Before we judge Joe Paterno, Rick Morris writes, we need to look at ourselves.
I must express my disgust: Joe Paterno was told of a child being sexually assaulted, and did nothing other than mention it to his boss? “Hey Tim, working hard or hardly working? Yeah, great weekend, great weekend. Oh, by the way, totally not a big deal, but Jer raped a kid in the showers? Haha totally weird right? Anyway see ya later.” It’s appalling, foul, and reprehensible that anyone should allow someone to get away with a crime of that magnitude. It boggles the imagination that this sort of crime might just get an eye-roll and a quiet aside to the boss. I remain stupefied that, in the face of a (presumably distraught) witness reporting the rape of a child, Paterno did not (at the very least) call the police himself.
It seems almost certain to me that Paterno heard what happened, was overwhelmed by the sheer vileness of it, and tried to pass responsibility off to someone else to make it right. I think that, unless Paterno is truly an evil man himself, he accidentally looked evil in the eye and looked away in shock. In other words, Paterno was a coward. (Consider the word “coward,” in this piece, to stand in for “one who fails to do what is right out of fear.)
But.
While the pitchforks are nice and sharp and the torches are nice and bright, perhaps we ought to pause the vituperation for a moment—just a moment, I promise—and take a look at ourselves. I think that some of us have probably failed in our own obligations to work against sexual violence in our communities. Joe Paterno failed in circumstances in which hopefully none of us would fail, and so we feel comfortable piling on in judgment. Harsh condemnation is well-deserved here. Perhaps we can use this incident for more than reassurance that our values remain intact, though.
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While there will undoubtedly be calls for some sort of knee-jerk legislation (because that’s what Americans do when we’re upset), I wonder how many people leaping to condemnation have ever looked the other way or stayed quiet when they saw racism, sexism, or the other plagues of our society. I don’t wonder this because I think that I think Paterno is being judged too harshly. I wonder this because I think we should all wonder this from time to time, and now seems as good a time as any to reflect on how we ourselves have failed to protect the least of these.
I have enough confidence in the general goodness of my fellow men that I believe no one here would deliberately leave a child in the hands of a pedophile, or tolerate a friend’s sexual violence against a child. Enough men have written eloquently on here about their own experience of sexual abuse that I believe that we here universally detest such abuse in all its forms.
With shame, though, I will tell a story of my own failure. A man I did not know well was at a party hosted by men I did know well. Talking about a woman currently at the party, he mentioned that in the morning he’d tried to have sex with her and she’d said she didn’t want to. He had sex with her anyway, he said, concluding, “So, basically, it was rape.” He then laughed, and another man at the party literally high-fived him.
I stared. I knew I should say something. But to my great shame, I said nothing. I simply walked out of the room with a friend who was similarly disturbed by what he’d heard. Is it possible that this woman really didn’t experience this as rape, and that this guy (her boyfriend, to clarify) had simply read her correctly? I suppose. Is it possible that, no matter what I said, it would have changed nothing about this guy’s beliefs? I think his enduring misogyny is quite probable, and I suppose that this uncertainty of the correct course—combined with relative certainty that any words of mine would be ineffective in reforming his views of women—probably did nothing to spur me to action.
But it seems to me, now, as I squirm while writing this and hope against hope that my friends who read this will not think too much less of me, that saying something—anything—would have made it clear that I, at least, will not abide such behavior. It would have removed a safe space for such attitudes to go unchallenged. I failed.
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Paterno’s behavior was reprehensible because it was so clear what he should have done: informed the police, encouraged the witness to do the same, then called the police. I have no doubt that I would have handled such a situation much more aggressively than Paterno did (because I have). But in the equally-important, banal sort of evil that I’ve just discussed, I had a much harder time trying to act. I don’t think fear would have stopped me had I been sure of the correct course, but fear (of what? I don’t know either) unmanned me to the point that I didn’t try hard enough to find that course quickly.
I think about this incident every single day, wishing I had done differently. I try now to confront every troubling attitude I see expressed—hoping, I suppose, that a chance at redemption will present itself. To everyone: I’m sorry.
The question I would ask, then, is this: have you ever failed to act? What would you have done differently, had you been in my shoes? I think these are things to think about, and I hope that by doing so we can prepare ourselves to act righteously in moments of doubt.
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The GMP on Penn State:
We Are?
