Damon Young on how to remedy the distrust of women’s feelings.
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It took five months of marriage, eight months of being engaged, and another year of whatever the hell we were doing before we got engaged for me to learn something about my wife. Actually, that’s misleading. I’ve learned many things about my wife in that time period. I learned that she owns both a snuggie and a onesie. And I learned that she’s prone to wearing both of them at the same time. But, there’s one thing in particular that didn’t quite dawn on me until last week.
Panama and I were talking about the Rolling Stone story controversy. It eventually segued to Cosby, which then segued into a realization that there’s a common thread in each of these types of stories and the tenor of the conversations surrounding them.
Trust. Well, the lack thereof. Generally speaking, we (men) do not believe things when they’re told to us by women. Well, women other than our mothers or teachers or any other woman who happens to be an established authority figure. Do we think women are pathological liars? No. But, does it generally take longer for us to believe something if a woman tells it to us than it would if a man told us the exact same thing? Definitely!
This conversation is how, after five months of marriage, eight months of being engaged, and another year of whatever the hell we were doing before we got engaged, I realized I don’t trust my wife.
When the concept of trust is brought up, it’s usually framed in the context of actions; of what we think a person is capable of doing. If you trust someone, it means you trust them not to cheat. Or steal. Or lie. Or smother you in your sleep. By this measure, I definitely trust my wife. I trust the shit out of her. I also trust her opinions about important things. I trusted that she’d make a great wife, and a trust that she’ll be a great mother. And I trust that her manicotti won’t kill me.
But you know what I don’t really trust? What I’ve never actually trusted with any women I’ve been with? Her feelings.
If she approaches me pissed about something, my first reaction is “What’s wrong?”
My typical second reaction? Before she even gets the opportunity to tell me what’s wrong? “She’s probably overreacting.”
My typical third reaction? After she expresses what’s wrong? “Ok. I hear what you’re saying, and I’ll help. But whatever you’re upset about probably really isn’t that serious.”
I’m both smart and sane, so I don’t actually say any of this aloud. But I am often thinking it. Until she convinces me otherwise, I assume that her emotional reaction to a situation is disproportionate to my opinion of what level of emotional reaction the situation calls for. Basically, if she’s on eight, I assume the situation is really a six.
I’m speaking of my own relationship, but I know I’m not alone. The theme that women’s feelings aren’t really to be trusted by men drives (an estimated) 72.81% of the sitcoms we watch, 31.2% of the books we read, and 98.9% of the conversations men have with other men about the women in their lives. Basically, women are crazy, and we are not. Although many women seem to be very annoyed by it, it’s generally depicted as one of those cute and innocuous differences between the sexes.
And perhaps it would be, if it were limited to feelings about the dishes or taking out the garbage. But, this distrust can be pervasive, spreading to a general skepticism about the truthfulness of their own accounts of their own experiences. If women’s feelings aren’t really to be trusted, then naturally their recollections of certain things that have happened to them aren’t really to be trusted either.
This is part of the reason why it took an entire high school football team full of women for some of us to finally just consider that Bill Cosby might not be Cliff Huxtable. It’s how, despite hearing complaints about it from girlfriends, homegirls, cousins, wives, and classmates, so many of us refused to believe how serious street harassment can be until we saw it with our own eyes. It’s why we needed to see actual video evidence before believing the things women had been saying for years about R. Kelly.
There’s an obvious parallel here with the way (many) men typically regard women’s feelings and the way (many) Whites typically regard the feelings of non-Whites. It seems like every other day I’m reading about a new poll or study showing that (many) Whites don’t believe anything Black people say about anything race/racism-related until they see it with their own eyes. Personal accounts and expressions of feelings are rationalized away; only “facts” that have been carefully vetted and verified by other Whites and certain “acceptable” Blacks are to be believed.
