teenage-boy-jailed.html
How many other male on male sexual assaults were actually perpetrated by women, but the men / boys were too ashamed to admit they were victimized by women / girls?
Howdy. I work in statistics and am intrigued by the studies presented above. I promise to review each study for veracity. Here’s one, Anderson 1998. In Flogg’s list he reports the following: Anderson 1998 – Survey of 461 women (general population) 43% secured sexual acts by verbal coercion; 36.5% by getting a man intoxicated; threat of force – 27.8%, use of force – 20%; By threatening a man with a weapon – 8.9%. I looked up the article and found this: Truth: This is not a general population sample, nor did the author every claim as much. The study was… Read more »
And female college students have admitted to engaging in sexually aggressive behavior probably beyond the general population. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/fashion/07campus.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 There is no pressure on female correctional workers to engage in sex with inmates so why does the DOJ survey indicate that they are 50% of the perpetrators of sexual violence in adult prisoners and as much as 95% of the adult perpetrators in juvenile detention. So what’s the answer? The answer is probably the one most people are trying to avoid to hold on to their belief that women are inherently more moral, kinder, and more nurturing than men, which is… Read more »
Hi Jeff
Thank you for looking at the study.
✺”Truth: This is not a general population sample, nor did the author every claim as much. The study was focused on women who had been sexually abused in their youth”✺
@ Jeff Vlackman
“From the horse’s (Anderson’s) mouth: “According to my research, college women who have been sexually abused in the past and/or those who hold adversarial beliefs about relationships are more likely than their nonabused, nonadversarial counterparts to engage in sexually aggressive behaviors.””
How did he determine that if his study didn’t include a control group of non-abused, non-adversarial women?
He did exactly that. By controlling for most variables – relationship status, economic background, location, education, age – he could then select participants based on sexual abuse history – hence winding up with a sample where about half were sexually abused, and half weren’t. I’m unsure of how the adversarial aspect got into it, though I have emailed the professor about the study to clarify my understanding of it, and to let him know that people are completely manipulating his research in order to suggest that 1 in 10 women are attacking men with weapons to get sex. John, I… Read more »
@ Jeff Blackman “But women aren’t committing rape on par with men, and men like you need to stop taking offence from that unfortunate truth.” I don’t know that it is a truth. The MRM recognizes that most people at the top are men. Unlike the general population, we also recognize that most people at the bottom are men too. Most of these studies have never included the population sample of those at the bottom, those in prison or homeless. Even the CDC study which probably got a better cross section of the country than the others was limited to… Read more »
@ Jeff Blackman “John, I have no idea what you’re discussing in regards to a prison study. Especially considering the article you linked to is one of those creepy sorts that elitist news outlets put out about female sexuality, where they get a few anecdotes from college girls about sex, and it gets the readership all hot & bothered, because apparently, NY Times readers haven’t heard of porn.” The NYT article suggests that aggressive behavior is not linked to prior sexual abuse, but to the gender imbalance at college. One thing to point out is that not all women were… Read more »
Hi John Anderson
You write:
✺”I pointed to the prison rape stats with the assumption that prison personnel would likely mirror a cross section of the country”✺
English is not my first language. Maybe I misunderstand .
There are studies that show that prison staff , prison guards have remarkable similar background to the inmates. Unfortunately I can not give a link to the study.
So if women , prison staff, guards,officers have lots of the same background variables as inmates , we can not see female prison guards as good representative sample of all women in a country.