Paterno and Pedestals, Julie Gillis
When the Game Becomes Religion, Gary Percesepe
Male Lust Arrives in Happy Valley, Tom Matlack
Destroying a Young Boy’s Soul, Ken Solin
Power Is at the Core of Sexual Harassment, Mervyn Kaufman
The Tragic Lionization of Joe Paterno, Tom Ley
Men, Monsters, and the Media, Nicole Johnson
Loyalty and Responsibility at Penn State, Andrew Smiler
Jerry Sandusky and Penn State: A Familiar Story, Sophia Sadinsky
Beware the Legacy You Are Protecting: Winning Isn’t Everything, Eli Kaplan
Institutional Injustice: Why Rooting For Universities Breeds Immorality, Aaron Gordon
Sandusky-ed, Tim Green
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—Photo AP
About Rick Morris
The Legislation already exists – The Jeanne Clery Disclosure of Campus Security Policy and Campus Crime Statistics Act or Clery Act is a federal statute codified at 20 U.S.C. § 1092(f).
The Clery Act, signed in 1990, was originally known as the Crime Awareness and Campus Security Act.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode20/usc_sec_20_00001092—-000-.html
Jeanne Ann Clery, raped and murdered in 1986. The University authorities were aware that students hadn’t been told about 38 known violent crimes on the Lehigh campus in the three years before her murder.
Virginia Tech and Eastern Michigan have already been dealt with for breaches of Clery – and there is no doubt that Penn State will get done!
Excuses can be made when an issue arises for the first time and there is no legislation. The problem here is that all the Homework predates the events. There is also not just one case reported to Penn State Authorities followed by “Moral Turpitude” and Maladministration.
1998 Mother reporting concerns as to conduct in the Locker Rooms and SHOWERS and there is a Department of Public Welfare investigation. Penn State were fully aware of this and took part. A thirty page on-campus police report.
2000 The Janitors are reporting issues and observed conduct in Locker rooms and SHOWERS to relevant authorities – and nothing happens. Grand Jury records indicate it was not reported – other records show it was.
2002 Staff are reporting issues and observed conduct IN the locker room and SHOWERS to campus Authorities – and they took away his locker room key. They also apparently failed to take notes and records of what was said and reported.
They took away the locker room key and failed to find the victim and check if the locker room was the only venue for rape. Three slips in the SHOWERS would have any institution obliged to consider the health and safety of anyone.
One person reports locker room anal rape against a child and the Penn State Administration recall horse play? Not very professional. One wonders if they have ever heard that No means No?
It seems at that time the step of allowing Campus Police to be notified was not taken – so that a 30 page report could be dusted off and considered – and interestingly one of the people in the loop was responsible for Campus Police and was AWARE of that 30 page report.
Odd how they failed to make the links and act to protect?
Odd how they failed to follow the Legal Rule Book laid down over 10 years earlier?
Odd how it was kept internal when all would have known that they were obliged to bring in external agencies and oversight?
Odd how some wish to indicate that as certain people may have lacked expertise in the field of child rape, failures may be excusable. That one does not hold water when you consider the PSU internal expertise in dealing with the legal and practical issues of support for victims. Just look up the Penn State rape support system – Division Of Student Affairs – and their public guidelines which can be found dating back to 2001. The guidelines cover it all from First Response to medical and emotional support and what the law says and requires. Mandatory reading for all employees.
Odd too how in 1999 a certain coach just left the main field and started to coach kids. A man of stature and reputation is usually sought after, and many wonder why he was not picked up by other teams even in the NFL. There must have been esquires about further employment and even references sought – even if it was just a phone call asking for a character reference.
Odd how people who were aware of concerns as to child safety allowed the suspect to use their facilities to Coach Kids after he retired. It would seem that some where of the view that they could control anything.
That was a four year window and beyond – but it seems that some have very short memories and badly kept records. Other’s are concerned that it was not just memories and records but deliberate failure to recall and record.
Bad management by The Old Boy Network and from people who lacked the most basic of experience in dealing with sexual predation. A Certain coach had been caught and supposedly embarrassed into behaving – that would be 1998/9. So why no suspicion when it comes up again and again in The SHOWERS?
Who was protecting Who?
Maybe it was the issue of Football?
Many Sports Fan know the rule book of Three Strikes and You’re Out!
That’s why it’s Federal Law for all students and “Employees” to be told what to report, to who and when. People followed those rules and certain levels of administration fell down.
