Robin Juliet explains how to have a healthy and honest NSA relationship without guilt or heartbreak
—-
“That’s exactly what I want.” Emails like this from complete strangers pour in like a torrent sometimes. Young gangster thugs. Married guys. Men old enough to be my father. Cubs looking for their cougar. Out of town salesmen who’ve been on the road for years. Lonely singles. They express how a purely sexual relationship with the right woman would be a dream come true for them. They cannot believe their luck in finding me. Where have I been all their life? They wonder. Obviously, no two men are alike, but for those in the same place I am, my personal ads seem to ignite something in particular types of men.
My personal ads are pretty much all the same: I’m a sexually charged woman in my 40’s interested in a casual, no-strings-attached regular lover. I want to be able to get along in and out of the bedroom. A drink out here and there would be an ideal complement to a relationship that is more sexual than a friend but less constricting than a traditional boyfriend/girlfriend. I also flash my boobs.
Sometimes, the men come in droves. The ding, ding, ding from emails hitting my inbox become a slot machine jackpot. The majority of my potential suitors do not meet my standards—too young, too old, too skinny, too hairy, too creepy—but every time I place an ad, there are a few nuggets of gold.
Initiating a Casual Sexual Relationship
The men who stand out from the pack respond to my personal ad with warmth, authenticity and confidence. They are not the ones who say, “Hey baby! I am here to rock your world!” Rather, they are the guys who explain what appeals to them about a casual sexual relationship. They seem to be at least moderately attractive, and they are willing to go at my pace. For me, this means first meeting in public for a drink or a coffee to see if we hit it off.
I had a lover who answered one of my ads about a year ago. He told me his secret for these kinds of relationships is to never mention the sex first. He waits for the woman. “I don’t care if she’s pawing me up and down, I don’t open up the conversation about sex.” From my perspective, this approach works nicely because it gives me a chance to make up my mind about the situation and move forward within my comfort zone. There’s nothing worse than feeling as if I’m being pressured into sex. Backing off long enough for the woman to make the first move helps ease that tension.
Nurturing a Casual Sexual Relationship
I have two friends who have been lovers for years. They meet regularly for sex, spend the night together, and occasionally meet for a few drinks. When I ask them how they make it work, they explain that they respect each other as people and also respect the relationship for what it is. “I like it that our relationship is casual and there’s no pressure to change it,” my female friend confides. “If I want to start dating in earnest, I would tell him that I need a break, but I don’t want that right now. This is a good arrangement.”
Her lover concurs: “Sometimes, I worry that she’s too invested or interested in more, but every time I ask her she says that she’s good with the way it is. It’s nice that we can talk about it—check in to make sure we’re still okay with how things are going.”
Whether it is no-strings-attached sex, fuck buddies, or friends-with-benefits, the key to keeping the casual sexual relationship alive is acknowledging that it is, indeed, a relationship. I had a lover who wouldn’t respond to my texts when I invited him over for a rendezvous. He told me that he figured his silence got the point across. It most definitely did: he didn’t respect me. After I pointed out the flaw in his logic, he later declined invitations with a polite, but firm “Not tonight, sorry” instead of just ignoring me. That small tweak made all of the difference, and we were able to continue enjoying each other’s company for another six months.
Establishing boundaries and priorities may sound like a lot of effort for casual sex, but it pays off if you are sexually compatible and hope to continue seeing each other regularly. I had a friend-with-benefits relationship for a few years where we both insisted that the friendship had to take priority over the sex. For us, that meant that we preferred to meet in public to talk and flirt before heading to my apartment to fall into bed together. Adding a public element to the equation kept the friendship intact. Even though we are no longer lovers, we are still friends to this day.
Ending a Casual Sexual Relationship
Casual sexual relationships are notoriously short-lived. One of you falls in love with someone else. Jealousy creeps in and puts a strangle hold on what you share. A lover begins to feel used. While these scenarios cannot be avoided, they can be handled with honesty, openness and integrity.
“I just don’t want to have sex with her anymore, what can I say?”
“I’m ready to be in an exclusive relationship now, how do I tell him it’s over?”
“I don’t want to hurt her feelings.”
“I don’t want to make it uncomfortable when we run into each other.”
Just as you might suspect, being honest about your feelings is the best policy when ending a casual sexual relationship. The slow-fade is demoralizing. The blow-up is overly dramatic. The heart-to-heart is unnecessary.
