photo: douyoulove.info
What constitutes infidelity? Looking at porn? Chatting with an old flame on Facebook? Guys weigh in.
With the list of famous philanderers on the front pages of the most reputable newspapers continuing to grow with the likes of Arnold, Ashton, Seal, Tiki Barber, Tiger, Jesse, Elliot, the question of what constitutes infidelity is on our minds. And, surprise surprise, men and women don’t always agree. Does having a special friend of the opposite sex at work count as cheating? How about looking at porn? Striking up conversations with an old flame on Facebook?
According to an ongoing infidelity poll of over 8,000 women conducted by WomanSavers, 69 percent of women believe that viewing porn is emotional cheating. In a similar WomanSavers poll, 92 percent of all women felt that online affairs constituted infidelity. (Granted, the readers at WomanSavers—a site where you can do a background check on a guy before going on a date—might not reflect women everywhere.)
But suffice it to say, there are many views on emotional fidelity. We would love to hear yours. As a guy, what do you think is important for a fulfilling relationship? What’s OK and what’s not? Do you have the urge to stray emotionally or physically? How do you deal with those urges?
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This is an interesting gray area, since most men probably can’t even define the term “emotional fidelity,” and would be unlikely to engage in it unless they were being physically unfaithful at the same time. From the male perspective, it seems like a package deal, so I’m not sure how useful it is to try and make a distinction between the two types of cheating.
—Tom Perrotta, author of The Abstinence Teacher and Little Children
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Our biology has its own imperatives and we can recognize and respect that without believing that those feelings represent our true self. It’s similar to the way we behave when drunk; the old phrase is “in vino veritas,” but we know today that the uninhibited self isn’t the “true” self, but only another facet of our personality. The problem is when we think that that’s who we really are, and either beat ourselves up over it or use it as an excuse to choose to behave badly. Desires are a product of our bodies, just like indigestion, and these momentary urges don’t have to mean anything more than indigestion does—unless we make them more important through our thoughts or actions.
—Dylan Wittkower, ethicist
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One point of view that often gets dropped out this conversation is that of the growing number of Americans who are polyamorists. These people have solved the paradox of wanting both long-term committed relationships and multiple partners by being honest about it. Fidelity for polyamorists means being honest about their feelings for others, instead of trying not to have them. I have been in polyamorous relationships since 1967. I have been with the woman I am married to since 1961, and I have several other relationships that have lasted for decades.
—“Silenus”
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If women want men to be cool and in control of ourselves, to tamp down on and corral the intensity of our desires, that costs something: a measure of warmth and openness that we bring to any relationship; it also potentially stokes a toxic brew of resentment.
—Donald Unger, lecturer, Massachusetts Institute of Technology and author of Men Can: The Changing Image & Reality of Fatherhood in America.
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I hear about this every night on my radio show. Emotional fidelity is something men can do but his needs must be met—just like a woman. When a man is not getting what he needs, he may start looking elsewhere for someone to take care of his desires. If we have a good lady at home, then we’re going to resist any sort of temptation. And it’s easy for a woman to keep a man interested by being a true friend who’s got his back, providing support, and tearing it up in that bedroom. Simple.
—Jerry “The Loverman” Wade, syndicated Talk Show Host
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If a man’s emotional needs are addressed, he feels respected and that elicits a bonding trust within him toward the woman who best addresses his particular combination of emotional needs. His emotional needs would include protecting his reputation, giving him his quiet time, and supporting the lifestyle he works to achieve. Depending on what is most important to him as an individual, even the most notorious player can be emotionally faithful if his emotional needs are met. One of the differences between men and women is the emotional impact that the act of sex has on the genders. For women, the act of sex can potentially address most of her emotional needs. For men, the act of sex IS an emotional need; thus, since it only addresses one emotional need, great sex alone will not make a man emotionally faithful.