Maybe there is an issue that Faculty Members just can’t read? Maybe they believe the Rule Book aint for them?
Maybe some have a Moral Compass that failed to show the correct direction due to the supposed magnetism of the institution and figures who were built up to demigod proportions?
Or, is it that when it comes to scandal people in administrative positions, dealing with Figures and Finance, are definitely the worst people to be considered suitable for even the most basic of pastoral care?
Bottom Line Dollar tends to cloud judgment. It’s Liability over Morality.
Getting a team player to take one for the team is understandable – leaving a ten year old to take one in the shower is not!
Oh what a challenging and truthful post.
I can’t look it up right now, but doesn’t this response, the stare of shock and quick decision to do nothing, have something to do with how humans relate to group norms? That cognitive dissonance I wrote about maybe? There is a fast decision made in the brains of members of the group-go against the dynamic and be outcast? Go along with it silently and keep the peace.
I feel pretty certain we’ve all had some of those in our lives, from the very very subtle-someone teasing someone about something in a mean way…all the way up to ignoring evidence of a crime. The stakes grew higher and higher in this case with money, tv sponsorships, donors and national rankings on the line.
It takes courage to speak up. How do we train that muscle?
“How do we train that muscle?”.
PSU Motto – Leges sine moribus vanae – Laws without morals are in vain.
Seems that back to a few basics would be a start.
Seriously, your point is haven’t we all looked the other way at times? This actually coincides with my recent article on here “Don’t be a guy”. When that guy at the party basically admitted raping that girl, and the response was either high fiving, or silence, you were all being “guys”. You were all complicit in your slience, even if you felt it was wrong. I would have given that guy a ton of grief, and might have gone to the police with what I heard.
That is called being a man. That is called standing up for your morals and what you believe is right. OF course, this is the hard path. This is the path that leads you to not fitting in with the “guys”. This does not make you popular. I was in the exact same situation at my fraternity in college, except I saw the guy taking the barely concious girl to his room. I knew what he had in mind. I took her away from him, took her to her friends and made sure she got home. This did not make me the most popular brother, I got a ton of crap for it, had stuff stolen from me, and was fearful for my safety at times as a result. But now, years later I feel really good about my decision. I can sleep well at night.
The reason, in my opinion, that Paterno did nothing was because he did not want to upset “the program”, because in that world, that is all that matters. Don’t rock the boat, don’t mess with the system. Hush things up, keep things going to lead to a winning season. People in the professional sports world, and I include College basketball and football here, feel that they can operate to a different standard then the rest of us.
If you want to be a man, you need to act like one. You need to stand up for the downtrodden, you need to speak up when you see wrongs, and you need to have the courage of your convictions in the face of (at times) overwhelming opposition. Nothing good, or write necessarily comes easily.
My point wasn’t suggesting that we all have so we shouldn’t judge Paterno; I think the sub-head might have been a little misleading. Only that many men are more complicit in this sort of thing than they’d like to admit, and that we should take this chance to examine ourselves. You’ve done well, and I admire you for that. But my own experience leads me to believe that I’m probably not the only guy on here who’s frozen when he wasn’t sure what to do.
Michael-
First of all, I commend you for your level-headedness in rescuing that woman from sexual assault. Being a young man in a fraternal, college atmosphere is sadly not conducive for bystander intervention. Thank you.
That being said, I don’t agree with your statements “That is called being a man… if you want to be a man, you need to act like one.” What does this topic have to do with being a man? Rather, the issue is entrenched in the actions – or lack thereof — caused by empathetic human responses to dangerous or negative situations; this has nothing to do with gender or sexuality. If a woman were to step in similarly, would you call her a “man” or appreciate that she wasn’t a “guy?”
Rich made a mistake, and has braved that mistake across web by sharing a very common human reaction. I warn you against challenging his masculinity, which is insulting to both women and men. Rather, informing readers about how you maintained a presence of mind within that male-dominated environment would prove much more helpful and something I would greatly appreciate. Though I enjoy a rare hero’s story, I would much more enjoy the hero’s story to be the norm.
Rick is asking for an examination of male dynamics. Based on your experience, you should be able to provide tools for helping young men to behave appropriately. What are they? So far, all I can glean from your story is “act like a man.”
Simple, have a moral compass and stick to it. Don’t be afraid of speaking out when you see a wrong, even if it means you may be ostracized as a result.
