10 Things Straight People Say to Their Gay Friends That Make Me Want to Vomit

Chloë gently corrects her hetero friends on their top 10 hetero biffles, such as saying, “I love my gays!”

Boo, let me give it to you straight: There are definite no-nos for speaking to members of other sexualities.

This week, I reached out to my fellow homos and posed the question: How do your straight friends irritate you? What insensitive terms, insipid platitudes or arrogant assumptions really get your blood boiling with people you otherwise adore? Could we put a stop to stupidity by gently correcting our hetero biffles?

Let me enlighten you as to the things you do that are so ridiculous, we either cringe, vomit or subtly mock you.

1. “Men are so awful/confusing/difficult, I wish I was a lesbian. It would be so much easier.
”

Leading the pack at number one is a statement both ubiquitous and absurd.

In what universe are women simpler than men? I’m not trying to go all ya-ya sisterhood; I’m just asking. Do you honestly believe men are more complex than women? Than you? Would you date you?

No, of course you wouldn’t, because you’re a total psycho. Even if you’re not actually psychotic, I have yet to meet a girl who isn’t secretly convinced she is insane. Womanly intricacies aside, dating as a straight person is easier than dating as a gay person in any context. There are so many of you. Straight people breed like rabbits.

2. Using the possessive (“I love my gays”).

A member of the majority using the possessive about any member of a minority is always, ALWAYS a social faux pas. No matter how many sexy duct-tape-covering-mouth pictures you pose for, we are not owned or even indebted to you. It’s fabulous that you support gay rights, but not actively oppressing someone does not make you their owner; it makes you not a horrible person. Do you refer to African-American friends as “my blacks”? Yes? Please stop immediately.

3. “I’m just going out with my girlfriend.”

This isn’t offensive so much as confusing. Whenever a straight female begins gabbing about her “girlfriends,” I am reminded of the great chasm between the world they live in and the one I occupy.

When you refer to your friends as girlfriends, you confuse men and women alike on the nature of your relationship. Furthermore, it’s dated and downright unrefined to denote cisgender before every statement. Does it really matter if your friends are women or men? Don’t you think we’ll know that “Mary” might be female? Do yourself a favor and tailor your speech for the audience.

4. “Sexuality is a spectrum.”

Congratulations, you paid enough attention in psych 101 to regurgitate Kinsey. Welcome to the upper-middle class.

There’s nothing more grating than straight people lecturing gay people on the many special shades of our own rainbow. I am familiar with bisexuals, pansexuals, asexuals, and whatever other sexual you are just dyingggg to tell me about.

It’s a phenomenal step forward for human sophistication that all aspects of sexuality are receiving the recognition they deserve, but spare me the talking points. I’ve heard them, and I’m still gay: gay gay, as in solely attracted to women. You can sit anywhere on the spectrum you desire, but don’t put your shit on me. I’m very happy on my side of the fence, and fought incredibly hard to get here. Don’t you dare try to tell me what it means to be gay.

5. “You’re so pretty for a lesbian.”


Actually I’m pretty for any girl, ever. Thanks though!

Enough with the ugly lesbian stereotypes. Just enough. There are far more ugly straight people than ugly lesbians — probably because there are far more straight people than gay people.

“Ugly girls are gay, pretty girls are bi” is an irritating stereotype that rears its head regularly in my day-to-day life.

First of all, it ascribes straight standards of beauty to gay standards of beauty. They are not the same. I’m attracted to androgynous, athletic, cosmopolitan dykes who look like they could doddle me on their knee while detailing their last trip to Home Depot. These girls are in no way unattractive, and are, in fact, very desirable in the gay community while being totally undesirable in the straight community.

At the other side of that, there’s nothing I’m less attracted to than an overly coiffed blonde coated in frosted lipstick and adorned in only a pink bikini; yet, any trip to Hooters tells me this look has always and will always be in for those in the straight community.


6. “Oh, you’re a lesbian? Well, one time I got wasted and let my lesbian neighbor go down on me.”


Yo, I don’t want to hear about your boring straight sex or cliche girl-on-girl experience.

Sometimes I feel like straight people mishear, “I’m gay,” as, “I’m kinky, promiscuous, and down hear every drippin’ detail of your odious fuckery.” Perhaps you should all see some type of hearing specialist.

In all seriousness, I appreciate you’re trying to find common ground and truly, sincerely appreciate that consideration. You clearly have good intentions. However, just because I’m gay doesn’t mean all commonly acceptable standards of conversation and etiquette are out the window; I’m a lesbian, not Dr. Drew.

7. Drop “fag,” “dyke,” and “That’s so gay” like you’re one of us. 


Imagine this scenario: You see me, in all my diminutive glory, strolling up to a table of women. The women — all zaftig — turn to say hello, and I respond, “WASSUP FATTIES?” Not cool. Never cool. Same applies to fag, dyke, and “That’s so gay.”

I can say these. You cannot. If you’re thinking to yourself, “But that’s not fair,” I would like to remind you that life is not fair and if not being able to use a homophobic slur is the least fair element of your life, you’re leading an extraordinarily gentle life.

8. Straight Guys Joking About “Going Gay” For One Another.

Bromance has to be the least interesting pop culture phenomena since the pet rock. I don’t really hang out with straight men because we have nothing in common. I generally dislike their appearance/demeanor/personality — and when we get drunk, they inevitably feel obligated to remind me how if I wasn’t gay they “would just fuck the shit out of me.”

In the odd case that I am surrounded by guys, I’m horrified to witness the unending, double-entendre-ridden monologue that is straight dudes joking about being gay.

9. Creep On Lesbians.

What a wonderful thing it is to be gay. Gay men are physically harassed for public affection. Lesbians are sexually harassed and then physically harassed for public affection. Last week, not once, not twice, but three times did straight men verbally and physically harass me for kissing a girl. At a gay bar. They were there with their girlfriends, who really just needed to dance.

Please, if you see a lesbian couple with the audacity to behave like a human couple in public (hugs, hand holding, arm over shoulder) just leave them alone. We are trying to live our lives in peace. We don’t need your commentary, however “flattering” you think it to be.

10. My gay friend ________.

You mean your friend?

I’ve had this discussion with my mother approximately 17 times and she still refers to Carlos as her “gay friend Carlos.” She can’t be stopped as she is a very aggressive middle-aged Greek woman, but maybe you can. Take a moment to think about how fucked up it is that you define me as gay before anything else. How disturbing it is that “gay” is placed before my name?

I don’t care if you tell people I’m gay, but my name is Chloë, not “Gay Chloë.”

by Chloë

 

Originally appeared at xoJane

More from our partners at xoJane.com:

My Relationship Isn’t a Secret, It’s Private

I Was Attacked by Virginia’s Serial Groper

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Comments

  1. I am in total agreement with every point EXCEPT #7. Am I to assume that since I am overweight it is ok to walk up to a table of rotund women and say “whatup fatties?”. It’s offensive, whether I share that trait with them or not and if I were to do so, I am telling everyone around me that this is the language fine acceptable. Next we’ll be telling mentally challenged people that it’s ok to yell to the “retards” across the mall parking lot since they are, too. It’s not ok.

  2. Fuck yes. A woman kissing another woman regardless of age, race or body type is just as beautiful as any man or any split gender couple doing the same anywhere, any time. Cheers to that couple. I support love, period from the USA.

  3. Uzi Peretz says:

    There are some very valid points however the tone of the article undermines them. Instead of helping people understand it serves to push those willing to read it further away from change. As you can see from the comments, most people are challenging your accusations and anger.

    I hope you (and the people who contributed) have an open dialogue with the people in your lives that annoy you so much; instead of throwing it up (get it :)) on the internet for all to see. I’d be disappointed if I found out from facebook that my friend is secretly pissed off about something I said.

    You’re not going to change those that don’t want to change but there are people out there who can benefit from your wisdom and experiences. However, no one likes to be talked at or down to as you seem to be doing here.

    Please consider the type of reaction you’d have if an article was posted with the same tone except it was called The Top 10 things Gay People Say to Their Straight Friends That Make Them Vomit.

    Respectfully

    UP

  4. paul evans says:

    Most of my friends, who happen to be gay, are not nearly this sensitive. But then again, neither are my fat friends, old friends, black friends, less-than-gorgeous friends and Muslim friends. The very generalization you demonize in your blog, you are guilty of yourself. In your opening statement you admit that gay people subtly mock insensitive straight people. You mean like looking both ways and behind you before telling an ethnic joke? Sorry, I’m old. I’m insensitive about most things and to everybody. It does not mean I hate, in fact I like most people regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation. Lighten up … have a glass of wine. Don’t be so angry. Merry Christmas.

    • klbirkenstock says:

      Aww! You’re cute. You know what’s really HOSTILE though? The Stonewall killings, or the Death of Matthew Shepard or any number of indignities which gay people experience every day. You get to walk around not being threatened with rape because people think they can ‘turn you’ gay, except I got raped because a dude thought he could turn me straight (I just hadn’t had a good hard f*** yet, right?). You want to see hostility – try that on for size, this is just some playful venting about silly things straight people say – but lets be clear you’re butthurt because it was a bit mean? I don’t hate straight people or men for that matter, I have a male partner even, but I do hate when teh straights tell me I’m too angry about the general attitude I and my girlfriend get when we’re out together because people feel like our relationship is some kind of public spectacle which they were invited to participate in. I don’t walk up to your girlfriend and invite myself to have sex with her, why can random dudes do that to me? Why is that something I shouldn’t be annoyed about, but straight dudes get to punch the guy for?

  5. What is the purpose of this article? Is it to just blow off some steam? or did the author actually want to stop these behaviors that piss of the gay community members? As a “straight community” member I can understand many of the reasons why these behaviors make you angry, but the tone of the article is too hostile. The tittle of the article is “10 Things Straight People Say to Their Gay Friends That Make Me Want to Vomit” its their FRIENDS right? not their enemies. This article takes the stance of us vs. them.
    As human beings I think gay or straight, male or female, some respect should be shown to each other. This article lacks that, there is not only no respect for straight friends of gay community members, it goes to degrade straight men outright. The message might be right, but by insulting people you are not going to get anywhere.

  6. LuAnn Fox says:

    Yes. Yes, and thank you. Sharp, beautiful, accurate. And the writing’s not bad either. Thanks a thousand times for making manifest what is so pervasively, culturally, there. And offering solutions. Your brand of gentle, sensible, balanced criticism rocks. Send it over here.

  7. Rudely written article; would not read again.

    FYI women calling their female friends “girlfriends” predates your birth by years and years. Get over it.

  8. “When you refer to your friends as girlfriends, you confuse men and women alike on the nature of your relationship.”

