10 Things I’d Tell My Teenage Daughter About Men, Dating, and Sex

Damon Young may not be a dad yet, but he’s got some advice for his own teenage daughter, should he someday have one.

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Originally appeared at Very Smart Brothas 

You know, I’m not a dad yet, but I might be one day. If this day comes, there’s a 50/50 chance that my child will be a daughter, and I will do everything in my power to protect, love, and educate this girl. But, if she decides to cite a hug I didn’t give her in 2018 as the reason why she can’t find love in 2038, I’ll have one message for her: F*ck you

This disturbingly candid (or, would “candidly disturbing” work better?) example of the type of parent I’m probably going to be is the last paragraph of “Why “Daddy Issues” Don’t Really Exist” — an article where I argue that if every strange thing a woman does can be explained away with “daddy issues,” then perhaps they don’t exist. And, while “please don’t blame a hug you didn’t get in 2018 for your relationship issues in 2038” is definitely sage advice, I don’t think that’s quite enough.

Today, I’ve decided to share nine more bits of fatherly advice I’d give my (non-existent) teenager daughter if she actually decides to exist one day.

2. Just assume that every man you meet from now until you’re, I don’t know, 53(?) would sleep with you if given the opportunity

This doesn’t mean that every man you meet is going to try to. This also doesn’t mean that sleeping with you is all any man is ever going to want from you. There will be men who’d give their left testicle just for five minutes of your time. Men who’d build a bridge across Lake Michigan if that’s what it took to you see you. Men who will want to debate you, make fun of you, hear your opinions about “Amistad” and Meek Mill, build houses for you, sit in silence with you, lay next to you, travel with you, learn from you, teach you, learn about you, take you to IKEA, and grow old with you. But, the man wanting to sleep with you is the foundation for all of that, and you’d be wise never to forget that.

Shit, as much as I love your mother, you wouldn’t be here today if I didn’t want to tear her clothes off the first time I saw her at the Ole Country Buffet hovering over a plate of steamed broccoli while her thong was peaking out ever so slightly from her two toned silver vintage stretch pants church.

3. When in doubt, break up

Relationship drama is for grown ups. And by “grown-ups” I mean “old motherfuckers.” If you’re 21 years old, and you and your boyfriend are going through some serious adversity, break the hell up with him. No need to be “working through” anything if you’re still not even old enough to serve in the House of Representatives.

I know this seems cold, but your youth should be the time when you’re having as much fun as you possibly can, not losing sleep because some janky cat with lint on his lips is going through some depression and you don’t know how to help him. You really want to know the best way to get through to him? Say “deuces” and let him figure that shit out for himself.

4. Learn how to ***insert word that rhymes with “pastorgate”***

I’m telling you this now because you’ll likely be a much happier person if you’re able to, um, make yourself happy without the assistance of others. If you need more details, you should probably go ask your mom. Or one of your white classmates.

5. Eat your vegetables

I hate (most) vegetables, but your mom seems to love them. Since your mom is unfathomably attractive — and since unfathomably attractive women have (somewhat) easier lives — I’d suggest you start emulating her. Eat your veggies and shit.

6. When in dating doubt, always err on the side of making things harder for the guy

He needs to convince you that he’s worthy of being in your life, not the other way around.

7. When in relationship doubt, err on the side of making things easier

You have carte blanche to be a bit of an asshole while you’re single and dating. In fact, I encourage it. Once a guy has proven himself worthy and “won” you, though, you can start buying him gum and and sleeping in the wet spot and shit.

8. I know I’m your father and you love me and shit, but don’t try to date men like me

I’m an awkward asshole who only tricked your mother into marrying me because I told her the Sultan of Brunei is my second cousin on my dad’s side. Your best strategy would be to avoid all assholes, awkward and, um, unawkward, regardless of how attractive and “unique” they seem to be. You can usually easily spot them, too. They’re the ones who intrigue you and make you feel a little tingly because they literally do not give a fuck about you or anything you do.

I actually don’t expect you to follow this advice, but if you did it would save you a shitload of unnecessary heartache.

9. Throughout life, you’re going to meet women who say things like “I never really got along with other women.” Avoid these women the same way Antonio Cromartie avoids condoms

10. Throughout life, you’re going to meet men who say things like “I’m not like every other guy.” If you happen across a man like this, see number 9 above. 

[Editor’s note: this post has been slightly altered from its original version]

 

Awesome photo (not of Damon Young!) courtesy of mathplourde

About Damon Young

Pittsburgh native Damon Young (aka “The Champ”) is the co-founder of VerySmartBrothas.com. Their first book Your Degrees Won’t Keep You Warm At Night: The Very Smart Brothas Guide To Dating, Mating and Fighting Crime is available at Amazon.com

Comments

  1. AnnoyedReader says:

    This article is horrible and should not be on this site. It goes against everything logical I’ve ever read on it. Fathers and mothers, do not heed this advice unless you want the same kinds of daughter the article complains about.

  2. No. 3 Is heartless. If you teach your kids that they should break up with someone as soon as they hit a rough patch, you’re not doing them justice — you’re teaching them that it isn’t worth sticking with other people. You’re teaching them that as soon as something goes wrong, they should just move on. Yeah, being young is about having fun, but if you don’t learn early on how to honest and caring in a relationship then you’re going to have a hard time later on. I’m not saying that you should stick it out if they’ve been abusive or belittling or just plain wrong for you; but if they’re depressed or something is going on, you should at least try to work it out. And if you can’t, then you can breakup. But not preemptively; not just because you don’t want to do any work in the relationship.

    • That breakup rather stick it out through drama was the BEST part of his advice for a few reasons:

      1) Most young men are NOT very good men, yet…………likewise women.
      Ask any guy old enough to marry and he’ll tell you he was a jerk from 15-25 or longer.

      2) We grow up by dating different people and find out what we like and don’t like likewise.
      Staying with the guy you have drama with, cheats you & the fun guys of time together.

