Gregory Jaquet thinks Catholic-inspired Latin American culture creates the framework for domestic violence.
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In Latin America, as far as I know, and in the rest of the world, as I suspect, the Roman Catholic religion creates generations of violent men.
We could talk about that freely if we were not surrounded by a society with so many persons believing in the interpretation of God’s plan as made by the Catholic church. They follow living rules allegedly established by Him, with little discussion on how they might be interpreted. Well, I’d like to discuss that. Can we?
The reasons often posited, when men are violent — especially with their wives and children — are as follows: anger, frustration, jealousy, difficulty in regulating strong emotions, and the engrained idea that they have the right to control women.
These are the kind of men, it seems to me, that Catholic Latin American culture seem to generate. They often follow the Church’s strict principles on social life — especially sexual life. I meet these people everyday in the Institute where I work. 500 of them weekly. They have been violent with their families or they are desperately trying to fight their anger and frustrations so that they avoid battering their children and wife.
Religious culture, of course, is not the only reason. But it has to be considered as an important cradle for many family problems. The emotional life of these men, guided by the principles they inherited from strict Catholic teachings, are imbalanced and painful. And I’ve seen enough of them to argue that they can and often do lead to violent behaviors in men.
The problem is in socio-cultural education rather than in proper religion. But this education will not change or evolve as long as new principles are not tolerated by the one and only spiritual guide of Latin America: the Roman Catholic Church.
The Rules
These are the social life rules followed by the violent men I’ve met here:
Sex is prohibited before marriage and is meant for procreation only. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive (between spouses) purposes — says the Catholic Catechism.
Besides the conflict between that rule and the natural need for sexual pleasure is the irresponsible order to marry someone without knowing him/her sexually. Without considering the quality of that part of the relationship. What kind of advice is that? Frustrated men considering sex as prohibited first and compulsory but with a defined goal first and in a defined moment second is the reality of many here in Latin America. Frustration, hidden emotions and compulsory liars are on the way!
Frustration, hidden emotions and compulsory liars are on the way!
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I understand the romantic ideal of a life where desire is managed to be directed only to one partner for a lifetime. But times have changed the way sexuality is considered in everyday life. Being good or bad is not the problem. Ordering people in a reformed society to live according to teachings from an idealized one generates frustrations and anger. And, I’d argue, domestic violence.
Oh, and Young Men: Don’t even think about masturbation as a way to cope with your desires. That will diminish God’s good plans for you. After all:
“Masturbation is an offense against love, because it makes the excitement of sexual pleasure an end in itself and uncouples it from the holistic unfolding of love between a man and a woman,” says the Youcat (the social guide to a Catholic life, for young people).
Very young couples set up families due to those rules. Those unwanted, immature families begin dysfunctional relationships that can eventually become violent for the reasons mentioned above.
Contraception and abortion are not allowed. Legitimate intentions on the part of the spouses do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means (for example, direct sterilization or contraception). Those young couples have undesired babies condemned to a difficult life in a family far from what the Bible declares ideal. And in a cradle for emotional instability, anger and violence. And divorce is not an option!
Abortion is strictly prohibited in Costa Rica, for instance. As are triple tests during pregnancy to identify trisomy or down syndrome on foetuses. Same with medically assisted procreation. What is considered a fundamental right in many countries remains here completely prohibited.
Adultery is a federal crime in the United States of Jesus Christ, a Commandment all to itself. Once men have chosen their spouse because she’s Catholic and nice (and because they love her, as love is so much higher than desire, I know…), they’ll have sex with her only. And start ignoring their own desire for other persons. And be held to this rule for a lifetime. Frustration again. How many of them will be unfaithful and hide it? How might men act differently if they could make their own ethical choice on this issue rather than have it instilled into them as a rule? I don’t know, but it’s worth discussing.
As they learned how bad it is to commit adultery and as the community around them reinforces this they also develop a kind of pathologic jealousy.
Years go by in their marital life and the risk of committing adultery on their wives begins to grow. They know that. But they can’t cope with the possibility of that adultery going public — the mix of shame and loss of salvation they’ll endure. That jealousy, from what I’m learning of these men, leads many to build walls around their wives and control them so harshly that it often leads to violence. Surely there are other ways to remain faithful rather than to be beat over the head with a rule and publicly shamed for failing to comply?
