Sexual brain training matters—especially during adolescence.
Editor’s Note: The comments quoted throughout this piece were taken from the comments sections of posts and message board conversations where men were talking about sex.
It’s normal for kids to want to learn all about sex, especially during puberty and adolescence when reproduction becomes the brain’s top priority. For this we can thank the specifics of teen-brain development.
Think of an adolescent jungle primate watching another band with such fascination that he (or she, in some species) leaves his companions, and endures the slings and arrows of being without allies at the bottom of another troup’s pecking order—all for a chance to get it on with exotic hotties in the future. The things our genes do to guarantee genetic diversity!
Now, fast-forward to a young guy discovering the mind-boggling novelty of Internet erotica:
I started looking at Internet porn when I was 11. I immediately became hooked, and spent hours daily viewing porn. Simply seeing a pair of exposed breasts was enough to get me off. But desensitization soon kicked in, and I began developing fetishes to get the same hit from porn. It started out with different ethnicities, then lesbians, then watersports, then scat/beastiality/BDSM/tranny, and then any combination of the above to create the sickest porn imaginable. I can remember sitting in school fantasizing about sick porn that I could search for that night.
What is it about the adolescent brain that makes this guy’s experience not unusual? Answer: During adolescence a temporary neurological imbalance develops. The “sex, drugs and rock & roll” part of the brain is in overdrive. The “let’s give this some thought” part is still under construction, and won’t reach maturity until adulthood.
This recipe for impulsive and risky behavior rearranges other adolescent-mammal brains too. It is evolution’s way of driving the brash independence many young mammals need as they seek mates and carve out territories. In the brain’s cost-benefit analysis, the scale is tipping heavily in the direction of possible rewards.
There’s a kicker though. The capacity of our teen to wire up new sexual associations mushrooms around 11 or 12 when billions of new neural connections (synapses) create endless possibilities. However, by adulthood, his brain must prune his neural circuitry to leave him with a manageable assortment of choices. By his twenties, he may not exactly be stuck with the sexual proclivities he falls into during adolescence, but they can be like deep ruts in his brain—not easy to ignore or reconfigure.
Sexual-cue exposure matters more during adolescence than at any other time in life. Now, add to this incendiary reality the lighter fluid of today’s off-the-wall erotica available at the tap of a finger. Is it any surprise that some teens wire semi-permanently to constant cyber novelty instead of potential mates? Or wire their sexual responsiveness to things that are unrelated to their sexual orientation? Or manage to desensitize their brains—and spiral into porn addiction?
Incidentally, are you a guy remembering your own adolescence—and how you could never climax enough during those years? Perhaps you’re supposing that Internet porn would have been a splendid innovation. If so, read these two articles: Porn, Novelty and the Coolidge Effect and Porn Then and Now: Welcome to Brain Training. Porn, its content, the way it’s delivered, and its potential effects on the brain have changed radically. For today’s users, more orgasm can lead to less satisfaction.
Teen brains differ from adult brains
When we dug into the brain research on adolescents, we were astonished at how malleable teen brains are. Radical changes in the sexual environment hit them hardest. Here are four vulnerabilities unique to teen brains:
1. Much stronger “Go get it!” signals
The reward circuitry is the core of all drives (including libido), emotions, likes, dislikes, motivation…and addiction. In adolescence, sex hormones propel this ancient circuitry into a window of hyperactivity, which subsides by the early twenties. As journalist David Dobbs explains:
We all like new and exciting things, but we never value them more highly than we do during adolescence. Here we hit a high in what behavioral scientists call sensation seeking: the hunt for the neural buzz, the jolt of the unusual or unexpected. … This love of the thrill peaks at around age 15.
The brain’s sensitivity to dopamine, the “Gotta get it!” neurochemical crests, which spurs novelty seeking, overrides executive control, and helps consolidate learning and habits. In fact, teen brains respond to anything perceived as exciting with two-to-four times the reward-circuitry activation of adults, thanks to their extra dopamine sensitivity. Both novelty and searching/seeking spike dopamine in all human brains, but cyber erotica’s endless possibilities prove an irresistible lure for many teens.
The first time I looked at those hot pictures the feeling seemed to be out of this world, just ineffable. Suddenly I knew there was something worth living for, everything else was just boring, everyday life. I fled to this artificial drug: porn and masturbation. It was not unusual to watch porn for hours a day.
“Ineffable?” Yes. Teens are more likely to register sexual arousal, and other highs, as transcendental, memorable experiences. That is why you can still recall the shimmering details of that first centerfold. But there’s more evidence of hypersensitivity to thrills:
Alas, their heightened sensitivity to reward automatically renders teens more susceptible to addiction than if they encountered the same thrills later in life.
2. Decreased sensitivity to aversion
Having spent Friday night playing “World of Warcraft” until 4AM, while washing down eight slices of pizza and a bag of Doritos with a six-pack of Mountain Dew, our hero is ready to do it all again come Saturday night. Research shows that teens are less deterred by symptoms of excess. Aversion is a reward-circuitry function, and teens can handle more wattage before their circuits overload
Ever wonder why Slasher + Teens (sex) = Summer Box-Office Hit? It all comes down to the marvels of the brain. No wonder porn images that adults find shocking, “eeeew,” or violent, register as abnormally exciting to teens. Also keep in mind that teens are less able to take other people’s feelings into account (even bad actors).
When I was 14/15, I encountered she-male porn while surfing the Internet. I still remember the graphic nature of the advert. Something just snapped in my pubescent brain. All the straight and lesbian porn I had watched for several years seemed ordinary. My heart started racing. My head was thumping, and the fear of getting caught…not just watching porn, but watching what some could consider not exactly 100% straight porn…made it all the more memorable. I remember crying after I finished. I didn’t know what came over me. I was so terrified I wanted to curl up into a ball in my bedroom. But I didn’t stop watching it. I was still attracted to girls, but with the she-male porn, I could orgasm quicker.
3. Weaker “Stop!” signals
The sex hormones that initiate teen sensitivity to thrills unfortunately do nothing to speed up development of their brain’s self-control center. A teen brain is like a new car with a Ferrari engine and Ford Pinto brakes.
At puberty, an extremely reactive “accelerator” comes online: the brain’s emotion-motivation mechanism, or reward circuitry, located below the rational cortex. It overpowers the “brakes,” the brain’s “CEO” or prefrontal cortex in the forehead, which won’t fully mature for a decade. The latter assesses risk, thinks ahead, chooses priorities, allocates attention and controls impulses.
Meanwhile, teens often base their choices on their emotional impulses as opposed to reasoning or planning. Later, as the prefrontal cortex matures, there will be fewer “I can’t believe he did that” moments. Teens make sounder judgments and modulate mood, plan and remember more effectively.
