Scott Mclelland relives his agonizing tale of abuse and credits his damaging past as the catalyst for him becoming the good man he is today.
I honestly never thought I’d bring myself to write my story, but as a casual reader of Good Men Project, I found myself having to write this, to offer up a perspective, if nothing else.
Before I go any further I will offer full disclosure: I am an MRA, and no I don’t hate all women. I have a hard time trusting them; something that has led me down a road where I am happy living as a single guy through choice.
August 1, 1987. My world fell apart when my stepfather died. I was at my grandmothers that day and I can even remember the time. It was half past 10 in the morning when I was called into the living room. I was told that he had gone to work and had come home for breakfast and had a heart attack. It was sudden and he was gone. The man who was the center. I was only eight years old.
He came from Stranrar on the coast between Scotland and Ireland and grew up on a farm. He was very old school in his ways, and believed in looking after people and protecting them. He was the head of the family, but as he told me, it was never about my mother, or my sister, or even me being less than him; it was about him loving us and wanting us to be happy, to have the best in life. And he worked like a dog to try and give us this.
The funeral was a blur. My most vivid memories from it was my grandmother not wanting me to see the body, but I wanted to. I needed to see him. I was always trying to live up to being a man and the last time I saw him alive, because of the people around, I only shook his hand and said goodbye. I didn’t hug him. I didn’t tell him I loved him because I wanted to show strength and I needed to say goodbye. I needed to tell him I loved him so my mother let me do it. But boy, when I got back to my grandmother’s I paid the price. I went from my grandmother comforting me to calling me a “little bastard” for not doing as I was told. Someone I was supposed to get comfort from hurt me so much, and it caused me so much pain on top of the confusion and the anger I was already experiencing that I could never forgive her. At age 15 I cut all ties with my grandmother, and until her death didn’t have contact, and I have no regrets.
♦◊♦
Time passed and I found myself becoming more and more introverted. I excelled at school, but found myself distanced from people. I couldn’t get close to my classmates. Most of all, I couldn’t invite them home after school, since I didn’t want anyone to see what it was I had to wear long sleeves, even in the summer.
My mother had found herself alone. It’s weird looking back, because I can almost understand why things happened, but I cannot forgive what happened; it’s a confusing state of affairs to say the least. With each day she got more angry at the world, but didn’t have a focus in life.
My “Auntie” was a woman in her 40’s, single and very much a student of what we would describe as “radical feminism.” She somehow managed to twist my stepfather’s heart attack into a selfish act, into him being a “misogynist” by working so much and leaving her with two kids and nothing to help her grow and improve. Men became the enemy and dating went out the window because “men are all rapists,” and the inherent badness that was the male was manifested in me.
At that time, I was a socially backward 10 year old, who was cut off from friends and any form of a male role mode.l I was not allowed to join the scouts, as it promoted patriarchal values. My sister was more and more distanced from me as well. At 9 years old she was saying I was a potential rapist. In her mind, I was bad, and her anger grew more, and more. We even had a copy of the scum manifesto on the coffee table.
♦◊♦
At the time, my mother was a drinker, and one hell of a violent drunk. Her resentment toward me grew, and the fact that I was beginning to look more and more like my biological father didn’t help. She started to lash out more often. At first there was an occasional slap, then a full blown punch, then full beatings. I still have two scars on my cheek from when she took a leather belt to my face. She was a woman who didn’t need a man, and she seemed to believe that with each beating she became more liberated. One of my most vivid memories at that time was lying on the ground in the hall outside of the kitchen and seeing her shoes, black patent 4 inch high heels which she proceeded to kick me with. I actually learned that you can get a hernia if kicked just right. It’s a little known fact, but trust me, it’s true.
When I was 13 I saw my biological father, someone who I hadn’t had much contact with over the years. Though, I was able to spend some time with him. One weekend he took me to Blackpool and it was wonderful. I was with people who cared. I was treated as a human being and I can honestly say it was the happiest I had ever felt. I imagined that it was the way most kids felt all the time. I actually felt that someone loved me. It may not sound like anything special to most, but to a kid who had been shown nothing but hate it was an amazing sensation as well as a catalyst. When it was time to go home to my mother I found myself in tears, begging not to go. I broke down and told my father everything. Eventually the police were called on my mother, and for the first time in five years I slept without fear. I was safe .
♦◊♦
We ending up having to go to court. We talked with social workers and solicitors, I went to a new school, and actually made friends. I found myself coming out of a very dark, very long tunnel. I even got to join the boys brigade. for 13 weeks and six days I was happy. I was loved and I was safe.Then the courts ordered me back home, because it was in the best interests that as a child I was with my mother. I had never felt such terror in my life, and I was filled with horror and anger as I went back home.
I had grown that summer I was nearly 6 foot tall and had grown in confidence, grown as a person, and my mother didn’t want me back. She told me many times that she fought to get me back just to get one over on my father. The first night I was back she hit me. The first few slaps immediately brought with them the fear I had known so well. That clawing feeling of helplessness. And then I got angry and did something I, to this day, have never done to another person. I punched her square in the jaw, knocking her on her ass and standing over her screaming to never, ever touch me again. She never lay a finger on me after that, but she never stopped hating me.
You can only endure hate for so long before you start to develop coping mechanisms. For me, it was simply to stop caring. For all of the hate I endured, I simply started to hate back. My grades suffered and I became cut off in a different way. I used arrogance as a mask; I hung out on the streets with others like me; I got drunk and I did a few things that I’m not proud of, even to this day. But I survived.
Then came the defining moment in my life, which changed my connection to my family and, in many ways, the world. On my 15th birthday I went out to a club with friends. Being 6’2″ and able to grow a full beard made going to clubs a whole lot easier, and I will admit I got more than a little drunk on cider and aftershock shots. I remember staggering home that night. I remember walking into the living room and that my mum had friends with her. I remember my “Auntie” telling my mother she would take me upstairs. The rest of the night is blurry, but I remember being on my bed as she pulled my jeans off, and I remember her being on top of me and me inside of her. I was drunk, and I mean majorly, majorly drunk. I did not consent. There was no way I could ever have done so. I was a virgin, and contrary to popular opinion, not all boys run solely on hormones.