While shooting off a quick text that says: We’re done. Good-bye, is not what I’m advocating here, being straightforward is. Depending on how you typically communicate—email or phone—succinctly thank your lover, state your needs, and wish him or her the best. Of course, there are degrees, but being direct without coming off as cold is the balance I think that works best.
Finding a lover who is “exactly what you want” takes some getting used to. Regular casual sex with the same partner is more than the physical bonds of your bodies. There are emotional connections as well. If you decide to engage in an ongoing casual sexual relationship, make sure the lines of communication are open and the intent is absolutely clear.
Sex—yes, even casual sex—can be a wonderful gateway to personal exploration where you lose your inhibitions and live out fantasies you never thought possible. Treating each other well, respecting the relationship, and being true to your needs (as well as your lover’s needs) keeps those doors open.
Bon Appétit!
—-
image credit: Flickr/je@n
I sure wish I could just post a personal ad in the same vein with similar results. Gosh, life is *sooo* hard for you women!
If even this site is having such headed debates about whether FWBs are ethical, imagine what the conversation is in the rest of the world. THAT, to me, is the major reason most women either don’t try for these situations or give up when a guy (or a few) assume this means she just wants someone to treat her badly and then leave. Granted, it seems we’ve been trained to believe there are EITHER relationships that lead to monogamous marriage OR one-night stands. As a woman who’s tried both, I can honestly say that FWBs–actual friends, actual benefits–just work better… Read more »
Very well written article — thank you. My interest in the subject is from the perspective of the usage of words/rhetoric in making a d keeping all communications clear and transparent. I’m curious how the word ‘love’ is used in these scenarios … before, during, and after … or is it avoided at all cost except in phrases like ‘making love’? Or does it very from couple to couple… arrangement to arrangement? Thank you in advance for any feedback.
Thank you for writing this article; it needed to be written.
I liked the article but most of all i liked the fact that author emphasized honesty and respect. Honestly in communication and respect in all types of communication when you are involved in FWB relationship. Btw, we also must admit that those relationships won’t last for long or as author said at some point, the other person will want more but as long as people honest with each other and treat each other with the UTMOST respect, they will stay friends.
I think the author makes a good point, that perhaps more women would be open to FWB type situations if the “F” part isn’t ignored. Just because some women would like to have a casual partner when they’re in between relationships doesn’t mean they are ok with that partner treating them like any less of a person for it, or that they don’t want to also have fun outside the bedroom, or leading up to it. I didn’t feel like the author was saying casual is for everybody or that everybody should seek out casual sex, but merely pointing out… Read more »
Robin, I’m just writing in with my PROPS for the great article. Sharing with friends — my equally sexually liberated male and female friends. We get you, but always good to share in our networks and as a reminder as why this way of living and loving is so very good.
Keep up the good work, woman!
What surprises me about the first comment to this post is that it works on the premise that if SOME people have happy casual sex, it’s somehow a threat to YOUR stable, emotionally engaged relationship. This is the same strange, righteous indignation with any lack of logic that feeds the ‘gay marriages make a mockery of straight marriages’ camp. Lacan had something to say about this. That there is a constant fear that the ‘joissance of others’ is always more perfect than our own, and this leads unconscious envy and hostility. Mrs. Delamore, the only way that the writer’s ‘casual… Read more »
I consider myself to be a very politically, fiscally, socially, morally, and religiously progressive person. I am open-minded, and try very hard to be non-judgmental. I am completely pro-LGBT, for instance, and my stomach turns when people fail to be 100% accepting of it. I also think, as a progressive religious person (Reform Judaism) that traditional religious prohibitions on pre-marital sex and masturbation are not just wrong, but actually harmful and even evil. However, I am not on board with the notion that purely casual, no-strings-attached sex has the potential to be ethical or permissible. I certainly think there are… Read more »
@Jordan, I tend to share some of your views. I am certainly not what one would considered a “progressive” person. I certainly would not say I am pro-LGBT. Yet, I voted ‘FOR’ same sex marriage here in Maryland. Why? Simply because I do not feel government should have the right to determine who can get married and who cannot. State governments should not even be in the business of issuing marriage licenses, period. On a moral level (due to religious beliefs) I simply cannot accept homosexuality. However, I am not willing to go out and crusade against it. There are… Read more »
Hi G You say “You ask a lot of questions in your comments Iben, about why should you be forced to go beyond your boundaries. I really don’t think that Robin was trying to take the stance that every other women should try this.” This was actually a response to Peter that spoke about exploring sexually . And to was not meant as a comment to Robin, as Robin do not ask us to explore our sexuality as far as I can remember I never said anyone force me or other to go beyond our boundaries G, I said my… Read more »
@Iben,
Hello Iben!