So how do we remedy this? And can it even be remedied? I don’t know. This distrust of women’s feelings is so ingrained, so commonplace that I’m not even sure we (men) realize it exists. I can do one thing, though. The next time my wife tells me how upset she is about something I’m not sure she should be that upset about, trust her. After five months of marriage, eight months of being engaged, and another year of whatever the hell we were doing before we got engaged, it’s the least I can do.
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This article originally appeared on Very Smart Brothas
Photo credit: Erin Benson/flickr
I found this article by googling “I inherently trust women and distrust men, even when the women wish me harm.” As such the entire premise of the article is wrong. Mind you, I didn’t bother to read it, so I could be wrong and my trust in women might be shaken by this article if I were to read it and if I had my trust shaken I’d be unhappy so I think I’ll read it because I’m confused and I wonder how you people think because I don’t think the same way.
The problem is this you don’t trust her feelings because when compared to yours, she is over reacting. That doesn’t mean the problem isn’t that men are taught to suppress their emotions. I’ve been told before that women don’t necessarily want you to fix it. They just want you to listen. Still, I can’t square that with better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. Seems to me like cursing the darkness. That could be the other problem. Guys are efficient. They solve problems and move on. Your girl friend likes to dwell on them.
If women want to be trusted then they should not bash men.
Tim, do you believe that there aren’t men out there that don’t bash women as well? *scratches head*
And you don’t believe there are women out there that bash men?
Tim, will answer your question even though you did not answer mine. Perhaps you can answer mine after i’ve answered yours.
Of course there are women out there that bash men. But you are the one that but contingencies on women specifically being trusted on the basis of women specifically bashing men. The fact that some women bash men, or that some men bash women, does not mean that there can not be trust between men and women in general.
It is not a surprise that men don’t trust women when they are cheaters and abusive.
Damon
A good article.
I wonder if this phenomena is one important reason why women initiate divorce and the husband tells everybody he had no idea what was coming.
I did.
I never accurd to me that my husband did not trust me and my feelings, but I saw clearly that he thought they were of no importanse.
I am not sure this is that men distrust women when we show feelings, .
I think maybe it is more disrespect .
I don’t think its disrespect. Many men, myself included, walk on egg shells about women’s feelings. When my wife asks “am i getting fat?” there is no way I would answer yes even if it were true (for the record, once I did honestly answer yes and it lead to so much grief). Why ask a question that you don’t want a truthful answer too?
Josh this happens to both men and women.
The man ask if she wants to make love and her honest answer is “NO” ,that causes a lot of grief also.
I guess he dare not ask if she is not still attracted to him, because an honest answer to that question will cause grief, and big trouble…
This was clearly written by an American, were racism is built into the culture.
A Canadian would never have had these two subjects in the same article, not matter what the supposed parallel.
So true what you’ve said, for racism goes hand in hand with misogyny,; the belief that women cannot be counted on to know or decided what is going on in their world, let alone who they should mate with. Therefore they must be predestined, and in the case of Americans indoctrinated, into accepting physiological warfare so as to convince them of exactly what is that which will be good for them. The ingraining is so prevalent in that culture, a term called gaslighting has circulated to describe the assault on womens senses and sensibilities, it points to purposefully discrediting them,… Read more »
🙂
This is one of those articles that is perfectly true, but ultimately one-sided. I think it’s accurate to say that many men don’t trust women to be logical and reasonable. I think it’s fair to say that it would be good if men could trust women more, and respect their opinions. But one could say the same about women trusting that men aren’t ravenous sex hounds. And it might be good if women wouldn’t just assume the worst about us. I’m certain that many women are fair and logical, just as I’m certain that many men are moral and mature.… Read more »
Excellent article Damon. I would say this issue isn’t just a lack of trust but it is also about a certain level of condescension toward women in minimizing their experiences and feelings and a hidden lack of respect. (As you pointed out we also see this in issues of race where the dominant group dismisses the minority.) I can’t tell you how many times I’ve experienced this, where a man thought he “knew better” then me and pretty much told me so in some carefully crafted words. I’ve encountered this issue in many kinds of relationships with men. From the… Read more »