The next morning I felt ill. It wasn’t just the hangover. Something felt wrong. The whole morning felt so wrong, as if something terrible had happened to me. I had scratch marks on my chest. The event that occurred had been unprotected, and in the 90s HIV was becoming more and more discussed. I turned to my doctor and got the necessary tests. I also got PEP (a dose of HIV medication to try and reduce the risks), which meant I was throwing up for days. I was massively ill and extremely scared.
My mother ,who each day did the bare minimum (checked that I was alive and washed some sheets so the house didn’t stink), discovered the medication and demanded to know everything. In that critical moment I did something that, to this day, I regret. I told her what happened the night with her friend, and what happened afterwards shocked and still angers me to this day.
I was accused of raping her. I was vile and disgusting and I must have forced myself on her friend because she is a woman and wouldn’t have done this by choice. I must have committed a vile act, and it was even worse that I assumed her friend potentially had a disease. That night my bags were packed and I was told to go. I haven’t been back since. It’s hard to explain how confused I was then. I was angry more confused, and I was outside, alone on a September night.
Thankfully, I had made a good friend at school. A geek by any other standard, but a good man to this day, and someone I consider a brother. He found me at the school after dark, sitting on the steps drinking a bottle of buck fast. Next thing I knew I ended up back at his house and something amazing happened. I ended up a part of a family. His mother, who was also a single mother, took me into her home and looked after me, fed me, and made me feel like I was loved. I felt more love in the three years I was there than I had through most of my life. She encouraged me to go to college, and now, I have a degree. She never had time for feminism (she was in similar circles to my birth mother at one time ) but was a believer in love, in being the best person she could, and she took an angry young man and helped him become what I believe I am, a good man.
♦◊♦
We talk about how life shapes us, how it makes us who we are. I am never alone now; I have good friends, and when I want it, female company isn’t hard to come by. But my experiences with women has shaped me. I don’t think I will ever settle down. I think I am happy relying on myself and those who I trust, as trusting someone is not easy. I am too gun-shy now, but I have survived, I have done more than many in my situation would have done.
People ask me why I am an MRA, why I avoid anything with a feminist label. The answer is simple: I have seen and been part of a damaging past that has happened through bad people using feminism as an excuse to hate and to do bad things. I have been diminished and despised because I’m a man. I don’t hate women because of this. I know there are more good women than bad, in the same way that there are more good men than bad. But the MRA is one place where I haven’t been judged. I haven’t been made to feel shame for what has happened to me. I haven’t been called a liar or been made to feel like one.
Being a man is a difficult thing. It always has been, and now more than ever we need to answer a lot of questions about who we are as men. But it has to be defined by men. One of the things that we have to do is take back the right to define ourselves, which is something that has been taken away from us. By taking the pains we have endured and sharing them we can achieve so much. We can become so much, but we can only do it ourselves, and we can never feel bad about this, no matter what anyone says.
—Photo SamboD/Flickr
About Scott Mclelland
Vocalyze
My God. My heart goes out to you for what you’ve suffered.
Abusers will use any belief system to justify their abuse. The problem with feminism is that it has that strain of male blame, and abusers love to blame.
I agree Typhon , its why I have ended up really , really weary of feminism, its hard keeping a balance sometimes, its would be so easy just to hate them all because that is what they have left me with inside but i wont as doing so would make me into someone i dont want to be , I took the definition of what a good man is from the time I have a good man in my life, its why I am so passionate about the fact that the only people who have a right to define what a good man is should be men ourselves, one of the most important things this site can do is to help men realise that in themselves is what a good man is and to be honest to hell with any woman who tries to define it, its not there right .
It’s that strain of male blame that makes me leery of feminism as well.
It’s one thing to point out that people are perpetuating outdated and dysfunctional gender dynamics; it’s quite a bother to _blame_ one gender for it. Or even say that one gender is somehow benefiting(which amounts to the same thing as blaming them.) (This assignment of blame, IMHO, is just part of those outdated and dysfunctional gender dynamics.)
thanks for sharing your story…I guess each one of us who have been abused will arrive at some point in our lives where we open up about our abused past; it’ll be rough and raw, but in doing so will become easier to disclose. Your story, along with Ashar Ali and others, will help people in similar situations to relate and not feel so alone in their angst and sadness. Childhood should be innocent and carefree, and teenage years should be about discovery and self-identity; and not be about burdensome memories that one carries into adulthood. You and others have our compassion and support!
Unlike the large awareness and support groups for alcoholics, abused men still have much stigma to overcome, as well as breaking down that fortress they put up to keep their abuse a secret, and on the outside a veil of unwavering strength and flawlessness. I’ve been there and been abused myself (7 years) because i had not known any different and it has taken much longer to move on and seeking closure of the past, but this was partly due to the length of the abuse. All that emotion and all that pain was bottled in…just waiting to be smashed and released. But for all that to happen an abused person needs to feel safe, be heard and not judged and also be taken seriously. This always come with a risk if disclosed to the wrong party, the dynamics of the relationship(s) may change…but if this happens, really are they your friends…?
I believe all of these conversations and personal narratives on GMP will help break down the social stigma society still has with abuse, especially towards abused men. That this is all very real and people need to show compassion, be supportive and react non-judgmentally to it. It takes strength and courage to reveal such deep pain, and if somebody confides in you…that means you are a special person to them in their lives and therefore, it’s essential to return the same respect and lend your ear – that is the very least you can do.
I agree with typhon regarding your mom and aunt. They are not feminists! They are abusers and misandrists using feminism to manipulate and justify their actions. There is never any justification for abuse!
It was bold of you to defend yourself against your mom, knocking her one…and that ended the physical abuse for once and for all. When I suffered abuse from my mother and had I been bigger than her, I would have defended myself and showed her…but she also used a weapon relentlessly – a wooden broomstick. My brothers and father were of course much bigger than me, but they were useless cowards who turned a blind eye to the years of abuse I endured from my mother. I swore I must have been adopted! And would imagine Superman or someone coming to sweep me away and rescue me from all of this shit. i think people like my mother and abusers often have underlying mental illness or personality disorders. My counselor thinks my mom is very ill and another past counselor stated that my mother had “abandoned” me because of the physical assaults and neglect. People say, the best revenge is to live well…so I hope each one of us strives for that!
