Freeing Yourself From Myths About Male Sexuality

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Can women actually make the first move? Jerry Stocking takes a look at 3 sexual myths influencing our sexual relationships.

Whether you know it or not and whether you like or not, you are under the influence of hidden myths that restrict your sexual pleasure, and bringing attention to these will open a whole new world of sexual expression, sexual energy and ecstasy.

These hidden myths aren’t yours, they are cultural myths. They are imposed upon you by people you don’t know, by people you will never have sex with and by people who hold values and morality quite differently than yours.

Cultural influences aren’t avoidable. Every time you watch TV, go to the movies, read a book or newspaper or talk to anyone you receive doses of culture.

Cultural inhibitions are waiting in ambush, making sex more predictable, less personal and less fun. Sexuality is influenced about as much as anything else, by cultural inhibitions and beliefs, simply because most of us are not sexually comfortable, sexually happy, and sexually mature.

You may think that you are exempt from culture’s input, but that just makes you an easy mark. Or you may be paranoid about culture’s input, but that is simply a waste of time and energy.

If you are interested in reclaiming your sexuality, please read on as I reveal three common cultural sexual myths. Even if you are the most liberated cat on the block you still are still being influenced by these myths without even realizing. Let’s bring them into the light.

 Three Sexual Myths

 The three myths are:

Men want sex more than women do.

Men have to make the first move sexually or drive the sexual process.

And the oddest one of the three: Men think they just almost got laid.

Let’s explore, and debunk these three myths one at a time. And in the process, liberate you so that you can discover your own sexuality independent of culture’s bias.

I am not suggesting that these myths are true or untrue. I am saying that they are believed by enough people that they influence you and me. Culture uses these myths to generalize and impose mass thinking on all of us. Bringing the myths to your attention can free you from most of their influence, making you sexually independent and making your sexuality your own. Reclaiming your sexuality is a good thing in a culture where sex is more marketing and taboo than it is fun and fruitful.

Myth 1: Men Want Sex More than Women Do

Culture says that men think about sex all the time, and the stereotype played out on TV or in movies is that the guy wants sex all the time and the woman doesn’t. Along with this common myth comes the idea that the man is continually demanding sex and the woman is the reason sex doesn’t happen more often.

This is a sad myth which results in a lot of frustration. It also demands that men and women play the roles that are expected of them and never really feel their way into what they want personally.

While I can certainly identify with this myth, and while it seems to be true, let’s look more deeply at it. But let’s not look at its truth; let’s explore what the world might be like if its opposite were true. Imagine, for a few moments, that women want sex more than men do.

Not only is that true in my current relationship, but it is also the case at many moments in the act of having sex. Women, it seems, derive much deeper and more bountiful pleasure from sex than men do. They feel more, they express more and they open more fully. The complaint I hear most often from women in workshops isn’t that they don’t want to have sex, but that men aren’t sensitive to what women need.

Oddly, in our culture, men drive the sexual dance by being the one who has to ask the woman out, has to make the first sexual move and is the one who wants sex. This puts women on the defensive and it has men be in charge of sex. But they aren’t really the sexual driving force. Putting them in charge, given the nature of male orgasm and female sensuality, is a terrible mistake.

The myth of male availability and female reluctance has the less sexually able male lead the way, when the much more sexually open and pleasure enhancing female ought to be driving the game. Which leads us to myth number two.

Myth 2: Men Have to Make the First Move Sexually or Drive the Sexual Process

If you want to continually risk rejection, be frustrated, scared and seeking something you may not even want (sex), then be a man. You will quickly discover that it isn’t much fun.

Men are tired of having to approach women. Whether it is someone new in a coffee shop or a spouse of thirty years, the guy has to make the first move. Women aren’t allowed to propose sex, or even ask for a date.

Women who do those sorts of things are considered to be aggressive or worse. I am not suggesting that this never happens, but women making advances isn’t common.

 A friend of mine and I were walking down the street in London. Two rather attractive women approached us, speaking to us first and expressing interest in us.

Like us, you probably imagine that they were prostitutes, because women just don’t approach men very often. And even with couples married for a long time, the first step is often left up to the fella.

Myth one and two support each other. And if you consider either one of them as true then your sexuality and behavior will be dictated by cultural myths. You will be less free sexually than you might be.

I am not asking you to change your behavior, nor am I asking that women take the lead. What is needed is the discovery that the way things are is often based on cultural directives. Noticing how things are is the most powerful first step to them changing for the better. Shedding the light of attention on these myths reduces their influence and frees you to express yourself.

Myth 3: Men Think They Just Almost Got Laid

This myth is a bit more invisible than the first two. Even men who believe it often don’t notice it, mostly because they are so used to it.

Imagine this, guys: You walk into the library and there is an attractive woman behind the counter. You check out books or get a library card and you dare to “connect” with the librarian by chatting a bit about something other than books.

Ladies and gentlemen, believe it or not, in this scenario, the guy might think that he just almost had sex. He thinks that he not only could have her but that he almost did. That isn’t, of course, how the librarian probably views it. She is just doing her job.

But, if you, the spouse, are waiting in the car and he returns a little sheepish or bold it might be because he thinks he just almost got laid.

The result of guys thinking they almost got laid is a frustrated preoccupation with sex. When a guy almost gets laid, he thinks about sex. Thinking about sex isn’t the same as sex, it is just more thinking.

Notice, guys, how often you get laid and how often you think you almost got laid. The math of these two, if you will pardon the expression, is out of whack.

Guys, relax; notice your sexual energy. Stop directing it toward librarians, random women in the grocery store, life guards and women on TV. Really. Keeping and then flowing sexual energy within will have you be happier, healthier and more satisfied. It will also make it more likely that you can satisfy the women in your life.

♦◊♦

 More Myths

 

 Just discovering these myths is enough to free up your sexual energy.

 It will relieve sexual inhibitions and lighten you up. It will also have you discover a whole messy nest of other cultural imperatives and myths that aren’t true but are blocking you from free expression and the experience of sexuality.

Examining these myths with attention and with levity will allow you to regain your own sexual will power and energy.

There are lots of other cultural myths about sex. We are one frustrated culture and are continually minting new myths to contain sexual expression.

Other myths that are probably influencing your sexual expression include ideas such as these:

  • Orgasms are hard to come by, when they are actually difficult to avoid.
  • Ejaculation and orgasm need to come together for a man, when men can actually orgasm many times and even ejaculate a few too.
  • Sexual energy is located  only at specific places in your body, when it is, in fact, in every nook and cell and cranny of this sexy planet.

Please feel free to share the sexual myths you have discovered by commenting below. If you want me to address and undress more myths please let me know and I will be glad to do so.

Remember that cultural sexual myths aren’t true, but what they do to you is real. Focusing attention on them can set your sexual expression free and result in more and better sex.

Image Credit: je@n/Flickr 

Jerry Stocking  is a spirituality author who has been helping people eliminate fear, worry and stress from their lives. Doing so provides relief, presence, bliss and prosperity where there had been fear. Visit his blog, Lightening Up and Letting go at www.jerrystocking.com/blog and discover everything you need to jump head first out of fear and into the present.

 

 

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Comments

  1. PursuitAce says:

    Myth 4: Having a serious committed relationship is the single most masculine defining event of your lifetime.
    This might be true for some, but absolutely untrue for me. I’m pretty good at friendship, and a complete disaster at relationships. I’m responsible for my decisions, but having the expectation to find the one, settle down and live happily ever after is completely ridiculous in my case. I wish I could have thunk out of the box a little more and broken away from the traditional. A lot of people would be living much happier lives now if that had occurred. If this is you than just don’t. There are always options to someone else’s recipes for your happiness.

    • Thank you for Myth #4.
      Imagine all the folks out there who bought into myth #4 and are not in relationship and not having a bit of fun! Thankful you aren’t them.
      Isn’t it interesting when a myth doesn’t pull you in and others seek to “help” you into their mythical world?
      I find that the single most masculine defining event just might vary from moment to moment. If only formulas worked, we would all be the same.
      Thanks for your comments and myth busting.
      Jerry

  2. The first two myths are legit, but the third one is pure poppycock. I’ve met a ton of guys in my life, and very few would look at the third scenario and think “I almost got laid.” Almost got laid is a BJ or a handjob somewhere private, or maybe a girl who came over to your place, got in bed with you, but for whatever reason wouldn’t go all the way.

    • Why everything about sex for American straight males revolve around the penis? I mean “Almost got laid is a BJ or a handjob somewhere private(…)”… I read that all the time. Why never oral sex on the female, kisses all around the body or anything else?
      Actually, do American males in fact reciprocate oral sex, or at least believe females need/want genital stimulation other than that from penetration? I read a lot of females saying most males don’t, that in most relationships the males always receive more than give (when he gives) and now that I notice, when it comes to males, they in fact also only mention their beloved BJ lol. Really, ask any male about his notion of foreplay, he mostly will reply: oral sex ON HIM. When asking women, they reply mostly: oral sex (meaning giving and receiving). I know American males really rank low in all the “best male lovers” rankings, but I still would belive ethey weren’t that selfish and even worse: phallocentric. A Country that uses “c*cksucker” as an offense…
      I am sorry for the straight females if that is what is going on in America.

  3. Sorry for the poppycock. Seems that all that poundage of guys in your life may have been luckier than the people I know who don’t get as close as you report but think they did. Maybe this myth applies more to me than the men you know. Would very much like to hear other input on this. I am open to the possibility that I have over generalized on that one. I hope I have.

    Thanks for your comments,
    Jerry

    • No worries. I enjoyed the article, and would love nothing more than to see the first two myths die out completely. I think it would lead to a lot more relational happiness for all of us.

      The final three myths you mentioned are certainly worthy of further discussion (but hey, i guess that’s what your blog is for). Vanishingly few men and no woman that I’ve ever met know these to be myths. I was fortunate to stumble upon some great resources early in life and its made a world of difference for me personally. Hope more men will be inclined to do so as well after reading this.

    • Joanna Schroeder says:

      My take on the third myth is that you two are having a disagreement more about what “almost got laid” means rather than the experience he’s referring to.

      Jerry, I believe, is being hyperbolic about the feeling of “she wanted me” as opposed to the actual sexual activity that was going on.

      Certainly it doesn’t apply to all men, my own husband is soooooo clueless when women hit on him. But it wasn’t always that way, I assume. He was a major, major ladies man in his 20s and early 30s.