In the meantime, teens have trouble perceiving the consequences of “going for it.” Again, this is no accident. Daredevil tendencies during adolescence serve species that must take risks then to strike out on their own or find mates. In the case of adolescent humans, evolution has simply not had time to adapt to the hazards of recreational drugs, fast cars, or excessive consumption of junk food, online gaming, or Internet porn. That’s why we have the Darwin Awards.
4. Extreme neuronal growth followed by pruning
Human brains go through two stages of dramatic neuronal growth: one in utero and throughout the first several months of life, the other between the ages of 10 and 13—just when most boys (and now, many girls) begin to look at Internet porn. Ideally, during this critical developmental period, we humans are exposed to age-appropriate sexual behavior. We learn how to flirt and connect with potential partners.
This second burst of neuronal activity entails first multiplication and then subtraction of neural connections. No wonder mood swings are a hallmark of adolescence! Together, genes and environment sculpt the clay of a teen’s frontal cortex. As use-it-or-lose-it proceeds, the brain reorganizes and fine-tunes itself:
The cortex prunes away little used circuits, while strengthening well worn neural pathways. Nerve cell axons in favored pathways become better insulated with myelin, increasing the speed of nerve impulses. Little branches that receive messages (called dendrites) grow like vines to better hear the incoming signal. The connections between axons and dendrite (synapses) multiply on strong circuits and vanish on weaker ones. In the end you have memories, skills, habits, preferences and ways of coping that stand the test of time. (ibid., Dobbs, emphasis added)
In less glowing terms, we restrict our options—without realizing how critical our choices were during our final, pubescent, neuronal growth spurt. According to researcher Jay Giedd:
If a teen is doing music or sports or academics, those are the cells and connections that will be hardwired. If they’re lying on the couch or playing video games or MTV [or Internet porn], those are the cells and connections that are going to survive.
This is one reason why polls asking teens how Internet porn use is affecting them are unlikely to reveal the extent of porn’s effects. Kids who have never masturbated without porn have no idea how it is affecting them. (It’s like asking them, “How has being male affected you?”) They have nothing to compare with.
Keep in mind that older porn users often do not connect their porn-related symptoms with heavy porn use—even when they develop porn-induced sexual dysfunction (PISD). Porn always seems like the “cure,” because even if they can’t get it up for sex, they can usually get it up if they watch enough extreme porn. Can we expect teens to figure it out?
Same problem with asking teens about porn’s effects on mood. Users always “feel better” when using, even if the more they use, the worse they feel overall. So why would porn be seen as the problem? Moreover, when users try to quit, they sometimes face weeks of severe withdrawal symptoms, so controlling use can be mistaken for the problem instead of the solution.
Fact is, most heavy users who are going to hit a wall from excess, don’t do so until their twenties—just about the time their reward circuitry has curtailed its hypersensitivity. For example, by adulthood, dopamine receptors in the reward circuitry gradually decrease by a third or a half. Now, thrills aren’t as thrilling, and the consequences of excess are more disconcerting. Once nature’s foot is off the reward accelerator, it’s time for a hunter-gatherer to settle down and raise some youngins.
No birds or bees, just pixels please
Meanwhile, the adolescent brain is ripe for a perfect storm as the genetically driven hunt for novelty and the unexpected collides with the endless erotica of the Internet. Hypnotic Web-surfing—requiring no effort but scrolling and fapping—replaces leaving one’s tribe to search the savannah for fertile mates.
When I was 18, I had sex for the first time. When she said she was “down all the way”, I ran to the nearest store to pick up condoms like I had the Reaper chasing me. After the deed, my thoughts were, “Hmm…it didn’t feel that much different from masturbation, and it required a hell of a lot more work! Meh, I’ll stick to porn and not bother with a girlfriend.”
Another guy responded:
My thoughts EXACTLY. Just back pain, muscle strain, breathlessness, sweatiness and performance anxiety. MUCH less stress to just crack one off, plus you got your own ‘Iron Fist’ that gets you off better than that real vagina. Not only that, you always get a ‘good visual’ with a ‘porn girlfriend.’ You can see all those beautiful body contours in perfect lighting, breasts n’ butts n’ thighs look glorious, and *always* visible. In real life that’s rarely the case. The first time I did it, I didn’t truly enjoy it (even though we both came a lot). My first time should’ve felt like a TRIUMPH, given how ‘successful’ it was, but it felt artificial. It was then I KNEW there was perhaps something a tad wrong. The sex in my *mind* always seemed sexy and enjoyable. The *real* sex I had was primarily industrial and unexciting. Not good.
Today’s teens sometimes wire their arousal to Internet porn’s unnaturally intense, synthetic stimuli for as long as a decade before they try to connect with real partners. (See pages of self-reports of adolescent porn use.) The situation is even more precarious if a teen’s innocent pursuit of jollies has led to more fundamental brain changes, i.e., addiction. Again, teens are more susceptible to addiction than adults, due to their hyperactive reward circuitry and immature executive control.
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About Gary Wilson & Marnia Robinson
Here is a good cognitive neuroscience article in Discovery comparing ACC versus amygdala of liberal versus conservative people. It may help explain some of the discussions on this thread.
blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/09/07/your-brain-on-politics-the-cognitive-neuroscience-of-liberals-and-conservatives/
Secondly, assuming all this to be indeed true, I suggest we tackle the much more prevalent and addictive interaction with violence (video games, television, religion etc), for frequency wise, I’m quite certain it dwarfs any and all teen use compared to the watching of pornography.
Lastly, it is claimed that the addictive nature of rock and roll, shaped all boomer brains into behaving and acting like Mick Jagger. I know my own parents do involuntary displays of the chicken dance without much relief or satisfaction. My more immediate worry centers around the addictive mixing of video game violence with Justin Bieber music. The devil spawn from that union terrifies the crap out of me.
Could you be a bit more specific? Who’s conservative? Certainly not us. We run a science-based website. We’re not religious, not trying to ban porn, and in favor of free speech. We just also happen to be in favor of better education about the brain and the effects of superstimuli.
Keep in mind that the reward circuitry of the brain evolved to drive sex. This drive is being hijacked by today’s porn. The purpose of adolescence is to propel us toward mating…not to look for Mick Jagger or Justin Bieber. 100% of all humans enjoy sexual feelings, but, sadly, only a small percentage enjoy the Stones.
According to your bios, you have very sepcific ideas regarding what is good sex and whaty is bad sex. I’d call that an ideological point of view.
I would also suggest that you read more widely into human evolutionary history. Sex, for us, has never been a simple drive. We a re a very unusual species, sexually speaking. Sex has been wired into our basic structures of sociability for at least 250,000 years and when that occurred, it stopped being simply, directly, about reproduction, folks.
Steven Hawkins isn’t going to pass on his genes (at least not in the normal sense). Nevertheless, his theories and work have given us, as a species, a tremendous evolutionary advantage (that we still need to cash in on, admittedly). Once we became symbol-wielding, social animals, we became super-organic. Your attempt to define sex as a purely biological urge in humans is as sterile as an attempt to create life by combining the proper elements in a pot.