Hi Iben, You might be right. I suspect that it is one of few high paying jobs that the under educated have an ability to get. There are many theories as to why sexual misconduct is higher among female staff than among male staff. Some have suggested that male staff have not fully embraced the presence of women so they don’t have their backs. This causes women to for their own safety forge alliances with inmates. My theory is that 30 or so years ago there was rampant sexual abuse of female prisoners by male guards. This led to many… Read more »
Hi John I have worked as an unskilled prison guard for three months. Scandinavian prisons are not as unpleasant as some we see in America. To be a female prison guard was a special experience. They wanted to talk non stop all day. So we did. And a man in prison is emotionally open and naked in ways men outside seldom are. They were all respectful and treated me well. I drank my tea and knitted mittens all day and they told me about their life,their crimes and their worries about the girl waiting for them outside. They told me… Read more »
@john hall Feminists must take much of the responsibility for cultures distorted view of women as nonviolent.Feminist have long falsely said women were incapable of violence,especially rape.This idea has been taught to girls and boys by feminists for decades.Feminists literature is filled with this ideology.Women in general have contributed to this false narrative of women as nonviolent. Ignoring or simply denying the culpability of women,motivated by their own agency, as abusers and rapists has long been part of feminists response.Blaming the patriarchy is just an example of this. This article sheds much needed light on this subject doesn’t go nearly… Read more »
One of the stats I found interesting in the DOJ study of sexual victimization in juvenile detention was that the rate of sexual victimization among prisoners was three times higher among girls than it was among boys at least in the inaugural survey. I hadn’t looked at the most recent one yet.
The same thing (although not with such a big difference) can be seen in adult prisoners. Female inmates are at a higher risk than male inmates to be sexually abused and the majority of female inmates who are victims of sexual abuse while incarcerated were victimized by fellow inmates. What about co-ed prisons and jail one might then ask. Well, most prison and jails in the US aren’t co-eds and it turns out that those few who are do not have a higher risk of inmate on inmate sexual abuse than the single-sex ones. Source: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/svpjri0809.pdf Interestingly enough the latest… Read more »
Feminists have a phrase “internalised patriarchy.” This means that often, when they are running on autopilot, and not thinking, then they have very patriarchal views. Feminism has challenged the ways that patriarchy harms women, but it has not dealt with the ways that it harms men, nor has it dealt with the ways that patriarchy benefits women. This means that feminists often hold very patriarchal views on these issues. Silencing male victims, and ignoring female perpetrators pre-dates feminism. Therefore these concepts were not invented by feminists, they are core components of the patriarchy that are only just beginning to be… Read more »
Wow. This discussion intrigues me, because with most of the articles I read on TGMP, I usually agree from the outset. But I thought the statistics in this article sounded, well, ridiculous. And I don’t want to think so, because I believe the subject matter is valid and genuine. I expected a whole bunch of contrary responses to flood the commentary section. But no. Has me scratching my head to be the only contrarian, but, ok, so, I’ll just say what I think and you can tell me why I’m wrong. Women “raping” men. OK, I get it: it’s possible.… Read more »
Maybe a lot of our cultural conditioning about what women are capable of is wrong?
When data and theory disagree, the theory is wrong.
@ Paul “But no. Has me scratching my head to be the only contrarian, but, ok, so, I’ll just say what I think and you can tell me why I’m wrong.” The CDC study was a survey so let me ask do you think that women don’t (as a general rule) lie about rape, but men do? If you don’t think men would lie about being raped, why wouldn’t you believe them? Same with the other studies. Do you think a woman would lie about forcing someone to have sex? Do you believe 10 – 40% or so of them… Read more »
As far as studies and statistics are concerned, especially when they are of a soft science like sociology and psychology, I always take their numbers and conclusions with a grain of salt. Often, they exist to promote an agenda, and fail to take important factors into account. Also, in most or all of the summaries above, the definitions of phrases like “sexually coercive tactic” is unclear, or it covers such a wide range of behavior as to be somewhat meaningless. That’s why I’d like to know the psychological theories of why the behavior, if it’s true, happens; otherwise it’s still… Read more »
Paul, I do agree with you, particularly on your point that “coersion” could be used to refer to a very wide range of behaviors from relatively benign to truly terrible. Even “physically aggressive tactics” is pretty vague. Is this a violent action, or is it a sexually provocative one meant to arouse the other person and have them give in? In addition when dealing with surveys, the phrasing of questions and context provided can have a big influence on the results. There are three types of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. However, part of why I didn’t mention this… Read more »
@ Paul Do you believe that 1 in 4 women will face some form of sexual victimization in their lifetimes? Your position is basically semantic. We can’t know because language can be interpreted in different ways by different people. If we ask a woman have you been raped, the response is based on her definition. I guess my question is when women are interviewed, are you more willing to believe extremely large populations have been victimized? Are you willing to believe that “false accusation” of rape is rare? Remember police don’t routinely investigate a rape as a false report. The… Read more »
@ Paul Another way to phrase it is that it’s one thing to question whether the numbers are wrong. It’s another thing entirely to question why they are so high. For example Noah questions that women are 40% of the rapists with the implication that they comprise a much lower percentage. He points to this article which uses as one of it’s justifications to question the statistic that a person could have raped more than one person so we can’t know what percentage of rapists are women. That would necessarily imply that female rapists on average raped more men than… Read more »
Most people assume that women make up 99% of the victims, and men make up about 1%.
