Why do good men have to pay for other men’s bad behavior? Hugo Schwyzer explains the answer he learned in his first Women’s Studies class.
Exactly 25 years ago, I sat both frustrated and excited through my first Women’s Studies class at Berkeley. I was one of perhaps four men in a class of 30, and I was (shock of all shocks) among the most vocal. A few weeks into the semester, I remember one morning blurting out something like the following:
Why is it that men are always guilty until proven innocent? I know there are some “bad guys” out there, but it is incredibly hurtful to me that women won’t smile at me in the hallways or on the street because they have lumped me in with all the others! I get so tired of paying the price—in terms of women’s mistrust—for other men’s failures and betrayals and bad behavior. Why can’t women see what a good guy I am?
I was 19 and lonely, but I was also eager to “get” feminism because I believed it was my duty to do so. More importantly, I believed that there was something there for me within feminism—something I could learn that would make me a happier person. But all I was feeling was guilty and angry.
My fellow students were patient; no one verbally attacked me for my outburst. But the women in the class, led by the professor, helped me to see several things I wasn’t able or willing yet to see.
First of all, the obvious point is that women’s intuition, while not entirely the stuff of myth, is not so powerful that it can automatically separate “good guys” from the bad. As they told me, no woman can walk down the street and as she passes a man, know with certainty that he isn’t a threat. Given the high incidence of rape and assault and harassment and other forms of abuse, a woman would be a fool to leave herself continually vulnerable. The old adage “Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me” applies. When a simple smile is so frequently misunderstood and construed as a sexual invitation, women generally do have to operate on the assumption that men are guilty until proven innocent.
I’ve never forgotten what I learned that day.
When I hear men complaining about women’s suspicion, I am reminded of my white friends who are bewildered and indignant when people of color point out their white privilege to them. Men who grumble about being “guilty until proven innocent” are demanding to be seen as individuals, separate from their perceived sex and the history that goes with it. That’s a tempting but unreasonable demand to make.
While “innocent until proven guilty” is an excellent guideline for courtroom proceedings, it doesn’t translate nearly as effectively into public life and relations between the sexes. When men gripe that women are suspicious of their intentions merely because they are men, they are forcing women into the role of the district attorney, the one shouldered with the burden of proving guilt. In a society where women, rather than men, are overwhelmingly the victims of harassment and assault, those who have suffered most are the ones being asked to lay aside their prior experience and knowledge and approach each new male in their lives with a blank slate, free from judgment. That’s a hell of a weight to ask women to carry, and a hell of a risk to ask them to take, again and again and again.
In our culture, where rape and harassment and abuse are so common, men have lost the right (if it ever existed) to insist that women should be able to differentiate (in a matter of seconds) between the harmless and the threatening. A man is entitled to a presumption of innocence from a jury in a courtroom, but not from his classmate with whom he tries to strike up what she ought to know is just an innocent conversation.
Is it frustrating to be viewed with suspicion merely because of one’s sex? Heck yes. (Is it frustrating to be viewed as a sexual object merely because one is young and female? Ask around.) Men ought to be angry that they need to “prove their harmlessness.” Indeed, they ought to be enraged! But our anger is rightly directed not at women who have been the victims (individually and collectively) of predatory males, but at those men who have “poisoned the well” for everyone else. Rather than demand that women “smile more” or “trust more” or “just know that I’m a good guy,” men need to channel their frustration at being “pre-judged” into a commitment to end what it is that causes women’s suspicion in the first place.
Holding other men accountable, challenging sexist and objectifying language and behavior in yourself and in other males (whether or not women are around) is the single most effective thing men can do to change the culture of “guilty until proven innocent.” Rape, assault, and harassment are allowed to flourish not merely through the actions of a few “bad apples,” but through the unwillingness of the “nice guys” to challenge other men. Silence is, in practical terms, tacit consent and approval.
There’s more to being a “good guy” than not raping women. Good guys hold themselves and other men accountable, in public and in private. That’s a high standard to meet, particularly for the young. But it’s only by meeting that standard that men can help to change the culture. And until we do that, our feelings of guilt will not be entirely undeserved.