THAD: Once we became symbol-wielding, social animals, we became super-organic.
We became “super-organic”?? What does that mean? Are you saying that humans no longer follow the rules of biology or evolution or chemistry? Talk about needing research to back up a claim. This will be news to everyone engaged in the hard sciences
THAD: Your attempt to define sex as a purely biological urge in humans is as sterile as an attempt to create life by combining the proper elements in a pot.
I can’t really follow this, but no biologist would agree. Sex is a biological urge. One can do something as simple as block dopamine in the brain, and all sexual urges completely disappear. That’s biological.
Also, regarding “conservativism”: you apparently believe that the changes in behavior now occurring due to new technologies are negative and that things in the past were measureably better.
Can’t get much closer to a dictionary definition of “conservative” than that, folks.
Thaddeus,
You still don’t understand the basics: all addictions arise from the same fundamental brain changes. You’re also ignoring the elephant in the room. Addiction researchers and medical doctors at ASAM and NIDA *have already determined* that sexual behavior addictions exist. They did so because *all* addictions have such a similar signature as a matter of brain science. The behaviors, signs and symptoms that accompany addiction signify that physiological, measurable brain changes have occurred. As we’ve said, the brain research on porn addicts may never be done due to the absence of suitable control groups.
Back to your critique of this one section:
First: The section uou cherry picked is just one of 22 sections of research on our site. Only 17 studies and articles out of several hundred studies
Second: In addiction to the 22 sections you ignored, 100′s of cited studies are scattered amongst the hundreds of pages and articles you chose to ignore
Third: most of the research we cite in our articles (as we did in the above article) is off site. Our website contains only a handful of the thousands of papers covering relevant addiction research.
Fourth: We have only used a few of the 17 studies in this section. Like ASAM, we rely on hundreds of studies related to behavioral addictions.
Fifth, and most important: We’d venture to say that ASAM and NIDA didn’t rely on the research you’ve addressed above in drawing their conclusions about sexual behavior addictions. ASAM relied on thousands of studies over thirty years of brain research pointing to the exact same physiological changes in behavioral addiction as are found in drug and alcohol addiction.
You can keep fighting this battle by choosing straw men and carping away, but the war is over. Those who know the most about addiction have already determined sexual addictions are real. Note that sex is mentioned 10 times in ASAM’s new definition and FAQ’s – more than all addictive drugs combined. Gary and Marnia didn’t decide this. We’re just helping others to realize that porn, while not “evil,” is also not harmless for some users—and that adolescents appear to be particularly at risk due to extra brain plasticity.
1. Feel free to discuss the substance of our article, which is about adolescent-brain vulnerability. (None of your critiqued studies are cited in this article)
2. Address the research we actually cite in our articles
3. If you disagree with the experts (American Society for Addiction Medicine), please provide the research you’re relying on.
The following three links cover the ASAM defintion of addiction:
The Definition of Addiction by ASAM -
http://www.asam.org/DefinitionofAddiction-LongVersion.html
Definition of Addiction: Frequently Asked Questions
http://www.asam.org/pdf/Advocacy/20110816_DefofAddiction-FAQs.pdf
ASAM Press Release
http://www.asam.org/pdf/Advocacy/PressReleases/20110815_DefofAddiction-PR.pdf
PS – I find it ironic that you scream for peer-reviewed research, and scream for “science”, but ignore both. We provide resarch for this article, and for the articles with embedded links. In essence each article leads to another, totaling about fifty, all backed by solid research.
More importantly, you ignore ASAM’s definition, which depended upon thousands of peer-reviewed studies.
The ironic part is that you would not be allowed to peer review any research studies published by ASAM members.
Let’s get one thing straight about ad hominems, folks…
An ad hominem attack ignores the logic of what a person says for an attack on their character.
When a person has set themselves up as a self-described expert in a very complex field and routinely writes books and articles about said field, making alarmist claims that are not supported by the data she cites, then her credentials SHOULD be called into question. ESPECIALLY if her repeated response to any critique is “You don’t know as much as I do about addiction so go away and don’t come back until you’ve learned more”.
To question such a person’s expertise is not an ad hominem: it’s simple common sense.
Marnia is an ex-corporate lawyer, trying to create a wave of moral panic which she can then surf as an “expert” – for pay, of course. Her husband is a nursing student.
These folks aren’t experts in their chosen topic, y’all: they’re snake oil salesmen.
Sorry Thad, we work for free, and Gary has taught in various places, including the local university.
Due to a fluke of search engine fate, we have been listening to the woes of guys struggling to recover from Internet porn addiction since highspeed became universal, half a dozen years ago. Since founding http://www.yourbrainonporn.com we’ve also been listening to men on hundreds of other sites in 25 different countries struggling with the same issues.
What they’ve all been learning is so important that we share it in our blogs. We don’t claim to be experts, just journalists with a solid understanding of the recent neuroscience that can help porn addicts understand what they’re dealing with.
Our impression is that you can’t address the substance of our post, so you’re choosing to attack us for some reason. Do you believe porn addiction doesn’t exist? Are you confident that kids are not at risk? What is your agenda here?
I very much doubt that you “work for free”,. You are paid in prestige, if not coin and your book and columns should at least garnish you some speaking engagements, travel ventures and etc. No intellectual “works for free”, even if they don’t have a fixed salary, so please save that crap for people who think a 9-5 job is the epitome of labor.
As for Gary’s labor in a local university: whiuch school would that be and why isn’t he teaching there now if, aside from being a kick-ass professional in the field he’s been trained in, he’s also an autodidact when it comes to neuroscience?
Its nice that you’re listening to people. What I am questioning is your training and consequent ability to analyze such testimony and transform it into scientifically significant data in the field you claim expertise in: neuroscience.
Just from your responses here, I think it’s safe to say you’ve had exactly zero training in the history and sociology of sexuality. Zero or next to zero training in ethnographic data collection and analysis. Zero or next to zero training in recovering and analyziung case histories, life histories, oral histories…
In short, your “work” is about as scientific and systematic as my banging around on my houses pipes and calling it “plumbing” would be.
“We don’t claim to be experts, just journalists…”
But, apparently, “journalists” with no training in that field and no ethical commitment to competently and correctly reporting the science you are supposedly writing about.
My agenda, as you put it, is to root radical claims about human sexuality in evidence. A LOT of evidence. Evidence which has been generated by LARGE studies with DIVERSE respondents and which has given us REPRODUCIBLE data. None of which applies to the bullshit that you people have claimed above.
You are not reporting science: you are freely theoretizing about politically touchy (and therefore potentially lucrative) topics based on a handful of very iffy and so far unreproducible studies – studies whose very authors caution about, cautions which you blithely ignore.