      3) If a guy & daughter struggle early on—–without sharing money-children-schedules—-they are just not very compatible— ask any couple who stayed married through sharing money-time-children—they’ll say it was fun & easy before that shared-work and fun & easy again after that satisfying-work is done.

      4) I’d add a rule that until old enough to marry (graduated & real job & student loans paid) changing partners every 1-2 years is almost always the right thing to do…………..because it take so long to recover from a long term romance………….longer the longer it went on.

      Daughters who spend their twenties as a couple fail to learn how to be single, both single=alone and single=seeking.

      Also a new guy has a pretty high hurdle to “become the keeper” if he has to outlast really long term past romances, or worst of all the “one and only.”

  3. Agree that jokes about violence against men are unfunny and inappropriate.

  4. Dorine Moore says:

    He lost me at “F*ck you.” From a parent to a child? Really? Maybe I’ve seen too many very sad parent/child interactions of this nature for it to strike me as humorous in any way.

  5. I cant believe the lack of humour displayed on this topic. Damon is trying to tell the truth in a hilarious fashion and everyone is getting their titties in a knot! As the father of two daughters I have discussed all these points with my daughters, just maybe in a more serious fashion. Just one point I would like clarified please Damon as regards #4…….dont black girls “pastorgate”?

    • OMG,

      I remember an article on feministing which talked about a Wayan brothers online joke video.
      It was about a superhero who (when called by the prospective father to be) would pummel pregnant women until they miscarried.

      The thing is, if a person is willing to let go of a realistic frame of mind and say:”Hey this is just a joke and not advocating anything, stop being so serious” yeah even that subject matter could be funny.

      However, it definitely wasn’t funny to the feminists on feministing (who I imagine a fair number congregate at websights like that one specifically because they have had issues with violence from men). To them it was triggering.

      This websight has a very similar grouping. There are a lot of men on this board who have been shamed, bullied, or subjected to violence from women. Several of those criticizing this article have contributed articles detailing their struggles against female bullying, shaming and violence. To them even *joking* that men should be subjected to violence for a bad pickup line is triggering.

      To be fair, this is the very first time I have seen an article with violence upon men as comedy from tgmp. So they went 16 months without resorting to the lowest common denominator. But, that doesn’t mean we should resist calling them out on poor judgement.

      On the flipside I have *never* seen tgmp use jokes about violence against women as comedy. And I seriously doubt they are going to start now (if they did, I wouldn’t laugh at that either). When violence against women is displayed as comedy, everybody starts getting in your face and protesting. All tgmp has done is shown how very far we have to go to respecting the rights and voices of men.

  6. John Schtoll says:

    I have decided to articulate why the article upsets me. I come to this site to quite frankly get away from the man bashing on just about every other site on the internet.

    This article is simply and purely man bashing, sure it is “JUST A JOKE” and it is supposed to be funny (which quite frankly it isn’t) but even if it were funny, I still think it is wrong on this site.

    Good men are born, they are not created. Male (and female) babies are good, they are ‘pure’. Society makes them ‘bad’. They are shaped by what they see around them. If a young man comes to this site to give an honest try about being a good man, this is the last article he should see here. He can see millions of articles like this on Huff, Jezebel, Feminste etc. Quite frankly he doesn’t need it here.

    • John D says:

      It’s also a crappy article for women.
      Number 2:
      2. Just assume that every man you meet from now until you’re, I don’t know, 53(?) would sleep with you if given the opportunity

      This adds to the bandwagon that sex is something women give to men (not do for their own pleasure).

      If his daughter is horny and has sex with men for her *own* pleasure w/out ringing men through the worthiness marathon, will that make her a bad person or make the father a failure at being a dad?

      There is a lot wrong with this article from every perspective.

      • And there are a lot of average-looking to unattractive women with whom men do not want to sleep, and who don’t receive the favors that the authors lists in the article. How does he know his daughter won’t be one of them? What advice and emotional support would he give in that case? It’s crazy to me how socially invisible unattractive women are; we might as well be ninjas for all that we’re noticed.

      • wellokaythen says:

        “2. Just assume that every man you meet from now until you’re, I don’t know, 53(?) would sleep with you if given the opportunity.”

        Ignoring of course the 5% of men who are gay, plus unknowable percentages who may just not be attracted to you…..

  7. I think it’s interesting all of the articles published by tgmp about the Trayvon Martin case which basically boil down to the main contributing factor being GZ’s and society’s stereotypical views of black men.

    Now, the last several points of this article spread very common stereotypes of ALL men.

    I guess as long as you are not including race, it’s okay to disparage men and spread stereotypes.

    But, don’t say all feminists do X or Y in the comments or your comment will be deleted.

    • John Schtoll says:

      @John D: You bring up a very good point. If we stereotype ALL men, this naturally includes Black Men, Asian Men, Native Men etc. Why is it ok , to denigrate ALL men, but don’t dare denigrate a sub set.

    • soullite says:

      I think it’s pretty clear that this site isn’t what it purports to be. I won’t go as far as some, and say it’s just a false-start to channel some opposition to femnsm into backdoor support for femnsm, but it’s clearly not about a real dialog. There’s a reason why every post that uses that ideologies name goes straight to moderation, and it isn’t because this is a site where ‘men can be men’.

      We’re hardly the first to point this out, but all you’ll ever hear on the matter is silence.

  8. Soullite says:

    So… basically you want an emotionally stunted daughter incapable of trusting men, unwilling to put any work into a relationship (what you have to do to have a relationship, really, is not bolt at the first hint of trouble), who makes life as difficult as possible for their significant other (and no doubt uses his resulting ‘failures’ to blame him for the inevitable break-up).

    I thought this site was about being good men, not about raising bad women?

  9. John Schtoll says:

    http://goodmenproject.com/good-feed-blog/the-talk-cast-laughs-at-mans-dismembered-penis/

    Just can’t help but think this article is just like these women on the talk.

