Chuck Ross asks brides-to-be: Is it all about the ring?
I’ve never thought to defend Mark Zuckerberg. Farmville made that almost impossible. But I’ll do it this once. This has nothing to do with Facebook’s horrid IPO or its lack of a plan to gin up revenue to support its bloated market capitalization. Instead, I must defend Zuckerberg against a small but vicious pack of hyenas who are accusing him of being a cheapskate.
Intertwined with his company’s public debut, the newly minted billionaire married his longtime girlfriend Priscilla Chan. Their ceremony was modest – it involved a backyard wedding at the medical graduate Chen’s home. Cheap Mexican food was served, most likely on paper plates. No honeymoon was embarked on.
But the real headline grabber, picked up by celebrity gossip site TMZ and others, was Zuckerberg’s thrift in the ring department. People who are concerned with such things estimate that the ring Zuckerberg bought for his bride cost a measly $25,000—or a micro-penny swing of Facebook’s share price.
At least one writer, the New York Post’s Rita Delfiner, complained that even Kris Humphries procured a $2 million stone for Kim Kardashian. Delfiner points out, without irony, that the former reality TV couple was only married for 72 days.
Channeling the frustration of women from Montgomery to Manhattan, Delfiner wrote “it looked as if Mrs. Mark Zuckerberg had won the lottery when she married the Facebook boss last weekend—but now she appears to be the unluckiest lucky woman alive.”
Few are crying.
I step up for Zuckerberg because I, too, plan to be up for review. My ring-purchasing prowess on display—most likely on Facebook. I’ll be engaged in the near future, and I’ll have to tackle this ring business. But I’ll admit that the thought of plunking down a large amount of money for a ring makes a part of me want to avoid the whole thing altogether.
Truth is, I’d probably already be married with kids if it weren’t for the engagement ring provision that holds so much cultural cachet in my—and many other men’s—social circle.
All of the guys I know who have gone through the rigmarole of either depleting their savings or going into hock to uphold this feisty tradition (which feminism has done little to dislodge) have told me, with faces communicating defeat, that they were powerless to withstand the pressure of the ring. Worse, the price of it has mysteriously inflated over the generations. An 88 year-old retired professor I sometimes visit with told me that the ring he bought his bride—now 65 years in—looked like something out of Cracker Jack box. But his bride didn’t complain because every other woman of the era was getting the same thing.
This ringflation comes at a time when young women are earning the lion’s share of college degrees and earning more income than men. The engagement ring tradition isn’t keeping up with the changing economic reality.
Marriage rates have declined marginally over the decades. The length of co-habitation is the highest it’s ever been—seventeen months today compared to just a handful a generation or two ago.
But there are still women (and men) who want to get married. And within that group, there is a subgroup of young women who really want to get married and who lament their boyfriends’ procrastination.
Thinking in economic terms, it makes sense that men in marginal relationships or men without great means would avoid the whole thing. I’m sure someone will come along and argue that the engagement ring is a good thing because it helps sift out the weakest relationships. But then there are the guys stuck here with me in the middle to lower-middle class who still face this pressure to perform.
And all this while student loans need paying and well-paying jobs are hard to come by. The women who truly want to get married in a timely fashion could speed up the process by relaxing this ring pressure. A simple “Hey, future husband, don’t worry about that ring. It’s not a big deal.” Women have historically been good at rallying around causes in order to enact social change. But the question is, do they want the ring or do they want the marriage?
