Patty Beach and Roger Toennis discuss the power in embracing the positive masculine traits while releasing the negative.
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The Feminist movement was about ending stereotypes and opening more options for women. While Feminism made many gains in diminishing negative stereotypes for women, it did the opposite for men and actually accentuated anti-male sentiment. Just walk through the aisles of any card shop or open Facebook and you will find a surprising number of pithy man-bashing statements that effectively equate to the message: “men are assholes”.
Meanwhile, there are also a significant number of videos and blog posts where male apologists are publically acknowledging the collective historical damage men have done to women and mankind including rape, pillage and genocide. With all the damage done, one might think it’s time to just wipe masculinity off the face of the earth. Yet another solution to the “problem of masculinity” is to redefine masculinity to include more traditionally feminine traits like nurturing and emotional sensitivity. But this approach is no different than if people didn’t like the primary color red and added the color blue to get purple; but still called the new color red! If that were to happen we would lose the language to accurately describe both red and purple. Not only is it confusing, redefining masculinity to mean “a combination of masculine and feminine traits” doesn’t solve the problem of undesirable masculine behaviors.
We would like to suggest another approach, that of returning to the core of masculinity as expressed in the masculine archetype and recognizing that while masculinity itself has a positive intent, it can be expressed in both positive and negative ways. If we can distinguish positive masculinity from negative masculinity we can throw out the “bath water” of negative masculinity without throwing out the “baby” of positive masculinity.
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The Masculine Archetype
In it’s most essential form masculine energy is all about focusing on the part while feminine energy is about focusing on the whole. All humans must do both to survive and while men tend to be more masculine, women can also be masculine. When we focus on the part side of the equation we are differentiating what something is from what it is not. Examples include competing (my team vs. your team), clarifying goals (shooting for this goal not that one) and defending territory (this part is mine). The symbol for the masculine archetype is the sword used to slice things into parts and the shield used to protect and defend.
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Separating the Baby from the Bath Water
Focusing on the part has many benefits. By focusing on my self, I become independent, self-actualized and able to fight foes and obstacles that threaten the existence of the parts I affiliate with. Positive masculinity occurs when I work hard in service of my self and my tribe. Like Teddy Roosevelt, John Wayne, and Joan of Arc positive masculine characters have a strong sense of self. These characters are often in pursuit of fulfilling a mission or reaching a clear goal. They know what they are fighting for and sacrifices happen for survival or for the greater good. Other positive masculine characters include the devoted father and the hard worker. These characters work to support and protect their family, company and community. They know what their part of the pie is and how to keep it secure.
Negative masculine characters like Hitler, Lord Valdemort and Nurse Rachet share many similarities with positive masculine characters. Both character types are self-assured, strong and relentlessly pursue clear goals. Where these two character types differ is that the positive masculine character pursues goals in a conscious manner that acknowledges the needs of the whole (e.g. neighboring tribes) and works to minimize net losses. In contrast, negative masculine characters pursue goals in a destructive manner with no consciousness that the needs of other parts of the whole matter. In short, the masculine (focusing on the part) must co-exist in a conscious way with the feminine (focusing on the whole) to stay on the positive side of the equation. Masculine energy absent feminine energy turns the admirable act of building something great into the selfish act of greed.
The recent killing of Cecil the Lion by an American big game hunter gives us the chance to examine negative masculinity in a longer historical context. At one point in history, the act of killing a lion was a needed to protect life and limb from a predatory pride that threatened the village. Killing a lion was a positive symbol of masculine strength and courage. But times change. In our modern time, killing an endangered animal of any kind for sport makes no sense. There is no part (e.g. tribe or life or limb) to be defended and this kind of act now puts the whole (the planet) at risk of loss of the African Lion and the ecosystem it supports. What isn’t good or bad is men, hunting or masculinity. What is bad is any act by any one that puts self above the needs of the whole.
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We can all reclaim the positive power of masculinity when we see it as a force that ensures survival, growth, protection and self-actualization that has a light (positive) side and shadow (negative) side. These two are distinct but separated only by a small shift in attitude from “only my needs matter ” to “my needs matter AND your needs matter”. When masculine energy (focusing on the part) is balanced by feminine energy (focusing on the whole) our faith and hope in men, masculinity and manliness is restored.