      • FlyingKal says:

        Joanna, I’ve never heard about myth#3 before either. And I don’t think I’ve ever in my 40+ years seen or heard anyone of my friends acting “wishfully” like that.

      • wellokaythen says:

        “Certainly it doesn’t apply to all men, my own husband is soooooo clueless when women hit on him. But it wasn’t always that way, I assume. He was a major, major ladies man in his 20s and early 30s.”

        I swear I’m not trying to cause trouble here (not this time!), but these sentences seem a little hard to reconcile with each other. It doesn’t seem likely that someone would be a major ladies man AND be clueless about women’s interest. Did he have that ability and then lose it? Did he totally lose confidence in his attractiveness?

        I respectfully suggest, as a total outsider, that he may be acting clueless on your behalf. That’s even more to his credit than being actually clueless.

  4. I am not suggesting that these myths are true or untrue.

    By picking the word “myth”, it suggests untruth. Otherwise they’re just “beliefs”.

    Regarding Myth #1, that men want sex more than women do, I’ve seen that called untrue many, many times, but never with any convincing argument. The closest anyone comes are some anecdotes of relationships where the woman has a higher libido than her male partner, and I accept those as authentic, but nowhere close to a 50/50 split that would make it seem that in general, women want it just as much.

    Furthermore, I can’t remember anyone calling it a myth ever separating out the difference between “want sex more” as a qualitative description, vs. a quantitative description. If you’re talking about the quality of the wanting, as in how strongly a horny person craves sex, then I wouldn’t bother trying to argue that a horny man “wants it more” than a horny woman. When it comes to quantity, though, I think it’s absurd to claim that women in general, over the course of a lifetime, tend to want sex as frequently as men. Over limited periods, those desires may be similar, but consider the many familiar factors which may reduce or eliminate a woman’s libido while a man’s libido is likely to just keep on going: pregnancy, having small children, minor illness, headaches, stress, sorrow, PMS, anger, a dirty house, etc. I’m not saying these are unreasonable or stupid reasons to want less sex, but if one gender can become less horny much easier than the other, I think it’s fair to describe the latter as “wanting it more”, at least in quantitative terms.

    • KC Krupp says:

      I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that the definition of myth is “a story central to a culture’s historical narrative.” While most myths are certainly not true, there is no reason that a myth has to be false. Many of the stories surround the American forefathers fall into the category of myths, even though a great many of them are true and a great many are false, or more often exaggerations of the truth. Technically the story of Christ, whether true or not, is a myth; it is a collection of stories that make up the core cultural perception or identity of Christians and attempts to explain the way of the world.

      • Here’s Dictionary.com’s definition of myth:

        noun
        1. a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.
        2. stories or matter of this kind: realm of myth.
        3. any invented story, idea, or concept: His account of the event is pure myth.
        4. an imaginary or fictitious thing or person.
        5. an unproved or false collective belief that is used to justify a social institution.

        The definition you’re giving, KC, is not only accurate, but consistent with the first one listed above, which adds a little weight to it being the primary meaning. However, the title of the piece is, “Freeing yourself from myths about Male Sexuality”, and the subsequent analysis of said myths sounnds more like it’s using definition #5, where it’s understood to mean false collective beliefs, not some historical narrative. If I tell you I’m going to free your mind from myths, that’s a pretty unambiguous statement about how true I think those myths are, because it would be rather silly to want to free your mind of truths, no? There’s nothing wrong with discussing some beliefs that you think may or may not be true, but that’s not the treatment they got here, despite claims to the contrary.

        • wellokaythen says:

          I usually use the word “myth” in the sense of #5. It’s a story that’s told and retold primarily because it has some sort of social function or some sort of moral lesson, but it’s told independently of its accuracy. It’s a story that is treated as true even though no one really bothers to check its accuracy. The truth of it is assumed and never really tested. People treat the story as true because the story does something for them, and its utility has no connection to how true the story really is. How true or false a myth is has no real bearing on how much people like it.

          So, a “myth” in this sense could actually have a lot of truth to it. Theoretically, it could even be mostly true, because it’s possible to arrive at the truth by accident. Even if it’s mostly false, there’s usually just enough slivers of some sort of evidence on some level that people feel satisfied they don’t have to think any more deeply about it: “My first husband was exactly like that. See? I know exactly what men are like.”

          This means that you can’t say something is “not a myth” just because you find some bits of truth to it. Whether it’s a myth or not depends on how much the truth really matters, and how good the evidence really is.

          Meanwhile, despite the popularity of the cliché, not every myth has a kernel of truth to it. A myth may be entirely made up. A myth could be a total fantasy.

    • Well said. Glad you jumped on this.

  5. Yikes Marcus you think a lot. I love thinking. But thinking begets thinking. It also begets complexity and inhibits action. A little sex in the hand is worth billions of thoughts in the bush.

    I read your comment and am not sure what you said. I am not sure whether to read it again or go to bed. I have been up early, for two hours, and it is now 5:45, writing about Unconditional Sex, which puts me in quite a mood to read what you have written.

    I have been writing about the fun that shows up and how couples are tested when one person is ready for sex and the other is not. If you are both ready or not ready there is no opposition. But when one of you wants it and the other doesn’t a higher dance is called for: the dance of possibility.

    It seems to me that in the land of possibility relationship flourishes: always. In the land of certainty it suffocates under the pressure of conditions. Possibility, in my world, means sales. I define sales as being the possibility in which possibilities show up. If either you or your partner regularly perceive more possibilities than the other, which is likely, then quality of sex will suffer first, quantity of sex will suffer second and relationship resignation will usually come along to save the day by breaking up the relationship or forcing it to a level superficial enough to be not worth having.

    You make me wish my new book was ready for press, because I would love to have you read it now. Alas, it isn’t done so I will, in usual form, enjoy writing it and consider what you have posted as a contribution to the new book, the power of thinking and another voice committed to rampant sexual satisfaction.

    Until my book is on sexuality is ready you might want to read my book about thinking. It is called The Mind Relief Manuscript and you can find it on the web for free.

    Thanks, Jerry

    • Here’s what I picture on your whiteboard:

      It seems to me that in the land of possibility relationship flourishes: always. In the land of certainty it suffocates under the pressure of conditions. Possibility, in my world, means sales. I define sales as being the possibility in which possibilities show up.

      ???

      Profit.

      • I wonder, Marcus, if you have seen the movie From the Hip. I recommend it. It is an older movie and well worth the fun. They psychological play between characters is quite well done.
        Early in the movie there is a scene that centers around the admissibility of the word “ass” in the courtroom. “No other word exactly captures the nature of your client.” The scene is a set-up, which, it seems is the point: knowing the outcome before you even begin.
        The movie offers levity, intelligence and perhaps a little hope too.

        • That and “A Few Good Men” were two of the best courtroom movies of my generation. It was like seeing the Breakfast Club grow up. Since we’re sharing movie recommendations now, have you seen the movie, “Little Miss Sunshine”? [Spoilers coming up.] Lots of good characters in that one, from the surly teenager who’s only joy in life is his dream of becoming a fighter pilot (until he discovers he’s color blind), to the Alan Arkin grandpa who choreographs a highly inappropriate routine for his granddaughter to perform in the Sunshine pageant. I think my favorite tragic comic character is the dad played by Greg Kinnear, who’s struggling to hold himself and his family together, while his mission to become a motivational speaker a la Tony Robbins is failing to launch.

          Therefore, my argument is stronger.

          • Thanks for the movie suggestion Marcus. Have seen Little Miss Sunshine. Liked it at the time but it didn’t stick as a favorite. Perhaps not enough character development for me. I swoon for the people being quite different at the end of the movie than they were at the beginning. Need the same in relationship and sex and just about everywhere.
            Seems you probably know your movies so I will suggest something a little more obscure. Have you seen House of D?
            That one did stick with me and I will see it a gain. And I am wonderfully involved with a woman named Melissa, which happened after I saw the movie but makes me want to see it again just for the dance scene. I melt at the least drop of innocence. Guess I melt and swoon a lot.
            Again, thanks for the suggestion.

  6. Both ends of myth #1, that men want it more and that women are inherently more sexual are pretty sorry ways to live. I think it’s BS that women are more sexually open, able or etc… I reject the assertion that men can’t drive the sexual process. I sense that you’re getting at the idea that men make a bee-line for orgasm (namely their own). I think that’s as unfair a generalization as the one that precedes it: that men always want more sex.

    It may certainly be true in some men and couples. I suppose it’s true if you decide to tally orgasms and see the woman has more. But, the opposite is just as true if you decide to count up the number of times men think of sex during the day, or the number of times men ask for it and are turned down, vs the number of times the woman in that couple asks and is rejected.

    But what is most insulting about this counter myth, I think is the idea that male sexuality is some how deficient or less than that of a woman. Or simpler, or that it has less potential, or that male sexuality is easier to master… that it’s easier to please a guy than a girl. Though sometimes it is. And sometimes it isn’t. How many men consider learning to give women multiple orgasms? And how many women try to learn to return that favor?

    I wonder how many men reading this site feel like they can show up in bed naked and feel like they’ve held up their end of the sexual encounter? I very often get the sense from my wife… I’m here, I’m naked, I’m willing… what more do you want from me? Well, a lot more, actually. And I don’t mean emotional intimacy. I want a truly active, enthusiastic, vibrant, kinky, up-for-anything kind of lover. Who wants to go for hours. Instead, I’ve got a lover, who think feels entitled in this way to a simple male sexuality. She ought to be able to make me orgasm quickly and easily and without much effort. I should be ok with her minimal effort, because… hey I’m a guy and I’ll take whatever I can get.

    • I really appreciate your comments.

      I would like to clarify one point: I am never suggesting that anything I say is true. I don’t have the bandwidth to know the truth and couldn’t likely be trusted with it if I did. I often find people who claim to know the truth to be quite stuck without knowing they are. I am much more interested in what works than in what is true.

      I have noticed that the truth doesn’t set you free, it oppresses those who have it, and the little bugger keeps changing.

      Won’t it be something when just showing up in bed starts an equal frolic that never ends? It seems that you are suggesting that men experience having to perform and that has certainly been the case with me until recently. I have been hell bent on satisfying my partner missing the now obvious link between my pleasure and hers. When they rise together they raise all boats.

      Seems to me that it is a matrix we are dancing with between partners that looks a bit like this:

      His Yang Her Yang
      His Yin Her Yin

      While relating is more complex than connections between these two camps much of what isn’t satisfying about sex can be traced to an internal battle between yin and yang. It is often easier to look at your partner than yourself as the feminine and masculine dance out their age old feud within.

