When Older Guys Lust After Young Women

Men’s sexual desire is driven by culture, not evolution, Hugo Schwyzer argues. Here’s what young women are really looking for, and why we’re fools to think otherwise.

In my office, Amber is telling me a familiar story. She’s come to talk about her autobiography paper for my women’s studies class, and she reads part of her rough draft aloud.

“I was 12, and this car pulled up alongside me as I was walking home from school … the driver looked a little older than my dad, at least 40. He leaned out, and I thought he was going to ask me for directions, but instead he asked me how old I was. When I told him, he laughed. ‘Damn, you got some big titties for such a little girl.’ He made this gross smacking sound with his lips, and sped away. I ran all the way home.”

Amber looks up at me. “I want to know,” she asks, “why do older men hit on younger women?” She’s 20 now, tall and graceful; she tells me that for the last eight years, older men have been approaching her. “It’s not just me,” she adds, “it happens to most of my friends, almost regardless of what they look like or what they’re wearing. It makes me feel like I can’t trust anyone, like all men want just one thing. Why can’t they chase women their own age?”

♦◊♦

I’ve been writing and researching about relationships between older men and younger women since 2005. While the media is hyping the “cougar” phenomenon, they ignore the reality that in most age-disparate affairs the man is the older (sometimes, as in the case of Hugh Hefner, astoundingly older) partner. We take it for granted that many men in their 30s, 40s, and 50s will be more sexually attracted to younger women than to their peers. While most men and women alike are appalled by stories of adult men hitting on 12-year-olds, we still assume that men will “naturally” lust after young women just a few years older.

In 2005, John Derbyshire, a much-admired right-wing pundit at the National Review, opined:

It is, in fact, a sad truth about human life that beyond our salad days, very few of us are interesting to look at in the buff. Added to that sadness is the very unfair truth that a woman’s salad days are shorter than a man’s—really, in this precise context, only from about 15 to 20.

Remarkably, the “family values” editors at America’s flagship conservative journal let this nonsense run, perhaps because they accepted what he was saying as gospel truth: 15- and 16-year-old girls are more sexually alluring to normal adult men than are women in their late 20s. But Derbyshire wasn’t telling us a truth about women’s beauty—he was telling us a truth about the way we’ve socialized male desire.

No one thinks babies were the first thing on the mind of Jason Statham when he started dating a 23-year-old Victoria’s Secret model, or that Sean Penn (50) is motivated by the desire to start a family with Scarlett Johansson, who’s barely half his age.

Ask any porn site operator: the “barely legal” or “teens” sections are among the most popular niches. That doesn’t sound so troubling when you imagine an army of teen boys masturbating to images and videos of their female peers. It’s considerably different to imagine men jerking off to pictures of girls young enough to be their daughters—or granddaughters. Since Hef published his first Playboy magazine in 1953, we’ve raised three generations of men to believe that women peak in desirability somewhere between 18 and 24. For many men, that peak starts much earlier. Ask a 17-year-old how often she’s been leered at (or worse) by a much older man.

For too many men, the term “jailbait” isn’t a warning. It’s an enticement.

♦◊♦

Spare me the arguments from biology or evolutionary psychology, the ones that excuse predatory old guys from staring at “young firm flesh” because that flesh belongs to a woman near the peak of her fertility. The great lengths to which countless men go to avoid fatherhood suggests that the continued evolutionary imperative to “spread one’s seed” is oversold to the point of being illusory. No one thinks babies were the first thing on the mind of Jason Statham when he started dating a 23-year-old Victoria’s Secret model, or that Sean Penn (50) is motivated by the desire to start a family with Scarlett Johansson, who’s barely half his age. This is about the cultural cachet of dating a much younger woman—and about the difficult-to-deny reality that younger women lack the experience and wisdom to call their older lovers on their bullshit.

Two recent books do a superb job of puncturing the argument that male sexuality is primarily a creature of evolutionary programming. University of North Carolina professor Martha McGaughey’s The Caveman Mystique: Pop-Darwinism and the Debates Over Sex, Violence and Science (Routledge, 2008) makes the convincing case that our beliefs about male sexuality form the science, and not the other way around. In other words, men who want a reason to chase younger women are desperate to claim that what is a culturally constructed choice is really an unavoidable biological reality.