    Why is the use of the word “girlfriend” confusing? I have never heard any of the gay women I know refer to their significant others as “girlfriends”. It’s almost always “my partner”.

    “Furthermore, it’s dated and downright unrefined to denote cisgender before every statement. Does it really matter if your friends are women or men?”

    Agreed.

    • JJ Vincent says:

      Kevin, I hear girlfriend all the time from lesbians…it usually doesn’t transfer to partner until there is a level of permanence or commitment of some sort beyond dating. It’s actually still a little jarring…I have to turn my brain to “Oh yeah, that’s how straight women refer to their friends”.

      What I don’t hear is guys saying that they are going to a game with their boyfriends or that they are going to New York to visit their best boyfriend, unless they are indeed gay.

  9. “Does it really matter if your friends are women or men? Don’t you think we’ll know that “Mary” might be female? Do yourself a favor and tailor your speech for the audience.”

    This is just superfluous….

  10. Oh, the straight tears flooding the comments! Hahaha!

    So minorities can’t talk about what THEY feel offends or annoys them/their sexuality? I’m pansexual and I must say I agree with every single topic. I found them to be true and super funny. It does bother me, most of the times, and it does happen quite often. Not in a “i hate you” kind of way, after all, minorities are used to tolerate all sorts of things people do and say unconsciously, but please… do tell us to be “nicer” and to respect everybody’s feelings while we’re just giving you humorous tips on how to treat us like every other human being on the planet. Much appreciated!

    Wow. Anyway, congrats Chloë! Loved it. I’ll share it with my friends and laugh a bit more, it made me smile that I’m not alone in rolling my eyes every now and then 🙂

    • Joanna Schroeder says:

      I loved it too, and so did our entire editorial staff!

      The people in the comments have a LOOOONNNGG road ahead of them, but they’re the ones who’ll be left in the dust 😉

      • Hardly. I think most of the actual 10 things were germane, and generally I like articles of this type (i.e. “how not to be a jerk to your (insert minority here) friend”). This one just wasn’t good. It crossed the sometimes line between funny/poking fun and just being plain bitter and hateful.

  11. I find it amusing how people have reacted to your harsh and direct style, yet they were more than willing to click on an article called “10 Things Straight People Say to Their Gay Friends That Make Me Want to VOMIT.”

    I think the title should have given them a pretty good idea of the tone.

    • I agree. At first I was ready to criticize for whining, but then it occurred to me that most likely she’s just being “overly” honest for comic effect. In other words, some of these things occur to her, and some bother her a little, but mostly she probably understands that the “offenders” are well-meaning but awkward.

  12. Kile Ozier says:

    I’d like to throw onto the pile, “…so, are you a top or a bottom…?” People don’t ask who’s the “husband” and who’s the “wife” anymore; the question has evolved…

    Happy to share that information as it’s germane; it’s helpful to know that prior to hitting the sheets or proposing marriage. But, somehow, when you ask me that, I want to respond with, “…tell me, does your husband fuck you up the ass? Do you LOVE it?” or “Do you suck your husband’s cock? How’s your gag reflex?”

  13. William Hancox says:

    Whilst I appreciate the concept, the execution of this article is rather arrogant and dismissive. Some points are fair, and reasonable. But others fall into the common trap of being as rude and dismissive as those who you are rallying against.

    Regarding number 4. Sexuality is a spectrum, and “straight” people, “bisexuals” and “asexuals” are allowed to discuss and have opinions on the entire range of concepts of sexuality as much as “gay” people. What is not needed is some pseudo-intellectual hockum being sprayed around with vitriol making the conversation civilisation desperately needs a taboo because you are “gay, as in solely attracted to women”. Not everyone is like that, not everyone is as well defined as you, so don’t think you know what it’s like sitting on another part of the fence.

    • Matthew Merkovich says:

      This blog post seems to be more of a rant-to-the-choir speech than a win-hearts-and-minds speech. I was left with the feeling that I would not enjoy the company of the author at a party. And by that I mean, the author sounds like a condescending asshole.

  14. ‘I’m attracted to androgynous, athletic, cosmopolitan dykes who look like they could doddle me on their knee while detailing their last trip to Home Depot. These girls are in no way unattractive, and are, in fact, very desirable in the gay community while being totally undesirable in the straight community.’

    If you don’t want people to tell you what it means to be gay, please don’t ascribe a sweeping generalization to the standards of beauty for straight people either. These are your standards of beauty. Mine are more or less identical, and while I don’t consider myself a member of any particular ‘community’ when it comes to sexual orientation I am a completely straight man, and know many other straight men who value that same qualities in woman. Please don’t tell me what I desire.

  15. Wow. You sound extremely bitter toward the straight community. Maybe you should practice some tolerance like you want others to.

  16. I strongly disagree with #7. “Like you’re one of us”? Seriously, you’re going to turn this into an us vs. them thing? Way to go to increase the divide there, author. I agree a word is never the same when spoken by the privileged majority but attitudes like this REALLY aren’t helping anyone. You seem really bitter towards straight people which isn’t helping anything either.

  17. ” I don’t really hang out with straight men because we have nothing in common. I generally dislike their appearance/demeanor/personality.and when we get drunk, they inevitably feel obligated to remind me how if I wasn’t gay they “would just fuck the shit out of me.”

    That’s why I hate lesbians. Well because they are the population most likely to generalize us straight men as a bad and disgusting person.

  18. “8. Straight Guys Joking About “Going Gay” For One Another.

    Bromance has to be the least interesting pop culture phenomena since the pet rock. I don’t really hang out with straight men because we have nothing in common. I generally dislike their appearance/demeanor/personality — and when we get drunk, they inevitably feel obligated to remind me how if I wasn’t gay they “would just fuck the shit out of me.”

    In the odd case that I am surrounded by guys, I’m horrified to witness the unending, double-entendre-ridden monologue that is straight dudes joking about being gay.”

    Thank you for generalizing my entire gender and orientation.

    Allow me to flip the statement on you “I don’t generally hang out with gay women, we have nothing in common. In the odd case that I am surrounded by gay women I am horrified by .”

    In what world is that an okay thing to say? Especially when talking about how to not be offensive when navigating gender/orientation interrelations?

    • Yeah, that is never an okay thing to say. Also, I’m a woman and not psychotic, nor do I believe I’m secretly insane. At least the author is an equal opportunity hater! LOL!

  19. Mike de Fleuriot says:

    According to the list, I pass with no strikes against me. yeah I am that good, and it comes from thinking about what I want to say, twice.

  20. The list smacks hard of hyper-sensitivity; key-word “hyper.” I mean you really gotta be feeling around for the thorns in these things. Since you and we are all on the earth together, maybe it would be worth your effort to just accept human characteristics?

    I have to suffer through the kiddy-rape, boy-rape, priest/boy, man-boy, teacher-boy jokes and seemingly insensitive pontifications of “he musta liked it if he kept going back to the school and waited 20 years to disclose.” I hate it, but its not worth the ink to write about it. Its especially not worth my blood-pressure going up being hyper-sensitive.

  21. 2. Is it also wrong to say “I love MY friends” or “I love MY family” ? Saying such things doesn’t actually mean that someone believes you’re their possessions. It’s a type of endearment. Just take the compliment, and quit perpetuating the stereotype that gay people are over dramatic.

    3. Girls have been using the term girlfriend in this context long before gay women were a consideration in using it. If a woman says she’s going out with her girlfriends, you can probably safely assume that she’s speaking about her group of female friends. As you said, it’s incorrect to assume that gay people are all kinky promiscuous nymphomaniacs. Why would you assume that anyone using the term is one? If there’s any doubt, why not simply ask her what context she meant it in?

    4. Sexuality IS a spectrum. Obviously you don’t need to be constantly reminded of it, but that doesn’t make it any less true. If somebody you know is perhaps a bit inexperienced with being around gay people, perhaps you could simply explain to them that their affirmation of your lifestyle isn’t required.

    7. If you don’t appreciate anyone else using the term, don’t use it yourself. Simple enough.

    8. Straight men, like anyone, are entitled to joke around with each other about anything they’d like. Get used to it.

    10. While introducing someone as your gay friend may not always be appropriate, it may convey relevance in the correct situation. If you’re not ashamed about being gay (as well you shouldn’t), what’s the harm in being called gay? How is it any different than introducing someone as my pilot friend? Or as my chef friend?

    While you make a few good points, I can’t help but feel like your article implies a certain sense of self importance and arrogance. You’re just a person, gay straight or indifferent. You deserve all the same respect any other person does. You do not however, get to impose rules on others, just as they should not impose rules on you.

    In short, keep calm and carry on. Worry about yourself, not about others, and encourage them to do the same.

  22. You ought to change your name to Gaye-Chloe, so that the first time they try to say “My gay friend Gaye-Chloe…” their brains will freeze in confusion.

  23. The strangest thing about the article for me is that what she finds attractive- “I’m attracted to androgynous, athletic, cosmopolitan dykes who look like they could doddle me on their knee while detailing their last trip to Home Depot. “- sounds like the qualities of a straight urban male. So she is sexually attracted to women that look and behave like straight males but hates straight males? I don’t understand. This love and hate of the same qualities is perplexing.

    • Nothing confusing about it, she likes women. That they’re of a particular type doesn’t mean that desire for that sub-type over-rides the desire to fuck women. It’s not complicated, just an everyday example of nested rules.

  24. Number 8 is just absurd… So, in your view, Chloe, ALL straight guys are alcoholic frat “bros” or some sh*t?? LOL. I’m anything BUT that stereotype! Are you kidding?? I know PLENTY of fellow straights who aren’t like that, either. Where do you get off NOT associating with straight men just b/c of some dumb cra like that? Imagine if I, as a straight dude in 2013, had said that about GAY MEN- “I don’t like associating with gay guys cuz they’re all just a bunch of sissies and nancy boys.” You’d rightfully GET PISSED! But, of course, this IS the ‘land of the free’, and I’m not gonna DICTATE to you who you can and can’t be with; it just seems VERY suspicious and bigoted of you. What do you think ALL straight men are like? Boxing us in makes no more sense than doing it to YOU, as a lesbian.

    And GOD FORBID some guys WANT TO BREAK BOUNDARIES AND BE OPEN-MINDED ENOUGH TO CONSIDER THE POSSIBILITY that their friendship MAY BECOME MORE at some distant point in the future. I mean, who knows… Sure, one could argue that such joshing around ‘makes light’ of homosexuality as an INNATE TRAIT that can’t be easily changed (if at all)- possibly giving credence to the anti-gay crowd- but, really, I don’t think it’s THAT big a deal, in the end. Hell, I’ve discovered MANY interesting new things about myself sexually over the last few months! While I would consider myself generally straight, I might well be slightly gay (at least 10-20%) or bi, and I’m not TOTALLY against a possible gay experience. The right moment just hasn’t presented itself, and I already have a gf (would hate to hurt her).

