Dillan DiGiovanni says Kirsten Dunst’s “manly” definition of men is limiting and offensive.
You may have missed the latest news about Hollywood actress, Kirsten Dunst. She shared some revealing insight and a strong opinion about what’s necessary to make relationships work: namely, men must be really “manly”.
In an interview in the May issue of Harper’s Bazaar UK, Dunst shared her more traditional view on relationships, “”And sometimes, you need your knight in shining armour,” continued Dunst, whose exes include Jake Gyllenhaal, Tobey Maguire, and Justin Long. “I’m sorry. You need a man to be a man and a woman to be a woman. That’s how relationships work.”
I read this repost on the website for USweekly magazine. The article shared how Dunst’s opinion was offensive to feminists.
I saw something completely different.
I saw the limits it placed on men, and the ways men are able to express themselves. I saw a narrow and limiting definition of manhood and masculinity.
I saw the reason why transgender and genderqueer individuals struggle for acceptance in society and love for themselves, when the binary of distinct male and female gender roles keeps being reinforced in peoples’ minds with articles such as this one.
This is how we are affected and shaped by our culture. A mainstream media outlet shares a story about a high-profile, young woman’s take on what a relationship “should” look like and who people need to be and how they need to act to make it work. It then listed her former partners, Tobey Maguire, Jake Gyllenhaal and Justin Long, perhaps indicating in some way that those individuals are less “manly” because they didn’t work out with Dunst?
Tobey Maguire, a long-time and outspoken vegan who is happily married with two children.
Jake Gyllenhaal, a heterosexual actor who chose to play a gay man in a major Hollywood film during the highpoint of his career.
I don’t know any great factoids about Justin Long but these tiny tidbits I did know about Maguire and Gyllenhaal tell me they are sensitive men who think and live outside the boxes of mainstream society. They seem to be the kind of men we need as role models.
I looked up the word “offend” to see if I was really offended by Dunst’s statement. It feels very ego-based, so I wanted to make sure I really understood the word. Here’s what dictionary.com had to say:
verb (used with object)
Those definitions resonated with me. I felt offended by Dunst’s limiting definition of what it means to be a man and how a man has to behave to make a relationship (with a woman) work. She’s entitled to her opinion, sure, but comments like this set us all back a bit and stall the hard work folks are doing to redefine manhood.
It amazes me when some young people (Dunst is 31) still promote and esteem such archaic definitions of relationships and gender roles. It shows we still have a long way to go. When people like Dunst say things like this, it tells us where we are in history. They are like a measuring stick, a ruler, of how far we’ve come and how much we have left to go before people feel free and secure to be their true selves.
We’ve made progress but Dunst’s opinion offended far more than feminists, fans and followers of gender theory. She offended men and other people who live outside the “manly” box and all the people who love and cherish them for the unique beings they are.
Connect with Dillan on his website as well as twitter and instagram.
Also by Dillan DiGiovanni:
Can You Contribute without Dominating?
Honoring Your Word Like A Man
—Photo Nan Palmero/Flickr
Amazing the selective deleting of comments. Differing viewpoints are always welcome, unless you disagree with them. So common among lefties as to be cliche.
1)Has the moderation policy shifted? 2)Myself and others have been dinged for far less than making threatening remarks about someone’s man kicking the ass of other men.And what is with all of the crass-disguised as clever-name calling?You would not allow a man to call a woman a toad or fat or slut or whore on this site.Please explain the distinction.Furthermore,Madeira,I am poor and dislike violence as do my poor friends and neighbors.Speak for yourself!
1)Has the moderation policy shifted? 3)Myself and others have been dinged for far less than making threatening remarks about someone’s man kicking the ass of other men.And what is with all of the crass-disguised as clever-name calling?You would not allow a man to call a woman a toad or fat or slut or whore on this site.Please explain the distinction.Furthermore,Madeira,I am poor and dislike violence as do my poor friends and neighbors.Speak for yourself!
Actually, by seeing the restraints it places on men, you aren’t seeing it “completely different’ than feminists, but exactly how they’re seeing it. They want equality in genders; this means both genders, not just women – they focus on women’s rights because those have traditionally been the demographic minority without a voice. When we say what women are, we are saying what men are not and vice-versa. This is what feminism is against – defining what it is to be a certain gender and criticizing what’s outside of that. The offensive part of this isn’t that Dunst wants a big,… Read more »
MonsterEvolved: absolutely, 100% on-board with your last sentence. Only thing I would add is that there aren’t two genders—there are as many as there are people to express and define them. Some people like to think the two most common biological sexes = two genders but we are seeing more and more in mainstream media that the reality of human biology defies this binary. 🙂
Read The Plague Of Modern Masculinity by Paul Elam on http://www.avoiceformen.com, which argues that for our own survival we need to discard the parts of traditional masculinity that relegate us into being appliances or cannon fodder.