We’re receiving 500 men a week at the Instituto WEM. They mostly come to receive emotional help during marital crisis. Without a proper statistic in hand, I can safely say that 9 out of 10 are unfaithful and extremely jealous.
A man (a fantastic man, I agree, a master…I am Catholic) wrote 2000 years ago:
“But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matthew 5:28).
Because of that very romantic sentence, millions of Latin American men today believe they are already daily adulterers — and they are so personally shamed that they can’t talk to anyone about it. This locked-in emotional frustration often leads to physical acts. And because many men already believe that their thoughts made them adulterers, how many simply take the next step and actually become a physical adulterer? After all, there are no levels, right? Thought and action both go against the Commandment in equal regards.
“The Catholic Church is nothing short of responsible for the suffering of millions of Latin American boys.”
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Gays are suffering a mental disorder. According to the Catechism, gays violate natural law, cannot bring forth life, and do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
It sounds like a joke.
For maintaining that rule in modern life, the Catholic Church is nothing short of responsible for the suffering of millions of Latin American boys. Who can choose between exile from their community, a life of lies in a dysfunctional heterosexual marriage, a hidden life and/or depression?
We know something we did not when the Bible was written: gays exist and there are a lot of them. Same as elsewhere in the animal kingdom. They are not sick. If Jesus and His friends who wrote the Book knew that, would they have decided for this teaching? Obviously not, considering the other tolerant and benevolent principles. Frustrated gay men living in heterosexual marriages in crisis are a surprisingly common issue in the people I’ve met.
Men are in charge, powerful and dominant. No doubt male domination is not a Catholic Church creation. But as described above, it is perpetuated by the spiritual guide who keeps the power to the man. Every symbol, all the canonical powers, every event linked to the Church shows us the enormous domination of males over essentially reproductive use of the women. Men have the voice, the power, the political clout. Alone.
Being strong, not crying, hiding emotions, fixing problems, leading families, those responsibilities loved by men that can experience the good side of oppression are leading to emotional crisis and legitimate domination. Both effects create another cradle for domestic violence in imbalanced families.
Don’t talk about intimate life, emotions and sex. All those teachings lead to a big silence. While sadness, fear or anger are growing in men’s souls, there’s culturally no space for confession and help.
Men are supposed to be strong and ignore sexuality and desire until they’re married. There’s nothing to talk about until then. After marriage, sex must be exclusive with their wives, and on reproductive purpose only. Divorce, masturbation and weaknesses are not issues. Still no need for discussion. Churches can claim they’re the place to confess, to look for help and salvation. Looking for emotional help considering those prohibitions is like being rescued by a stone while drowning.
Reform, Please!
Why is there no way to understand Holy Orders as a direction we should take, a moral indication of what is worse and better, instead of as a definitive rule? If this were the case we could adapt with society and more easily move towards equity and freedom.
Historical soccer rules were changed, adapted to the reality of the game. Without losing the original direction of it. Why is it that the Church’s bosses don’t decide to take the Bible as a, well, Bible, instead of as a Book of Strict Rules? I don’t know. What I know from my Central American experience is that sanctified marriage and medieval rules for sexuality certainly help give rise to violent men.
We could consider this of no importance, as every human is free to adopt the behavior he likes. But religious principles still are common rules in many countries. Where I live, God is in every moment of everyday lives. A lot of people are praying, reading the Bible in buses, and referring to God’s will to explain any situation or expectation. They are doing their best to lead their lives according to the Catechism. Boys and girls really work hard not to share intimacy before marriage, use contraception, abort or reveal homosexuality.
As long as the Catholic Church stays firm on social principles, the Latin American culture will continue growing with ancient rules paving the way for unhappy families.
—Photo Francesca Special K /Flickr
Hi Gregory
The pope ask Catholics about their meaning! Sorry, but I only have the news in German.