    So don’t belittle my or any straight guy’s increasing open-mindedness on the issue of LBGT rights or awareness by saying, “You shouldn’t say that! It annoys me.” If a gay guy joked about possibly “going straight” for some girl who was SUPER ATTRACTIVE (inside and out), I’d say, “Ok…” and move on w/ my life. Come on, Chloe. Sounds like you have a weird double standard hidden deep within your psyche that needs resolution. ;P And as much as it may annoy you to admit, sexuality IS, more or less, a spectrum. Sure, some people consider themselves TOTALLY GAY or TOTALLY STRAIGHT, and they’re just not all that attracted to people OUTSIDE their range. That’s fine! But some folks may ORIGINALLY think they were gay or straight but realize new sh*t about themselves as time goes on. That’s fine, TOO! Big deal

    • Yeah, apparently straight men are all detestable, and women are all crazy. “Would you date you? No, of course you wouldn’t, because you’re a total psycho. Even if you’re not actually psychotic, I have yet to meet a girl who isn’t secretly convinced she is insane.”

      Seriously? Honey, I’d say that your hatred is mostly directed toward yourself. I hope you can get past that, but meanwhile please don’t project it on everybody else.

  25. I think Chloe has some legitimate gripes. Most of these things would irritate me too. But I have to agree that the generalization of straight men…”I don’t really hang out with straight men because we have nothing in common. I generally dislike their appearance/demeanor/personality”…is uncalled for. But I have no doubt that Chloe can recognize that this was an unfair generalization based only on certain, apparently drunk and sleazy, straight men that she had recently encountered. When you admittedly don’t hang with straight men it is easy to think that the few you have hung out with are representative of the larger group. But science teaches us that we should never draw conclusions from a small sampling. Again, I’m sure Chloe recognizes this fact.

  26. Jeremy M says:

    ” I don’t really hang out with straight men because we have nothing in common. I generally dislike their appearance/demeanor/personality —”

    Why in the world is something this vile, ignorant, and hateful against my straight brothers being posted on The Good Men Project!? As a gay man id never dream of saying i generally dislike straight women, because I dislike their appearence/demeanor/personality. Dont get me wrong there are plenty of straight women who i cant stand for all of those reasons, but id never dream of lumping in all the wonderful straight women in with them. This whole article should be removed from this site. I cant believe this sort of crap is tolerated. Absolutely disgusting.

  27. I generally dislike their appearance/demeanor/personality — and when we get drunk, they inevitably feel obligated to remind me how if I wasn’t gay they “would just fuck the shit out of me.”

    Interesting how a lesbian is empowered by saying this but a gay man saying the same thing about women is sexist and misogynistic. Otherwise I liked the article

  28. OK… Most of these are fine but this part is ignorant:

    “Bromance has to be the least interesting pop culture phenomena since the pet rock. I don’t really hang out with straight men because we have nothing in common. I generally dislike their appearance/demeanor/personality”

    “Bromance” is sacred. The platonic love and affection between men, especially between a man or boy and his father, is very necessary to health and happiness for men and society. For you to try to take it away is just awful! Also, for you to lump all “straight men” into a category and say you generally dislike them is just pure ignorance and prejudice.

    Wake up! Men need love from other men and when we joke about being gay it’s because society doesn’t let men love each other without accusing them of being gay and this is their way of standing up for their right to love one another despite society’s closed mindedness on the subject. If you didn’t recognize it, they are being sarcastic. They are reacting to the unfairness of a society that wants to prevent them from obtaining the love that they need to be healthy and happy.

    • Thanks for saying that. A warm lingering hub/cuddle from a guy is SOOOOOOOO very nice to me. I almost never meet guys who are comfortable hugging/holding other guys in a substantial manner. We DO need M2M affection, and lots of it! We really need to be able to touch each other with deep affection and intimacy w/o it being automatically associated with sex. More affection and intimacy equals less violence. It’s true! Dig around and read about that connection. Want less violence? : More Hugging!

    • Skull Bearer says:

      The problem with broamce is that the writers never let it be just two guys being close and supportive (like, say, straight female friends are allowed to be). There always has to be this sexual subtext, a sort of ‘will they, won’t they’ approach. This is unfair to everyone. It’s unfair to the homosexual community, for having being gay treated as a joke, and it’s unfair to the male community, for having everything they do explained in sexual terms.

  29. Thanks Cloe. Too true. I HATE being referred to as ‘the gay guy’ when I’m at work Pisses me smooth off! I’ve played both straight (not very well) and open, at work, trying to find something that would be comfortable for others around me. Neither one works. Now I attempt to avoid the topic of sex, politics and religion entirely. You know, like it used to be way back when people actually knew how to behave in a civilized manner. It’s none of their business anyway. People seem to think that what goes on TV is OK for work. People say the most amazing things and ask me about amazing things that I just cannot believe they say. I don’t know him from Adam but there is always that one guy who just HAS to ask me about what kind of sex I enjoy! WTF!!!

    • Adam Blanch says:

      Hey Clark, have you ever wondered why that is? It sounds to me like that guy is trying to offer a connection, to cross into your world in the only way he knows how – clumsy but not badly intended. Gay people also need to accept some responsibility for the way they are seen. The gay movement has gone to great pains to put gay sexuality front and centre, to shove it in the face of straight people in the most exaggerated and over the top fashion, into a world where straight people are still getting out from under centruies of religious oppression of their sexuality (or did you think you had an exclusive claim to sexual oppression?). If your sexuality is what you advertise about your identity, why are you surprised when people see you that way?

      By reducing your own public identity to sexuality you have marginalised the rest of your humanity in the eyes of your audience. Complaining about it is like Marylin Monroe complaining that people see her as a sex object, after she has worked so hard to get them to.

      Instead of playing it ‘straight’ or playing it ‘gay’, how about just playing it human and let other peoples discomfort be their problem. Or you could try having some compassion for their discomfort, being curious about it, relate to them as a fellow human being instead of projecting onto them that they are your ‘straight’ oppressor and dumping your hate on them. Understanding is a two way street, which is a very different proposition from being the victim that demands everyone understand their suffering while refusing to return the courtesy.

      • Oops! I’m not being precise enough in my description; I’ve lost a job (maybe more) over my sexuality. I’m not at work to socialize, wch usually gets one tangled up in a web of social garbage that ruins the workplace. The last time a guy asked me if I liked pussy it ended VERY badly. He was a hater for sure and I’m not about to tattoo my sexuality onto my forehead in the hope that haters will stop hating. Law do nothing to protect me. I prefer the protection of privacy.

        My public identity at work has NOTHING to do with my sexuality, an act which would be illegal if done in a public place. If it’s unethical to do it in front of non-consenting adults than is it OK to blab about in the break room? Facebook has ruined so much. Do we all really need to tell all to our coworkers? I bear no responsibility for those who choose to marginalize anyone else and being vocal with acquaintances about my sexuality (besides being inappropriate) will not improve the situation. And it’s non of their business.

        I try my best to just be myself. I’m usually not perceived as gay right off the bat so I don’t feel the need to ‘butch up’ or anything like THAT. I just mean that one puts on a face when interacting with those whom are not close friends. All others can mind their own darned biz-niz.

        Also, many have told me how uncomfortable they feel when someone gets all ‘loud and proud’ about their sexuality, whether hetero/homo/mixed/whatever. They tell me that it is non of their business and that they don’t appreciate it being MADE their business. Besides, it’s just not polite! (and it’s non of their business)

        I do see your point about breaking down walls of ignorance that keep things from improving. I think it only works with people who you know and trust and who you think already like you. That’s what Nat’l Coming Out Day is about. You tell someone who already associates positively with you that you are gay and then they associate ‘gay’ (or whatever) with a positive feeling (the one they feel when around YOU). It backfires when you tell someone who does NOT already like you. See what I mean? And besides, it’s non of their business!

  30. I’m not sure where you’re meeting straight guys, xojane, but you might want to reexamine your choices — and your tendency to lump all straight guys together into one insensitive stereotype.

    I’m gay, for whatever that’s worth, and have a number of great (can I say this?) straight male friends.

  31. I think the author needs to specify her own specific experiences here, because to be lumped in with the straight male population she refers to makes ME feel stereotyped and attacked for my own sexuality. The fact is that maybe she has spent too much time around awful people who have not been better educated – but we’re still in the early days of acceptance here, and reeducation is what’s called for, not blanket spite.

    She makes some good points – particularly in pointing out that the ways that the dominant majority tends to lump together all members of any minority, or attempt to co-opt their struggles in a way that denies them. However, there are also plenty of points here where she seems to be lashing out against members of the majority who are trying to reach out and understand, in their own way, something that is so completely out of their own experience.

    Sexuality IS a spectrum, and many people today are growing up straight and aware that the heteronormative paradigm is oppressive. Maybe they can’t identify as full-on GAY and thus take up opposition to dominant straight culture, but trying to define the gray area, and asking your help in doing so, is not inappropriate. In fact, I think it’s the way out of the intolerance that we’re breeding on both sides for each other.

    • wellokaythen says:

      I think the author is hanging out over and over again in the same places, places that may not be the most representative of heterosexual men. Barfulls of frat boy stereotypes are hardly a good sampling of all 3 billion heterosexual men in the world. Yes, if you spend a lot of time in bars with drunk young men, you will hear a lot of annoying statements. I can tell you as a straight male a lot of things I hear from drunk straight men are pretty annoying.

  32. “I generally dislike their appearance/demeanor/personality” — So while the author rants tirelessly about inadvertent stereotypes and her general butthurt over her straight friends, she proclaims a blunt stereotype about straight males. While I have no doubt she’s had unsavory interactions with them, the few hundred she’s actually interacted with constitute less than .1% of the straight male population. Lesbian or not, she’s nothing more than a snarky, victim-playing, immature, self-possessed, hypocritical discontent.

  33. I suggest you take a little more time to think about your reasoning behind using the terms “fag” and “dyke”, and why it is you believe it is okay for “our” culture to use them but not for the “masses”. reappropriating terms only perpetuates that they are okay, refer to yourself and others in the community the way you would want everyone to refer to you, acceptance and understanding do not come from distancing ourselves but rather through integration.

    • Adam Blanch says:

      I like your thoughts Hamish. though i certainly understand why gay people find claiming the word empowering, I wonder if it doesn’t exacerbate the cultural divide. I’ve never really understood why gay men predominantly adopt he ‘camp’ persona, except maybe as a way of claiming a valid identity. But I’m not gay and have no lived experience to inform me on that.