      As yin and yang balance within commonality between the two reveals itself to be greater than the difference. Getting stuck in either role isn’t rewarding enough to result in liberating sex.

      Again, thanks for your comments.

    • A guy — Have you talked to her about what you want? I think I am a (moderately) kinky, up for anything lover, yet my boyfriend never makes ANY suggestions about doing anything different or more exciting. Is that my fault? Am I just “showing up?” I assume if he wanted anything different, he’d say something. He seems perfectly happy if all I do is take my clothes off and come to bed. I think this is a common experience for women, and maybe it makes us lazy, I don’t know.

      • @Sarah…

        Your point(s) are valid. Most men (in LTR & marriage) simply do not know these things. They, unlike that 15%-20% of men, are too inexperienced to know.

        What I have discovered since my divorce is women like erotica. Women like variety and different types of sexual experiences. Yesterday, my girlfriend (with my encouragement) pretended to be my personal stripper. I sat back while she danced and had $300 in cash and place them in her garter band. This was very sexually arousing and stimulating for both of us. It was just something new to try and we both loved it…

        So, in my view it is a lack of knowledge and experience. Therefore, women need to speak up on what they want during sex and out of sex. Men can go to Ruth Chris and order the same steak (T Bone) for years. Women want to try Italian, Japanese, Indian, and other varieties of cuisine. They like to try different steakhouses. They want to go to different restaurants. Women are the more curious gender. They are willing to explore more.

        The same goes for sex.

        JMO

        • JMO,

          I am in total agreement with everything you wrote, except for one thing I mention below.

          Someone could accuse you of sweeping generalizations with regard to women and erotica, variety, and arousal. But I agree with all of it. I also have had a divorce and have learned things about myself and women that are life changing – not just eye opening. This is one reason I started coaching men – to help my fellow men before or after a divorce.

          Where we part ways (maybe not?) is that I have learned that it is normal, possibly “natural”, for women to require a man’s “encouragement” (as you did) aka. leadership, initiation. If a man wants to get into the 15%, he must learn a new skill. That skill is becoming comfortable, confident, and happy as an “encourager” in both emotional and physical intimacy. At the end I address the power of a woman who ALSO chooses to learn this skill. But that’s a whole new article/book.

          My sweeping generalization is that we should not expect women to always “speak up” about what they want in all cases. We can learn some basic truths/skills about their hidden desires and be the man who is more than willing to give her what she needs…how and when she needs it. You have already discovered that they can enjoy being “led” there and will be more than happy to reciprocate after WE step up. I have found the same to be true.

          I failed to do that at many turns in my marriage and can look back over 30 years and see many of those times clearly. Emotional and physical intimacy suffered because of it. Sure she had baggage and could have tried harder. She needed more from me and I missed all the cues and instead chose resentment as my immature reaction.

          Possibly like you, I’ve become a student of fixing my own limiting baggage, learning more about the unique emotional and intimate needs of women, and making changes to give them what they need within MY set of values. No butt-kissing allowed. ;^)

          I believe the notion of “soul mates” becomes possible ONLY when two people are BOTH willing to accept responsibility for THEIR “encourager” role in learning how to meet and SUPPORT the needs of the other including intellectual, emotional, physical, and spiritual intimacy. This responsibility includes to willingness to ACCEPT each others’ leadership/encouragement with the love it is given.

          It takes two special people who haven’t given up on their own desire to learn and grow – first for themselves and secondly for their relationship.

          • Steve,

            Thanks. We can agree.

            While more women need to “speak up”, I am not obliviuous to the fact that many men might view this as threatening to their manhood….As Sarah mentioned, really the whole of history has been for men to suppress female sexuality. I think it is because maybe men know it is very powerful and potent.

            My Jewish friend told me that one of the reasons for matrilineal descent in Judaism is because there was a period when Jewish women were so “loose” that men often did not know if they were the fathers. Many Jewish women had non-Jewish lovers….So, now if the mother is Jewish, all offspring is assumed Jewish regardless of the father.

      • FlyingKal says:

        @Sarah:
        “A guy — Have you talked to her about what you want? I think I am a (moderately) kinky, up for anything lover, yet my boyfriend never makes ANY suggestions about doing anything different or more exciting. Is that my fault? ”

        My Ex-GF had a very limited comfort zone, absolutely refusing to do anything out of the most ordinary, or even out of the bedroom. The most “advanced” I ever got her into was *receiving” oral sxe…
        Using massage oil? Nah, too messy.
        Start out in the shower or bathtub? No, I don’t want to have my hair wet in the bed.
        Do it on the kitchen counter, or anywhere else in the house, or even outside? Just… why…??
        How about you give me some oral? What, people actually do that, take that ‘thing* in their mouth?!
        Trim down your hair a little bit, easier access for me to give you oral? Absolutely not!
        Using some kind of toys? What are you, a filthy pervert?!?

        Yet, she always asked after we were done (or rather, after I was done stroking, licking and caressing her) “Why don’t we do this more often…?” !

  7. Hi Jerry

    Myth 4: children are not sexual.
    ( They are highly sexual. That is why they need our protection more than ever.)

    Myth 5: persons stop being sexual at a certain age.

    Myth 6: women only want to shag bastards.

    And then one comment. You write:”men are tired of having to approach women”.

    Then why do they pick up women,have sex and leave? If they are so tired of approaching women why not stay with the one you seduced instead of running around to seduce another one and another one?

    • Its a great question and there are plenty of answers. I think most of them do stay sooner or later and for longer or shorter.

      Seems to me their is a basic philosophical glitch that has people want what they haven’t got and not, for long, appreciate what they have. I am not suggesting this is always the case but it is certainly so uncomfortably often. I am suggesting that discovering the myths we consider true or even what we call fact results in exactly where we are. If the myths and facts change we get to move around in the vast expanse of what is possible for us.

      I find interesting that your myth 4 and 5 have to do the young and old. Just never considered drawing that particular set of distinctions.

      Thanks, Me

    • FlyingKal says:

      “Then why do they pick up women,have sex and leave? If they are so tired of approaching women why not stay with the one you seduced instead of running around to seduce another one and another one?”

      Because the interest that woman have in having sex with him likely will start to fade away, probably sooner than later.

      (You’re not really serious, right?)

      • Are you serious FlyingKal? You do not mean that.

        I understand the men that get tired of rejection.
        Some of these men would succeed better if they stopped trying so hard,and simply relaxed and enjoyed life or focus on something else.
        The video posted on GMP erlier called “mating in captivity” is good and tells something about that.

        • FlyingKal says:

          Iben,
          I asked if you were serious, now you’r asking me the same thing. I really don’t know what to make of it…

          But seriously. I think there are, in reference to your question, more or less two groups of men:
          Those who are successful in, and actually enjoy the process of approaching women.
          And those who are less, or not at all successful.
          (Of course there are several subgroups, including those who don’t approach women at all, or don’t have an interest in doing so.)

          Naturally, a man in the first group would be more inclined to up and leave a women he has just met, and less tired about doing so, then a man in the second group.
          I think you are just conflating all kinds of men into a common group.
          But that’s just me speculating, what do I know…

          • Hi FlyingKal

            You are right. There are at least two categories of men.
            But you see, one category men are so active in approaching women that we women see more of them even if they only constitute a small percent of the male population..

            Until I found this website I did not know that some men felt invisible, I did not know that so many men felt unattractive,I did not know that some men never find anyone for romance and love.

            Women also grow up with myths about men and we often focus on how to spot those to avoid and fear ,instead of learning how to spot the good men and then approach them or be open for friendship with them.

            • @Iben….

              “Women also grow up with myths about men and we often focus on how to spot those to avoid and fear ,instead of learning how to spot the good men and then approach them or be open for friendship with them.”

              What’s ironic is women seem to be MORE attracted to the men other women are dating.

              It is my belief that women find only a few men attractive. As you stated, “we women see more of them even if they only constitute a small percent of the male population.” Precisely, in my opinion about 15%-20% of men get 60%-80% of the sex in America. I know that is hard to believe, but I really think it is the case. Why? Because most women only find a few men attractive.

              These women spend their teen and 20s dating trhese men. Usually these men are NOT marriage material. Then, the women seek out the other group of men whom they earlier spurned. Somehow, these men are suppose to be grateful for their interest.

              But, the whole thing is quite insulting to men. Why would I want a woman: 1) who has gone through numerous men sexually (30+), 2) who only desires me for procreation, financial stability,3) who does not find me sexually attractive? I don’t. It’s crazy and totally selfish.

              This is why sex is such a big issue in a lot of marriages in America. Women are marrying men whom they do NOT find sexually attractive. Usually these men are “sex starved” and are looking forward to fun times and a robust sex life. The women, on the other hand, have had their share of sexual experiences with multitudes of men. It (the marriage) is doomed to failure.

              I decided, after my divorce, to only become lover to women. Nothing else. I am a much much happier man with a terrific sex life.

            • Hi Jules
              You write:
              “What’s ironic is women seem to be MORE attracted to the men other women are dating”.

              Yes,this seems to be a sociological fact.
              Maybe the animal part us take over and say that this one must have some good qualities….

              But it is my impression that also men are attracted to women when they are in a happy relationship sexually,and are “glowing”. That is my own experience.

              When I am a relationship, other men more are interested than when I am single.( my husbands best friend asked me to marry him).

              It is like on the job marked. While you have a job is easier to get a new job. But when you have lost your job,it can be hard to find a new job. You are less attractive even if your skills are the same.

            • Hi Jules
              You write:
              “Precisely, in my opinion about 15%-20% of men get 60%-80% of the sex in America. I know that is hard to believe, but I really think it is the case. Why? Because most women only find a few men attractive.”

              We have studies of this phenomena in Sweden.
              Researchers tracked men and their sex partners and drew up maps of networks. I do not think remember enough about it to find back to it online.

              But they studied this. It is a way to understand how sexually transmitted decease spreads,
              epidemiological studies.

              The men were few. So you are right. In fact I think they were fewer than you can imagine!

              However I am certain that the reason is not that women find these men more attractive than others. It is more a result of how clever these men are in seducing women, and they are very very active.

              And in my view they are also a kind of ” male whores” that some women use and feel free to exploit without any pressure for commitment. Most adult women see them for what they are, and share info about them among themselves. I have been to seminars and women I have never met before warn me/ inform me about certain men. The bed hoppers. The butterflies. And the men that are male whores.

              They are NOT more attractive than other men, but they play another game…..

            • I can only speak with authority for myself, but I think most men would define “attractive” as roughly equivalent to being able to find sex partners. So saying that a man who has sex with many different women isn’t somehow more attractive than a man who has no sex or a very limited sex life might fall on deaf ears.

              I know you are likely defining “attractive” in a different sense, and there is value in being though of as attractive for a relationship. I guess I’d just as soon be the more f—able guy who chooses to pursue long term relationships, rather than the guy whose only choice is to be “good” for a LTR.

            • Hi Adrian
              I love your name!
              When I say these men are not particularly attractive,I mean they are not always good looking. They do not alway own their own home,or have a good education. Sometimes they have serious emotions issues,or struggle with dependency on alcohol or drugs.

              But they have something. They have an understanding of women. And they can be very good at I intimacy. I do not mean sexual intimacy, but emotional intimacy. And they do not see women as fragile.

              I am not talking about pick up artists.

            • @Iben…

              You write:
              “It is more a result of how clever these men are in seducing women, and they are very very active.”

              Unattractive men are usually NOT successful in seducing women.

              You write:
              “And in my view they are also a kind of ” male whores” that some women use and feel free to exploit without any pressure for commitment. Most adult women see them for what they are, and share info about them among themselves.”

              You write:
              “But they have something. They have an understanding of women. And they can be very good at I intimacy. I do not mean sexual intimacy, but emotional intimacy. And they do not see women as fragile.”

              But that “something” is what women find attractive in these men.

              Agree. But, in all these cases the women did have choice. Would you not agree?

              One of the frustrating things here in America is to get a smattering of American women to admit to what you just admitted: that women ONLY find a few men attractive.

              But few will admit that a few men are having sex with the majority of women!

              Thanks Iben for you openness and honesty.

              Cheers!

            • Hi Jules

              I am not quite sure what you mean when you write that women have a choice?
              If you mean that women can say no to some men and yes to others I agree.
              But I don’t think that is that is what you mean.

            • @Iben…

              Hello!

              Yes, you understood me correctly. That is what I meant.

              Even if the man is a “great seducer” and or a male whore or you know he is probably just a player, you can say no to him? However, few women do. This explains why they (the few and the lucky men) are so successful with so MANY women.

              I have seen college educated and sophisticated women screwing bums, literally. Why? They found him attractive. Male whore or not, it does not matter to many of them.

              That’s OK. They are free to choose whomever they desire. I support their right to choose to have sex with whatever men they desire. I also have the right to eschew such women and not be labeled as “woman hating….”

              Yet, these same women then feel entitled to marry a guy just for procreation, family, and financial stability. But, the unlucky poor sap literally has to beg her for sex! Why? Because she is NOT sexually attracted to him. The whole damn thing is just twisted in my view.

              Few American women will admit what is very very obvious. I suppose many just think we are dumb idiots.

            • Bay Area Guy says:

              Yet, these same women then feel entitled to marry a guy just for procreation, family, and financial stability. But, the unlucky poor sap literally has to beg her for sex! Why? Because she is NOT sexually attracted to him.

              This type of female entitlement gets validated by publications such as the Atlantic and Slate, with women always complaining about “where have all the good men gone”?

            • I find very few men attractive based on appearance alone. In fact, I think it is fair to say that I find NO men attractive enough to have sex with based simply on physical appearance. On the other hand, I can be attracted to a wide range of men once I get to know them. I’ve dated men of different races, body types (thin to fat, short to tall) and personality types (shy to outgoing). What makes me want to have sex with a man is my sense of an emotional connection. I like smart guys who have a passion about something (I’m a sucker for musicians). In my youth, I was more easily charmed by narcissistic men (especially musicians!) whereas as I’ve gotten older, I prefer men who have self-awareness and empathy and who won’t drive me crazy with insane drama.

            • Maybe you’re a demisexual Sarah. Because if majority of women think like you ( never think men attractive for physical aspects alone ), then why most women I know ( especially young girls ) go crazy for good looking and handsome celebrities and actors ?

              I keep hearing from women that looks arent important, its all about personality bla bla bla sense of humor confidence. I wonder If that’s really true ( women dont care about men looks ), then One Direction, Twilight, and hundreds of male celebrity like Ryan Gosling, Johnny Depp, etc wouldnt be so popular among girls dont you think?? And then I remember back in middle school and high school, good looking guys are almost always popular among girls, from the quarter back type, the guitarists type, even the nerdy types. As long as they are good looking, girls will like them. Average looking but shy = creepy, weird, but good looking guys but shy = cute, cool, mysterious.

              But its funny many women here or on the internet always said they dont care about looks. Maybe because I’m still young ( 22 years old ) and I know girls around my age do care about looks, but majority of women here are more mature? I dont know

            • @Sarah,

              So, I guess this mean you can develop an emotional connection with a literal bum or thug?

            • John – I didn’t say I don’t find men physically attractive. I meant that physical attraction isn’t enough to make me want sex with a man. I can feel lust over an attractive man. That doesn’t mean I’d actually have sex with him even if I had the opportunity. There is a guy at work who I find very attractive and he flirts with me sometimes but I’d never have sex with him. He strikes me as too much of a “player.”

              Jules – I don’t understand your comment. I doubt I’d develop an emotional connection with a “literal bum” or a thug. I don’t think we’d have much in common so where would the connection come from?

            • “I didn’t say I don’t find men physically attractive. I meant that physical attraction isn’t enough to make me want sex with a man. I can feel lust over an attractive man. That doesn’t mean I’d actually have sex with him even if I had the opportunity.”

              well then you’re no different from me. I also can have attraction with beautiful woman without want to have sex with her. But then I’m not casual sex type of man. Never in my life I have sex with anyone outside relationship, well because we have no hookup culture here in my country.

            • 1) For the same reason anyone could be interested in someone who has gone through numerous people sexually. People do not loose integrity with sex. Did you? Their values, personality and dignity is not in between their legs. Is yours?
              2) and 3) In that exclusive case a lot them, I could actually bet the majority, marry for companionship, mostly. Yes, they do want the nice guy that may not be that handsome and that they do not really feel a big sexual attraction to, but the guy is still considerate, caring, honest and respectful… some qualities a lot of the more attractive guys do not have or do not want to share – men are taught to be sex maniacs and have as much partners as possible, so a lot of the more attractive ones WILL indulge.

              A question: do you believe that, if you married any of your partners now, that their sexual attraction for you would magically disappear?

            • FlyingKal says:

              @Iben:
              “But you see, one category men are so active in approaching women that we women see more of them even if they only constitute a small percent of the male population..

              Until I found this website I did not know that some men felt invisible, I did not know that so many men felt unattractive,I did not know that some men never find anyone for romance and love. ”

              For me it’s quite incomprehensible to not even know about their existence, but it do explains a lot of my personal experiences. There’s so much I could write about this, that I don’t even know where to begin.

            • Hi FlyingKal
              You should write about it. Here,or maybe even write your own article.

              May I ask you one thing?
              What is the meaning of the word FlyingKal?

            • FlyingKal says:

              Yes, maybe I should. But as I said, I don’t know where to begin. Or if anyone’s interested. I don’t think I’m good enough in writing in English either to really get the message across.
              (I just posted another comment, we’ll see if it makes it through moderation)

              Flying is an activity, loosely connected to my job and some spare time interests of mine. (Nothing to do with being “high” on drugs.)
              Kal is just a random name, not necessarily my own.

            • FlyingKal says:

              Cont’d.

              I don’t think that we usually are brought up to be (feel) unattractive and invisible. I think it’s a state of mind that we are “conditioned” into when we start trying to interact with whatever sex/gender we are interested in. Some perople get their egos reinforced by positive feedback, and some are being constantly shut down, and this is also a process that reinforces itself since success breeds success. And I have not only been rejected, but also “actively ignored” by enough women to know that ‘m not particularly attractive. Even the small sample that I’va actually managed to form a relationship with, turned out to be not especially attracted by my “features”. It seems more that they just didn’t have anything better to do at the moment…
              So, whaddyaknow, we learn from experience.

            • How about developing more charm?

            • FlyingKal says:

              As I see that you already have, dear.

              And I was almost contemplating to take your suggestion to “write about it” seriously. Imagine that, huh…?

            • Flyingkal

              I hurt your feelings now.
              Forgive me. You see I like you. You are decent and honest.
              I did not want to offend you.
              But I admit I can not grasp the fact that some men are rejected by ALL the women they like.
              Maybe I am slow in the head,or have lived all my life as a women and that made me stupid.
              I just can not imagine a man to be ” not attractive” if he can keep an interesting conversation, shower every day,dress in some good colors, and copes with life.
              I just don’t get it.
              I did not intend to insult you Flyingkal.

              And I think you should write about it. Are you in the UK?

            • FlyingKal says:

              Iben,
              You like me? You want me to write? Why?
              And what is “charm” anyway? The ability to interfere in a conversation with denigrating oneliners? Ending up in the two of you laughing at jokes at the first guy’s expense? Or baring your fears and vulnerabilities trying to get an emotional connection, just to have that used against you in the next heated argument?

              I’m a kind, intelligent, and educated man, who still know my way around a toolbox.
              I dress well, and I’m in pretty good shape thanks to my various outdoor hobbies. And as far as I know, I don’t have any visible defects or deformities.
              I’m the guy who have never walked up to a woman after flirting across the floor. Because no woman have ever seen me and flirted with me across the floor.
              In fact, I seem to be invisible to most women. I can walk straight up to a woman and say Hi, most of them will look straight through me anyway.
              I have had women “perform” sexually with me, I have had a few shorter relationships, and a longer one. But I have never had a woman say that I’m attractive and act like she really meant it.

              (Now, I fully expect a load of presumptions about my stereotypical shortcomings as a man, partner and lover…)

              Although, I have no doubt that women like men. Attractive ones. My two best friends in school were always the “ladies’ men”. Having women contacting them in bars, on the streets, railway stations, you name it. I guess I was the ugly wingman that made them look even better… 😀

              I don’t think you’re slow or stupid. I just think we are conditioned in different realities.

    • Then why do they pick up women,have sex and leave? If they are so tired of approaching women why not stay with the one you seduced instead of running around to seduce another one and another one?

      seriously Iben, straight men keep approaching women although sometimes we tired and afraid of rejection is because, as a straight man, we would have no life partner at all if we dont approach women. I afraid of rejection, but I more afraid of die alone without a wife on my side and have no children.