—Photo credit: Philip Taylor PT/Flickr
I think it’s really awful and petty and small minded what Delfiner said about Zuckerbery and his wife. Measuring how lucky his wife is because her ring isn’t in tandem with his paycheck. If Delfiner knew anything about Zuckerberg, she would know that in general, he is pretty low key and it’s probably part of the reason why him and his wife work well together. My guess is she is low key as well. He didn’t marry some Playboy Bunny with huge fake boobs and died hair looking for her next reality TV show. He married a very beautiful normal… Read more »
“I think it’s really awful and petty and small minded what Delfiner said about Zuckerbery and his wife. Measuring how lucky his wife is because her ring isn’t in tandem with his paycheck.” He seems to be commending him for not buying into materialism. I personally agree. Not being materialistic is admirable, not small-minded, IMO “When I get married, I don’t want a big wedding. Just something very small and personal. I would like a ring because I like what it traditionally symbolizes but I don’t expect something big and expensive.” Would you be willing to help pay for it?… Read more »
Eric said: “He seems to be commending him for not buying into materialism. I personally agree. Not being materialistic is admirable, not small-minded, IMO” Woops, it looks like I read it wrong. I thought he was getting lamblasted there. Clearly, from the rest of my comments, you can see that I don’t think he deserves to be lamblasted and that I clearly stated that the lack of materalism was nice and the small mindedness was directed to people that judged the luck of his wife by the amount of money he spent on a ring. Eric: “Would you be willing… Read more »
If something is expected, obligatory, and required, it’s not really a gift, IMO. But, not everyone agrees. “Excuse me but where did I say that having a diamond ring was the show-stopper or that I was looking for a diamond ring to be the show-stopper?” You said: “I simply wouldn’t be compatible with someone that only saw bad things in the tradition of marriage and a ring.” “I am and like being a traditional woman in some regards. I’m not sure it’s fair to shame me for my enjoyment of some tradtional practices anymore then it would be fair to… Read more »
Again, I ask, where did I say having a diamond ring was a show-stopper or that I was looking for a diamond ring to be a show-stopper? There is an entire grey area between wanting to uphold the tradition of having a ring to wear when one is married vs saying I need a “show-stopper”. Further, me saying that I am not compatible with someone that does not agree with my ideas on marriage and tradition is not a slight on people who differ from me. As you can see for this article and the responses, there are a lot… Read more »
Meh…I’m a feminist and I have zero interest in engagement rings, diamonds, or other ostentatious displays of wealth or silly attempts to “measure” something like human regard with dollar figures. I was raised by free thinking parents who did not wear rings–because they didn’t care for them and never “got” the whole wedding/engagement ring thing, so I think it’s just a socialized/marketed scam for the diamond cartel. The whole “a diamond is forever/two months salary” thing was dreamed up by De Beers and company who price-control the world diamond market (which is why diamonds have so little “street value”…the store… Read more »
Me, personally I dont care about the price of the ring. I’d be happy with a wedding band. No need for a man to get me a fancy ring, unless he wants to.
I’ll even take it a step further and say I dont need a fancy wedding either. I’d be fine getting hitched at the court house then having a reception for family and friends.
There’s this mineral called moissanite, and its existence means anybody buying a diamond to be used for anything but drill bits is a sucker. Moissanite is much cheaper than diamond, shinier than diamond, and is manufactured in labs. Giving your wife a rock that was manufactured in a lab doesn’t sound very romantic, but it’s better than diamond, which is mined out of the earth by slave labor.
The strangest thing to me about this discussion is that men aren’t in most cases buying a gift on their own, certainly not one that seems it would need reciprocation. Most couples share their finances and usually both are working. My wedding band cost a lot more than my wife’s simply because it had a lot more platinum, and for the engagement ring we both looked at the price because ultimately we both were paying for it. I don’t WANT some fancy cuff links to pay off, or a frivolous gift. I’ve got my simple band and that’s ideal. Her… Read more »
Here’s some historical background:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engagement_ring#section_2
The most pertinent thing is that most of our “tradition” was established by a South African cartel in the 20th century.
What is interesting but not the least bit surprising is that the anti-gender-role crowd seldom raises objections to highly gendered, traditional practices where the man is expected to be the one begging and/or buying (in contrast to their very vocal objections to other gender-role traditions), such as being expected to be the only one to spend thousands (depending on how much he can save up for or borrow on credit) and get down on one knee to beg the woman to marry him. For some reason, those gendered social obligations and practices are cool (given their relative silence or defense/approval… Read more »
Funny, because in my experience they do. If you spend any time reading feminist blogs or take a gender studies course you’ll see that the “anti-gender-role crowd” absolutely DOES oppose these kinds of rituals. The whole engagement ring tradition is definitely looked down upon and whenever it comes up most people rail against it. I think that feminist blogs try to be careful not to tell someone that they shouldn’t do something if they WANT to do it (assuming it’s mutual and doesn’t impact anyone else) so they wouldn’t necessarily shame a woman who accepted a big honkin’ engagement ring… Read more »
“If you spend any time reading feminist blogs or take a gender studies course you’ll see that the “anti-gender-role crowd” absolutely DOES oppose these kinds of rituals.” Not true. Evidence is right here. This has become, essentially, a feminist blog, and there is zero opposition of these kind of rituals; rather defense of them. When you hear of opposition to gender roles, this is seldom mentioned, and I have read feminist blogs on this very subject. Whatever opposition there may be is few and far between and extraordinarily mild compared to the opposition of women taking men’s names or men… Read more »
When I stated that “There is enormous evidence that this is not even close to being true”, it was in reference to his general statement not about any individuals
Okay, well, I guess we may just disagree on this issue, but that’s okay. I don’t think you are being irrational, I just think we are reading different blogs and different articles. As for this being a feminist blog, I agree. But isn’t article itself disproving your point? You say that on this blog there is zero opposition of these kind of rituals. Yet this very article we’re commenting on is pushing back on that tradition. So, while it might not be every article, we know that–at the very least–there is some amount of opposition that is more than zero!… Read more »
‘But isn’t article itself disproving your point? You say that on this blog there is zero opposition of these kind of rituals. Yet this very article we’re commenting on is pushing back on that tradition.” The ones pushing back on it are non-feminists; the ones supporting and defending it are feminists. That’s very clear evidence. “So, while it might not be every article, we know that–at the very least–there is some amount of opposition that is more than zero!” Even if it’s not absolute, it’s clear that the vast majority of feminists support rather than oppose these unequal, gender-role traditions.… Read more »
I lucked into my procurement of the engagement ring I gave my wife. It belonged to my grandmother and contained a nice sized stone, which I used as the centerpiece of the ring that she had made, at her specifications, because we went shopping for the ring together. So by virtue of being the first-born male on my fathers side of the family, I inherited her engagement ring. I think knowing where it came from and that it is an heirloom makes it more meaningful than valuable. But in general, I think men have the understanding that the ring they… Read more »
>>> This ringflation comes at a time when young women are earning the lion’s share of college degrees and earning more income than men. This is not correct. First, young women are only earning more college degrees than men in North East urban centers. Second, these young women are not earning more income than men, they are close to on par with with young men, but only when NOT accounting for college degrees. Meaning that in the North East, women with college degrees are earning as much as men without college degrees. It’s an interesting discussion as to why more… Read more »
If only you were so passionate about shooting down the “women earn 77 cents for every dollar men earn” myth. To speak to your first point about women earning more degrees only in the Northeast. That’s completely false. Here is one piece of research (from 2003, but if anything the trend has only grown in women’s favor) that shows that women across the country are earning between 56% of degrees (in the West) and 58% of bachelor’s degrees (in the South). http://ovcaa-iro.org/ovcafo_archive/VCAFO%20Bulletins/gender_gap.pdf And here’s a USA Today piece about the trend of young, single, childless women outearning men of similar… Read more »
Cheever: I haven’t looked up the distribution yet, but the assertion was that young women earns the lion share of college degrees and that happens to be true nationally at least: From 1998–99 to 2008–09, the percentage of degrees earned by females fluctuated between 61 and 62 percent for associate’s degrees and remained steady around 57 percent for bachelor’s degrees. In contrast, both the percentage of master’s and the percentage of doctoral degrees earned by females increased during this period (from 58 to 60 percent and from 43 to 52 percent, respectively). National Center for Educational Statistics: h ttp://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=72 Given… Read more »
Crap, I forgot to close the blockquote after the line saying: “52 percent, respectively).”.
Please read accordingly.
(and since it’s in moderation I would appreciate if the mods could be bothered to fix it).
Check out these results from the 2012 census: http://www.census.gov/prod/2012pubs/p70-129.pdf Particularly, review table 8, which shows women making less than men in every educational level. Here’s a good break down of those results. http://www.good.is/post/women-make-less-than-men-at-every-education-level/ As for college degrees, it does look like I was using outdated numbers and that it may be more of a national trend. Unfortunately, even with those college degrees you can see from the most recent census that earnings have not equalized. As for that USA Today article linked to by Chuck Ross, it’s exactly what I’m talking about. It says that in cities, young, single, childless… Read more »
Also, why are we all so proud of the fact that single, 22-30 year old, city-dwelling, childless women out earn men by 8%? Great! We only penalize women for: being married, having kids, not living in cities, or being older than 30. Because add any of those qualifiers and the comparable men are earning more. If you think that means that sexism is dead and there is no longer wage disparity, you are fooling yourself. It’s possible that YOU are a 22-30 year old, city-dwelling, childless man and you are worried that you will make less than comparable women, but,… Read more »
Great information Cheever.
If only you gals were typical of the women in my social circle.
I’m jumping lily pads here, but I’ll tie this in to the thread about Noah Brand and his naked body. On the internet, we’ll find politically conscious, socially aware men and women who wouldn’t be hung up on such trivialities as diamond rings’ price carats and price points. But among the non-blog reading set, a lot of women in their middle twenties care about such things. It’s insane to me.
It’s insane to me too. I don’t understand it. Engagement ring commercials are so incredibly infuriating to me. A man’s love and commitment has monetary value?! No. No, no. Just… NO!
I wear a simple diamond white gold engagement ring that my fiancé, now husband, bought when he was quite poor and working 80 hours per week thousands of miles from where I was doing the same…When we got married, he got me a white gold band with 3 diamonds embedded into it…although one diamond has since slipped out and has been lost…my GF urges me to replace the missing diamond (otherwise, the rest of the diamonds are “going to fall out”)….I just leave everything the way it is…I can’t bear to upgrade or change a thing (no matter how much… Read more »
I’d rather have a man stand by my side through thick and thin, than give me a diamond…. any sane woman would prefer that than stupid materialistic items…
Meh, I don’t want a frakking diamond ring. Overpriced overrated piece of boring crap…
All of the guys I know who have gone through the rigmarole of either depleting their savings or going into hock to uphold this feisty tradition (which feminism has done little to dislodge) have told me, with faces communicating defeat, that they were powerless to withstand the pressure of the ring. If they weren’t prepared to take responsibility for the ring they chose to purchase, how were they prepared to take on the responsibility of a lifetime commitment? My ex-husband gave me a ring that the sales guy at the jewelry store convinced him he should buy (DIAMOND!!!) even though… Read more »
You should have kept it! Tradition says its yours if you tie the knot, but to return it if you don’t.
My wife fortunately also wanted something simple. She wanted a diamond that was clear and not very big. She thought a huge rock would look silly. I doubt I’d have proposed if she was the type that felt otherwise. Now she seldom wears it, preferring the plain band and a mothers day gift with a tiny sapphire.
Frankly I’m glad for Zuckerberg that he’s not trying to keep up with the Kardashians.
Diamonds are seriously overrated. They’re glass. Or might as well be, anyway.
Any other precious gemstone has more allure and visual appeal than some crystal clear hunk of polished glass. Get a sapphire or a ruby center stone…it is much more rare. You want a really rare stone? try finding a large carat, high quality piece of Tanzanite..one of the rarest stones on earth!
Glass is made from silica and can be produced easily with not a whole lot of heat, relatively speaking. Diamonds are made from carbon that’s been put under intense heat and pressure for millions of years. But they ought to be as cheap as glass, considering carbon is freaking everywhere. Completely overrated rock.
A very on-point article. As a young, 30-something woman, who has been married once before, and intends to do so again in the near future, engagement rings have always turned me off. I didn’t expect, need or ask for an engagement ring from my first husband, and I won’t be participating in this stressful dynamic the second time around with my next. To some extent, even the actual marriage band itself destroys the freedom to simply (live the action of) commitment. (Although, I do agree with an earlier comment made stating that a simple marriage band of some sort is… Read more »
“To some extent, even the actual marriage band itself destroys the freedom to simply (live the action of) commitment.”
Agreed. I don’t wear a wedding ring. It changes nothing about how I live.
If I were rich I would never marry, I would be too afraid of being eaten alive by lawyers during divorce.
Women are definitely the ones propelling the idea that the ring means everything in the relationship. My husband and I made the decision to get married before we were “financially well off” (thank God) and so I have a very pretty but not “hunk of rock” engagement ring. I’ve had several girls look at my ring with an, “oh gosh, poor you” – which is such a sad reflection on priority and worth in our relationships now. And it makes me feel defensive of my guy, too, because it feels like a direct assault on either him, or what kind… Read more »
I completely agree with Lauren and add something. I have an idea that the ring I will get in the proposal (if I ever get one in the situation I can consider it, and not just because there is a man who thinks I’ll be perfect to show off at parties or something) will be the acid test of how deeply that man knows me and you know what? If he gets me an expensive ring I will conclude he doesn’t know me enough, and just believes I am like superficial, and an opportunist. Not really the best description from… Read more »
I honestly can’t imagine why a woman would want a man to spend money on a ring. I really can’t. $25k? I’d rather take a trip around the world, buy something that both of us could enjoy — even put it towards potential kids education. Because a ring is symbolic? heck, I’d rather have love be it’s own symbolism — give me respect, kindness, joy — acts of love — any day. I’m with you Alessia that a man who couldn’t see that it just truly didn’t matter to me would not be the right man at all. I think… Read more »
cheers to that!
Exactly, same with crazily expensive weddings. It’d make much more sense to have a small ceremony with both families and a few close friends and save the remainder towards something you actually need, like a mortgage or a family car.
I want my wedding to be open to anyone so it will probably be rather expensive but I see the point. If done just to show off you have the money (or pretend you have the money you show off) it just makes the whole marriage thing lose value in my opinion. Whether it is the engagement ring, the wedding band or the ceremony and party.
my husband (20) and i (23) got married eight months ago, and neither of us got rings until october and november, respectively. both cost about $300. we were engaged since july. i’d much rather be married than have a fancy ring, and he felt the same way. it just seems really impractical compared to other needs. all i want is something to send a message to other guys who might hit on me.
Now that’s equality. Her ring costs no more or less than his.
Speaking as someone who has been married for almost a decade and has no ring, I couldn’t care less about the damn things. My husband is leaving for Afghanistan for his job in a few months, and we may buy some plain bands before then, but diamonds are seriously overrated IMO. I think it’s all part of the insanity surrounding wedding culture (and I say this with experience as I am a wedding photographer). Some people just get carried away with all the bells and whistles and it becomes more about putting on a show and keeping up with the… Read more »
Chuck: Too easy. I used Craigslist to buy my wife’s ring at a 40% discount from “retail”. Since reading Stephen Jay Gould’s piece on the diamond cartel, I didn’t want to give “those” jackals any piece of my hard earned cash, but I also understood the need to keep/save face amongst our friends. I settled on a ring just under a carat with silver band for $2000. Appraised by the same jackals for $3900, I was happy. Do NOT use the two month’s salary (or even 6 weeks salary) as your benchmark; buy a nice ring and remember; you can… Read more »