      I look forward to a world where our sexual orientation does not determine our persona or our social group. It’s got nothing to do with anything except who we have intimate relationships with, so why does it have such a huge impact on our view of ourselves and each other.

  34. David May says:

    More than words, is the assumption that many straight women make in the work place — the unspoken: You’re a gay man, ergo we are intimate confidants. The assumption that we want to know all about our female co-workers’ lives is eroneous and irritating. We are gay MEN after all and in fact share more commonalities with our straight brothers than we do with any of our sisters.

  35. Dan Flowers says:

    I’ll add that while I am not racist, homophobic, or religiously intolerant in the least I am really sick to death of a society in which everyone who can find a label for themselves feels enpowered to play the victim, or look for the stupidest and most innocuous things to be offended by. How truly spoiled we are when people have lived in such privilege that “issues” this inconsequential even rise to level of something to whine about. Give me a freaking break… I feel like I probably speak for a lot of people when I say that the whining and truly petty, low threshold for offense is what most people find irritating, not someone’s lifestyle choices.

  36. Dan Flowers says:

    As one of the commenters said above, I have an automatic disdain for anyone hiding behind internet anonymity to go on a hateful (or hypocritical) rant about stereotypes or things they hate. It’s very clear the author has some hate and intolerance issues of her own to work through.

  37. This could have been an ok article except number 7 ruined the whole thing for me and shows you’re pretty immature still. Do you really think it’s ok to use ‘fag, dyke and that’s so gay’ just because you’re gay? Did you ever have the slur ‘fag’ yelled at you while being constantly punched in the face by a group of striaght guys? Do you know where and how that slur originated?

    Any gay person that uses those words or ‘that’s so gay’ as an insult instantly identifies themselves to me as someone with no dignity, little intelligence and no compassion. That you consider it ok for yourself to use them because you are gay does not make sense at all and only encourages others to keep using the words. Your entire article ruined because you think it’s ok to refer to gays as fags and dykes.

    • Skull Bearer says:

      It’s a question of what stereotypes this feeds into. A straight person yelling ‘fag’ is a homophobic stereotype. A gay person doing the same does not feed into any pre-established images. Same thing with black people and ‘nigger’.

      • Adam Blanch says:

        The stereotype this feeds into is the stereotype of white heterosexual males as a patriarchal, homophobic, misogynistic racists. it’s the most prevalent stereotype in the western world today. Like all stereotypes it is a gross generalisation perpetrated by special interest groups for the their own power and privilege. It demonises & dehumanises half the population. How is it that you are blind to this stereotype?

      • I’m not interested in labels or stereotypes. A straight person uses this as an insult to gay men. Why would ANY gay person turn around and re-use this word, especially to another homosexual? It’s an insult, and cannot be taken any other way. I would have exactly the same reaction to A PERSON using this word, regardless of sexuality. The meaning of the word does not change according to who uses it.

        As for your example, is it only black people that use the word nigger? Is it still thrown around as an insult by other people? Is it still considered racist for non-blacks to use it? Has it gone away or changed meaning because it’s ok only if black people use it?

    • David May says:

      PUH-leeeease! Queer on queer banter is one of the percs of being gay. Good natured teasing about our shared lives is always in good order and good taste. And sometimes it using words we would be offended by when used by straight folks:

      “I like what yo’uve done with your place. It’s os high fag!”
      “I love it! Could it be any queerer?”
      “You made that yourself? You are SO homosexual.”

      And so on. It’s the sort of thing folks should leave alone — unless they really have nothing better about which to worry.

    • I get it. Take back the power of a word and all. I’ve been out for all of 8 years and I don’t care if you’re gay, straight, or drunk. Call me a fag and I’ll hit you with my purse.

      It’s just not acceptable. Period.

      • I love your response. And I agree — I cringe when I hear the word. We all have to look at ourselves and seriously confront our internalized homophobia. If you’re calling me, yourself and anyone a fag, the best way to overcome internalized homophobia is to first realize it’s an issue worth dealing with.

  38. Atypical says:

    I HATE when people say “girlfriends.” Do boys say “boyfriends?” No. So…wtf. It literally makes my skin crawl. I would get offended if I was gay and people always wanted to tell me about their “gay experience,” which is usually just dumb college girls frenching to get some dumb college guys to buy them drinks….which i also hate (way to exploit a lifestyle there, a-holes.) It frustrating because of all of these “incidences” at least half of the men i talk to at some point ask me if I’ve ever “done anything” with a girl (because apparently it’s soooo common for straight women to have a gay experience in their lives. No guys, it’s not. Really.) I respond with “Have you ever done anything with a guy?” They get offended/pissed. I say, “Well since I’ve already made you aware that I’m straight, should I have reacted the same way that you just did?” Silence. Or his brain exploded from a logic overload…

    • Adam Blanch says:

      When did ‘hating’ become the cool thing to do? Or is it only cool if you are a minority? I might be naive, but I though that hate was the problem here. We talk about crimes against gay people as ‘hate crimes’, and condemn them. But when people express hatred for heterosexuals or males it seems that they consider it to be a good thing. How is it that people justify complaining about being hated, while themselves practicing hatred?

      And why don’t any of the haters use their actual names on these posts? It seems to me pretty easy can throw around from the safety of anonymity, but I wonder if they would be so careless of other people and so free with their hate and judgments if they had to be accountable for their actions?

      • Atypical says:

        Really dude? I don’t use my real name because I have a very uncommon last name and I don’t need my students googling me and finding a post of me getting trolled on the internet. Grow up and respond to my thoughts not the fact that I said “hate” and that I didn’t use my real name.
        I have nothing to be accountable for. As Americans, we are allowed to be disgusted with people’s actions. Is it not okay for me to “hate” when people litter, are rude for no reason, or abuse animals, etc? I am not a “hater,” or in high school…as that’s pretty much the only age group who actually uses that term…there are just certain aspects of our society that rub me the wrong way, and I’m sure you can name a few that do the same to you so don’t try to act innocent. This article could easily be titled “10 Things That Straight People Say to Their Gay Friends That I HATE.” Gasp! “Hate!” Maybe you should read the article- http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/the-good-life-whats-your-deal-breaker-in-a-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-466240 -and see how much “hating” on straight women is going on over there.

        • Adam Blanch says:

          Well shucks, I must be confused. You say you are not a hater but your post uses the word hate twice, once in capitals for emphasis, and then repeat it in your reply. You then go on to call other people a-holes and dumb followed by massive stereotyping and derision of straight men. Is there anyone who you don’t look down on?

          In your reply you demand that I argue with the content of your post rather than make it personal, then call me a troll (oh, sorry – you only imply that I’m a troll), As far as i can tell, the content of your post is merely to say how much you hate a bunch of other people, couched in inflamatory invective that expresses hatred, contempt and your own view of your personal superiority.

          You may not know it, but your post conforms to a typical feminist format (not atypical at all). You express outrage on behalf of a minority you do not belong to as a way of establishing your bona fides as a fellow victim, and from that position of moral superiority you launch a slanderous attack against men that stereotypes them and attempts to diminish their validity as human beings, which is exactly what you were just getting outraged about. If I were you, i wouldn’t be putting my real name to it either.

        • Adam Blanch says:

          Well here I thought that the word hate meant hate, how silly of me. maybe I was confused by the way you went on to call everybody ‘a-holes’ and ‘dumb’. I am arguing with your content, which is basically that there are a whole bunch of people you seem to hate, particularly men.

          And yes, I can name something that rubs me the wrong way. People who think they are morally superior to everyone else and who believe that this justifies abuse, derision and hatred. Also people who won’t put their name to their rantings, something about anonymous abuse that just gets my goat.

          • wellokaythen says:

            Actually, many people find the asshole to be a source of great pleasure. And most people find the asshole absolutely necessary for digestion. It’s a source of economic success — some people make money from waxing it or selling billions of dollars worth of products to make it cleaner. So, the word “asshole” is just one more word that needs some rehabilitation. Calling someone an “asshole” could actually be a compliment.

            “Dumb” is another word for silent, and silence is golden, so maybe “dumb” is also a compliment?

          • Floyd Josh says:

            Man, where did you see her/him hating on men that much as you make it seem?
            I saw her/him calling some college girls dumb, and said some men she/he meet are illogical or whatever. And then you are the one talking about some people’s supposed victimization
            Some people will use the word hate loosely. Some people just want to say things superficially. You are being too paranoid over these unimportant comments, trying to criticize every single thing, judging and labeling the person’s entire personality and getting so damn defensive… come on. I can only see you acting like you are coming from a position of moral superiority here, maybe also projecting a lot of previous paranoia over her/his rather simplistic comments.
            Relax.

  39. homoheterostraightgay says:

    this is great. i see some of the points have gone way over some heads (given the audience, this was expected), which makes it even better.
    the most entertaining thing, though, is reading the comments telling the author how she shouldn’t be so angry. let’s make that number 11 on the list. also, chloe has complete capability to choose the type of people she wants to be surrounded by. judging by these comments, she has a valid point.

  40. Gay and Annoyed With You says:

    Woah. You’re b*tching about the way straight people stereotype gays? And in the same article, you preach that “straight standards of beauty” and “gay standards of beauty” are two different things? WHAT THE ACTUAL HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Not every lesbian thinks androgynous boy dykes are attractive. I think they are seriously UNATTRACTIVE.

    YOU have offended me more in this article than any straight person trying to fit in with me ever has.

  41. dude it’s totally uncool to say you dislike an entire group of people, saying you dislike straight men is rude, i’m a lesbian and have loads (okay a few) straight guy friends that i love to hang out with and never give me trouble. come on man, be cool.

  42. Being a gay man and being a lesbian IS basically the same thing. Sure they are “opposite” sides of the gay spectrum, but both are still gay. I never understood the need for absolute distance in the terms.

  43. I would raise a point of contention. Nobody should be using the phrase ‘that’s so gay’.The terms fag and dyke should be considered for removal too. The latter were certainly originated as derogatory. The former is used as a backhanded way to substitute for the others. It almost always seems to have a negative connotation.

    • Will, I realize this and agree with you. I cited it as an example only. Its a common form of speech in the american vernacular. It wont be removed for a long time, and getting angry at people who do use it will only cause more harm to yourself than good. Of course its derogatory, its turning something that someone is proud of into slander. But people dont think about it because it doesnt pertain to them. Ive had people correct me because I used the word ‘straight’ instead of ‘forward’ when giving directions. You arent going to get people to change the way they speak, you are just going to piss them off, and make yourself seem pretentious and ‘holier than thou.’