I just wanted to share this piece with you written by my favorite Rabbi,
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-shmuley-boteach/casual-sex-and-the-unsati_b_4262227.html
Happy Holidays:)
Hi Jules Thank you. I wish I could comment on all the points the rabbi makes but that will make my comment to long and the two of us will bore the others with our long conversations. But read this article. At the end it becomes interesting. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/12/female_promiscuity_in_primates_when_do_women_have_multiple_partners.2.html Eric Michael Johnson has a master’s degree in evolutionary anthropology focusing on great ape behavioral ecology and is currently a doctoral student in the history of science at University of British Columbia studying the interplay between evolutionary biology and politics. He writes the Primate Diaries blog for ScientificAmerican.com. Follow his work on… Read more »
@Iben, Hi Iben! “….and the two of us will bore the others with our long conversations.” LOL!! Thanks for the Slate link. I read the piece and found it to be interesting. The problem I have with evo psych or evo bio is that it tends to ignore most of reality today. For example, due to contraception, women can pick and choose the who, when and where about there reproduction. Also, women can choose to voluntarily be in poly relationships independent of the provider status. I do believe there is a residue of ‘evo bio’ or social/cultural factors that still… Read more »
Hi Jules I think it is fine that people today have several option. In addition to traditional monogamous marriage , we have monogamous cohabitation, polyamorous , open marriage, living apart together ( “særbo” in Scandinavian ), causal sex, and the new concept “weekend relationships.” A weekend relationship can be monogamous or not but they are not causal. The couples spend time together in the weekends, and in the holidays. If they feel like it they meet during the week also of course. But obviously they have separate households, separate economy. But for us that love to live both pets and… Read more »
Hi Peter Thank’s for the tips. I guess you are one of the polyamorous people. ✺ “People are beginning to explore different kinds of sexual relationships in their lives. It turns out (surprise!) that heterosexual, explicitly monogamous, long-term relationships aren’t the only way that people want to live their romantic and sexual lives. But it doesn’t mean that people don’t want to have the security and passion of a life-long partner either”✺ Yes Peter, there are several options. My question is how emotionally and sexually satisfying they are. I read a bit on Robins blog. It is unclear if she… Read more »
@Iben, Hello Iben ! “The sex I see described there sounds like imitation of porn.” Iben, I kind of felt the same. Somewhere she stated she was an English professor. I also began to wonder if she is real! Some of these stories read like made up stories and fantasies. She states that she does not host? Well, I read on her blog about her encounter with a professional major league baseball player. She clearly describes how he arrived at her apartment at 2:00 am in the morning. So, she does host! But, if this is all made up (quite… Read more »
Hi Jules Like you I felt this is not real. But I think her blog are mode up of articles written by others and she is open about that, she is the editor only. Many of the articles there are not written by a person with good language skills, or sexual experience. Several places a read sex scenes when the woman describes that the man first had anal sex with her and then penetrated her vagina. I am no into anal sex, but have learned that this is no no, due to hygien. And like you I do not see… Read more »
@Iben, Hello Iben! I agree with you Iben. Above, I asked Robin the following, “Just what purpose is served from having sex with tons of different men? I ask this in all seriousness.” I really do not get it. I realize people have different sex drives and fetishes. But, why does it have to be with 100 partners? I would much prefer it to be with someone whom I care about. I do not believe in treating human beings in a casual manner. For me it is about dignity. If I treated women casually and just for sex, I would… Read more »
@Julia Byrd You pretended to ask “Just what purpose is served from having sex with tons of different men?” and then you went about answering your asinine question all by yourself in your own ridiculous, judgmental manner. Apparently you have tons of time on your hands seeing that you’re now an expert on my 170+ post blog, so I recommend you spend ten minutes rereading the article this particular thread of discussion is supposedly addressing. When you do, I want you to consider the spirit in which it was written. I also want you to pay close attention to my… Read more »
@Robin, You stated, “……..would I be willing to respond to a serious question you may have about how to engage in a casual, sexual relationship in a respectful manner.” Contrary to what you think, I am a reasonable chap. I took your advice and re-read your piece. While I did get a little bit more out of it, its substance remains the same: casual sex in a respectful manner that does not hurt anyone. However, it is still about casual sex (i.e., bed hopping). Yes, people can and in fact do have casual flings in the manner you have written.… Read more »
It sounds like you only want to discuss a “sex friendly society” if it meets your standards of “good boundaries”. How can we discuss such things with your imposed judgement? First, I want to explain to you that the articles on her blog, except for a few guest posts, are written by Ms. Juliet herself. I know this because I have had the opportunity to interact with her over a long period of time, both publicly (on blogs, twitter, etc.) or via email. I assure you, she is a real person with varied interests and it appears she is quite… Read more »
✺”It sounds like you only want to discuss a “sex friendly society” if it meets your standards of “good boundaries”. How can we discuss such things with your imposed judgement? “✺ Believe it or not , G. I want to discuss what is a sex friendly society. Are there any sex friendly societies on this earth today ? I wonder. What models for society can we imagine and work towards. It is best to set boundaries for one self and not for others, we can agree on that G. Our criminal laws set the boundaries for what is totally unacceptable,… Read more »
@Iben,
Hello Iben!