—Photo aeneastudio/Flickr
All men are alike. They all come under one or more categories of males that contribute as a whole to not just rape, but any type of abuse towards women. Any male can think, talk or act like a rapist but still not act on it, not for the right reasons but so they don’t get in trouble. It still means they want to do it though, so this is how they are contributing to what happens to women. Any male that helps, supports or contributes to what happens to women in any way whatsoever, deserves to pay for this… Read more »
White men,….welcome to flying while Arab. Welcome to be randomly picked 5 times in a row at the TSA line on 5 different flights. How does it feel to be pulled over by the Arizona state police endlessly for looking Mexican.
How does it feel to be picked on.
Shit happens when people who look like you smash planes into buildings. Who knew???
The indictment of White Gentile Men in academia would be valid if there were actual ugly conduct that was being reacted to. The problem is that it doesn’t exist outside of the fevered and desperate minds of intellectual perverts. If you’re playing ID politics, Chad NEEDS to be a beast or else the other groups wind up looking wanting by comparison.
Solution? Maybe stop trying to compete in a zero sum game that you’re not even good at?
For my safety, I am not going to pretend men are harmless. Sorry.
And for my safety, I am going to assume women are out to frame me and lie about my actions. Sorry.
This is so reassuring to read. I feel exactly the same about black people, and was worried that I was guilty of prejudice. I’ve been a victim of crime twice in my life; a house robbery and a mugging, both times the perpetrator was a black man. If a black man “proves their harmlessness” sufficiently, I’m pretty alright with them, so I don’t think I’m a racist as such. Just reasonably suspicious of a large group of overwhelmingly innocent people.
“Men who grumble about being “guilty until proven innocent” are demanding to be seen as individuals, separate from their perceived sex and the history that goes with it. That’s a tempting but unreasonable demand to make.” Asking to be treated as individuals is not an unreasonable demand. Stereotyping men as potential rapists is a sexist thing to do, and it is no different from negatively stereotyping any other such group. In some places, black people also face similar racist stereotyping, where people assume that just because someone is black, they are more likely to commit a crime. This is also… Read more »
If I walked alone in the middle of the night and met a woman and she scared of me of being a rapist, I would not be offended. Well I know I’m not a rapist, why would I be offended? If she scared, its her problem, not me. And I think its good for her to take a defensive stance. After all there are really bad people out there . I would be scared of thief and robbers and murderers too if I walking in the night alone. And its my problem, not others. If I have a daughter, I… Read more »
I really think you should be ashamed of yourself dude. You wrote an article justifying prejudice against other people. It doesn’t make you brave, informed or unique to say something like this, it just means you’re prejudiced, and what’s worse you’re prejudiced against your own sex. I agree with you about women being oppressed, but as a gay man, I actually still have laws against me. Not only can I not get married, but it’s still legal to discriminate against me when I apply for a job in many states, and of course there’s the social oppression in most areas… Read more »
And to add to my last article, feminists should start getting worried when gay men start turning against them.
Why?
I kind of understand Schwyzer’s story here, but holding an entire gender guilty until proven innocent is pointless. Rapists and violent nutcases will always walk the Earth and their deeds may never be fully prevented. There won’t be a chance for the decent majority of men to be proven innocent and that is unfair. As a young woman I too have experienced that anxiety when a strange man walks briskly behind me in a dark street. But if I notice that the man is in fact a woman, the anxiety vanishes. How weird is that? Women too have assaulted, robbed… Read more »
I will still be afraid and men will be whom I am afraid. Common sense. Why make women guilty of self protection?
It sounds like Hugo is talking about self-preservation. We (women and men) lock our doors, especially at night, lock up the car, purchase security systems, carry pocket knives, carry pepper spray/mace, and even own guns. We do so under the assumption that, if we don’t, we are leaving ourselves open to harm. There is a pervasive prejudice that goes into the effort of self preservation, but it is the individual’s right to defend him or herself from a world that they feel is unsafe. Ideally we will never have to use violent means to protect ourselves, so often people will… Read more »
So are you ok with a white man fearing black men because a few black men beat him up?
If you’re in a neighborhood where you don’t feel safe, for whatever reason, and you decide not to walk around in the middle of the night, does anyone have the right to take that as a personal offense? Especially when, in the event of you being assaulted or robbed, you’ll hear “you shouldn’t have been out at night in a bad neighborhood! What the fuck did you think would happen?!”