  44. So a blogger who doesn’t want to be judged on her sexuality wrote an entire blog judging those of the opposite sexuality? This makes no sense. As a person, I do not judge anyone on their sexuality, their race, their color, or even their religion. I do judge people, its human nature. Everybody does it. But I will try to limit how much I do, by only judging actions and ignorance. People who do bad things are bad people, and people who dont bother to try, or they refuse, to understand others are ignorant people.

    This is a huge bone of contention for me, since it has been my experience that most gay people flat out refuse to understand a straight person. Its as if because you are gay and human, you already know what its like to be straight and human, so it gives you the right to dictate what we can and cannot say as well as generalize straight people. Bullshit. Its a two way street. You may make it a point to not say ‘thats so gay’ because being gay is a major part of your life. A straight person isnt going to think twice, because being gay has absolutely no bearing on his/her life whatsoever. You have to understand that what makes up a huge portion of your life, doesnt make up any part of ours. And yes, we have to try understand the same thing about you.

    I realize that you have put up with more hatred, contempt, and stupidity than I have due to that part of your life, and it saddens me. I hate that people cant get married to those they love over stupid legal technicalities, and it makes me want to vomit when I hear about an act of violence against a fellow human being in general, but even more so when it is over something as trivial as their sexuality. But even if the number of straight people that have done that to you is as high as 50 percent of the people you have met, that means there is still another 50 percent of people who dont give a flying f*&k who you make out with or take home with you at the end of the night.

    Finally, I would like to point out… I didnt chose to be straight, any more than you chose to be gay. Please save your judgements for the cruel and the ignorant, and I will do the same.

  45. Lots of good points here Chloe but a few items I feel are pretty lame:

    3. “I’m just going out with my girlfriend.”

    Really Girlfriend is what you came up with to be pissed about?

    If you want Girlfriend to mean lesbian then I want Faggot to mean a bundle of sticks and gay to mean happy again. I mean come on already! What you really seem to be pissed about is not knowing if the reference is to ones romantic partner. Let’s face it what you really want is to KNOW if the person they are referring to is the one they are screwing. Straight or Gay.

    7. Drop “fag,” “dyke,” and “That’s so gay” like you’re one of us.

    Drop your need to make language exclusive to your group identity or drop straight like your one of us? (See how dumb that sounds?)

    Just because you are a lesbian doesn’t mean you get to claim dominion over the word fag or gay anymore than I can claim it over the word straight when I am heterosexual, even when I don’t like the way it drips from some homosexuals mouths like acid spit from Aliens.

    Had you taken offence with the use of the word as a pejorative term and/or a hate filled slur then I would have had your back in a dark alley against an army of skin heads to my dying breathe, but not like this no ma’am, you don’t get to own those words because they aren’t yours anymore than they are mine.

    8. Straight Guys Joking About “Going Gay” For One Another.

    Your Hate is showing maybe you should hide it better or clean it up.

    Bromance is down right funny and to be fair to straight guys; it’s awesome that we can even have a pop culture appreciation for guys being able to love their friends without it being gay or a sign of weakness.

    Honestly the way you wrote this smacks of contempt for straight men, Do you think we are all sleaze balls looking for a place to have a sausage party?

    I venture that you probably have a lot more in common with straight guys than you are letting on, if nothing other than the fact that you are both sexually attracted to women. (pretty crucial fact right there.)

    I think you should hang out with more straight guys, Not bone heads or dirt bags but nice straight guys and have a real down home talk about what attracts you to women, in the same casually excited way decent guys talk about what attracts them to women. Perhaps then we can all learn something about each others spectrum without you putting your shit on me. (See what I did there?)

    Now to Close let me thank you for your courage and willingness to call it out and let your feelings be known.

    I will gladly take your advise so as to better myself and avoid hurting my friends even if it might come from my own ignorance about their feelings and not from bigotry.

    I hope that you can find the same…

    • wellokaythen says:

      7. Drop “fag,” “dyke,” and “That’s so gay” like you’re one of us.

      I can maybe buy the argument that it’s okay for a people who are members of a group to “own” a slur about them while it’s not okay for outsiders to use the same word about them.

      One problem with that, though, is that it assumes that people are clearly marked for everyone’s convenience. If a person uses the word “dyke,” then you can’t tell if they’ve done something wrong unless you know beforehand that the person is a lesbian. If so, we would need to know what the criteria are for determining whether a stranger is lesbian or not. That’s not always obvious. For example, I sense there’s some real disagreement about whether or not “dyke” can refer to a transwoman or just cis-women.

      Let’s say some anonymous person online uses the word “fag.” Are we supposed to hold off judgment until we ascertain who wrote the word? If so, where’s the burden of proof? And who’s in charge of policing language — who will be checking credentials, and where does one apply for a vocabulary license?

      And what about quoting? I happen to be a hetero male, but let’s say I quote Dan Savage, who uses the word “fag” quite liberally.

      If someone uses the word “fag” or “dyke,” is the person innocent until proven guilty, or guilty until proven innocent?

      If the person is bisexual, then is the word half acceptable and half unacceptable?

      Another major problem, of course, is that “one of us” can really only refer to gay men OR lesbians. By the same logic lesbians should not use the word fag, and gay men should not use the word dyke. Furthermore, butches cannot use the word femme, and femmes cannot use the word butch, and only hairy men can use the word “bear.”

  46. (-__-) *blank stare at #3* “I’m just going out with my girlfriend.”
    Chile…So…what’s the “proper terminology” because for as long as I can remember that IS the way women refer to their female friends…There’s nothing confusing about it. LOL

  47. Perhaps the phrase in the title should be changed from “gay friends” to “lesbian friends”. I found the entire article to be quite “lesbo-centric” for lack of a better term. Not saying there is anything wrong with having such a slant, but the title is a bit misleading.

  48. Tom Gualtieri says:

    As a bi-man, I agree with 50% of this article: #’s 1, 5, 6, 7, 10. The rest smack of a kind of anger which belies the entry’s jokey tone.

    Chloe is understandably miffed by some of the points she raises but there is something to be said for being responsible for one’s own reactions. If Chloe is upset by the use of the word “girlfriend” to mean “a girl who is my friend,” I’d suggest asking for clarification if it’s needed.

    I was in the elevator with an elderly woman when a 3rd person got in and took the elevator down one floor. I expressed my aggravation and the elderly woman said to me: “Killing you softly.” In other words – the guy taking the elevator didn’t care. He was going to do what he was going to do no matter what. But my aggravation with a pointless situation was only harming me.

    • Tom, I still refer to my friends as “girlfriends” it is not an intentional affront to gay women. It’s just the way I say things…such as “I went out to lunch with my girlfriend(s).” I apologize, but I’m not going to change my vocabulary for the few people that need clarification. If they need clarity, they’ll ask. Most people pick up on contextual cues pretty well.

      • I wonder if it would catch on for men to say they go out with their male friends as a “going out with my boyfriends” thing?

        The term cannot be used in French, we say “ami de gars” or “ami de fille” if we feel the need to specify, which is different from boyfriend and girlfriend (chum, and blonde respectively).

      • Joanna Schroeder says:

        My thought is this:

        If my lesbian friend tells me that it miffs her when I say “girlfriends” about my gal pals, I’ll try not to say it. Why? Because the truth is that I have it made, being a cis, mostly-het female in this society. I don’t mind giving up one word to help ease even one of the most minor burdens my lesbian sisters deal with.

        You do what you can, it’s just a word. If it bugs someone who is dealing with systematic oppression, it’s not worth hanging on to.

        • “If my lesbian friend tells me that it miffs her when I say “girlfriends” about my gal pals, I’ll try not to say it.”

          I would try not to, too. But mainly because it is a friend and it annoys them, and at the end of the day it makes very little difference to me but makes her happier.

        • Adam Blanch says:

          And if she tells you that you holding hands with your boyfriend is offensive to her because that’s what she does with her girlfriend? What if she wants you to stop using the word ‘lover’ because that’s how she describes her sexual partner? Will you also stop eating because there are people starving in the world, or stop walking because other people are in a wheel chair?

          Ending discrimination against minorities isn’t achieved by other people sacrificing their right to engage in normal harmless behaviour. Gay people experience horrible discrimination, but what this person is doing is taking offence at trivial things for the hell of it and putting a lot of discrimination on others to boot.

          In doing so she actually dilutes the importance of the real suffering of gay people for her own trip. If heterosexual people using the term ‘girlfriend’ is the worst problem she has, then I guess she isn’t doing so badly after all. There’s a word for being getting massively upset over tiny things – ‘precious’. The more technical term is passive aggressive.

          • Adam, I’m not sure if you’re replying to Joanna or me, but for myself, no I wouldn’t because those would make a big difference to me. You have to pick your battles and sometimes you accommodate your friends when something you do irks them, and sometimes you need to tell them to pull their head in. Hopefully if it’s a good friend they can cope with that, and hopefully if you’re a good friend you’ll react with grace when the situation is reversed. The hypothetical was about a point of friction with a friend (who in that case happens to be a lesbian.)

            If it was a relative stranger that started ranting at me about it, the accommodation would be a lot less, and the suggestion of head pulling would be more pointed. 🙂

            • Joanna Schroeder says:

              Giving up the word “Girlfriend” isn’t the same as giving up eating and you know it.

              Giving up one word that isn’t even necessary – you can say “female friends” “friends” “gal pals” “my girls” … or a billion other things – is about the smallest sacrifice I can think of making for a friend. Particularly one whose sexuality is considered deviant and amoral to 40% of the population based upon something she or he can’t control.

              One word or a few phrases that bother my friend? It’s an easy thing to do, and I’d be happy to do it, and grateful to understand how she feels more clearly.

              And I’m lucky, because I have about 5 very close, dear, best friends and a huge network of friends whom I love and trust, and whom I believe love and trust me back. I think that the basis of those friendships begins with being able to give them what they need, and they do the same.

              Case in point, I had a friend who said “Heeb” to mean “cheap” and when I said, “Listen, that really bothers me. I think we need to remember that within our parents’ and grandparents’ memories, 6 million Jews were systematically exterminated because of anti-Jewish sentiment. I think even joking about a derogatory term like that isn’t cool, even though I know you don’t hate Jews” and the person was like, “Dude, I never thought about it that way. I’m going to knock it off.”

              And that’s that.

              • Adam Blanch says:

                The principle is the same, as you well know. If girlfriend is conceded, what will be the next demand? What then will she require to satisfy her anger and her sense of specialness. She’s already discovered 10 innocuous things to get upset about, how many more can she find with determined rumination? Those who look to be offended can always find cause for it.

