Men’s sexual desire is driven by culture, not evolution, Hugo Schwyzer argues. Here’s what young women are really looking for, and why we’re fools to think otherwise.
In my office, Amber is telling me a familiar story. She’s come to talk about her autobiography paper for my women’s studies class, and she reads part of her rough draft aloud.
“I was 12, and this car pulled up alongside me as I was walking home from school … the driver looked a little older than my dad, at least 40. He leaned out, and I thought he was going to ask me for directions, but instead he asked me how old I was. 
When I told him, he laughed. ‘Damn, you got some big titties for such a little girl.’ He made this gross smacking sound with his lips, and sped away. I ran all the way home.”
Amber looks up at me. “I want to know,” she asks, “why do older men hit on younger women?” She’s 20 now, tall and graceful; she tells me that for the last eight years, older men have been approaching her. “It’s not just me,” she adds, “it happens to most of my friends, almost regardless of what they look like or what they’re wearing. It makes me feel like I can’t trust anyone, like all men want just one thing. Why can’t they chase women their own age?”
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I’ve been writing and researching about relationships between older men and younger women since 2005. While the media is hyping the “cougar” phenomenon, they ignore the reality that in most age-disparate affairs the man is the older (sometimes, as in the case of Hugh Hefner, astoundingly older) partner. We take it for granted that many men in their 30s, 40s, and 50s will be more sexually attracted to younger women than to their peers. While most men and women alike are appalled by stories of adult men hitting on 12-year-olds, we still assume that men will “naturally” lust after young women just a few years older.
In 2005, John Derbyshire, a much-admired right-wing pundit at the National Review, opined:
It is, in fact, a sad truth about human life that beyond our salad days, very few of us are interesting to look at in the buff. Added to that sadness is the very unfair truth that a woman’s salad days are shorter than a man’s—really, in this precise context, only from about 15 to 20.
Remarkably, the “family values” editors at America’s flagship conservative journal let this nonsense run, perhaps because they accepted what he was saying as gospel truth: 15- and 16-year-old girls are more sexually alluring to normal adult men than are women in their late 20s. But Derbyshire wasn’t telling us a truth about women’s beauty—he was telling us a truth about the way we’ve socialized male desire.
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No one thinks babies were the first thing on the mind of Jason Statham when he started dating a 23-year-old Victoria’s Secret model, or that Sean Penn (50) is motivated by the desire to start a family with Scarlett Johansson, who’s barely half his age.
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Ask any porn site operator: the “barely legal” or “teens” sections are among the most popular niches. That doesn’t sound so troubling when you imagine an army of teen boys masturbating to images and videos of their female peers. It’s considerably different to imagine men jerking off to pictures of girls young enough to be their daughters—or granddaughters. Since Hef published his first Playboy magazine in 1953, we’ve raised three generations of men to believe that women peak in desirability somewhere between 18 and 24. For many men, that peak starts much earlier. Ask a 17-year-old how often she’s been leered at (or worse) by a much older man.
For too many men, the term “jailbait” isn’t a warning. It’s an enticement.
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Spare me the arguments from biology or evolutionary psychology, the ones that excuse predatory old guys from staring at “young firm flesh” because that flesh belongs to a woman near the peak of her fertility. The great lengths to which countless men go to avoid fatherhood suggests that the continued evolutionary imperative to “spread one’s seed” is oversold to the point of being illusory. No one thinks babies were the first thing on the mind of Jason Statham when he started dating a 23-year-old Victoria’s Secret model, or that Sean Penn (50) is motivated by the desire to start a family with Scarlett Johansson, who’s barely half his age. This is about the cultural cachet of dating a much younger woman—and about the difficult-to-deny reality that younger women lack the experience and wisdom to call their older lovers on their bullshit.
Two recent books do a superb job of puncturing the argument that male sexuality is primarily a creature of evolutionary programming. University of North Carolina professor Martha McGaughey’s The Caveman Mystique: Pop-Darwinism and the Debates Over Sex, Violence and Science (Routledge, 2008) makes the convincing case that our beliefs about male sexuality form the science, and not the other way around. In other words, men who want a reason to chase younger women are desperate to claim that what is a culturally constructed choice is really an unavoidable biological reality.
Cordelia Fine’s Delusions of Gender: How Our Minds, Society, and Neurosexism Create Difference (Norton, 2010) offers a systematic debunking of the idea that men’s sexual decisions are driven largely by brain chemistry. Both Fine and McGaughey make a compelling case that the actual science doesn’t support the idea that men’s sexual desires are driven by evolutionary imperatives.
In other words, John Derbyshire (and a lot of other grown men) may be sexually attracted to underage girls—but they don’t get to blame that fetish on biology.
Even if it were “natural,” there’s nothing innocent or harmless or healthy about older men pursuing substantially younger women. The cost is high to everyone involved. While a few young women may be attracted to much older guys (often because they falsely imagine themselves to be “so much more mature” than “other girls” their age), most are like Amber—disheartened and disgusted by the endless parade of men 10, 20, or 40 years older who harass and hit on them. These young women aren’t flattered. And even if they seem flattered at the time, it doesn’t mean the attention from older men isn’t doing great harm.
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Lynn Phillips, a psychology professor at New York University, did a famous study of young women (mostly under legal age) who were in relationships with significantly older men. Most of the girls she interviewed described these affairs as mutual, exciting, and fulfilling. They pushed back against the suggestion that they were being exploited, claiming in many cases to have initiated or at least welcomed the sex with older men. Phillips then interviewed a similar number of older women. Each of these was over 30, and each had been in a relationship with a much older man while still in her teens. With the benefit of hindsight and experience, these older women acknowledged that they’d been used and hurt and exploited. They admitted that their claims of maturity and sexual adventurousness were all a pretense. In other words, what Phillips found is that while there are some teen girls who are “asking for it,” it’s not what they really want. Teen girls feign sexual sophistication; men need to be able to see through that.