  10. Dorine Moore says:

    Damon, I am willing to bet that what you write when your daughter is 3 years old will look very different from this article. One can hope…

  11. This article, which did make me chuckle, reminds me a lot of what I hear from male friends about their daughters. They joke all the time about how they “know what men are like” and that’s why they are going to dig a moat around the house or put their daughter in a convent until she is 35. My brother in law was totally freaked out when my niece started dating, while my sister was blasé about it. When I was a teenager, my dad did everything he could to intimidate and scare off every guy who showed the slightest interest in me! My mom, on the other hand, talked to me about birth control.

    So maybe men should be discussing why they have such negative views toward the young men who want to hang around their daughters… Are their feelings justified or not? What should a father do to keep his daughter from dating the “bad guys”?

    • I agree! I’d like to hear some input on that as well.

    • Mark Neil says:

      Not being a father myself, I can’t say for certain, but a few idea’s come to mind…

      1st: Setting expectations low means one is less likely to get ones feelings hurt when those low expectations are met, and moreover, to feel special when the expectations are exceeded. It helps protect, emotionally, their daughters.

      2nd: It has become unacceptable for a man to offer advice to a girl on how to protect herself, with it always being deemed victim shaming. Many men have actually fallen into the belief that it IS victim shaming, but it still remains perfectly acceptable to trash boys, and so, instilling a wearyness of boys produces similar results in the only way they are allowed.

      3rd: They are daddies little girl, and dad doesn’t want to lose his little girl to some other man. Same thing happens with mothers and their sons (though it’s not as acceptable to talk about how bad women are, so you get less of the public women are bad/dangerous speach’s from moms, though if other moms are like mine, there were a few private examples).

      I’m sure there are more I’m not thinking of. I also suspect this is a rather recent phenominon, at least to the degree and one sidedness of it all. I also suspect they aren’t concious choices.

      On the flip side, what about all the slut shaming and slut/stud double standard I hear being blamed on men, when my personal experience suggests it is women far more than men that enforce that dynamic? Perhaps

      • Mark Neil says:

        Didn’t finish my thought…

        Perhaps looking at why we are so willing to denigrate our own genders may help us understand why the other denigrates their own as well, and why those stereotypes are able to thrive so easily?

      • Kdc Phd says:

        I actually did a psychological experiment on this exact “slut” issue. My results demonstrated that just as many men as women judge another woman as being a slut because of the number of men she has slept with. It did not matter if the promiscuous female was sleeping with lawyers, gas station attendants, gorgeous or ambiguous men. So, the idea that mostly women use the term “slut” to denigrate a competitor or increase personal self-esteem was false in addition to the idea that men don’t partake in the denigration. I was only able to remove the slut connotation from being used when I prefaced the description of the promiscuous female with, “it is encouraged in her society to have several sexual experiences.” When the female was described that way, her slut rating was close to zero. Our society simply does not like it when women have several sexual partners because we are raised to believe that women are supposed to be “pure” and therefore, save our virginity for someone “worthy” or “special”. Men, on the other hand, typically are not raised that way. We will not be able to rid this double standard until women and men are raised to believe that sex is not tied to self-worth, whether it be not sleeping around or having several sexual partners.

        • This for the U.S? Could it be different say in Australia? I hear slut mostly said by women when judging other women’s sex lives. The times I hear it said by men is sexual frustration at the fact she won’t sleep with him.

          • “The times I hear it said by men is sexual frustration at the fact she won’t sleep with him.”

            That is interesting. Sort of a bit oxymoronic, really. Personally, I hear it said by men and women as a general insult and as an insult about a woman’s sex life.

        • Mark Neil says:

          You’re welcome to post a link to the methodologies and results of this experiment of yours, otherwise, it just sounds like a counter anecdote to my own. I’m also curious if you honestly believe that “slut shaming” is honestly limited to how many sexual partners a woman has had? Most women identified as “sluts” don’t demonstrate any kind of indication on how many partners they’ve had. It’s not like they walk around with a glowing neon light above their head with their sex partner count.

    • I, too, would LOVE to read that!!

      If any of you fathers reading this would like to write that reaction piece, we’d LOVE to consider it for publication. Great idea, guys.

      Shoot me an email joanna @ Goodmenproject.com

    • “I will not allow my daughter to date before she turns 30, perhaps even not then.”
      “I am going to intimidate and scare any boy who picks my daughter up for a date so they will respect my daughter.”
      And finally the both self-incriminating and thinly veiled boasting: “I know what boys are like.”

      We’ve all heard fathers speak these words. Often in jest, but always with a core of sincerity.
      Words which will turn out to be no help whatsoever to their daughters as it is based on false premises:
      1) Boys are bad and are only after one thing – even at the expense of the girl’s well-being
      2) Sex is always detrimental for a young woman. It’s something taken by a boy from a girl.

      Some fathers speak and teach this and thinks that’ll protect their daughters. It won’t and it in fact can put her more at risk – certainly so if this is the extent of what the father teach the girl about dating, sex and relationship.

      Telling a girl that all boys are bad will soon be proved wrong when she mets a boys she is convinced is good. That sex is detrimental (something that a boy always take from the girl) is a premise which is weakened by her lusting for sex and dispelled when she experiences good sex. When you teach you children something that turns out to be blatantly wrong they are increasingly likely to disregard other things they have learned from you. Things that may be true and useful for them.

      I plan to never utter those phrases and I hope I’ll manage to teach her (and my boy!) an healthy respect and belief in their own boundaries – as set by them. Courage to express and stand by their boundaries and the joie de vivre that can be experienced within one’s own boundaries. Instilling good and correct information about possible consequences and what alternatived there are to affect those possible consequences are an important part of this.

      In short – she’d be better of learning tools to find and recognize a good guy rather than working from the premise that all boys are bad.

      I am aware joie de vivre will include having sex with her boyfriend when they both are ready, consenting and above legal age of consent).

      I am fine with that.

    • I completely agree with you Sarah. If I have a daughter (which I hope I do!) I will teach her about sex the same way I was taught (as a young male).

  12. I liked this article a lot. And I didn’t have a problem with the humour. I thought it was pretty funny. I am disturbed by one thing though…the number of commenters who are offended by the kick in the nuts joke. Now I see the direction in which the men’s movement is heading and I am not happy about it. Your offended at the joke. While I am offended that your offended. I am offended at all of you. Your comments trigger me. I remember soul-destroying, stultifying environment where I couldn’t say what I wanted for fear of offending some easily offended nincompoop. I would like more deeply offensive GMP articles in the future. The only thing wrong about this article is that it is not offensive enough!

    • Assman: “I liked this article a lot. And I didn’t have a problem with the humour. I thought it was pretty funny. I am disturbed by one thing though…the number of commenters who are offended by the kick in the nuts joke.”

      It encourages a woman to be violent against men as some sort of test. In other words, ALL men.

      You have any idea what this promotes? The kind of attitude?

      Forget it. You wouldn’t understand.

  13. Anthony De Luca says:

    Regardless of that joke I do not agree with any of the advice in that article. The author seems to be encouraging his daughter to be self centered and uncaring toward men. I think maybe we find his joke off putting because the context of the article is itself off putting.

  14. Two things :
    One – This article was really funny. I enjoyed reading it and reflecting on the advice, which has some elements of truth and honesty.

    Two – People who comment on here need to get a sense of humor. Not every article on this site involves in-depth sexuality and gender studies. We don’t need to start nitpicking the writer’s humor as being sexist or anti-male. Humor is often offensive in some way, those who can not deal with it can take their righteous asses out of the thread and go find some other article about the intricacies of our existence as men and women.

    • Here’s the thing about humour…if it uses negative social norms as a commentary on those norms, then that’s fine. If it knowingly (or unknowingly) adheres to those negative norms then I think it’s actually still part of the problem, and is actually perpetuating those social norms.

      • Think of it this way, if I were to write a piece about what I’d tell my daughter if she ever brought home a black guy, and used all of these “humorous” stereotypes in that piece, about how if he drives an Escalade he’s probably a drug dealer, and how he’s probably going to be lazy, and he’ll cheat on her, and he probably doesn’t know who his father is, and he probably came from the ghetto and then ended on some comment about black face, as if the only ‘good black man’ is a man who’s not black at all…or something, that’d be flipping racist. Racist jokes are still racist. Same thing here.

    • Jon D: “Two – People who comment on here need to get a sense of humor. Not every article on this site involves in-depth sexuality and gender studies. We don’t need to start nitpicking the writer’s humor as being sexist or anti-male. Humor is often offensive in some way, those who can not deal with it can take their righteous asses out of the thread and go find some other article about the intricacies of our existence as men and women.”

      May I remind you that most of the readers here are men, like me, who have been hurt and abused by women in their life. And we’re talking serious abuse here.

      They are part of the readership whether you like it or not. And they, like me, have a problem with someone promoting a woman kicking a man in the nuts as humor or satire. Some here have been literally kicked in the nuts, or worse, by women they knew.

      There are very few places where they can feel safe to talk about it, nor are there any mainstream sites that are willing to ADDRESS the abuse and the aftermath. This is the only mainstream site that attempts to have a place for them. Or it would if it’d stop excusing articles like this as satire.

      You’re basically asking this readership to suck it in, be men, and if they have problem they can go elsewhere. That means a loss of significant readership.

      You tell a male survivor to suck it in and deal with articles like this, or have a sense of humor, you are erasing them. Painting over them, so to say.

      I have a sense of humor. But not for garbage like this.

    • Jon D writes:
      “Two – People who comment on here need to get a sense of humor.”

      I’ve been commenting since March of 2011 and have never seen an article on tgmp in which the author uses violence against women depicted as satire. Not once.

      I could just as easily say that the author and the commenters defending him need to get some sensitivity.

      If it is wrong to depict violence as funny against women, then it should be so against men. I can understand (but not necessarily) forgive writings or images in mass media as most would consider the masses unenlightened (i.e. the reason why feminists say that there needs to be consciousness raising about rape jokes).

      But those at the tgmp *ARE* supposed to be part of the enlightened few. This is a sight whose purpose is the stories of men (including their pain).

      This article is very much below the threshhold of what I expect from tgmp.

  15. Anthony De Luca says:

    I also thought a joke about a woman attacking a man was in bad taste on this website.

  16. The Bad Man says:

    Bad advice to recommend your daughter assault someone. It’s against the law and she will end up with a criminal record.

  17. The Wet One says:

    Evidently I need to go back to the re-education camp in the Gulag. I thoroughly enjoyed the article. Also, there is some truth behind much of what he says (as facetious as it may be). The thing about wanting to screw every woman that moved, not 100% true, but generally 90-95% true in my experience. Especially when I was young. Heck, even nowadays. Lots of 60 year old women in the office I’d like to take for a ride or two. But, being a committed man, it’s off the table. Still, if I were single, well… I’d chance it. Plus, things get better with experience, so damn! Watch the hell out!

    Anyways, it’s clear that the uptight types have an issue with this article. For my part, I give it 4 of 5 stars. I needed the laugh!

    As for kicking a guy in the nutz, yeah, I can see how that’s offensive, but it works. A sound and certain test that will be highly accurate. It won’t capture the brother of the girl with the dragon tatoo (remember him? Scary effin’ dude that one!), but most other guys, yep, it will defiinitely tell the truth about them not being like other guys.

    • The Wet One: “Anyways, it’s clear that the uptight types have an issue with this article. For my part, I give it 4 of 5 stars. I needed the laugh!”

      Then you’re part of the problem.

      The Wet One: “As for kicking a guy in the nutz, yeah, I can see how that’s offensive, but it works. A sound and certain test that will be highly accurate. It won’t capture the brother of the girl with the dragon tatoo (remember him? Scary effin’ dude that one!), but most other guys, yep, it will defiinitely tell the truth about them not being like other guys.”

      Then you support the abuse of innocent men at the hands of females. You also support the bullying of boys and men by girls and women (like what happened to me!).

  18. Alright…alright…so I get you’re trying to be funny. But this isn’t funny. It’s not funny for the reasons everyone else mentioned…and it’s not funny for this:

    “If he screams, he’s exactly like every other guy. If he doesn’t, he might actually be telling the truth.”