                You compare it to giving up the use of a word which is demeaning and stereotyping, but they are not the same thing. Such words have the intent of diminishment and degradation. Girlfriend is an innocuous word that does not belong to any one group nor describe any one group. My point being that being a person who has been at the receiving end of discrimination does not entitle them to perpetrate it. Nor does it entitle them to impose arbitrary restrictions on other people for no good reason.

                You can choose to accept such arbritary impositions on your freedom if you choose, but I will not be subject to the petty tyrannies of the easily offended and passive aggresives. they make not contribution to real understanding or the evolution of human consciousness, they merely polarise people and dilute empathy.

  49. I can agree with some of these, but for others I think people need to just chill the hell out and relax. Sometimes it seems like people LOOK to be offended.

  50. Love it! No really down right love it! While others might be upset even see this has being a bit rude back to the cis gendered and non glbt world, its right on. I cannot even begin to explain the down right rudeness of people that I have dealt with. The questions the lack of anything then the complete miss gendering. When will the world stop all the labels and just realize we are all human beings. I think that is what the author is getting at and really a great point.

    • Adam Blanch says:

      No Sandy, that is not what the author is getting at. the author is making liberal use of labels, stereotypes and gender based discrimination. The author is having ago at straight people for doing exactly the same things that she is doing. I agree with your point, but it isn’t the authors.

  51. Adam Blanch says:

    Dear Chloe, First you refer to you friends as ‘my homo’s’ and ‘our straight biffles’, then you complain about straight people using the possessive ‘my gay friends’. You then complain about women using the term ‘girlfriend’, as if this is somehow owned by lesbians. I GET IT. I get how hard it is to be faced with bigotry and hatred everyday. I get how clumsy people can be when they don’t know what to say, or how to refer to your particular group. But that doesn’t justify you doing the same thing to them.

    We are not ‘Heteros’, or ‘straights’. We are not some homogenous subset of human beings that you get to classify and stereotype. The fact that I am born white, male and heterosexual does not determine my character, my ethos or my opinions. My accidental inclusion in the ‘majority’ group does not give you the right to dictate to me how I think, feel or talk – any more than I have that right to dictate to you. Having experienced discrimination is not a good reason to practice it. That is not a conversation or a dialogue and it will not foster understanding and relationship between our groups or an improvement in the status quo.

    Power is not the answer here, compassion is. If you truly want to see greater inclusiveness, rather than just playing the victim, then lead the way and be more inclusive. If you wan to people to understand you, understand them. if you want people to respect you, respect them. If you want people to recognise your experience of the world, then recognise theirs. It won’t always work, some people are entrenched in their fear and bigotry (so are a lot of gay people by the way) but it will achieve far more than berating people for their ignorance and fostering an ‘us and them’ mentality.

    Ghandi said it best – “Be the change you want to see in the world”. Then maybe this could be a conversation, not a debate. I hear the pain and frustration in your words, and I’m sorry that this is your experience of life, but striking out at ‘straight\’ people will not alleviate it or create a better experience. Right now your approach is not the solution, but part of the problem. Every clumsy but well intentioned ‘hetero’ is a gateway to greater understanding and a more inclusive future, but that won’t be achieved with guilt trips.

    • well, said, adam.

      i, too, am sad you are so hurt and angry, chloe. no doubt, others have been thoughtless, confused, mean or just trying to deal with their own discomfort. hopefully, your true friends aren’t intentionally rude.

      thanks for offering a view on your experience. i was looking forward to reading your article and getting your perspective in a light, humorous tone, but i didn’t find your advice all that “gentle.” in fact, i find it a little confusing that your piece was included on this site, as you dismiss a whole segment of the male population. you have made me curious about how some of my friends feel about a few of these top ten. so i will ask!

      anyway, here’s hoping that compassion and communication lead us to better understanding each other in the future.

  52. All good points here and I would like to offer something for consideration. Sometimes well-meaning people say the most insensitive things not because they wish to offend, but because they are nervous and are a loss of words. When people are nervous, they sometimes try to be funny and end up saying the wrong thing.

    Please do not misunderstand, some of these things are truly offensive and people should be more considerate and careful. And yes, there are people who do intend to offend. But please don’t get angry at a friend because they make a mistake. Give them the benefit of the doubt and tell them how you feel.

  53. Chloe, you sound mad, or maybe even bitter towards the heterosexual community and their persumed stupidity, lack of tack and bullying. And I guess its understandable. It must not be easy being a lesbian, period, but I have to try to explain atleast what I get from being a heterosexual women and hearing the comments form my heterosexual community. We just dont get it? We try to wrap our minds around it but it confuses the heck out of us. This being attracted to the same sex, it just doesnt compute. So lots of us feel threaten by something we cannot understand , others because of morals inflicted on us by religion or society decide its wrong therefore, we see you as totally repulsive, and then others want to be understanding have more compassion with their lack of understanding and react and say the stupid comments you mentioned above just to deal with a situation that is uncomftrable but they like you so they try to be civil, funny and in their minds nice. Are all these reactions and train of thoughts correct, No, but I guess its the heterosexual mind that has a mind of its own. I hope one day we Heterosexuals are as cool, intelligent and less judgemental as you claim the homosexual community is. Because you know what? It will be a better world to live in.

  54. Dan Flowers says:

    Lars- Because I am not stupid, and it has happened to several friends who have also posted on articles from a slightly more conservative perspective. I am guessing that only 50% of my posts have made it through moderation. It also varies based on who is moderating as evidenced in Jim Highley’s piece which you also commented on. Every comment has been allowed there. I appreciate that.

    • I have to say, I’d be very surprised if GMP really filter comments by content. Could someone associated with GMP add to this?

      My experience is that the GMP comment platform is unfortunately not the best – hard to use, and not very stable. I think we all experience lost comments.

      • As a past moderator, no not by content. There are trigger words (obscenities, names of editors etc) that can trip a comment into moderation, but topic matter isn’t one of them.

      • Lisa Hickey says:

        Hi Lars — and Dan. A certain amount of our comments, but not all, are filtered through a technology system. That system includes trigger words that suggest the commenter is talking about provocative topics, and then those get seen by a human moderator. In the past, we had moderators working 24/7 (by having moderators from all over the world), but as of late we have a very lean group who can’t always get to comments in real time.

        There have also been a few times when comments have gone into our spam filter and not been caught.

        We never block comments based on political (or any other) orientation. We encourage people on all sides of any issue to comment, as long as they do it respectfully. We look for name-calling, people pushing the same agenda over and over, and negative generalizations about an individual or group, and attacks solely aimed at discrediting the author. We have found in the past that some commenters don’t actually know they are doing those things until they are shown past comments. We are willing to discuss with anyone who is acting in good faith by email. I am at lisa@goodmenproject.com

        • I do not believe a word you have put in your reply. I have complained of the same before and the good men project crawled behind the scenes and only replied when I did a peaceful protest asking to be told why. to date you have not responded more than sending me a message on twitter.

          I posted my complaint there.

          I know I am poor brain damaged because of what has happened to me but I feel that the universal declaration of human rights applies to me here also. You seem only to prefer educated people and what else well it would be easier to state that you do not see me as counting in the scheme of things, “LIFE” or you would have replied to my complaint as you have done here for Dan and Lars. I replied to the email supplied on twitter and it is clear this is either class racist or Ableism or both. I save everything and if you The Good Men Project does not reply to this soon I will “PUNK” you on twitter and everywhere else I find the Good Men Project.

          • Lisa Hickey says:

            Hi Andy,

            If I missed an email, I apologize, but I thought I replied to everyone who ever asked me a about our website. Unless you were calling me names, saying horrible things about The Good Men Project or otherwise threatened me, there is no reason I would not reply if I could. Almost everyone on this forum knows that, and it has nothing to do with anyones beliefs, education level, political party or anything else. We are trying to create an open and yet safe space for people to have a conversation. It is not always easy, but we do want as many people as possible to be included.

            I am sorry you feel that way, and if you would like to try emailing me again, I’m lisa@goodmenproject.com

  55. Dan Flowers says:

    Thanks for the idea Andy, but I think I will instead write it in my word processor then copy and paste it over here until it stays. I am a patient man. I would understand if I was writing anything vitriolic or hate-filled, or possibly even profane… But I haven’t. All of my comments have been well-articulated and merely have the audacity to share a viewpoint that is not in lock-step. It really makes me disappointed with this site and its moderators. I don’t really think they want honest discussion. I think they want praise without dissent.

  56. Dan Flowers says:

    Last post gone. Censored again. For a group who claims to pride itself on discussing controversial topics, you certainly are heavy-handed with suppressing differing viewpoints.

  57. Bay Area Guy says:

    Replace “straight men” with “lesbians” and tell me how you feel about that sentence.
    Reply

    Ah, but Jimbo, you forget one of the most important rules of cultural leftism.

    It is perfectly acceptable to say anything, no matter how mean, about “oppressor groups.” After all, they are completely protected by a force field of privilege, and attacks against them do not have historical power, so it SHOULD be open season on them!

    *sarcasm off*

    But really, I think this post and these comments illustrate why the American cultural left (which I distinguish from other elements of left wing thought) is such a joke.

    So many of them are obsessed with ideological purity and even being confrontational at times. They even justify an at times belligerent attitude because, hey, expecting them to be moderate/calm is the “tone argument” and a form of oppressor privilege.

    What they fail to realize, as you said Jimbo, is that such a strategy, at best, will cause your intended audience to ignore you, and at worst, make them defensive and completely tune you out. It seems like they would rather be right and score points than actually bring about any meaningful change.

    • Joanna Schroeder says:

      I think we can criticize her one point here, and still give respect and credence to her other points.

      • As a straight male who felt that #8 was a terrible generalization-of-an-anecdote-to-a-larger-population , I agree with Joanna. I hope the writer has better experiences in the future, not that she simply MUST hang out with straight men and enjoy it, but that she’s clearly intelligent and thoughtful but like all of us have some areas where we are in need of greater perspective and thought.

  58. wellokaythen says:

    Trying to put myself in the author’s shoes, I can imagine a few more annoying things a lesbian might hear all too often.

    “You’re a lesbian? That’s so cool. I was a lesbian my first two years at Swarthmore.”
    And, she spent a year as a vegan, six months as a Rastafarian, two semesters as one major, one semester as another major, lived in Guatemala for a month, got two tattoos and had one tattoo removed. In college the term was LUG: Lesbian Until Graduation.

    “So, you two have been together for a month. When are you going to get married?”
    Because, of course, all gays and lesbians want to get married as soon as possible.

    “It’s cool you’re a lesbian. So, like, can I watch sometime?”
    Because, of course, real life is exactly like a porn movie, and women in love is a spectator sport.