You’re not scientists: you’re snakeoil salemen engaged in performing a self-proclaimed chataqua whose only purpose is to generate a wave or moral panic which you will presumably cash in on.
My “agenda”, such as it is, is to keep science science and to debunk the pet theories of self-proclaimed experts who want to use the studies of others in order to promote their own socio-political agendas.
You are free to attack my work in a similar fashion Gary/Marnia, but there’s one very big difference between what I do and what you do: my claims and proofs need to pass peer review in order to get published. As self-taught, self-punlished lawyers-cum-nursing-students-cum-neuroscientists-cum-journalists, you can make up any old thing you want and CALL it science. It’s not like most people can tell the difference, so my prediction is that you’ll have a very lucrative – if necessarily short – career in the snakeoil business.
Why short?
Because – as has been the case with every porn panic in the past – when the drastic “perfect storm” claims you make DON’T actually occur and peoples’ sexual business goes on much as before, your work is going to be tossed on the trash-heap of history as one more in a series of examples of how you can pretty much sell anything to Americans as long as you couch it as a sexual threat to their children.
The thing is you haven’t attacked our work, only us. You cite absolutely no research to back up any claims. You have also ignored that that the top addiction experts in the US (ASAM) have announced that sexual behavior addictions exist. Just keep ignoring the real experts.
http://www.asam.org/pdf/Advocacy/20110816_DefofAddiction-FAQs.pdf
You have ignored that the Head of NIDA, Nora Volkow, has stated that porn addiction exists. You run away from my previous post which contains six studies confirming that Internet addiction causes brain changes similar to those found in drug addicts. Most importantly you have yet to refute the basic premise of this article (which is confirmed by research) that adolescents are especially vulnerable to addictive changes.
Your strongest piece of “evidence” is that the last DSM, which was published in 1994 does not list porn addiction. Oh yeah, this is the same DSM that listed homosexuality as a mental disorder.
DSM-III delisted homosexuality and instead had ego-dystonic homosexuality (if you don’t want to be gay). DSM-IV has neither.
Thad, we’re not writing for academic journals; we’re bloggers. As bloggers, our job is to share carefully thought out, hopefully interesting, perspectives about topical subjects. In our case, we began doing this in hopes that experts would, in fact, do the necessary research. Since then, we’ve learned why they simply can’t…no control groups, no permission to expose adolescents to hardcore porn, etc.
We blog as responsibly as we can. Porn use among guys today is a subject we happen to know a lot about…secondhand. More than we ever wanted to know, in fact.
As researchers can’t do the research that would reveal the phenomena we’re hearing about on many online forums, and since the guys suffering don’t really have a voice…because for some strange reason they aren’t too eager to discuss their porn-related sexual performance problems using their real names…we reluctantly decided to share what they’re going through. Believe me, if we were interested in cashing in or building a reputation, this would not be our choice of fields. *chuckle*
If you have problems with the science on which we base our conclusions–conclusions shared by addiction experts–you simply haven’t raised them. Maybe you’re the one not qualified to be debating here.
Thudious-
I see that you are an adjunct professor from a school in Brazil. What exactly are your credentials that entitle you to assert such denial and skepticism, without any ‘science’ to support it, and in direct denial of addiction specialists with advanced credentials that are actually in the field of this discussion? If this is how you wrote your thesis and how you show respect to other professionals then I would question the merit of your education, as well as denounce your opinion. Is that the definition of ad hominem or is that merely a question of validation?
Excellent article. I’m 25, and was exposed to porn in my early teens, although I didn’t get into heavy it until my late teens. I believe that the early exposure made me want to seek it out when I was living on my own, which then led to a porn addiction. Little did I know it was a porn addiction until I discovered some articles by Gary and Marnia. I wish I had read this as a teen. But I’m glad that today’s adolescents may by chance stumble upon this info. Kudos to Gary and Marnia.
They know a hell of a lot more than your average psych. P screws with your brain, relationships and life. End of.
As Garnia has now claimed at least three times that I haven’t addressed the substance of their article (when in fact I’ve not only addressed it, I’ve stamped and mailed the sucker and evn put it through customs already), let me make my point clearly once again (sorry that this is a repeat):
1) There is no good or conclusive evidence that internet porn (which Garnia has never defined, by the way) works on the brain in any manner different from other sorts of porn. Very few studies have been done about this and the ones that have have very low numbers of subjects, no random selection of subjects and often display HUGE assumptions (just one instance: why should we assume that different structures in pedophiles’ brains were caused by pedophilia and not by, say, the experience of being locked in a featureless box for months or years on end? Or by the experience of socially inculcated guilt?)
2) Addiction, as defined by the ASAM, contradicts DSM-V on several points and is also functionally indistinguishable from several non-adictive but socially stigmatized behaviors (as a couple of Garnia’s cited authors point out).
3) We do not have good data that anything fundamental is changing in young male sexuality. Self-reporting is a very bad tool for this sort of thing as people will report whatever’s foremost in their minds. In a world where Viagra ads run during the Superbowl, I think it’s safe to say that young men will be reporting “erectile problems” at a much higher level than ever before simply because they PERCEIVE them more. That hypothesis has to be discarded before we can say anything about a presumptive link between increased porn and increased ED.
4) Given the points above, Garnia’s claim that a “perfect storm” is brewing in adolescent male sexuality seems to me to be a classic example of moral entrepeneurialship on Garnia’s part, perhaps brought about by a mid-life career crisis.
To Thad,
It’s a radical claim to say that porn addiction does *not* exist, when ASAM states that sexual behavior addictions exist. You still cite no research to refute ASAM’s new definition of addiction. It’s also arrogant to claim that the people who self-identify as having a porn addiction are lying. What special knowledge allows you do that? What are your qualifications or magical powers that allow you see into millions of lives and brains to determine whether someone is addicted or not?
#1) These 2 articles (from our article) explain how Internet porn is different that porn of the past such as magazines and rentals: Porn Then and Now: Welcome to Brain Training http://yourbrainonporn.com/porn-then-and-now-welcome-to-brain-training Porn, Novelty and the Coolidge Effect http://yourbrainonporn.com/porn-novelty-and-the-coolidge-effect
You will find links to research within the articles. What makes Internet porn different is how the medium is used, and how that can keep dopamine levels spike for hours on end, like playing video games (Brain research has proven excessive video game use cause all the markers of addiction).
Novelty drives dopamine. If interest or erections (dopamine) start to wane, the user switches to a new scene, or different genre of porn. Most men report multiple windows and scanning through hundreds of scenes before they hit the right one for orgasm. This type of stimulation cannot be matched by a single DVD, or a once a month Playboy.
Dopamine is also kept elevated by seeking, searching, and bumping into anything that shocks or surprises all characteristics of Internet porn use. Comparing magazines to high-speed, multiple window, constantly changing genres/porn stars, all in one session – is like comparing playing checkers to World of Warcraft. The internet is a different animal, which is backed by studies (already cited) showing that 15-20% of young people have Internet addiction (Taiwan, China, Korea, Hungary).