Vatikan fragt Katholiken nach ihre Meinung
Matthias Drobinski
Süddeutsche.de – Süddeutsche.de – Sun Nov 3 20:15:00 UTC 2013
Papst Franziskus will offenbar, dass die katholische Kirche offen und breit über ihr Verständnis von…
Wenn Sie Windows 8 haben, öffnen Sie diese Ansicht in News.
http://www.bing.com/r/19/aEWqP?a=1&m=de-de
I had a comment deleted but would it make a difference to the discussion if you knew that religious participation is INVERSELY correllated with domestic violence. Basically the more devout someone is the less likely they are to experience or perpetrate domestic violence. This effect is more strongly felt in minority populations- so basically a Latino who is a devout Catholic is even less likely to be violent than a less devout Latino in comparison with non-minorities.. Also, as I referenced earlier more devout Catholics also tend to report better and more frequent marital sex. than less devout people. I… Read more »
I don’t think your comment was ever deleted. That does not exclude any error of course. If so, I am sorry.
I answered your point of there. Was that the comment you mention ?
May I suggest you take it easy on the many people’s expectations around religion. How catholics are sexual athletes as never been the point. Outside your comments.
Gregory- read the abstract of this study http://vaw.sagepub.com/content/13/11/1094.refs
Research proves again and again that religious involvement is inversely related to domestic violence- this relationship is especially strong with minorities (like Latinos)
This is established science. I realize you believe earnestly in a positive relationship between religiousity and domestic violence. However, common and easily available research proves your premise incorrect.
If you want to reduce domestic violence in your target population- one way would be to encourage them to go to Mass and get involved with their church. At least research supports this.
Thank you CW, I did read the abstract and then the study itself yesterday. It is a fantastic work. I used that reading to comment our first exchanges up there. Starting with “You talk about what north american catholics think about their own sexual and marital happiness.” I am sorry that our conversation does not move on. But is there a way ? As I said yesterday, you swear religiousity reduces domestic violence in a world where going to Church is a choice. I explain that cultural cathechism provokes it in a world where it is an obligation. You do… Read more »
Hi Gregory I do not know much about life in Catholic Latin America. Even Protestant Countries have segments of , lets call them fundamentalists Christian. that teach Matthew 5:28 etc. Here is one theologian and sociologist that wrote about this in 1985, violence against women in Christian groups. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Lundgren What I do not understand is why men that believe in and follow strict rules for sex also are unfaithful to their wife. Is this examples of the Whore -Madonna complex in Latin America? Are wild animalistic sex seen as so sinful that married men see it is as impossible to… Read more »
@Iben— “That married men see it as impossible to have that kind of sex with their wife…and, therefore, turn to mistresses and prostitutes instead..?” Good question…I never really understood that either…I met the author of a book on Joe Kennedy, Sr. and he explained that the patrician of the Kennedy family would go sleep with his mistresses, including the Hollywood star, Gloria Swanson, then go to his favorite priest (of the church to which he contributed generous funds) and confess…then he felt cleansed and would go back to his wife and his gaggle of children….supposedly he was considered a “good… Read more »
One question Mr. Jaquet- are you Catholic?
How many Catholics do you know who don’t have premarital sex and use birth control????
Why don’t you go pedal your paranoia on your own corner?
Thank you for your comment. Yes I am. Or I consider myself as one.
I think the answer to your question is in the text above.
I did not know the expression “go pedal your paranoia on your own corner” but I definitely love it ! I hope you authorize me to use it. Constructive and polite. A real good man’s way of interacting.
I hope you’ll find on GMP all the advices you may look for.
I detest self-loathing catharsis
“Anger, frustration, jealousy, difficulty in regulating strong emotions, and the engrained idea that they have the right to control women….” Yup, yup…that describes to a tee someone I knew who grew up in a strict, traditional Catholic way (parochial schools and Jesuit college)….he also had no qualms with conducting relationships with women outside of his marital bond….and indulged in all kinds of illicit behavior under the cover of night…he was definitely a piece of work…and a right scary violent one when I think back…although he wore the day face of a nice suburban professional man with the nice family photos… Read more »
@ Leia …. “Anger, frustration, jealousy, difficulty in regulating strong emotions, and the engrained idea that they have the right to control women….” … Doesn’t describe any of the Catholics I know. I’m in my 50’s and have been active in my faith all of my life which equals personally knowing countless Catholics..
If Oscar Lewis (Children of Sanchez) is to be believed, the ideal of men being chaste before marriage was more observed in its absence. Agree with everything else.