I don’t actually like Feminist and MRA labels. It’s almost like you have to choose which team you’re on. And when someone is abused by the opposite sex, they go to bat against them…this is all wrong. I was abused at the hands of another woman…which team should I be on? Am I supposed to hate women…or hate men, because my family respects male gender? I say neither! I believe in human rights for ALL and equal opportunities and I do believe in BALANCING THE SCALES (if this makes me a feminist then be it.) When I see abuse, I will call what it is…I don’t see gender and so on.
Some say feminism has male blame strain (although this has more to do with Patriarchy, which men inherited), the same argument can be made for misandry – female blame. i think when one is abused, it’s easy to want to take sides…choose a team we feel supports us, but I think doing this divides the sexes much more; but on the other hand we also ‘need’ to have classification of groups to properly deal with gender issues? I go to bat for human justice…and that has no gender.
I agree, like many movements of social change Feminism has been exploited by people who have no right to call themselves feminists while engaging in abuse of anyone – male or female.
Men, just as much as women require liberation from stereotyping.
Time to stop the blame game and move on towards mutual respect.
Michelle , the problem is they are feminists in every way possible in their own eyes they are and had been involved in shelter groups, womens groups, grass roots politics etc promoting feminist causes and in the sphere of feminist influence in my community they tick all the boxes as such i cant call them anything but feminists , i do emphasise the term radical when describing them but they are feminist.
The bit about your mother is very similar to mine , i have been diagnosed bi polar and in many ways im luckier than a lot of people because through some very stupid acts on my part i ended up with help that many others wouldnt have had in my situation , but through the study and understanding i know my mother had a mental break when my stepfather died and her family wasn’t there and the anger and hurt grieving can cause which left me in a very strange situation, the logical side of me gets why she did it and can make peace with it , but the emotional side of me hates her with a passion as she has impacted me, I wont deny when I wrote this I did it very quickly in many ways because I was scared that if I didn’t get it out I wouldn’t and I left out chunks that i now see would have fitted in , the fact that my mothers constant hate for my birth father and hatred for me because she saw him in me has cost me relationships because I don’t want to be a dad , the spectre of history is just too great, but on the flip side i have found myself fighting for dads and even when a friends partner left her with her kid she still kept him in the loop and he benefits from that greatly , so for me its a case of taking the bad and if i can help 1 person , just one then i will see a worth in what has happened .
My view on feminism is tainted and that wont change , but its the ideology I dont like i see so many good women who wear the tag , who live and love and are good people , but to me they are libertarian , I can quote feminist scripture with the best but I am tired of it I think that the MRA is needed as a balancing voice and give and take needs to happen on both sides but I do chuckle when people call me a woman hater/misogynist/ unable to get laid ( I lived in California for several years, when you are 6’2 long haired and with a Scottish accent company is something that had i wanted it never would have been difficult to get ) I love all people and always will.
Your story is tragic but a very interesting read. You have my solidarity.
Abusers abuse regardless of whether they are feminists or MRAs or Republicans or Democrats, male or female. You were raised in a home filled with sociopaths and you have suffered at the hands of them. If your story reversed, a woman abused by male relatives, abandoned and abused by a father, would it make sense to blame all MRA? No, but triggered feelings don’t have to make sense.
If you were abused by fathers and uncles would you blame all men? Fear all men? You might.
This is where I wind up wanting to throw all the ideology into a garbage bag. Human beings are all capable of being monstrous and cruel and ideologies which start out pure can often twist up and mirror the pain they set out to heal.
At my age, having both father and mother issues, having watched poles develop, I see no sense in any of it.
Human beings abuse because they are sick, not because they are men or women. Because they are abusers.
I’m so terribly sorry for the treatment you’ve had to endure. I hope you are surrounded by supportive people who can show you love and help you regain trust on a one by one basis.
Peace.
“You were raised in a home filled with sociopaths and you have suffered at the hands of them. If your story reversed, a woman abused by male relatives, abandoned and abused by a father, would it make sense to blame all MRA? ”
I think the better analogy is if a person was raised by an MRA who used the (hmm, it’s hard to call the MRM an ideology outside of ‘men can be victims too’) label to justify abuse. Not if it was just a man abusing.
In any regard, family of origin dysfunction can layer onto (under?) ideologies, though one could also see combinations of abuse and non-feminism etc. What I’m moved by and appalled by is that humans wound each other so very much. That’s what I”d like to stop, and if I have to be considered a Julieist in order to be a strong ally to healing.
“If your story reversed, a woman abused by male relatives, abandoned and abused by a father, would it make sense to blame all MRA”
Have you asked yourself why you need to reverse this situation Lisa?
Let me help you by reversing it yet again.
A woman posts an article where she relates being raped by an uncle.
A male counter-poster writes:
Well females can and do rape almost as often, why do you need to post about men raping?
Now is this a proper response,or perhaps the person telling the story should be left in the safe place to share?
“Thanks for sharing”
Would suffice.
Ya know what?
Feminism is NOT guilt free.
In this case it actively justified in the female abusers mind her actions,that is the point of this story,like it or not.
Freebird, the reason I was pointing out reversing the situation has nothing to do with whether one gender abuses more than another. I’m pretty clear that both genders are quite capable of doing great damage to their opposite gender or to the same gender.
I’m pointing out that it’s about socipathic behavior no matter the gender and that the abuse is intolerable, horrible and should be stopped. That feminism was a tool used by sociopaths to justify their behavior. Sociopaths could use any ideology if they felt it would be useful in damaging their prey.
I’m angered by the treatment he received and appalled that human beings can do this to each other. I don’t want any child to be abused. I want very much for him to be surrounded by loving people who can help provide him with the beginnings of trust and support and peace.
Thanks for your reply Julie.
The difference here being that feminism has enacted laws and policies that could and would re-victimize this male for being male in regards to his Aunt raping him,his mother accusing him of rape equals the direct threat of color of law being used to prosecute him simply by virtue of his sex.
There is no other ideology ensconced in law in such a manner.
And I don’t think any human being abused, should have to go through what he went through. So we aren’t in much disagreement. I have made statements on this in the past. I think abusers need to be prosecuted and also given options for therapy. Victims of abuse need to have policies and opportunities given to them for justice and for healing.
Victims of abuse need to have policies and opportunities given to them for justice and for healing.
True, but those standing in the way are feminists.