      Its like many women fear of rape and assault from men, but straight women still sometimes accept a man right? Because if straight women stop accepting men and their approach, they also would live and die alone without a man in their lives.

      Its simple, do you really need to ask that Iben?? Its like I said women just need to stop accepting any men because they fear of rape. Do you agree with that Iben??? Be more understanding of men please, Iben.

      • sorry Iben, I wrong at read your statement that men should stay one you seduced. I agree with that. But what you wrong is many men dont have that ONE he seduced until he tried hundred times running around seduced women.

        Those men who have one and seduced another are cheaters, BUT THEY ARE NOT MEN. They are SOME men. Dont you know the differences between that Iben????

        • And no, not all men seduce women, have sex, and leave. If so, many of them are casual sex situation with most of the women have same purpose, have sex and leave

      • Hi John
        I promise to try and be more respectful.
        I carry some bitterness form hurt earlier in my life.

        And I wish I could say that from now on women will feel free to ask men out,and not put this burden on men.
        I am not so afraid of rejection. In fact I am afraid of success with men.

        • wellokaythen says:

          Of course women initiate sometimes. My question is how the two people interpret that. Some women who take the initiative feel some resentment for being the one who “had to take the initiative because he didn’t.” She may assume that he’s lacking something because he didn’t take the initiative, so she thinks less of him for being “too passive.” If you took the initiative, would you honestly have as much respect for that man as if he took the initiative?

          It’s not just a question of how often each sex is the approacher. It’s also a question of how people feel about it.

      • @John…

        “Its like many women fear of rape and assault from men….”

        This fear is way overblown. According to official FBI crime data, rape is down over 80% over the past three decades.

        What’s really ironic is the very men a lot of women are attracted exhibit sociopathic and narcissistic tendencies. These are the men who are more than likely to rape or sexually abuse them.

        Some women end up marrying these type of men, later to discover they are sociopaths. In my experience sociopaths are really good at deception. A lot of women are oblivious. Yesterday, I had lunch at Whole Foods in Baltimore. I sat along side two married women with a total of three kids. Well, this one woman was going on and on about how her husband took her car to work. She had to use his car and it had not gas. When she went to put gas in the car, she realized she did not have her wallet. There was a bank close by the gas station. BUT, SHE HAD TO CALL HER HUSBAND BECAUSE HER NAME IS NOT ON THE ACCOUNT! He called the Branch Manager and “gave permission” for her to “have” $50.

        It’s was obvious she was not happy. Honestly, if the other lady were not there, I would have made a move on her. I think I would of had a great shot too! I told her, if she ran out of gas, I would gladly take her and the kids home. I also gave her that “I want you look” too. She smiled and said “Thanks, you’re such a gentleman”

        The point is many women choose the wrong men and then are stuck!

  8. FlyingKal says:

    Re: #1.
    Interesting angle. Who is put in charge, and how does it really happen?

    • It seems to me that sexual satisfaction is best discovered through leap frog. Who is in charge could vary by day or night or hour or minute or even second. If the same person is, or imagines him/her self to be, for more than a few minutes pleasure melts away.

      • FlyingKal says:

        I’m sorry, but I thought that when you started talking statistics and giving examples from your own experience, that the description of the myth had transgressed into a description of how it really is,

        Maybe we are less sexually able, but at least we are trying to go somewhere.
        As I said in an earlier discussion quite similar to this: Following in another persons footsteps is hardly “taking the lead”.

  9. MYTH 1

    STUDY 1: Is there a gender difference in strength of sex drive?
    http://carlsonschool.umn.edu/Assets/71520.pdf

    All the evidence we have reviewed points toward the conclusion that men desire sex more than women.

    Across many different studies and measures, men have been shown to have more frequent and more intense sexual desires than women, as reflected in spontaneous thoughts about sex, frequency and
    variety of sexual fantasies, desired frequency of intercourse, desired number of partners, masturbation, liking for various sexual practices, willingness to forego sex, initi-ating versus refusing sex, making sacrifices for sex, and other measures.

    No contrary findings (indicating stronger sexual motivation among women) were found. Hence we
    conclude that the male sex drive is stronger than the female sex drive.

    STUDY 2: Universal Sex Differences in the Desire for Sexual Variety: Tests From 52 Nations, 6 Continents, and 13 Islands.

    “This study provides the largest and most comprehensive test yet conducted on whether the sexes differ in the desire for sexual variety. The results are strong and conclusive—the sexes differ, and these differences appear to be universal.

    Men not only possess a greater desire than women do for a variety of sexual partners, men also require less time to elapse than women do before consenting to sexual intercourse, and men tend to more actively seek short-term mateships than women do.

    These sex differences are cross-culturally robust and statistically significant regardless of whether mean, median, distributional, or categorical indexes of sexual differentiation are evaluated. These sex differences are robust and significant regardless of the measures used to evaluate them.”

    • Where is your reference to study ?

    • Hi Henry
      I read this article. Interesting. The thing is that is it based on American sample only. As you know this is a review of literature about male sex drive. The article is written by men that see sexuality with men’s eyes only and show little( close to none) understanding of women’s sexualty. A lot of the studies are far too old.
      Here is none critique of methology of the studies reviewed.

      But as I said,it is interesting.
      Here is a few sentences :
      “”Given the current state of knowledge, we regard the question of which gender enjoys sex more as unanswerable.”…..
      …Second, sexual enjoyment is not the same as sex drive. Although precise comparisons seem difficult if not impossible, we speculate based on limited evidence that women’s enjoyment of sex is more variable than men’s, with probably a lower mean enjoyment but a greater maximum enjoyment.
      ……. Men clearly have more frequent sexual desires and desire more frequent sex. The evidence on intensity is less conclusive, however………and it seems apparent (though less certain) that men experience more intense sexual desires. …… the greater male sex drive does not entail greater male sexuality in those other terms. We suggested that women’s capacity for sex may be greater than men’s in the sense that women are capable of engaging in more sex and having more orgasms than men. We concluded that there is no definite answer to the question of whether men enjoy sex more than women. We also suggested that women may surpass….the crucial point is that the greater male sex drive does not entail greater capacity, greater enjoy- ment, or greater extrinsic motivation…….
      ational Health and Social Life Survey (Laumann et al., 1994) and the large “American couples” survey (Blumstein & Schwartz, 1983) and repeatedly came down on the side of social constructionist explanations, such as by noting that the sexual revolution seems to have brought about changes in female sexuality that revealed how social pressures could override biology.
      Rigorous data from other cultures are difficult to find, given cultural mores about permissiveness of talk about sex. Thus, it is perhaps not surprising that the majority of the studies cited in this article were drawn from an American sample……
      …..However, we think it fair to assume that there has been significant influence by culture and society aimed at suppressing female sexuality…..”

    • Where is your reference to study 2 ? The cross cultural study?
      Study 1 is based on American samples primarily, with a few hints to other countries like Japan and the Nederland’s . but strange remarks about women’s sexuality in Nederland . They are described as totally sexually free.

      As a European I smile when I read that . The fact that a country is liberal does not mean that women’s sexually are totally free and uninhibited .

      • Agreed. I used to believe in this “myth” as well, but the more I’ve grown and experienced the world, the less I’ve found this to be true. Much of evidence supporting this myth is a result of a near universal desire to repress women’s sexuality. Yet, if you put women in an environment where there’s a significant imbalance between the sexes, and/or cultural rules regarding the repression of their sexuality are relaxed, and suddenly you have an environment where women become hyper-aggressive in their pursuit of sex. Peruse your typical American college campus or military dormitory, and it won’t take long before you stumble across young women with 30, 40, and 50+ partner counts. I’ve met at least two women under the age of 25 with partner counts in the triple digits. Anecdotal evidence, I know… but it’s more than enough to convince me.

      • Jameseq says:

        i think the link to his 2nd study is here
        http://www.bradley.edu/dotAsset/163311.pdf

        i inputted, ‘Universal Sex Differences in the Desire for Sexual Variety: Tests From 52 Nations, 6 Continents, and 13 Islands.’
        into a search engine (hey i love the big G since mid/late 90s, but im not going to advertise for them) and found various links

        • Hi
          Thank you. I am already convicted that most men may want sex( intercourse ) more often than women. As a general rule.

          • @Iben…

            Women want sex too. But, they want good sex. Sex involving erotica, variety, and even kinky stuff. Women have more varied sexual tastes. Men don’t seem to understand this fact.

            Also, many women say most men are not good at sex. Just what I have been told.

            So, think this also explains why men desire sex more than women.

            • Jules
              I was referring to the report Jamseq writes about. I read it,but is focuses only on sexual drive. And I tend to belive what they say there ,that most men want sex more frequently than women as a result of sexual drive.
              . But this report is a review of littérateur ( studies ) of sexual drive, but does not look at the impact of culture or sozalization of women.

              I know women like and want sex Jules. I am a woman.
              I am sorry about your marriage Jules.

            • I think it is so cool that you guys are doing all this research. I am simply not oriented that way, especially when it comes to sexuality. I like to do my research “hands on” or toes on on whatever on.

              So nice there are such different approaches.

  10. wellokaythen says:

    I hadn’t thought about #3 before in those terms, but you’re right, it is kind of common foundational myth. Hope springs eternal in the human breast. Dare to dream. There but for the grace of God go I. Wishful thinking and all that.

  11. wellokaythen says:

    Number 1 has some corollaries that are also pretty common myths.

    Myth #1, Subsection A: Men and women have totally different reasons for wanting sex.

    In reality, though, for most people their interest in sex is from a combination of reasons. Maybe as a general rule women and men tend to have different mixtures of reasons, but the lists of reasons are basically the same. It’s different recipes but with the same set of ingredients.

    Myth #2, Subsection B: Men want sex as a goal in itself, and women want sex as a means to an end.

    In reality, even if you could reduce men just to wanting sex, in a lot of cases men want sex because of what it gives them (or what they hope it gives them), not simply for the sex itself. It’s often more than just a physical itch that wants scratching. (Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t.) Even if a man is only interested in sex, it may mean deep down that he’s mainly interested in something else, something that he gets through sex.

    • Can you say more about that?

      What is this ” something else” he wants from sex?
      Is it possible that women misunderstand men all the time?