Cordelia Fine’s Delusions of Gender: How Our Minds, Society, and Neurosexism Create Difference (Norton, 2010) offers a systematic debunking of the idea that men’s sexual decisions are driven largely by brain chemistry. Both Fine and McGaughey make a compelling case that the actual science doesn’t support the idea that men’s sexual desires are driven by evolutionary imperatives.

In other words, John Derbyshire (and a lot of other grown men) may be sexually attracted to underage girls—but they don’t get to blame that fetish on biology.

Even if it were “natural,” there’s nothing innocent or harmless or healthy about older men pursuing substantially younger women. The cost is high to everyone involved. While a few young women may be attracted to much older guys (often because they falsely imagine themselves to be “so much more mature” than “other girls” their age), most are like Amber—disheartened and disgusted by the endless parade of men 10, 20, or 40 years older who harass and hit on them. These young women aren’t flattered. And even if they seem flattered at the time, it doesn’t mean the attention from older men isn’t doing great harm.

♦◊♦

Lynn Phillips, a psychology professor at New York University, did a famous study of young women (mostly under legal age) who were in relationships with significantly older men. Most of the girls she interviewed described these affairs as mutual, exciting, and fulfilling. They pushed back against the suggestion that they were being exploited, claiming in many cases to have initiated or at least welcomed the sex with older men. Phillips then interviewed a similar number of older women. Each of these was over 30, and each had been in a relationship with a much older man while still in her teens. With the benefit of hindsight and experience, these older women acknowledged that they’d been used and hurt and exploited. They admitted that their claims of maturity and sexual adventurousness were all a pretense. In other words, what Phillips found is that while there are some teen girls who are “asking for it,” it’s not what they really want. Teen girls feign sexual sophistication; men need to be able to see through that.

Kerry Cohen, author of Loose Girl and the forthcoming Dirty Little Secrets: Breaking the Silence on Teenage Girls and Promiscuity, argues that “when adult men sexualize teen girls, even just by ogling them, the girls are reminded that their worth in their world is dependent on how sexy they are.” “Girls who choose men so far out of their age ranges,” Cohen writes, “tend toward low self-esteem and depression.” These aren’t sweet coming-of-age stories. And they don’t fit the pornographic story line that young girls are eager for sexual initiation at the hands of an older, wiser mentor.

Here’s the brutal truth, guys. Teen and 20-something women aren’t nearly as interested in much older men as you may think. Sure, there are high school girls with Johnny Depp fantasies, but guess what? You’re not Johnny Depp. (If you were that 48-year-old actor, you’d be devoted to your 38-year-old French girlfriend.) Yes, some young women do flirt with older men. Some do it for validation, some do it for excitement, but a hell of a lot of them do it because guys like you have already taught them that’s the only thing that older men want.

♦◊♦

A true story about the way younger women really see “older men” (and if you’re attracted to 18- to 24-year-olds, you count as “older” if you’re on the high side of 30).

A few years ago, my friend Sean went through a rough divorce. Newly single and almost 40, he went back on the dating scene for the first time in over a decade. But the woman who caught his eye wasn’t someone he met online. She was his favorite barista at his local Starbucks. She was 19.

Next: The girl behind the counter

Pages: 1 2

Sponsored Content

NOW TRENDING ON GMP TV

Flight or Fight
Forever Boogies
Are You A Narcissist?

Premium Membership, The Good Men Project

About Hugo Schwyzer

Hugo Schwyzer has taught history and gender studies at Pasadena City College since 1993, where he developed the college's first courses on Men and Masculinity and Beauty and Body Image. He serves as co-director of the Perfectly Unperfected Project, a campaign to transform young people's attitudes around body image and fashion. Hugo lives with his wife, daughter, and six chinchillas in Los Angeles. Hugo blogs at his website

Comments

  1. Young women want older men’s money. That’s a big one. Women, admit it…you want the cash. Everyhing after that is an afterthought.

    • HAHAHAHA hoo boy, someone’s bitter.

      Hi, I am a young woman who has been pursued by older men several times before. Luckily, I had the good sense to listen to my older girlfriends who said that there’s something seriously wrong with men who go after much younger women, and I’m glad I listened, because it’s true.

      Sure, some idiot girls date older men for the money, but I don’t know if you’ve actually exited your own home in the past 10 years to see that we’re outnumbering guys in college and starting to in the workplace. We don’t want your money or your pervy glances. We want cute guys our age with our interests, not predators who think we’re so stupid that we’ll get on our knees for your wallet.