I have never touched drugs, never will , I lost a friend to heroin, the wrist slashes didnt happen till i was in my 20′s and tried in a spectacularly messy way to end it ( had my flatmates date not been a bust I wouldnt be here now ).
Im curious Leia why are you asking me who else I have hit in my life ?
She is implying that if you were violent with your mother — despite the fact that you were reacting to abuse — you must be serially violent against women. I am surprised that her comment hasn’t been moderated, because this is clearly an attack against your character, which is supposed to be against the rules here…
We are not on the boards 24/7, Collin. I’m just now catching up.
Colin I kinda guessed that , same with the track lines comment , ive only hit one other person in my life a man and its a totally different story and the one i feel bad about simply because he had been falsely accused of the crime i went at him for and i was the one who had to go to the police and tell them he was innocent , fists and fighting are not something I like to go to …….. but people like her are the reason i usually stick to MRA spaces to talk .
I think it is because she has her own story to tell.
At any rate thanks very much for putting that story down on paper. That was pretty amazing.
I’m curious about the sleeves, but not to paint you as an abuser because quite frankly…Leia overstepped the line by taking a “The Hulk” style overpowered leap of many km. If you don’t want to talk about it, that’s fine. I have a scar on the top of my hand from “cutting” just to feel a different pain, and this cut went pretty deep, I didn’t hide it though and people thought I was crazy (I chose the area because the skin as taught actually). It’s a good reminder of how far I have come, and I hope your scars too can be similar it letting you see how far you’ve come.
I’m very sorry for what you went through and your experience is immensely powerful, thank-you for telling us.
Leia, you seriously need to check your behaviour and either clarify what you are asking or just keep quiet if you want to attack someone for opening up. The only thing he identified was self-defense against abuse and no one can fault him for it because there is no fault.
God love ‘ya Scott! There are a lot of us who have been through the kind of personal hell you described. More than dare speak up.
Thank you for speaking plainly about what you went through. Thank you for caring about what happens to men and boys. And thank you for working to help others.
By the by, is your biological Dad still living and, if so, do you stay in touch? Hang in there.
no , the ironic thing is my mother wasnt wrong in what she said about him , when i was 16 his dad died of cancer , i had to be there and he wouldnt come , wouldnt be part of it , he has his life , i have mine ive made my peace with that .
Scott, thank you for writing this. I know how hard these stories are to write. We need to hear them. With any luck they will help other Men come forward, too, and if nothing else, let go of some of the pain.
Brian there is always a risk with it and i really , really thought long and hard before i did , but the changes here have been so positive that i felt the risk was worth it , we are now for the most part ( the above poster questioning my own history aside ) pulling in the same direction , part of what took me into what i do for a living is empathy , as strange as it is to use this term , im lucky enough to understand what the men i speak to when they are at there lowest , when they have been unable to get someone to listen , i know how important it is and how important everyone who wants to see change is, in many ways its been a negative in my life but i can use it to cause a positive in others lives,
Your post really touched me; thank you for sharing. I’m so sorry feminism came to equate with hatred and abuse for you. I respect your journey to come to terms with what happened to you, and in light of your history, I understand why you would define yourself as an MRA. I hope someday you find a fulfilling relationship with someone where it isn’t about any one “side” being better, worse or more/less priviledged… but about two equals acting as a team to share life’s journey. You deserve that kind of lifelong love and support.
Scott, what is an MRA and MRM?
thank you for your courage: telling your story is the first and most powerful step to recognizing the truth of the abuse you suffered.
however, at the age of 64 i am at last getting past my storyline and into the lessons and emotions that the history created and that now underlie the story. I am seeing at last the template, the filter, the worldview that i created thru the constant unconscious deprecatory behaviors of my parents toward me. i am also recognizing that constantly repeated small sins of omission can be even worse than grotesque sins of commission because they are more insidious and so more difficult to point to as examples of abuse.
i say the latter because for so many years i could not grasp my therapist’s pointing out that even without physical abuse, i HAD BEEN abused by my parents’ inconsistency, lack of attention, and lack of care on a day to day basis. I thought i was making a big deal out of nothing. the gift to me now is that i am recognizing the long-lasting effects of those sins of omission on how i see everything and how i perceive the world as untrustworthy and
unreal.
brother, as boys we suffer in silence and ignorance; then as men we
have to learn to reclaim our voices to acknowledge the old pain and let out the tears that we never were allowed to shed in those dark times.
thank you for your courage: may it continue to fuel your explorations into the most important unknown territories there are.
z
Ohh Ziggy you have just given me a massive can of worms , the MRM ( mens rights movement ) or MRA ( mens rights activists ) are by the definition of the men I know a group of men who have witnessed the changes in society since the 60′s and beyond and whilst this has been beneficial in many ways its also seen the pendulum swing too far in the other direction with regards to things like family law, domestic violence and the like ,
Its a difficult one as there are a lot of misconceptions and i wont get into arguing on it , but as a group they are the ones who when i first started to open up about my life accepted me, believed me and made me realise i wasn’t alone, they also introduced me to some amazing writing, like erin pizzeys works , warren farrell etc and I would say ( and its my view and im not saying it to get into conflict with any feminist here ) they are a counterbalance to the more extreme aspects of modern feminism ,
Scott, your story is …. well … words defy me.
The calm and clear way you write of such events is impressive.
But I have to say it was something else that impressed me more, “…and is constantly fighting to remove gender from the terms victim and abuser .”
Give what you have endured, that is beyond impressive. P^)
its because of that , i cringe when i see every time men are discussed that there has to be a “women have it worse” comment thrown in , I dont care who the person suffering is , all i care about is the fact they are suffering I was reading the daily mail site yesterday when they were talking about Ian Mcnichol and the fact the woman who tortured him got 7 years and i saw this .
“I feel sorry for the guy, but as currently two women are murdered by their male partners in the UK EVERY WEEK, I’m far more outraged for female victims of domestic violence. Yes there are a few nutty women around who attack men – but lets not kid ourselves here, domestic violence is overwhelmingly a male crime against women. If women murdered men in the same numbers that men murder women, all women would be living under a curfew! Let’s get our priorities right here, too many women are dying for this issue to be hijacked by the tiny number of men who are victims.”
We seem to be in a place in the world where we can dismiss suffering and not care because others suffer scares the hell out of me , the fact that people can think like this shows a horrible side to human nature , compassion seems to be now dependant on gender instead of simply being in need of it and that is horrific and its something that needs to change.