Pallus Pallafox, I think you’re analogy is on target here. I’d add (probably covered already) that the the consequence of keeping your guard up might be an absence of a positive interaction vs the consequence of letting your guard down is disaster. Probabilities don’t really factor in since this is an emotional issue. Ubderstandably emotional. And speakinb of emotions, you’re right that the challenge is to “not take this so personally”, but that’s tough for many people to do. Men who respond particularly strongly to women’s indifference, whatever the reason for the indifference, are probably feeling like their options are… Read more »
Yes, let’s make ourselves easy to violate which is what articles today seem to like. If you are. Isolated, they will ask why you didn’t safe guard and what were you wearing and drinking. Don’t be naive. This is about men finding women as being naive and blaming them for their own demise.
Okay. We get it. You hate men.
Seriously, what a crap article. You’re arguing that if a man in Florida rapes a woman, I am therefore guilty by proxy, from the cradle to the grave. The overwhelming majority of men are not rapists, and would give their lives to prevent a stranger from being raped. Their reward for that? Being called a rapist by default. Silence is not tacit support or approval. In fact, you’ve presented nothing in terms of actual fact, your viewpoint is skewed beyond any reason, and your bias obvious. What’s worse, is that you actually produce this, in line with things known to… Read more »
Nope, unless you relate, it isn’t about you. Do you somehow see yourself as a rapist for some reason?
Go read Kafka
I wonder if Hugo accepts racial profiling as well.
Hugo, I’m very sorry about this, but it appears you were the victim of brainwashing at a very young and impressionable age. Take some comfort in knowing that it wasn’t your fault. Who knows, if I had taken Women’s Studies classes at 19 my mind might have been polluted in a similar way. It’s not too late though my friend, you can still pull out of it. We’ll be here waiting for you on the other side.
Hugo, clearly you do not check you facts before writing an article. Men are overwhelming more likely to be the victim of assault and violence, not women.
guilty until proven innocent,what a joke .and i’m glad this writer sees the foggyness of misplaced anger toward feminism…….for the responders who think shaking an abuser loose is easy-they don’t stop,u have to keep moving to live. you are either in denial of actual abuse statistics or choose to ignore them.50%of women killed by a stalker-stalker is an ex-boyfriend or husband. writer- you are definetely evolved in your response to your thoughts as a young man… Sexualization and rape are not about being attractive or young. it is a way for the perpretrator to kill what they find most loathsome… Read more »
Of course, everyone realizes that this “all men are rapists or potential rapists” argument/philosophy is considered by me and many women to be a steaming pile of misandry. Thankfully, the making of such arguments are no longer nearly as common around these parts. That said, last night, I (a healthy, robust black man) gave two young very attractive while female strangers a ride home from the grocery store. Turns out that were young French women who had just moved here from France for work and didn’t yet have a car. They were standing there with loads of groceries not sure… Read more »
Well said, Hugo!
Schoma, I was thinking about your January 4 post when I was writing this. Hugo, I found your article challenging- while I believe that you write from a deeply held sense of conviction and empathy. We must always try empathize, understand, and have a deeply abiding compassion for others. But beyond this, though, I found myself focusing on some of what I saw as the broader, more troubling implications of you article. Someone told me not too long ago ‘never accept double standards; though stereotypes may be accurate sometimes, it just doesn’t lend weight to stereotyping in general.’ Hugo’s article,… Read more »
Wow. I posted a small response about five posts up. Then scrolled down to see yours. I completely agree with what you’ve written. Thanks for articulating it better than I did.
To all the whiny men commenting.
Boo Hoo. You have it SO hard
For the past 30 years, if a man said what you just did, they would be pegged as a chauvinist pig. Am I seeing a double standard here? And yes, we have it a lot harder then you would like to believe. Truth is no one whines more then women. Maybe if men whine more, the suicide rate for men wouldn;t be as high as it is. Yes, women “attempt” suicide more but men succeed far more then women.
@Tom I tell you what, I’ll acknowledge the challenges men have in society if you acknowledge the challenges women have. We all have challenges. This article is about understanding each others challenges. You’re doing a really awesome job of whining Tom, you must have a rather developed feminine side then if it’s only women who whine. Do you live you’re life everyday with a wee bit of fear? Fear that someone will hurt you? Think about the scrawny boy in grade school that got picked on the big boys all the time and all the other guys stand around laugh.… Read more »
I’m going to start off by being blunt: the premise of this article is rubbish. A few days before Christmas of 2011, I was physically assaulted – without provocation – by a drunk man in the street. He threw a drink in my face, pummeled me and shoved me into oncoming traffic (lucky for me ABS was invented, eh?). He also happened to be African. By the author’s logic, I should now be in — and should have every reason to — fear (of) Africans/blacks, or at least be fearful for my safety around them. Forgive me, and call me… Read more »
The problem with your comparison is that black men have not been systematically oppressing your gender/race and exercising power over you since, well, literally the dawn of the human race. In addition, I’m not sure about Australia, but in the US black men actually DO get stigmatized for violence, despite the fact that more white men commit (violent) crimes than black ones. So…your comparison isn’t apt.