    Wonderful…brilliant. Ha. Ha. He could be trans…and we all know transmen aren’t real men anyway! Normal guys have balls…but a man without balls is hardly a man at all. Right? Am I right?! Hyuk, hyuk.

    • Mark Neil says:

      Ironically, I think it is more about objectifying men… All men are the total of their penis… if they have one, they are like all men and nothing more.

      • Yes, that too…it’s both part of the same thing. If you equate being a man with having the proper genitalia, then you are both objectifying men and dismissing transmen at the same time, really.

        • Mark Neil says:

          Firstly, I didn’t mean to sound like I was dismissing your point. But I think it is more than what you just said. It isn’t just that he is equating being a man with having the right genitals, but he is equating that having the right genitals makes you the EXACT SAME man.

          • Yup…in that sense it’s actually quite similar to the small breasts article and the problem assuming that everyone with certain physical characteristics has the same personality traits. Same thing here, only broader.

  19. Feminist influence has socialized our society into seeing humor in and approval of male victimization and consequent suffering (as is they deserve whateve pain they get) but reactions of horror, outrage, protectiveness, and sympathy toward female victimization and suffering. The stronger the feminist influence the more prevalent this is.

    • I don’t think you know what feminism is.

      • SteveS: “I don’t think you know what feminism is.”

        And what is feminism to you?

        See, I’m beginning to realize there are two feminisms at work currently. There’s the eglitarian side that actually cares about male struggles and issues at the same time as women’s issues. Then there’s the gynocentric side which seems to dominate the discourse a lot, where women’s issues come first and damn the priveledged white male since he is responsible for the oppression of women regardless of whether he’s being battered by his spouse, sexually assaulted and abused by a female predator either in the past as a boy or currently, wants to spend time with his kids but has to jump through hoops with the bigoted Family Court System, etc. Gynocentric’s could care less about that.

        That’s what feminism is to me.

  20. This comment’s likely to be deleted but I don’t care anymore.

    I’d also like to ask the editors and every single preson representing The Good Men Project just what exactly is it about this article that fits their mission priorities?

    If we’re talking about stories intending to show men being good,decent people, how does this drivel accomplish the task? I don’t see anything in this article that befits the standards of what The Good Men Project is all about. All I see is trash masquerading as satire and it’s pretty shallow satire at that. If you’d call it satire. At worse, making light of violence against men. Plus, I’m sick and tired of man-bashing excused as being intended for satire or sarcasm. Seriously, pull the other leg why don’t you? As demonstrated in my response to Brye about jokes like this, yeah would you find it funny if it were talking about women?

    I’d usually find these types of articles on Jezebel, Manboobz, or the many other magazines parading around pretending to be sympathetic to Men’s Issues yet can’t resist dropping a bomb on them for giggles then claim it’s all in good fun when the protestors say otherwise.

    I don’t know, am I crazy for asking this as a male reader and contributor?

    • I’d also like to add, and emphasize even when others have done so, that joking about kicking men in the nuts when they say they’re not like other men, this just makes it incredibly difficult for male survivors of female abuse to even call their experience a serious problem. It also contributes to the prejeduices and ignorance people still possess about female on male violence.

      So no more of this “Have a sense of humor, lighten up. It’s satire” balony please.

      • If it was reverse gendered, manboobz would write an article talking about how misogynist and bad it was. I’m extremely surprised the editors allowed this one through, not even a huge sarcasm tag around the male violence bit. If I was bored enough I’d reword it to reverse the genders and time how long it was before I had a parade of disgusted commentators.

  21. John Schtoll says:

    @theeditors: Would you have even published a list like this if the genders were reversed

    I am being serious, think about it for second.

    If I were to write an article telling a future son that if a woman tells him something that is probably a lie, it is perfectly ok to punch her in the head, (even if it was a joke) , would you publish that.

    A large number of men on this site are working hard to try and get rid of this type of humour, it simply causes and reinforces stereotypes that somehow find their way into LAWS like VAWA.

  22. PsyConomics says:

    I am somewhat inclined to agree with Eagle 34 on this one.

    Do I think the author was writing *serious* advice for a potential future daughter? No, probably not, but there is a definite lack of a certain “bombastic” or “overt satire” quality that would really make this piece work as satire. A good majority of the groundwork is there but there is nothing that signals the author’s political message or intent.

    With one ideological lens it reads as pure hate, with another it reads as pure satire, with no signal as to which lens is appropriate.

    • Psycomics: “Do I think the author was writing *serious* advice for a potential future daughter? No, probably not, but there is a definite lack of a certain “bombastic” or “overt satire” quality that would really make this piece work as satire.”

      Why in the hell is violence against men always excused as satire? Seriously, somebody answer this question and I can’t wait for the excuses to come pouring in.

      For the umpteenth time, you say stuff like this about women, no amount of “It was satire, have a sense of humor” is going to prevent the mob from calling for your head to roll!

      • I don’t think PsyCononomics was trying to excuse this piece as satire. In fact, I thought he was pointing out that it fails even if the author was intending satire. Several times in this comment thread, the word “satire” has been used as a synonym for “humor” or “humorous writing”, which isn’t what satire is. Satire exposes and mocks, it doesn’t celebrate and endorse. Laughing at satire does not mean the person laughing condones the behavior, and in fact usually mean the opposite. Many people at the time didn’t get that Jonathan Swift was being satirical when he suggested eating children to end a famine, but for the readers who got it and laughed, that did no mean they actually endorsed the suggestion.

        This piece seems pretty clearly intended to be humorous, but as PsyC said, there’s no signal that the author was being ironic all along, in order to expose the badness of the advice given. If it had been written like that, then it would be satire.

        • PsyConomics says:

          Thanks Marcus Williams! You got to it before I did :-).

          Williams is right. Given the space I am in, the history of the site, and the goals of the site, I did my best to give the author the benefit of the doubt. In the end I just couldn’t. There is too much wrong and not enough right with this article.