      • Anonymous says:

        Sorry, but you are completely wrong. As a man, I have allways seen attractive young women as such, and older women as older women. Young men are just as much predators, if not far more so, than older men. If there is something wrong with a man of 45 chasing a girl of 18, then there is exactly as much wrong with a man of 20 doing it. If I am a pervert for desiring attractive young women, then I gave been one since the age of 14. I totally accept that every woman has a choice of who she linkes, but if a man is to be chastised for not wanting to jump into bed with an old lady, then the world has become a rather awful place. Why was no one getting on my case for not perusing women of 45 when I was 17. If I found women of that age desirable, why wold it ate me thirty years to figure it out? Are here really that many retarded blokes out there?

        • Anonymous 2 says:

          As a woman of 50 years of age I have to say that I find many of these comment offensive, especially yours “Anonymous”. I am thin and attractive, and still get checked out by men of all ages all of the time (even my son’s friends). I am no more an “old woman” than you are an “old man” (which you would be according to your age standard stereotype). Also, I have been attracted to men of all ages since I began dating long ago, and I still am even though I’ve been happily married for over 20 years. Attraction has much less to do with your age and more to do with what appeals to you. Some people just naturally have more sex appeal than others. Would you be attracted to an 18 year old girl who was homely and overweight just because she was 18? Or would you be attracted to her 40 year old mom standing next to her who was thin and hot? And it really doesn’t matter how old you are, all women find it creepy to be leered at or have lewd comments made at them. Really.

          • I agree with you! Age is almost unimportant to me, except I want to have children. So nature can be cruel to women in that way. But in direct response to your comment… I’ll take the 40 year old that take care of herself any day over an overweight, smelly, un-groomed 18 year old. I have met women of all ages. Some 60 year olds that act like children and some 21 year olds that act classy, intelligent and mature. I find people in general find inter-racial dating far more acceptable than the taboo age difference relationship. My advice, find someone who is compatible with you and SCREW THE WORLD’S OPINION!!!! Be happy!

    • You are rigth. younger woman only want older man’s fat wallet!

  2. ryan Silver says:

    Older men were lusting after young women way before Hugh Hefner…so it may not be modern culture.?

    • I think it has to do with biology and how a man’s fertility drops with age and he is more likely to need to be with a younger woman to increase his odds of getting her pregnant. Ten years of research has shown male fertility declines significantly with age and dramatically between 40 and 45. According to the National Institute of Health, the fertility of a man in his forties peaks at 41 and drops sharply between 41 and 45. Research on mice and in fertility clinics determined a man’s fertility drops 7% each year between 40 and 45, almost cutting it in half and it drops 10% each year thereafter. The older a man gets the harder it is to get a woman pregnant so it’s a biological imperative that he be with someone young to compensate for that decline. A study in France determined that declining birth rates were do to more men waiting to have children until their 40s and being less successful than younger men at getting a woman pregnant.

      It’s very strange but none of these studies have been covered in any major media outlets even they though they basically all confirm a significant decline with age. By 40, pregnancy attempt are 70% more likely to fail compared with a man 30 and younger and the number of sperm with mobility drops by 60%. By age 50, it’s 70%. It’s just common sense that a man’s reproductive system is impacted by age as much as every other cell in his body.

  3. I think a more important question than “why do they feel that way” would be “why does everyone care?” Barring pedophilia, rape, or crude “hey baby” commentary, so what if an older guy wants younger women? The fact that mutual attraction is unlikely? So should physically unattractive people, or men in low paying service sector jobs who aren’t struggling actors or working their way through college, also subjugate their desires and keep their eyes downcast and their mouths shut?

  4. This is just so completely stupid. The reason why older men like girls of around 18 is EXACTLY the same reason that men of 18 or 20 like them, and has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that the younger ones happen to be the same age as them. If you want to psychoanalyse the reasons, then look at the reasons why a guy of 20 does it, cos it is the same. Are there really so many men out there who have been so rampant in their youth that they don’t want to persue an attractive eligible girl because they are young enough mathematically to be their daughter. They are not sure whether the girl in question is their daughter? Come on, for goodness sake! I am a man who s now in his late forties, not particularly hansom rrather short and a bit overweight. Almost very job that I have worked in for e last ten years, there have been pretty girls there who have done thir best to attract my attention. Four years ago I returned to the UK city where I had studied when I was at University and I went along to the Students Union some nights. Because I knew no one there, I felt very awkward, also because my age was so different to all others there. Boy, did I get chased after by student girls! I recall a pretty blonde arguing with her friends, ” I keep trying to talk to he guy, don,t know what else to try”. I don’t persue girls anymore because there are so many in society who wan to label me as some sort of pervert because I don’t want to jump into bed with a forty year old woman. The world has gone mad!

