Tom Matlack knows why he started The Good Men Project. Now he’d like to know: Why are you here?
It is beginning to feel, at times, like The Good Men Project has a bit of the Occupy Movement in us in the sense that we all know this is important, but we each have a different reason why. And, as a result, our list of demands can easily come into direct conflict.
I had my own reasons for starting The Good Men Project. I have said many times it was purely selfish: I wanted an excuse to learn from inspiring men from completely different backgrounds what being a good man meant to them. And I have been rewarded a thousand times over, men of color, men in prison, men at war, women who became men, gay men, straight men, swingers. You name it, I have been moved and changed by the stories shared as part of our movement.
But the debate remains, and for good reason, what is the real mission of The Good Men Project?
I got two emails this week from well-known writers, both of whom did not want to leave comments and even share their words. I suppose that in a world where manhood is up for grabs, and the fear of reprisal is great, the truth is sometimes hard to say out in the open.
Nevertheless I am sharing them here in hopes that you will reflect on what it is that you value about what we are attempting here, what is right about our mission, and what you’d like to see more of.
I sometimes feel odd trying to go with the flow of contemporary masculinity. One must, to a certain extent. But I am a defector from what I see as a bankrupt ideology. I overdosed on the whole world of football and its thinly veiled celebration of war and its occult rapist ethics. It is not only at Penn State that it constitutes a cult.
Anyway, I value The Good Men Project for many reasons, not least of which is its willingness to try to meet men where they are and encourage us to ask questions and work out the answers provisionally in our lives. I call myself a feminist because the work of that second wave of feminists was crucial to me in coming to understand the structures of abusive power. But that word has been poisoned (even for young women!) and the earnest mens’ magazines that came out of that feminist revolution end up reaching only their faithful, preaching to the choir and all that. So thank you for your work, that’s really all I was trying to say.
And here is the second one:
I watched the GMP documentary again this evening and was reminded of how–and why–I was drawn to the GMP to begin with. It was because it was nice to hear real men’s stories from actual men, for a change, instead of from women, or shrinks, or talk show hosts, and how moving the documentary actually is–and why.
It just seems to me that if men want to hear what’s wrong with them, especially from women, there is an entire array of magazines and other venues for just that purpose. Sometimes, I think, men are actually OK just as they are, and the one thing they need to work on is the ability to tell and articulate their own stories about the challenges they face as men in their lives after a lifetime of being sneered at, in one way or another, or called ‘whiners’ for articulating them. From the first time a little boy falls down and is told not to cry, to learning how to endure pain and suppress his feelings as an adolescent, the message is “shut up and take it.” Taking it is one thing–shutting up is quite another.
I guess I just never really saw the GMP as a place where there would be a such regular dosage of chastisement for being male. I’m sure I’m not the only guy on the site that groans a little when he reads on the GMP how much work he has to do to “fix” himself, or who isn’t all that interested in constantly hearing about how incredibly well off men are because of their “privilege” (and I can tell you that the much-vaunted “male privilege” looks very different to someone who grew up as a skinny, feminine gay boy to whom “male privilege” was entirely withheld) either in articles or in the letters section–though it’s great that readers express their views so freely.
But as I’ve said before, I know exactly what the response would be if male readers of a site called “The Good Womyn’s Project” too to the letters section to explain to the women how they could “improve” themselves, or be “better women.”
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About Tom Matlack
I’m here because I am the mother of a beautiful 17 year old son that I unschool. He and his friends are not exposed to anti-male attitudes and male hatred of feminists or in our society. He is growing up feeling good about himself and cherished for who he is. I am here because I am the author of Instead of Medicating and Punishing and I am in the process of writing a second book, this one the focus is on Attachment Parenting boys and natural education for them. I am here because I am trying to find authentic voices of the pain men are facing. Unfortunately there still seems to be a great deal of male apologizing on here and catering to feminists as if placating the feminist need to believe women are victims and men are perpetrators. However, the articles do have some great points and expressions about some of the suffering men face. I just started going through the website- I hope there is a section on here for abused males, boys and men affected by sexual assault, physical assault, rape, domestic violence, psychological abuse and other forms of abuse by women and men.
I want to clarify that I meant in my comment above, “male hatred BY feminists” nor “of”. How I wrote it was unclear.
Ms. Couture – thank you for weighing in here. It is a breath of fresh air to hear a woman tell it like it is. Thank you!
Your book has incredibly positive reviews on Amazon. I am intrigued and may pick up a copy.
Please offer your comments here as often as possible. You can be an excellent female voice of reason, and your perspective is sorely needed.