    “I think it’s great you’re gay. My cousin Bob is gay.”
    Because being a gay man and being a lesbian are basically the same thing. And, of course, you gay people all know each other. Oh, right, that gay guy named Bob. Everyone knows him. He’s on the Gay Phone Tree, Pride Parade Serial Number 00564792. He does my taxes.

    “Trying to put myself in the author’s shoes, I can imagine a few more annoying things a lesbian might hear all too often.”
    Because naturally lesbians can’t wait to hear how hetero men understand them and love to be reminded that people claim to understand their lives but don’t, really.

  59. “I don’t really hang out with straight men because we have nothing in common. I generally dislike their appearance/demeanor/personality ”

    Great job on reinforcing the worst stereotype that someone can have about lesbians, that they are bitter, angry, man hating women. What a great way to connect with the audience. Replace “straight men” with “lesbians” and tell me how you feel about that sentence.

  60. “8. Straight Guys Joking About “Going Gay” For One Another. ”

    I don’t know what so annoying about straight guys joking about going gay for one another? I’m straight guy and me and my friends often do that, because its fun, cute, and don’t harm anyone. At least we don’t being jerk to women by saying objectifying and sexist things to them right? Its more fun to do that to my guy friends and laugh about it instead of boring talk about hot girls out there ( really, its the most boring and cliche talk ever among guys in my opinion , i rather talk about politics than hot girls )

    And whats wrong with bromance? I think bromance is the adorable, and I’m straight.

    • Yes, number 8 threw me off as well – in an article about stereotyping and false assumptions, no less. Gay, straight, whatever….grandstanding based on your sexuality has cringeworthy potential.

      • wellokaythen says:

        It does come across as:

        “Don’t lecture me about being gay. Now listen as I lecture you about straight people.”

        • Joanna Schroeder says:

          We all have a right to tell people what is acceptable and non-acceptable for people to do or say TO us. See the distinction?

          I can’t tell you how to live your life, but I can tell you what harms, hurts, or annoys me when you do it TO me. Everyone has that right.

      • Yes, and her comment about bromance being least interesting culture? I dont know but I would not be friends with women like that, lesbians or not.

  61. ‘ “Ugly girls are gay, pretty girls are bi” is an irritating stereotype that rears its head regularly in my day-to-day life. ‘

    Alrighty then.

    ” I don’t really hang out with straight men because we have nothing in common. I generally dislike their appearance/demeanor/personality”

    REALLY?!

    I also love how the xojane url for the article is “10 things I hate about straight people”.

    There’s no good pun for this. FrURLdian slip?

  62. Martin Nash says:

    The original poster has used a couple of examples that, to me, seem to be a lynch pin of so much of the sexism debate. these are

    “when we get drunk, they inevitably feel obligated to remind me how if I wasn’t gay they “would just fuck the shit out of me.”

    And

    “In the odd case that I am surrounded by guys, I’m horrified to witness the unending, double-entendre-ridden monologue that is straight dudes joking about being gay.”

    This seems to show, as so many men have said before, that basically men talk a lot about sex and frame a lot of our references in the language of sex. This would imply that in many cases when men discuss women in terms of sex, it is the same compliment they give to their male friends. therefore is not really sexist in _intent_

    Similarly when the “gay” jokes echo around groups of men it is not homophobic it is simply the most appropriate language to use in the circumstances.

  63. Michael Rowe says:

    Why isn’t this article titled, “10 Things Straight People Say to Their Lesbian Friends That Make Me Want to Vomit?”

  64. I think this is a little over the top. I don’t mind being called a “breeder”, if gay folks will tolerate some straight dudes making lovey dovey smooches at each other as a joke.

    I honestly want to say to some of these- get over yourselves! This goes both ways… straight people… get over it, and stop treating your gay guy pal like a purse chihuahua or accessory. Gay people, stop assuming that white, straight couples have a boring sex life. blah

  65. I think that this and most other stuff on this website are far too trivial and encourage hate crimes and as there are a few Doctors and Nurses here and there I would not be surprised if we are giving free tuition to someone looking for some ideas whilst studying for their Degree.

    Don’t people get paid for that, Tutors? If anybody uses my input here without first informing me of their intentions and what they intend to do with it and to do so for money and study in any order and also to under mine the rights and well being of any survivor I will sue this website’s owners and all those involved in it’s planning before it was set up to it’s eventual end.

  66. This is just grievance collecting. Everyone today is looking for things to upset them. Unfortunately we live in a time when self-pity and self-absorption are encouraged and rewarded.

    There is plenty to offend me in your comments as well. I am surprised that the site allows it – or maybe not, as it is a left-wing site.

    But even if I am offended – so what? Life goes on. I will get it over it. How did we get to the point where feeling sorry for ourselves is a virtue?

  67. ” all the good guys are gay”

    maybe its just the good straight guys are not into you?
    and no, not all gay guys are good guys either.

  68. 1. “Men are so awful/confusing/difficult, I wish I was a lesbian. It would be so much easier.
”
    I had a joking conversation with a friend (a woman) many years ago in which I decided I could never be gay because guys are jerks and she could never be gay because women are crazy. Okay I was like 21 when I had that conversation.

    2. Using the possessive (“I love my gays”).
    I’d say that goes for any direction of possession (not just majority claiming possession of minority). Unless you’re talking about a specific subset of people in that group or specific people of that group (you know, people you would actually know on a personal level) it’s just wrong.

    3. “I’m just going out with my girlfriend.”
    While this one can get confusing I’m not of the mind that they shouldn’t be allowed to say it or anything.

    8. Straight Guys Joking About “Going Gay” For One Another.
    If possible I’d go back in time and kill the person that first uttered the phrase “man crush”.

    • The possessive. Yes, using the possessive for any individual is screwey…because duh we’re all people, not objects to be possessed. However, when it is a majority using it to claim a minority, it brings with it a whole host of other social problems. It points to the way many in a majority will “collect friends” who are different to them, to prove they are oh so diverse…or because they find them fascinating.

      And then, of course, whenever that is used within a racial context that brings with it the historical baggage of slavery.

      • Yes, using the possessive for any individual is screwey…because duh we’re all people, not objects to be possessed.
        I’m willing to make an exception when it comes to claiming individuals or subsets.

        However, when it is a majority using it to claim a minority, it brings with it a whole host of other social problems.
        Of course.

        I’m definitely all for pointing out where it is problematic to claim possession of people.

        • “I’m willing to make an exception when it comes to claiming individuals or subsets.”

          Huh?

          • An in there is an established personal bond and the person on the other end of that bond is okay with the claim.

            Good example: I have an old friend that may call me his “light skinned friend”. (He’s several shades darker than I am so we go back and forth on that a lot.) Nothing wrong with that because it’s an established understanding between us.

            Bad example: Now if said old friend were to talk about how he loves his “light skinned people” he’d have a problem. A big one.

  69. Dan Flowers says:

    Interesting. As anony mouse says… Hetero isn’t a personality. and I would add the caveat “as much as homo is..” Let the sticks and stones fly, but I generally don’t hang out with gay acquaintances simply because everything is about their being gay. The references, the jokes, the holier than thou attitude… I have had a couple of friends who were not like this. That is why they were friends and not acquaintances. I was myself around them and them around me. As far as I know, nobody brought up gender preference much at all and there was no mouth-vomit to speak of.

    • I’m going to try to explain why you might come across a lot of gay people who are constantly talking about gay things. I’m actually not trying to be confrontational here (despite my other comments), just thought this needed a bit of explaining.

      So yeah, there is a bit of a “gay ghetto.” Unfortunately “queer culture” is all quite niche; it doesn’t have a lot of crossover mainstream appeal. Most of my straight friends aren’t familiar with queer cinema, or gay comedians. And most of them aren’t following the myriad of queer blogs that discuss the latest news that affects queer people around the world. And why would they? It doesn’t affect them.

      But then consider how much of your own conversations are all about you being straight. How many jokes are about straight relationships between men and women? How many movies/songs/books/t.v. shows feature straight relationships? How often do you reference a piece of news that is about straight people? Quite often, probably.

      And that’s fine…we often like media that is representative of our experiences (at least in some way). But so that means that gay people are faced with so-called “straight culture,” at every turn…and it is not representative of our experiences. So we can often seek out media that is.

      • Still think that Charles Pierce was one of the funniest comedians I’ve ever seen … that being said. Don’t ya think that some hetero people aren’t sure what they can or can’t say? Our gay friends have been friends for a loooong time. In fact they make fun of themselves more then anyone. I was being honest when I said that I hadn’t heard those things before.

        I’m sitting here thinking about conversations I have and trying to see how they may be “straight” talk and I just don’t see it. We talk about work, sport (yes, gays can like sports), things I have to do with the house and of course my most favorite topic, my grandkids. But then again I’m old(er) and topics are not as risky. If I talk about comedy, a TV show, a movie, it has nothing to do with gay or straight.

        People simply have different interests is all … not sure why there has to be any distinction if it’s gay or straight. My wife and I like garage, estate sales … I like sports, she likes reading … all things that have nothing to do with sexual orientation.

  70. Anony Mouse says:

    “I don’t really hang out with straight men because we have nothing in common. I generally dislike their appearance/demeanor/personality”

    Whoa whoa whoa. Had some solid respect for the author before reading this line. Homosexuality isn’t a personality—and neither is heterosexuality.

    • Joanna Schroeder says:

      Yeah, that’s a rough one. I agree.

      I do think that there is validity the fact that the author has had this experience a LOT. I know a few of my friends have too. And it’s not just about feeling uncomfortable. It’s a feeling of being unsafe. Very threatening.

      That being said, to generalize this out to ALL straight men is not cool.

    • agree, lost all my respect for her after reading that line. It doesnt matter she had those experience a lot, I dont care, because I f*cking hate those kind of generalization. Do I need to say reading those make me want to vomit? Uurghh

  71. Wow, never heard those before …. Our gay friends are simply “friends,” being gay isn’t any more an issue as my wife and I being heterosexual. It’s not a topic.

    My newest grandson (now 3 months old) was just baptized, his God Father is a close friend of my SIL and daughter who went to school with him. He happens to be gay. He and his mate just hung out with everyone and we all had a good time. I didn’t even know he was gay until a few years ago, he’s always been (name withheld). Actually it was how great his dreadlocks looked that I convinced my son to get them. I like what Heather said…

  72. Almost every time I tell someone I am gay they say “Oh my friend/sister/cousin/dog is gay! They’re my friend (I’m not judging you)” More than anything else this annoys the hell out of me.

