Phillip Chesnut was asked this question by his wife, “If you were sterile and not able to conceive a child, but I could, would you want to utilize a sperm donor or just adopt?” Why was it so difficult for him to answer?
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My wife and I have a guilty pleasure of watching MTV shows. We are devoted fans of Teen Mom and 16 and Pregnant. I think we are infatuated with the drama of the situations and how they make the drama in our life seem pale in comparison. Trying to make up for the lack of teen mom shows this time of year, we began watching “Generation Cryo”. This is a show in which 17 year old Breeanna, a child conceived via anonymous sperm donation, logs into the Donor Sibling Registry and sets out on a journey to find her 15 half-siblings and, ultimately, her donor father.
My wife and I love drama shows, reality or fictional, and we usually end the episode with a lengthy philosophical discussion about the issues contained in the episode. In the latest episode, one of the half-sibling fathers discusses his feelings about the possibility of the donor father turning up. The dad breaks down into tears and explains that he has such strong feelings of sadness because his wife gave birth to the children and, therefore, shares something that only the anonymous sperm donor and her share with his children, DNA.
The question my wife asked after this moment was one of the most difficult questions I have ever had to answer: “If you were sterile and not able to conceive a child, but I could, would you want to utilize a sperm donor or just adopt?” Stating that she would want to be pregnant and have children naturally, her answer was easy, sperm donor. My answer was much, much more complicated to produce.
Yet, even though I was adopted by a loving family, when I pictured a scenario where my wife would share a genetic and emotional connection to our children and I would only share the emotional connection, I was completely saddened and emotionally destroyed by the thought.
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I must add that I was adopted as an infant by my wonderful loving family. DNA is something that we will never share but the love that they showed me formed a connection that is stronger than anything a few cells can produce. My wife and I are also currently completing an international adoption, so adoption is something that is constant in our minds and conversations. I have always accepted that adoption is a very loving and strong way to build a family and that love can create a wonderful connection between a parent and child whether DNA is involved or not. Yet, when I pictured a scenario where my wife would share a genetic and emotional connection to our children and I would only share the emotional connection, I was completely saddened and emotionally destroyed by the thought. I couldn’t understand why. If I am so completely comfortable with the fact that neither my wife nor I will share DNA with our adopted daughter, why am I so saddened and emotional if it were only me?
Then I remember the connections that were made between me, my wife and my two boys in the delivery rooms at the hospital. The intense love and awe that I felt for my wife as she gave birth to our children and the love that I felt for my sons that moment I looked at them and held them for the first time. I realize that those connections are made by love, not DNA. Being a loving dad doesn’t require DNA, it only requires a big heart. I think I could be a good donor for that.
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Photo by Peter Werkman / www.peterwerkman.nl / creative commons
Hi Erin, and thank you too. It truly is a heavy topic, it’s hard to express thoughts and feelings exactly. So I hope I get across somewhat coherent, too. 🙂 Yes, I understand that bringing forward your own DNA is an important issue for a lot of people. But it’s a multi-faceted issue, lots of reasons and feelings are involved, that’s why I was curious to hear a particular person’s reasons before taking it further. Since I imagine it is that much easier for a woman to get pregnant with a sperm donor, by IVF or by “natural means”, than… Read more »
Frankly, in this article, I am less interested in talking about legal reproductive rights. I am way more interested in men answering the question the writer’s wife asked of him. Which was if you could love and care for a child that did not share your DNA. We all know there are many issues with legal reproductive rights and when topics like this pop up, that’s all we ever seem to talk about. I’m interested this time, in a conversation that has less to do with legal matters and more to do with how men actually feel about children who… Read more »
Erin, Thanks for bringing us back to the topic at hand. This is a subject that I am planning on writing another post about in the future but I’ll share a few of my thoughts here. Having had two children biologically, I have experienced the instantaneous connection that takes place throughout the pregnancy process and at birth. It is an instant love connection that is nothing short of miraculous. On the other hand, for adoption families, I have heard from adoptive parents that this connection takes time. For our adoption, specifically, our daughter will be about 18 months old when… Read more »
Phillip, I am honestly sorry that the discussion became kind of ugly earlier. I concur with your summary. However I feel that with adoption a difference has to be made whether non or one parent is the biological one. I personally believe that both-parent adoption is easier, as it puts both parents in the same situation and is always an act of deliberated choice. In fact I sometimes consider it as a possiblity for myself (even thought my partner and me can probably get natural children, we haven’t tried yet). It is the inherent asymmetry of one-parent adoption that can… Read more »