      • wellokaythen says:

        My theory:

        Many men deep down want many of the same things from sex that women want from sex. I’m not saying that men and women are totally the same or that they want the same things in the same amounts, but there are a lot of the same motives. I’m also not trying to discount biological or strictly physical motives. (Though I’m not so sure there can ever really be a firewall between the physical side and the other aspects of sex.)

        Many men crave sex in part because they want:

        1. Intimacy or emotional interaction or acceptance
        2. The chance to give and receive affection, physical and otherwise
        3. Reassurance that they’re attractive [we call this “ego” when a man wants this and “emotional needs” when a woman feels this. Total double standard.]
        4. Living in the moment, getting joy out of life, “flow,” etc.
        5. Escape to a special time and place
        6. Fulfillment of fantasies
        7. Touch with something they consider sacred, spiritual, larger than themselves, etc.

        Have women misunderstood men’s desire for sex? Clearly some have. All I ask is that women consider the *possibility* that they’ve been misinterpreting male sexuality. What you think you know may not be what’s reality. Even as a man, I assume that _I_ could be wrong about male sexuality. Please join me in embracing a little skepticism about what we think we know about sex.

        • Wellokthen

          “Please join me in embracing a little skepticism about what we think we know about sex.”

          And my answer is yes.
          It is about time to approach these issues a with an open mind.

        • FlyingKal says:

          Wellokaythen:
          I know precious little about my own sexuality, and absolutely zero about anyone else’s.
          But from where I sit, it sounds like you’re pretty spot on anyway. :-)

  12. If you reword #1 to “Men are more sexual than women” – I think this is more clearly a myth.

    There’s little argument about the male sexual response system being interested in copulation more frequently than women. It’s pretty much hard wired.

    But I would agree that the sexual creativity, robustness, kinkiness, and desire in women’s fantasies are every bit as strong or stronger than men. Women’s sexual “Mind Movies” can be much more interesting and elaborate. The foreplay sequence can start DAYS before the bedroom scene. Tension builds and so does anticipation. By the time the actual sex starts, she is swollen from head to toe and every square inch of her body is a sex organ. Her mind is in the most comfortable, safest, but WILDEST and most WILLING state it has even been in. She wants to ravish and be ravished. The emotions and physical release is mind-bending.

    Then she wakes up.

    There ARE men out there who LEARN how to create that scene and help lead her mind and body to that place – consistently. These men “take charge” not by dominating, but by using their secret masculine power to seduce. They enjoy leading the process and fully understand and expect that HER yielding and subsequent feminine leadership will blow his doors off.

    Women who seduce men who do not get their role in the process usually wind up disappointed. Yes, it’s a generalization. We all know this doesn’t apply to every person in the whole wide world. But if 1,000,000 women agree (melt?) at the idea of meeting that man, the story holds water for a lot of men out there – married or not. It’s information you can choose to use or ignore.

    I need a cigarette. ;^)

    • Hi Steve
      Thank you!

    • but how about a man who also want to feel that? A foreplay all that long, even days before penetration, create a tension, and all those things you wrote.

      I’m a man and I feel same as a woman you describe. I dont want sex bam bam and leave. I want emotions, I want context, I want foreplay, i want love.

      I’m not a man because I felt that? Yes I know your point is not that, but its the point of this article. About myth of male sexuality.

      Myth no 5. Men sexuality are not shallow. We do need context and foreplay, exactly like how a woman in your article want to feel.

      • You have a typo.
        You mean myth 5: men are shallow sexually.

        • wellokaythen says:

          I’ve brought up this paradox before. Men are supposed to be sexually indiscriminate and sexually shallow at the same time. We have totally unrealistic expectations about what women should look like AND we have sex with any woman we can. We’re only attracted to supermodels AND we’re attracted to everyone we see. We’re too indiscriminate and not discriminating enough. So which is it?

          • And what a paradox it can be. I’ve mused on this one myself before (http://dannyscorneroftheuniverse.blogspot.com/2009/12/whats-with-mixed-messages-on-male.html) and its amazing how both messages can exist at the same time.

            So which is it?
            Apparently both. We are so picky and discriminate that we will exhibit -ist behaviors (over things like skin tone, body size/shape, and willingness to have sex) but at the same time we are so indiscriminate that we are walking hormones that will bang anything in a dress.

            • wellokaythen says:

              Doesn’t even have to be in a dress…. : – )

              It’s probably pretty confusing to women as well. They’re told to be vigilant because men want to screw every woman in the world. And they’re told that men are too picky about the women they find attractive. So, that means he must want to have sex with every woman except for you.

              There is a common phenomenon out there known as “cheating down.” This is where someone cheats on a partner with someone less attractive than the original partner. It calls into question the whole “too discriminating” thing.

            • That’s a good point. I’ve often felt that way — “men want to have sex with everyone except me! I must be hideous!”

  13. “Myth 3: Men Think They Just Almost Got Laid
    The result of guys thinking they almost got laid is a frustrated preoccupation with sex. When a guy almost gets laid, he thinks about sex. Thinking about sex isn’t the same as sex, it is just more thinking.

    Notice, guys, how often you get laid and how often you think you almost got laid. The math of these two, if you will pardon the expression, is out of whack.”

    This point at first made no sense to me. After reading your description of the situation I know exactly what you mean. I was first introduced to this issue from a feminist perspective: Men think they have a right to objectifiy and sexualize women at any time, strangers, colleagues, friends, friends’ mothers.. it makes no difference who the woman is. It’s not okay as it’s a part of the story that says women are objects that men have a right to and leads to justification of violence against women.

    It took me a while to regularly stop “checking out” women, and I still catch myself almost doing it, or doing it occasionally. I never thought of it like “I just almost got laid,” but it’s the same exact situation and I have heard men talk about their encounters with women in this way, just like you described.

    I like the perspective you have on it and I like pointing out that it leads to a preoccupation with sex and frustration. I agree.

    I also welcome the spiritual perspective to these issues that you bring. I like the idea that you are not claiming truth. In the above disagreement about whether this is true or not and your description of “myth” being a proclamation of “untruth,” it makes me think that whether or not we can quantify women’s desire being greater than men’s doesn’t matter. There does seem to be a cultural expectation that men want sex all the time.. Recognizing this and recognizing that it might not be true, and that in some cases the opposite is true is empowering because it frees us to be real.. maybe our partners will drive the sexual encounters most of the time, or maybe not.. but the expectation is gone. Good.

    Please keep sharing your spiritually influenced posts on GMP. I look forward to this book you referenced and the topic of Unconditional Sex. It reminds me of the ideas I was sharing on unconditional love in the comments of another GMP post that was very similar to this post (at least on point 3):

    http://goodmenproject.com/marriage-2/a-married-mans-sexual-epiphany/

    The author’s main point:

    “Your transition from horny to happy is based in your transition from expecting things from your wife to expecting things from yourself.”

  14. It seems you get me. I appreciate that. You don’t have to wait for the book I am working on now. I would be delighted to send you two of my other books. Just call my office, if nobody is there leave your address on the machine, if someone is there tell them I said you get free books and give them your address. The number is 706.754.7540. I would like to send you Laughing with God, which is an easy, fun read. And Spiritual Seduction which is dense and rewarding.

    Thanks again for your comments, will check out the blog you referenced.

    • done!

      huzzah! Thank you, I’m excited about the books.

      • You are welcome John, glad that you called. Josh enjoyed talking with you. Yes, I am just like Byron Katie, only different.

        Feel free to touch base as you read the book. Might want to start with Laughing with God then move on to Spiritual Seduction.

        Best, Jerry

  15. Myth no 4. Men sexual arousal are not related at all with women personality, intelligence, sense of humor, how they act etc. Men sexual arousal are only related with how women looks.

    I don’t know if other men sexuality are like that, but clearly I’m not. When I’m aroused by woman I have been with, most of the times are more related to how she act and talk rather than how she looks.

  16. AnonymousDog says:

    I find it interesting that you chose to frame Myth#3 as Women ‘aren’t allowed’ to initiate. That may have been what people believed a few generations back, but I’m guessing that few believe this today. I would suggest the current Myth is that women have equal rights to initiate, but that everyone will be happier if the men shoulder the initiation burden. Everyone gives lip-service to the idea that women are able to initiate, but almost everyone has some plausible explanation as to why they so seldom do.

    • Dog,

      Great point. I couldn’t agree more.
      All this seems to me to refer back to a fairly unexplored “truth” that has become very obvious to me leading workshops for thousands of people over the past thirty years.

      I think the failure to initiate is rooted in a deep unexplored fear of other people. And I don’t think woman have this one bit more than men. Young enough kids may not have it but it seems that we all grow into this particular straight jacket and few of us get out. Asking women to initiate is asking them to face this fear. Anybody initiating is a brave event which gains a little ground in our dance with this fear.

      After taking the EST training years ago the fear of other people disappeared. I recall picking up an African American hitchhiker at two in the morning just South of Zion Illinois. I drove him to the South side of Chicago on my way further South. He was astonished that I picked him up. I was pleased to do so. Today I might not pick him up and though I can lead a workshop for a thousand people approaching an attractive woman can make my knees knock.

      We are strange creatures with explored and unexplored nooks and crannies all over the place. Perhaps it is time to get to know ourselves!

      Thanks for your comments.

    • Is this a fact? Or is it myth about women.

      Is it true that women never approach men and show that they like them?
      Is it true than women in a sexual relationship never initiate sex?

  17. #3: I was having a casual conversation with a fellow HS alum at a cocktail party a few weeks ago… While he was talking to me about coaching girls’ basketball uptown, he kept touching my arm repeatedly even though I was looking right at him and nodding… When we took a group photo, he held his camera phone in one hand and reached around me with his other to adjust it (effectively encircling me with his arms)….later, I had to wave my wedding ring practically in his face and talk loudly about my husband and kid when someone else joined in the conversation….he also got kinda hands-y with the friend who accompanied me ( she is married with kids, too!)….

    I get it– people like to flirt and put out all kinds of signals at parties, but really….did he really think he was going to get anywhere with two very married women?

    • Sound awful: and not unusual. Find myself apologizing for guys all the time just because I am on.

      Back in 68, dating myself badly here, I was wandering Haight Ashbury looking for a place to stay. It was late and I jumped at the chance to stay with a thin, long haired guy I met on the street. I crashed only to discover later that night that he thought I was his toy. I was up and out of there quickly. Walking the streets for the rest of the night I met a guy down on his luck. We walked and talked until dawn. He explained to me that what I had just experienced, with the guy coming on to me, was what women experience most of the time. I never forgot that, and I haven’t done such a thing since.