Photo credit: Flickr/larry
Here, Here, Barbara! Much appreciation for your words on the interdependent and woven dance of the Feminine and the Masculine, certainly in the human dimension, while also extending appreciation of this same yin/yang polarity present in all aspects of our universe. The healthy expression and integration of these principles, without compromising them or muting them is so important. Day is no less important than Night; Contraction is no less important than Expansion; Receiving is no less important than Giving; Relationship is no less important than Autonomy. All of these are uncompromising contrasting truths in our experience. The same can be… Read more »
Indeed!
Vive la difference’!!!
this is teh essence of V Factor and Patty and I are developing V Factor profiling tools for people to assess their ability to access and leverage both sides of this polarity at the same time.
We believe High V Factor people of any gender identity are more powerful in changing the world for the better and live happier lives.
This is our goal. To show the way to a High V Factor lifestyle for everyone of any gender identity.
Roger and Patty
To explain further, let me explain the Universal Law of Gender – A Universal Law is a ‘Natural law’/God Law and one unlike man-made law which is flawed and can be manipulated. What goes up WILL come down is kinda what were talking about…. The Law of Gender states that everything has its masculine and feminine principles, and they are the basis for all of creation. This law does not refer to the differences between men and women, and operates on the physical as well as spiritual planes. We see the two principles operating in heat, electricity, light, magnetism etc… Read more »
Perfect and poetically powerful in how you describe this!
Yes!
Roger and Patty
When all men, women and children of all creeds, colours and cultures make the effort to understand, identify, connect with and practice using their ‘feminine principle’ on a daily basis, spend time understanding and integrating the already dominant ‘masculine principle’ into this process (NOT by fighting or competing with it or trying to demean it in any way) and thus looking for and finding a healthy balance of both, I will celebrate a day not for women alone, but for human beings who have learned to live life in evolved and conscious balance.
Hear Hear Barbara! 🙂
Yes exactly right. That is what Patty and I are doing. We are working to create a simple but powerful addition to the language and model of gender that allows people to more precisely and powerfully evolved and conscious balance. We call this the Versatility Factor or V Factor. When you achieve that’s evolved and conscious balance you mention you have a high V Factor. Stay tuned for more.
Roger and Patty
Since the events leading up to and surrounding Mr. Jordan’s decision to sign with the Clippers, I’ve desired to articulate how highly I think of Jordan’s and the Clippers’ individual and collective examples of what it means to be a “good man” in today’s world. For many people in modern American society, NBA players represent the pinnacle of masculinity – muscled, driven, competitive and focused. By contrast, D.J.’s decision to contact his inner circle during his time of need is a much rarer display of modern masculinity. This is exactly why it’s so important to consider Mr. Jordan’s sentiments in… Read more »
MB, We also find it interesting that our use of mankind to be so offending. Why is the word mankind as used as synonym more offensive than the word human or humanity? Don’t all of these words use the word man as a root word to mean men and women? In fact, even the word women includes the word men as a root word. I think the fault is not so much with our usage of these commonly understood words as it is with the fact that the English language is just too abstract and reductive. Other languages are much… Read more »
Hi MB, Thanks for your challenges to our comments about Feminism. If our post led you to believe we think Feminism is a bad thing, we understand how you may have gotten that impression but it’s not what we believe. We believe like you, that the goals of Feminism and in many case the real world outcomes for men from feminism were also positive for men. But with those positives there were also negative outcomes for men that weren’t necessary in order to increase opportunities for women. Feminism and the Men’s movement have an important role to play in evolving… Read more »
Someone mentioned men’s lack of options and took the example :wearing make up.
I think you should look at make up artist Wayne Goss on YouTube .