I stand up for the downtrodden who got their by no fault of their own, not the downtrodden who’ve placed themselves in a bad situation and won’t get themselves out of.
Someone who long ago accepted the harsh treatment they received and would not change their situation if they had the chance does not get my sympathy or help.
The world is not black and white. People do make mistakes, and that is no reason to deal with them severely. People should be given a second chance. Now if that girl I saved, continued to go to frat houses and got drunk and was eventually taken advantage of, that was her bad decision. However, I saw a wrong being committed and I took action. I, and I alone, have to live with my decisions.
“… if they had the chance….” ? When it comes to abuse, so many have no chance unless others listen. Looking down on the victim all too often makes you complicit.
The abused do not ask to be abused! Abusers ask all around them to give them credence and ongoing permission, because they abuse people’s perceptions and get them to turn a blind eye.
Fiat justitia ruat caelum – “Let justice be done though the heavens fall.”
Sometimes mistakes can be avoided and sometimes people don’t deserve second chances.
That kid who gets builled will continue to get builled until they stand up for themselves, and that woman with a history of abusive mates will continue to attract them until she wants it to end.
What i’m saying is just because you help someone doesn’t mean they’ll heed your warnings or take steps to make sure they’re not in that situation again.
So, then by your reasoning, you should just not bother helping them in the first place? What if the kid getting bullied also gets bullied by his parents at home, or does not have a role model to teach him how to stand up for himself? Is he just getting what he deserves then? Can you imagine getting picked on at school all day, and then coming home to an abusive parent? or even a non involved parent who ignores you?
And the woman with a history of abusive mates, what if she has been raped and victimized by men since she was young? What if she is not even aware of where her bad decisions are originating from? By your reasoning she should just figure it out and fix herself then?
You unfortunately have a very narrow world view, and what is sad is that is not uncommon in our society.
It’s not as uncommon a view as you think!
Some see a person in a situation and just judge it as the person’s nature.
Other’s grasp that nurture and environment plays a significant part.
I found it interesting reading the account of a Judge who was sitting in a case involving the most most prolific pedophile ever prosecuted in Brittan. The extent of the abuse is still not clear, but is recognized as over 1000 children over a 40 year period. Figures as high as 3500 children are mentioned. He got away with so much because he was a pillar of the community – rich – and he targeted kids who were already marginalized by society. He was supposedly giving kids a chance to change their ways and their natures. The abuser’s name was William Goad. He even took trips to The USA and abused on holiday.
The judge said how he had to stop himself all the time during the trial. He was faced with so many familiar faces – they had been in the Court so many times. But now they were all witnesses for the prosecution and NOT the accused. He has seen some faces over 20 times before.
The judge humbly stated he had to re-evaluate just how much damage was done to so many by just one man. Goad was not only the most prolific pedophile ever prosecuted, he was the center of a major pedophile ring on a national and international basis.
The Judge also recognized just how many had been ill served by considering it was their nature and not due to the hell they had miraculously survived – as best they could! It was featured on a TV program detailing the whole case. The Judge’s shocked, confused and even dazed expression as he spoke was more eloquent than anything else.
AS he said “The consequences of child abuse are as a clear scar in the mind as a scar on the side of the face. It’s there forever. ”
The Judge also praised one police officer who had made sure that Goad was brought to trail. She had been told by so many people she arrested the name of William Goad, and received so many comments and reports from career criminals – well the evidence was just to great to ignore. Then she had to fight with senior offices to be allowed to investigate. They saw no value in spending time investigating the reports of supposed criminal types. It took years. And in the end Goad was jailed.
The police investigation is still ongoing after 15 years. Or 40 years if you consider that he was investigated back in the 1970′s and not properly charged. He just carried on.
Some will watch the film “Good Will Hunting” and see it as a paradigm for the way people should overcome past adversity in childhood. They do not grasp that it is a fantasy – and for every Will Hunting there are so many more who don’t get access to a script editor who can tidy up their life for mass consumption.
For some getting up out of the gutter is more than they can do. That is, until at least one person allows then to stay there whilst they shed real tears for the damage that has happened to them – instead of looking down and saying it is their nature to have been thrown there by others who saw them as less than human.
That kid needs to learn to stand up for himself.
You’ve only removed the bully presently there, when he’s going to continue to be bullied to adulthood.
The abused woman needs to seek help with more than just removing the abusive mate from her life, she needs help to change herself.
These people are not helpless.