—Frank Kermit, relationship coach
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As a man you have to be willing to put all cards on the table. I believe a relationship works when both partners inspire each other, as well as feel fully expressed. If someone in the relationship is stifled or unhappy with anything else in his or her life, it will chip away at the relationship. Also, if you’re not getting what you want in a relationship, don’t be afraid to say: “I love you, but I’m not happy in this relationship.” Honesty is key.
—Jason Silva, founding producer/host for Current TV
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To suggest that men cannot be faithful, when sixty percent of married women cheat on their husbands, is preposterous. In addition, women lie about their fertility and use of birth control (which is maternity fraud), as well as the actual men who fathered their children (paternity fraud).AshleyMadison.com, a noted dating website for married people, reports a significantly increased enrollment of women the day after Mother’s Day. Fidelity has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with integrity, maturity, and stability.
—Marc H. Rudov, author and Fox News personality
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Emotional infidelity is a lot harder to quantify than sexual infidelity. Where’s the line? What if it’s only one-sided? I bet a lot of guys think of it as a loophole in cheating—”Hey, we’re not touching.” But I bet that if men imagined their wives emotionally straying, they’d be as alarmed, if not more so, than if their wives slept with other men. You know damn well if your wife is lying in your shared bed or someone else’s, but you’ll never really know where her emotions point.
Communicate. Speak up when something is wrong. If a relationship is healthy, you won’t need to look outside of it to feel loved. And include. If you’re growing close to some woman—someone at work, or someone you met through a friend, or whatever—invite her (and her boyfriend/husband) to join you and your girlfriend/wife for dinner, whatever. Bring a relationship out into the open, and make it part of your public life, and it no longer feels like a secret space to stash your feelings.
—Jason Feifer, editor, Men’s Health
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A man must be emotionally present to his wife in order for emotional faithfulness (whatever that might actually be) to even be an option. If a man is indeed emotionally present, then he can be truthful—to himself and to her. It seems to me that any type of “emotional infidelity” must be a result of emotional disconnection (absence) with one’s spouse. I suspect that if a man is truly emotionally present and authentic, then the whole issue of emotional faithfulness just sort of dissolves. If he is emotionally present, then he is truly in the relationship. The marriage is alive.
—Justice Marshall, creator of The Hero Principles, theheroprinciples.com
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Many men have no concept of being emotionally faithful—they feel that physical faithfulness is enough of a “sacrifice.” While a man would flip out if his wife was ‘emotionally’ involved with another man, he often do not recognize or care that he is emotionally involved with another woman. Many men also think that having a relationship with another woman that does not involve sex; of course it usually ends up involving sex of one sort or another, but is rather a way of ‘sharing feelings’ is somehow OK. Men can be anything they choose to be—it is making the right choices that makes a good man.
—Pablo Solomon, artist
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The best way to explain emotional fidelity is to explain what constitutes emotional infidelity. Technically, this is when you choose not to or you’re unable to share your emotions, thoughts and feelings with your significant other, yet you share them with someone else of the opposite sex. Although you’re not having a physical affair, you are being emotionally intimate with someone other than your partner.
Emotional infidelity is not simple flirting. But, it can begin with flirting, as that is how many relationships develop. That casual banter with a co-worker may turn in to flirting and something more serious and emotionally involved as time goes on.
To be emotionally faithful is to not betray your partner. You know your partner better than anyone else; what her needs are and how she feels about everything. If you’re sharing special thoughts, feelings, ambitions or dreams with someone other than her, then you are knowingly being emotionally unfaithful and trust has been broken.
–Paul Falzone, Chief Executive Officer eLove.com
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I always liked the saying, “The definition of character … is doing the right thing when no one is watching.” I think this applies to relationships as well.