“And I think they also have a voice in a debate.”
Yes, I agree. Everyone should be able to express their opinions freely.
I respect and love you too Iben:)
@G, “…… if other people choose to have multiple partners over a short period of time, whatever they choose to call it? Do you really think that increased orgasms for your fellow women is really going to lead to the degradation of society?” Increased orgasms by women can be easily be attained with the same partner as well. Why must there be multitudes of different partners over a short period of time, if increased orgasms is REALLY the objective? Ms. Juliet’s behavior is more of some kind of fetish as opposed to a life style choice. The choice is hers.… Read more »
Hi Jules I hope it is OK if I make an comment here. I agree with you. ✺”Increased orgasms by women can be easily be attained with the same partner as well. Why must there be multitudes of different partners over a short period of time, if increased orgasms is REALLY the objective?”✺ The hunt for the big O. But it is possible we persons are very different sexually, and some need a stranger to feel intense feelings. And old friend of my used to say when he got drunk :” I can only do it with whores”. He was… Read more »
Do I condemn perfectly normal sexual behavior because I see red flags when men want causal sex only?
I asked a specialist if it is atypical sexual behavior if a woman prefers causal sex only.
Here is his answer:
✺”As for the specific question, a woman’s preference for casual sex is “atypical” in the statistical sense, but would not legitimately be called a pathology of any kind.”✺
James M. Cantor, PhD
Dr. Cantor is a psychologist and sexual behavior scientist. Associate professor of Psychiatry….and more.
Hi Robin In the western societies we have many different types of relationships between men and women that includes sex. The type of relationship you describe and want right now, you describe as a relationship with no-strings-attaches sex, it is a short lived relationship, but while it lasts it can mean that two persons see each other regularly,and it is less constricting than traditional boyfriend /girlfriend relationship. And you end with saying: ✺”Regular casual sex with the same partner is more than the physical bonds of your bodies. There are emotional connections as well. If you decide to engage in… Read more »
@Iben These are very reasonable points that you are making. But there are other answers to your questions than the one that “If these relationships made you feel really good and felt right, then they would never end.” People are beginning to explore different kinds of sexual relationships in their lives. It turns out (surprise!) that heterosexual, explicitly monogamous, long-term relationships aren’t the only way that people want to live their romantic and sexual lives. But it doesn’t mean that people don’t want to have the security and passion of a life-long partner either. But there are very real alternatives–but… Read more »
@Peter,
” But it doesn’t mean that people don’t want to have the security and passion of a life-long partner either.”
If there was security and passion with the life-long partner, would there really be a need for these other alternative?
I am divorced. The reason is because the marriage was sexless and passionless. Had there been sex and passion I would still be married.
Are you suggesting people (some) want to have there cake an eat it to? Poly life style? Open marriage? I guess these are all the alternatives you speak.
Reading this articulate, well written post on on what is best described as a difficult subject, and was completely taken aback by the vitriol filled comments, more specifically how personal they were. Is this the type of behaviour that is to be expected when you express yourself/take a side in a conversation? Because their worldview doesn’t match up with yours, it becomes a personal attack? Preachy, judgmental attacks and name calling don’t solidify anybody’s point in a conversation. If you can’t use logic or reason and are genuinely open to a two way dialogue, how is an emotion filled, myopic… Read more »
Robin, Just what purpose is served from having sex with tons of different men? I ask this in all seriousness. Are you just a highly sexual woman who is in constant need of variety and novelty? So many women seem to think it is some kind of rite of passage to have lots of casual sex with lots of different men. Not to judge you, but the whole thing seems down right nasty and decadent. “They seem to be at least moderately attractive,…” Oh well, you prove my point that women find only a few men attractive (the gold nuggets).… Read more »
Jules
Don’t worry. Most of us do not bother to sleep with men we see as moderately attractive .