Kerry Cohen, author of Loose Girl and the forthcoming Dirty Little Secrets: Breaking the Silence on Teenage Girls and Promiscuity, argues that “when adult men sexualize teen girls, even just by ogling them, the girls are reminded that their worth in their world is dependent on how sexy they are.” “Girls who choose men so far out of their age ranges,” Cohen writes, “tend toward low self-esteem and depression.” These aren’t sweet coming-of-age stories. And they don’t fit the pornographic story line that young girls are eager for sexual initiation at the hands of an older, wiser mentor.
Here’s the brutal truth, guys. Teen and 20-something women aren’t nearly as interested in much older men as you may think. Sure, there are high school girls with Johnny Depp fantasies, but guess what? You’re not Johnny Depp. (If you were that 48-year-old actor, you’d be devoted to your 38-year-old French girlfriend.) Yes, some young women do flirt with older men. Some do it for validation, some do it for excitement, but a hell of a lot of them do it because guys like you have already taught them that’s the only thing that older men want.
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A true story about the way younger women really see “older men” (and if you’re attracted to 18- to 24-year-olds, you count as “older” if you’re on the high side of 30).
A few years ago, my friend Sean went through a rough divorce. Newly single and almost 40, he went back on the dating scene for the first time in over a decade. But the woman who caught his eye wasn’t someone he met online. She was his favorite barista at his local Starbucks. She was 19.
Next: The girl behind the counter
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About Hugo Schwyzer
Jared you hit it right on the head brother. Guys like Hugo would not say one thing about men having sex with other men for either the reason he supports it or is afraid to go to jail for a hate crime. People like him are driving this country into the ground. As I commented earlier there is a 20 something age difference between my girlfriend and I and we both feel totally natural about our entire relationship. I also failed to mention we are an interracial couple on top of that so we have had our share of lookers but another plus is that both our families are completely supportive of our relationship. Her mother was the very first to welcome me with open arms and always tells my girlfriend that I am a good man. Did you notice people closest to the situation usually are fine with it but control freaks like the guy that wrote this article think they know everything? You and I know guys like Hugo speak like this because they know they could never score a younger more attractive woman and they are just jealous. Older men and younger women started before language and is the most natural thing there is.
Awesome. We are an interracial couple too!
Same to you, I am curious what races you and your boyfriend are from. My guess is white guy black girl because that seems to be on the rise.
Just out of curiosity, what races are you and your girlfriend from? I am a white guy and I find that I am typically attracted to younger black girls.
my dad married a 25 years old girl last month!he is 55 year old..it was ridiculous so i left the house
Dear What Is Love –
Obviously, your father has every right to choose his mate, independent of your approval or disapproval of his choice.
Your moving out of his home sounds like a good move for you, as well as for your father and his new wife, too. It’s sad that you seem to regard your change of residence as some sort of punishment of and rejection of your father. Instead, however, it sounds to me like a natural, healthy evolution in your adult life.
Perhaps your father’s young wife means you will also have more brothers and sisters in your life!
Congratulations!
I hope you will find a way to celebrate your father’s happiness in his new life.
Sincerely,
Liz
ridiculous ? why ?
The choice of a partner does not concern you dude. Do you prefer your dad alone and miserable or happy ? or do you want to keep your dad for you alone.
And it’s horrible ! You left the house ? Dude it’s adults are to do… leaving their parents home sooner or later
“The great lengths to which countless men go to avoid fatherhood suggests that the continued evolutionary imperative to “spread one’s seed” is oversold to the point of being illusory.” – It’s always funny to me how it’s the people most ignorant of evolution that tend to criticize it the most. The fact that many men don’t want to have kids has little to do with the fact that their attraction to younger women is biological in nature. Sexuality is a mixture of both biological and cultural factors, and the same sexual drives are expressed differently in different circumstances and environments, just like how genes can be expressed differently depending on the circumstances. Men have always been attracted to younger women, deal with it.
I love how two fringe element pop-culture books which no doubt have not been peer reviewed and are not scholarly sources are referred to as “evidence” for Hugo’s nonsense position. This is what trolls always do. They take up a marginal idea or cause and back it up with support from the few loonies in the writing community.We could go around finding support for just about anything if we wanted to do things that way. That’s not how science works kiddies.
This is ridiculous. A woman of 18-24 can make up her own mind. They are not weak creatures that need coddling. Now I can understand older men hitting on women younger than this being an issue. A fully grown man approaching a 12 year old is kind of messed up. But to blame men for being attracted to young women is ridiculous. Let’s face it, all people, men and women are in their physical prime at that age. Does it surprise us that they are to be found attractive? Blaming a man for “choosing” to be attracted to this is paramount to blaming someone for choosing to be gay.
Joe -
Your common sense is very welcomed!
A lot of the comments in this post are very ageist and also patronizing to young women, as if they are not adults.
I am 53, and since this discussion began several weeks ago, I have — as throughout my life — been approached by men of various ages, expressing a romantic interest in me.
On my 53rd birthday last month, a man who is not yet 40 took me out on a date.
Romance and sexual attraction includes a wide range of personal preferences for both both men and women. FACT.
I so disagree with this article. I am 23 and also have been attracted to older men but I waited til I was of legal age. Until then I tried to date guys my age but it just didn’t work. I’ve been friend with my fiancée for 3 years bit of us were in relationships at the time so we were able to build an actual friendship. Besides we worked at the same place and neither one of us believed in dating someone you work with. After a few months of being single he asked me out. We have been together for two years, have a house two dogs and both of us work full time jobs. This relationship can work and does work and to put it down is ignorant. I’m not depressed or have daddy issues. We’re in love. The only bad thing I can say is that I fear him dying before me because I would miss him so much. If you want to know or learn about a positive older an younger woman relationship I can tell you or you can read my blog. The fox and the princess on blogger.
I call shenanigans. The biological imperative is key to understanding the interplay between older men and younger women (or older women and younger men, or older men and younger men, or whatever). Just because a modern 40-something man doesn’t actually want to impregnate a 20-something woman doesn’t mean that clear, collagen-rich skin and taut muscles/fatty deposits (which scream fertility) aren’t a huge part of what drives his attraction to her. And as far as the “regrets, I’ve had a few” argument put forth by the author, it’s the worst kind of house-of-cards, self-reporting pseudo-science. I personally dig “hot moms,” women in their 30s and 40s who radiate a ripe mango vibe instead of a un-appetizing green papaya (I’m 40 and reasonably happily married, btw). But I know for a fact that were I single and so inclined, my financial resources alone would attract women in their 20s.
i was 52 and my girlriend 24 when we met //i look younger than my real age //her and i dated and clicked.we’ve been together for 4 years now. and are quite happy. we listen to the same music(evnaescence,green day,etc,)watch the same movies(horror and otherwise mostly 80′s movies) and like doing the same things(carnivals,theme parks,camping,shopping,etc).. when somebody says something stupid like “what could you two possibally have in common ” it’s easy to tell them.
Congratulations Dennis – I’m happy for you…..
The author says “This is about the cultural cachet of dating a much younger woman—and about the difficult-to-deny reality that younger women lack the experience and wisdom to call their older lovers on their bullshit.” There is truth to both of these points, but they aren’t even close to the real reason of ‘This is about…’. This is almost entirely about the sweet young body and fresh looks. Period.
“The author says “This is about the cultural cachet of dating a much younger woman—and about the difficult-to-deny reality that younger women lack the experience and wisdom to call their older lovers on their bullshit.” There is truth to both of these points, but they aren’t even close to the real reason of ‘This is about…’. This is almost entirely about the sweet young body and fresh looks. Period. ‘
I am trying to ignore this topic because the comments have become ridiculous – but I would love to demonstrate for anyone interested that the “cultural cachet” of dating a younger woman (and the disapproval our culture has for younger man – older woman relationships) IS a huge factor – I have walked into situations where my age was thought to be late 20s- early 30s and was flirted with and included in whatever social groups were there. The when they found out my real age (40 something), suddenly I was marginalized. God forbid a guy be seen with an older woman! Even though the same guy was eyeing me up and flirting before he knew my age. Thank god this is very related to particular race/ethnic and socio-economic class. Upper middle and upper class white men being the ones who insist on young and thin. Guys in my own working class neighborhood want “hot” and hour-glass, regardless of age, so I get my fair share of admiration.
Would love to set up experiment in which the same woman goes to various dating sites and setting, but in one group she has her age listed as late 20s, then in the other, early 40s. Guaranteed there will be a big difference in interest no matter how hot she is.
I wish people would mind their own business and let people date who they want. Remember, I stated that there is nothing wrong with the older man – younger woman relationship. But the older man- older woman relationships AND the younger man – older woman relationships can also be fantastic, but tired of some of the men on here who feel they have to insult older woman to defend their choice of younger, insinuating to other men that you are a loser if you have an older woman, no matter how hot she looks — guys who find their older woman atttractive then have to deal with the society pressure to start looking at younger women. Oh well.
IB, may I ask the general age brackets of these social groups where you were marginalized as a 40 year old? Are you referring to people in their late 20s-early 30s or college aged people in their teens and early 20s? If it is the former, that is very strange. If it is the latter, as man you would have been marginalized even if they thought you were in your late 20s. Believe it or not, there is no stigma on women pursuing younger men, only older men pursuing younger women. This is because it is not socially acceptable for a man to be mean to a woman who approached him whereas women are ENCOURAGED to whenever the man is older or unattractive. You have it easy and should really stop complaining. We know all these social rules are aimed at limiting men and their ability to enjoy life and any man with half a brain will never buy into this bs.
Fight the Power: It was late 20s- early 30s group. Believe me, they can be just as immature and snotty as college age.
I don’t know if anyone brought this point up, too: for humans, reproduction is NOT the only function of sex, and, in fact, not even the most important one as we move on in years. Go do research on the subject of how human sex is different from almost all other mammals. There are at least two other important functions – pure pleasure, and long-term bonding, both of which are what majority of women age 40 – 60 are looking for, especially if they already had kids and are finished with that phase. Anyone who says older woman should just give up having a man and sex is trying to repress a basic human drive. And women like me aren’t going to repress it. And don’t tell me what the Bible and religion says about it – show me science and empirical evidence and experience. Now go on arguing on here while I go have sex with my still hot 49 year old husband.
“Anyone who says older woman should just give up having a man and sex is trying to repress a basic human drive.”
Nobody has said that women should give up sex. It’s men who are considered creeps for being interested in a woman sexually without being in a committed relationship with her. But of course, only “mature” men over 25. It’s considered ok for teens and college boys. That’s because when women are young, they want to enjoy those kinds of relationships with boys their own age, but then when women get around 25, most of them are not interested in that kind of thing with guys their age and are just looking for someone to provide for them and be their “companion”. It doesn’t matter if men want to continue to enjoy the casual type of relationships they did when they were younger, they are expected to not date younger girls and only date women their age who are looking to settle down. Of course if older women still want to enjoy casual relationships, which they usually don’t, they are allowed to pursue it with whoever they like. Basically the whole system is made to repress men’s desires and give women more power.
Fight the Power – .I give up – you see the system as stacked against men, and yes there is a lot of unfair crap such as divorce and child custody laws that are unfair to men. My only issue here was that why, when older men (say, 30 – 50) are attracted to younger women who are at least 10 years younger, WHICH IS PERFECTLY NATURAL, – but WHY do SOME of these men have to justify this attraction to younger women by trashing OLDER women (40+) like me? It is also PERFECTLY NATURAL for a 30 – 50 year old man to be attracted to women their own age or older. If she’s hot, she’s hot – my husband loves Julianne Moore above every other actress and she is a few years older than him. I’m tired of older women being talked about by some, certainly not all, men as if we are the consolation prize, or even the booby prize, if you can’t get someone in their 20s. Sorry but there is no way I am “less” than a white trash Barbie. 21 years old, with a GED working a minimum wage job, with 3 kids already (all different dads) – but because she looks like Megan Fox, some of the men on here have outright said they would pick her over any woman their own age. And you know what – good for them, go get the younger woman and good luck, as long as there are enough men who value women their own age, I’ll be fine.
Actually, I wasn’t even talking about divorce or child custody laws, I am mainly just talking about the social norms when it comes to dating, flirting, and attraction.
Maybe some men talk about older women like that, but it is definitely not the norm. I am 24 and growing up guys around me have always seemed to be attracted to older women in the same way as they are to girls their own age. Yet the reaction of young girls to the idea of getting involved with a guy over 30(even over 25 really) has always been something along the lines of “eww gross” or “creepy”. So to me it seems to be the other way around.
Me personally, I don’t really care about age. I would choose 41 year old Taraji P. Henson any day over Megan Fox. Of course, Megan Fox isn’t that hot in my opinion. But I would pick Taraji over most hot young actresses. Of course, that’s not to say I won’t also be attracted to young women. So when I am attracted to a younger women, I don’t want to be judged for it.
Read the book of Ruth from the Bible. If it works for the ones involved…it works…no matter the reasons. After all we are all just people trying to get by in this thing called life. Leave it lay people! It is what it is….
I just had a friend die….. and I think he would say to us all now…. we all just do the best we can with the cards we are dealt… thats the bottom line…
I was recently watching The Daily Show and they have this new correspondent on there named Jessica Williams. In my opinion, she is EXTREMELY hot. I assumed she was in her late 20s or early 30s or so because she is indistinguishable from a woman in her late 20s physically and because of the program she is on. But I looked her up and apparently she is only 22! It just reminds me how absolutely ridiculous people are to suggest that women in their early 20s are too young for men over 30 to be attracted to. Like I said, she is physically indistinguishable from women in their late 20s and early 30s and it seems to be the same mentally as well. I can’t see myself, even when I am in my 30s and 40s, seeing a woman like that and thinking “oh she’s too young, I don’t find her attractive”. If that’s what you people expect, dream on, because that’s not the way things are, the way things have ever been, or the way things will ever be in the real world.
Fight the Power, I think the author just wanted to make the point that SOME young women (like, under 23 years old) don’t like it or understand it when men 10+ years older approach them. Evidently there are men that are not aware of that. I didn’t like it when I was that young. By the time I was 25, I was OK with it. I matured a bit.
My husband is almost 50 and points out attractive young 20-ish women all the time when we are out, no one is saying the attraction is not natural. You sound like you have been burned by some particularly nasty young women and now are pissed off at just about everyone. Don’t blame all women just because some of them are abusive. Just like I don’t judge all men by the ones that make it very clear that they love girls – but aren’t that crazy about women.
A woman who is 22 and thinks older men should not approach her is stuck up and shallow, and that behavior should be regarded as such. I would not mind at all if a woman over 30 was attracted to me and if she was hot I’d actually love it. I think instead of trying to get men to stop approaching younger women, we should be trying to get young women to stop being stuck up.
Yeah, so you were a shallow stuck up young woman. Not all young women are like that.
Wow – good luck finding a young woman like I was who went with men based on how sexually attractive and also how mutually compatible I found them – in other words if we had FUN hanging out together — unlike the VAST majority of younger women who judge by your financial success and who are only too happy to go with older men ONLY if and because the man has a good income, house, etc, and wants to settle down. You’re an ass for calling me superficial and shallow and now I am sorry I even bothered trying to communicate with you. Have a nice life!
For your information, I’m 24, so “young” women aren’t really “younger” than me. As for you, I don’t really care why you dated men. If a guy is attracted to you are bothered by it, that makes you stuck up, regardless of his age. You should be grateful that man would be interested in you. And what makes you think young women can’t be sexually attracted to and have fun with older guys? I know a woman over 30 I would LOVE to date, so why can’t 21-24 year old women feel the same way about men over 30?
As for calling you shallow, I meant when you were young. I thought you would have realized that by now. Look, if you didn’t want to date someone older than you because of compatibility reasons, that’s one thing. But you said that you DID NOT LIKE IT when older men showed interest in you. That is not because of compatibility, it is ALL about looks. I know the attitude. In fact, girls who think like that would LOVE it if a hot younger looking older guy approached them, they only hate it when the guy is not attractive. There is nothing wrong with only wanting to date people you find attractive, but if you think someone is not worthy to approach you based on their looks, that is stuck up and shallow. Sorry.