Scott – so much needs to change! **Sigh**!
I have to say it is possible – it takes time and imagination.
I cut my teeth on change in Glasgow so long ago. I was lucky. It was one of the best places to make change happen. I remember the changing of the address of the South African Consulate from St George’s Place to Nelson Mandela Place. It sent both a message and galvanised people. A little canny charm and action can be a big influence – and funny too! Everyone smiled when they walked through Nelson Mandela’s Place in the very heart of Glasgow! No other UK City supported anti-apartheid more.
I was on the streets dealing with HIV from day one, as out reach, with the rent boys on Buchanan Street and other places – we got hell from the police and then they were educated, but only after me and others had been arrested for apparently soliciting. The police became great allies. The lesbian and UK gay policing initiatives were born… and all from the heart of Glasgow.
I remember the foundations for legal challenges being laid, both against Maggie T and the Poll Tax – and just how she breached the Act Of Union – High Treason indeed….. and also for equality in all areas for gay rights. I wondered if I would ever see a gay coupled married in my life time – and yet on 19 Dec 2005, I was at City Hall Belfast to see it happen for the first time – and all down to little known foundations laid in Glasgow decades before. No other city or people were willing to do it, but Glasgow did! It was terrible that Glasgow was robbed of the occasion – I was “Scunnered” – but I was there and people did raise a glass and sing to Glasgow – and the praising of Your name.
I remember when Glasgow kicked the backside of Europe and became culture capital – and shocked everyone. That was funny. I remember a conference in 1990 with Pat Lally then mayor being asked how the hell Glasgow pulled it off – he just said we did! He was bombarded with questions ” how did you make them do this” – “How did you make then do that” – “how did you get this from them” and then suddenly Pat said “I’ve got it!” – the room went silent and every one looked at him – he said “When you have a problem you say what are you going to do about it – here in Glasgow we say what are “WE” going to do about it”. He was right too!
I remember that blooming garden festival too – and sitting in the Saracens Head and listening to the late, great John Martyn as every supposed pop start and music guru turned up to hear a master singing for the shear hell of it and – Mayfest blowing away that little festival in Edinburgh – how the only time the Bolshoi Opera have ever performed outside of Moscow it was guess where … and so many other amazing things that people said could not happen – were impossible – and they just did happen! That spirit of the wally close and the steamy – it could do so much.
I’ve seen Glasgow and Glaswegians do so much – and it has always been WE. I’ve seen so much change come from Glasgow – after all “Glasgow’s Miles Better” – by the preaching of Your word, and the praising of Your name. I was not surprised when Glaswegian Muslims marched – saying not in out name – and everyone else agreed and supported. Only in Glasgow.
I have always found it odd that Glasgow has been so famous for all the wrong reasons, including deep fried mars bars, and yet the “We” and the power of “We” has been missed so often. Thank heaves for Glasgow and that power of “We” – and I’m so glad that so many times Glasgow is the place where “We” have been able to make it happen!
It may take some time – but never forget that Glasgow’s greatest strength is “We” and how it has changed the world! Glasgow wasn’t know globally as the second city without reason!
Ache – it has always been “First”, in so many ways! P^)
I see plenty of comments like that, they’re made to try refocus the horror back onto women’s suffering. What’s sad is that I see insults of “whatabouthemenz” but most of those comments the men make are simply trying to get people to see men are hurt AS well, whereas the “womengetitworse” comments are trying to control the focus completely.
It really feels like quite a few people in society just cannot handle the fact men can suffer and they want to keep a narrow field of view of abuse being gendered, it pisses me off bigtime because I want people to drop that genderized shit and start treating both abuser and the abused, giving the support they need, regardless of gender, race, or creed! Abusive men or women should be in programs for anger management, etc, and the appropriate prison term and men and women who were abused should be receiving treatment. I think the abusers who have been abused themselves need support too, ways to deal with their past abuse but also their abusive ways. Punishment is needed but rehabilitation is needed too, but if we keep on with this treating 1 gender as victim and the other as the perpetrator than we aren’t going to stop abuse or lower it that much really.
At the end of the day, the victim is more than a statistic, it doesn’t matter if more men or women on average suffer because that victim suffered and needs all the help we can give them.
Your friend’s mom sounds awesome. To take in a stranger for three years and her just a single mom too. I imagine a lot of people were telling her she was mad to let a six foot tall strange man into her house and her all “alone”, even for a single night.
she is for all intents and purposes my mother , it was during that time the bi polar started to become an issue so it wasnt easy s, but she stuck with me, I could have gone the way of hating women , of despising them for what happened to me but she stopped me , she saved me in a lot of ways.
It’s amazing that even through traumatic experiences we can find someone to stop us hating an entire group. I hope everyone can meet that person/s who can stop their hate in it’s tracks.
Of course, there are women who abuse men just as there are people of color who abuse whites, but that does not negate the fact that we still live in a male-dominated and white-dominated society.
I cringed when you said, “He was the head of the family, but as he told me, it was never about my mother, or my sister, or even me being less than him; it was about him loving us and wanting us to be happy, to have the best in life.”
Any man who says he is the head of the family believes in patriarchy. If he really loved you all and wanted you all to have the best in life, he would have renounced male privilege.
This website is getting more and more anti-woman.
Marie wrote:
“Any man who says he is the head of the family believes in patriarchy. If he really loved you all and wanted you all to have the best in life, he would have renounced male privilege.
This website is getting more and more anti-woman.”
oh, Marie, how do you translate the description of an admittedly “old school man” into “anti-woman”?
“He came from Stranrar on the coast between Scotland and Ireland and grew up on a farm. He was very old school in his ways… And he worked like a dog to try and give us this.”
if you try hard enough, you can always find the most negative aspects of anyone, but i read this as a description of a man who grew up in a different world and apparently did his best to be the hard-working, family-supporting man he was taught to be. Maybe not the man we think of today as the ideal man who gives up “male privilege” — working like a dog his entire life is “male privilege?” — but still one who did the best he could in the world in which he lived.
I didn’t read any description of him being brutal, cold, harsh or even a drunk, just a man who did the only thing he knew: worked like a dog for his family. Not the life i would want for anyone, but he stayed and took care of them, which is a a hell of a lot more than many of the men i have read about here. that was a different kind of courage than we know about today, one not of making money per se, but of caring and doing.