—Ted Wayman, news anchor
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Men fall in love with women other than their spouses all the time, and I would bet it happens in reverse. It doesn’t have to be a big deal: a crush, a friendship that flows and then ebbs in intensity. This is harmless if key lines aren’t crossed. That’s the crux of it for me and my wife: defining what those key lines are. We’ve decided they are: sex, revealing personal secrets/exposing some sacred trusts, and allowing too much time to be taken away from our relationship. They are NOT flirtation or infatuation or attraction. I mean, come on: Cupid only shot his arrow through my heart—or my wife’s heart—once in our lifetimes? That seems pretty naïve to me. Better to admit the fact that a wide variety of people are going to appeal over the decades of a committed relationship, and focus on what the lines are that are not to be crossed.
—Stuart Horwitz, senior editor, BookArchitecture.com
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It seems to me that the journey to emotional honesty is first a journey to understand one’s feelings. If I understand what I am feeling, how my fears color my feelings, then I may have a shot at being emotionally honest—if I can find the words and the courage to express them.
—Joe D’Ariggo, business executive
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Infidelity isn’t a “capacity” problem; it’s a ‘choice’ problem: Do I choose to grow up, be responsible, and embrace the requirements for loving rather than remain detached and ungrounded as a “flying boy” in search of Never Never Land? Granted, there’s a complex relationship between fidelity to one versus desire of another. What is undeniably in our nature is a lust for novelty, some modicum of freedom and separateness while in passionate pursuit of its polarity—belonging to some “one” and committing to a person that expands our sense of ourselves.
Infidelity is not so much about the sex as it is about the deception, both toward our self and our partners. So let’s get honest. Men have the ability to be both intimate and faithful. It’s not that men are commitment phobic; it’s that they’re frightened by the requirements for loving someone because it asks us to evolve. Are we willing to become who we must to live up to what love and a real relationship demand of us? It’s time to choose.
—Dr. Jay Ferraro, licensed clinician and relationship expert
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Tom Matlack, together with James Houghton and Larry Bean, published an anthology of stories about defining moments in men’s lives — The Good Men Project: Real Stories from the Front Lines of Modern Manhood. It was how the The Good Men Project first began. Want to buy the book? Click here. Want to learn more? Here you go.
About Tom Matlack
Notice how “faithful”, “loyal”, “straying” are all words you might use to describe dogs as well as words women use to describe men. THAT is creepy.
If want to be some woman’s trained animal in return for sex or love then fine, but be aware that monogamy is not the natural state of man, and in the history of humanity as well as today it is a minority pursuit – even in western cultures which idealise it to an impossible degree, the high rate of “cheating” shows that it is just a front to what really goes on behind the scenes.
As for pornography, women spend their entire lives with full access to the most beautiful thing that exists, and thinking negatively of men for even looking at pictures of womens’ bodies borders on sexism and is certainly quite insulting.
I think that women just can’t take the fact that if a men have access to other women in whatever way then they do not have the complete and utter control over men that they crave.
May I say: yikes. However, I think you’re confusing immature attitudes about fidelity with the be-all end-all of fidelity.
No, he’s right. What’s immature is the idea that you have ownership of someone else’s mind and body. This isn’t anything new of course, humans have been laboring under these primitive beliefs for thousands of years. Look at how we organize our societies with the belief that people belong to the State. Its sick, its dysfunctional, it is mental illness. And yet, it is.
“What’s immature is the idea that you have ownership of someone else’s mind and body. This isn’t anything new of course, humans have been laboring under these primitive beliefs for thousands of years.”
Who has ownership? I am confused what you are talking about. He was talking about terms for men, which would imply women have ownership over men, but then you brought up our human history in which case men have had actual ownership over women (bridewealth, taking their property upon marriage, dowries, etc.). Are you just talking about relationships in general?
If so, I would say any relationship in which a person feels they have ownership over another is defintiely unhealthy, but that is not true of all relationships.
Doctor Jim, perhaps monogomy isn’t natural for you. But I do believe it’s “natural” for some men. Lets not confuse “natural” with “easy”. It’s natural for me to be healthy. But living a healthy life style is not easy. I have to work out, eat right, get enough sleep, deny myself things that might otherwise be pleasurable. “Natural” and “easy” are not the same words.