“unlike the VAST majority of younger women who judge by your financial success and who are only too happy to go with older men ONLY if and because the man has a good income, house, etc, and wants to settle down. ”
Actually, this seems to describe what most 25+ women are looking for. Most younger women seem to have no interest in how much money a guy has and just date whoever they’re attracted to. And I wouldn’t have it any other way. But of course, they tend to only date young good looking guys. So basically, it seems to me like all women regardless of their age, are ONLY attracted to hot young guys and other women, but when they are older, they want to settle down and the hot young guys can’t help them with that, so they go for guys they are not really attracted to. Yall really deserve a round of applause.
And even though you deny it, I can tell you have a serious problem with men dating younger women. But of course, it doesn’t bother you when women date younger men.
I am not an older man, but I can tell that the reason some older men date younger women is probably because they want to be with someone who is genuinely attracted to them and not someone who is just looking for a good provider to settle down with because all the guys they are attracted to are young and not ready for that.
And what’s there to not understand about men 10+ years older being attracted to you? If you are attractive and an adult, of course men are going to be attracted to you. Read any biology book.
The author has an agenda, and that agenda is to try to stop men from dating younger women because he doesn’t like it, the same way people used to not like interracial relationships. He is nothing more than a bigot.
Oh and why are you complaining about how older women are not appreciated when you admit that as a young woman you did not appreciate older men? Older women get tons of attention from young men, so how are they the ones who are unappreciated???
“Older women get tons of attention from young men” – wow, I wish I could be single again for a few days ’cause I would love to hang out where all these adoring young men are!
Interesting. Based on the way you talk, you still find younger men more attractive than older men and prefer their attention. But you are under the impression that you are too old to attract them and my guess is that is why you go for men your age, not because you actually prefer men your age. If you really found men your age as attractive as younger men, you wouldn’t have minded them approaching you when you were under 25. My guess is that like most women, you got self-conscious about your age at 25 and this is what led you to be more tolerant of older men, and that if you were still as confident as you were in college, you would still have a “boys under 25 only” policy. So really, you can’t complain about older women not being appreciated, since you as a woman don’t appreciate older men.
All I will tell you is that your above conclusions are wrong, but if you want to go the rest of your life believing them, good luck.
And here’s another thing that proves that your aversion to older men had nothing to do with compatibility and was all superficial. You now admit that you would love to get attention from younger men. So if older men flirt with you, you don’t like it because they are older and you have nothing in common, but if younger men flirt with you it’s a dream come true? That’s what pisses me off about women. They would love it even if the guy is a 15 year old CHILD, as long as he’s cute, but if the guy is older and unattractive, it’s “gross”. Hypocrite.
And I actually haven’t been “burned” by any women. But of course, I have never dated anyone yet and I am usually too shy to approach women. And this feminazi crap I read on here really doesn’t help with that. And no, I’m not pissed off at everyone, just shallow stuck up girls and everyone who wants to be a bigoted fascist and control who gets to date who.
I am definitely a man of around the ‘creepy old guy’ age of 45 and I have quite a lot of experience when it comes to the teen girl/older man scenario. I mean I have actually studied it from a marketing perspective and I have to say that I have come to a couple of conclusions about this topic that differ slightly from article’s author.
I realize there are men out there that absolutely get off on the idea of forbidden fruit and that this impulse may drive them to do things like tell a 12 year old that she has great ‘tits’. I do not understand what this leering, perverse fool would hope to accomplish with this activity. In his mind, I wonder did he see her begging him to let him touch or see them. Who knows, the effect was to traumatize someone and if that were my daughter I would want something to be done about it.
However, I find the nude image of girls between the ages of 18 and 24 to be arousing as well and I will even confess to lusting after a few in my day but…. I think a lot of what makes me look at teen girls is not so much that I want to get wild and bump uglies with them. When I see them I often see girls from my past, girls I had relationships with or crushes on and this brings on a wave of nostalgia and sentimentality that is sweet in a way and creepy in another (the occasional erection can be considered creepy).
While I concede that images or videos of teen girls engaged in sexual activity is, in fact, stimulating, I also assert that it is mere fantasy and the consumers of this know that. I personally have found that men my age, the ones capable of rational thought would never date a woman half or more our ages. It is ridiculous to think you can have a fulfilling relationship with a teen girl when you’re a man in your late 30s or 40s. As a man, you have seen and done too much.
I think most men, while enjoying the fantasy, really want women around their own age. Women that can relate to their experiences and who have learned through their lifetime how to really treat a man right and expect the same in return. These women know how to seduce and arouse in ways a 20 year old girl, no matter how mature she may be, could ever fathom. The best part about women in their 30s and 40s is that a well-rounded man can and will enjoy their company both prior to intercourse and well afterwards.
So can you tell me why exactly it is inappropriate for an older guy to lust after 18-24 year olds? Last I checked, they were adults and I see no reason why it would be wrong for a guy to be attracted to them. Especially when we are talking about women 21 and up. In one of my posts above I was talking about the new correspondent on the Daily Show, Jessica Williams. That woman is 22. To me, she is indistinguishable from a woman in her late 20s. There is absolutely nothing about to to suggest she is “too young” or “immature”.