Ahhhh, there it is. I was waiting for one of your kind to start bawling.
“B-b-but what about the wimminz?”
Check your privilege, feminist.
This is the Man whos influence stopped me going to far when i could to stop my abuser hurting me ,, this is a man who went without to make sure that we had meals , who worked 7 days a week yet still had time at night to hand build a wooden fort for my toys and to teach me how to work with my hands, this is a man who was loved so much even my abuser sufferd at his passing , this is a man who because of his teachings i still if out with a woman will walk on the outside of a street closest to the road , I still will give up my seat on a bus or a train to ( and i modified this one ) the elderly, heavily pregnant or infirm.
There was nothing bad about him, in fact the only bad thing i can recall is in his diary from childhood when he was caught stealing eggs and spanked with the eggs still in his back pocket,
The man had no privelage ,, he had responsibility , commitment and love and if i ever manage to become half of a man that he was id be proud .
Dude, don’t give her the satisfaction. She isn’t here to listen to you.
Neither you or your dad have anything to justify here.
I agree, your dad sounds great.
Just because people have privilege does not make them evil and abusive.
“Any man who says he is the head of the family believes in patriarchy. If he really loved you all and wanted you all to have the best in life, he would have renounced male privilege.”
The author wrote that he was head of the family Marie.You are asking to silence him.
Just what should have his stepfather done to “renounce his patriarchy?”
It’s kinda obvious the man did not have the power to stop his wife’s abuse of his step son.
So just what kinda power did he have to renounce?
Please explain what sacrifice would be great enough to slate your thirst?
Marie,
From the description I get of his life, this man was the head of his family in the way that a horse is the ‘head’ of the cart.
If you define ‘head’ by ‘sacrifice’ then saying he’s the head means nothing more then he is the one who sacrifices most of himself for his family. On the one hand I don’t think this is necessarily healthy or appropriate and it certainly puts a huge burden on men, but on the other I don’t see it as evidence that men in ye olden days wanted to oppress their female relatives whilst cackling evilly and twirling their moustaches.
This is another thing I dislike about feminism. The requirement to presume the absolute worst of men and their motivations.
and one thing i have to say after rereading maries comment , he did love me , he loved all of us.
Marie says:
“This website is getting more and more anti-woman.”
No, it’s getting pro-man. If that worries you, maybe you should look inward as to see why?
Marie says,
“Of course, there are women who abuse men just as there are people of color who abuse whites, but that does not negate the fact that we still live in a male-dominated and white-dominated society.”
Actually, if you’re going to make a white/black analogy to the genders it is men who would be in the black role, not women.
When we take the metrics that show black disempowerment and turn them to gender we find:
Men are 95% of on-the-job deaths
Men are 38% of college graduates
Men are 90% of the homeless
Men are 80% of all suicides
Men are 80% the targets of violence
Men are 90% of incarcerated (studies show the anti-male sentencing disparity is about equal to the anti-black sentencing disparity)
Men live 7 years less
Men suffer cancers at twice the rate of women (for cancers affecting gender-neutral systems)
Feminists prefer pointing out the 1% of the elites that are all men (who are superlative examples of the male provider role) but LOVE LOVE LOVE ignoring the dozens of millions of men who are much more disenfranchised and oppressed than nearly any woman.
Feminists never point out (and refuse to listen when it is pointed out) that the male role of provider is a much more lopsided crap-shoot than the beauty role for women. Millions of unheard, unsympathized, oppressed men who are the “wash outs” of the male role sink to much lower depths than the washouts at the female role.
Note that Marie equates being critical of feminism or female child abusers as “anti-woman.”
Trust me padre, I noticed. The zealot fundamentalist feminists that used to post here particularly in March to May of last year has been thinning a ton over the past few months as tgmp has found it’s legs and embraced telling men’s stories, without it having to adhere to a feminists narrative.
Even though much fewer of the fundamentalist feminists are posting here, they are still CLEARLY irked with sharing a tiny spotlight of the victim stage with men.
While the ones that make long diatribes and use semi-logic and rebut back and forth have dropped off, there are still those that seem to want us to know about their dissatisfaction, but don’t bother arguing.
I see it as somebody in the crowd throwing tomatoes at a parade she/he doesn’t like, and disappearing into the crowd.
They are full of snark and fury (and certitude of their correctness facts be damned), but overall are very inefectual. Even from the standpoint of spreading their religion they just make feminists look silly, so it’s a fail on all counts.
Thanks for sharing Scott.
You are correct in seeing that feminism excuses abuse against boys,it is clear the feminists here dislike hearing any tale of a woman committing abuse,yet it happens so often.
My mother used to whip me with an electrical cord, it raised up big welts so she could verify that it was causing enough pain
(boys don’t feel pain)
At 12 years old I finally hit her back and sobbed the whole time she was unconscious.
After that her abuse was mostly verbal.
Today she identifies as a feminist,and spouts all the tired lies.
It’s an excuse system for brutalizing men by hand and in the courts.
There is no excuse for those hiding behind an ideology of hate
“At 12 years old I finally hit her back and sobbed the whole time she was unconscious.”
I wished that I had you as a brother…I’m sure you would have socked my mother one too. My 6 brothers and father went about their business as though nothing was happening the whole 7 years that I got beatings from my mother, from age of 11 on. I got cornered and whipped with a wooden broomstick and chased around the house, even when I hid underneath my bed – she unlocked my bedroom door and striked at me there, with the broomstick; other times I hid in the closet and attic. Other weapons included durable tree branches that flexed like a whip and she would beat me like a dusty old carpet. I remember beating hit with a men’s shoe and also a metal coat-hanger fashioned by her into a whip.
“Today she identifies as a feminist,and spouts all the tired lies.
It’s an excuse system for brutalizing men by hand and in the courts.
There is no excuse for those hiding behind an ideology of hate”
My mother would be the type of woman who’d support MRAs…she loves patriarchy…but ironically, she’s the matriarch of the house…that’s why she’s unstoppable. If you had lived in my house, I would be the domestic slave to clean up after you, wash your dishes, do your laundry and if they bathroom tub was grimy from your dirt – my mother would be screaming at me to clean it up…or she’ll be coming with the broomstick to make sure the job gets done by your lowly slave sister/wretch/whore.
