This week Dear John addresses age gaps in dating, conflicting political views in parenting, and a daughter being driven crazy by her divorced parents.
This article originally appeared at GoLocalProv.com.
Dear John,
I have become somewhat smitten with a woman I work with. We’re both unattached adults, so there’s nothing particularly complicated about our situation except for one thing: I am 54 and she is 29. My question is straightforward. How much of an age difference is too much? We get along great when we work together, and she’s leaving our company at the end of the month. It’s the prospect of not seeing her any more that has me thinking of asking her out.
Sincerely,
Older Man, or Just an Old Man?
Dear Older,
As anyone who has seen any of Woody Allen’s last few movies will attest, there is a point at which the age difference between an older man and a younger woman just makes you think, “Yuck!” I don’t know exactly what that age gap is, and I don’t think you’re there yet, but my gut says you’re skirting awfully close to it. In fact, I had to remind myself that next year your colleague will be 30 to make your proposal palatable.
It’s not that a relationship between a 54-year-old and a 29-year-old can’t work; it’s just that there are so many red flags. You don’t provide much background information, so I don’t know anything about your past relationships, if you chronically seek out women much younger than you, etc. If you decide to pursue this, good luck. And if it doesn’t work out, I’d make it a point to look for someone closer to a peer than a daughter.
Dear John,
My husband and I are basically at opposite ends of the political spectrum. With another political season starting up and our son being old enough to take an interest and ask us our opinions about different issues, how do we answer his questions honestly without leaving him confused or under the impression we don’t agree on many things, politically speaking at least?
Sincerely,
Opposites Attract
Dear Opposites,
I don’t think you have a problem. I think you have a fantastic opportunity.
Assuming you and your husband can talk about these issues respectfully together, discussing them with your son will teach him a number of very valuable lessons. That adults can disagree and still respect each other’s opinions. That people can take the same starting point and arrive at very different conclusions. That things in the real world are almost never black and white. And not least of all, that it’s important to take these questions seriously and look at them from every angle.
Will your son get the impression you don’t agree on many things? Of course! You don’t! So what? If a child knows his parents agree that they love each other, that makes up for virtually anything else they may disagree on.
Dear John,
My parents are divorced and they both do something that drives me crazy! When one of them is mad at the other (like most of the time) they will refer to each other as “your father” or “your mother” when talking to me. Like, “Did your father get in touch with you about next weekend?” It’s kind of hard to explain, but it makes me feel like they’re blaming me for the flaws of the other! Like I picked who my father and mother were! How can I not let this bother me so much? Talking to either of my parents about anything having to do with the other one usually backfires.
Sincerely,
Their Daughter
Dear Daughter,
It’s completely understandable that this bothers you. It’s a shame that after making you endure their divorce, your parents continue to involve you in their hostilities. It happens in a lot in families that are split up, and it’s wrong. It’s definitely not a situation you are in any way responsible for or deserve.
Despite not having much reason for optimism, I think your first step is to talk with them (separately, obviously). Don’t frame it as something having to do with the other parent, but something the parent you are talking to does that hurts your feelings. Show your mom and dad this letter if you think it might help or if you have a hard time raising the subject. All you can really say is that it’s hard enough to have divorced parents without getting caught in the middle of their squabbles.
If this doesn’t help, do you have another adult you can talk to who may be able to intervene? An aunt or uncle you’re close to? A guidance counselor at school, maybe?
I really hope you can make your parents aware of how this makes you feel and that they will promise to at least try not to do this. And remember that the breakup of your family is tremendously sad for your parents, and a lot of times adults who feel sad express their sadness by acting angry. It’s easier to feel mad than sad, I guess. Keeping this in mind may help if they refuse to leave you out of their arguments.
You might also enjoy: Dear John: Will His Old Man Be Hers Too?
Photo credit: Flickr / mrsdkrebs
About John Simpson, GoLocalProv.com
As a 50yr old man with a 28yr old partner, I’m not particular impressed by that response. Yes there are things to consider; social issues, cultural issues, response of friends and family. There’s some good advice that could be given, but a flip “You’re not as gross as Woody Allen” response really isn’t serving anyone; it’s a cop out.
Great advise on all. For the teen daughter, maybe refer to the other parent by their first name? (Just a suggestion.)