  5. Tried posting this already and it just did not appear. Here goes a second time. This is something that comes up constantly and is just plain stupid. The reason that a man who is older desires a girl of around18 is EXACTLY the same reason(s) that a guy who happens to be the same age as the girl likes her. If you want to analyse the reasons and come up with wierd answers, then ask he question of guys who happen to be 19, cos like it or not, they like the girl for the same reasons. I am a man who is now in his late forties and I no longer persue attractive girls I like because I have been made to feel like some sort of perv by so many in society because I do not wish to be with a middle aged woman. Almost every place I have worked in the last ten years there have been attractive girls who have done their best to be my attention, but I have felt too awkward to respond. I am not particularly hamdsom, am short and sometimes a little overweight. About four years ago, I returned to the UK city where I had studied and went to the University Students Union some nights. There were girls who actively pursued me. I did absolutely non of e chasing, feeling more than a little awkward not knowing anyone there. I specifically recall a rather pretty blonde girl who used to come and chat to me regularly pointing to me and saying to her friends,” I don,t know what else to try, with the guy, I,m sure he,s not gay” the fact is that so mch of society is telling me that I am doing something wrong to like girls, that I feel too awkward to persue girls, or even to respond to a girl who is doing her best to attract my attention. There are people who will always be so blinkered that they cannot see past girls being with a man, who happens to be about the same age as them. It is just their hang-up.

  6. There is one thing very sick and twisted about this, which is the manner in which the article has been written. No one ever tries to psychoanalyse the reasons why a man of 20 persues a girl of 18. If they di, they might be shocke by the answer, it had absolutely nothing to o with the fact that he is bout the same age, it is because Gil of that age ate naturally highly desirable, exactly the sam reasons why a man who happens to have rated breakfast more often finds them desirable. If I was drawn to women of 50, I would have persued them when I was 17. All this rubbish about a girl being young enough to be a man,s daughter. If the man in question is so stupid that he had concerns regarding a potential for incest, then he should avoid the encounter and keep his stupidity to himself, rather than focusing upon witted, rather tan ocussing upon dictating to others. Why should I orny other man feel it necessary to defend an instinctive liking for attractive young women and be accused of being a pervert because we have little wish to jump into bed with an old lady. Has the world gone completely mad! All this nonsense about media imagery changing perceptions of what men find desirable. Did Cleopatra of Egypt at 17 persue 50 year old Julius Ceasar because he was a pretty boy with a Gay looking hair do? I it is wrong to persue attractive young women then get onto the case of men of 20, they are the worst offenders. If I am a pervert because I like attractive young women, then I have been one since th ag of 15. This rubbish makes me sick. I remember a wife of a friend who hate me because I persued attractive young women, but she had no problems with her own son if 17 regularly bedding them. Talk about hypocrasy. All those with such attitude problems should leave th rest of us to live our lives as we see fit. If you are waiting if me to hook up with an old lady because you think it is a good idea, well, your in for a long wait!

  7. If they had called this article why young men don’t lust after old women, most would have considered it stupid. Well guess what, this article is no more sensible. No one believes that Jason Stratham entered into a relationship with a younger woman to start a family? Rather obvious do you not think? Why did you not state that no one believes a guy of 20 picks up a girl of 18 at a night club to start a family. Who is suggesting these daft things in the first place? Ah of course, it is an attemp to suggest that men are evil perverts because they like attractive girls and happen to be older. Exactly at what point does a man change to becoming this evil pervert? Is there a specific number of beans on toast meals consumed over the years that change the morality of he issue? Or is it the number of fried breakfasts that makes a man a pervert? Please explain.

  8. So many back and forth arguments with those in favor/against biology, and those in favor/against cultural influences, but has anyone considered that two people with a significant age gap between them might have a genuine interest in each other; that they connect better with one another than their peers?

    People have such a skewed perception of time and are completely unable to see things beyond our own lifespans. If anything, our short lives should make such pairings more acceptable, but as human life expectancy has risen, so has the length of the frown and abundance of age discrimination.

    Explain to me how it is that suddenly we solve the mysteries of how people get together in the first place when objectification of any kind of relationship rears its ugly head? What people really need to do is mind their own damn business just like the two love birds who really couldn’t care less about what you think of them.