One thing I pointed out before on here is that it is often impossible to distinguish a college aged girl from a woman in her late 20s based on looks alone. Asian and Black women especially, tend to have youthful faces and tend to look the same when they are in their late 20s and even 30s. It’s the same with some Caucasian women. So are yous suggesting that it’s wrong for older men to be attracted to these women and that they should only like women with mature womanly features?
Aside, sorta: I am shocked that the new USA network’s TV series about a woman lawyer is called “Fairly Legal”–an obvious play on “Barely Legal”. It really bothers me.
A little wink at the viewers!
http://www.usanetwork.com/series/fairlylegal/
Honestly, what pisses me off more than people saying that it’s wrong for older men to be attracted to young women is people talking about how young women “aren’t attracted to older men and only want guys their own age”. Young men are attracted to older women and lots of older women are attracted to younger men. So why can’t young women be attracted to older men? What you are essentially saying is that older men are just unattractive. So when older women say this, they are basically admitting that they aren’t actually attracted to men their age and would prefer someone younger, meanwhile saying it’s wrong for older men to like younger women.
When I am in my 30s, I will probably be dating women closer to my age. But if I feel like young women are no longer attracted to me, that is damaging to my self confidence, because I know it is not about compatibility, but actually about me not being as attractive as younger men. I mean, young men get attention from older women, so why shouldn’t an older man get attention from younger women, unless he is just not attractive? Older women don’t like being told they’re no longer attractive, so neither do older men.
Of all the comments posted hear, I agree with Fight the Power the most. And for all the author’s good intentions with which he concludes his article, I absolutely resent the underlying assumptions he makes about the supposed motivations and intelligence levels of teen girls. Teen girl automatically equals stupid? I’m sorry, not cool. Some role model if you can’t even give us basic dignity.
And for the women who are obviously letting their own insecurities shine through, just why in HELL would you even feel the need to defend your self-image as older women and feel competitive towards girls half your age or younger? Isn’t the whole point of having matured being that you’re past that and that you’re happy and comfortable with yourself? You’d think you wouldn’t need to pick out all the flaws of someone being appreciated, most of the time in all good humor, for something like youthful beauty and innocence.
Yes, that is a superficial trait to admire, but well, what is the fun in life if we don’t have at least some superficial traits we enjoy indulging in? Live and let live, be happy that someone finds you attractive and be happy loving yourself.
And being a pervert has absolutely NOTHING to do with age but someone’s CHARACTER! As if nothing else could exist between two people attracted to each other than sex. What a pathetic one-dimensional way to live.
And dare I admit it…I’m a 20 year old girl who absolutely ADORES men 10 to 15 years older than me for their ripe mature faces and the overall attractiveness that comes from an older man and have ever since I was 14. Yes, at the illegal age of 14, I must have not been a human being like a 30 year old woman. I must have only been motivated by proving my sexual sophistication to them. NO WAY could I possibly just enjoy looking up to an older man as a role model and feeling attracted to him at the same time. =)
Instead of people from different age groups living harmoniously together, we end up in petty fights trying to throw dirt on each other. After all, we’re only after sex and good looks. Instead of older women teaching younger girls to respect and esteem themselves, they demean them. Also I can tell you, never have I or my friends bothered to waste our time talking about “ugly” older women. I wonder who the immature ones really are?
Yup, I agree with you 100% as well. Most of the women who bash older men for liking younger women are hypocrites, and it’s clear if you really analyze the stuff they say. Take IB above for example. She complains about men not liking older women, but then she admits that when she was under 25, she did not like attention from older men. And it’s obvious it has nothing to do with age differences, because she talks about how right now she would like getting attention from younger men. So basically, it’s that she doesn’t find older men attractive.
I think for some older women they are jealous of younger women, but with others, they just envy men and hate to see them enjoying life. It’s pretty pathetic in my opinion.
Yeah, and I really get pissed off about this hidden agenda…”LET’S PROTECT YOUNG GIRLS!” Um, I think it was pretty clear to me growing that I would be the one protecting myself and not having other “adults” assert their authority over my body or self. If a man is creeping on you, I don’t care if he’s 14, 18, 28, or 58 he’s still the same sleaze. If a man is respectful towards you, whatever his age, he’s awesome. That’s that.
Honestly, in discussions like these, and I’ve seen so many in online communities, the duality always involves a combination of wanting to protect a girl too incapable of protecting herself and bashing her for being too stupid and immature. Somehow an advanced age symbolizes some form of demonism when attraction is directed towards someone considered too “young” by society. Don’t people even stop to think how utterly bogus that is? I mean, shouldn’t the same standards in respect apply to anyone without having to count numbers for crying out loud?
Yup there’s a sexist element to it as well. There’s this idea ingrained in our society that young women are “weak” and that older men have some sort of power to manipulate them. This is absolutely ridiculous, because being older doesn’t give you the power to manipulate younger people. If anything, it’s intelligence that would give someone the power to manipulate another person. So should we start saying that intelligent people shouldn’t date less intelligent people?
This sexist attitude is best demonstrated by the fact that so many fathers show hostility towards men try to get involved with their daughters, but if a woman were to get involved with their sons, they would never show the same hostility, even if the woman was much older. You will find this especially among old-fashioned conservative men. Interestingly enough, this is just about the only issue that these kinds of men will agree with feminists about. These men probably hate feminists more than anyone else. But they are doing a very good job of helping to enforcing this feminist-created social norm.
It’s funny how the system works. The feminists oppose older men dating younger women because they hate seeing men get what they want and be happy, and the misogynistic men oppose it because they think their daughters are too dumb to make decisions on their own. Of course, many of these men probably had sex with younger women before they got married(maybe even after), but it’s all good because their small right-wing minds can’t understand the concept of being a hypocrite.