@KIM,
We know. You only want to marry us. Not have sex with us.
Excellent Robin, thank you.
To some extent, I guess you can say what I have is a FWB situation. We’ve been seeing each other for two years, but have known each other much longer. It’s a long-distance relationship, we’re both monogamous, but there’s an understanding that there’s no possibility of live-in or marriage plans. Normally, I would say no to a FWB situation mostly because most people don’t know how to handle it or treat their partners with respect or dignity … or quite frankly as a friend. But in the case I’m in, the friendship part of what we share is one of… Read more »
Robin,
Your serious lack of self esteem is apparent in your writing. Please refrain from your harmful advice and stop writing. You need to re-examine your life and values before you dole out advice to anyone. I hope you get the support you need to be healthy in the future.
I thought the moralists and scolders had pretty much disappeared from here when HS left.
@Hank,
Why do so many people like you have disdain for people who do not adhere to the utilitarian view of life? I live by the Law. In my personal case, it is the Law of Moses and the Prophets.
If you wish to be amoral, so be it. But, I as a citizen of this damn Republic, am free to say what I damn well wish and believe. Same for you too buddy!
How about approving my comment?
Robin
How can you be so sure men don’t see you as a prostitue they don’t have to pay for?
It is hard to understand how you feel it is safe to bring a steady steam of new strangers into your home.
Craigslist is not seen as safe.
It sounds like you’re trying to shame a woman for her behavior. If she’s taking proper precautions and safeguarding herself in selecting who she “brings into her home”, how is what she chooses to do any different than using OK Cupid to meet guys? Not everyone on Craigslist is a serial rapist, for crying out loud, so stop making it into this cesspool of humanity. Your frank judgment of her actions is more telling of the person you are and not the person she is.
“Not everyone on Craigslist is a serial rapist” but enough of them are killers that every year a few more bodies turn up at Gilgo Beach…
True that!!! All of the dating sites have rapists, murderers and just psycho people that have something that gets them off…so we all must beware!
Cara “”””””. Your frank judgment of her actions is more telling of the person you are and not the person she is.”””””” Do I judge her actions when I decribe how I would feel if I did what she does? I see it is a dangerous way to live. And I would expect some of the men to use me,not show me respect . That is how I feel,and that is my personal opinion. Some persons love to silence others by describing their opinions as ” shaming “. That strategy does not work with me Cara. If adult feel shame… Read more »
How can you be so sure men don’t see you as a prostitue they don’t have to pay for? Does Robin care if she’s seen as a prostitute? What’s wrong with seeing someone as a prostitute (assuming Robin doesn’t have a problem with that)? It is hard to understand how you feel it is safe to bring a steady steam of new strangers into your home. Craigslist is not seen as safe. She may feel safe because despite the scare mongering the vast majority of men are not rapists waiting to strike. Also what data are you going by when… Read more »
Danny When a woman say about a man ” he treats me like a prostitute ” She means he has sex with her without respect and without giving. He takes ,uses her and leave. And I have no problems in admitting that I am against prostitution for several reason. What a man,child or woman must do for living under deep poverty is one think,I do not condemn persons that have to sell their body to survive . But I am against it as a legal job in a Western country when we still have other alternatives to earn money. Many… Read more »
She means he has sex with her without respect and without giving. He takes ,uses her and leave. So, when women look for sex with free of attachment does that she she “takes, uses him, and leaves”? Because from what I’ve seen desire for unattached sex is not something that’s exclusive to men. If two people get together for unattached sex and both are clear about that what’s the problem with that? Now in situations where one is looking to do that to the other but without being upfront about it that is certainly a problem. And I have no… Read more »
Danny
Why don’t you write a little article on GMP and ask these questions .
This issue is complicated. I am not read up on research and seldom read news about discussion about for and against making prostituion legal.
Of course I am against exploited labour. That question is an insult.
Write an article then let many give us more facts about prostition. Men,children and women.
http://www.newstatesman.com/helen-lewis/2013/05/what-do-you-think-about-his-choice-uncovering-men-who-visit-prostitutes
Danny . “””””And many person that sell their bodies are victims of childhood sexual abuse or addicts. Yes a lot of them are. But are you ready to just assume they all are?”””””” When I wrote that many prostitutes are victims of childhood sexual abuse , or have problems like addiction ( drugs) I used the word many. How you read the word many = all tells me you are angry. Maybe you sell sex, or dream of selling sex. Or maybe you one day marry,and think it just fine if your wife and the mother of your children sells… Read more »
@KIM,
We can agree on one thing!