  9. Christian McKnight says:

    This hack’s blather has already been exposed in a Psychology Today article that exposes his misinterpretation of a single swedish study to support his claims.

    Move along. There’s nothing to be seen here.

  10. Your article flies in the face of reason and scientific research. I am genuinely surprised a lecturer of any discipline could articulate so much social control emphasis in your argumentation and deny valid scientific research. In fact you present arguments but back it up with little research. Not only are men attracted to younger women and this has been studied as a universal principal across cultures(1). It has also been shown that younger women as apart from their male counterparts also are attracted to older men(2). Attraction in these cases is differentiated across genders. Where a man finds physical attributes as almost the sole reason for attraction, women find other attributes including wisdom, intelligence and having the ability to have access to resources as also important when they are “biologically” attracted to men. You haven’t countered this evidence whatsoever in any effect. In fact what you do is try to shame people who make these decisions, in fact making your claim socially constructed and controlled (presumably because you have a daughter) Can I ask you a question? If your daughter at an appropriate age where she can make decisions for herself told you she was attracted to a remarkably older man, what would your response be? Blame the man? Allow her to have her own choice without infringing on her rights? Deny her those rights? You are just making an argument for social control. You say “Spare me the arguments from biology or evolutionary psychology” No I will not spare you. These are backed by scientific research under scientific discipline away from “moralistic” social control that you espouse. A father who does this is just in total denial and can potentially be harmful to the natural progression which his daughter faces. It is parents like you who find their daughters going off with bikies or getting into extremely difficult situations because of a lack of understanding of her sexuality in biological terms.

  11. cont…
    You make another personal statement backed by no research whatsoever… “Even if it were natural, there’s nothing innocent or harmless or healthy about older men pursuing substantially younger women” This is just like the argument that homosexuality is bad for you… Come on. I think we as humans have advanced more than this. In fact it has been scientifically documented to be extremely beneficial health wise to the man. So I am gathering what you really meant to say was “there’s nothing healthy for the young woman” I would argue contrary. I think this is the main reason younger women, particularly now, are opting for relationships with older men. As younger men are more and more learning their sexual techniques from pornography, younger women are experiencing more respected and sexually gratifying experiences with older men. Secondly, younger woman have access to “intimate wisdom” whereby what she is experiencing emotionally is handled wisely by a more mature person thereby allowing her to learn to accept herself rather than being blamed for what she is experiencing by her younger counterparts (because young men are equally screwed up in the head by “social controllers” such as yourself). This is extremely healthy for sexual development and can only be experienced within an educated relationship. I am not arguing that it can’t be dangerous. In contrast to your argument I am specifically saying there is no black and white in these situations and by allowing open communication and relinquishing shame one can better view and know the truth behind such circumstances. To pre-judge what is right and wrong from a moralistic perspective takes away from free choice which ironically is one of the core tenants of feminism and gender studies.

  12. I just broke up with my 12 year relationship. He was younger then me, not allot, but younger. Now he has moved on, very quickly I might add, with a 19 year old from Ohio. she just recently graduated high school. We live in Ontario. He is 31, and he thinks he loves her, only a 2 weeks after texting this young girl in the states. They never even met, while saying they love each other. How can he possibly love her, being 19, after being with me, for 12 years. Our break up wasn’t bad, and we even talked about getting back together. There were only minor reasons I ended it. Otherwise our relationship was wonderful. He ever told me, the same. Please help me understand. He is totally oblivious to what we had, two weeks after break up.

  13. If the relationship was so wonderful why would you end it–and for minor reasons? I think he’s probably more aware of what you thought you had than you think. Why would he think you had something extra special when you ended it? Why would he think there was something to hold onto? Think a bit about your actions. Why should he be expected to wait for you when you ended it? If what you had was so great and wonderful, why would you end it?

    Yeah, some men will hang on until there is absolutely no hope for a relationship to be salvaged, but there are also men who aren’t going to wait around for someone else to decided what direction their life is going to take.

    I am sure it’s not a nice potion to be in, but you made your decision and now you have to live with the consequences of that decision.

  14. you broke it off? then why are you worried about what he is doing at all? Move on and dont worry what he is doing. He found someone that is better for him – right now…. Stop whining

  15. …he’s obviously a complete freak/psycho. i think you dodged a bullet there. i just feel sorry for the poor girl he’s predating on :S

  16. Maybe he realized that someone that would end a relationship over “minor reasons” is someone he doesn’t want to be with.