Ideally, I would agree with what you say, Erin. But I think it’s a matter of capacity and reality. I believe women are perfectly capable of logical and objective reasoning, and that men are quite capable of emotions, for good or bad. That said, for good or bad, our culture keeps men from being emotional, while it allows women to be illogical. It’s not untrue that more women than men allow their emotions to dictate their reasoning, and that women often use their cultural status as emotionally fragile to get what they want. The reason I don’t like this article… Read more »
I don’t think it’s so much that our culture “allows women to be illogical”, so much as it’s that our cultural norms rest on the belief that women are illogical. That’s a key kind of difference, because the one merely excuses laxity while the other assumes it. One fundamental error I see in the use of this type of reasoning is that emotions do not imply lack of logic. It is this conflation of emotion with lack of logic that feeds into stereotypical norms of what male and female are supposed to be (according to ideological norms – I don’t… Read more »
You may be a fair and logical person: as I’ve said, women are perfectly capable of being so, and there are many wonderful women who understand how to balance their emotions with logic (my CURRENT wife is one). And men are certainly capable of putting their emotions above their better judgment. But if men (and women) are convinced that women ARE illogical, it’s not simply because fathers are talking to their sons saying that women are illogical, it’s because so many women are hiding behind their emotions to avoid logical argument and to manipulate people in order to get what… Read more »
Paul
You say culture permit women to be illogical.
Can you give us five good examples ?
“That said, for good or bad, our culture keeps men from being emotional, while it allows women to be illogical.” Can you provide examples that back this comment up? I don’t even have a clue what you mean when you say “women are allowed to be illogical”. Can you provide examples of how women are allowed to be illogical? I see that Silke asked for you to provide examples too. Could you answer our question? Because as it stands, I find your comments extremely disturbing with an extremely false narrative, Paul. I also find them completely inhumane to both men… Read more »
Erin
To say women are illogical is polite way to say women are stupid.
And it is typical PUA talk:
Women lack the ability to think rationally.
Women have a deficiency in the power of reasoning…..
I wonder how all these women that graduate from college and universities manage to do so with this severe handicap ?
And frankly I wonder how men choose the women they have relationship with since their experience is that all women are so stupid , and can not draw a logical conclution based on some facts.
Silke – I couldn’t agree more. I am totally stunned by Paul’s response and this is the exact issue permeating our culture in how some men apparently view women as being less then them. Paul tries to make it sound like a good argument by putting in quips about women’s ability to be logical but his fundemental belief that women aren’t logical is literally stunning in it’s prejudice. And lets be honest, the belief that women are illogical is a prejudice against women. How in the world do women manage to survive in the world with all their logicalness –… Read more »
I don’ think it’s an issue of general distrust, not about your wife’s feelings, not about any other woman’s either.
It’s an issue of different interpretations of a situation where you don’t agree because you have different references.
Ask yourself how often your wife doesn’t trust you, in issues whee you don’t agree with each other?
We are often told that there’s no right and wrong regarding feelings. But this article claims to lay the ground that in a disagreement, the man is always wrong.
Excellent article. Disturbed by how far this mistrust goes for some of the commenters.
Couldn’t possibly be an actual reason for THAT now could there?
Upon reading this I am both disheartened and yet grateful for such an honest admission of what is probably a core problem between men and women, esp. here in the U.S. Maybe worldwide, I don’t know. It makes sense to me even though this is wholly illogical to feel/think this way about women but is probably a by-product of a culture/world that inherently doesn’t respect women as even remotely equal people much less value them beyond what they can give to men. If men tend to stifle and shame overt emotions both in themselves and others, to think of them… Read more »
Ideology has poisoned the well. Remove that, and we can work on women regaining the trust of men.
Check your copy, guys. Excellent article, but the doubling up on paragraphs is distracting to the reader.