I hope you aren’t implying that women in the west are “systematically oppressed” here in 2012. That would be ridiculous, right? Believe it or not, some people actually believe that even though there’s no evidence of it.
Yes. Women are systematically oppressed. Just because you, as a male, have not felt the effects of sexism DOES NOT MEAN IT DOES NOT EXIST
Proof? Just because someone, generally feminist, says they are oppressed doesn’t make it so. Modern feminism has been here for 30 years, no way you can tell me that women are systematically oppressed. Domestic violence call is made, in MOST cases the officers going to that call have already assumed that the man is the perp. At what age are women “required” to sign up for selective service? Oh wait!! They aren’t required! “Women and children first” on a sinking ship is still in place. Even the armed forces have lowered their expectations in boot camp….. c’mon, who are you… Read more »
Only according to feminist theory, which only a small minority of women subscribe to. The vast majority of women are reasonable, see thIngs as they are in 2012, and aren’t stuck in 1950.
I wish I could agree with you about the small minority of women. Men bad women victims is continiously being fed to the public which is a small example of the reality of todays society. Marriage rates are also reflective as to how women think these days. Women are taught to believe that they don’t need a man … look at gender studies in universities. It’s bad and it’s getting worse.
BTW, an individual saying or doing something sexist and your theory of “systematic oppression”, as in some organized global conspiracy engaged in by all males to oppress all females are not only two very different things, but the latter is simply impossible and out of touch with reality.
“…despite the fact that more white men commit (violent) crimes than black ones.”
Not proportionally, which is to say that there is a far higher percentage of black men, among the general population of black men, committing violent crimes — especially rape and murder — then white men among the general population of white men. And yes, a woman –white, black, hispanic, or of any other ethnicity — is about 100 times at higher risk of sexual assault from a black man than a white man.
Glad you said “proportionately” in that it brings to light a little known fact about women and child support. Yes, men overall owe more $ in child support then women but as we know, men get the short end in that arena. Truth is, women proportionately are more in arrears then men. Sorry, just had to add that.
His comparison is 100% apt because it is based on subjective experience. When we fear something, we don’t really take into account the macro-context. We experience things, interpret them, and then base future beliefs and actions on our interpretation. To say his comparison is not apt is to deny that his assault may have had as large an impact on him that a sexual assault would have on a woman. Women have the right to view us men as guilty until proven innocent because of their individual interpretation of the world around them. Just as anyone has the same right… Read more »
@kyidyl: SRSLY? Schoma has stated clearly that despite her initial feelings of distrust towards black men after being raped by them, she has found the courage and the inner strength to overcome them and realize that being raped was not her fault, she had to find it in herself to heal and get on with her life. Sounds to me like Schoma truly is a strong woman. I have no doubt that being raped makes people feel very angry and powerless. But she chose not to be helpless nor succumb to prejudice. So what you’re saying is just politically correct… Read more »
@ Schoma:
I thought that was a very compelling reply to Hugo’s article. In my opinion, there is great wisdom and moving conviction in your logic. I agree with you, and I think you have illuminated an important implication of Hugo’s article. You’ve got me thinking.
Women are not assuming all men are rapists until proven otherwise, but self-preservation does demand a certain amount of caution in order to avoid bad situations. We are taught by our culture but a LOT of it comes from experience. When I was younger (late teens, early 20s) I was really friendly with random strangers. After MANY incidents with men I didn’t know taking my friendliness as an invitation and touching me, following me, refusing to leave me alone after my telling them to do so, calling me rude words, grabbing my arm so I couldn’t get away, or otherwise… Read more »
Story of my life. And that of most women I know. This isn’t remotely uncommon.