Teaches both men and women how to put on make up,
m.youtube.com/watch?v=TBZgKOqnPFs
I disagree with the authors’ comments about feminism. The feminist movement has been great for men. It has given men more opportunities to show their “vulnerable” emotions, to be more involved with their kids, to help a woman reach her top potential as a leader without being “emasculated”. It has helped men to pay attention to men’s health issues, it has enabled husbands to get a share of their spouses’ pension benefits, it has removed some of the stigma from being a househusband, it has enabled men to get into “female” professions such as nursing . . . the list… Read more »
I don’t know if you’re old emough mb, but in the mid years of the FM it was a clear message. A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle. That message carried over well into the 90’s when a backlash started. Your focus on mankind as a pejorative comes directly from that 70’s fish story. Man has been used since literally time began as a generic drscription of 6he species of animals we call hu-mans. Not a delineation of gender at all, but our strongly focused PC world is making it so
If that is the case then why are feminists so against men trying to improve their lot in life without the banner or label of feminism?
Obviously Patty and Roger, you’ve struck a major chord here. Run with it. Define it in a way that gets understood and you will impact millions. Most of it is here. Yin and yang will not be well understood in the west. M/F energy neither. But maybe humanist focus will be what can drive this. Lets define a human first then the descriptors of what humans fo, be they male or female. At this point in my life i have decided to learn what it means to be human. Then i can know what a human male is to be.… Read more »
Mark, Thank you so much for this comment and your encouragement. This work is definitely a volatile topic but we want everyone to know it is our goal to have it impact everyone in a positive way and to help men and women and people of all gender identities. Patty and I have a deep respect and reverence for both the sacred feminine and the sacred masculine and also compassion and empathy for everyone in their life struggles around gender topics. We really all in this together folks. For you Mark, Patty and I are intrigued by your comments about… Read more »
Patty and Roger. I’d be happy to further a conversation with you, i suppose it’d be easier via email, but its up to you. I believe the gender discussion is going to change drastically in the next 5 years, which is why i said to tom we’re like pioneers here. I believe macho as we know it is a dying breed and will usher in a new version of humanity. I believe logic and reason will be valued over strength and manipulation, and as such collaboration, a more described feminine trait will be the norm to be lauded. Mark
I always thought of the masculine as doing energy and the feminine as feeling energy. Men would go out and build a house and women would make it a home type thing. It was like you inferred the feminine guiding and tempering the masculine. When feminine energy got unfocused and became more doing, it unfocused masculine energy. Men can’t count on women for their focus anymore. Men have to find their own focus.
JohnH is right emotional energy doesn’t have a gender. This doesn’t mean that different types of emotional energy shouldn’t be described as masculine or feminine. The terms yin and yang in Taoist philosophy are synonyms for feminine and masculine in our English language. Understanding masculine and feminine as archetypes that describe opposite energies helps us manage imbalances across gender lines. For example Roger and I can become too masculine (yang) when we compete with each other or don’t get enough down time. When this happens we can correct the imbalance by shifting to more feminine (yin) behaviors like listening and… Read more »
The Men’s Rights movement doesn’t speak for all men anymore than the feminist movement speaks for all women. Each movement claims to represent roughly half of the human race. The population of men and the population of women are simply too large for a single movement to represent the interests of these two genders. There’s simply too much diversity in both populations, and there are more than a single path to masculinity. Sure, the Men’s Rights movement has addressed legitimate issues (such as child custody) just as the feminist movement has done. But really the Men’s Rights movement is just… Read more »
@ Bill,
You are a voice of reason…
Honestly, at 50+ I have never given a single thought to this masculinity thing….I am who I am: a man. A man who has tried to embody the best of humankind: intelligence, kindness, compassion, generosity, etc. Sure I love football, hunting, fishing, camping……But, I also love reading short stories and erotica (Violet Blue)…Just “Be You!”
We should all, men and women, strive to become better people. Once you stop working on yourself, you cease to grow as a person. Once that happens, the end is near!
Jules
I agree with all your points. But what I would also say is that if we all also understand how the masculine/feminine polarity model works, and we all know have to leverage it as individuals, as couples and in teams, communities, we become empowered to do more positive in the world than if we avoid gender for fear of inciting more gender wars.
Check out our other articles in GMP and see more about what I’m talking about here.
Thanks for commenting!!
Roger
@ Bill I can tell you don’t spend any time on MRA sites probably only on sites that are anti-MRM and distort what MRAs are about. How can I tell? Because MRAs don’t make distinctions. Black men are men. Gay men are men. When men are victimized their victimizers are vilified in the MRM. We don’t make distinctions for who the abuser is. It’s actually feminists who’ve chose to divide people into distinct groups and on occasion pit them against each other. MRAs called female MRAs MRAs. Feminists call male feminists allies (not feminists). Do you know how the MRM… Read more »
Emotional energy does not have gender. Our dualist world is roughly divided on a sliding scale between yang (assertive energy) and yin (receptive energy). Biologically and sociologically we generally embody yang traits in males and yin in females, but each has both and requires both to survive. True, feminism has skewed the scale toward the yin while vilifying the yang, but, as your article states, it is a balance within either gender that needs consideration. Giving gender to such traits as assertiveness and receptivity just aggravates the polarity of the gender wars and increases the likelihood of transference of shadow… Read more »
I think the author is so far away from it, that he is creating this melancholy behavior and causing not only himself but other men to feel bad. It’s all in your head gents. Since when is self-determination and pursuit of personal goals a masculine feature. You my dear author are contributing to sexism and what you call male melancholia. Its not so much a problem of gender identification as it is a problem of self-definition. Men and women today have the opportunity to define who they are separate from age old gender norms. All this men are loosing, women… Read more »
Wow!
@ George,
“….but those that are happiest are those who don’t mold themselves just so they can be validated by a future girlfriend or wife. Boomshakalaka!”
Preach!!! LOL!
You are 100% correct.
I have said it many times before: men need to cease and desist with this notion that their entire identity is tied to a woman and/or women. We men should be looking for a partner (woman) who is willing to take us as we are….not someone who we must mold ourselves to fit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzNiE3ZUHdk
This song applies equally to men….
But Bill you don’t seem to mind it being defined by feminists.
yeah i want to be my own man . defined by what i say. i dont want my masculinity defined or redefined by any individual or panel of women thanks. UGH! why is this site so anti-men?
It’s not as much that they’re “anti-male” but much of what they express is from a females perspective and/or a feminist perspective.
yeah i want to be my own man . defined by what i say. i dont want my masculinity defined or redefined by OTHER GUYS thanks.
As a child of the 60’s I grew up within a community of mothers who blamed men for everything. I carried a guilt for my being male. Oppression, rape, abuse – I have always felt guilt. No longer. I do not need the approval of women nor do I seek it. I am committed to being true to my masculine identity – building things etc. and supporting my male friends/relatives in exploring their masculinity without women looking over our shoulders. Male behaviour has always been predicated on caring what women think and trying to please them. Women are afraid of… Read more »
Well stated singular! I’m right with ya.
I suggest we form an organization to deal with the victimization and oppression of boys and men. (Of course, we realize that we males never oppress or victimize other males. We’ve always been so inclusive of our fellow males. Yep, a regular brotherhood. No, the only aggressors in that regard are females.) We could call this organization the NAARM — the National Association for the Advancement of Real Men(TM). :eyes:
@ Bill I’ve got a better idea. We should all be feminists because they care about men’s issues too and once they tackle that huge scrounge called manspreading I’m sure they’ll look at the lesser issues befalling society like male suicide. Oh wait, they already tackled that according to feminist Julie Burchill. “That young men succeed in suicide more often than girls isn’t really the point. Indeed, the more callous among us would say that it was quite nice for young men finally to find something that they’re better at than girls. ” “The last time I suggested that suicides… Read more »
There’s already a ‘movement’ if you want to refer to it as that, underway. In fact, it’s been underway for a while now. It’s not loud like those Feminist parades of the 60’s and 70’s. Nor is it organized. The media referes to it as M.G.T.O.W., (men going their own way). Young men, individually, have viewed the ‘terrain’ so to speak and said “No Thanks” and basically employed the one option we all posses, to walk away.
Must be really quiet bobbt, as i haven’t heard the media even refer to anything like mgtow. I have observed it yet i see the rolling of eyes when it is expressed. I think the media does have so much to offer changing values. A well plced article here and there could shift perceptions very quickly.