Please know that not every man here is a feminist apologist or placater. For example, I try to provide facts, logic, and reason, in order to shed light on the realities facing boys (and men), in stark contrast to the blame/bash boys and men approach of the feminist movement.
Regarding your son, I come from a line of strong single parent women who respected and believed in men, including their sons – just as you do, never dismissing them or their concerns due to “male privilege” or any such.
By no coincidence, none of them were by any means feminists.
“gender feminists tend to see conventional masculinity as a pathology and the source of much of what is wrong in the world”
http://www.aei.org/docLib/20090108_ContemporaryFeminism.pdf
Does anybody else recognize that trend or is it just me? Is there something wrong with men having choices too? I’m like totally pro-choice, so I guess I’m the man in the middle.
Yours is an interesting situation. A woman trying to raise a boy on her own is at a severe disadvantage, and not just financially. Women literally do not “get” what it means to be male, any more than men “get” the female experience. So providing resources and examples to help him deal with his gender and its place in society is a special challenge without a father figure to draw on. I wish you the best of luck with this challenge!
Beyond that, I applaud your recognition that too often the message of feminism amounts to “men are bad,” and that your son deserves better than such a toxic influence. Men being vocally supportive of/subservient to feminism has, sadly, become almost a survival trait in our misandric, man-bashing society. You’ll even see some of it here, but thankfully at least it can be challenged and debated on this forum. On feminist sites that’s not even an option.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OdQGbVNa4
Years (ok decades) ago, there was a comic strip named “Bloom County” one of the features of which were the male characters periodically parking themselves on the men’s couch either for idle chatter or for something more intense. I think GMP is that couch for me where I can laugh at the outrageous, shed a tear when I need to, talk back when I want to, and occasionally offer up a bit of wisdom acquired over the last 58 years. GMP is a forum for all of us who are still figuring things out.
I’m beginning to think the “Good” part of the title is unfortunate, because anyone who points out pitfalls men are struggling with is heard to be saying men are “bad.” This leads to the observer being branded as a feminist, whether male or female, and once pigeon-holed, the pigeon-holer stops listening or trots out the familiar canned responses trying to belittle the observation.
I think this project was a great idea, but has lost the plot…sadly devolving into superficial bickering and bad manners based narrow-minded assumptions about others’ motives and what is politically correct.
I was drawn to the idea that a middle ground might be possible that would permit genuine debate and enlightenment, but frankly, I only rarely visit anymore. I wonder if people of various perspectives have simply stopped visiting because of the smug spin of many of the regulars.
On further reflection, I think that what I was trying to say is that the original GMP effort seemed to arise because Tom Matlack had pursued hot sex and other short-term highs to the point where he realized it cost him more than it was worth. Having learned a lot, he then wished to make possible a discussion of balance and the possibility (at least) of long-term commitment…not in a dogmatic or exclusionary way…but more as a tribal elder inviting other farsighted perceptions and related discussions..in hopes that he might help others avoid the pitfalls he had lived.
My impression (which I hope is mistaken) is that the Diversity Zealots have pretty much grabbed the microphone her, and are quick to shame, and mischaracterize the motives of, anyone who even suggests there’s something to be gained from seeking balance or lasting commitment. They also do their best to cajole the Editor into believing they represent the majority of readers here. Sadly, perhaps they already do.
If Matlack has any interest in steering for his original goal, he may want to adopt a new editorial policy. I could reflect, proportionately, the various elements of our society instead of over-representing a minority who are actively working to dilute Matlack’s vision. I realize that no precise division would be possible. But the alternative of allowing the most vocal to set the agenda has probably already vastly shifted the audience of this magazine away from Matlack’s intended target audience.
+1
For me, the Good Men Project is a venue for the thoughts, the experiences of Men and more broadly Masculinity – So it is about feminine-through-to-masculine men(nontrans and trans), and masculine women. Particularly, how definitions of masculinity and femininity impact, for good or ill, on them. Personally Id love to read more alot articles from trans men, masculine women and, feminine men. About their experiences of how the borders of masculinity and femininity impact, positively or negatively, on their lives
As with music I dont think the direction of the mission can be forced. It will emerge naturally, this new direction, this new mission, from the articles and comments syncopating off each other into an unconscious consensus between article and comment writers. An example of this is the current unspoken agreement, that feminist women article writers now unreservedly acknowledge in their articles that men too also face profound difficulties. This arose from the strength of the summer/autumn 2011 counterletters written in protest by men and women, to a number of articles by feminist women who thought they would get wild applause from readers. By writing how ‘badly’ women have it, because of men… on a Men’s site
I completely agree with you LW2 on all the points youve raised. The good thing is though, that male shaming male blaming articles and comments, are not silently accepted but are vigorously challenged.