Monogomy certainly isn’t easy. But then, there are also draws backs to having multiple partners. They both have their pluses and minuses. It comes down to what a person ultimately wants. Some people only want it one way, some want it both. Whatever way you want it, be honest about it. There will be someone who will see it your way and want a similiar relationship.
I think Christopher Ryan put it best:
“Notice how “faithful”, “loyal”, “straying” are all words you might use to describe dogs as well as words women use to describe men. THAT is creepy”
Those are used for both genders when referring to infidelity. As this is on a site for men, however, the article is geared towards men’s fidelity.
And really? Women use words to describe men that are the same as describing dogs? Do they use the word “bitch”? Because that’s not even a subtle comparison to dogs that women routinely receive. You are gendering this “animal comparison” thing when it is not an issue of gender.
Sometimes porn, or more properly, erotica, can be just the thing for men, women, or couples. I don’t like abusive, degrading, or overly fetishized porn, but know that some get through times of sexual deprivation by using it. Example: wife may have zero libido during menopause.
Sex is the new McCarthyism, unfortunately. We have moral panics around it. I like that the sixties liberated sexuality, and want to preserve it.
Okay… I can’t define infidelity, but I know it when I see it.
For me, if a woman is asking me for “emotional fidelity” and meaning “I can’t deal with the fact you’re a fully-rounded adult who experiences other attractions, please build me a world in which I never have to face the truth of the person you are”, then she’s asking me for something unreasonable. She’s asking me to lie to her and lies don’t build strong relationships. They breed resentment and contempt for your partner.
There’s a huge difference between being unwilling to take a step towards maturity, and confusing true maturity with giving in to another person’s insecurity-fuelled demands.
And sometimes you need to do the right thing after your infidelity, like take care of your children from previous relationships, stop making excuses for your stupid mistakes and blaming other people. It is a joke that people who make mistake after mistake because of there big egos are capable of writing books and counseling people on love and relationships grow up men. Damage is done from irresponsibility and lack of commitment and blaming another instead of working together to make the most for the innocent victims aka the children. These people need to look at the big babies in the mirror and turn them into the man in the mirror. EGOTISTICAL IDIOTS
I suspect that few men’s, and actually few women’s, sexuality is actually like our cultural fictions portray it, sex-negative feminist or just traditional. I see the sense in not dating outside a committed relationship for those who choose this path. God knows that can create problems, especially if outside relationships are discussed with the commited partner. But our sexuality, all of our sexuality, is much more plastic and universal…
There are some really strange ideas about porn and fidelity in these comments. To me it is simple. Porn is not a relationship, it says nothing about my emotional connections. I do not see ‘all women as interchangeable’ , and anyone who spends any time around guys discussing porn would soon see that far from seeing women as interchangeable, many men have very specific preferences for actresses. Porn is a release, a habit. My porn consumption does not change when I am in a dedicated, crazy-monkey-sex relationship and when I am single. It is not by any means a replacement or competition for a real woman. Any woman who thinks it is has commitment issues. A woman who thinks that way would not be the one for me, the same way any woman who did not understand any other aspect of my self would not be.
Emotional fidelity is also fairly simple. One of my best friends in the world is a chick. Do I love her, in that she is one of the most important people in the world to me? Yes. Do we share emotions and thoughts? Sure, she knows me better than anyone else in my life right now. We are emotionally involved. But this is not romance.. I am not interested in her that way. Any woman who sees my relationship with this friend as cheating, again, does not understand me.
I find it intellectually amusing to see people make absolute, no-compromise rules about things that are so incredibly poorly defined. “No porn in my house under any circumstances! Erotica is okay, of course. What’s the difference? Can’t explain it, they’re just different.”