Most people assume that men make up 99% of the perpetrators, and women 1%.
These studies show conclusively that the above models are wrong.
The studies show that maybe women make up about 33% of perpetrators, and men up to half of victims. If done properly this number would be surrounded by confidence intervals, and you could argue that women might make 20% of rapists. But you can’t argue that women make up 1% of rapists.
I think I might understand where you’re coming from, Paul. You seem to be taking issue with what standards/definitions are used to call something rape rather than the levels reported. One can indeed always question a particular standard used in data taking, but I think the important issue here is that if we look at… reported sexual incidents, for want of a better term right now that isn’t “rape”, then a large number of them DO count as “rape” by the sorts of standards feminists have been saying are “rape” for years when talking about sexual incidents reported by women.… Read more »
Thanks for all your responses. I’ve been wanting to research the topic and some of the studies and reply but I’ve been swamped with after-vacation work during the day, and a neglected cat that wants to be my laptop at night.
I agree wholeheartedly that this discussion needs to take place. I hate to think that it is only men being targeted as the one who perpetuate violence, when, really, both sexes are just as capable of violence. I’m glad this statistics are being brought to light. It is a discussion that needs to take place. But, unfortunately, such statistics are being ignored.
Good point John, I agree. There are only to categories, rapists and everybody else. Gender should even be in the picture.
It’s a good article Noah and appreciated, but I always feel slighted that people feel the need when talking specifically about male victimization to state that most victims are women / female and / or most perpetrators are men / male. “While male perpetrators are the bulk of the problem and a good start, the evidence we’re seeing indicates that education efforts aimed at helping men say no, and women hear it, will also spare a lot of people a lot of pain. This isn’t about trying to minimize female survivors’ problems or win some kind of imaginary contest. Nobody… Read more »
I haven’t see anything in this article to indicate that women’s victimization is minimized or trivialized in any way. That’s just how seeped in the “rape/dv is something men do to women” has gotten. You can’t even mention male victims without being obligated to throw a bone to the “but its mostly male against female!” crowd (who oddly enough are some of the very same people who get bothered by how conversations about female genital cutting get interrupted by those wanting to hijack it for the cause of male circumcision). Specifically mentioning it just seems to me to support the… Read more »
Just want to point out an error in the original article :
Ally Fogg does not self-identify as a feminist – here is his blog post titled Why I am not a feminist.
snap 😉
Hi Noah,
Thanks for talking about this and for linking back to my blog..I’m glad this is being discussed more and more.
A small correction, I don’t identify as a feminist, for reasons I’m forever bleating on about to anyone who will listen!
Would the CDC ever release the entire dataset? Or some way to get a better look at who rapes who instead of a summary? It doesn’t state who the other people are in the 79.2% men forced to penetrate report a female only attacker for instance, where do I find out the other 19.8%?
Of the known single-perpetrator rapes (including envelopment) that NISVS 2010 report has about 16-20% of rapists being female. Even in the 1 year category, is there enough information to suggest that 40% are NOT female? Because as it stands between 16 and 40% of rapists were female, the truth being somewhere in there unless women took a year off from raping but the last few years did a hell of a lot of raping to get the number of male victims up so high. Then you have the issue that as time goes on, men are more likely to rationalize… Read more »
When we start linking the roots of silence and shame imposed on male victims of sexual abuse to sexism and patriarchy that most visually oppresses women all over the world, we can mobilize in solidarity to stop it. Great data in this article.
patriarchy oppress everyone on the planet, not only women.
@Mr Supertypo..
Really? How so?
For a start it silences male rape victims….
Jules are you being sarcastic or is that a genuine question?