No william, in many ways they are helpless. You seem to come from a solid foundation that has molded your persona into one of strength. Not everyone has that.
Bullies are skilled at picking out the vulnerable in a crowd. Point your finger at bullies – they suffer from a different type of insecurity and need guidance. Bullies need to leave the weak alone so the downtrodden can gain inner strength – they live day by day; each day is a day for hope. ZERO tolerance for bullies.
Abused victims suffer different stages of abuse: some just beginning to be abused, while others are stuck; some trying to get out, some falling back to same pattern (similar to addictions) …but most hope to survive, recover and move on – there is no time-frame for this, as no two individuals or circumstances are the same.
Unlike drug or alcohol addictions (abused victims may also abuse these), victims of abuse, whether of violence, sexual, or rape – they often are told it is their fault – they asked for it; they are to be blamed, they deserve what they got by the perpetrators. They are psychologically manipulated, sometimes to the point where they believe everything that’s told to them or they give up being defensive – especially if they’re outnumbered (cyber-bullying anyone?).
There’s no point in victim-blaming – because that excuses the actions of the bully/perpetrators; if so we might as well excuse and free all the criminals in prison and condone their actions! (They probably started out as bullies first one way or another).
Excellent, honest, moving and painful piece.
What you are writing about is the role of the bystander. Much current research on bullying now focuses on how to educate onlookers about their responsibility when they witness bullying. And who do bullies learn their behavior from? Often, from adults, especially ones they hold in high regard. If Sandusky was the bully, everyone else who knew about his atrocities were bystanders, and they all had culpability.
Yes, many of us, myself included, have looked the other way. I admire you for writing about your experience. It is instructive for all of us. I am convinced that virtually everyone finds themselves in the role of bystander multiple times throughout life–sometimes amidst serious matters, sometimes less so–and so we need to teach children when they are young that it is not ok to just stand by.
Thank you for a heartfelt piece.
These people attract bullies.
No one bullies the person who’s ready to fight at the smallest sign of disrepect, They bully the person who’s not going to retaliate.
These people will always be victimized.
William – You seem to have a narrow view of the subject and limited grasp of the full nature of those who Bully.
You link Bullying to open displays of what you see as “Disrespect”. To see that as the only yard stick is to miss virtually all of the area covered by the subject. There are also Bullies, such as Serial Bullies, who adapt their behavior and could well be bullying you with soft and gentle words, a smiling face and everyone present believing you are the bully! Try and call it Disrespect and you will have your sanity questioned by many who are watching.
Just try telling them that they are Disrespecting You. And then get ready for the 1) Denial in all forms, including supposed compassion for your confused state 2) Retaliation with a silken tongue and a smile to all around, and then 3) Feigned Victimization of them by you.
Have a look at this resource and be prepared to have your eyes opened – http://www.bullyonline.org
Bullies target because they can – not because other’s have invited them to! It’s the Bully who has issues, and it’s very old school thinking to believe that the victim is at fault and responsible for another persons conduct. Hell – if that was true Child Abuse Victims should stand trial for inviting their own abuse. The abuser has no responsibility.
What i meant was that a bully isn’t going to attempt to bully someone who going to strike back.
Bullies target specific people, they target someone who’s not going to retaliate.
They don’t pick their victims at random.
Teach victims of bullying to stand up for themselves and the bullying stops.
William: Again your view of Bullying and how Bullies Operate is limited. It’s very old school. I think you are well intentioned in your views and comments, but they are limited. The term Bully is steeped in stereotypes and clichés which lead many to believe they know Bullies and Bullying. It also sets up a limited view of scale that blinds people.
It is said for Bullying to operate there is necessarily including a certain chronic inadequate response on the part of the target. That leads many to believe that an adequate response will stop the bully – a very simplistic view.
Bullying is relational aggression, and it depends on an actual or real disparity of power. You have to address the power before considering any form of adequate response. If you don’t understand how Power is being used your response will all too often be most inadequate and only give the Bully more power and opportunity.
The Bully fears someone striking back? Not True. Many Bullies will welcome it because it reveals emotions such as anger that increase the opportunity for manipulation and more bullying. Bullies like it when the target gets angry as it allows trivialization of the target, manipulation and yet more Bullying. Bullies already have power and will use exposed anger as a route to mockery – or even worse.
