Jordan Gray believes in equality for men and women, but refuses to budge on the ‘who should pay on a first date’ issue.
—–
I’m a feminist who is also a passionate supporter of the men’s movement.
Basically, I’m a big softie who loves all people and just wants everyone to get along.
But there’s one topic that I’m still relatively old-fashioned about.
I believe that guys should pay for dates.
More specifically, guys who ask their partner out on a date should pay for the date and all that it entails.
Why hold on to such a potentially outdated perspective on our dating culture?
Here are three reasons why I think that men should be footing the bill, at least on first dates.
1. Makeup and Underwear
Chances are she spends a small fortune on her makeup and underwear compared to you.
While it’s true that some women don’t wear make up (or underwear, for that matter) the vast majority of the makeup industry’s revenue is being supplied by women.
Her foundation, moisturizer, bronzer, eyeshadow, eyeliner, mascara, lipstick and nail polish? Those supplies collectively cost her well over $100, and likely over an hour of her time to apply it.
Your shaving cream, aftershave, and toothpaste? Less than $20.
If the makeup argument doesn’t get you, the underwear likely will.
Chances are she spends $20 – $30 per pair of underwear, and you spend $10 on a 3-pack…and don’t forget that she likely also has the extra expense of bras.
Whether it’s societal expectation, or just differences in where we choose to put our attention going into a date, your date probably put a decent amount of effort into looking her best. Respect that effort by paying for the date.
2. Men Still Make More
While pay inequality is slowly starting to catch up, women still on average make less money than men do.
According to a recent study, women make $0.81 for every $1 that men make (as of 2010).
So if she’s making 4/5th’s the cash-flow that you are, why not be a gentleman and pick up the tab?
3. It Encourages You To Date Quality Over Quantity
If you’re going out on multiple first dates per week, then I get it… paying for every first date would consume a huge amount of your resources.
But that’s the beauty of this rule.
By pushing yourself to pay for the dates that you are excited about, you end up only going on dates with women that you feel compelled to go on dates with. You’ll naturally choose more carefully and only invest your time, energy, and resources in the dates that you’re actually excited about.
Quality over quantity is a good strategy in most areas of your life, and your dating life is certainly no exception.
If you are going on dates with women that make you light up inside… the kind that it feels like it would be a privilege to treat to a night out… then that is a very different feeling compared to “Well, I guess I’ll go on that date… and I guess I’ll pay for it… cause I should…”
If you don’t feel compelled to pay, I would argue that you should have listened to your gut and not gone on that particular date in the first place.
Make it a personal rule that you’ll only date people that you feel genuinely compelled towards and paying for the date will feel like a no-brainer.
Pay For The Date Because You Want To
If you think that dating is too expensive, maybe you should date fewer women and focus on the ones you really like, or start taking her on powerful yet inexpensive dates.
While I don’t believe in hard and fast rules about anything when it comes to dating and relationships, regardless of gender or orientation, it’s just good manners to treat someone to a date that you asked them out on.
That’s it for today. If you want some ideas for brag-worthy, cost-effective dates, check out this nifty little book that might change your perspective on paying for dates for good.
Check, please!
–
Photo courtesy of DepositPhotos.com
First of all men are not payed more than women unless for obvious reasons ie less work experience less qualifications etc. As for clothes she has a job so she should fucking pay for them, do men expect women to pay for their ferrari ? Nope Cause by your logic if a man has a car and she doesn’t then she should always buy fuel. 3rd the whole male provider thing is a cop out because your not going to fucking marry evey man you date, that may apply if she’s approaching 30 and wants to settle but most dating… Read more »
If we’re gonna be pulling the “Women have things to pay for that men don’t” argument then fine. My mom hasn’t bought a single pair of panties since I’ve had long term memory and probably before then. She does this thing called laundry. Makeup is not a necessity, like a lot of things they are a luxury. The one thing I’d say women HAVE to spend their hard earned money on that men do not are things to help with periods.
This is a stupid argument about lingerie and make-up as women dress up nicely even to meet their female friends. If anything, men explicitly make more effort for a date.
Doesn’t this article simply translate to the idea that the one who has more means to pay for the date should pay? I don’t think it’s fair to force men to pay for every date when they are already forced to do so much more. If we should be treated as equals, the expectations should be equal.