  17. Anonymous says:

    You broke up your 12 yr relationship over minor reasons, and now you wonder why he doesn’t want you back and claim HE doesn’t know what y’all had? Sounds like you were the one who F*cked up..

  18. Charlie says:

    Wow, sorry I pissed you off Emma. And you didn’t even reply to my messege, you just bashed me. No one asked for your rudeness.
    The reason I ended it, was because I needed to make a point. He could not give emotionally, but he could love. It is hard to explain, however I know what i am talking about. He loved me so much! Twelve wonderful years to be exact. i need to show him, (and I told him the same) that if he didn’t try and show any emotion, I was gone. That is all that was wrong. That was it. He couldn’t show emotions, because he has been very damaged through his childhood. And I accepted this for a long time. We shared everything, even his tears, that was very hard for him to do. So now I see he running away from all this, to someone he barely ever see’s. You know why? So he doesn’t have to commit, or to show any emotion yet again. And I don’t understand why he has done this.
    So Emma, instead of bashing people, and judging me, why not wait till you get a good description of the problem.

  19. Emma, it is possible your relationship had an issue of maturity and he wanting by then a younger person, a relationship more equal for him from an emotional point of view. Might have been a nurturing relationship for him and a self confidence giving one for you, which has had it”s seeds for both of you. I do not believe in endings that occur from minor conflicts, I believe that your road together in that form ended. The saddest part is if you put some hopes into it lasting for more and some energies. You will have to let him experience and you to experience something different, too. You might have the surprise to find a new, even more fulfilling relationship. I read once that a relationship lasts until two persons share a common road… best wishes to you!

  20. You ended it to prove a point? I’m sorry, I am not bashing anyone, I just asked a few questions.

    Actually, your description of the problem only baffles me more with why you are confused that when you ended it, he decided to try someone one new.

    Has he told you that he’s running away from you so that he doesn’t have to commit or show emotion or is this just something you assigned to him so that you can rationalize being right for your lack of commitment to him?

    I am in a wonderful relationship going on 18 glorious years. We’ve had our ups and we’ve had our downs, but ending it to prove a point never crossed my mind because to me ending it shows a lack of commitment. If you can’t weather a person as they are now and you end a relationship because of it you are not committed to that person.

    You may not see what you have done as a lack of commitment, but it is. If he is damaged from his childhood as you say, than ending the relationship after 12 years is you not being committed to him or the relationship you had with him.

    Would you go back to someone who told you that you had to be someone other than who you are or they were going to leave?

    Damaged people do not magically heal because someone wants them to behave in a different way. I am not bashing and I am sorry if you take it that way.

    Commitment works both ways. If you can end a 12 year relationship because of a problem you knew about he may not see you as committed to him as you think you are.

  21. Your comments are a bit strange to me. You said “he loved so much” and then that “he could not give emotionally”. This is contradictory. So are you sure you told the real reasons why you broke the relation ?

  22. I am sorry that your relationship went the way it did! It sounds like you had your heart set on him changing and getting back together. Unfortunately giving a man or a woman an ultimatum to change usually does not work out in the long run!

    I want to tell you about my ex-husband who was 9 years older than I. I was 22 and he was 31 when we married. He had an executive job for Ford Motors. He had been divorced but had no children. We were married for 22 year and had 2 children together. Life however was not all roses. He had a problem with alcohol as well as other women! I had become very depedent on his support. A few years before the divorce I started wroking as a flight attendant; a job I loved. However it took me away from home often. I had an accident and injured my cervical spine a few years later. Although I had nursed him back to health after an accident that had him out of work for over a year and a half , this man could not provide the support I needed to get me back on my feet. He told me he thought we would do better off getting a divorce after the first surgery to try and get me well. It was not what I wanted! I was now disabled and could not work and it seemed with no options. We had the worst divorce I have ever heard of! Finally a judge decided how our assets would be handled and awarded me half of his 401K and permenant spousal support as well as a portion of his pension! I found myself forever grateful to a judge when I realized that I would not have to depend on a man to support me ever again! He tried everything to get out of payng me what I had coming and would no longer even talk to me. I guess he thought I was just going to go away! It has been nine years now and I find myself to be much happier than I ever was and can tell you that although I cared for this man; my fears of caring for myself and my children kept me in place for a long time and would probably have kept me there indeffinately if he had not made the move to divorce me~ PS. He remarried 4 months after our divorce to a women he met in the bar while I was flying!