Thank you for sharing Phillip! Yes, that makes total sense. I look forward to other pieces you may write. I never heard anyone explain it like you have and your insights are really helpful. I never even thought about what the child would feel being old enough to understand that she is being taken away from people who have been taking care of her to a different home. I think the idea of loving any of your children differently can be scary to parents. It’s a little scary to me and I’m not even a parent. Especially those that pride… Read more »
Alright. If you want it all, here is my answer: I could, if 1) the child was conceived/adopted with my informed consent (which is the scenario we are talking about) and 2) I were reasonably sure that my wife/partner would feel the same if she were in my shoes. If 2) were not the case, I would likely feel cheated and used and refuse my consent for the use of a sperm donor (in our scenario). You can call it petty, but quid pro quo is a principle I passionately believe in. If my wife excludes in principle that she… Read more »
Hi Erin, There is a vast amount of children all over the world being adopted or taken care of by others than their biological parents. And even if it may take time to connect, as Mr Chesnut points out above, I’d be hard pressed to say that adoptive fathers love their children any less than the mothers do, on a general level. On the contrary, since adoption requires so much more planning and preparation than having a biological child, I would guess that adopted kids are actually more anticipated and “loved”, in general. (Adoption rarely happens by accident, IME…) But… Read more »
Oh I never doubted that a father was capalbe of just as much love as a mother. I was just interested in men’s thoughts on the concern Phillip brought up. Thank you for sharing yours as well. I can not answer for all women but in the case of the woman being able to be pregnant and the man not being fertile, if she wanted her own DNA used and to have the experience of being pregnant, I can understand woman choosing this option. Of course, there also are situations where the woman is infertile and the man is not… Read more »
I am so happy to see that this article has spawned such a wonderful and opinionated debate. 21st century men are definitely stepping up more and the debate over reproductive rights for the father is a debate that must be held. Iben’s argument is very true in that women will always have an uphill struggle in society for equality to men. Especially in the workforce. I must agree with the opposite side of the argument though when it comes to reproductive rights. There are plenty of great fathers and great lesbian mothers that are unfairly punished in reproductive rights cases… Read more »
@Iben you said “What you describe It happens . Yes it happens. And it is sad and terrible but you also write about women as if we are more protected by the law than men. ” But IBEN , in Canada and the US women are more protected by law than men are. Right now in North America (not sure where you live) men have ZERO reproductive rights while women have many. Women are more protected by law. I would suspect that if you live in a western society Europe for example, you are also protected more by the law… Read more »
Reproductive rights are a very tricky subject, because the realities of biology make it basically impossible to have a gender-symmetrical legal situation. I do hope we all agree that the possibility of a man deciding that his wife must have an abortion is completely unacceptable. Likewise forcing her not to have an abortion. That leaves the issue of what is commonly termed financial abortion which is very tricky too, because that money is not meant for the woman’s benefit, but for the child’s. Anyway, this is a potentially endless, painful discussion, so we better do not even start it at… Read more »
The problem is that in LAW, the money is for the child but in reality it isn’t. The money is to supplement the custodial parent in raising their child. If you doubt this look at rich people, the amount of money a rich man will pay in CS far exceeds that which is necessary to raise and child and if he gets a raise, SHE gets more CS, even though it didn’t cost any more to raise the child since the increase in his salary. Also, there are ways to make it balanced, and yes , paper abortion is one… Read more »
Hi Jonh S.
✺”Also, there are ways to make it balanced, and yes , paper abortion is one of them. Men have ZERO reproductive rights in North America and biology can’t possibly justify that.”✺
Do you have any suggestions for new laws , or how men can get reproduction rights ?
Hi John Schtoll and FlyingKal It is hard for me to translate from Norwegian to English when they describe legal matters. But here is how I understand the law: http://www.farskap.no/no/lover-og-regler/ In other words. A married man in this country is automatically legally the child’s father, just like in other countries. But the laws also say: this legal fatherhood can be changed later at any time by the mother, by the child , by the man himself or a another man that claims he is the biological father. It looks like both parents must agree and sign a written form if… Read more »
Hi Iben, As far as I can tell from reading the link (save from any flaw in my Norwegian educatio), the law seems mostly identical to the one we have here in Sweden. (But the possibility for men to get their child support money returned if they’ve been assigned a “false” fatherhood was new to me.) And yes, with sufficient material provided, the legal fatherhood can be changed at any time. However, the caveat is (still) that to prove fatherhood, any man who is pointed out as a possible father is required by law to let himself be (DNA) tested… Read more »
Hi FlyingKal ✺”But a woman who is questioned for the fatherhood of her child by any man, has no legal obligations whatsoever to subject neither herself nor the child for testing of any kind.”✺ Maybe it is so in Sweden, but in Norway she can not say no. If anyone refuses to take the test,the police will come and make sure they do. And anyone can send in test online. Today it is impossible for women to “trick ” a man to father a child not his own. Any man can find out if he is the father. So men… Read more »
You bring up good points, Theo. The double-standard on fathers is saddening.