I share the same view(s) you have on prostitution. These high class Ivy League educated “escorts” are a typical of female sex workers.
What is truly hypocritical with most men is that we don’t mind some other man’s daughter being a prostitute (or stripper) but not theirs. But, this is our history as men. We have always sought to do one another in via wars etc. To the victor go the spoils (including the women).
“but not theirs.”
Should read,
“but not ours.”
Sorry.
When I wrote that many prostitutes are victims of childhood sexual abuse , or have problems like addiction ( drugs) I used the word many. How you read the word many = all tells me you are angry. No. Overall you are saying that you are against legalizing prostitution. That affects all prostitutes, not just the ones that are victims of childhood abuse and addiction. I’m not accusing you of saying all prostitutes are victims of such things. But no I’m not angry, just disagreeing with you. You see the difference right? Maybe you sell sex, or dream of selling… Read more »
Danny “”””””Unless you can show that said prostitutes did not want to be in that position they are not being used for sex anymore than the prostitutes are using their customers for money.”””””” Actually I don’t have to prove anything to you Danny. I live in a democracy and use my vote and my voice. States that choose to have laws that say it is illegal to buy sex have lots of reasons for doing so, the welfare of the men and women in prostitution is only one of the reasons. For me it is enough reason that legalized prostitution… Read more »
Actually I don’t have to prove anything to you Danny. I live in a democracy and use my vote and my voice. After telling me to marry a prostitute to show my respect for them? States that choose to have laws that say it is illegal to buy sex have lots of reasons for doing so, the welfare of the men and women in prostitution is only one of the reasons. I never said there were no other valid reasons. Our exchange just happened to focus on wellbeing. You see prostitutes as persons that use others for money. I end… Read more »
Danny It is true. Issues like this one triggers strong emotions in me. Very strong emotions. And it has nothing to do with men women relationship, , but rather how we see sexuality in our societies . And that makes me sad and upset. The way some are used sexually by others , like in trafficking makes me cry. And if some filthy rich persons pays a fortune to sleep with beautiful women, and feel they are used by them . Well , I do not feel sorry for the costumer. Nobody put a knife to Tiger Woods throat and… Read more »
Kim, are you kidding me??? I really don’t think this writer was ever stating she was bringing random men into her home to have sex. Also, you must be really sheltered or just plain naive if you believe that OK Cupid or Match.com or any other personal add sites do not have dangerous people on it. I am a criminal defense lawyer and I have represented numerous rapists, physical attackers, aggravated robbers and even have defended murderers who found their victims on a dating site. Sad to say, it is the woman, who needs to thouroughly screen any person they… Read more »
@Melissa,
” I really don’t think this writer was ever stating she was bringing random men into her home to have sex.”
Got to her blog, ‘Off Go the Panties’. This is exactly what she is doing, in some cases.
Btw, I think one of her best blogs was about why so many married men are looking for sex. Ladies, you ALL need to read her blog. She is spot on 1000%.
Cheers!
Hi Jules I followed your advise and took a look at Robins blog, but could not find the article you refer to. Here is what I found: ✺”I’ve slept with married men before, and I suspect I probably will again at some point, but they are definitely not my first choice. No, it’s not because they have a wife and kids. No, it’s not because I would have to host all of the time. I don’t even care all that much that it would never go anywhere. The main reason I don’t like to mess around with married men is… Read more »
Melissa Yes it true. I have never used dating sites. Your advice is a good one, “””””you are ever going to meet the person another time in a not as public place and in the daylight, you need to have all of his information and run an extensive background check on the man””””””” How can you do that? It means you have to ask for his ID. I have no idea how to run a extensive background check of a person. All I know is how to look up how much tax they pay and the property they own as… Read more »
I had this relationship exactly once. It was with a bi woman who formed her emotional relationships with women. I was on the mend from a relationship, else my emotions might have figured heavily. They didn’t, and we had a lovely once a month relationship for about six years with spectacular sex. At the end, I think she was becoming a little emotional. I wasn’t. She began insisting on oral sex only, and that wasn’t enough for me, with the great history we’d had together. I don’t agree with Mrs. D., seeing this stance as a tendency back toward the… Read more »
Hank
“””””” But sex usually involves intense emotions, particularly if one person starts to withdraw, or if one or both fall in love. So, casual isn’t all that possible in my book.”””””