      Again, sorry

    • @Leia….

      A lot of married women are not happy or in love with their husbands. You would be surprised. Maybe not.

      So, with that said, a lot of them are open to a lot of situations, including the karate coach, tennis instructor,…….

      People can deny this all they want, but it is not going to change reality.

  18. AnonymousDog says:

    I also think your article would have had more resonance with readers if you hadn’t felt that you had to be so careful not to be seen as ‘blaming’ women for men’s sexual/romantic frustrations. Male sexual frustration is something that doesn’t get discussed as much as it deserves. Many shy away from such discussion, at least in part because of a fear that they will be accused of blaming men’s frustrations on women, even if they had no intention of doing so.

  19. Blaming anybody for anything gives too much of my power away, making me a bit of a pawn. If I attribute cause to someone else I am stuck with effect. Don’t care much for that or find it useful either.

    I do understand what you are saying but it seems to me that relationship becomes most intimate when it is unilateral. Funny that!

  20. Myth #1 seems to stem from the belief that desire is primarily a function of biochemistry more specifically hormones and most specifically the hormone testosterone. This is generating a multi-billion dollar testosterone replacement therapy industry which has a massive incentive to argue for the truth of this myth.

  21. Hi Jerry, in what way does knowing these myths actually free a man from having to approach women first? He still has to approach women does he not, as women do not approach men!?

    Also, I am confused by the use of the word myth here in the case of men having to approach women first. It is certainly a social rule and a reality so are you saying it’s a myth because it ‘s a false expectation?

    Sunil.

  22. Yes the awareness of “man approach first rule” can certainly take the pressure off having to act it out all the time, but at some point, the man will have to make that first approach anyway, will he not?

    Are you saying it’s liberating to know these rules because then we don’t have to act them out all the time and feel the pressure to live by those rules?

    • Thanks for the question Sunil.

      I consider attention to be an evolutionary gift that human beings have. Not only do I consider it wise to use this gift but also fruitful. I have studied attention for decades, with my attention of course, which makes the whole exploration both rewarding and unpredictable: two things attention thrives on.

      I suggest that attention offers us the most subtle influence over what happens here on Earth. As such, bringing these myths into attention has an influence. What that influence is I can’t say: changing things is much more heavy handed than simply having them enter attention. But I have, through years of working with many people come to the conclusion that having data, about ourselves come into our attention is beneficial to us. So, in the case of myths, bringing them into attention will influence them, and we get to notice that influence and take credit for the subtlety of it and that it is ours.

      Sorry if what I have written sounds a bit odd. I have studied attention for so long and such depths that I have way more to say than would fit in a post or a book. This is partially why my workshops go for long, fun hours as we play with the subtlety of attention.

      Here is a link to some fun listening. This is from a call where we explore attention and three ways to use it more effectively. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34730983/WKUP-04-30-13.mp3.
      Thanks again for the question.

      Best, Jerry

      • Hi Jerry,

        That was an awesome call! It really opened my eyes to how things get blocked in my attention because I am not really allowing them into my attention. When I see it with attention, I can treat it as a respected temporary visitor. This is already helping to clear those intensely obsessive thoughts and repetitive patterns..

        The other thing I got from the call is that it is not about controlling our attention, as I have been trying to do for many years, but merely following where the attention is going. It saves the huge amount of energy that goes into always trying to control, resist and manipulate my experiences rather than flowing with them. That is really priceless.

        I would like to join your calls. Where can I signup for them?

        Thank you for the invaluable insights.

        Sunil.

  23. FlyingKal says:

    Actually, IRL I’ve more often heard myth#1 being said by women than by men…

  24. kashdoller says:

    A myth is not the same as a social norm. A myth, which is a sacred tale based on tradition that serve a profound purpose in culture, may LEAD to a social norm. However they are not one in the same.

    Men making the first move to initiate sex is not a myth, it is a social norm. However not all social norms are derived from myths. This social norm was derived from human history and from how our species has lived and survived for thousands of years. Surely you can see why men would be making the moves on women without me having to do much explaining here? None of the explanation comes from anything involving a “myth”. Unless of course you just want to consider most of human history one big mythical story.

    Men wanting sex more than women could be looked at as a myth possibly. However I don’t even believe this idea is pervasive in our culture to begin with. It completely depends on the age by which you are judging people. A couple in high school might share your associated viewpoint. However a couple married for 15 years approaching the age of 40 likely will not. Ever see the old sitcom “Married With Children”? This show alone describes the exact opposite “myth” that women past their prime want and need sex much more than men do at this stage in their life.

    Your 3rd point of men thinking they just got laid I just completely do not identify with whatsoever and never have. I’m not really sure where you got this from. I certainly can see how a certain segment of our population, namely the less intelligent or less educated of individuals, would think this way. But if this is how men perceive their life when a run-in with an attractive female is concerned I must be some kind of aberration.

    • Until the Victoria era in western culture, women were seen as the more libidinous gender. Women’s perceived propensity for chaotic, aggressive sexuality was used as a justification for restrictions on women’s freedom. Women needed to be controlled by men (first their father, then their husband) or they were liable to go nuts and have sex with every guy in sight.

      This is still the belief in the Arab world, or so I’ve read. Women are seen as a sexual temptresses with no self control. That’s why they have to cover up in public.

  25. In short, being told I’m somehow less sexually open, feeling, expressive, or able isn’t freeing to me….

  26. Hi : wellokaythen
    You write:

    “Of course women initiate sometimes. My question is how the two people interpret that. Some women who take the initiative feel some resentment for being the one who “had to take the initiative because he didn’t.” She may assume that he’s lacking something because he didn’t take the initiative, so she thinks less of him for being “too passive.” If you took the initiative, would you honestly have as much respect for that man as if he took the initiative?

    It’s not just a question of how often each sex is the approacher. It’s also a question of how people feel about it.”

    My answer is:YES. Honestly I will have respect for a man that is not so obsessed with taking initiative all the time./ often. I would prefer it.

    What makes me respect a man depends on other qualities than a tendency to initiate sex..

    I am talkative but not dominating. I do not want to dominate a man. But I guess psychologically I am a bit like a cat. If you want to befriend a cat,then do not run after it. Simply sit down and talk softly and the cat turns around and comes to you.
    I hate pressure of any kind..

    Sometimes I do feel a man is lacking something . That is if he do not shower,smell clean, wear colors that complements his completion and personalty, cloths that fit. If he is uneducated sexually. And if he never grasp the fact that sex is a 24/7 thing.

    The way he relates to me every day, the way he treats me as a human being will decide if I become and stay attracted to him. His skills,his conversations, how secure he is emotionally,his self respect, how he deals with life, solve problems, the friends he keeps, how safe I feel around him. His attitude to money….and many other things. Like how much of his time he spends with me.

    If he thinks what fascinates me is his frequent initiative,then he is wrong. It can be boring and unsophisticated.
    It is boring and unsophisticated!

    I will never feel resentment towards a man for not taking the initiative.

    But I dream of and want some real passion.

    • I agree with much of what you say!

      I’m currently at the point where I’m dating again. I don’t feel that frantic desperation I’ve witnessed with some of my friends, so I tend to take a more relaxed approach to dating where I meet people in a casual setting as a friend and seeing where it goes from there.

      The ultimate goal may very well be sex/a relationship, but the immediate goal is simply a connection. I think, as a woman, the thing I find so frustrating is men who are standoffish. I meet them and get the impression they’re attracted, but they feel the need (for whatever reason) to “play it cool”. If I’m appearing open to spending time with him, if I’m talking and laughing with him, if I’m giving him my attention, finding excuses to be close to him where appropriate… in effect, making it easier for him to see that my body language and approach says: “hey, fella, I find you attractive!” To then come across a guy who switches quickly from “I’m attracted” to “let’s see how far away I can be without physically moving” is incredibly confusing and, ultimately, will result in me friend-zoning him.

      This has happened. I’ve assumed they’re not interested, or are far too passive, to keep my interest in that sense. This same guy may then even (belatedly) make hints he’s interested, but his actions don’t support his words.

      On the other hand, I’ve met guys at the other end. Guys who are very clear about what they want, bordering on aggressive. They touch at every opportunity, frequently invading personal space when failing to take note of what my body language tells them. If the contact isn’t reciprocated, the odds are I’d rather he cooled it a bit. Particularly if it’s the first date and they’re “full steam ahead” and I’m still trying to work out how I feel/think/want from the situation.

      Is there such thing as a middle ground? I do hope so, as neither really works for me. The former leaves me frustrated and confused, the latter I find really intimidating.

      • Seems Kelly that you were saying sometimes the porridge is too hot, and sometimes it’s too cold. In the fairy tale, with the Bears, just right is discovered. But in relationship it’s often the case that you have to create just right. You’re working with rough material here, both in yourself and in them. There is certainly a training period.

        I don’t think it’s easy out there on the front lines, for either male or female. The trick might be to observe more than judge. And learn about yourself by what you want, and what you’re willing to put up with, and what you require.

        Certain conditions must be met, but if they are then you have a conditional relationship. Which is really isn’t as safe or fun or passionate as it might be.

        It seems that the greatest trick is to enjoy the journey. So enjoy meeting people, and getting to know them. Don’t judge them out too fast, or too slowly. It’s easier to look for Mr. right, then it is to be Mr. right. Because Mr. Wright keeps changing.

        Warmly, Jerry

        • I suppose it’s more my observation that that’s the two extremes I seem to encounter, and rarely the ‘just right’. I’m in no rush, and I’m certainly enjoying making new friends. Fortunately, the people I have met tend I feel I can be open with and we have explored our experiences in a fairly general sense. I’d like to think that will lead to improvements on both sides (theirs and mine), but only time will tell.

  27. Jules

    Hi Jules

    ” However, few women do. ”

    Jules,it is impossible for us to know if it is few or many women.

    When research tell us that women in America have only 4 sex partners in their life time (median) then it is unlikely ( impossible)that all women say yes to any player they meet.
    Scandinavian women have from 4-6 ( median).

    If women marry a man just to get economic support then I understand you are upset. To be used and exploited is always terrible,and it hurts the most when it is done by one you love and trust. It can scar you for life.

    But remember Jules, not all women are out to exploit you.
    My marriage also failed but that is an other story. I know all men are not like my husband . I also know what I did wrong in that marriage. It took me long time to understand that.