The question we are asking is – What happens kids start Internet porn use at the same time, or before they start masturbating?
It’s true that no brain scans have been done on those indentified as solely porn addicts, but brain scans have been done on young people with Internet addiction. See our article with multiple peer-reviewed studies: Ominous News for Porn Users: Internet Addiction Atrophies Brains http://yourbrainonporn.com/ominous-news-for-porn-users-internet-addiction-atrophies-brains
As far as your concern about labeling, or determining addiction versus “normal use”, ASAM has addressed this. The activity neutral set of criteria proposed by ASAM eliminates the need to define what porn is, or how much porn use, constitutes an addiction. You will be happy to know that ASAM’s definition of addiction is not based on any rigid set of behaviors, such as 1.5 hours of porn viewing per day equals an addiction, but one hour doesn’t. The brain doesn’t work that way and neither does ASAM’s definition.
ASAM quote:
Although some believe that the difference between those who have addiction, and those who do not, is the quantity or frequency of alcohol/drug use, engagement in addictive behaviors (such as gambling or spending) (3), or exposure to other external rewards (such as food or sex), a characteristic aspect of addiction is the qualitative way in which the individual responds to such exposures, stressors and environmental cues. A particularly pathological aspect of the way that persons with addiction pursue substance use or external rewards is that preoccupation with, obsession with and/or pursuit of rewards (e.g., alcohol and other drug use) persist despite the accumulation of adverse consequences. These manifestations can occur compulsively or impulsively, as a reflection of impaired control.
That is one reason why ASAM emphasized that addiction-related behaviors, such as: inability to stop use, tolerance and escalation, withdrawal symptoms when use is curtailed, continued use despite negative consequences, all point to the same addiction related changes that occur in the brains of all addicts.
#2) The DSM is a political document, also used for insurance reimbursement, and may have little to do with reality. The DSM authors are the same folks who called homosexuality a mental disorder. Are they who you trust? Politics and opinions change with the wind, but hard science continues to march on. ASAM used years of accumulated evidence from hard science to arrive at their conclusions.
ASAM uses diagnostic criteria to diagnose addictions. We have already posted them. As stated, when these behaviors are present, they indicate corresponding brain changes. Take your concerns up with ASAM.
#3) Wrong again. There are thousands of young, healthy men who have trouble achieving normal erections, even when masturbating and using porn. In fact, a survey by the Italian Society of Andrology and Sexual Medicine (SIAMS) confirmed porn-induced erectile dysfunction in young men. Italian urologists commissioned this survey when men in their early twenties arrived at urology clinics with unexplained ED. Upon questioning, doctors identified one common variable: heavy porn use starting in their teens. When that one variable was removed these young men slowly regained erectile function and libido.
Italian men suffer ‘sexual anorexia’ after Internet porn use
http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/rubriche/english/2011/02/24/visualizza_new.html_1583160579.html
Scientists: Too Much Internet Porn May Cause Impotence
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/02/25/scientists-internet-porn-cause-impotence/
The key word is “variable”.
My website (www.yourbrainonporn) links back to hundreds of forums and websites, in about 25 different countries. Only 5-6 of these links have anything to do with porn recovery. The rest are places that men gather and post, such as: pick-up sites, sports sites, cars, current events, exercise, bodybuilding, you name it. In addition to the many visitors to our sites, I have read thousands of threads, some with hundreds of posts, discussing unexplained symptoms in young healthy men using today’s porn. These young men (ages 15 -35) have nothing in common other than years of heavy porn use and increasing sexual dysfunction. When that one and only one variable was removed, they eventually regained erectile health. All experienced withdrawal symptoms when they stopped porn, and nearly all experienced similar time frame in healing.
No other hypothesis is needed when changing a single variable (porn use) resulted in a change in condition (no more ED) for all subjects.
Please read the following posts to get a reality check that “the perfect storm” has already made landfall for these young men:
Thread (300 hundreds posts, and growing)
Ask a recovering porn addict anything. (SRS)
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=137504963
Too much porn/masturbation cause ED (almost 950 posts, and growing)
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Mens-Health/Too-much-porn-masturbation-cause-ED/show/183203
22 with porn induced erectile dysfunction? (almost 320 posts, and growing)
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Mens-Health/22-with-porn-induced-erectile-dysfunction/show/469209?page=1
It’s clear that you find it upsetting that sexual behavior can cause addiction-related brain changes. But no matter how insulting your rhetoric, you won’t be able to change this fact. The evidence is only growing stronger. If the proper research had been done while control groups were available, the truth would already be common knowledge by now. Really get it that the research you are insisting upon has not, and cannot now be done. As a culture we have two choices: either ignore all other evidence (your approach), or endeavor to steer by what is available (our approach). Readers are free to take their pick. That’s what blogs are all about.
To Thaddues:
The part you cannot grasp is that behaviors and symptoms correlate with specific physical changes. It’s called medicine, thad.
Since you refuse to follow the links, or read ASAM’s new definition, which throughly explains this concept, I’ll provide recent brain research on Internet addiction, including excerpts.
A short sentence describes what each study means. As stated, the 3 characteristics of addiction recognized by NIDA and ASAM are sensitization, desensitization, and an inhibited frontal cortex (hypofrontality).
——————————
Enhanced Reward Sensitivity and Decreased Loss Sensitivity in Internet Addicts: An fMRI Study During a Guessing Task.
As the world’s fastest growing “addiction”, Internet addiction should be studied to unravel the potential heterogeneity. The results suggested that Internet addicts have enhanced reward sensitivity and decreased loss sensitivity than normal comparisons.
Those with internet addiction have both sensitization and desensitization.
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Confirmation of the Three Factor Model of Problematic Internet Use on Off Line Adolescent and Adult Samples. (2011)
As the Internet became widely used, problems associated with its excessive use became increasingly apparent. Although for the assessment of these problems several models and related questionnaires have been elaborated, there has been little effort made to confirm them. Using latent profile analysis, we identified 11 percent of adults and 18 percent of adolescent users characterized by problematic use
Study found problematic Internet porn use in 18% of adolescents…in a sample that was more than half girls! What would it have been had the sample been all male?
——————————————————————-
Reduced striatal dopamine D2 receptors in people with Internet addiction.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21499141
An increasing amount of research has suggested that Internet addiction is associated with abnormalities in the dopaminergic brain system.Consistent with our prediction, individuals with Internet addiction showed reduced levels of dopamine D2 receptor availability in subdivisions of the striatum including the bilateral dorsal caudate and right putamen. This finding contributes to the understanding of neurobiological mechanism of Internet addiction.
This means desensitization caused by excessive Internet use.