Btw. You can still be that guy. It’s just not as relevant any more and the women won’t buy into it either. Its a dying breed tom, and overall dying for the right reasons. Even if it doesn’t seem so right now. Nobody is asking a man to wear high heels and a dress to clean the house waiting with a cocktail when wifey comes home from a hard day at the office. But man you simply have to pony up to be a true partner in yhe life you’ll create.
I think you’re on the right track here. Tom, for better wirse, it was simpler but not as holistic, and that’s where we’re going as as a species. Its really not feminine or masculine we’re talking about. Its humanism. But to be stuck in either this or that and thats all it should be is archaic at best. Ignorant at worst. I like your simpliciry. They were good times for what they were. At the time. But in reality, overall they were a facade that served no one. The men worked their asses off and missed out on what a… Read more »
Hi Tom, I hear your melancholy. Things are a lot more complicated now. More options are available for men and women, but we’ve also lost some of the peace that comes from simplicity.
You are so right, it isn’t fair to judge all men based on the foolishness of a few. Media is so addicted to negative messages, positive stories seldom get told. Hopefully this site creates a forum for some of those stories to get out and for us to remember that good men are still everywhere.
Patty. Please be really honest here. There are alot more options for women. Men seem to have options too, but not teally real options. women deride those options for men, men detide the options for men and only the strongest of men can withstand the onslaught of derision. Those are the real men but hardly anybody recognizes them for it. To most, let me be blunt, they are pussies. Ie women and not men. See what i mean?
You don’t believe there is a rape culture? So, how are rape victims, male and female, treated in society? Do they receive the moral support they need, or are they often treated shabbily by society? How was the rape victim in the Steubenville scandal treated? Didn’t she receive death threats?
Of course, the “blame the victim” mentality seems to be supported by women as well.
Bill: Rape victims aer believed, there are special laws setup to allow them to testify without facing the person they are accusing. There are special laws in place so that they credability is harder to call into question.
If someone stole your car 8 years ago, do you think that a police officer would take you seriously now.
Gosh, I miss the days when a guy could just be a guy and be okay with being a guy. The days when we worked our asses off at work, came home and loved the hell out of our families and didn’t have to think about what it means to be a man. Back in those days, men weren’t discriminated against because society accepted them for who they were and didn’t judge the entire male species bases upon a minority of men. I’m so happy that I grew up in a time where we didn’t have to second guess who… Read more »
I don’t miss them. I just live them everyday. You have to just tune out the static sometimes. And yeah there are a lot of boys and men getting hurt by it all. You save who you can.
Patty. Please be really honest here. There are alot more options for women. Men seem to have options too, but not really real options. women deride those options for men, men detide the options for men and only the strongest of men can withstand the onslaught of derision. Those are the real men but hardly anybody recognizes them for it. To most, let me be blunt, they are pussies. Ie women and not men. See what i mean?
Hi Mark, I totally see what you mean and what you say is true. While feminism opened the box for women, the box for men remains tight. Both men and women have a role to play in that. The work Roger and I do is focused on the conversation about how both men and women can broaden themselves and improve partnerships by growing masculine and feminine strengths in balance. If our culture does not support men to step into a broader box, as women do this creates a lack of balance and resentments.
Thanks for the comprehensive reply, Patty . Godspeed for yours and Roger’s work. This is an important issue for men to gully embrace women as equals. Women will truly not be seen as such intil they raise themselves by accepting men as more than just stereotypical archetypes. For how can men be less than men in the eyes of both men and more importantly women if the women don’t see them as such either? That implies that in teality, women see themselves as less than as a result. They may not understand the subtlety of that but it speaks volumes… Read more »
Mark
May I ask what you mean when you say there are more options for women?
Do you mean women can enter more tradition professions. ,or do you mean that women can be stay at home moms if they are married and have children ( or be single mothers ).
Or maybe you think of something else?
Personally I can not see how I have more options than men..