As a male, living in my parents’ house, you would not have to lift a finger to clean anything…it magically gets done, by personal maid service, if you’re lucky to have a sister. Laundry loads also gets magically washed, I would be at your service. Dishes had to be washed right away, my mother was a drill sargeant, there was no slacking off right after a meals are finished…if I weren’t there doing the dishes or skip doing them because I was retaliating, there was punishment for that too…broomstick beatings and cussing.
You and men would be treated like princes and kings in my parents’ household. Is that your perfect ideology for men or MRAs? Or does all of that sound a tad extreme, much in the same way you liken feminism to “ideology of hate”?
well no , its far from my perfect ideology , if we must go down this road let me clarify , I could assist in making meals when i was 6 years old I pretty much cooked for myself always after 10 , my stepdad, yanno the evil patriarchal one who according to some on this thread didnt love me because he wasnt a feminist taught me how to iron ( he wouldnt even let my mother do his ironing , he liked things done in a specific way and did them himself ) , you have rushed in your attempt to the whole woman good, man bad plan that you skipped the whole point of him and what he brought to me and why even after all of what happened i dont hate all feminists , i just have a deep dislike of the ideology . I can sew, i can cook, i am a neurotic cleaner I have every skill i need to survive on my own something he taught me was that as a man i had to be able to do everything myself , he was brought up by his dad in the 30s after his mothers death at the start of the war so had to make do and mend, you have grasped at the idea that for me and all MRA that its a power play , its not , I have the ability in me to care, to nurture , to be loving and to be violent, to be a good loving parent and to be a crappy one , all I want is a world where im respected for the good instead of fear of the potential bad and I dont belive it will happen as long as feminism exists in its modern form .
Scott, I can’t emphasize this enough: your mother is not a feminist. She’s mentally ill if anything, like my own mother; they are not rational, humane beings…they are sick first and foremost.
I have to admit how I am finding your attempts at generalising the MRA ( MRA= Patriachy ) yet you are trying to narrow the definition of feminism to exclude those that arent exactly poster children for it , my mother is a feminist , she is as indoctrinated in the Marxist ideology that rad feminisim sprung from ( for more examples of the marxist feminist aspects id suggest erin pizzeys great book prone to violence ) , I never denied , if fact as i stated my mother was ill but its ironic when i read what you are saying, I actually know what it feels like to be hit with the scum manifesto , to be told im tantamount to a rapist because im a man , to be told that to “balance the scales in the workplace men have to be discriminated against” , these ideas come from feminisim, people may take them and run with them to a conclusion but it happens .
I may get some heat for my next statement but i cant think of any other way to word it , feminism needs to own its sh1t, as an ideology it is so intent on dismissing or ignoring anything negative it does it causes itself more harm than good and thats why the backlash against it is more and more commonplace.
I live in glasgow, in one of the few countries in the west without any islamic issues, and there is a reason why this is the case and its something feminism could learn from. I was at Glasgow Airport during the attack and the aftermath when several radical islamics tried to blow it up and i was in glasgow a week later when the scottish islamic groups marched in an “not in our name” demonstration to distance themselves from the terrorists , to put life before doctrine, when they showed people that there was a difference between radical ideology and moderate instead of simply demanding they accept the fact people warmed to it , this wouldnt hurt feminism either.
Your mother was behaving like a matriarch, much like my mother: again your mother is not a feminist; to call your mother a feminist would be just as dishonest and disgraceful as calling my mother a MRA. I purposefully categorize my mother as both supporting MRA and patriarchy, to make you think…and yep, reaction from typhoon and from you. But don’t you see??? You’re blaming your mom on feminism…conversely that would be identical to calling my mother an MRA…absurd, right? Sexist abuse stems from the belief of the systems of patriarchy and/or matriarchy; they are not identical to MRM or feminism respectively. We need to get this sorted out in our minds.
Blaming your mother on feminism is categorically incorrect. After your father died, what you experienced was matriarchy…rare. And what I experienced was also primarily matriarchy but secondarily was patriarchy (although her hate toward females could be argued and supported as primary patriarchy and matriarchy may/may not support that).
Both systems are sexist…matriarchy and patriarchy: one gender is usually favored over the other. Feminism and MRM deal with movements and rights, I don’t think each one is out to oppress the other…so long as we don’t count the mentally ill/abusers who should be in their own category.
my mother openly identified as a feminist , read the scriptuires and went to the groups, was politically active in that way , she was in every way a feminist and its something ………… well ill be honest i was brought up with it and saw it ,, to use someone elses mother whop was nuts by the sounds of it and to label her an MRA with no actual link to the movement just to create a counterpoint and an excuse to remove the feminist like is at the very least distastefull.
Unlike boys who get growth spurts and have crazy testosterone in their teens, I did not have that benefit and was not able to defend myself or hit my mother back with the ease some of you have done at 11 or 12, or 15. I didn’t even think of calling the police…because my mother conditioned me to take the beatings; made me feel that all the beatings was just deserved, punishment for not obeying her/doing my chores (brothers had NO chores) or talking back/refusing her demands – standing up to myself didn’t work, she was my slavemaster – she gave birth to me, I was her property…do as she please. I was worthless in her eyes.
And because no one else came to my defense, it made her actions acceptable – I supposed even to me because I didn’t do anything or tell anyone until I was 18 years old. I was always looking for her approval, doing my best to clean the house and take care of my chores…but nothing was ever good enough in her eyes. My brothers could fart and cuss, and give me bloody noses, and get away with that, they had mutual respect with my parents – because of their gender.
What you describe is abuse, however I would put it to you that your brothers also suffered abuse.
In my family it looked like my sister took the brunt of my mother’s anger, but that was because she became the “problem child” and acted out. (However it was in no way my sister’s fault that she took this role). I became the “over-achiever”, and spent my time doing school work, and actively praying for god to take me into his service and let me die. The abuse has surfaced in later life with some pretty spectacular addictions. Also I am now an atheist, as god is not real, and prayer has no effect. I am healing on my own.
Your brother’s may have appeared to suffer less abuse for reasons other than gender.
“My mother would be the type of woman who’d support MRAs…she loves patriarchy”
Wow. That’s quite the assumption there Michelle.