In my opinion, the most damaging stereotype isn’t even mentioned in the article. Do we believe that women can’t be predatory or inappropriate? Somewhat. But certainly anyone who’s been through middle school know how downright sociopathic some other women can be. Do we believe that men are always wanting sex and an erection implies consent? More, yes, but when I look at my own biases on this issue, this isn’t what comes to the forefront. Certainly in my own mind the stereotype that men are powerful, invulnerable, and strong (mentally and physically) is the one that plays front and center.… Read more »
I really would need to read the articles. This strikes me as one size fits all victim finding at first face.
Hi Hank
Please take a look at them .
You are qualified, come back and tell us your opinion,
This article is fantastic. I have been waiting so long to read a serious article about this matter. I (a woman) have always believed that women are more than capable of sexually assaulting a man; however, when I have brought this up among friends, both male and female, when discussing rape it is normally brushed off with an awkward, bemused chuckle. It really does stem from the myth that all men want sex, all the time, every single second of the day, and that no sexual encounter can ever be bad for a male. The false societal view that all… Read more »
By acknowledging female rapists, besides accepting the dark side of equality, we may also shed more light on all forms of coercion. Many times, perhaps, the image of the male rapist is understandable because, stereotypically, men are capable of physically overpowering women, but rape can happen without being out-muscled. Perhaps acknowledging female rapists would garner more understanding for all rape victims.
Many times, perhaps, the image of the male rapist is understandable because, stereotypically, men are capable of physically overpowering women, but rape can happen without being out-muscled. And I have found this to be an odd thing. When talking about how male rapists attack female victims we know full well that physical overpowerment is not the only way to attack. Drugs, extortion/blackmail, alcohol, taking advantage of those who are not of sound mind (such as the mentally disabled) and body (such as the elderly or physically disabled), taking advantage of the under aged. But when talking about female rapists all… Read more »
Very important read, thank you. We do need to rethink what rape actually means and I really like that the author emphasized on this myth about men “always wanting sex” and women “never wanting”. The conditioning is so strong that it took me many years and books to understand that men are just as vulnerable about sex and sexuality as females, but nobody is ever saying that out loud. And we women need to look at ourselves because many times we think it’s a harmless “game”, when it might actually be coercion, because we don’t consider that an erection doesn’t… Read more »
“On a side note as I became aware of my feminism I also realized how I “borrowed” certain patterns myself from patriarchy that I used and didn’t even notice, like objectifying men on the streets in my thoughts and using macho-like flirting terms because I thought that what’s being a cool go-get-it girl is like.” Sofa, it’s really hard to get rid of our cultural conditioning, isn’t it. It’s a long, hard process ebcause it means giving up pieces of our gender identity. Brava for the progress you have made! “And we women need to look at ourselves because many… Read more »
I think one reason is that its easy for men who are practically safe from getting raped by a female to forget or ignore that some others aren’t.
Btw how does one secure sexual acts by verbal coercion? Does it mean threatening with physical/lethal force or something?
It can take many forms, such as threatening to tell someone’s secrets, to threaten to spread lies about them, or to blackmail them. For example, one man I coached had partner tell him that if he didn’t have sex with her, she’d tell everyone that he couldn’t “get it up” and was probably gay.
It can be as simple as ” If you don’t, I’ll say you tried to /did force me” along with the implied threat of her boyfriend lover husband friends kicking your ass. Took me over ten years to tell my wife/friends how far/fast she went……..confused that it took me all of 45 sec or so to get my penis out of her mouth all while terrified that her 300lb ish 6′ 7ish husband would do….how to demure and not make her angry……how to deal with the idea that this might end my marriage all in those 45 sec……. followed by… Read more »
I’m so sorry. That must have been awful and very scary. I hope things are different for you now. There is no worse invasion of your personhood, whether you’re male or female.
@ Safor
One guy, who told the story of how he passed out drunk and woke briefly to a woman riding him. He passed out again and when he awoke the second time, she demanded sex or else would claim that he raped her. One time it was intoxication. The second time a verbal threat.
James Landrith, and the threat was implicit, not explicit. “Don’t be forceful”.
Another implicit threat she made was in the context of the anti-gay witch-hunt that was underway at the time in the Marine Corps.
Gay-shaming is a very, very effective meanas of sexual coercion, ranging form cadging drinks all the way to full-on rape.