    • @Iben,

      Hello!

      “When research tell us that women in America have only 4 sex partners in their life time (median) then it is unlikely ( impossible)that all women say yes to any player they meet.”

      Do you really think this # is reliable? Women tend to understate sexual partners while men tend to overstate.

      I really think the number depends on several factors: socioeconomic status, race, urban vs suburban, etc. Today, I really think by the time a woman graduates from college (with its pervasive hookup culture), she has easily had 4-5 sex partners. In fact, I would venture to say it is closer to 10.

      Yes, it is a scar on you for life. You feel dirty and like a second class citizen. This is no doubt the source of my distrust of women. A lot of them say one thing, but believe (and do) another.

      • Jules
        “Yes, it is a scar on you for life. You feel dirty
        and like a second class citizen. ”

        Thank you for expressing your feelings Jules. I remember a neighbor telling me about his feelings in his marriage when his wife rejected him.He said:” it was as if I smelled”.

        It is hard to do reseach about how many sexual partners we have. It seems to be only a little group women that has many partners. Like 10% in Scandinavia.

        It is hard to trust someone after betraiil. Time does not heal all our wounds but a new love relationship can. I hope you find one that is sincere.

  28. John

    Girls grow up and become women.
    There is a reason why Dr. Phil advice us not to marry before we are 30.
    Most of us are not mature enough to pick the right parter when we are young.

    Women do not lie to you John when they tell you that they are not looking for the most handsome man they find to share their life with.

    Men on GMP tell women:” do not tell me what I feel and think”.

  29. Hi Flyingkal
    You write:
    “You like me? You want me to write? Why?
    And what is “charm” anyway? The ability to interfere in a conversation with denigrating oneliners? Ending up in the two of you laughing at jokes at the first guy’s expense? Or baring your fears and vulnerabilities trying to get an emotional connection, just to have that used against you in the next heated argument?”

    And here is my answer:
    A long time ago on another thread you asked me a question about what I most of all wanted from a relationship /marriage. No man has ever asked me that before. That is why I like you.
    I also like that you are honest,sincere and obviously not a player or a cold calculating guy.
    You share your feelings and vulnerability. That is a strength .I would like to understand men better and this is the first time I have heard a story like yours. That is why I asked you to write more about it.

    But somehow I wonder if you are depressed.

    I also wonder where I the world you live.
    This is how you describe it:
    “In fact, I seem to be invisible to most women. I can walk straight up to a woman and say Hi, most of them will look straight through me anyway.”

    I have never treated a man like what you describe here as to look straight through him. But then I never go to bars or nightclubs and this behavior sounds like how woman might behave in a bar where she fears all the men only want to pick her up.
    I don’t know.
    Women in my family do not treat men like that. My women friends do not treat men like that.
    It is terribly terribly impolite.
    Are you living in “princess land”?

    And let me tell you this Flyingkal,you are not invisible here online on GMP.

  30. Men want sex more than women do is. Not. A. Myth.

    As evidenced by practically everything.

  31. FlyingKal says:

    Iben,
    Thank you.
    But.
    If sharing your feelings and vulnerability only lands you in loneliness and an “easy target” for rude behaviour, where is the strength in that?

    No, I’m not depressed. At least not in the clinical sense. Resigned, more likely.

    Yes, me being treated as invisible has happened in bars and discos, mostly. But also in a variety of other places, where I just wanted to ask for directions or other everyday things. But the venues for the treatment is not that important, the point is more how I’m treated differently than my (more successful/attractive/confident) friends at the same place and time.
    Example. Me and a couple of my friends are out at a club, sitting at a table having a couple of brews and talk. A girl comes up and want to dance. She asks my friends, one at a time, if they want to dance with her, but all of them turn her down because they don’t want to dance at the moment. So she leaves, without asking me, and only me. Sure, it was just a coincidence. She got discouraged by being turned down, and didn’t even bother to ask the last guy, the fourth or fifth in the group. But if this happens repeatedly, if you are the only guy being singled out to not even be asked. 10 times? 20 times? When does it stop being a coincidence…?

    I don’t know what you would call a “princess land”. I guess I’m probably much closer to you than you think.

    • FlyingKal says:

      Also, please try and remember that the above scenario is just a sample.
      Trying to deconstruct or debunk it will add nothing to the experience or this conversation.

    • “Much closer than you think”.
      Hmmmm!

      We are many resigned people Flyingkal. I am also resigned even if I never felt invisible.
      Life sucks at times but we have to enjoy it as best we can.

  32. Natalie says:

    Are we still saying that women never approach men, and hearing that men wish that women did? I don’t know, I live in New York – is life in the rest of the country that different? Women here constantly approach men. I used to as well, in a very calm, friendly and lightly flirtatious manner. And what I found is that it never went anywhere. I would open the door for conversation, ask a question, and get a basic response with no volley back. I’d have to be the one continuously asking questions to keep the conversation going, with no questions in return about me – always making it rather clear that they weren’t interested and not interested in finding out if they could be. There were also plenty of times that they’d answer the question, I’d be the one to keep the convo going and within a brief period of time they’d excuse themselves to find a friend or something.

    I’m sure this description must conjure quite an image of me, lol! As though I must be hideous in appearance or lacking some sort of social ability in conversation. I would have to argue, that it’s quite the opposite. Most of the times I was trying opening a conversation because a man had been looking at or making eye contact with me for quite some time, and I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he was a bit shy or didn’t want to risk rejection. And my career is the kind that requires I be able to have meaningful conversations with people from all walks of life, so I am quite the conversationalist and am often told that I’m interesting to talk with. Absolute strangers have a habit of telling me their life stories.

    For a few years now, I have stopped initiating conversation with men I might be interested in. And I don’t see other women have much success with it either. My conclusion is that the reality is a guy will approach a woman if he’s interested enough, and if he doesn’t then it’s most likely not going to lead to anything – whether it’s because he’s just not in the mood to engage, isn’t that interested in finding a date or a mate, or whatever the reason. It’s become extraordinarily difficult to tell when a guy is just checking me out but may have a girlfriend, or is interested but really shy. I still make eye contact back, ensure to smile widely if there’s a natural happenstance – like almost bumping into eachother at the water fountain at the gym. But heck, I’m still single and neither friends, family or other can figure out why.

    • I’m sure this description must conjure quite an image of me, lol! As though I must be hideous in appearance or lacking some sort of social ability in conversation. I would have to argue, that it’s quite the opposite. Most of the times I was trying opening a conversation because a man had been looking at or making eye contact with me for quite some time, and I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he was a bit shy or didn’t want to risk rejection. And my career is the kind that requires I be able to have meaningful conversations with people from all walks of life, so I am quite the conversationalist and am often told that I’m interesting to talk with. Absolute strangers have a habit of telling me their life stories.

      You left a lot to the imagination about how you talk and whether there’s overt flirting involved, but the image your description conjures up for me is guys who don’t assume that idle conversation is a sign of interest – it’s a sign of someone who likes to talk. In fact, it’s sort of pounded into a lot of our heads that just because a woman talks to you, that doesn’t make her a hot prospect, so it’s rude to treat her like one. I don’t know enough to say your signals are too subtle, but it sure sounds like a possibility to me. I also find it interesting because I’ve often heard women describe experiences of being “hit on”, where all it sounded like to me in the details they give was that a guy was talking to them. It’s like there’s a gender-based difference about what constitutes an “approach” where that means “to express romantic or sexual interest”, and the female perception is a lot more inclusive, which leads both to a feeling of having been approached that way more often than they really have, and that they approach men more often than the men have any inkling of.

      • You are right!
        Women approach men more often than they understand.
        Some men see it,and act on it, other men see it,or maybe they see it but can not trust their own instincts and think they only imagine things?
        .
        In fact this may be one important difference between men in involuntary celibacy and the others.
        Because as a women I know how easy it is for men to connect to women if they have security inside.

  33. Thanks for your comments Natalie,

    Years ago, when I was on Match.com I tried listing my location as NYC. I can assure you that things aren’t so different in NYC. I did meet some very intelligent people and they did move a little faster than the people I met on Match in Georgia but there were no generalizable differences.

    I greatly appreciate what you have written. It typifies the sort of things that many of my clients say. At least before we work together. I will try, in a few sentences to give you a little relief.

    You not only have to reach out to someone, like talking to the guy first, but you have to keep reaching out. Relating requires continual reaching out. It is a process. Relationship: as a thing, doesn’t really exist. Relating as a process requires you to stick your neck out over and over and over again until you can simply keep your neck out, less turtleish, and then you are ready to be a couple.

    Being single has a certain set of problems. You get to solve those problems, hopefully, and then you can become a couple, which has a very different set of problems. Being single has the exact same number of problems that being a couple does. Being single and saying you want to in a relationship is a subtle rephrasing of “the grass is greener.” It is promising to yourself that if you were with someone then life would be better. This is a promise that you won’t/can’t keep.

    Being with someone isn’t inherently easier or harder than being by yourself. It is different. You might want to specifically focus your attention on celebrating the things single life lets you do that couple life might not. I have never found anything that leads more quickly to discovering relating than to really life up being single.

    I coach people regularly in situations like yours. Was doing so just this morning with a sweet, very smart guy from Madison. He wants to know if he should be in relationship. He is afraid that he will hurt the women he is with. Actually, being more honest, which I urged him to be, he is afraid of being hurt himself. I let him know in no uncertain terms that trying not to be hurt doesn’t make it less likely or more likely you will be. Trying not to hurt someone else doesn’t influence the ongoing level of hurt either.

    If you would like a coaching call sometime to explore both single life and the things that might be in the way of you diving deeply into a romantic relationship I would be glad to do so. I do change for my services, but I am very good at what I do. It would be a one hour call and it is recorded. You receive the only recording and re-listening to the call will allow you to fully integrate it, assuring you results. Please take a look at jerrystocking.com, if you are interested in a call just let me know. The bad news about a call is that it costs two hundred dollars, the good news is that it will change your life and have your problems melt away. The fun news is that new and different problem will reveal themselves.

    Thanks, Jerry

  34. If men wanted women to approach them more, or be more free with sex, then all you have to do is STOP USING THE WORD SLUT tomorrow

  35. Mathilda says:

    Re: “Men want sex more than women do”

    That’s the greatest lie ever told and if it’s said often enough, it must be true.

    http://www.salon.com/2013/06/02/the_truth_about_female_desire_its_base_animalistic_and_ravenous/

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