I will check it out, Wes. Thank you!
I am a man, therefor I am manly!
Great article but I would like to make one important point Kirsten Dunst, nor ANY OTHER WOMAN, has the faintest idea of what being a man is and therefor should have no opionion. Just as men do not have the right to define women, women need to accept men for who they are…. Period.
Great comment, Marc. Thank you.
I’m with Kirsten. And I’m only 30 years old! I don’t think what she said boxes men in in anyway – a man can be a man and a woman a woman while being vegans, meterosexuals and what not. It is about playing a role within the relationship regardless of what you eat, how you dress or whether you, as the man have interests typically associated with women. I think she wants a man who aren’t as easily offended perhaps? A man who feel free to be his true self regardless of what she wants in a man?
This is a good point. When we are offended by being told that men ought to be manly, it is because we have a certain conservative definition of “manly” in our minds. Which catches this website (and other likeminded ones) in a kind of dilemma. Because there are two different ways to remove this burden from men: 1) Accept that “manliness” means this thing, and consequentially tell men that they do not have to be manly. 2) Redefine the term “manliness” to include all possible male lifestyles. The dilemma is that you have to chose one and stick to it.… Read more »
I think the response was more to Dunst saying, “a man should be manly”—and (from what we know of what she ACTUALLY said from the article) she implied that was the only way a man should BE…is manly. That was what felt weird.
Well get over it.
But what if the zombie apocalypse comes?
What will the not “manly” men do?
Cry/talk the zombies to death? :))
But in our current society there is more than enough room for all “kinds” of men. The tough part is finding a partner that loves you the way you are and be happy 🙂
But when the zombies come…..
I completely agree. Dunst’s comment is offensive in so many ways and to so many different people. What I personally find worrying is that a remark like hers reflects medieval, unjust and narrow-minded values, which I hoped were extinct among the young.
Once again her comments are offensive to feminist and self identified male feminist. The rest of humanity see this as usless prattle.
Which is why I’m so glad Dillan wrote this.
And I’m glad you read it and are contributing to the conversation, Danny. 🙂 Thanks for being here.
That means feminists are the only evolved people in this world, in your opinion.
Good for her. The only concern I have is her high profile status making her opinion have a broader reach. But if anything this reinforces the reality that people have different preferences!! It has nothing to do with masculism, feminism, etc. It’s just what she likes. She’s done a lot of good in the world, and I don’t think it is fair to criticize her opinion as being so different that it hurts others. It’s up for the mothers and fathers and teachers of this world to educate our children on the qualities we believe are important. It is not… Read more »
*Aside from those who are strictly against the equality of women, everyone is a feminist.
*In your opinion.
“The article shared how Dunst’s opinion was offensive to feminists. I saw something completely different. I saw the limits it placed on men, and the ways men are able to express themselves. I saw a narrow and limiting definition of manhood and masculinity.”
These things ARE included in the definition of feminism. To act like feminism excludes matters regarding to men and masculinity is damaging to the name of feminism. It’s no wonder that so many men run at the “f-word” if they really belive they’re not included in it.
“…men’s liberation from the sociocultural constraints of sexism and gender roles is a necessary part of feminist activism and scholarship” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_and_feminism
Men aren’t really included in feminism unless it’s to sit down, shutup, “check your privilege” and accept what women say is correct about men’s lives. This is evident in nearly every single online feminist website and interactions I’ve ever seen between feminists and men. There is a reason why men run at the word, all generalizations of course but they exist for a reason.
Feminism on the whole is not as inclusive as many seem to think.
It sounds like you’ve been in contact with some pretty poor and angry feminist circles. That’s unfortunate. But there are plenty of groups who are really understanding about the restrictions placed on both genders and they often identify themselves as feminists. Maybe look for a “male feminist” group. It is important to clarify that the essence of the word “feminist” is equality for genders, regardless of how certain groups take the word and pollute it. As soon as there is serious inequality that demeans men and their opinions, you no longer have a true “feminist” ideal, but something entirely different.… Read more »
Awesome comment, well spoken (typed). The Westboro “Christians” example came to my mind as well…
MonsterEvolved: YES. thank you.