—————————————————-
Changes in Cue-Induced, Prefrontal Cortex Activity with Video-Game Play
http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/cyber.2009.0327
Brain responses, particularly within the orbitofrontal and cingulate cortices, to Internet video-game cues in college students are similar to those observed in patients with substance dependence in response to the substance-related cues. These changes in frontal-lobe activity with extended video-game play may be similar to those observed during the early stages of addiction.
This means sensitization of addiction pathways.
—————————————————————–
Microstructure Abnormalities in Adolescents with Internet Addiction Disorder
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0020708
Recent studies suggest that internet addiction disorder (IAD) is associated with structural abnormalities in brain gray matter. However, few studies have investigated the effects of internet addiction on the microstructural integrity of major neuronal fiber pathways, and almost no studies have assessed the microstructural changes with the duration of internet addiction.
This mean hypofrontality or a decrease in frontal cortex volume and functioning.
———————————————–
Male Internet Addicts Show Impaired Executive Control Ability Evidence From A Color-Word: Stroop Task.
Both of the behavioral performance and ERP results indicate that people with IAD show impaired executive control ability than the normal group.
This means decreased functioning of frontal cortex.
———————————————-
Feel free to
1) Cite papers saying that behavioral addictions do NOT cause desensitization, sensitization, and hypofrontality, which are the hallmarks of drug addictions as well.
2) Explain how watching Internet porn (hundreds of scenes per session) for hour’s every day, from the age 12 to 24, would not have an effect at least equal to video game addiction.
3) Defend your position with more than an opinion
I’ll say this. I have spoken with men who stayed up all night (even one on the job) masturbating to internet porn. Since he sought treatment for this, he used the AA-type definition of addiction: it was a problem for him that he seemed powerless over. I know little about my student’s sexuality. I have the instinct that it’s more “surface” than ours (1960s) was. Viz: the tattoos, hard attitudes, etc. I’m persuaded by the idea of dopamine circuits mirroring addiction. But to treat addiction, you don’t have to even go there. Can addiction be a construct used by moral entrepreneurs to “profit?” Sure.
One’s sexuality seems so idiosyncratic. Most of my own fantasies were about the grown up women in my neighborhood when I was a teen. Strange, because I’ve only gone out with one woman older than I. I lost my virginity to a prostitute in Korea in 1964. I had trouble finishing because the sensation was subtler than masturbation, but I adapted quickly.
I’m pretty happy that porn wasn’t ubiquitous when I was an adolescent. I’ve enjoyed it occasionally as an adult. I actually like the “deviant” aspects– like group sex– which I can’t actualize in my own life.
I have a PhD in sociology, and an AS degree in psychiatric nursing. I hold a CA psych tech license. I don’t think that there are a whole lot of real experts in this area. I think M&G are correct on the addiction aspects (although I don’t agree with them on monogamy,) and I agree with Thad about the dangers of moral entrepreneurs. Sorry this is meally mouthed.
By the way, I’m quite enjoying a book called “Sex at Dawn,” which deals with our likely prehistoric sexuality.
Have a look at the review of LSAXON on Amazon.com. http://www.amazon.com/review/R18Q194BCH4T4N It politely and thoroughly dismantles just about every point the book attempted to make.
Those are indeed interesting reviews. As I read SAD, I was fairly aware that the sexuality portrayed is not the sexuality we have now, or perhaps should have. But I thought it was probably the repression implicit in more complicated social structure that conditioned us away from it. So, I thought it was more of a social Freudianism that changed us. It’s interesting that Saxon also disputes the basic premises of SAD.
Well, we have an excellent debate going on here folks.
First let me say hi there Gary and Marnia! We’ve chatted on your other website and it’s good to see you here!
I’ve read Gary and Marnia’s blog before and considered it a much better argument than the usual hand wringing about porn.
Thaddeus is clearly more sceptical than I, and I am persuaded enough by the arguments presented here that Marnia and Gary’s position has some holes in it. Note, for the record I did not read all the studies and citations presented, but then I was never going to. Also, I was never going to quit watching porn either, but Marnia and Gary’s points did give me pause.
So far as the science debate goes, I am inclined to agree with Thaddeus. It is inadequate to come to such significant conclusions.
That said, I do believe that there is a possibility that Marnia and Gary are correct in some or all of their claims. I do not believe that the evidence is there yet to “prove” them. Given the nature and realm of human behaviour that we’re dealing with here and due to the general inability of our society to handle these matters rationally or even maturely for that matter, I’m inclined to err on the side of caution and not buy Gary and Marnia’s claims hook line and sinker (though it’s probably something worth considering in one’s own life and seeing how things go).
For young lads with nary a sense of themselves and filled with the nonsense spread by the media, the pundits, the idealogues and pornographers (essentially everyone, not all of whom knows what the heck they are talking about), I think that the lads should do it the hard way and figure it out for themselves.
Even if they initally choose porn over women (and no reflective individual would reject that idea out of hand) I imagine that most of them will ultimately pursue women at a later date when the mating market is more in their favour and less stacked against them (like I did! Heh!).
For the record, I appreciate Gary and Marnia’s contribution to the porn discussion. It adds an angle that not based on ideas and possibly based on physiology and neural functioning rather than the usual arguments (non of which are persuasive to me). Their ideas, even if unproven, provide a lens through which real harms of porn can be seen other than what we usually see. What we usually see is that it causes women some discomfort without any strong direct link between porn and oppression of women (as it has ever been thus and Playboy has not always been) and the discomfort that porn causes women (to which I say life is hard, deal with it. No man is directly harming you by using porn to get his joliles nor is any teenage boy. If you don’t want men or teenage boys using porn, then you better start getting them sexually involved with age appropriate partners (whatever that is) at about between ages 14 -17 because after that (probably even before that) it’s a lost cause. Porn is simply part of the playing field now and I rather doubt it’s going to go away even with the most heavy handed approach of government.
Finally, I’d like to say that the censorship here is interesting. I’m also know as The Wet One. Haven’t been able to post all day on this most interesting topic. I wonder why? Have I been blacklisted?
Anyways…
Peace, out.
The Wet One
I wondered why you hadn’t chimed in on this!
Furthermore, Marnia and Gary, I’m not seeing ad hominem attacks by Thaddeus at yourselves. What I’m reading is skepticism about the claims you’re making and sketicism that it is “science.” Which isn’t to say that it isn’t a real possibility, just that it’s not “scientific” enough.
As well, just because one authority has found internet porn addiction to exist, is this a clinical matter (like my doctor’s view on cannabis use which results in “Cannabis related hyperlethargy”) or a clinical diagnosis with no thorough and sound understanding of the underlying physiological problems, or is it just a handy (from the clinician’s perspective) categorization of a problem that practioners keep on hearing about from their patients?
I don’t pretend to know, but I think that such diagnoses are made based on clinical evidence or at the very least certainly have been made in the past. Hysteria comes to mind as an example. Is it that there is a real physiological problem or is it a social problem for some that gets medicalized?