The age issue is always an interesting one. I know people can love other people of many different ages but I am personally turned off by men that seek significant age gaps between themselves and women they pursue to date. Being 31, and dating someone around 55 would mean dating someone my Mom’s age and I don’t really see how that would be benefical to me in the long run. Of coures, this doesn’t mean the woman he works with isn’t open to it. However, 29 and 54 is a huge age gap. My feeling is that within 10 years owuld make a man “older”, but going above that begins to really make things difficult and get into that “old” stage. I wish more men appreciated women their own age instead of pursuing younger women. I don’t like the amount of worth men place on younger women vs themselves as older men. It seems that these kind of men simply think they are “better” then women in general when they pursue women much younger themselves. My perception is a little biased on this score and I admit that. But I can’t shake that mentality. Men often reinforce cultural issues of women’s age vs their own in society where they let women know how important her age is to him.
On the other hand, fathers win primary custody 6% of the time to mothers 80% of the time.
I see this as partially (when the mother wishes it) the destruction of men’s roles as fathers. A study in Ireland found that 1/3rd of children of divorce lost permanent contact with their father within 5 years, much of this due to willful obstruction of his parenting time by the mother (and the enabling family courts).
I see this as the cultural (and legal) bias to deny men greater roles. Then of course when they are left with no other choice but to serially date (whether by choice or by force), this means that older men are going to have one less obstacle that women don’t: they will be seen as better catches because after years of ladder-climbing to provide for their families they will *not* have children (which makes them better candidates for younger women who don’t want step-children interfering with her new family she may want to start), and the man will have disposable cash.
This may be the one and only silver lining for men who have dismal parental rights in the USA.
Maybe if things were more fair in family court (instead of mothers winning primary custody 13 times as often) then things would be more fair in dating too for the near silver-crowd.
Bias begets bias begets bias. Let’s fight all of it.
Dear Mr. 54,
Judging by the opinions I hear from most others when discussing age differences like the one you’re asking about, it seems that if you date anyone less than 10 years younger than you (less than 44) you’ll have a high proportion of people looking at you and thinking “what a creep!” I know that may seem harsh, but it’s the truth, and you asked.
If you care about being seen as socially acceptable, a good rule of thumb is to make your acceptable age range go the same distance in both directions. That means that you should be chasing after women who are 69 as much as you chase after women who are 29. If you’re not interested in 69-year-olds, narrow your age range the same amount in both directions.
Attraction doesn’t work like that though, it’s not a linear + 10 or – 10 years of attraction, hence why 18 year olds can be attracted to 28 but not 8 year olds. For some people they’re most attracted to people in the 20-40 range, can easily find a 30 year old attractive when they are 50 but a 70 year old is a turn off. As people age the range of attractive mates can often drop for the “older than me” category whilst the range of attractive mates for the “younger than me” category can increase.
As for the creepy factor? I don’t find it creepy as long as they’re both adults and both understand what is going on. People can have a 20 year gap and be madly in love, I say good on em. We don’t have to date exactly our age, not everyone wants the same things in a mate and why should they?
Attraction, instinct, etc aren’t going to be politically correct. Forcing people to date within a range to me is stupid, why limit life like that? if a 29 year old wants a 50+ then good for them, hope it works out and they find love.
I would say that *you* think he is a creep, but I don’t know if that relates to all people (or even all women).
I think the breakdown would be:
women his age: he’s a creep/perv
women her age: what’s his secret to keeping her happy?
single men of any age: lucky duck
men of any age unhappy in their own relationships: he’s a creep/perv
lol
What would the breakdown be if it were a 54-year-old woman and a 29-year-old man?
Mostly the same, but reverse the genders in my comment above.
Women here age either single or happy in their relationships would be happy for her. Women her age unhappy in their relationships (or unable to find companionship) would be jealous but cloak their resentment in moral condemnation just as older unhappy men, and older women happy or unhappy do with older man/young woman pairs.
” high proportion of people looking at you and thinking “what a creep!”
I thought creepiness == boundary violation according to feminists. But this used of the word creep seems to be a way to criticize male sexual choices. Shouldn’t men have the right to choose?
Not to mention the young women? Apparently my body my choice disappears when women see younger women poaching men from their generation.
It’s understabable. By 50 many men have either made it or haven’t. They’re either confident productive individuals with talents and interests, or they work low-paid low-skill jobs with many dependents or are homeless, or in jail. I can definitely see why many women would be intensely jealous of younger women poaching this incredibly small quantity of men. I can also see why most women who were jealous would instead frame her smearing of two adults choices as moral indignation to deflect blame.
Ditto for older men who are unhappy in their own relationships or unhappy with their inability to secure the same or near equal companionship. Things like this really has a lot of peoples horns showing.
John:
“As anyone who has seen any of Woody Allen’s last few movies will attest, there is a point at which the age difference between an older man and a younger woman just makes you think, “Yuck!””
This is false. I have seen two of Woody Allen’s lat few movies and I am not an ageist intolerant prude. I find couples with a big age difference rather interesting than disgusting.