          It does occur that on a more base level Eagle34 and I may disagree with the use of humor/satire in social advocacy in general. Though too for this thread the question of “to what extent can we use humor in advocacy, and if we allow it, what type of humor should be allowed?” would be great for an open thread somewhere.

          • I completly disagree with using a joke about kicking men in the nuts just as a test in social advocacy period. Especially where male survivors like myself is concerned. I was seriously hurt by girls and women (Damn it, do I have to keep repeating myself here?) and I wouldn’t appreciate a joke like that.

            You know, I’m glad I’m now an uncle to a niece (born April 2nd, 2012) because here’s what I’m going to tell her when she eventually reaches that age of understanding:

            “Don’t go around saying all men suck. If a man hurt you or a group of them did, yes be mad at them and come to me to express how you feel. But don’t say ALL men suck. Don’t even joke about hurting them. Give the ones who don’t harm you the same respect they give you. And don’t push a man to give 100% if you fall in love with him. Expect 50% from him and also expect to give your 50% in the relationship.”

            It’s certainly better than the kind of crap that gets peddled as advice these days to women.

        • Mark Neil says:

          I agree that this article was intended to be humorous, but failed to slide into the realm of true satire. That said, even if it did manage to slide into the realm of satire, the nut shot still shouldn’t be considered valid humor (until likewise violence of females is deemed humorous as well).

          We see nut shots every day on TV, where something the guy angers someone, or clumsily walks into something, or completely out of nowhere, an object or “friend” hits them in the sack and they keel over clutching their groin and whimpering. When was the last time you saw anything like that ending in a woman clutching her boob, bent over and slowly spinning to the side that got hit, whimpering how she just got it in the tit? Wouldn’t that be just as funny? And if not, then why is it funny when it happens to men?

          What eagle is saying is, it’s not all right to depict imagery of abusing women, so it shouldn’t be ok against men. I agree, though (and I believe I deviate from eagle a bit here) whether imagery of violence against males for humor decreases, or image of violence against women for humor increases doesn’t matter so much to me, I just don’t like the double standard.

          That said, hurting a man just to identify him as someone with male bits, and deeming that to mean he is just like all the others with male bits… I really don’t see the humor in that, even as satire. Are you the same as me? the same as eagle? The same as Obama, Biden, Romney and Paul? And can that be proven by kicking you in the balls?

          • That’s what galls me and I’ve been trying to say, Mark.

            Double-standards in violence as humor shouldn’t be justified and I’m, frankly, sick and tired of it.

            • PsyC agreed, and now I will too, since I didn’t explicitly say so before, that the kick-in-the-nuts joke in this article was not funny (at least to us). We’re also saying *it wasn’t satire* (or missed the mark if it was trying to be), but that satire – even about horrible things – can be funny. You seem to be saying that no it can’t, which is why I have the same disagreement with people who say there’s nothing funny ever (!) about rape, eating babies, or the Holocaust. All those are terrible things, but I’ve laughed at Louis CK, Jonathan Swift, and Life is Beautiful, without ever worrying that I was condoning rape, baby-eating, or the Holocaust.

              Let’s say there were a group of people I thought hated men and I wanted to mock them. Seeing as how no such group exists, let’s pretend they did and they were known as “testostophobes”. If I wanted to mock testostophobia and its adherents, I might use the rhetorical device of a list of advice from a testostophobe to his/her daughter about men, and fill that list with terrible, hyperbolic advice about men like kicking them in the nuts to see what kind of man they are. If done skillfully, the result would be laughter at the outrageousness of testostophobia, not chuckling about how awesome that advice would be if it was real. Laughter is frequently is based on strong disapproval, which is what people forget who would like to forbid any jokes or satire about ______ .

  23. The Bad Man says:

    Re 7. It might sound offensive, but I like to make women beg for it too.

  24. The Bad Man says:

    I’ll step right past the offensive stuff and get to the point that this list is very poor and insufficient advice.

    Re 8. Dude, you are the primary example and reference point for what she will expect in men.

    11. Don’t be a follower of the fashion borg and dedicate your life to superficially attracting men. You will only be disappointed in yourself.

    12. Love yourself for who you are, not what other people want you to be.

    13. When in doubt, keep your legs closed.

    • wellokaythen says:

      Maybe I’m just too literal, but I never understood the whole “keep your legs closed” thin, or the whole “put an aspirin between your knees” thing. I’ve always thought the phrase showed a distinct lack of imagination. Many women can still have vaginal intercourse with their legs closed. Closing her legs gives her fewer options, certainly, but that’s hardly great advice.

      • ” I’ve always thought the phrase showed a distinct lack of imagination. Many women can still have vaginal intercourse with their legs closed.”

        Well said, wellokaythen! Even though it’s not literally an insulting phrase, there’s just something in the context that screams slut-shaming. We should protest it by all having sexual intercourse with our partners with our legs closed tonight!

      • Thank God, wellokaythen, for you making me laugh today.

  25. There is so much that’s offensive to both men and women that I don’t know where to start. It sure doesn’t belong on the “Good Men” site.

  26. “Just assume that every man you meet from now until you’re, I don’t know, 53(?) would sleep with you if given the opportunity”

    Way to set some healthy standards with stereotypical assumptions. (Sarcasm)

    “When in doubt, break up

    Relationship drama is for grown ups. And by “grown-ups” I mean “old motherfuckers.” If you’re 21 years old, and you and your boyfriend are going through some serious adversity, break the hell up with him. No need to be “working through” anything if you’re still not even old enough to serve in the House of Representatives.

    I know this seems cold, but your youth should be the time when you’re having as much fun as you possibly can, not losing sleep because some janky cat with lint on his lips is going through some depression and you don’t know how to help him. You really want to know the best way to get through to him? Say “deuces” and let him figure that shit out for himself.”

    So don’t bother listening to his side of the story or his feelings that he’s encouraged to share. He’s a jerk, break up with him. He should’ve treated you right from the beginning and you were well justified. Blah blah blah. Once again, putting all the onus on the man and not on both parties.

    “When in dating doubt, always err on the side of making things harder for the guy

    He needs to convince you that he’s worthy of being in your life, not the other way around.”