While you were speaking of articles writers regardless of gender. On a related point, Ive seen men on other sites complain about the high number of articles written by feminist women on GMP. I dont mind that, as the benefit of having a high number of feminist women writers, is that their often feminist-women-focused articles fan quickly the flames of debate, as men and women rush in to correct points in the article. Illuminating errors in feminist perceptions, in feminist thinking to the undecided reader. Male shaming male blaming articles and comments, are vigorously challenged.
Ive always wanted to know if the GMP’s focus is on the articles, or in the letters in response to the articles? Is GMP article or comment driven?
Ill know youll say both however if the latter, I feel that sometimes the number of articles posted daily can overwhelm and not allow for discussion to develop. As an article can either be missed, or lost in the stampede towards the daily trending article/s.
For example, the posting of the 11 article “Our Sexual Vocabulary” series – all on the same day, and inaddition to other new articles. I felt that the articles would have had more replies if the series had been posted over 7 days.
In the year Ive been on GMP, GMP has broadened out from Tom’s original intention of an inspiring collection of mens stories, to being a debating forum between feminist and antifeminist (from equalatist like myself, through to mra) on the nature and severity, of the problems that feminine men and ‘The Masculinities’ face. [Masculine-sphered Men(nontrans and trans) and masculine-sphered women are what I call 'The Masculinities', we are part of the same family, we tend to cluster around the same behaviours and instincts.]
I found GMP through an antifeminist site piece discussing the site, and stayed here to help challenge the forces of female supremacy. It is a daily must read for me. Congrats to you both Tom and Lisa, For hosting a rare meeting place where feminist and antifeminist commenters are roughly equal in number. Where there are provocative articles. Where the discussion is as Lori correctly wrote, intellectually stimulating and of a fine order.
I’m here because one dark and stormy night years ago I got an email from guy named Larry Bean, a call for submissions for a new men’s website. As most writers will tell you, that’s all the bait we need to get interested. I happily posted a few pieces on the old blog and wasn’t sure where the whole thing was going, if anywhere.
Must admit that when the magazine premiered I was a bit taken aback by some of the content, specifically the gender-bending, same-sex attraction essays, and emphasis on the interface with feminist philosophy. As a writer whose bailiwick is mostly partisan conservative analysis of politics and culture–which the brain trust here has, in my opinion, wisely steered clear of–I was suddenly in the company of writers, thinkers, and readers who were coming from a place well outside my usual comfort zone.
I had never in my life picked up a traditional men’s magazine like GQ (?). Knowing now what I’ve learned from this site, I would have immediately pegged such content as metro-sexual narcissism.
So, I had nothing to compare GMPM to, and though I’m sure I qualify in many respects as an old-school patriarch, the folks who created and developed this enterprise, going all the way back to old Larry, have always given me a fair shot, have offered my ideas representation, and have broadened my grasp of the contemporary culture as it exists outside my usual orbit.
rayhaus,
I’m glad to at least see an aknowledgement that their are Good Men. After being bashed by various
feminists (almost into oblivian) it’s nice to know their are other men that have had similar negative
experiences at the hands of “most women”.
One topic I have yet to discover is the radical “change” in a woman when she has menopause.
Glad to have TGMP to read and learn from!
What “change” do you mean?
PMS lasts for years instead of just a week every month.
You can’t generalize about that. It is the opposite for me. Menopause = PMS TOTALLY GONE!!! Yay!!! Things could not be better. I know lots of women like this. Some struggle like you say–certainly not all.
Please stop generalizing.
Boy is this a slippery slope – there’s a good chance I’m going to fall off the cliff here. But that’s OK because I know there are plenty of men out there that are willing to throw me a lifeline. As a GENERALIZATION I can appreciate what Bad Man says. The trouble with generalizations is that they don’t give an accurate picture of specific instances in relationships. For example, one of my ex-wife’s favorite was “all men are jerks”. Well, to be honest there were plenty of times I was a jerk but more often than not I was trying very hard to be a loving supportive spouse.