There is reason to be cautious and skeptical of such claims given Western society’s history of such things. Heck, a fine example is the female orgasm problem which pharmaceutical co’s are desperately hoping to “cure” with a pill. We don’t really need to wonder why the pharmaceutical co’s are so interested all of a sudden in women’s orgasm problems, but do we really honestly believe that it’s because they really think and care about this “woman problem?” Others don’t necessarily have such pecuniary motives, and yet still pursue the medicalization of a “problem” for other reasons.
So as to preserve one’s freedom of action and thought, such claims ought to be viewed skeptically (at least if you want to preserve your freedom of thought and action).
Thaddeus seems to have that skepticism. Based on the history of society’s blunders in this area in the past, I think that Thaddeus’ skepticism is well placed and prudent.
But, that’s just how I read things. What the heck do I know? Could be that Thaddeus is just an internet troll casting apsersions on your characters and decency, but I’m not seeing it. I see a spirited debate with plenty of back and forth. Also, as I’ve said above, I see more problems with your “porn addiciton” claims than I saw before due to a more critical examination of those claims than I’ve seen before. It’s been a most worthwhile reading.
The Wet One
This sounds all too familiar, unfortunately. I found porn at 10, and I have probably masturbated, on average, 4 to 5 times each and every day since. Always to porn and to some really freaky shit. I was awkward socially before and developed a very embarrassing physical condition that make me even more introverted. As a teenager, I basically spent my entire days sitting at home on the computer playing computer games and jerking off. For a long time, I tried to find a girlfriend, and was asking girls out, trying to flirt, etc, and things never went well for me. I kept feeling more ashamed and depressed about my lack of success that I finally gave up completely.
I still want a girlfriend desperately, and not just for the sex but for the cuddling, kissing, and love that comes with it. Unfortunately, at 24, I doubt any woman would want to be with a total social failure. It is hard to get out there and try when you have no positive experiences to draw on and you already lack self confidence. I often think that I should probably just spend a few grand and have a long “girlfriend experience” with a hooker and then take my own life.
Brains are plastic, which means you can change your habits. It’s not easy, but guys often see (some) improvements very quickly: http://www.reuniting.info/download/pdf/0.BENEFITS.pdf. Visit http://www.yourbrainonporn.com Good luck with your recovery.
Spend a few grand on several pros. Get on Plenty of Fish, make an awesome profile (they tell you how or at least they used to), go on dates with every woman that will go out with you. Learn everything you can from every experience.
And after you’ve done all that, then decide if it’s time to die.
I’m not saying don’t kill yourself, I’m saying don’t kill yourself without giving a honest to goodness good ole college try. Heck, you may even find it’s not worth the hassel and choose to check out. I wouldn’t blame you for it as I’ve oft considered it myself.
But defintely don’t spend a few grand on one woman. A few grand should be about 10 experiences in my opinion. Of course, the local market will decide.
The Wet One.
Thanks for your wonderfully informative article, Marnia-
Most significantly, your work has enabled so many of the men and women addicts I’ve worked with come to terms with/ heal from their sexual addictions because they finally come to understand the workings of their own brains. So many have put off getting help due to being crippled by shame and guilt, which enable negative feedback loops right back into the addiction. Your work helps defuse those stigmas tremendously and allows treatment plans to be implemented without the colossal self-recrimination attendant with the sexual addictions.
An author who’s helped further my understanding is Dr. Norman Doidge, a psychiatrist, psychoanalyst and researcher at Columbia University and University of Toronto whose book “The Brain That Changes Itself” is filled with empirically sound data. In particular, the chapter “Acquiring Tastes and Loves: What Neuroplasticity Teaches Us About Sexual Attraction and Love” explains how internet porn addiction (and fetishes) can develop and continue even when the porn user takes note of the consequences amassing in his life, and even when he is later repulsed by what he’s looked at.
Another important book is “In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts – Close Encounters with Addiction” by Gabor Mate, M.D. In this compassionate view of addiction, the author explores the scientific and psychological causes of addiction, from his work with addicts at Downtown Eastside Vancouver where he works as a physician.
He locates the source of addictions in the trauma of an emotionally empty childhood, making it a relational rather than a medical problem. As such, his treatment approaches value human connection over the traditional treatments as a cure. Those of us who work with porn/ sexual compulsivity know it to be fundamentally an intimacy disorder so the relational approach to treatment is most helpful here.
Thank you again for your efforts to help before porn addiction gains traction: in the younger teen years.
It seems to me that it is increasingly the case in American culture that liberty, freedom and empowerment are cast as things which can only be obtained through a priori recognition of oneself as a victim. In this sense, addiction has become a very powerful cultural myth for speaking of a more general malaise created by the conditions of life and labor in the late 21st century.
By casting the inability to successfully meet the almost unbearable pyschological pressures of late capitalist post-modern society as the product of a biological syndrome of addiction – itself defined, tautologically, as the inability to meet the productive demands of said society – psychological breakdowns are recast as discrete, individual events which have little if any relation to social life.
By encouraging this shift towards individualization, victimization and the discourse of addiction, mental healthcare professionals protect their own socio-economic niche in a world where human productive labor increasingly has littlereal value, but in which humans are still ulitmately defined as worthy according to their ability to produce.
We thus find that almost all of the definitions of addiction predicated here revolve around a priori notions of functionality, productive ability and individual dis-ease, which – through quasi-magical thinking interpretations of the poorly understood and bitterly contentious scientific field of neurochemistry – become naturalized into disease.
Can someone please tell me why I’m apparently being censured?
Thaddeus, you have repeatedly engaged in Ad hominem attacks**, which are against our commenting policy. A link to our commenting policy is on the front page of the site, and also here: http://goodmenproject.com/commenting-policy/
**[“Ad hominem abuse involves insulting or belittling one’s opponent in order to invalidate his argument, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensible character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent’s argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent’s personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent’s arguments or assertions.”]
So why not simply edit the parts of his post that you thought were Ad hominem??
Because you disagree with the ideology of the GMPM.
I think that it’s about social etiquette Bad Man- Same as when someone at a huge dinner party talks with a bullhorn at the table, not allowing anyone a shared voice in the discussion because it differs from theirs. Seems GMP is promoting discussion and different voices to be heard in equal time and volume and they only discipline abusers of common courtesy. I read the rules and they seem ok to me, but that’s my opinion…These rules apply to most public blogs and GMP is not declaring there is One truth and obey or you’re out. I really like this forum and read a lot that differs from my interests and perspective, and that’s ok. I don’t need to denounce the entire topic because I think differently, that would be arrogant and disrespectful for others opinions and experiences.
I heard that blogorrhea will be included in the next edition of the DSM. “A compulsive need to spend excessive amounts of time posting irate comments on blogs.” No, honey, I can’t come to bed, someone on the Internet is wrong!!! Becomes a disorder when it interferes with one’s work or social functioning.