1. Makeup and Underwear So instead of women revolting against the parts of the system that impose those expectations on them they should just pass the buck and costs on to men? 2. Men Still Make More That’s not certain. In some places the gap has actually reversed and women actually outearn men. But I don’t see anyone calling for those women to pay for dates oddly. 3. It Encourages You To Date Quality Over Quantity Translation: The onus should continue to be on men to initiate. That way women and femi nists can keep on complaining that men have… Read more »
lol bitter
Btw if a girl stops wearing makeup and trying to look her best, guys aren’t going to want her.. they’ll want the prettier girl.
But doesn’t that mean that the woman in question would then have a better selection of men thats not clogged up with guys that are only into her for her looks?
I guess some women want to have their cake and eat it too where they get to do whatever they want free of consequence and responsibility and the ability to just blame someone else (in this case men).
Holy bejeezus, WTF? Who spends an HOUR on makeup? My God, no. Ten minutes or so, if it’s a REALLY special occasion. The reason men should pay for dates is simple: The “burden” of the consequences of mating fall heavily on women. If we’re attracted to each other, a relationship develops, and we start having sex, I am putting myself at risk of raising your child for the next 18 years. That affects a woman on every level, from basic finances to losing herself and her freedom. It’s an ENORMOUS risk. Paying for dates (and other things like giving her… Read more »
This is what I can’t stand anymore. Basically what i got from your trollop is that the act of paying for a date makes him a ‘viable mate’ but where are they reciprocal acts for women to show men? Other than ‘make up and undies’ I’d be branded as sexist if I said women need to cook a three course meal for me on the second date because it displays blah blah blah… she’ll be able to look for my children and me etc ‘it shows shes a viable partner and mother’. You say she raises the mans kids for… Read more »
Sex is a big risk for women, and often a losing position to be in. There’s a risk of children, diseases and heart break, humiliation etc. Birth control alone costs a fortune and we always have the fear it might fail. We risk the lot to sleep with men. Men often lie to get women into bed then disappear or turn into a controlling ogre. This takes a huge toll on women.
Cause men don.t look for a “viable partner” at firsts dates. They just look for sex. So in order to receive it, they should impress the female by giving her what she wants: the idea that she.s looking at a viable partner.
Best answer so far
1. Assumption that she spends more money on prep or the date.
2. Assumption that men are paid more than women because of sexism across the board. Maybe he makes more money because he actually works more than she does?
3. This one actually makes sense. Although I wonder why no one is telling women the same thing when it comes to all that makeup and expensive underwear in reason 1…..
So according to the author’s logic If a man brings her in his expensive flashy car, she has to pay for the date?
Rest assured a flashy car costs more than her underwear.
That was the very first thing I was thinking too…for the cost of pulling the engine and replacing the timing belt in the Ferrari that I need to drive in order for you to not text other guys in the middle of our date, I could by the entire stock of bras and underware at a Victoria Secret Store. If your underware is going to break you, just don’t wear any. Makeup, hair, nails? Why should I have to pay for all the tools you use to deceive me into thinking you are hotter than you actually are? I can… Read more »
lol who said women care what kind of car you have? I literally cannot believe you made that assumption. I would MUCH rather a guy drive an best up car if that’s all he can afford and pay for the first date. I could care less about that. And don’t flip that and say well who said I care about your makeup nails etc? Because looks ARE important on a first date more so than your car.
If I promise to wear make-up and Victoria’s Secret underwear, can I get a free meal? COOL!
“Women get paid less because they contribute less of value in their occupations. “ Umm…WTF. Oh and Frank? It is not “unbelievably sexist” for the author to point out that women are underpaid. I actually find it quite manipulative on your part to attempt to paint the author that way simply because you don’t agree with what he believes. According to Forbes, the top earning actor in 2014 was Robert Downey Jr. making $75 million. The highest earning female actor was Angelina Jolie making $30 million. That’s a huge disparity of financial worth. Based on an article from the NY… Read more »
Women are just as free to date younger men. Not really sure what that has to do with the who pays question. You may find this hard to believe, but some men do not WANT anything from anyone else.
Especially dating and marriage. My advice to them, spend the money on yourself and you won’t have to worry about paying for dates.