    Life is good, I own 3 properties without mortgages; one I live in and 2 that I rent. I recieve a good portion of his pension along with social security and alimony. My belief is that many young girls looking for older men are looking for security! We were both relatively young when we married and I will not say I married him for his money but I would agree to the fact that I looked for someone that could handle the obligations of a family!

  23. cindy age 25 says:

    Charlie, you are better off without him. He starts up a relationship with a 19 year old who he met through technology (no emotional or physical connection – just “electronic words”) two weeks after a 12 year relationship? Sweetie, please get into therapy to discover why you would be attracted to a man incapable of emotional connection and why you can’t answer your own question of why he would start a relationship with a younger woman whom he has never met (I’ll give you a hint: NO EMOTIONAL CONNECTION!!!) Please don’t get into another relationship until you sort this out with a professional. I hope the best for you, from one woman to another woman. Figure it out so you don’t follow the same destructive pattern.

  24. Charlie says:

    I was committed to him for 12 years, he did not. I gave all my soul into our relationship, more then I ever gave my ex. husband. Im ending this conversation. Only because no one knows what happened, what we went through, what I personally went through. And I guess it was wrong of me to post any comment. People are being very judgmental, without knowing the facts.

  25. stubenge says:

    Hell knows no greater fury than a woman that’s scorned. Sorry Charlie, I have to agree with Emma. I also believe from some of the things you said, it now hurts you to see him move on to a potentially better situation for him after you gave him an ultimatum. My advice, find an older gentleman that will appreciate you and will always see you as a younger woman.

  26. Charlie says:

    How do I stop receiving this?

  27. Brooke- he could simply be that hurt over what this girl did to him- you do not know what happened.

  28. 19 years old is too young really… She still need to gain some maturity.

    If she was 25 and him 37 (same age diff of 12 years) this would me more healthy

  29. Monica,

    Thank you for your concerns, but I have been happily married for over fourteen years and with the same wonderful man for almost twenty. I don’t believe the end of the road comes from a truly fulfilling relationship. It only grow stronger. Love grows stronger. That’s been my experience with marriage. There are no words to express the depth of love my husband and I have for each other. Yes, we both started out immature, but we consciously and purposely grew together instead of apart.

  30. Emma, I am sorry, I by mistake mentioned your name, but my comments were addressed to Charlie!
    Reading your reply, I can only say you have the luck and the fruits of a relationship that has indeed worked out. Something to remember for me, since I am after breaking up in a relationship which lacked consciousness and purpose.

  31. Need a reality check people. Biology is the number one reason for older men younger women. Nature is our model and humans are the same. Discussion over.

  32. Humans behavior is not dictated by biology only from a long time. You should know it !
    We have big differences with animals : human sexuality is not only geared at reproduction
    but has as an important emotional aspect : We do not make love only for reproduction.
    Our education, culture in which we were raised have fare more impact on us than simply biology.
    Have you ever hear about human psychology ? Humans don’t live only to eat & reproduce. Make
    your own researches !

    Discussion over you said… Oh please yes, no more of your immaturity and ignorance

  33. Biology may explain his attraction to her young ovaries but how does it explain why in a large age gap relationship she has selected someone with poorer sperm mobility, more genetic mutations (children of age 40+ men have increased incidence of schizophrenia, down syndrome & autism amongst others) and reduced chance of seeing the offspring to adulthood?

  34. Pat – Without commenting on my position with regards to Loren’s opinion, he has the right to say it. I’m actually willing to listen to him more than you because your personal attacks on him leave you little credibility with me.

    I’m virtually certain you are a woman…I’m just wondering how old you are? Are you one of those women that has been personally affected by this phenomena? Knowing the background of people that post makes a big difference in how the audience can (and should) react to your message.

    And I’d also be more willing to consider your point of view if you would write correctly. I can forgive one or two spelling / grammar mistakes, but more than that and I start to think that it’s difficult for you to properly express your thoughts.

  35. “And I’d also be more willing to consider your point of view if you would write correctly. I can forgive one or two spelling / grammar mistakes, but more than that and I start to think that it’s difficult for you to properly express your thoughts.”

    English is not my mother tongue. That’s reason why I make grammatical / errors. And you judge me only on this ? Can’t make just a reasoned comment ? And no i’m not a woman.

    The comments of Loren are just horrible… young women smell better ? This is insulting to women. Typical
    attitude of men considering women as objects. And yes his comments are immature.