Bullies don’t only, as you say, target specific people – they can target whole groups, many people simultaneously. There are many cases when the person or even group that is seen as the perpetrators of Bullying are just puppets or lieutenants to a master bully who is manipulating all parties. Such people stay hidden and quiet, and have a persona that is anything other than a Stereotypical or Cliché Bully.
Have you ever had to deal with a Bully Target who is convinced that the Bully is the best person on the planet – the salt of the earth? Some people can actually believe they are not subject to bullying when it is absolutely clear to others that it is happening.
I prefer to approach the issue from the stand point of the Bullies Conduct, how they will get inside people’s heads and use the psychology of the bully and use known patterns to abuse. Interpersonal abuse/aggression/Bullying is a big issue – and calling a bully a bully can often shut down perception and reporting of other issues that are hidden behind the short hand of Bully and Bullied. Hey! We got a label and that is enough – we know Bullies so lets just provide an adequate response.
Your view also fails to address potential disparity in age and experience between Bully and Target. How about the Bullying Teacher and the 8 year old child who is targeted? The whole class can be made agents of the Teacher – and yet your view makes it the responsibility of the child to stop it?
“Tell Someone”, I have heard cried, but who do you tell when you are unable to grasp the activity of the teacher, and when you tell teacher they use the information of your distress to empower yet more bullying?
I’d love to see your lesson plans for teaching the child how to deal with that dynamic and be the responsible one for stopping The Bully!
Don’t forget to consider that the child also has to deal with a whole class of other kids who are being directed by the teacher and used as agents of The Bully. How about the other teachers in the school who are made unwitting agents and even parents who hear reports from their own kids and also become agents to the Bullying? Everyone supposedly knows what a Bully is and how they work – or do they?
You may think that the example is extreme? It’s not, it’s from real world examples, and such patterns of bullying are far more common than many have been able to grasp.
You may have heard of such books as “Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go to Work”. So many think of Boardrooms and supposedly masculine or male focused work places. The Classroom is a place of work, and just as open to abuse and manipulation by a master Bully. So are the children supposed to know the signs and act to stop it? Are the kids responsible?
Healthcare settings are also a work environment. Are the patients supposed to know the signs and act to stop it? I’d love to see you teaching ill, elderly and disabled people to “stand up for themselves” so “the bullying stops”.
Ever seen One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest?
Would you like the real world examples on that subject?
If you have the stomach for it, there is detailed footage of one example on YouTube – Panorama BBC Undercover Care. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yuPvUHsx1Y
If you watch it, You will even hear some use the term Bully – and I’d love to know how that person was supposed to then deal with the conduct that lead up to them saying the word “Bully” – and how they should have then acted to Stand Up for themselves?
If you watch it, also listen for the attempts by one Lieutenant to explain away the behavior and get the reporter to accept it as normal.
Then there is Bullying in Military settings, Academia, Prisons… and so many other places too. The only way to deal with Bullies is to recognize them where ever they are, in any environment – and standing up for yourself by getting others to have oversight from an external position. There is nothing Macho is standing up to a Bully just so you can get knocked down. Macho means being wise and even admitting you are vulnerable – and even asking for help!
Frankly the only value that exists in the word Bully is as a sign post – a red flag – for immediate attention to everything that is going on when a person uses it. All too often it will be used in a way that tries to communicate distress, and the person using the word Bully finds it only as an inadequate substitute for a word they simply don’t know.
As I said, I think your perception is old school. Times and experience has moved on, and stereotypes and cliché just makes it harder to catch the Bully and then be able to support the Bullied to have freedom from Bullying – and to even have a life.
- Of course anger isn’t going to solve anything, i meant physically retaliate.
- Yes they do, they target the weak and timid.
- The Bully Target is easy to manipulate.
- I never categoried the bully and their target as being in the same age group.
- You’re talking about one kind of bulling, i’m talking about another kind.
- I know a story of bullying in prison.
A officer forced an inmate to perform oral sex on him, it took a sting operation and footage of the officer inappropriately touching the inmate for the office to get fired.
The officer had power over the inmate.
There’s always going to be someone in an important position who has power over you, there is no freedom from bullying.
That inmate can be released from prison and find himself in the same position with a police officer for fear of going back.
William you said “No one bullies the person who’s ready to fight at the smallest sign of disrepect, They bully the person who’s not going to retaliate.”
So just how should a child being subjected to an Adult Bully fight at the smallest sign of disrespect? Kick them in the shins?