And on the other side, looking at porn is never ever cheating? I can imagine a scenario where a married man watches sex tapes of himself and his ex-girlfriend. If I were his very open-minded, pro-sex wife I think would be an understandable dealbreaker for me. Or if a woman really really likes this one kind of porn and watches it all the time because it reminds her of the man who got away, as a husband I would find that unacceptable. (Okay, rare cases here, but my point is that it’s generally unrealistic to expect a total free pass just because it’s on a screen.)
I have never done any of the things that you question. No affairs (emotional or physical), no dirty magazines, no computer peccadilloes, no chatting with flames, no knowledge of exes, nothing.
Not only do I not look at any woman other than my wife, I don’t even notice them. And I don’t have any nearby friends, of either gender.
And yet, arguable, I am as guilty as the worst of your offenders:
I am fighting without quarter against marriage itself. I believe that marriage is a weapon used against men, boys, and fathers. I cannot rest while young men walk innocently into the slaughterhouse, to be dispatched and dismembered.
My wife feels betrayal, pain, and insecurity, just as though I had been “unfaithful” in a physical way. I don’t believe in “us”, and she knows it. I think our happiness is a crime, a lie that adds legitimacy to a broken institution that inflicts unspeakable harm on millions of men, boys, and fathers.
So, to answer your question, it it can get very very complicated.
While a part of me understands your political point of view, I feel great sadness that you and your wife face this particular pain. If she loves you, cares for you and believes in your unit as an “us” I can understand how she’d feel betrayed. Do you have true fear she’ll leave you? Can you allow happiness into your life and marriage? This is the intimacy of which I spoke in the other post, the risk and vulnerability that both partners give. If you truly don’t trust her or any woman, then I don’t know how you can truly share intimacy with her.
It sounds so lonely for you, Anthony, and while it’s not really my business, I still feel a sense of sadness for you both. Love is precious and I hope you can take some joy in her love for you.
We have two boys. My wife is more angry than I am about what is happening to my older boy in School. She is the one who pushes me to to attend board meetings and get to the bottom of K-12 male persecution policies. We find great, mutual fulfilment in protecting our boys from a system gone berserk.
In November 2010, when my son was first “warned” because he drew a picture of a Jedi knight, my wife and I posted an appeal for help on the site “feministe”. As a consequence, we were elected runner-up most h@ted trolls of the year on that site. As a consequence, I found the MRM, and my life’s mission.
http://www.pellebilling.com/2010/11/misandry-hits-ny/
Here is me scolding a fellow MRA in November of 2010:
“Jim, I guess what I am trying to say is that I wish you had not used the term “scalded hogs.” If men’s sites cannot become less hostile to women, feminists will never visit. And, without the help of feminism, masculism is going nowhere.”
Does not sound much like AntZ, does it?
What came between wife and I is that the suffering of my son awoke injuries that I had suffered as a child, at the hands of a large community of feminists:
* My wife is fighting FOR our sons
* I am fighting AGAINST the enemies of men, boys, and fathers.
To me, every ally of my enemy is also my enemy. Marriage, however beautiful in principle, is now an ally of feminism. Therefore, I fight to destroy it. My wife is my best friend, my rock, my happiness, my everything. But, the marriage between us is a horrible thing. She can’t understand this.
I imagine it’s very hard for her to understand as she loves you so much. I know you have a mission, but I hope your relationship stays solid through it. She sounds like she’s very important to you and loves you very much.
Thanks, Julie.
Why not make a social experiment, Anthony? Why not a no fault divorce but remain living together with mutual full custody? Would she be willing to take that kind of stand in protest if it helped the two of you to actually be more of a unit and an “us” though as domestic partners?
I just wanted to say, that is a brilliant compromise.
Anthony, I agree that marriage is a pathetic sham. Nobody should be married, its anti-individualistic, its irrational, and it comes from a mentally ill perspective – the idea that people are property.
I do not believe in the necessity of institutional marriage either, but from a non individualistic non possessive aspect. I am Polyamourous and refuse to support a system which grants status to only ‘some’ kinds of relationships. I think actively Poly people who get married are committing the worst frauds against their future emotional long term commitments. Marriage is a pure sham.
