On Women and Casual Sex – Part II: Flings, One Night Stands and Same Night Lays

Guys, you’re doing it wrong: some women DO like casual sex

So last time we talked about one of the eternal questions: why aren’t women more receptive to casual sex? The common answer is that women approach sex differently than men do—whether it’s treating sex as a way of getting a relationship,  leveraging their “superior” social status in order to screen out less-desirable males or just guarding their finite, precious eggs for someone with superior genes rather than the usual pigs that approach her.

As it turns out though, according to sociological studies, the real answer is “well… it’s complicated”.

A whole host of issues influence how receptive individual women are to casual sex: societal messages regarding female sexuality and gender roles, potential physical safety and—perhaps most importantly—whether or not the man in question is going to be worth getting in the sack. After all, a number of women—nearly half—report having negative feelings the morning after a one-night stand; they said they felt “used” or worried for their reputation. In other words: the morning after wasn’t worth the night before.

And yet women do want sexual pleasure without pesky relationship strings, just as men do.

In an ideal world, this would not be as much of an issue; women would be lauded and encouraged to take ownership of their sexuality just as men are, comprehensive sex education would begin early, contraception would be cheap and plentiful, and rape culture would not exist. In such an environment, men and women both would be free to explore and express their sexuality without fear of shame or judgement.

Unfortunately, that’s not the world we live in, and so we must adapt.

For men who are interested in more casual sex, whether it’s a short term fling or taking someone home the same night you meet her, you need to know just how to be worth it – to be someone women feel safe with, that they feel attracted towards, who know how to please a woman in bed and how to stick the landing the morning after so that it’s not a night of regrets for one or both of you.

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Understand the Basics

One of the first keys to finding people who are interested in casual sex is very simple: you need to be comfortable with meeting people.

If you can’t approach a stranger and engage them in a conversation and have them think that you’re a cool person to get to know, you aren’t going to have much luck trying to convince a woman to go home with you; the more awkward the situation, the less likely sloppy make-outs on your couch will be occuring later that evening.

While finding people interested in a fling can be difficult, it’s not exactly a needle in a haystack. After all, the Conley study found that upwards of 40% of women had indeed explored some casual encounters of their own. To a certain extent, meeting people—especially if you’re looking for people interested in having a fling or a one-night stand—is a numbers game. The more people you approach, the more likely you are going to find someone who may be up for what you’re looking for. Most folks aren’t going to advertise that they’re looking for sex after all. This means you need to be able to meet people and learn how to screen for what you’re looking for—more on that in a second.

(…OK, so maybe I’m wrong.)

If you’re interested in an active dating life, you should be approaching more in general, whether or not you’re looking for casual sex or a relationship; in both the Clark-Hatfield study and the Conley study, nearly 50% of women said “yes” to a date with someone who approached them cold.

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Know Where to Go

If you’re looking for casual sex or a same-night lay, you need to go a venue where people are more likely to be looking for the same thing. This means that—unlike in the Clark-Hatfield study, daytime approaches are out. The social rules change between day and nighttime; it’s more socially acceptable to meet people with an eye towards sex in the evening than it is during the day. In addition, you want to be going to places where it’s going to be expected to mingle and meet people and possibly go home with them.

So unless you live in Porno Land, libraries are out. Sorry. No naughty librarians for you.

For all practical purposes, this means that the best places to go are bars and clubs. If you hate bars … well, I’m sorry guys, but the meat-markets are the best place for finding someone who’s up for hooking up that night. The best non-bar and club options are parties—preferably ones that are relatively informal and have around 20-40 people or so. Any more than that and, frankly, you might as well be at a club anyway. Regardless of whether you’re at a club or a kegger, you ideally want a place that has a meat market feel—if people aren’t encouraged to meet and mingle, you’re in the wrong venue. The more room you have to move around and circulate the room, the better; you want to be able to actually approach the people who catch your eye—or even better, give you the come-hither stare.

A word about using online dating sites for trying to find casual sex: it’s generally not going to be worth the energy you’re going to put into it. