The dudes at Fox News may say they’re defending masculinity with their claims that society will fall apart if women out-earn men, but truth is that they think men are inflexible beasts.
The Pew Research Center has released new data indicating that in 40% of American households with children, the woman is the primary breadwinner.
That’s pretty big news to get a handle on, as it shows a major shift in our family structure. But the fellas over at Fox News seem to think that this data is more than just a representation of the ways in which the poor economy has affected men, or the ways in which the women’s movement has helped equalize pay structures. They think this is an aberration of nature. Here’s an quote from the video above, pulled by Rachel Maddow:
“I am so used to liberals telling conservatives that they are anti-science. But I mean this is — liberals who defend this and say it’s not a bad thing are very anti-science. When you look at biology, look at the natural world, the roles of a male and female in society; in other animals the male typically is the dominant role, the female is not antithesis or is not competing; it’s a complementary role.”
I generally ignore Fox News, but I’m sharing this video because I think we should be very clear about what the men in this Fox News roundtable discussion are saying about men.
First—That humans are no different from animals. The claim here is that because some species of animals feature dominant male behavior, that this is somehow a natural precedent we should be following. But by that logic, humans should be out humping everything that moves, too. Most animals are not monogamous, and they certainly don’t wait until marriage to have sex, as the Religious Right says we humans should.
Even more exciting in the world of totally normal animal behavior, while we were on our walk this morning, my dog did a few things I wouldn’t expect humans to do: He peed in six different locations on one block, marking his territory. Then he stopped to lick his own penis. For his next trick, he actually used his nose to lift the tail of another dog to smell its butt.
I know, dogs are not primates like we are… But the last time my kids and I were at the Santa Barbara Zoo, we watched one of the gorillas (a primate) squat to poo, then he picked up his poo, smelled it, and chucked it at a wall. I don’t know if this was a male or a female gorilla, but either way… not a great model for human behavior. Unsanitary at the very least.
Also, in some male-dominated animal animal populations, dominant males will sometimes kill the male offspring of their competitors. Should we do that? Should we expect that infanticide is a natural thing for men to do?
This “science” of biology they’re touting is bullshit and it’s dangerous. Animals are animals. They eat dead things off the road and chase laser pointers for hours on end. Humans are humans. We invented Penicillin, the Internet, and truffle salts.
Second—The idea that mothers being away from children to go to work will damage kids has a very strong anti-male message at its core. See, Fox News seems to think that you men are such crappy parents that you will actually harm society if you are the primary at-home parent! Talk about a vote of confidence.
Third—The dudes over at Fox News also seem to think that masculinity (and therefore society) will completely collapse without men being able to base their entire identities upon being the breadwinner. What will happen to men when women start earning more?
Certainly it’s a huge adjustment for both society and for individual families. We can’t pretend we are immune to any side effects of the upheaval of the Nuclear Family. The tradition of the dad going to work, the mom staying home to clean up, cook and care for the children is generations old at this point. But to think that women have been able to adjust to the workplace with relative ease, but that men can’t adjust to a role as secondary breadwinner or at-home dad is complete crap that sells men short, and as Hugo Schwyzer wrote a while back, it promotes the myth that men are inflexible and can only base their value upon how much money they can earn.
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My reality is this—the at-home dads in my life are generally as happy as, or even happier than, the at-home moms I know.
I also know this—the dads I know who are secondary breadwinners have found their role to be somewhat freeing. One dad was able to stop working a job he hated, and start a writing career that is flourishing. Another dad in my circle of friends was able to stop freelance writing and try his hand at directing commercials and videos. He’s building a new career from the ground up, around the hours his kids are in school. On top of that, he gets to be there most days to help the kids with homework and coach their sports teams. He has never been happier.
I sat down and thought about all the families I know where the wife earns more, and in each one there seems to be a strong marriage, tons of love, and really happy kids. In some of those families the dads stay home with the kids and volunteer at school, in others they have jobs they love like police officers, firefighters or teachers.
While this evidence is anecdotal, not “hard science” like the boys up at Fox News have, I think its high time we give men the credit they deserve. They are just as capable of being excellent parents as women are. They are just as able to be flexible and adaptable as women are. They have dreams they want to pursue outside of just making money. Having a wife who bears some or all of the financial responsibility of the home can make that possible.
The truth is that the guys in the video above are not standing up for men and masculinity. In fact, in clinging to outdated gender roles in the home, they are selling men short and insulting all of the men who have chosen to do something different than their fathers’ and grandfathers’ generations did. Beyond that, they are limiting the potential of future generations of men who may want to break out of the traditional American family structure.
What do you think of the new data on working parents and the changing role of primary provider?
Are you in a family where the female is the primary breadwinner? How has that affected your life?
What model of family do you hope your sons will grow up to emulate?
@KatyD … Like you, we had what appeared to be the ideal family. The difference is that what it appeared and what it was behind closed doors was the same. A working dad, a stay at home mom and 7 kids. Two major losses early in my life, which could have negatively impacted us resulted in the family becoming closer. Losing two siblings is bad enough for the kids but for the parents, it’s devastating. I have nothing but good memories. Memories which included family vacations, mom being home when we got home, cooked dinners every day where we all… Read more »
Anyone have a link to the actual study? All I can find is the BS about the commenters.
I am not sure I understand this premise at all. Are some really saying that the notion that men are simple minded, knuckle dragging monkeys, unable and unwilling bring to bear the skills necessary to take care of a child was invented by Fox News?! For real?!
This is as much a leftist feminist idea as it is Fox News conservative belief. My God, the left does this kind of thing far too frequently. They say it’s those people from the south who are socially backward, not us! This is cleverly adulterated BS!
Just out of curiosity, would the majority of women date men whom earn less or is “marrying up” still very much apart of most women’s desires? Women earning more than men would be bad if women were not flexible enough to marry down income wise since the pool of men whom earn the same or more would be far lower and put huge competition on the few men who do earn more than the female average.
I’d like to think women are, I hope they are because I’m never going to be a big earner. I don’t really have the patience or the inclination to “climb the corporate ladder”
But, honestly, if the tidal wave of “where are the good men!?” articles you see posted around various blogs and news sites are any indication… /shrug.
Marrying down man in terms of money and status can be marrying up in terms of hotness. Or loyalty. Or love. The rising of “cougar” ( I really hate to say this, sorry ) phenomena is the proof of this. As a young guy who have dated older woman who are far richer than me in college, I have no complain about this. Although media like to paint “cougar” phenomena as a bad and disgusting things, for me its a proof that woman can love and attracted to men without seeing their wealth or status. Its a beautiful thing for… Read more »
It’s been said before and needs to be said again: a happy wife is a happy life. Is she wants to go out and win bread, let her. If she wants to stay home with the kids, let her. Just let her. Man is adaptable.
No… my wife and I will do whatever we *both* feel is in the best interest of *our* relationship and *our* family.
This whole “If momma ain’t happy…” attitude is toxic “momma” can suck it up and behave like a grown adult, which occasionally means not getting her own way in things.
Yeah, I’m a feminist and I actually don’t like the infantilizing nature of “happy wife, happy life” – implying that my husband needs to take care of me and keep me happy.
We are both capable of keeping each other happy in the relationship, but we are each responsible for our own happiness.
Zach Rosenberg wrote a piece called “Happy Spouse, Happy House” which, if you need a saying, is a better one if you ask me 😉
That works. Especially since there’s not really a good rhyme for “husband” 😛
Hi Joanna, I really like the “Happy Spouse, Happy House” theme. Even though I hold men accountable for being “guardians” of emotional safety for their partners (and other things) in their relationships, I NEVER let women off the hook for stepping up as well. I admire your values and obvious strength. “The Happy Wife, Happy Life” saying is patronizing, however, if a man needs a “mnemonic” to help him control/improve his own negative/destructive behaviors, he should use it privately. This assumes he KNOWS it doesn’t imply superiority, but simply a desire to more actively and intentionally love and respect her.… Read more »
@Steve I have brought up this point, about how SAHD’s are seen as less sexually attractive by their spouses, many, many times and the ladies who frequent GMP have had little say about this aspect of the role reversal that is so common in these circumstances. It happened to me too. I struggle to see exactly how this is the fault of the man. It seems quite clear that these women are wired to give themselves sexually to men who are more “alpha”. For me, this drop in sexually connection and non sexual intimacy greatly contributed to my marriage falling… Read more »
Hey @ogwriter, You’re not alone, dude. I know lot’s of guys who got into the SAHD situation and nobody “TOLD them that if they stay at home with the kids they are risking their sex life and marriage. It is just a fact.” You’re right. This is true for many men. Of course, this doesn’t happen to ALL SAHD’s. Why not? It’s my opinion and experience that when these things happen (and they will): “they experience a serious drop in sexual and non-sexual intimacy after a few years. Their wives become disrespectful, condescending, bossy, and judgmental while he loses a… Read more »
@Steve I get where you are coming from, I really do. Nonetheless, I employ a much more effective straight ahead approach to dealing with such issues I don’t involve myself intimately with unreflective, un-evolved women. As you noted, not every woman behaves as the women we described; and that’s the kind of woman I want. In my opinion, she is the evolved woman. I don’t need a child, I need a woman. Also,you noted that women behave similarly in other context too. I feel like I have an obligation to teach younger wen that this kind stuff is all too… Read more »
I don’t think it’s fair (definitely not helpful) to call a woman a “child” for wanting a strong man in the household to treat her in ways that makes her feel safe, trusting, and sexually attracted. That’s just as unfair as a woman calling a man a caveman for wanting a loving, respectful woman in the household to share frequent physical affection and sexual bonding. Their desires are not coming from a place of lack of self-control, insecurity, or selfishness. Who cares if their “wiring” is evolved or intelligently designed? A person’s desires and expectations in a relationship are true… Read more »
@Steve
I don’t see what the problem is Steve. I ,unlike you, are not beholding to support a philosophy because it is my business As far I am concerned, childish behavior is just that. Adults can and do often times behave like children. I discussed this today with my girlfriend and her response was, “Why would a man stay with a woman who treated him like that?” Which is exactly my point. Certainly, no one is telling you that you can’t approach this situation as you do. I reserve the same right for myself
@ogwriter, hmmm…sometimes this medium causes confusion because I’m not sure we disagree on much here. BTW, my philosophy preceded my business by a long shot. And I totally respect your experience and view on this. Anyway, let’s see if this helps any: 1. We agree that a man (and woman of course) should not accept disrespectful behavior from anyone…period. 2. I think we agree he should address it head on, insist on a better way of relating, show leadership, give her a chance, and if no success – move on with his life. 3. We may disagree on how LONG… Read more »
@Steve You are right in that we are essentially saying the same thing. We just have different tolerance thresholds for dealing with this behavior. I see no reason to set myself up for more psychological damage by asking someone who isn’t listening to me to hear me tell them that they are behaving badly.If it were a different context. I probably would be inclined to deal.. I had been depressed for years behind this kind of addled brained nonsense. The message needs to be sent that this is a widespread problem that women and men need to be aware of.… Read more »
Of course misandry should be called out whatever the source, and not be brushed under the carpet when its from the left, and used to score political points when its the right. Both the left and right promote misandry and male disposibility.
Re Bonobos, its not proven that they are non violent as the political propaganda claims, bonobos in captivity are sometimes killers like their chimp cousins and they have not yet been observed properly in the wild.
@apolitical:
Amen to that!? So often liberals use conservatives as scapegoats to cover up their own misdeeds.
The happiest family I know consists of a woman who works full-time outside the home as an optometrist, while her husband is a “stay-at-home-dad” who is primary caregiver to their five-year-old twins (he does have his own part-time business giving guitar lessons.) The kids are not only surviving, but thriving; they finished at the top of their kindergarten class and are ahead of grade level in most subjects. I grew up in the sort of “traditional” family that the Fox pundits would have all of us grow up in, it seems; stay-at-home Mom, breadwinner Dad. From the outside, we were… Read more »
@KatyD;
I am not going to go into all of the really crappy treatment I and many other SAHD’s have received from women and others, but one probably shouldn’t extrapolate too much from the one experience you reference.
“We watched one of the gorillas (a primate) squat to poo, then he picked up his poo, smelled it, and chucked it at a wall.” You just summed up Fox News.
@Duffer:
I am trying to figure howl liberal news media is any better than the very clever knuckle heads at Fox News? Generally speaking American news media sucks, big time. Both conservative and liberal news media suffers from an absence of integrity.
I hope people listen and watch the clip and not just rely on the commentary. I’m gonna say it. I’m one of those conservatives that’s lived enough years to see and feel the affects of what’s been happening. It’s not a man verses women thing, it’s what the stats show to have worked well in our society and what is not working now. You’re screaming about the commentators, what I would like you to do is address the study they were referencing. Personally, I’m tired of being shamed for being a conservative and a so called “religious fanatic.” I’m a… Read more »
Tom, watch Megyn Kelly straighten out the facts for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vKPXo0ytRZM#!
Well that video pissed me off. The “oh dominant one,” comment was the most patronising piece of ass-hattery. The whole time Lou and the other bloke were just trying not to laugh…or they were outright laughing at her. Because it’s SO FUNNY when a woman is offended at something you said. Don’t need to take that shit seriously at all.
Oh those two were the WORST. They should be ashamed of themselves. But how awesome is she? I used to go to the gym at the local Christian college, and they always had Fox News on and it was terrible and I grew to really despise Megyn Kelly but after this I am REALLY respecting her.
Though I worry for her job now…
@Joanna:
Megan Kelly has sat on her ass for years now and said nothing to the contrary or to dissuade the Fox News propaganda machine from it’s biases. So, she stands up one time and now she is worthy of respect. Maybe for some, but I think the respect bar is wwwayyy too low.
I’ve never been a fan of Megyn Kelly prior this. I have to give her real credit for standing up for females and even using gay parents as part of her supporting argument. Bravo, Megyn!
@Tom: What’s up Tom! I am neither a conservative nor liberal nor independent and I am seriously thinking about giving up my Catholic religion. However, you make some valid points that are worthy of discussing. I think both liberals and conservatives have failed the family. But the truth is family has never been central to the American government anyway. The Constitution wasn’t written as a document that favors family, the Constitution favors business interests and the military,always has.
@ogwriter …. What you said reminded me of what Cardinal George of Chicago once said. The media asked him, when he was appointed his position, if he was conservative or liberal. He said he’s neither, he’s Catholic. It’s the secular world that I’ve buckled and is more then likely the reason why I see myself as a “conservative.” So I guess what I am is Catholic which includes everything that goes with being Catholic. I will restrain from elaborating any further in that I don’t care to read or get into a debate which more then often becomes a platform… Read more »
The comments these buffoons made are simply shameful. Implicit in their twisted and false logic is that a woman is less than a man as human being. If a wife is offered a job that pays more than the husband, she is to refuse it! So, her dreams and aspirations are not as valuable is their argument. What is really absurd is it is men who have made the decisions to send other men’s jobs to China etc under the mantra of “free trade.” But, somehow women are responsible for this. Since 1980, I was a registered Republican. Though I… Read more »
Jules, you’re smart look past the hype and double talk. Step back from these political issues. This is not a man vs woman issue or a Christian vs Non Chritsian issue…although piss you off party has been running it that way. These issues are Family Rights vs Government Rights. (kind of like States Rights vs Fed Rights) The piss you off party failed to protect family rights and caved in with too many govt subsidized family programs. Government has been subsidizing family in increasing doses and edging out men. Basically making men and family obsolete. With every entitlement, bullying law,… Read more »
Most hysteria-based news coverage could be re-posted here. I hope that this doesn’t become a trend, I would cause a dent from all of the face-palming that would result.
We covered this because sometimes there is an event in mainstream media that directly impacts men. This is one of them. We’re not going to ignore it simply because it’s based on hysteria. Rather, we need to call out these people who want to make men look like incapable numbskulls.
Joanna, Sometimes they’re portayed as idiots? How about like most of time, actually lately they’re portrayed as rapists and domestic abusers and bullies. Our men are under the microscope, we put them there. I’ve been pushing into senators inboxes…both left and right, out of state and in my state. I encourage others to start holding these legislators and media accountable. Thanks for posting this.
Joanna, good catch on this news feed! The media is framing this wrong. They are pitting men and women against each other and making family a Left and Right, right and wrong issue. It’s a faulty framework and it creates hype and hysteria…polarizes us. If we frame these issues in terms of Family vs Government, we’ll get over this hump. How much responsiblity do we want to give to the government to raise our kids and dictate family law and how much personal responsiblity do families have in raising our kids? Is it time to get the government and public… Read more »
I totally agree with your analysis of the bogus interpretations of “biology” that Fox News is throwing around here. However, I think this report is concerning in certain ways that have little to do with society’s moral fabric tearing asunder and more to do with fundamental wealth inequality. The impression I get from reading most responses to this 40% figure is that the Leave It to Beaver family has changed and women now work outside the home in large numbers and often are so successful at it that they out-earn their male partners. If that were all this story was… Read more »
Nic, I think you’re totally right and I’m grateful that you expanded upon that point. It would ahve been too much for me to get into in this post, as it’s a whole different discussion. When we start opening this conversation up to be about the affects of single mother households, things get very, very complicated. There’s a delicate balance to be struck between emphasizing the importance of fathers in kids’ lives, and minimizing the skills and ability of women to parent on their own or in two-mom families. And there are, then, implications that single-father families are missing something… Read more »
Yes, these are complex issues for sure. To clarify though I’m not trying to insinuate that single motherhood is the CAUSE of poverty (there is however an undeniable statistical correlation between the two). My point is simply that we should not be head over heels about these numbers because of the fact that they are suggestive of increasing wealth inequality. To put it another way, the numbers are just as of indicative of (if not more indicative of) a rise in poverty among the lower classes in the United States as they are indicative of a rise in women’s economic… Read more »
Maybe it’s time for Fox News and others to look at the possibility that men have more value than just their paychecks.
Bear in mind that there are lots of women out there, especially conservative women like the women in my family, who love Fox News. This isn’t just pandering to a particular male demographic.There’s a larger multi-gender ideology out there.
I absolutely LOVE the “but biology” argument because the simplest counter argument to that is “but bonobos.” Polyamorous, bisexual primates who have sexual interactions for basically every form of interaction: greeting, problem solving, relationship forming…and oh yeah, procreation too sometimes. Oh, also a complex social system in which the females are basically in control in a lot of ways. Also they’re less prone to violence than a lot of other primates. So, yeah…24/7 lady orgy…let’s model human behaviour off of that. lol. I don’t really have much else to add. I just saw an opportunity to mention bonobos and had… Read more »
BONOBOS, baby.
Joanna, have you had an opportunity to read the book “Sex at Dawn?” It’s premise is to look at sex and gender roles prior to agriculture, and compares us to bonobos within those social morays. COMPLETELY FASCINATING. What is almost as equally fascinating is that (most likely) to a man, these “gentlemen” (and I use that word very sarcastically) do not believe in evolution, but now conveniently attempt to use science to prove their laments. I suppose they’d like to have their cake and eat it too….as long as a woman is baking it, serving it and cleaning up for… Read more »
I’ll have to check it out!
A great example because they are genetically so close to humans. I can’t really top that, except to say that there are plenty of examples in the animal kingdom of males definitely NOT being the dominant sex. Like, all those spider species in which the female is 5-6 times as big as the male, and the female eats the male after mating with him. Yikes! Men, maybe we shouldn’t look to the animal kingdom for role models…. But anyway, if social conservatives are now prepared to accept the theory of natural selection after all, then we can now have a… Read more »
I know, right. Also…SEAHORSES! The males gestate the fertilised eggs and then are the primary care-givers…well, in as much as seahorses care-give at all.
omg, totally going to be my next tattoo. A seahorse on one arm and a bonobo on the other. 😉
Everyone is forgetting a key fact here. WE ARE HUMANS and can’t model our behaviour so much off of every type of animal just as dogs n cats differ. Humans have unique behaviours, a mix of instinct and nurture.