  73. Until my mid-20’s, I thought that most women were lesbians. (I am autistic and I’m very literal.)
    Why? So many women use the term “girlfriend”/”girlfriends” to refer to their friends who happen to be female, but I always assumed it denoted a romantic relationship. I did figure it out, eventually…. I’m glad to see that on this list though.

  74. Oh cool! Can we all play this game? Can we list ten things gay people say that give straight people the shits?

    I’d start with the “Straight people breed like rabbits” crack. Last time I checked straight people also produce more gay people then anyone else does. Don’t hate on me because I like the opposite gender.

    Seriously though, while the information in the article is useful to those unfamiliar with the appropriate moors, the tone of the article could use a lot of work if you truly want to impart information to others without making them “want to vomit.”

    • Couldn’t agree more. I’ve been lucky to have friends who are all over the map–it’s desensitized the issue for me. I support same sex marriage, full rights etc. But this article read like a brick to the face. Glad you got it off your chest. Next time, just delete it before submission.

    • Ah yes, the old “heterophobia is totally a thing,” response. (Yeah, I get that you didn’t say that exactly…but it’s a similar argument). The word “breeder,” is not as offensive as “fag” and “dyke.” Making a joke about straight people having a lot of children is not the same as making a joke about gay people…doing something gay.

      THIS right here, is something that truly yanks my chain. A straight person saying, “I’m all for equal rights…but if you want to convince straight people to accept you, you need to consider their feelings/perspective/values.” When queer people talk about queer experiences to straight people, we are told we must make sure to consider the straight audience. We can’t do anything to offend…we can’t be too radical…we can’t be at all condescending or express our anger, for fear of being written off as an irrational minority who is complaining too much.

      When straight people talk to queer people about straight experiences (or queer experiences for that matter), there is no such similar consideration of the queer audience. In fact, when a queer audience expresses offence at something straight people have said (particularly regarding queer experiences), we get told to “lighten up,” and “quit nit-picking,” and “people say mean things about straight people too.”

      It is perhaps the epitome of social privilege to assume that your sensibilities/perspective should always be taken into consideration at a piece of social commentary, while simultaneously ignoring someone else’s.

      • Side note: Lest you think I am some uppity lesbian, here’s a link to an article I wrote for GMP that discusses considering straight perspectives when discussing gay experiences.

        http://goodmenproject.com/guy-talk/tolerating-intolerance/

      • I don’t care about the PC references to “privilege” ( is there any word used as often to divide people?) but I do care about ordinary respect and courtesy. And that is what is absent in the article above.

        The use of extreme bitterness and anger to get a response is not an example of strength or self-respect. It is exactly the opposite, and anyone who uses it, regardless of what group they belong to, should be aware of the impact of words.

        Members of self-described victim groups – and there are dozens of them in our broken and collapsing society – are no exception.

      • So reading my comment made you feel the same way I felt reading the article? That’s good I guess because that’s pretty much what I was trying to achieve, but I think the point was missed anyway.

        The point of my comment was this: treat others with the consideration and respect with which you would like them to treat you. Just because I don’t belong do your particular minority doesn’t mean I have to take your crap any more than you have to take mine. I was trying to make that point by reversing the roles if the shitter and the shat-on.

        > if you want to convince straight people to accept you,
        > you need to consider their feelings/perspective/values

        Well actually yes, if you want to convince someone about anything you have to consider their perspective, etc. It’s called writing to your audience (not to mention just plain good writing.) If all your wanting to do is have a good rant and have everybody that already agrees with you go, “Yeah! You tell ’em!”, then ignore all I’ve said. But the writer specifically said she wanted to “enlighten you [heterosexuals] as to the things you do that are so ridiculous.” Perhaps I should not have taken that at face value?

        As for arguing over which derogatory expression is the least worse, feel free to participate in that discussion alone.

        P.S. Thanks for using the word, “heterophobia.” I don’t think I’ve ever heard that one before so it is my new word for the day.

        • Thank you, Cole.

          Nothing says vomit more than battles about which derogatory word is worse.

          Once acceptance and equality is realized for all people, that includes the equality to get treated like everyone else too. When you say stupid stuff, you can’t hide behind “your label”, because in equal world labels don’t exist.

      • It’s a test to see if the person making these demands is fair-minded, in which case they will accept that other people have the right to make demands of them, or a hypocrite, in which case they will immediately launch into special-pleading.

        If you’re going to make demands of others, then they have the right to make demands of you. No, it doesn’t matter if you think those demands are stupid. A lot of people here think that these demands are stupid. But if you have the right to control my behavior, then I have the right to control yours. You don’t get to claim social super-powers.

      • ‘ “THIS right here, is something that truly yanks my chain. A straight person saying, “I’m all for equal rights…but if you want to convince straight people to accept you, you need to consider their feelings/perspective/values.” ‘

        No, the sentiment is – if you want to be taken seriously when you say for equality, try being consistent.

      • The issue with “breeder” isn’t that I find or even think it’s as offensive as “fag” or “dyke”. It’s that gay people who use that term _intend_ it to be as offensive as those words (and use it in that manner). You should have a problem with that.

        • Mr Supertypo says:

          The word breeder to sound like a failed insult. And im unsure who they try to target, because lot of gay people also have kids. Some find out about their nature later in life, are they also targeting them? We are all breeders after all 😉

          Look I think its fair, some straight people have degrading words for homosexuals, and IMO its ok to counter it with some other words that hit straight. But ‘breeder’ to me sound like the inventor didn’t think this through properly. A analogy would be if, let me say, americans call me spaghetti (im italian) and I as a response call Americans for ‘meat bags’. DUH we all are meat bags, me you and everybody else included (synthetics and robots excluded) what kind of insult would that be?.
          IMO breeder is poor way to counter the insults they receive, just my two cents 🙂

      • wellokaythen says:

        I think the word “breeder” is very counterproductive at this point as a word for heteros, because it reinforces a stupid distinction between “people who have children” and “gay people,” as if LGBT people never have children. Calling hets “breeders” suggests that only hets have kids, when it’s clearly not the case. I’m guessing that a same-sex couple wanting to adopt or go through IVF would probably cringe at the word “breeder.”

        (Besides, I prefer the “breeder” slur for all people who reproduce, no matter what the sexual orientation of the parents. See also “mooms” and “crotch fruit.”) : – )

    • Sure – there are gay people who say insulting things. There are biexuals who are assholes. So?

      Why is it so hard to read an article that says “some of the things hetero people say, even when they try to be positive towards gays, come across as really insensitive, and after a while it gets really old”?

      Do you really not see how “you look so pretty for a lesbian” is not really very nice? Rather than go all defensive, why not just listen and see if it applies to you or people around you? It’s always useful to know what things look like for others. We should be grateful when people take the time to tell us how our behaviour affects them.

      And – next time someone calls you a “breeder” tell them to their face that it’s insulting and rude. I do, too – and I’m a homo.

      • wellokaythen says:

        “You look pretty for a lesbian” is just one example of the thousand bitchy, passive-aggressive, backhanded compliments that clueless people say all the time. (I include myself in the “clueless” category sometimes.) I believe the hip term now is “complinsult.”

        This may be something that nearly everyone can relate to in some way. If you’re tall and in any way athletic, you get this one: “you’re pretty quick for a big guy” or “he’s graceful for such a large man” or “he’s big but he’s gentle.” Gee, thanks for allowing the possibility that a large man isn’t in fact Godzilla…. I’ve heard these things from men and women, both straight and gay.

  75. 12. “Why are all these celebrities coming out all the time? It doesn’t matter.”

    This one pisses me off because it SHOULDN’T matter what someone’s sexuality is, but it DOES. It would be wonderful if we were at a place where there was no “coming out” because no one cared what gender(s) you were attracted to…but we’re not there yet. So it does matter when a public figure comes out.

    Plus, so often this gets trotted out as a way to shut gay people up and make them invisible again. As in…straight people saying they don’t want to have to deal with gay people actually being gay and telling gay stories.

  76. 11. “I’ve never been to a gay bar, but I want to. I’m too scared to without you/another gay person.”

    -And you should be. Because we can sniff out the straight in you and we’ll tie you up and do super gay things to you… But honestly, why do so many people I know feel scared going to a gay bar? Do we have a reputation for being violent and aggressive and attacking straight people?

    • This, to me, is just straight up fear of the unknown…and not fitting in. Basically, it’s what we put up with every day…being assumed to be part of a sexual orientation which you are not, getting hit on by people of the gender you are not attracted to, saying things that make people around you a bit uncomfortable because you don’t identify as the same sexual orientation as they are. Also, being made aware of their own sexual orientation in a way they usually don’t have to consider…if you’re straight and you only move in the straight world, you don’t ever have to really think about what being straight is.

      Also, the couple friends I have who’ve said as much are much more worried they’ll do something wrong and inadvertently offensive, than that anything bad will happen to them. They just aren’t quite sure how to behave.

      So I don’t find it offensive so much as just a bit frustrating.

      • Joanna Schroeder says:

        I’d rather be overly sensitive to offending someone than be at all insensitive. So I guess that’s not the worst thing that could happen.

        • Bay Area Guy says:

          I’d rather be overly sensitive to offending someone than be at all insensitive.

          Typical white liberal! 🙂

        • wellokaythen says:

          I think a lot of sympathetic straight people are most afraid of looking homophobic and therefore, worst of all, looking ignorant, so they are over-eager to try to convince the LGBT person that they aren’t ignorant, and sometimes this comes across as the opposite. Like, “I’m not racist, some of my best friends are black.” The most uncool thing is to look ignorant, so some people go overboard into know-it-all territory.

          I think a lot of heteros are curious about what it’s like to be gay and are genuinely reaching out, but they are afraid their curiosity will be offensive, so they compensate by acting like they know all they need to know. They have questions that are coming from a place of curiosity and not hatred, but the questions themselves sometimes come across as homophobic.

    • I was told gays would not do that but some gays do do that so get used to it until you can say that as far as rape goes gays men and women are no different when it comes to rape and some gay men and women just like straight men and women some rape men women and children.

      they let you think it is safe and when you believe them BAM it is the same with women on kids and people who gagged us with medicines they try to fool you first then if that don’t work they work on you with drugs that you don’t know your taking.

      Roy Dear who is a gay male paedophile drugged me to rape me and I had to be admitted to hospital to have my stomach emptied with a drug that induces vomiting. If I had not taken my time to drink what he had given me in a cup of coffee which was Luke warm I would not have noticed the affects. I thought that I had overdosed on a course of paracetamol that I was given for pains I have had due to being on Pin Down as a child.

      we all have a vice and some people think that it is normal my vice is dreaming of my perfect nun whom I now believe was either Sister Francis or her novice, I like most people never forget our first time with our abusers.

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