It’s true that many things can become an addiction and can make actual human contact less interesting, enjoyable, and desirable. Porn can become one for men. The use of sex toys can become one for women. Of course, the latter would never, ever be written about here because it doesn’t criticize men’s behavior.
Actually, we have also written about the latter, and we totally agree with you. See “Vibrators and Other Pleasures: When ‘Moderation’ Fails” http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201106/vibrators-and-other-pleasures-when-moderation-fails
The power of superstimuli to dysregulate some people’s brains is not gender-specific. The reason more men are suffering is simply because more of them have been using Internet porn for longer. Women are catching up though. See “Porn Then And Now: Welcome to Brain Training” for more on why Internet porn is unusually stimulating. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201108/porn-then-and-now-welcome-brain-training
Yeah, but like Eric said, that will never be written about here because it doesn’t criticize men. It’s not that you don’t raise it, it’s that it won’t be talked about here.
The Wet One
Hey Eric M- I can see your point and I’m sure this is true for some women but I would not consider women’s abuse or preference for toys to be at all comparable to mens abuse or preference for porn, at least from my experience in relationships. My partners have only resorted to toys, reluctantly, when they were either not in a relationship or, reluctantly, when we were in a slump (sometimes due to my own porn use).
In my opinion, males seem to be more willing and able to dissociate from emotional connection (the holding and foreplay aspect of lovemaking) which allows men to be more susceptible to becoming glued to porn, since that is safely isolated from real connection. And, again in my own opinion, women seem to desire the foreplay aspects more than men. Maybe this is deep DNA, socially cultivated bonding drivers or simply my own experiences. And, in reading Marnia’s link to her article above re: vibrators, she writes that both she and her friend noticed that vibrators interfered with making love with their partners and they limited their use of them, to restore sensitivity and the bonding in the relationship. I have not heard of many men who have done the same when noticing that they were more aroused by porn than their partners! In fact, it often seems to go the other way.
“I have not heard of many men who have done the same when noticing that they were more aroused by porn than their partners! In fact, it often seems to go the other way.”
I have.
But, can you imagine a man who could not orgasm without viewing porn, even having sex with his own wife? What do you think of that scenario? He’s got a serious problem. Agreed?
That is the exact situation with many women. But, you don’t hear nearly as harsh criticism. Many women report that they can only orgasm with a vibrator, and use them both alone and even with their partners. If you think about it, it’s the very same thing, without the incredibly harsh and judgmental criticism.
Meant to say:
“But, can you imagine a man who could not orgasm without viewing porn, even WHILE having sex with his wife? What do you think of that scenario? He’s got a serious problem. Agreed?
Hey Eric- Yeah, agreed. I know a guy who couldn’t have sex with his girlfriend (my friend) without setting up his laptop next to their bed to watch while he tried to have sex with her. That was from even the beginning of their romance. That wasn’t a lasting relationship… This isn’t harsh criticism of the guy but of the severity of problem, just as it would be for a woman in a similar scenario, not a criticism of the woman but of the problem. These ‘problems’ exist for many people in relationships and commenting on the problem isn’t meant to shame any people with them, male or female. Shame is a bigger problem for many people. It seems that what can get damaged in relationships is the overuse or abuse of toys/porn cause it can numb people to their partners. This doesn’t make me want to ban anything or make anyone ‘bad’. It’s just a comment on the social milieu, the sexual zeitgeist.
What I believe is that often people prefer toys/porn over relationships or the old fashioned roll in the sack. But if there’s no relationship then it’s hard to see any potential problem, cause there’s no obvious conflict to make a problem evident. If that is even partially true, then maybe there’s a huge problem out there that lurks in the shadows? Like millions of people having a virus that hasn’t made them feel sick yet? Sounds like sci-fi.
All true. But, imagine if only the use of sex toys was mentioned in that vein but seldom if ever the use of porn. Women would very likely feel singled out for criticism, and argue that men are given a pass.
Hmmm…
Guess this debate has been shut down.
Oh well.
It was good while it lasted. The humanity on display was invigorating. Carry on!
Since these people are non-scientists, but rather bloggers relying on anecdotal evidence to support their opinions, just how much of the population is actually affected by this problem that it should be a concern?
Quite frankly, I think this is all overblown.
I hope you are right that porn use is overblown, but the research cited in our above article says that 9 out of 10 college guys use Internet porn. Generation XXX: Pornography Acceptance and Use among Emerging Adults (2008) Be aware that the data was collected 4 years ago. I doubt that porn use and availability has since declined.
This Canadian study with data from 5 years ago shows that one third of boys ages 13 – 14 were heavy porn users. I wonder what the percentages are now with increasing access to high speed connections and free porn.
One In Three Boys Heavy Porn Users, Study Shows
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070223142813.htm
QUOTE: “ Ninety per cent of males and 70 per cent of females reported accessing sexually explicit media content at least once. More than one-third of the boys reported viewing pornographic DVDs or videos “too many times to count”, compared to eight per cent of the girls surveyed. “
What I think would be interesting is if there was some way to get a real survey (maybe from GMP readers) about how porn viewing affects themselves and their relationship. Seems only a handful of people comment (some louder than others) so it’s hard to judge without more input. I can only speak for myself and from my experiences and I know that this is a big problem, for me and 100′s of others that I know personally. If you frequently use porn and do not have a problem, assuming that you are in a relationship, and know 100′s of others, like you. then we cancel each other out. I know that I did not believe that I had a problem when I was single, and even when I was in a committed relationship, until I tried to stop. That eventually forced me to realize that I couldn’t stop. That is the subject of the brain science, and this is verifiable science by the way.
Hasn’t really affected me. I’ve got other problems, but not the ones that Gary and Marnia are talking about. So far, it hasn’t really bothered the sweet love. She doesn’t seem to mind and finds my quirks endearing. She would rather some things are otherwise, but due to my openess about my issues and my past, she’s cool with it and we have a rollicking good time between the sheets.
Yay me!
And yes, she knows of my past and ongoing porn use.
Odd, but I’ve spoken with a few men who said that having their female partners watch porn during their real sex as a couple really opened the female partner up. I’ve never tried this (and won’t.) If true, perhaps the porn acts as a permission giver. One thing SAD said that I do agree with is that women seem more conscious of context than men.
All I can say is that the idea of a generation of men potentially not learning how to have sex properly, or severely setting back that learning process, is bloody terrifying to me.
Did they ever know? Where did they ever learn? It’s just a new kink in the wonderous thread of life. Not much to see here in my view.
If anyone wants to doubt that porn is addictive all you have to do is one thing: Follow the money.
It isn’t a multi-billion dollar a year industry because it’s good for you.
You say that and I think about the cosmetics industry. Hmmm….. One wonders doesn’t one?