I suport men’s rights and I don’t support patriarchy.
“but ironically, she’s the matriarch of the house…that’s why she’s unstoppable”
Sounds like she has more of that traditional female attitude. ‘You can be the head of the household as long as you’re sacrificing for my benefit.’
“Or does all of that sound a tad extreme, much in the same way you liken feminism to “ideology of hate”?”
Feminism is hateful when it blames men, when it justifies the problems men face as ‘payback’ or ‘their own fault’ or dismisses them as whining.
BTW, how do you know your father and brothers weren’t scared of your mother?
“BTW, how do you know your father and brothers weren’t scared of your mother?”
Exactly,
My grandfather (on my mother’s side) was a medic in WWII. He got 2 silver stars for getting guys out under heavy fire.
He was abused by my grandmother. She even once pushed him down a flight of stairs. The problem is that people keep trying to use their narratives to shut down other people’s pain, or say why the other gender has it better.
That’s why I called my 6 brothers and father “useless cowards” in my initial post. Does that answer that question? And because they didn’t intervene that furthermore made my mother “unstoppable” …continued beating me for 7 years. Not just beatings, but she was manipulative, narcissistic, vulgar and acted like she was omni-potent. She would belittle my father, talk down to him…because she conditioned him for all of that (she was also the oldest in her own family and so had experience bossing people around). But she never behaved this way to her sons…because she knows of their physical strength and in her mind believed that they are the ones to carry on the family name/honor and bring future, financial success/honor to the family (maybe take care of parents) – girls aren’t capable of that!
So why do you blame patriarchy, since it sounds like your mother ruled with an iron fist?
You blame your male family members for not rescuing you, but not your mother for abusing you?
If anything it sounds like you should break away from feminist thought on patriarchy.
Maybe if your father had DV help for abusive and controlling spouses like women had, things could have been improved.
It just seems like your take-away from your experiences are just whatever-the-hell you want them to be and by embracing patriarchy theory you’re taking you’re square-peg experiences and jamming them into a round hole patriarchy theory.
In point of fact, zealot patriarchy theory IPV (inter-personal violence) advocates are causing just as much harm (or more) to other families as yours had.
The famous researchers Gelles and Strauss who found 1 woman was abused every 15.5 seconds (which is in many DV organizations pamphlets) are now BANNED from VAWA reauthorization hearings and other IPV conferences because their ground-breaking research also showed 1 man is abused every 16 seconds by a woman.
These researchers (gelles and strauss) are now concentrating on trying to get gender-neutral solutions in place, and these feminists IPV fanatics don’t want to split their funding pie with male victims resources.
Erin Prizzey started the first battered woman’s shelter in England. She publicly stated that women were as abusive as men and she was going to open her shelter to abused men.
For this radical feminists made bomb threats, and threatened her family with violence. They essentially hijacked her own movement from her and made it into a woman-only cottage industry.
Patriarchy theory should not be used as an excuse to turn away ANY victims of violence or abuse. Unfortunately, that is the case today.
John , and everyone else here is a link to Erins book “prone to violence” , it covers everything that happened.
“My 6 brothers and father went about their business as though nothing was happening the whole 7 years that I got beatings from my mother, from age of 11 on. I got cornered and whipped with a wooden broomstick and chased around the house, even when I hid underneath my bed – she unlocked my bedroom door and striked at me there, with the broomstick; other times I hid in the closet and attic. Other weapons included durable tree branches that flexed like a whip and she would beat me like a dusty old carpet. I remember beating hit with a men’s shoe and also a metal coat-hanger fashioned by her into a whip. ”
Thanks for the very descriptive reply Michelle.I’m sorry it went down like that you.
Yes, If I had been your brother and there at the time I surely would have been your defender.
What we both have in common is that there was one else willing to step right into the mess that had been ‘normalized.”
So I give you hug and we retreat to our respective corners for a much needed break,yes?
Thanks again Scott, it took a lot a bravery to post your personal experience.
I do wish there had been no apologists for your abusers!
But that goes to show you did post it in the right place to plant a seed in the young male readers mind as what to expect from women.
John D wrote:
“Men are 38% of college graduates”
Yes, and this is an important new statistic, as reported in The Berkeley Blog:
http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2011/05/26/women-graduating/
and The New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/29/business/young-women-go-back-to-school-instead-of-work.html
Google “more women graduate than men” or some equivalent and there is a large number of articles on this and related subjects.
I’m glad to see that you did find a loving mother figure after you were treated so horribly by your first one.
Am I the only one that’s noticed how some people will come out of the woodwork and Flip The Fuck Out whenever someone brings up a person that ID’s as feminist while doing something bad? Its like all of a sudden they don’t count as feminist or something…
As scott says, feminism just won’t own its own sh*t. Mainstream feminists just can’t or won’t condemn the haters and fabricators by name and drum them out of the movement.
Each person, even a feminist, is responsible for the evil she could have prevented.
Actually JustAMan I’m willing to not try to hold the entire movement of feminism responsible for the actions of the bad ones.
HOWEVER at the same time I would like to see that same consideration extended to other groups. But that doesn’t happen. On one hand we are told to give feminists a fair shake and not consider all their work poison rather than just condeming the entire movement over the bad stuff of some of the folks at (feminist blog) but then in the next breath we are supposed to condemn all MRAs as misogynistic woman beaters and rapists just because some of the folks at (MRA blog) fit that bill?
In all fairness I must add at 16 years of age I had to defend myself against my father.
(not the last time either)
I had him on the floor and beat him about the head and face.That slowed him up for awhile,too.
The difference being in one altercation the law would side with me,and in the other it would side with my mother.
Now,I’m 48 years old and none of the personalities nor approach from the law has changed.
I’ve been threatened with a false DV accusation from mother as recently as last year.
Thanks again Scott.
It took a lotta guts to post this,and I do hope it brings some healing to you my friend.
Even on a thread directly involving other male victims I’m posting stuff that vanishes into the ether. This is why I still wont trust this place.
Moderator Note: We have no idea why your posts are going into spam, but they are. We can only monitor what comes in and make changes as we see problems. Thank you for your email.
And the same happens again. Strangely I had no problems posting on a sport related thread over the month in question. Anything gender related may as well never have happened.
Moderator’s note-please feel free, if you want, to email a copy of anything you see not going through.