  36. I apologoze for the comment about the spelling and grammar, and I am not judging you…I simply said that Loren has the right to tell us what he feels. Your responses to him are not reasoned. I’m fine with you expressing your opposition to his thoughts, but instead of calling him immature or ignorant, simply tell the audience about your opinion. Let them make up their own mind. For example – stating that younger women smell better is not insulting to all women: only to older women. And calling him immature is your opinion – not a fact.

  37. All the studies I’ve seen are inconclusive with respect to the incidence of birth defects except one – bipolar disorder. A Danish study – confirmed by the US Centers for Disease control – found an increase in the incidence of bipoliar disorder in the 2 to 3 percent range. This is a concern in many developing countries. However, the high quality prenatal care avalable in the United States largely cancels out the expected increase here, with bipolar increases among children of older fathers standing at less than one percent in the US. And I agree that older fathers have lower sperm motility and volume, but that effect only serves to reduce the chances of getting pregnant; it has no effect on birth defects. Contrast that with a woman who has passed menopasue; she has no chance AT ALL of ever having children again.

  38. There is lots of evidence regarding the increase of genetic mutations in older fathers (there is advice that men should have sperm frozen when they are in their 20s to avoid the risk) particularly linking to autism & schizophrenia (neurological conditions), it’s not a huge increase but it’s an increase none the less. My point is the young mother has not chosen the best genetic bet when she chooses a significantly older father for her child (studies show from age late 30s to 40s the mutations increase, for every year of a man life there will be more) which doesn’t fit in with the biology theory presented here at all.

    The biggest risk of all is the fact an older father has a higher chance of dying before his child reaches 18 years, between ages of 34-44 this doubles to 12%. Not good odds from the child’s (or mother’s) perspective.

    I agree with the need to avoid being an older mother and all the inherent risks involved but men are not immune to ageing, two under 35 year old parents give the best outcome to their kids.

  39. of course there is lots of evidence to support your assertions about birth defects. And there is lots of evidence to support my assertions – that’s why we call the issue inconclusive! You don’t cite any authority – you just say there’s lots of information – blah blah. And the article you mentioned in another post dealt with “intense mothers” – a coined phrase that comtemplates mothers that do too much mothering and bring stress on themselves. It has nothing to do with the basic genetic desire to nurture…it’s all about competition. Too many people living vicariously through their children….another reason to step back and stop worrying about age gap couples, if Billy can read Hamlet at age 2 – or anything else.

    E – you are becoming more and more personal with your responses to me and your head seems clouded with your personal issues. It’s no longer challenging to discuss a controversy with you…it’s getting annoying. I don’t think I’ll be responding to your posts again.

    I can’t wait to see how you answer this – I’m pretty sure you will – as you always have to get the last word in….

  40. Here you go, I never like to disappoint…. I didn’t give you the links to the study because I assumed that you would either already know it (it was highly publicised) or you would Google it yourself if you were interested. Here it is anyway:

    http://www.nature.com/news/fathers-bequeath-more-mutations-as-they-age-1.11247

    My original answer was in reply to ‘Loren’ not yourself, I questioned the biology argument because (as I have already said) it would not explain why a young woman has chosen a mate who is not the best biological option. It was not a personal judgement on you (I only replied to you because you answered my post!), sorry if you read it as such.

    You say I have to get the last word in but I’m replying to posts you have made in reply to mine. I posted the link to the stay-at-home moms depression study because it was relevant to the paradigm you asserted (with no studies whatsoever to back it up), these were women who by their own admission believed by nature of their sex they should be the primary care-givers as you yourself argue strongly yet they had higher incidents of depression. It doesn’t surprise me, I have personally come across many full-time mothers who have been depressed. I think the issues of depression and rising divorce rates are very complex indeed but to claim if women stayed at home with their children everything would be better is very simplistic and I have yet to see evidence it would help anyone.

    You claim that I am personal in my responses to you yet my last two replies mentioned nothing of your personal situation or mine, they were mostly regarding research studies. Read your own reply to me above with “blah, blah” and “you always have to get the last word in…” (Nice double bind that one) what is that if not personal?

  41. not have to depend on a man ever again? you are getting his alimony and 1/2 of his retirement. What do you call that ? I call it dependence. He is supporting you for the rest of your life!

Trackbacks

  1. […] without manipulating him plainly he starts with your proposal to your significant amounts of time only to get back together down the relationship with them. This does sound like a lot of effort in his […]

Speak Your Mind

*