Typo
More traditional professions for men
Silke, We still live in a world where if a man and a women are married with no kids and the wife decides to stay home, she’s seen as making a choice. But if the man decides to stay home, he’s a lazy bum. I’ve experienced feminism for 40 years now. Women were taught to understand that their value goes far beyond the confines of a home. Women have been nurtured and encouraged throughout the years on countless levels. Men … not. Running parallel to women’s development, men have been derided, labeled and in some cases seen as in general… Read more »
Tom, Yes you very eloquently express what it has felt like at times to be a man the last 40 years and feel like you have to dodge bullets left and right. So I hear you. I resonate with your statement “In 40 years, very little has been done to further develop men.” And you are right that the accountability for this is spread between men and women. Men must want “workshops for men” and women must support men wanting those without felling it diminishes them. Just as with feminist goals women must want them and men must support women… Read more »
Tom
I am Norwegian and have never heard anyone call a stay at home dad a bum.
But do men want to stay at home , and loose out in the rat race ?
Do men want to leave their chances for a career and take care of their children full time for some years ? Do they ?
I have never heard a man express that longing .
So men must speak up and tell us if this is what they want more than anything else.
@ Tom, “Go to a news stand and count the number of women’s magazines and then count men’s.” Are not the men’s magazines there but hidden? Hustler, Playboy, Penthouse…etc..LOL Just kidding…I agree with the general tenor of what you are saying, especially about how men are increasing derided, etc. …But, ultimately we all control our destiny..Honestly, I have learned to just tune out a lot of crap. Why? Because, that’s what I see it as…Yes, you have to be tough to stand in there sometimes. What most frustrates me Tom is that very few men are really complaining loudly enough… Read more »
Silke, i teally like your thoughts, heard many times in different articles. Options for women i agree with Tom. Professions, and personal are all options for women. Even today male nurses are thought as somewhat less than, but female doctors are applauded. I typically go to female doctors because i like their manners in genrral, and don’t fear or feel judgements. What do you say about a personal beauty grooming. Is men wearing makeup or a skirt a non issue, or does one automatically judge. Women don’t even 5hink about it. Now of course that’s very superficial but important nonetheless.… Read more »
If you’re really that way, pursuit, and not just pretening then i say have at it. You will appeal to alot of women stuck between what they want for themselves and what society says they should be. A bad boy to be sure. But if you’re real with yourself then thats fine but not if you’re buying into what they say you should br luke to be that kind of man. Do you accept the sensitive man today? The one that cries at sad movies, or is he not a man enough for you. I look at a ma and… Read more »
PursuitAce, At my age, I’ve been able to filter for many years and that’s good for me. My son, thank God, appears to be filtering as well in that he and I are often on the same page. Mark, I’m 60 years old and I can tell you that men you described are men that I have encountered throughout my life and I should also note, encountered growing up. Yes, men have been taught to to show restraint and accordingly have a tendency to be more discerning as to when and where they show emotions. It’s not that they don’t… Read more »
I’m 60 also tom. And i agree with you. Times are changing. I think we’re in a frontiersman role hete. Not in either world. I was way ahead of my time and suffered for it. 40 years later I find i’m ok with myself as the culture caught up with who i am. But not quite. But at 60 i teally don’t give a rat’s butt as i will be on this planet for maybe 25 years at best.
I’m ultra-sensitive. I cry at NYPD Blue episodes. Not interested in appealing to women. Dislike bad boys (My son had a run in with one a couple of weeks ago.). I prefer Sir Gallahad over Sir Lancelot. I like cooking and to do my own laundry. I’m most nurturing towards kids, not so much women. And blah, blah, blah, that’s all I can stand talking about myself. The stock market volatility is done, and a drip system awaits.
Lol. I like you already pursuit! I tear at bluebloods too for the emotional destruction. Don’t get me syarted on hill street blues!!!