“Nobody should be married, its anti-individualistic, its irrational, and it comes from a mentally ill perspective – the idea that people are property.”
Our society is moving away from that idea though. More people marry for love now, rather than financial reasons. And with that comes increased individuality within a marriage.
It’s not irrational, and it is judgmental for you to tell people what they should and should not do. Marriage is not for everyone, which our society is realizing, hence the dropping marriage rate. But for some people, it works and they are happy with being married. Just because you don’t like marriage and it is clearly not for you, it doesn’t mean it isn’t for other people.
There is as much or more evidence that some people are born included toward polyamory as homosexuality, where a man (or woman) can be happy and content with two or more intimate relationships. For millenia, that was not uncommon or considered immoral, as long as all parties were awared. However, for religious and political reasons, that is now considered cheating,
Is it any more unreasonable and realistic to force a person who is naturally inclined toward polyamory into monogamy than it is to force a homosexual into a heterosexual relationship? What are the odds that such a person will over the long run be satisifed and fight their natural leanings for a lifetime?
However, infidelity has become whatever people say it is, and can even change over time. I’m not sure if that’s reasonable and realistic either.
Correction/addition:
“where a man (or woman) can ONLY be happy and content with two or more intimate relationships. That is, one is not entirely fulfilling.
Cheating =/= polyamory. People who don’t understand what polyamory is may not understand that, but people may be able to be more acclimated to the idea as our attitudes towards sex relax.
You can still have a polyamorous relationship, though people may not understand, but a lot of people don’t understand homosexuality and people are still out there in homosexual relationships.
We should all just continue schooling people on what polyamorous means.
That’s an interesting question…I guess I am a bit naive about that….
Last night I was at a wedding banquet with a bunch of co-workers….the co-worker’s uncle came over to my table and made conversation with me and my fellow table mates….I innocently thought he was just kinda bored and wanted to be social and friendly (I’m sure if my husband was there he would have hung out with him and talked and bonded)….
My table mates and the wife of this guy kept giving looks at him as he kept swooping by to make more casual conversation….I could see the couple next to me tapping each other on the thigh every time he (or his wife!) looked in my direction….I tried to stay deep in conversation with the people in my group but I could see him trying to angle for eye contact and a conversation cue….
I was wondering today if I have a blind spot when it comes to men….Do I think I am having an innocent friendly conversation with a guy while other people see red flags? I suppose there is safety in numbers (being part of a group that knows you well and looks out for you)…..perhaps if I was alone he would have talked more or said something inappropriate (although he was there with his wife, kids, and extended family)…..Maybe other people see things that I don’t….Maybe that’s been my problem…I’m not suspicious enough of people’s motives and too green about certain human interactions….Although it would have been impolite to totally ignore him and diss him….
Communication within a relationship is very key in this area, judging what is faithful or unfaithful.
For example, I know that a number of people don’t consider porn cheating. However, I do consider it a form of cheating. No one is allowed to tell me that’s “wrong” and “ridiculous” if that’s my standard. It’s up to my partner and me to establish what behavior is okay and not okay in our relationship.
I also think there is a huge mistake we make in society today about our “needs”. The difference between what is really a “need” and what is a “want” or “desire”. No one person IS going to fulfill you. But if you find that you need two, three, four…however many people you think it takes, to fullfill your needs, I would make the argument that you are looking for things in other people that you should be finding in yourself. That that isn’t an issue about how many relationships you need but what is going on within you. Looking for external things to validate yourself or your needs. I also think we expect all our “wants” to be met the second we feel it. I have had past relationships where the guy had looked at porn, I found out, got upset, and his argument was “but you weren’t around”. My thoughts where always that I shouldn’t have to be around 24/7 just to expect my partner to practice some self control. I know that men appreicate when I practice self control not to gorge myself on ice cream and become over weight. And I think alot of people, not matter the topic, respect a partner that uses self control more then one that has to fulfill themselves teh second they feel something. Unfortunetly, in today and in our culture, we are told every little sexual feeling we fell MUST be acted on or we are somehow denying ourselves something. And I think that’s an unhealthy belief.