No Wes, socially, women are not just as free to date younger men because a lot of men themselves say that the only reason younger men date older women is for sex and they aren’t taken seriously. Even today, despite the small bit of progress we’ve made, it’s still more acceptable for a younger woman to date an older man then it is a younger man to date an older woman. When Ashton Kutcher broke up with Demi Moore, and is now with Milia Kunis, all I heard from mainly guys was jests, jokes and comments along the lines of… Read more »
Saying women are not free to date younger men is just more of the same programming we got as kids, just like our parents and grandparents did. Just like we were programmed into our roles on dating, and what was considered “right.” Saying that societal pressure is the reason is a convenient excuse and a cop-out for both men and women. We have literally been living in the Matrix, and it’s way past time to pop the red pill and wake up. Not saying it will be easy or safe, but at least it will be different.
Erin, Robert Downey Jr. is paid $75m because the box office numbers support that rate. Angelina Jolie makes $30m because that’s what the box office numbers support. Actors get paid in large part based upon their box office draw. The pay for film actors is highly unpredictable in general. Men tend to bring more viewers to movies so they tend to get paid more. Studios can always find somebody to fill the roles and they wouldn’t be paying tens of millions of dollars just to have a role cast, they pay that because there’s an audience for particular actors. You… Read more »
Frank, there is no logical reason (but please if you see one I don’t, please share) why men would bring more viewers to the movies then women if there wasn’t already a social basis toward women at work. Because if audiences truly see movies more often with men in them vs women, that means we care less about women then we do men. Or we think that men are better actors then women. Or we think that stories with more men in them are more significant and important. Any one of these reasons would point to a clear basis we… Read more »
Erin, I have a learning disorder thank you for pointing it out, it’s not like I’m self conscious. Why would the pay gap in a highly competitive rare field be indicative of social inequality? You haven’t done anything to demonstrate that and statistics break down for rare occurences. As far as roles go, what does that have to do with any of this? That’s a best a strawman. As far as that “personal attack” your entire response is based upon self-entitlement and self-centeredness. You attempt to couch it in pseudo-intellectual discourse, but the truth of the matter is that you… Read more »
Frank, someone can’t point something out that they don’t know anything about. You can’t blame me in thinking you didn’t read my response when I was talking about chief executives and board meetings and you talked about chefs and restaurants. It’s not like I just said “chief executives” one time and then stopped talking about the topic. I wrote a whole paragraph on it. Which is why I still believe you didn’t fully read my comments. You’re clearly are an intelligent person. You made a mistake. No big deal. Just say, “sorry, read that wrong.” A couple years ago I… Read more »
Yup.
Men paying for dinner because women get paid less? Come on. I’m pretty sure that if I was a woman I would appreciate someone paying my dinner because they want to. Doing it to fill a salary gap is just a little bit insulting.
It’s unbelievably sexist of the author to suggest that women are being underpaid. Women get paid less because they contribute less of value in their occupations. It’s ridiculous that in the 21st century authors are still claiming that women are being underpaid, even though there’s no evidence that women as a group are being paid less than men as a group when you control for the experience and specific job. Also, the last woman I went out with made more money than I do, and yet somehow I’m supposed to pay for the date because men in general make more… Read more »
“Women get paid less because they contribute less of value in their occupations.” -this line is the most offensive, sexist and insane theories i have heard in a long time, and that’s saying something. women are DEFINITELY paid less than men; it’s not a feminist rant, it’s an undeniable fact.
I am in full agreement, that if a man ask a woman out on a date he should pay for it. Just like I believe in opening a car door for a woman. Opening a door for her and letting her go first. Being a gentlemen really doesnt cost anything at all. Being a good role model for the younger gerneration coming up cannot hurt at all.
If I invite someone to do something with me I consider it rude to not pay. I invited them after all.
Now expecting the man to pay because he is a man is sexist imo.
Men didn’t pay to get laid! Men paid for attention and to get that attention you had to be better than at least the nearest possible “rival”. Nowadays, you’re just dating other you (we are all equals, all the same, no differences, bla bla bla), getting laid is your first and only idea as men now. So, I guess it is the same for women (no?) at the end aren’t we the same? Equality brings this! (not talking about all equalities, women are more capable than men at nearly all matters, I’m talking about the sexuality issu) Wake up! Romanticism… Read more »
I fully support “enthusiastic date payments” and ensuring the one on the receiving end gets affirmative consent along the way for all expenditures including, but not limited to: appetizers, drinks, main course, dessert, local taxes, and gratuities.
“No I don’t mind paying for the wine” is simply not good enough.
“Yes! I would love to pay for the daily soup” is the gold standard, and the receiver should ensure it is given freely and without pressure.