    Funny how when a man does this, he’s labeled a sexist pig. Meanwhile, it’s a-okay for the woman to walk all over him so he can prove his worthieness.

    “When in relationship doubt, err on the side of making things easier

    You have carte blanche to be a bit of an asshole while you’re single and dating. In fact, I encourage it.”

    Yeah, Grrl Power! You go, girl! Assert your attitude! Men should live with it.

    “I know I’m your father and you love me and shit, but don’t try to date men like me

    I’m an awkward asshole who only tricked your mother into marrying me because I told her the Sultan of Brunei is my second cousin on my dad’s side. Your best strategy would be to avoid all assholes, awkward and, um, unawkward, regardless of how attractive and “unique” they seem to be. You can usually easily spot them, too. They’re the ones who intrigue you and make you feel a little tingly because they literally do not give a fuck about you or anything you do.”

    Projecting your flaws on men as a whole. Typical.

    And especially this here:

    “Throughout life, you’re going to meet men who say things like “I’m not like every other guy.” If you happen across a man like this, kick him in the nuts.

    If he screams, he’s exactly like every other guy. If he doesn’t, he might actually be telling the truth.”

    So you actually promote the physical suffering of a man if he should quantify himself? To recommend physical violence against a man for nothing other than to test him out?

    I’m not going to get any further into this regarding my situation since I’ll sound like a broken record. Needless to say, as a male survivor of female abuse, you’re not helping one bit with these values you’re passing down.

    Also, I’m not like other guys either. Are you going have her kick me in the nuts for it as well?

    Joanna: “If you look at Damon’s other work both here on GMP and on Very Smart Brothas, you will understand that this is Damn’s humor. He would clearly never advocate for someone to commit an act of violence.”

    But he just did, Joanna.

    Besides, its sickens me you find the humor in stuff like this.

    • Well we could ask Joanna if she thinks people laughing at rape are still humorous? It’s a form of violence and rape jokes are mostly made for light-hearted humor over serious subjects, such as this one…

      I find humor in some dark shit but that’s generally part of my coping mechanism and the attempt to laugh at nearly everything I can, but I wouldn’t be publically posting it as it’s not good for some victims of assault to see stuff like that. I myself can laugh at some shit I’ve been through but it’s only with trusted people who I know are just bullshitting around. Humor is weird though, I’ve seen many laugh at sick shit but maybe that’s the way some of us deal with it. Either way we can laugh at various shit but still be extremely serious when the situation isn’t a joke.

      • Archy: “I find humor in some dark shit but that’s generally part of my coping mechanism and the attempt to laugh at nearly everything I can, but I wouldn’t be publically posting it as it’s not good for some victims of assault to see stuff like that. I myself can laugh at some shit I’ve been through but it’s only with trusted people who I know are just bullshitting around. Humor is weird though, I’ve seen many laugh at sick shit but maybe that’s the way some of us deal with it. Either way we can laugh at various shit but still be extremely serious when the situation isn’t a joke.”

        Yeah, I can laugh at dark satire as well. I’m not some humorless bore who can’t lighten his mood with comedy and jests. In fact, part of my storytelling involves dark satire.

        This, though, I can’t excuse it. There are way too many articles like this out there that hide behind satire in order to excuse things done to men that, were it done to a woman, would be called sick torture and violence.

        Yes, I like me some great humor. But not this at a time when I’ve found out just how serious the abuse from females and girls was at the age of thirty-two.

        • Yup, I understand somewhat. Hence why I keep my dark humor restricted and why I believe it needs to be restricted, not out in the open on a site for men who some have been through it. It’s the fact that it’s in an article on a site that has very legitimate purposes which I find troubling, a while ago we had articles on male victims of abuse and now these jokes? Time and place for everything!

  27. Jamie Parsons says:

    Ok, so this is just a completely sarcastic article right?

  28. “Just assume that every man you meet from now until you’re, I don’t know, 53(?) would sleep with you if given the opportunity.”

    It’s this lie that results in a huge amount of men getting raped every year and either not being believed or being mocked when it’s made known. This piece is utterly awful and utterly useless.

  29. sweetsue says:

    I love this! Laughed myself silly! For the record I do not get along well with other women unless they get number one. 🙂 At some point Daddy issues or Mommy issues stop being their responsibility. It stinks that you inherited a dysfunctional legacy. Life is not fair and we all have a legacy of dysfunctionality – welcome to earth third rock from the sun. Own your issues and learn to live with it and not let it define you.

    Classic – truth in humor!

  30. wellokaythen says:

    Love the strike-out section followed by “church.” Priceless.

    Umm…”ask one of your white classmates”? Is this a comment about black women not talking about you-know-what? I was unaware that such a stereotype existed. Or are you thinking she’ll be going to a college without many black classmates? (I know, if you have to explain the joke it’s not funny anymore.)

    • Joanna Schroeder says:

      I too almost died laughing at the OCB cross-out.

    • Yeah, what the hell was that?

      Vegies are good for health reasons (don’t reinforce beauty as a goal), and no gender should have to work harder than another.

  31. Transhuman says:

    “10. Throughout life, you’re going to meet men who say things like “I’m not like every other guy.” If you happen across a man like this, kick him in the nuts.

    If he screams, he’s exactly like every other guy. If he doesn’t, he might actually be telling the truth.”

    Why is it considered humour to describe attacking a man? If you are serious, which I hope you are not, your daughter is in for some hospital bills when a liberated man, who is not like others because he will hit a woman who attacks him, hits her back. Hard.

    • Joanna Schroeder says:

      If you look at Damon’s other work both here on GMP and on Very Smart Brothas, you will understand that this is Damn’s humor. He would clearly never advocate for someone to commit an act of violence.

      • Transhuman says:

        Then my question remains, on a site called the Good Men Project, why do writers promote humour involving violence against men by women? Is it equally funny to suggest that I’d tell my son that if his girlfriend talks back to him he should knock her unconscious? Somehow I doubt that would be seen as funny.

        • Bryn Palmer says:

          Because it’s funny, to everyone but you.