Honestly, it’s really nice to see that some young women appreciate older men. You always hear about young men obsessing over older women, so why should older men get the same attention from young women? When I’m in my 30s, I will most likely be dating women closer to my age, but I would like to still get attention from college girls. I mean, I don’t see why a guy would not get attention from younger girls unless he is just not attractive. And “not attractive” means not attractive to women his own age too. So it is a confidence thing. When I someone says “young women don’t want men over 30″, to me they are really saying “women don’t want men over 30″. It’s really simple logic, I don’t see why most women don’t see to get it.
When asked about that, some women will say “well, when we’re older we’re looking for a different kind of relationship than when we were young”. But what you’re looking for in a relationship doesn’t affect who you think is hot. The more I read what these women have to say, the more it seems like they aren’t attracted to men their age at all and only go for them because the younger guys can’t provide the relationship they’re looking for.
Feminists: Why do men in their 30s go for younger girls? Younger girls want hot guys their own age, not ugly old men in their 30s. Why don’t men learn to appreciate women their own age? (Of course, I am 30 and I am still only attracted to hot younger guys, but now I am looking for someone who will provide and be a good father, not someone I’m attracted to, so the men in their 30s should date me)
Conservative dads: If an older man tries to get with my 19 year old daughter, I’ll get my shotgun and blow the pervert’s head off. But there’s nothing wrong with older women having sex with young boys though, cuz we boys want it. When I was 14, I had sex with my hot teacher and it was great. Boys are different from girls, girls are fragile and need to be protected.(Except before I was married with a daughter, I did always try to pick up younger women and had sex with a few)
WHAT THIS WOMAN HAS POSTED IS NOT BULLSHIT, AND YOU SO CALLED MEN NEED TO LISTEN.
At 17, I stood 5’11’’ and 150 lbs, and when I look at old photos of myself, I just say WOW!!, I was so beautiful and seriously did not have a lick of self-esteem. At that point in my life there is only one word that could describe me NIAVE. I was riding the bus coming home from school one night and when I got off at the first stop. One of the biggest challenges of my life was waiting for me; it came in the package of a 47 yr. old man, with enough Swag to kill you. My conversation with him lasted about 15 minutes, and in those 15 minutes he promised me the world. I guess plain ole stupidity was blinding me at the moment, because how could I have expected him to fulfill his promises if he was riding the bus like I was? Anyway, I was curious and I called him, a major warning sign should have flashed when he wanted to have phone sex with me the first night I called him…….The relationship went on, of course my parents and most of my friends disapproved. But I didn’t care, he said he loved me and every bone in my body believed him. And because I chose to believe this, I endured many years of social, mental, and physical abuse so much that I am crying writing this. Strangely, in some sick, demented way I needed him to make me feel beautiful, loved, and wanted.
To make a LONG story short so much TIME has gone by, I am 23 now and because of him and all his abuse I no longer have my size 6 figure, I have a child by him, and I find myself unable to accomplish any goal I set out to do. But you know what, despite all of this, because I am a bit older and know a bit more I find myself realizing that I am still beautiful, and way too young for this now 53 year old man, I look at my daughter and I don’t want her to suffer the same fate. I realize now that it was my low self-esteem, my own “Daddy Issues”, and that fact that I was just plain young, dumb, and you know the rest that led me to be with him. I still have not found my way out of this relationship, my heart is filled with so much resentment, every day I tell him and show him that I want out, but he thinks he owns me or deserves me. And the fact that I have let this man control my every move for the past almost 7 years has made it difficult, but don’t worry for me, the longest rope has its end, and I WILL get out of this relationship.
WORDS OF ADVICE: for those of you NIAVE girls out there that think “my old man would never abuse me”, think again…when he won’t allow you to go out with friends-THAT’S ABUSE, because believe it or not you need this time with friends this is YOUR time to enjoy YOUR youth, because please believe when he was your age, he did. When he won’t allow you to go jogging because “you could get snatched or something”-THAT’S ABUSE. When he won’t allow you to be the young women that you are, and wear the clothes that you want to wear-THAT’s abuse. I could seriously go on and on and on. But what I am trying to say is… Men leave that young girl alone, you’ve lived you’re life, let her live hers. Even at 23, I know that I won’t think the way I think now or have the same interest that I have when I am 30. Let alone when I was seven TEEN or eight TEEN. I keep thinking to myself how much better my life would be if this old as dirt, piece of pervert crap man never approached me. So MEN If you want to feel young, go buy a motorcycle. Don’t take a joy ride on a young woman’s youth, you’ve had your years and it’s not fair to take hers.
If any young girls out there need advice or just to talk I’m here, email me at thefinder2265@gmail.com
Ok, so you were in an abusive relationship. What does that have to do with the guy’s age? I’ve heard about WAY more young women being abused by guys their own age than by older men. Yes I agree that 17 is too young for a 47 year old, but once you’re in your early 20s, I think it’s perfectly fine to date men in their 30s or 40s.
“Don’t take a joy ride on a young woman’s youth, you’ve had your years and it’s not fair to take hers.”
what makes you think that just because a guy is older he’s already “had his youth”? I am 24 and I have never gotten a chance to date anyone yet. Most 18 year old girls have enjoyed much more of youth than I have.
And I wonder, do you feel the same way about 30something and 40something women pursing younger men? Would you tell women to stay away from younger men? Because I would not mind if an older woman was attracted to me.