Ace, I agree with you that there is real value in “rising above the fray”, “taking the high road” and staying focused ans steady. This kind of approach you are taking is is in fact a positive trait of the masculine archetype. This is a positive and productive focus on the “self” because you are focusing on controlling your emotional state in the face of of the “static”. The feminine positive trait you can add to this behavior to maximize your positive impact is to look for the other boys and men who are unlike you, struggling with the static… Read more »
I get sick and tired of human traits being labeled as either “masculine” or “feminine.” “Cruelty is a masculine trait.” No, it’s a HUMAN trait. “Compassion is a feminine trait.” No, it’s a HUMAN trait. I’m also sick and tired of the claim that “traditional males” are under constant attack. Baloney! “Masculinity is Under Attack. Can it Be Saved?” Oh, please. Get real! Were “traditionally masculine” boys ever bullied? Certainly not as often as boys who strayed outside The Box. Even with regard to only a single point. Not a word was said in their defense while many of the… Read more »
Hi Bill, I understand your frustration with the current model of labeling human traits as masculine or feminine versus just “human” traits. The core problem in that is we have this strong, but in reality FALSE, belief that if a negative human trait is labeled masculine that it reflects poorly on men/males. Same with feminine. if a negative trait is called feminine we have again a false belief that this reflects negatively on women/females. The only way out of this and the only way to ultimately resolve this “gender finger-pointing” is to go back to the ancient and accurate definitions… Read more »
Can you name a negative trait labeled Feminine? I’ve never come across one.
Passive Aggressive is one that we would call “Feminine negative” or “shadow feminine”.
Again though people need to understand that we are decoupling male/female form masculine/feminine.
We all know both men and women who are passive aggressive. This is our point. male/female does not equal masculine feminine.
But is very valuable to define human traits and behaviors, for both men and women, whther LBGTQ or otherwise, as masculine or feminine to better understand gender energy dynamics for any human with any unique gender identity.
This is the power of V Factor. The new calculus of gender dynamics.
“Back in those days, men weren’t discriminated against because society accepted them for who they were and didn’t judge the entire male species bases upon a minority of men.” I don’t think women dealt with heavy oppression because of a ‘minority of men’. I don’t think the issues women confront on a daily basis are always because of a ‘minority of men’ either. I am not saying men are ‘bad”. But what I am saying is that clearly there was a learning curve men needed to (and still do) in how they treated/saw/related to women. The same can be said… Read more »
Erin, Thanks for commenting on our article. I really love the parts of your comments where you talk about both men and women needing to work on their learning curves on how to treat the opposite sex. The only part of your comments I wanted to talk to was where you talk about the need for men to give up “privilege” so that women can have some. I believe that if we figure out how to fully leverage men and women and both the masculine and feminine, with mutual respect for both, that “privilege and opportunity” for all become unlimited.… Read more »
“Gender power done correctly and cooperatively is not a win/lose proposition. It is win/win.” I hope I didn’t give you the impression that i was shooting for a win/loose proposition. I wasn’t. I think it’s possible for both genders to live in a win/win situation. But I do believe that for that to happen, men *did* have to loose some of the privilege they have been granted through society. Okay Bobbt. You don’t like feminism. While we have different ideas of what Feminism is (I don’t think has anything to do with lacking ‘accountability), I have some sincere questions for… Read more »
@ Erin I think he was referring to how people like Erin Pizzey were treated. Pizzey granted was a feminist (there weren’t really any other gender movements at the time) and maybe still is (though she’s very prominent in the MRM) who advocated for domestic violence shelters for women. She got them then quickly realized that men needed support also. Her feminist support quickly eroded as main stream feminists decided that it was better (for women) to hide male victimization. I would propose that in this instance it would have served everyone’s interest had feminists not blocked the establishment of… Read more »
Erin, Thanks for clarifying on win/win versus win/lose. The challenge though is a lot of good men who weren’t abusing their gender power do feel they have lost something unfairly. The thing they feel they lost is the space to feel like its’ still OK to be a man in what Patty and I call a “masculine positive” way. Yes, all men must be held accountable for not exhibiting the masculine negative traits that were more visible and common say in the 50s; and before feminism got traction. But in the feminism movement process of those negative masculine traits being… Read more »
@ Erin
Men aren’t struggling with the loss of privilege. They’re struggling with the loss of privilege not balanced by an equal reduction in responsibility, which is putting them at a disadvantage.
.bingo, john
Feminism= empowerment-accountability!