Exactly ! .
Causal isn’t all that possible. And that is also why it can be a dangerous game to play.
Been there , done that.
I want others to comment on my theory as to one of the reasons why female demand for casual sex is so low. For many women, sex is moreso a means of power and narcissistic fuel (a means to feel desired/wanted/good about self) than it is a channel for physical and orgasmic pleasure. Being chased, getting lots of messages, being taken out on dates, being passive in sex and making an uneven effort, all of these feed and fuel a woman’s artificially enlarged *narcissistic* drive so that when she begins to make a real effort comparable to the man it… Read more »
I find your theory cynical, to say the least. If women merely want attention, going to a bar is a far more efficient method of getting it than looking for casual sex online. In addition to the emotional work mentioned in the article, the effort required to put up an ad, read through the deluge of responses (many of which will be far from flattering), establish a connection and a modicum of trust with a stranger, and arrange a mutually convenient time and place to meet can feel more like work than an ego boost. However, I will agree that,… Read more »
VERY few women relative to men are looking for casual sex explicitly, period. I was trying to explain THAT.
“I want others to comment on my theory as to one of the reasons why female demand for casual sex is so low.” I was commenting on your theory — I disagree with your reasoning. However, if you want to know why some women are reluctant to look for casual sex online, take a look at this thread. About half of the comments, including your own, are devoted to judging women for our sexual choices. As I mentioned, finding a good partner requires effort, but what incentive do women have when the reward for that effort is an inbox full… Read more »
Where am I judging women for anything? You’re mistaken.
Max
Women do have causal sex.
Go to international conferences and will know women have sex with men and women they just met, fully aware that this is causal sex.
Given the right circumstances and surrounded with interesting, bright well educated men to choose women do have causal sex. Probably as often as men do.
I must admit I do somewhat agree with Max. I don’t like the generalisation he made or how he painted women in a judgmental manner but I do think that women, AND MEN, are seeking more than just ‘pleasure’ through sex. In fact, I am certain of this. Psychological and other research, including surveys, lead to the conclusion that all humans want the emotional bond created by sex If people were just seeking pleasure they can more than easily satisfy themselves, and there are toys on the market for both males and females for this purpose. The physical connection with… Read more »
I for one, am not going to agree on the idea that there is much disparity between the desire for and participation in casual sex between men and women….
This idea that 1/2 dozen women in your town are the only ones getting it on wantonly is a dated trope..
I never left a casual sex partner’s house and had to wait for all the FedEx and florist’s vans double parked bringing her an unending parade of gifts or saw a line going down the block of insanely lonely men begging for their turn.
If you look at the “Casual Encounters” page on Craigslist, you’ll see a lot more men looking for women than women looking for men. If you look at who’s looking for casual sex (I even said “looking for casual sex, expliciltly”) on the dating sites, you’ll see a lot more men than women. That’s what I’m talking about.
I also never said a only half dozen women are getting it on either. They are getting it on with a relatively small number of men who are unusually attractive/outgoing and the rest are going without.
Max,
“They are getting it on with a relatively small number of men who are unusually attractive/outgoing and the rest are going without.”
Yes, you are absolutely correct.