MonsterEvolved While I will concede that a bad individual can’t define a group and a extreme group can’t define a movement, that works both ways. Although you can’t take the actions of a radical individual and feminism the merit of a group/movement, you can’t be bias and believe that a movement can derive credit from a more exceptional activist. Yes, there are feminists who are pro-male but I can’t consider them exemplars of feminism anymore then the extremists. The only thing that can define a movement is its actions and intention, or rather the agents who are taking action together… Read more »
“Feminists have pushed hard for women to have the opportunity of gainful employment but when women’s emancipation into the workforce was occurring, was men’s emancipation into the home given the same enthusiasm? With women going into the workforce, could men stop working so hard, have to pay for everything and get to spent more time at home. No it didn’t.” Men have to step up. Men still put less effort into the home and it seems, as researches have pointed out, that it isn’t women who are blocking men. Many men are not willing to go there yet, and still… Read more »
Thanks, Aleta. Definitely wasn’t implying that feminism excludes matters regarding men at all. Just noted that the original article ONLY mentioned offending feminism/feminists (which many if not most people unfortunately associate with WOMEN)–and didn’t mention offending men or folks who identify outside the binary. That’s what I was hoping to do with my piece. 🙂 Thanks for the great reminder, though!
To act like feminism excludes matters regarding to men and masculinity is damaging to the name of feminism. It’s no wonder that so many men run at the “f-word” if they really belive they’re not included in it.
Unfortunately the reason a lot of men feel excluded from it is because of feminists themselves.
Men can’t expect feminism to be inclusive and as such they need to speak up for themselves.
Personally, I don’t need a man to be a man or a woman to be a woman, I need everyone to be Jareth The Goblin king and I am extremely happily married (to a man who strongly resembles Jareth the goblin king)
glad you snatched that gorgeous man up!! 🙂
Not my type based on her comment. Maybe she should date Clint Eastwood.
Indeed, David. She’s certainly entitled to her taste and preferences based on her sexuality but I bristled at her need to generalize everyone FOR everyone else. Silly stuff, IMHO.
Here’s the link to the article. http://www.harpersbazaar.co.uk/latest-news/kirsten-dunst-may-2014-cover-star IMO there really isn’t anything that bad in there. It’s no better to tell men and women that they can be anything other than traditionally masculine and feminine. It’s just a bigger box then. When people express opposition to marriage inequality, you’ll often hear, it’s none of your business who they love. Talk about having a traditional marriage and you’re the boogey man. I talk about maybe getting a mail order bride on other posts and it’s met with hostility. If that’s what I’m looking for and that’s what she’s looking for WTF… Read more »
No one is saying you can be anything but traditionally masculine or feminine, but she’s universalizing
I’d argue that it IS better to tell anyone that he/she/they can be anything other than traditionally masculine and feminine. CONDEMNING those traditional roles that is problematic, indeed. I wasn’t seeking to do that, so apologies if it came across that way. I was saying that those roles work quite well for some, and that is excellent, but do not for all human beings and it feels inappropriate to suggest otherwise.
“I felt offended by Dunst’s limiting definition of what it means to be a man and how a man has to behave to make a relationship (with a woman) work. She’s entitled to her opinion, sure, but comments like this set us all back a bit and stall the hard work folks are doing to redefine manhood” Keep up the hard work of defining manhood as some feminized, vegan, neutered Ken Doll in a loving relationship with his cis, but trans friendly life partner, carefully sorting their trash and only using hemp shopping bags. The women with desires for traditionally… Read more »
Pure gold.
The idea that men have been “feminized” by modern society has been around since Ancient Greece, the manly utopia you sing the praises of has never existed, and you know what?: My reusable shopping bag carrying, trash sorting, eyeliner wearing, long haired husband is more of a man than some insecure little boy who’s worried society is going to take his ding-dong away (and I strongly suspect he could kick your ass, as I’ve seen him kick the ass of men like you before). Someone’s a little worried about his manhood isn’t he.
Pathetic.
well-said 🙂
If you hadn’t of tried to flaunt your husband as a “real man” (complete with “he could kick your ass!” threat) while at the same time trying call sanctifying then your comment would have been a lot more powerful.