As for PMSing: It has become the convenient excuse for any time a woman decides that something is wrong in the relationship and the man is to blame for it. It’s much more convenient for the man to blame hormonal imbalances than to think there might actually be something wrong with what he’s said or done. In my own experience, things seemed pretty normal and smooth as far as I was concerned them WHAM! all of a sudden I’m searching for my armor and sword. I’ve learned the hard way that I don’t dismiss my spouses GENUINE feelings just because I think she’s “on the rag”. Dismissing her feelings is the wrong approach. So is applying logic to the situation. The best approach I’ve found (because I really do love my spouse) is to turn off the TV, put down the book or stop whatever project I’m on and just listen. It helps to get clarifications. (Can you give me an example? Is it like…. HDTMYF- how does that make you feel?) MY SPOUSE is generally non-confrontational so she carries hurts and resentments for a long time before I’m blasted from out of the blue. Usually it’s a passing remark or a perceived slight that had I known at the time bothered her I would have quickly apologized for. But of course over time, that small stray unloving thought or deed has become this monstrous crisis in our relationship. I’m sure you guys can think of many examples. This gives the impression to many guys that PMS is not just limited to a couple days each month.
As far as menopause is concerned, IN MY RELATIONSHIP, I’m still working that one out. Empty nest syndrome, self worth, Adjusting to the fact that now we’re just the two of us… Guess what guys: relationships are work no matter what stage you’re in. If you’re not willing to work at it my advice is to stay single. My last piece of advice: Develop a good one-on-one with your local florist and keep plenty of all occasion cards on hand…
Steve, this makes a lot of sense. I know that it goes both ways too. When I used to have PMS (before menopause), it was sometimes the reason I was upset, and often times not–something real was upsetting. Likewise, my then-husband was often angry. He did not have a hormonal cycle, but I knew there were times for armor and times for flowers. That’s how relationships work. Just as I did not want to be “gaslighted” (Yashar Ali’s term) about being on the rag or having PMS, my husband did not want to be misandristly (not a real word!) characterized as always being angry. Relationships definitely are work, and of course it’s a choice whether you have on or not.
Steve, the fact that I’m a woman and a magnet for MRA criticism means you will probably be attacked simply because I supported you, and for that I’m sorry! I do appreciate your perspective on PMS, and wanted to tell you that. A lot of women are really sick of certain generalizations about it that are not true or miss other critical points, some of which you have identified here quite well. Also, there are quite a lot of lucky women who never experience PMS in their lives. It is unfair to them when men say they all have it and exaggerate it. No different than how wrong it is for women to say “all men are jerks.” That is CLEARLY untrue!
Lori, Understand that under the old mores of what it meant to be a man, anger was one of the very few emotions that was allowed expression (with all it’s destructive consequences). In actuality, if I felt angry, there was another feeling under the surface. (examples: I’m hurt; I’m being treated unfairly; I’m feeling unequal to the task at hand; I’m not being understood; I’m not being treated seriously; I’ve felt cheated etc. etc.) Forget about positive emotions – Those make you feel weak and by no means and under no circumstances do men cry! Sorry to all the guys out there that will criticize me for this, but I’ve decided to identify what I’m feeling and embrace what I feel. That’s how I know I’m alive. Yeah, I still get angry, but I can now identify what is behind that anger and channel that knowledge in a healthy direction.
So, Tom, you asked. Permission to speak freely, sir?
Strikes me that the title containing both the words “Good” and “Project” intimates that most men are, somehow, currently “Bad.” Otherwise, why would one be engaged in a “Project?” That viewpoint (that men are not “Good” as they are, but need to be made “Good”) also tends to be consistent with the viewpoint expressed by a certain professor from the left coast who writes for this ezine.
For sh*ts and giggles: should we be involved in a Better Men Project? Most of the women I’ve dealt with seem to be genuinely interested in men becoming Better.
Just change it to “what women want”
I just grew up poor and was expected to work to support myself and with expectation to get married. I’m not religious or feminigious. I paid my way for everything, including university, and I starved and struggled at times without special scholarships for whats between my legs. I did all that masculine stuff and traditional expectations. I worked real hard at school, work and at home. None of it matters and it’s not worth the trouble, because everything is my fault as a man. Feminists and conservatives have a lot in common in holding men responsible, while maintaining traditional feminine privilege.
Where is my male privilege card? If I’m going to be blamed for all the worlds problems and neglected, then give me privilege!
You need a clearer definition of “privilege.” Privilege is
1. Something feminists accuse ALL MEN of having, and
2. Something that only a tiny fraction of men ever get to take advantage of.
Great thought provoking dialogue today from this read. The only comment that seems to leap off my lips is “the guilty take the truth to be hard”. I was taught by my wife that a defensive person is usually guilty. I teach my boys that defensiveness in an indicator to look inward. If a man reads from GMP and becomes defensive or feels overly pressed to change then maybe they should take some humility and look inward. Equally, if a woman gets offended by a man’s attempt to express himself then they too must take a deeper look into the mirror. I believe that the world needs more humility and less criticism. Keep up the good work GMP.