What I don’t like about that train of thought is the obvious implication, that if a wife cheats on the husband and gets pregnant from her lover, but does not tell her husband, he has no moral right to be angry if he later finds out he unwittingly raised his rival’s child. After all DNA connection is irrelevant, so no harm was done to him, right? So he better shut up and grit his teeth and be a good father figure. Also it reduces fatherhood to a mere social function that can be just as well be taken by anybody,… Read more »
Hi Theorema ✺”I am convinced, if there were a biological way of a woman unknowingly bearing a child that is genetically not hers, but another woman’s, it would be prohibited by law, in order to protect mothers. There is no way any woman could be expected to accept such a thing.”✺ Here a man writes a article about a fertile woman and a unfertil man, and ask if he could let her receive sperm from another man. They decides together . The man here know the sperm comes from another man. He can say yes,or no. But you write about… Read more »
There are 4 different scenarios. Men/woman knows/does not know. The article is about “man knows”. I mentioned the other three, of which one is impossible. In the end I asked about the other one “woman knows”, which is symmetrical to the one in the article.
Hi Theorema
Some societies today have death penalty for married woman that stray or worse are suspected to be unfaithful .
Men in those societies seems to have solved the problem, they get rid of both the woman and any possible small fetuses inside her body that they have no control over.
Yes. And neither of us is living in any such society, or doing anything to promote or facilitate the existence of such a society.
It kind of makes me angry and is very bad form of you to try to derail the discussion in such a blunt way. If your only contribution is to try to shame me into silence by implicitely blaming me for what happens in, say, Afghanistan, then we will not have a dialog. Call back when you are willing to talk in a respectful way, please!
Hi Theorema OK. But just remember that also women have feelings and emotional reactions when we often on this website read about men tell us women get pregnant with one man and let another man raise the child.as If this is how most women behave. I had emotional reactions when I read what you wrote! and wonder how much women has to feel guilty for. What you describe It happens . Yes it happens. And it is sad and terrible but you also write about women as if we are more protected by the law than men. I do feel… Read more »
Thank you for your levelheaded response! I never wrote “women do xyz”. I wrote, in fact, “if a woman does xyz”. I know very well it happens rarely (and I do not expect it to happen to me), but sometimes it does. I am afraid women have to train themselves to not take general statements like “if a woman …” personal; just like we men have to train ourselves to do the same. Let me tell you, I know it’s not easy; when I see subway stations filled with posters for women’s shelters with slogans like “when love hurts” or… Read more »
Theorema, you actually derailed the conversation from the start when instead of talking about the scenario in the actual article, you wanted to talk about all the other ones. Especially the one where you feel men are most wronged. Yet, you didn’t want to hear anything about the ways women are wronged. And frankly, Iben was nothing but respectful to you. You however have not been very respectful to her. I think the conversation was stopped for you before it even began.
Hi Erin Hi Erin Thank you. 🙂 Men are probably more worried in other countries than in mine. When I read up on laws and fatherhood I even found that here men get the money they paid for child support returned if they are not the biological father. Today it not at all difficult to identify a mans biological fatherhood , maybe the laws in other part of the world ignores DNA test. But I do react when some men are so focused on how women can fool them , steel the semen from the comdoms etc. I have never… Read more »
I guess I was not entirely on topic, as the article was about a very special, individual situation. I admit I have the tendency to read such articles as proposing a general rule. This was probably unwarranted, and a failure on my part. The general rule I saw was, “For fathers, biological parenthood should have no significance whatsoever”. What I wrote was about that general rule. I explained that I refuse such a general rule on two grounds: 1) That in certain (rare) cases it victimizes men. To which I got an “shut up because Taliban” response, which you endorsed… Read more »
Theorema
One more thing.
I know two lesbian women with a child.
In my country married lesbians can receive sperm from an unknown donor.
So here we have two mothers of a little boy. One gave her egg and carried him in his body and gave birth. The other mother has not given eggs. None of her DNA are in the son. They raise the child together.
I have asked myself , what happens if they get divorced . Will one mother feel more rights and more connections to the child ,than the other mother ? I don’t think so.
Truth is, we just don’t know, and without asking those two women (or others in the same situation) we will never find out.
@Iben: “I have asked myself , what happens if they get divorced . Will one mother feel more rights and more connections to the child ,than the other mother ? I don’t think so.” or they could be like this couple “Take the case of Virginia M. and Alison D., who had lived together three years when they decided to have a child through artificial insemination. At the baby’s birth in July 1981, they used both their last names on his birth certificate. Two and a half years later, the couple separated and the child remained with his birth mother,… Read more »
@John Gottman Schtoll: There was a similar case here in Sweden not that many years ago. A lesbian couple had a baby with a male acquaintance as the sperm donor (as assisted fertilization was not allowed for lesbians back then), signing a paper that the two mothers would take full custody of the vhild and he would have no legal responsibilities for it. After a couple of years, they separated. And in the legal turmoil of the divorce, the sperm donor was assigned fatherhood to the child, and required to pay child support to the biological mother who now had… Read more »
Loved your comment. Exactly what I felt like imediatly after the article and couldnt put it in words so well!