Good catch!! Thank you so much for the note – all fixed. That would be super distracting!
I don’t trust Bill Cosby….I doubt anyone would want to leave a young daughter alone with him….
Cosby must be an evil genius. What is he up to now? 35 rapes is it? And no one bothered until now to come forward?
Trust is overrated anyway. It can be all of these things – gained easily, lost easily, never given, never had, had and lost, lost and regained, stolen, misplaced, forgotten, wished for, begged and borrowed.
I generally trust my neighbors, but I still have a password on my Wi-Fi
I have had a very similar experience in my relationships, including in my relationship with my wife. To some degree, it is harder to trust someone whose reactions to events are different from mine. It is also hard to fully trust the words of someone who has a much more complex, nuanced relationship with emotional language than I do. There is still an expectation of my giving “The Right Answer” to a particular question or “Saying The Right Thing” in any particular circumstance. Of course she doesn’t want me to lie or be insincere (wink wink) but still seems to… Read more »
I guess the next logical question is: How much do women trust men? How much do they trust our assessment of our own experiences?
That’s a tough question to answer, 8ball, in part because of ideologically pervasive norms that posit women’s experience as being fundamentally inferior in the first place. Studies have shown that in the traditional American family (which I am by no means invoking as the ideal family, just so we are clear), women are not only more often problematized than their husbands – they often self-select themselves as subject to their husbands’ assessment and judgment, often in front of the kids. Men and women perpetuate this embedded practice of “Father Knows Best”, while the kids sitting around the table learn that… Read more »
I’m sorry,I just don’t think I’ll ever be able to trust any woman, even my wife of 40 years (who I love very much) like I’ve been able to trust certain men in my life. Men who would risk enemy fire to crawl out and pull my fat ass back to safety. My son, just returning from Afghanistan, now realizes what I’ve mentioned in the past. It’s like love and total trust can be separated. Maybe if the wife, like many women, didn’t find it amusing whenever a story of some guy being castrated by his wife or some one… Read more »
Maybe if so many men didn’t dismiss rape so easily? Maybe that attitude you’re encountering is symptomatic of the oppostitional model of gender? And what the hell…you don’t think women would run the gauntlet to save you or anyone else? What kind of women are you spending time with? Mama bear instincts apply to everyone we care about, not just those we birth, and we always, always, will put ourselves last when there’s a threat to that group. I’ve been there, blocking hits kicks and projectiles to get guys I know away from danger. And you know what? They usually… Read more »
Look, I’m quite aware of the reality of the ‘Momma Bear’ instinct and since Women were just allowed into combat units, I assume you’re speaking metaphorically. Women, when asked what’s important in a relationship , will almost always say honesty and trust as the most important. Yet every woman close to me in my life (Sisters, Wife , Daughters and yes , even dear old Mom!) has LIED to me sometime in my life! As for the whole multination thing, go on You Tube and type in ‘The Talk’ (Popular daytime talk show on CBS), now try to imagine yourself… Read more »
Really7?? How many times does your gender joke about rape & wife abuse?? In my experience –constantly! I have endured more hardship than the average 20 overpaid/overpampered men I’ve met –but you don’t thoink I would e=deserve the basic level of respect because I’ve never been in a foxhole with you–really?? check your privledge buddy …cuz It’s showing & its REAL UGLY
Ah yes, my “Overpampered” life. Lets see, at last count, I’ve had somewhere between 425-450 stitches in my lifetime. My right arm is held together with screws, my right knee had to be replaced(left knee ‘s coming due) , no cartilage in my right wrist (shredded an had to be removed) All fingers , except thumbs, have been broken at least once (some two and three times). I’ve gone to 6 wakes for co-workers and friends who have died on my “overpaid” job (I’ve almost died on the job myself, TWICE). Now I’m not complaining, because ‘Being a Man’, you… Read more »
Funny how I can be personally attacked,but if I try to respond to said attacks (respectfully, of course), I’m ‘Moderated’ out.