I’m polyamorous. At one point, I was dating a woman (also poly) whose husband was a high ranking officer in the navy. He was poly too, of course (else it would just be cheating). ANYWAY, the navy… frowns upon polyamory (anything other than hetero, married sex, actually, but especially “deviant” sexual orientations like homosexuality or polyamory). It considers such behavior “immoral” — an officer having sex with someone other than their spouse is adultery and it can get you dishonorably discharged, or even imprisoned. It rarely happens, but it DOES happen. The woman that the husband was seeing got jealous… Read more »
I think that the reason that this data is not accepted is because of the patriarchal image of women.
Women are kind, nurturing, loving, good, polite etc … Rapist does not fit with that image. If we view women as having a capacity, and desire for sexual violence, then who will we leave the children with?
It’s part of the lie that keeps women down. Women are people, and sometimes people commit sex crimes.
That is EXACTLY what feminism is, not the socially accepted misandry that passes off as feminism (and scares away many people who are actually feminists).
It goes like this:
1 Women are persons
2 Persons are capable of both good and evil
Therefore;
3 Women are capable of both good and evil
That woman-as-the-victim bullshit always made me feel weaker as a woman.
“That is EXACTLY what feminism is, not the socially accepted misandry that passes off as feminism (and scares away many people who are actually feminists).”
Cynthia, thank you, thank you, thank you.
“That woman-as-the-victim bullshit always made me feel weaker as a woman.”
This is the misogyny of this parody of feminism – “fauxminism”?
Cynthia, can I find out where to sign up for your version of feminism? I always felt like arguing that women should have equal rights and opportunities (including the right to not be assaulted or raped) as men was stupid. Not stupid because it’s a bad idea, but stupid because — to me — it’s so obvious that even debating it feels like arguing whether owls exist. Or, are there hats? Sexism and rape are carried out — not by men, not by women, but by **people**. If you want to say sexism is bad, I’m with you! If you… Read more »
And it doesn’t help when that image of the woman that can do no wrong is exploited by even those who say they are against such images. Women are kind, nurturing, loving, good, polite etc … Rapist does not fit with that image. If we view women as having a capacity, and desire for sexual violence, then who will we leave the children with? And its not just child care. When the image of the woman that can do no wrong is shattered that means losing quite a bit of privilege. That comment that trey put in at September 23,… Read more »
This isn’t about trying to minimize female survivors’ problems or win some kind of imaginary contest. Nobody who’s been raped or assaulted should be laughed off or ignored; we can all agree on that. Let’s take a good hard look at the data and work out how we can make things better for everyone. And that is simply what a lot of MRAs have been asking for for a long time. No play it trying to deny female vicitims. Just wanting male victims to get the help they need. Refusing to talk about them or refusing to talk about them… Read more »
@ Danny
“Refusing to talk about them or refusing to talk about them without a minefield of “but most rape is male v female!” (because seriously we don’t trot that out when talking female suicide victims do we?).”
There is also the very real possibility that it is untrue.
And that makes it even worse John. Its bad enough to use it as a weapon to deny male victims when it is true and now that we are finally getting some close to solid numbers on male victims yes there is a chance that its not even true. Which makes it even worse.
(I was especially saddened a while back when I read a post by someone who in one breath said they didn’t know how many male victims there are but then in the next said they knew that there weren’t as many male victims as female victims.)
I agree Danny. MRA’s have been on the forefront on this one, I cannot understand why someone would ignore/gliss over this.
Hi Noah
I admit I am surprised at these percentages .
“Anderson, 1999 – 43% of college women admitted to using verbal or physical pressure to obtain sex”
43% is nearly every second woman at college.
The real prevalence is closest to the average of all of the studies, weighted by sample size, because some individual studies will both over and underestimate the real prevalence by random chance.
Doing a proper meta analysis is a serious undertaking, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta-analysis
But from eyballing the numbers here http://www.dottal.org/LBDUK/references_examining_men_as_vict.htm you can probably support the statement that a man is twice as likely to commit a sexual assault as a women.
@ Mike
There is a cluster of men at “the top” and there is a cluster of men at “the bottom” of society. How many of the survey’s you linked to include the men at “the bottom” of society, the imprisoned and the homeless?