Oh and don’t be too down on yourself, if you didn’t meet that guy, your life probably wouldn’t be much better. You probably would have hooked up with a bunch of douchebags around your age who would have used you and then tossed you aside for the next hot girl when they got bored. Sounds like a lot of fun right?
Fight the power,
You can say what you want, but this is my personal experience, his age had ALOT to do with the abuse. Because he’s older he had much more control over the relationship, he said when to use a condom and when to not (for example). And because I was so Young, I dint feel I was entitled to say NO. And yes even though your pervert ass won’t admit it, you ARE taking a joy ride on someone else’s youth. I don’t care if you didn’t get to have fun you’re youth; the FACT is… you had it, it was YOURS, and you don’t deserve to take it from someone else. AND NO!! I don’t think that a woman should date a much younger guy, because she can take just as much advantage of him. As that old fart did of me!
And in reference to the statement you made about young guys taking advantage me…….That is EXACTLY what he told me would happen if he didn’t come along and “save” me. And the Irony of it is, that is exactly what he did. I would rather be tossed aside from a guy my age, than suffer the abuse I’ve been going through all these years. At least I would have been able to get a CHANCE at finding a decent partner. One that wasn’t slapping old heavily used balls over me and one that I wouldn’t be burying the same time with my parents!!! So instead fighting the power, you need fight the urge to troll for jailbait!
And I still fail to see how being older gives a guy anymore power over whether or not you can use a condom. Do older people have magical mind control powers or something?
And again, I’m a 24 year old virgin who has never dated anyone, if you STILL think I have the ability to take advantage of a girl who is 3-4 years younger than me just because of my age, then you have absolutely no credibility.
Obsessing over a young actress or moviestar that you probably will never meet, and actually going out and getting a young boy, is two different things. And you can say I’m lying all u want but I have spoke my piece. The Young is for the Young, and Old is for the Old. Period.
If out of all the movie stars out there, you obsess with the one that is underage, then you probably WILL get with an underage person. Do you think most of these women wouldn’t date Taylor Lautner if they had the chance? You know they would, and you would have no problem with it.
You should change your statement to “young girls are for young men”, but young men can date whoever they want”.
And even if you are telling the truth, it’s still a meaningless statement. What is “young” and what is “old”? Is there a magical age where one becomes “old” and is suddenly capable of taking advantage of people under that age? It’s all arbitrary really. People mature differently. I know 19 year olds who are more mature than 25 year olds. It’s about life experience, not age.
What do you mean I feel guilty or conflicted about a relationship? There is no relationship. I’m not in one. But I don’t think there would be anything to feel guilty about if I dated a girl 4-5 years younger than me.
And you say that he can control you because he knows what women your age wanted to know? Well guess what, I DON’T. Like I said, I have never dated anyone, so I am pretty much clueless about women. How does that qualify me to take advantage of a woman? Just because a guy is older doesn’t mean he’s experienced. Just like just because a girl is young doesn’t mean she’s inexperienced.
And as for your last comment, yes I am virgin because I’ve never dated anyone. I was a loser in high school and have confidence issues because of that and have trouble talking to girls. Not my fault. But I actually think I’m a catch, so when I do get over my confidence issues, I’ll probably end up with one of the highest quality girls. And I won’t settle for any less.
In any event if you do not believe me about the physcial age of marriage being twelve in some contries you may look it up.
And as for your last comment, yes I am virgin because I’ve never dated anyone. I was a loser in high school and have confidence issues because of that and have trouble talking to girls. Not my fault. But I actually think I’m a catch, so when I do get over my confidence issues, I’ll probably end up with one of the highest quality girls. And I won’t settle for any less.—
OK lets play on that, Lets say when you were in high school with all your confidence issues, some 47 year old woman who looked like 20 came guaking at you, and lets say you began a relationship with this person and down through the years she used and abused you. How would you feel? and don’t tell me you wouldnt have started anything with this woman because you probably would have because she would have played all of your weaknesses like a brand new violin.
Yeah I probably would have started something with her. But probably not a long term relationship because I wasn’t(and still am not) looking for that yet. And yeah it would suck if she “abused me” but it would be no better if it was a girl my age. And I think a girl my age would have been just as able to “play all my weaknesses” to be honest.
Are you kidding me Fight the power, there is a difference in age. Have you ever realized that only old people ever say, “Age is a state of mind”. Its because there old. My grandfather is 78 and will tell you that he feels like 20, but the truth is, HES OLD!!!! And even if people mature differently the difference between a 19 year old dating a guy whos 50 and 30 year old doing it, is experience and despite what you may believe you have to actually live life to get life experience. A 19 year old can’t truly tell you that she’s had life experience. Heck most 19 years I know still havent been to a funeral of a friend or someone close or had to go a week without food or lights. At 30 you’ve lived a decent amount of life and you have at least began to find yourself and know who you trully are. At 16 or 20 or 23, youre barely getting off your parents health insurance!!
Age aint nothing but a number, Ta LOCA!!!!
Yes, but I think when you get to a certain age, you are no longer a child and you are capable of making your own decisions and at that point, an older person shouldn’t really be capable of taking advantage of you. Again, if we are talking about a 17 year old or someone under 21, then yes, perhaps they haven’t reached that level yet and an older person can have some influence over them. But when you get into your early 20s, I think you are past that. Me, I’ve never dated anyone, still live with my parents, and still go to college, so really in terms of life experience I’m pretty similar to a 19 year old. But I think I am capable of dating someone much older without them having power over me.
I mostly seem to be into girls around my age, but if woman like Taraji Henson(who is like 43) was hitting on me, I’d be all over that in a heartbeat.