This whole first advice is useless, you are just giving the “older man” a judgement, he is very likely well aware of, and no advice.
When my father took up with a woman10 yrs younger than I am- he assured me that this was going to make him live forever. He married her, he died with me rolling him over so the hospice aide could shove a morphine suppository in his ass. A sad, embarrassed cuckold- she was out with ber ”
designer”A good son would have put a pillow over his face.
My father was as tall as she was, seated, because he was sitting on 6″ of wallet.
When I was 27, I briefly dated a guy who aas 49. The age difference was not as strange as the generational difference (Gen X vs. baby boomer). Eventually we broke up and he told me he needed someone closer to his own age because there were just too many things he could not relate too and visa versa. We ran into each other about a year later and his new girlfriend aas in her 40′s.
There seems to be this presumption that when a older m, younger f couple is seen the guy serially dates younger women.
I think it’s far more often an issue of chemistry, respect, and novelty. I think sometimes both people see the other person bringing much more to the table than lovers their own age, and that it’s usually a one-off thing.
Some interesting comments on the age difference, but I think they are missing a few things.
Yes, there’s a stereotype of the creepy guy chasing younger woman, but would the older man have submitted his question if that was his normal dating procedure? Clearly he’s concerned, and dismissing him as a “creepy guy” is really unfair to him and his partner. Making this decision *is* hard, and it’s going to impact both of them for the rest of their life. Some real advice would be helpful.
There’s also a double standard here. Nobody thinks Harrison Ford is a creepy guy, but his wife Callista Flockhart is 23 years younger than he is. So if you’re successful and good looking, the assumptions change.
There *is* a perception that as the woman gets older, even if the age difference is the same, it’s more appropriate. So there’s an assumption here about whether the woman has the experience to make her own choice. Similarly, I suspect that if Harrison Ford had married some unknown woman, rather than a successful actress, the perception might also be different. But we’re talking about someone who is 29. That’s not the age of someone who has no experience.
However, what I find most disturbing here is people saying, “I would never do it, so you are creepy to want to.” Obviously this choice isn’t for everyone, or it would be more common. But what about the *woman’s* agency in this? There’s an interesting set of cultural assumptions being expressed which I find rather disturbing. That a 29 year old woman doesn’t have enough experience and wisdom to decide who to marry. That a 54 year old man is somehow so powerful that he can persuade her to make the wrong decision. What do those assumptions say about our view of the power and agency of men and women in our culture?
P.S. To the person who worried about him being “old” in ten years. It’s a good thought, but in my relationship, and in some interviews I’ve seen with other couples with similar differences, it seems that it ends up being a far bigger concern for the man. Come back and ask me in ten years and I’ll tell you if it’s still true.
Has anyone commented on the litmus test- does John have any influence over her career?
And I think Harrison Ford & my Dad were creeps- Tony Randall a double creep for having a baby with a beard.
Ah yes….the real truth becomes important….for the weed grows back, unless the root is dug out. Problem is, the root is hidden…in the dark…under the dirt. (Double entendre intended.)
The other part many forget: There’s no deeper, intimate, and satisfying love, than making through, onto the other side of the mess of marriage, with the spouse of one’s youth, who is also the parent of your children. (And, it’s totally possible to get back to the hot hornies with that person, too.)
That way, everyone can share the joy of grandchildren together, without the ripple effect of mess…growing into bigger mess.
However, for many, it’s already too late….which doesn’t make what I said, any less true.
Truth heals. Even when it hurts. Therefore, truth heals….in the long run….if one can be brave enough to embrace it…..and wise enough to set priorties to others, instead of to oneself.
Thank you, J.A. Drew Diaz, for telling your story.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/480807_3370589072169_1565180378_n.jpg
Truth must be age appropriate, however.
Fiftyfour and twentynine, that’s a 25 year age difference. How about a 40 year old woman and a 65 year old man? Still a 25 year difference, and still technically old enough to be her father. Still creepy?
Actually, yes.
Age-gap is really not a problem for love. In fact, I have seen many age-gap people falling in love on agematching(dot)com. They can take good care of each other, share life experience and make complementary for each other.So you can also find your true love on agematching(dot)com.
This stuff doesn’t happen in a vacuum, quite often. If in some alternative universe I became a couple with one of my twenty something co-workers, I might find that I have more in common with her parents (who would be around my age) than her.
I also remember meeting my dad’s future ex-second wife, who was five older than my oldest sister, and could have been our superior and resentful older sibling.
Ick.
People in their forties nowadays have (God willing) a lot of health, life, spirit and earthly experience in them. Not hating here, but I would personally look towards somebody closer to my own age.