How about a vulnerable adult who is being bullied by their only care giver? Spit tablets?
As I have said, I think you have a narrow focus that is Old School.
You seem to retain your focus upon the person bullied as responsible for action to make matters stop – by retaliation – which Bullies tend to be very prepared for and very good at manipulating against their target.
You mention a sting operation in prison. So just how did the prisoner get access to Video Surveillance Equipment? Did he order it on-line? Did he ask the prison staff for it? Did he make it in some workshop?
Or, was there an external agent who acted, from a position of expertise, to deal with the matter?
This is a piss-poor comparison. You compare a second-hand story at a party of a guy who was maybe tellng the truth, or maybe exaggerating, about one incident that may or may not have been real, you want to compare that with the systemic knowledge, by multiple individuals, of ongoing sexual predation of children? I’m disgusted by your presumptuousness. Please. Spare me the self-pitying, “If only I’d have said something at the cocktail party, so don’t judge Joe Paterno.” What a giant load of moral relativism. One incident does not compare to years of complicity.
Paterno, and others, knew for NINE freaking years. Nine years. How many boy’s lives were RUINED by that? I’m horrified, and if you said that to my face, I’d have to kidney punch you just for the insinuation that there’s no culpability there, and that we shouldn’t judge him for failing to act. That’s the worst sort of moral relativism I’ve ever heard. It seems like you’re projecting your own sense of (overblown) guilt onto Paterno, and, not wanting to be judged yourself, you defend him from being judged. That’s twisted.
They ought to cancel the whole football season at Penn State, but none of them have the balls.
Oh, and I”m not the only one that thinks so:
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/11/10/should-penn-state-cancel-its-season/penn-state-should-cancel-its-season
Did you actually read the first paragraph? I’m not trying to excuse Joe Paterno. As I said earlier, all I’m suggesting is that we learn from this experience. I’m suggesting that other people have done things like Paterno (perhaps not nearly as bad), and that many of us have participated in a bystander culture. I’m suggesting that instead of merely attacking Paterno (which he richly deserves), we examine ourselves. Not so we avoid judging anyone, but so we ourselves can be more righteous.
The entire country is failing. Failing boys, but especially black boys. From virtually every measurable standpoint they are the most victimized (under)class of humans.
Which of the supposed civic / human rights / equality groups give a rats ___ about boys, especially black ones to even make their victimization an issue? Which have that as even a minor platform issue? Which are lobbying Congress to do something to help these children? None. They don’t even care enough to acknowledge that there is a problem, let alone care enough to talk about it, let alone care enough to try to do something about it.
It’s like that poor little Chinese girl who kept getting hit by cars and nobody stopped to help her. They couldn’t be bothered to even notice. What is being done TO boys, especially black boys is a national failure, but the country doesn’t care enough to be bothered to even notice. They’re just black boys, afterall. We’ve got already got a black man as our President. I guess we don’t want them gettin too uppity.
What would you have done to the guy at the party who was bragging about rape? Report him to the cops in the absence of a complaint from the woman? Tell him he’s a butthead? Yeah, he is. And telling him so fixes just exactly what?
Long as we’re telling all, here, I’ve physically intervened twice in assaults on women. The guys in question wouldn’t fight me, so it went well for me. But I didn’t know that going in. I’ve also approached what looked like threatening situations and indicated an interest. The situations defused, whether because of me or not.
Telling a guy who’s claiming to have taken a woman against her will that he’s no better than a guy who would take a woman against her will doesn’t seem to have much potential to change things, nor undo what has been done.
Speaking up at a party isn’t heroic, nor is not speaking up a moral failing. It’s right up there with irrelevance.
Being prepared and willing to actually intervene when something is happening is the point.
Right, it’s someone else’s problem right? Why speak up at a party, what good will it do? You speak up because it is the right thing to do. you speak up because it sends a message. Of course you intervene if you see something happening, but you should also intervene when you hear about something happening as well. Call the guy on his crap, let him know it is not acceptable to everyone.
Richard, your points are part of what kept me from doing anything. This wasn’t simply an issue of courage for me; it was also an issue of uncertainty. I really didn’t know what exactly I could do that would change anything, and speaking up seemed like it would have a social cost while accomplishing…not sure what. Now, in retrospect, I realize that what Michael says is true and part of my sense of guilt is that at some level I think I sensed the truth of Michael’s point even if I wasn’t quite sure how to act on it then. Now, I think it would be relatively simple to go with, “What the fuck is wrong with you?” and play it by ear from there.