Hi Hank,
Can you be a little bit more specific ? I am not sure I get what you mean.
Hi Gregory I would love to see a serious debate about this. It is too complicated for me, so I rest peacefully in voluntary celibacy right now. But I see your idea. You talk a about a married couple, that promise each other life long loyalty and love. To protect that lifelong union they decide to have an open marriage but only open for sex with other persons you know you will never fall in love with. Hmmmmmm? Then I have two questions : 1: what about the well being of the third part? Those we defines as persons ”… Read more »
Well, I think most of the answers to your questions are included in them.
I did not say the words you assume I am thinking. The way you describe it is not the way I feel/live it. I hope I am not the ugly person you describe (maybe I am ?). But I would love to discuss it.
Then, if it is, as you say a “love happening”. Would you consider that as an option for a living ? Is it a matter of definition ?
Hi Gregory I do not see you as a ugly person. To talk about taboo issues like this is important and your work with men is admirable. My last male companion was from South America, and it that relationship did not end well. We need to discuss sex in and outside relationships . But why not let marriage be marriage? You promise fidelity for life in the marriage ceremony . And lets call other kinds of non monogamous relationship something else. They are NOT marriage, but other types of relatiinships , often life long as well, but not built on… Read more »
Thank you Iben for that kind answer. I appreciate. I agree with everything you say in that comment and don’t see anything to add to this claim for mutual understanding. The main point I do discuss is the one about marriage. Actually about catholic sacrements, right. I can let marriage be marriage. And leave people who respect that way of life free to live it. I love marriages and married people. Because they are free. What I explained in this post is that here, in latin america. And maybe in other places in the world that I do not know… Read more »
Hi Gregory You write: ✺”If the catholic Church, realizing its huge responsibility, changed its way of understanding plans of God for men and accepted to consider old Rules as directions more than strict principles, lives may be saved. Many…….. But people forced to live under the threat of a denial of salvation they believe in because they are not what catholics think they should be is a serious problem.”✺ I agree with you. You probably don’t speak any of the Scandinavian languages , but look at the link below.. . http://www.verdidebatt.no/ The name means value debate ( verdidebatt). It is… Read more »
Hi Iben,
Thank you for that conversation I never had and that I like a lot. I’ll have a look at the site you’re mentioning.
And thank you for your last line that make my day !
So good for you – you found a scapegoat ☨,
though If this article would have been written about ✡ Jews ✡ it would be considered Antisemitism .
Hi Alaya, You mean religion as a scapegoat for domestic violence ? Don’t you think the facts make that scapegoat not far from guilty ? I’d like to read a piece to save it. Second, your point would make that piece anti-catholicism, then. Well I guess that is what I am, right. I would explain it with more details, talking about what I consider right and wrong about how catholicism is used or promoted and on the effects on social and sexual life. And how the same catholicism could be the fantastic inspiration for a sane and beautiful life if… Read more »
@ alaya … you said “though If this article would have been written about ✡ Jews ✡ it would be considered Antisemitism “.Yup. And to take this a step further, had he said similar things about Muslims, who share many of the same morals regarding sex outside for example, he would for sure be seen as a hater,if not worse.
Again. Then what ?
Here in this comments you make some claim somewhere to be a Catholic too, well i would not know about that. though this evil man that you talk about, some of them claim to be Catholic’s too dough it is obvious that the Sanctifying power of the Gospel has not Transformed there hearths and minds. One thing we do know, Judas claimed to be an Apostle too. and though he walked with Jesus ,the one Perfect teacher of the Gospel ,Messiah and God Him self has betrayed him when the time had come . only if we truly strive to… Read more »
There are a bunch of Catholics who participate here- I think all of us would tell you that Catholicism doesn’t turn ya into a wife beating monster. Studies indicate that (at least in the US), devout Catholics have more and better sex than other demographic groups. And yes, this goes for the husbands and wives.
Do the math on that Catholic couple down the street with the 8 kids over 16 years of marriage.