Jess Yeah, I see this all the time. Men who don’t have much success with women for whatever reason deciding that women are evil and taking it out on them in the form of anti-feminism. They express sentiments which make it sound like they actually hate women and have no respect for them. They state all sorts of ridiculous “facts,” only further alienating women from men in general, making us feel like men cannot understand these issues so there isn’t hop for them. And then they call themselves good guys and wonder why they aren’t having success with women. They’re… Read more »
So let me start by saying that I am addressing your post Rob, I am neither supporting nor going against Jess’. 10) Honestly this whole idea of persuading women to have sex makes me pretty uncomfortable. Not because I have any problem with sex, in fact the opposite. This was typical back when sex was taboo, when women grew up being told they weren’t supposed to want sex, that it was dirty, a girl had to protect her modesty, etc. But then we had what some people like to call a sexual revolution. These days women are in tune with… Read more »
“Official statistics don’t reflect reality.” Jess you make so many good points above, but this one is the best and the one from which I’d like to begin my own rebuttal to Rob’s foolishness. I don’t care if the official statisticcs are 1 or 1 million women who get raped or sexually assaulted. What concerns me most about the majority of male response to this article, is their lack of concern for the greater issue. WOMEN ARE GETTING RAPED AND SEXUALLY ASSAULTED ALL OVER THE WORLD. Instead they decide that this article is about “men are evil” and launch into… Read more »
Rick S. Comment: ” “Having sex with someone who is intoxicated is LEGALLY rape” Holy cow, Migraine, that means that millions and millions of men and women have been raping each other for centuries. But in all seriousness, I am struck by Migraine’s refusal to distinguish between being passed-out drunk, and merely being tipsy. And it makes me wonder, which is truly worse: right-wing puritanism or left-wing puritanism.” i think the reason that women want the alcohol=rape standard is a little deceitful. They want to have the leverage over the bad boys they like to sleep with as the ultimate… Read more »
Am I the only who thinks that Hugo blurting something out as an angst-filled teenager and being responded to, and then decades later not having developed any deeper or more nuanced position on this particular subject is kind of pathetic?
Tom Brechlin Comment: “And although I still say the original numbers I reported are more accurate, I used YOUR numbers in my post. 5000 men a year for the past 10 years, you do the math. Tells ya how many men’s lives are ruined. This takes me back to the start of this thread and that is women are being trained to see all men as potential perpetrators” – well said Tom! Moreover, because of this legal and social landscape, Countless men have been pushed out of Education and many other industries that have regular contact with children which is… Read more »
Lela; On the ever widening definition of rape: “being pressured into sex,” “being talked into sex,” any other versions of not saying “no! Stop” without a weapon or actual threat of physical violence cannot be considered rape. If any adult woman does not have the will or moral character and integrity to stand up for herself and clearly articulate her boundaries, Then she isn’t strong enough to make her own sexual decisions. If you articulate the assertion that women are equal to men, and should be as free as men sexually, and should never suffer shame for sexual choices or… Read more »
You’re misinterpreting what being talked into sex means. It means a woman did assert herself, did say no or at the very least express that she didn’t want to in other ways, and the man refuses to take no for an answer,. He manipulates her into feeling guilty for not wanting to, he says he’s going to break up with her, he tells her that she’s not normal, he tells her she’s a bitch, a prude, or otherwise verbally degrades her for her choices, he might even cry to play on her sympathies. Either that or he just keeps touching… Read more »
Translation: Men are awesome, and women are pathetic, spineless, little children that must be protected from their own patheticness, and inability to stick to a position. Their choice to change their mind is not something that is her choice and she should take responsibility for her choice, no, she she’s just so totally pathetic that her choosing to change her mind much be seen as him raping her. After all, you never once said that when a woman doesn’t take a man’s no for an answer, while he’s say, writing an article on his computer and she keeps rubbing her… Read more »
Man, you are dumb and suck. Why so many American idiots like you? You make the rest of the world ashamed.
There are different forms of manipulation; different aspects while in different types of relationships, conducts, etc.
For the last paragraphe, the same goes. You can’t equate someone in a power place shaming and humiliating someone into sex with women wearing make-up or men working out and taking their shirst off at the club. Come on now, don’t make us even more ashamed and scared for humanity.
lela: “Repeatedly in anonymous surveys, people will say they have not committed rape but then go on to admit to committing acts which are legally defined as rape as long as the word “rape” is not used in the description (http://www2.binghamton.edu/counseling/documents/RAPE_FACT_SHEET1.pdf). This is exactly where awareness campaigns and social pressure are effective tools in reducing rape.” how dangerous and vile it is to lump all men into the same pile, this way! In addition, broadening the definition of rape is dangerous legally and morally. It clouds the issue to include typical male behavior that has nothing to do with rape… Read more »