Linking a reported relational rape and a high five to the PSU scandal does not cut the mustard with me!
I’m an odd type and have multiple nationalities, one of which is British. I was 18 when I first came to the USA. Oddly my first port of call was Up State Pennsylvania and relatives there – and on my second night I had to deal with US Sports and Jock Culture. It was an eye opener.
High School was just finishing and I took my cousin to her Ball. I even hammed it up for the night with a real plummy British Accent and a Tux that would make James Bond envious. Such a bummer that I was underage for the martinis.
After the ball we ended up at another party, where everyone was drinking heavily – it was in full swing and I was Jet Lagged. I was sitting in the garden, letting it all wash over me, when a group of young men came along, and in the midst of the group was the Alpha Jock and his associates basked in his aura.
We chatted and joked – and he then told me that whilst I was about, If I needed a girl he would set me up- being captain of the team had it’s perks apparently. There was more banter about conquests and then he made the fateful comment that he always got what he wanted and when – and if not, some slapping about always changed their mind.
The other guys basking in the fraternity of the Alpha Jock laughed and thought it was great stuff. They failed to notice the frozen and passive look on my face. Young ladies who had been present notably made their excuses and left the immediate surroundings.
I asked Alpha Jock if he had been to England, and of course he had not. I told him that I hoped he would visit and offered to give him board and lodgings. He asked where I lived, and I told him in the country, nothing too big, just 25 bedrooms not far from Prince Charles. Of course it was not true, but with the plummy accent and his own gullibility, he took it all hook, line and sinker.
He was impressed and started to ask about local attractions and sporting opportunities, who could I introduce him too. I fibbed away and spun him a long line. His friends joined in asking if they could come visit – and I told them they were of course all welcome. Why not bring the whole team. I indicated that I had wealth from my family owning a travel company, so plane tickets for the whole team was no problem. I was bonhomie and the good host incarnate.
I was then asked what many favorite sport was – my deadpan response “Jockying”!
They mistook it for horse racing, so I made clear it was a team sport, peculiar to some but very exciting and very rough and tough – it made the NFL look like a ballet school. I was asked how to play it. I explained, with an amused grin on my face, that what was needed was one US Sports Jock with a bad attitude to ladies. They were invited to stay and then 12 good UK gentlemen would kick their arse all over the ballroom. If they admitted violence, such as slapping about, we also used Cricket Bats and used any available Balls for practice.
You could have heard a pin drop.
Whilst Alpha Jock was wondering what to say or do next, a young lady who had been listening came straight over, sat in my lap, kissed me in a most breath taking amorous fashion – and then looking straight at Alpha Jock said in the most feminine and coquettish of ways “My Hero!”. There was much laughter and cheers from other party goers.
Alpha Jock and associates were seen leaving shortly afterwards. Then the party really got going.
I was updated later by my cousin that his Alpha Jock was seen far less often and his manhood was apparently reduced quite nicely. His associates also underwent a miraculous change.
I too only heard a comment, and others thinking it was a high five one – but I did not stand down or give it a pass.
I can think of dozens of comments that could have been used under the reported circumstances as to rape and a high five – such as:
“Wow, you better not marry her, cos if you do and end up getting divorced we could all end up as witnesses – and she will get more than your trousers.”
or
“Wow if rape gets a high five, what do you get for drug dealing or embezzlement?”. Followed by a hard but open stare waiting for a suitable response – works best with a wry grin.
I think that the issue is not that you did not say anything, it’s that you have not given yourself the freedom to speak up – at the right time – and that invariable is in the moment.
Bravery and Courage are not a commodity you store up for the day they may get used. They are what you give to yourself as required, in the moment, even if you have never believed you had any right to either or they are even in you.
Right Now, The primary issue for many is that certain people evidently did not give themselves permission to manifest bravery or courage at the right moment – and that lack gave overs permission to do far worse.
Michael. Tell him he’s an asshole. Won’t change his actions. Tell him you think he’s an asshole. No problem there. But don’t think anything you say at the party would make any difference, or, conversely, that failing to say something would, in some way, not slow down his propensity. Nobody got hurt because of your failure. Knowing it’s a Bad Thing adds to the fun of bragging about it. Telling him it’s unacceptable is meaningless. He knows it.
Tell him that if you catch him at it you’ll kill him might work, though.