          • Bryn: “Because it’s funny, to everyone but you.”

            Why is funny to everyone but him? And me for that matter?

            • Bryn Palmer says:

              Because it’s a joke? Something you say to lighten the mood? Nothing serious at all, and anyone that reads this knows that, why are you taking it so seriously?

              • Transhuman says:

                Then I look forward to the jokes that are about men beating women…you go first.

                • By the way, it’s figurative as well.

                  Think of it this way: Damon’s saying that a guy who says, “I’m not like other guys” is using a pick up line. And it’s SUCH a common pick up line that it has become a symbol of the fact that the guy saying it IS actually EXACTLY like other guys.

                  If he weren’t just like other guys, his actions would show he’s not like other guys and he wouldn’t have to be a cheesedick and ply her with stupid lines.

                  Now, when you read that, you’re thinking to yourself Wait, I actually am not like other guys! and I would actually believe all of you. Because you’re clearly saying things different from mainstream media and the majority of men.

                  However, I can guarantee you none of you use this as a “line” to pick up girls (which is what Damon’s talking about).

                  And if you do, stop it. No one buys it. Show the people you’re interested in that you’re not like “other guys” by just being yourself.

                  Does that make sense? He’s talking about guys who use pick up lines.

                  • Joanna: “Think of it this way: Damon’s saying that a guy who says, “I’m not like other guys” is using a pick up line. And it’s SUCH a common pick up line that it has become a symbol of the fact that the guy saying it IS actually EXACTLY like other guys.”

                    How would you know though? Have you actually allowed him to prove that he’s not like other guys because dismissing it as a symbol that he’s like other guys from the outset as a “Pick up Line” is invalidation. You’re not even giving him a CHANCE to prove himself with this mentality only setting yourself up for dissappointment.

                    Besides, does this really warrant kicking the guy in the nuts? For the millionth time, reverse the genders and tell me that this sort of response to women who say “I’m not like other women” is warranted.

                  • Mark Neil says:

                    “However, I can guarantee you none of you use this as a “line” to pick up girls (which is what Damon’s talking about).”

                    Except the author didn’t limit it to being used as a pick up line, simply saying it results in a kick to the nads, and I know I’ve said it a few times (usually when I’m told I must like fake boobs, all guys like fake boobs, to which I respond, I doubt that very much, but even if it where true, just means …fill in the blank).

                    “Does that make sense?”

                    None of it explains or justifies the kick in the gonads

                  • I say I’m not like other guys simply because I am me, unique, we all are. There can be similarities but not everyone is the same. Would that be included?

              • Bryn: “Because it’s a joke? Something you say to lighten the mood? Nothing serious at all, and anyone that reads this knows that, why are you taking it so seriously?”

                Okay, fine. I’ll lighten up and have a sense of humor. In fact, I’ve got a joke too. Here it goes:

                “Throughout life, you’re going to meet women who say things like “I’m not like every other woman.” If you happen across a woman like this like this, beat her black and blue.

                If she screams and thrashes about, she’s exactly like every other girl. If she doesn’t, she might actually be telling the truth and know where she stands in the relationship.”

                There you go. You laughing now?

              • “Because it’s funny, to everyone but you.”
                “Because it’s a joke? Something you say to lighten the mood? Nothing serious at all, and anyone that reads this knows that, why are you taking it so seriously?”

                “Throughout life, you’re going to meet women who say things like “I’m not like every other woman.” If you happen across a woman like this like this, kick her in the groin.

                Ha ha so funnaayyy. But seriously please realize the GMP has men who’ve been abused by women so the light-hearted humor of violence can be quite triggering and serious. Would you laugh at rape jokes too? They’re not serious, just something to lighten the mood as well (cue those who will try to explain how rape jokes and other violence jokes are vastly different and not comparable). Part of humor is to be careful of the audience you speak to and be aware that it can be extremely offensive.

                You don’t go telling jokes about beating your wife in a domestic violence shelter full of women do you? Believe it or not but men do get hit by women, even kicked in the nuts as a game in some cases, but this acceptance of female violence towards men needs to end and it doesn’t help to see jokes about violence on a site with victims of violence.

                • Mark Neil says:

                  I think a good backhand is more amusing than a groin kick, but nothing says funny like a solid punch in the boob

                  :/

                  • Here’s one!! I thought of one mainstream media joke that was violent against women that everyone liked!!

                    “I’m going to punch you in the ovary.”

                    Who can name the film??!!

                    • Anchorman. How the hell do you punch someone in the ovary, that “joke” would confuse the hell out of me.

                      Wouldn’t a punch to the vulva cause considerable pain and be considered the equivalent? I’m sure all exposed nerves of the clitoris especially must hurt like crazy when hit. It’s the place I’ve heard people talk about in comparison, there’s a vile term that is Cword Punt as well that is used.

                    • Mark Neil says:

                      I’m impressed, I’ll be even more impressed if you can find an example of actual violence, not just the threat of it. A man getting kicked/hit/run into/shot in the nuts is what is typically deemed funny.. The threat of it is really nothing, because the actual act has become so acceptable as humor that a threat of it is rather anti-climatic. The last violence scene I can remember was from Airplane(1980) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0GW0Vnr9Yc

          • If we’re starting a list of who thought that “joke” (if we can call it that) was and was not funny, add me to the ‘Not Funny’ pile.

            The stricken-out joke was funny. The offensive male portrayal and targeted violence. Was. Not.

            • Add one more to the not funny list.
              TGMP steered way off course with this one.

              It just goes to show you even among those who make it their mission to hear stories about male pain and misery are still not as above the masses as they think when they accept violence against men as comedy, and then try to defend the indefensible.

            • Mark Neil says:

              Ditto

              • Transhuman says:

                I note the jokes about women submitted in response to this artcle have been removed… double standard much?:

                • Transhuman says:

                  *article*

                • I had a post deleted for no reason I can fathom other than making too good a point.

                  I just emailed Tom and Lisa a complaint and recommend anybody else who has a problem with this post to do so as well.

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