I feel like I walked into a time capsule and taken back to the 1950’s, when reading this opinion piece….
Disagree. To start with, a woman doesn’t HAVE to use make up. If she does, it’s because she wants to. And assume that she has to, it is kind of sexist, don’t you think? Yes, woman still gets lower salary them men. But I don’t think letting a guy pay for the dinner will do that any better. It only reassure this roles that we are still on it. What I think, as a woman, is that I feel uncomfortable with someone paying me stuffs . If I want to go out with someone it’s because I liked the guy.… Read more »
I agree with a lot of the other comments. Pay because you want to, because the date is going awesome and you’re feeling generous. Or pay because you decided in advance that you were going to pay. Don’t pay because you feel you “have to” or because you think it’s a quid pro quo situation (which is what a lot of men assume). If you’re unsure about her just yet, or if money is tight, feel free to respectfully suggest “let’s split it” or “I’ll get the first round of drinks, you get the next round.” Simple. And then continue… Read more »
How about who’s picking the place? If someone asks me out and takes me to a place I can’t afford (without checking in with me), that could get really awkward.
That is definitely a problem, and one of the reasons I disagree with “going dutch” unless the other person specifically says they want to. This is also why when I was dating I kept my first few dates very inexpensive (no more than $10-15 total.)* I might love dropping $300 on a restaurant – my date may really not feel comfortable with that, and even if I’m totally okay with it, my date may not be comfortable with me paying for it, and I won’t necessarily know that until I get to know my date a bit. By keeping the… Read more »
Sounds like the joke about the communist party “we are all equal except some of us are equal more.” How about sharing the first few dates until we know if we like each other and then decide going forward? Your advice of limiting your number of dates to save money (while she can go on as many dates as she pleases as he/they pay) sounds a little patronizing towards women who “can’t pay their own way?” Dates don’t have ti be expensive. Be creative, picnics in a park or glass of wine on a beach, hiking, art tour or ?… Read more »
I’ll kindly disagree on all points. Not all men (yes I know I’m horrible, awful person for implying it) make more than all women. Sometimes it’s the other way around believe it or not. I strongly believe whoever asks the other person out should expect to foot the bill, unless if the other person at some point states they prefer to go halfsies. Also, it’s a (your) choice to wear makeup and buy expensive underwear (believe me I’m a guy and do both)….no one is obligated to make financial amends to your choices. Does anyone else get the feeling from… Read more »
I agree with you 100% and love to give back in my own ways…homemade dinners, buying lunch etc etc. The only person that makes a woman feel like she’s going to owe something if a man pays for dinner is the woman. (and I’m a woman) No one makes me feel anything I don’t want to feel. There are no victims here. Most women love a gentleman and if a man is going to ask a woman out, in my opinion, he should pay. And the lingerie cost is only the beginning. There’s a whole lot of grooming that goes… Read more »
I completely agree with this. If I date a man I would like him to pay for the date, however, I date women, extremely feminine, lady like women. When I take them out I pay. No exception.
This is heteronormative as all hell. Props to you for identifying as a feminist, but please acknowledge the breadth and intersectionality of feminism as well. How does this article account for queer relationships? And although statistically, men earn more money than women for doing the same work, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that men earn more than the women they are dating. What you’re suggesting and evoking is a potentially false (and slightly archaic and presumptuous) power dynamic. The third point, where you say, “pay because you want to pay” is the best point, and frankly the only point that… Read more »
Feminist here. Cost of dates should be split. If one person makes plenty of money and the other is barely scraping by, the couple can take that into account in a way that is mutually agreeable at a point when they are comfortable enough with each other to discuss it. Makeup’s for me most days of the week, slightly for my date on a date. This is not enough to come close to offsetting the cost of the date. One doesn’t buy fancy underwear solely for a single date. One partner might be paying for a gym membership what the… Read more »
Well said
Should guys always pay for first dates? No. Suggesting as such is the ultimate epitome of gross hypocrisy for a so-called “feminist”. These stereotypes need to die. Period. Also, can we please stop the man-bashing? Honestly, it’s getting tiring. I really don’t care what personal costs someone has. Unless someone is asking a woman to dress in a certain way, then it’s up to the woman to make that decision. Underwear? Is he going to be SEEING that underwear on the first date? No? Then it’s irrelevant. Makeup? Is something wrong with the natural look? Is he telling her how… Read more »