My goal was not for you to find my comment powerful, my goal was to poke at Sanctifying on areas he clearly values. If you want to make fun of someone, you have to mock them about inadequacies in areas they value. My intent was to make him feel bad about what he said.
“(and I strongly suspect he could kick your ass, as I’ve seen him kick the ass of men like you before) ” Was it self-defense or is your “man” a violent thug? Real men don’t have to be violent. I’ve kicked ass in self-defense but I don’t like doing it, it doesn’t make me a man. My female cousins have kicked men’s asses too in self-defense. The entire concept of the real man is pathetic. Is a real man born of the XY chromosomes? Then it offends trans-men. Is it a man who eats steak? There are no “real” men… Read more »
Self defense, or defense of others, of course (and consensual martial arts sparring) though I have to say the middle class distaste for violence comes from a part of society where violence is rarely necessary and then derides the lower classes as less evolved for defending themselves in a violent world). I quite agree that the concept is bullshit, but as I said before, if I’m trying to hurt someone’s feelings (as I was wit Sanctifying) it’s much more effective to use the person your trying to offend’s value system, because otherwise they’ll just laugh it off. I get blog… Read more »
*You’re, excuse me.
I’d really rather not put you in a camp, Sancty. Your opinion is valid and welcome here. I’d simply prefer you just make space for people who don’t choose to live as you do and reconsider your generalized assertion that your way is the “right” or “preferred” or “normal” way. It’s just A way. 🙂
Very humorously said. Sanctifying Victory. I wouldn’t put it quite as you did, but I do strongly disagree Dillan, the author. Kirsten was simply stating what she wants in a man and believes works in a relationship. I do not find that insulting or butt-hurt worthy and I do not feel set back the very least. It’s just someone’s opinion. Be whatever kind of man you want and I’ll be whatever kind of man I want and I could not care less if Kirsten agrees.
No exactly clear what you mean by “butt-hurt worthy” Rafael but it came across to me as demeaning and derogatory. Can you find different words to express yourself more clearly so I can understand you better?
And yes, we can be whomever we choose. I was commenting on her generalization about who people need to be in order for a relationship to work. I think her definition was limiting for men and heterosexist.
++++1… real men dig Dunst. May a masculine male wrap her in his arms and sweep her off her feet!
That is some hilarious bullshit, I tell you! 😀 I never understand what many Americans want to say when they mention masculinity/femininity or manhood or whatever. It seems like everything is mixed up, and that so many people are so blind that I can’t even discuss anything like that with them. First, the “feminized” part. That is funny. Feminized as in being feminine (a neutral quality, like yin) or as in acting “like a woman” (as in something women ARE)? Because you know, every woman is different, so there is no way “women” act, so I guess they are mentioning… Read more »
yes! thank you for saying this. I couldn’t agree more.
and the peeing thing is just funny.. I”ve seen grown men grow uncomfortable because someone saw their male DOG squatting to pee. Their Dog!! There was fear and shame on these grown men’s faces because their pet wasn’t abidding by the arbitrary standards of masculinity. their PET! It’s just so funny.. and a little sad.
I loved this! Thank you. 🙂
*laughing* Thanks.
That is a terrific response.
The Tittle of this article should have read “Kirsten Dunst’s “Manly” Comment Offends Feminists, & pro – feminist men. I can’t imagine any man (*who actually values masculinity) being “offended” by her comments.
well, you can believe it! You don’t have to imagine it, it’s a real thing. More than a few men (and other people, as I shared in my post) contacted me directly and thanked me for this piece.
I am a man. I value (positive) masculinity and femininity for everything they can mean. And I disagree with Dunst’s statement. Men must not be “manly”; not if they do not want to.
This article is criticizing the way that masculinity and manhood are restricted. You respond by saying that the author is trying to force all men to be feminine? Doesn’t make sense, and it seems vaguely paranoid. Please, just let go and accept that other men’s pride doesn’t require you to give up yours. As long as you’re respectful, nobody’s trying to deny your masculinity. Also, through the course of women’s history, a lot of women have paired up with a lot of men. Speaking in terms of evolution, it’d make more sense that women would have a diverse range of… Read more »
I am feminine (not feminized, I was born like that, that is my true nature), a devoted vegan, a makeup artist and lover… and a leg crossing sit pisser man. A real man as well – my chromosomes and birth certificate prove it.
Where is your god now?
We want a world where everyone is accepted and viewed with the same worth, that is all. Utopian? Of course! But I refuse to be a defeatist or just another ignorant slave.