Hi CW, Thanks for sharing, I am happy to read that your are confident with the choices you’ve made. Even if I always tend to be very careful with what people claim not to be, I of course do not suspect any of the catholics from that bunch you’re mentioning to be monsters. Same with the fact that a lot of people (as you say “all of us”) share the same opinion. That does not mean this opinion is truth, right ! Plus, I don’t think that argument is really relevant with what is written in that article, is it… Read more »
A couple of points: 1. Regarding the study- statistically significant differences in both quality AND quantity of sex. These are measures of central tendancy. Great and frequent sex for married people is strongly linked to quality of marriage and is inversely related to domestic violence. ERGO- your proposed link between Catholicism and Domestic Violence is pretty much unsubstantiated. Basically I’d strongly suggest that its total and complete bunk. 2. The couple with 8 kids over 16 years of marriage. You don’t get it- people do not get pregnant every time they have sex. That couple with 8 kids over a… Read more »
CW, “complete bunk” is spot on. I knew if I waited long enough you’d step in and clear things up.
Dear CW, Thank you for that strong position written in respectable words. Let’s try to keep the gentleman tone if the debate goes on, will you ? (I am actually speaking merely for myself as I tend to use words I do not mean when the discussion warms up 😉 ) I think your points kind of confirm my position. The link between domestic violence and catholic principles explained up there and based on my experience here are not detailed in your comment and may then be considered as confirmed by you. Isn’t it ? “Unsubsantiated” and “bunk”, coming from… Read more »
Re-think that math on 8 kids over 16 years. you’re off by a factor of approximately 1000%. My point is simple: HIgh quality and quantity of maritial sex is correllated with both Catholic Devotion and the quality of a marriage for both participants. Therefore calling out Catholic devotion as a primary cause of domestic violence (associated with unhappy marriages) is quite probably specious. Regardless: The sex thing was just a fun way to explain some well grounded facts: 1. Religious involvement is correlated with reduced levels of domestic violence; (b) levels of domestic violence vary by race/ethnicity; 2. The effects… Read more »
You talk about what north american catholics think about their own sexual and marital happiness. To argue about how I explain that social rules inspired by catholic cathechism creates frustrated men that become violent. No matter how close it seems to be, it is away from my point. You want us all to be more serious and documented when we speak about religion. And you mention what ? The soviet union, your personal beliefs, an absurd study (the first one) and the example of a strange family. The way you are sure about the superiority of the sexual life and… Read more »
Gregory- well grounded facts: 1. Religious involvement is correlated with reduced levels of domestic violence & levels of domestic violence vary by race/ethnicity; 2. The effects of religious involvement on domestic violence vary by race/ethnicity; and religious involvement, specifically church attendance, protects against domestic violence, and this protective effect is stronger for African American men and women and for Hispanic men, groups that, for a variety of reasons, experience elevated risk for this type of violence. Source: http://vaw.sagepub.com/content/13/11/1094.refs Research proves again and again that religious involvement is inversely related to domestic violence- this relationship is especially strong with minorities (like… Read more »
Hi,
I replied to your comments on the second thread, in the last positions in comments, down there. I suggest if we keep commenting, we do it in that space.
So we won’t have to write everything twice ! Sorry for that “double comments” thing if it is my fault.
Holy Orders are exactly that: directions. The problem is that the missionaries sent into Latin America to tame the natives, and to keep the colonizing population just as tame, were given the power that was the custom in the middle ages, and kept it to this very day. The church in Europe lost that power as the Enlightenment and Protestantism came around. No such thing happened in Latin America, so medieval Catholicism reigns, short of the auto-da-fé. And that’s no good for anyone.
Very true.
And speaking about responsibility, I think that the church is responsible for that medieval lead in such a big region. All of the church. For accepting the way things are.
Hi Gregory
You ask:
✺ “How might men act differently if they could make their own ethical
choice on this issue rather than have it instilled into them as a rule? I don’t know, but it’s worth
discussing.”✺
I look forward to that discussion.
Well I guess we can consider it has been opened by your comment, Iben ! What will men do about adultery if it was not a sin ? My guess is that they would, as women would, consider that sexual attraction and love are two different things. Sometimes they go together, sometimes not. And couples will agree on that difference and leave each other have a personal life. Set some agreement on how that private life should be managed so it doesn’t hurt anyone’s freedom. And then be free to have the sexual life they want. They would be surprised.… Read more »