“It’s up to my partner and me to establish what behavior is okay and not okay in our relationship.”
I second this idea. If something makes one partner feel uncomfortable, I would certainly hope the other partner would want to make them happy and not do said thing.
That will ensure a temporary relationship. The chances of a relationship working long term are low if it’s all about one person’s comfort. I do things that I am uncomfortable with all the time if it makes my wife happy and don’t prevent her from doing things that bring her joy pleasure even if It makes me uncomfortable. That’s called not being a selfish person, not putting yourself in first place, showing self sacrificing love. That’s how you stay married for life.
“Men fall in love with women other than their spouses all the time, and I would bet it happens in reverse. It doesn’t have to be a big deal: a crush, a friendship that flows and then ebbs in intensity. This is harmless if key lines aren’t crossed. That’s the crux of it for me and my wife: defining what those key lines are.”
Stuart Horwitz had the best response I thought. What determines fidelity is defined by the people within that relationship. Guidelines need to be set. And these are going to vary across relationships.
I have agreed with his point in my own relationship: it would be unreasonable for me to expect my boyfriend to never be attracted or like another woman besides me and I would find it unreasonable for him to expect the same of me. I would expect him to put me before any other crushes, though, and I would do the same for him.
Also, while this is framed as for men, with men being the “strayers” it is important to note that women are just as likely to “stray.” This definitely seems like an issue for both genders to consider.
“I have agreed with his point in my own relationship: it would be unreasonable for me to expect my boyfriend to never be attracted or like another woman besides me and I would find it unreasonable for him to expect the same of me. I would expect him to put me before any other crushes, though, and I would do the same for him.”
Totally agree with this Artemis. I don’t think any one expects that their partner will never ever be attracted to another person. It’s what their partner does with that attraction that matters.
For me, ifidelity has nothing to do with exclusiveness, but everything to do with trust. When you go from openess and honesty to sneaky and lying, it breaks the bonds of trust and that is my definition of infidelity. In my life, emotional and sexual infidelity only occur when you can no longer trust your partner to be 100% honest with you.
I think infidelity is what each person or couple defines it to be. However it always seems to be about a certain level of honesty about agreed rules or beliefs. For instance even in Open marriages there are often rules which if volatilized would be seen as infidelity even though they do have sex with others.
As for porn issues – I always ask women to consider their views about women having vibrators and/or “battery operated boyfriend” toys. Most women (married, single, dating) see no issues with having a f”BOB’s” hidden in their sock drawer. They even have parties amongst themselves to sell and laugh about them.
“As for porn issues – I always ask women to consider their views about women having vibrators and/or “battery operated boyfriend” toys. Most women (married, single, dating) see no issues with having a f”BOB’s” hidden in their sock drawer. They even have parties amongst themselves to sell and laugh about them.”
Correct. I’ve made this point before. It’s hypocritical to support the use of sex toys while arguing that the use of porn is cheating. Either both or neither are.
I think “infidelity” is a difficult thing to define because we haven’t first defined what “fidelity” means.
Cheating is a lot easier. Cheating is, quite simply, breaking agreed upon rules. It doesn’t matter what those rules are, how many people are involved, whether a relationship is open or closed or exclusive or inclusive – cheating is when you’ve agreed not to do X and then you do X anyway.
But fidelity?
fi·del·i·ty /fəˈdelitē/
n
Faithfulness to a person, cause, or belief, demonstrated by continuing loyalty and support.
Sexual faithfulness to a spouse or partner.
The second definition is, once again, easy to define. But what do we mean by loyalty and support? Unlike sexual behavior, I think “loyalty” is something less amenable to negotiation and denotation. It seems a bit more like a feeling rather than a behavior, and because of that is probably asymmetrical within a relationship.
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