Max, I think that plenty of women desire casual sex, however there is more at stake in trying to find it. Women, more often than men, have to be more cautious out of concern for their own physical safety and well-being ad not being put in a potential risky situation where they could be physically assaulted, harassed, stalked, etc. Also, in my experience, the amount of penis photos and obnoxious comments were enough to turn me off to going online for anything casual. I completely understand what Robin means about avoiding the ones that are like “hey, I’m here to… Read more »
This is what I was going to say too. Women DO seek out casual sex, at a rate that might surprise Max. We just tend to be more subtle about it. Why post your own personals ad on Craigslist when you can just scroll through the men who have already posted and pick a few to reply to privately? Why go for the online-stranger route rather than choose from your own pool of friends and acquaintances? I’ve found I can get plenty of action even without publicly advertising my availability and interest. And there are benefits to keeping that availability… Read more »
Max “””””For many women, sex is moreso a means of power and narcissistic fuel (a means to feel desired/wanted/good about self) than it is a channel for physical and orgasmic pleasure.””””””” Some men see sex a sport, they brag about their conquests, try to fuck as many women as they can and tell everybody about it. Are they not egoistic,narcissistic and cynical about the whole thing? Have you never met men that want sex for validation of their own attractions and worth? Give me a break Max if you say some men do not see sex as power, and never… Read more »
Max, I’m going to have to disagree with almost everything you said. You’ve got the majority of women completely wrong. First off, your assumption that most women want sex for mostly egotistical reasons is dead wrong. I have met very few women who don’t physically enjoy sex a great deal. If they don’t, a lot of it is the man’s fault for being a poor lover. To suggest that most women enjoy the physical aspect of sex less than a man is actually quite medieval. I know very very few women who don’t love sex. Most of the girls I… Read more »
Lexi, Let me begin with a quote from you: “The women who, as you put it, “get to it quickly” are, in my experience the ones with the least self respect and most insecurities.” So YOU say the women who are stereotypically quick to jump into casual sex as men are the women with “the least self-esteem” and “the most insecurities”? YOU said this, but when I talk about some women having sex for mostly egoistical reasons you get angry and frustrated with me? Next question: If your friend says, “Hey Lexi I think you’re cute and have felt attracted… Read more »
Max Italien men have a repudiation that say they are terrible at causal sex.. They always insits on bringing the lady out to dinner first. Can you decribe how you want to spend the evening with a woman you think ( know ) will have causal sex and you will never see her again. You meet at six and have an evening together. The PUA has the word a “fools mate.” It tells a lot about how some men look at woman when they don’t have to go through all the hard work of conquering her because she has already… Read more »
The two main reasons for it that I see are: (1)- women do not orgasm as easily as men. Most men, if they have a willing partner who they find attractive, can have an orgasm if they have sex with them. Most women do not orgasm from intercourse alone, therefore they need a partner who is willing to do more than just a bit of intercourse. So.. if a woman is feeling horny and wants an orgasm, she might decide to just go home and take care of it herself, because the chances of any random man being able to… Read more »
If I could be sure of having a fabulous sexual experience every time thenI’d be more inclined to have casual sex. Unfortunately none of my casual sex experiences have been that great. I have a difficult time getting an orgasm with a stranger. The experiences I had felt awkward and weird. Maybe I am just more attracted to a man who I know well. Actually I’m not that physically aytracted to even good looking men until I get to know them and decide I like their personality.
Max. women want sex for free, just not with you. Live with it, you’ll sleep better.
Robin, The men are so hungry and burning with the desire that they struggle calm down for a second and reflect on the best way to approach you, but the error is just gender solipsism. If an attractive woman sent me a message that said, “Lets do this.” I and 99% of the men looking for casual sex would still be interested, you would not. Men and women are different so following the Golden Rule can still lead you down the wrong path, and how are men who haven’t met you supposed to know how to approach you? This is… Read more »
Sorry, but these sort of females are not really helping the world and especially the other women in it. Sex is relegated to supermarket status and panders to the “microwave” society that we have become. Gotta have it now! Rather than encouraging celibacy and healthy self -control, faithfulness to a spouse, the courage to go and work out relationship and identity problems etc, this sort of advertisement, for all it’s declared parameters, is part of the ongoing problem women being objectified, demeaned and generally disrespected. It allows too many males to be let off the hook with the expression of… Read more »
Mrs. Delamore–Thank you for sharing your perspective and opening the debate even further on what constitutes agreeable, consensual, (dare we say enjoyable?) sex. As is pretty standard, you advocate for women to be the ones responsible for monitoring who gets to have sex, when, and with whom. Let’s not forget your cautionary plea: When a woman chooses to engage in recreational sex–even in a respectful manner as described above–then the world is coming to an end. There’s no surprise there. What may surprise you is that I really like these kinds of debates. I make no apologies for being a… Read more »
I agree with Ms. Juliette…we are all are own women. This stance may not be acceptable to a married woman that is still in a committed relationship. I just know that after your marriage ends, sometimes a casual sexual relationship is all one can handle. Even years after a divorce, many woman are much more hesitate to enter a committed relationship when they are not sure he is the one. I know I only want to be in a committed, hopefully life long relationship, if the man is my “soul mate,” I never want to be involved in another divorce.… Read more »
I’m afraid that Mrs. Delamore shows little respect for men or for women in this reply, and instead relies on shallow stereotypes of human sexuality to make this argument. The idea that Ms. Juliet’s point about casual sex “allows too many males to be let off the hook with the expression of their physical desires” is misguided. There are a lot of taboos and misconceptions about sex, but one of the most enduring ones is that all men, and all women, ultimately need/want the same thing. There are a lot of people (men and women) who are emotionally and sexually… Read more »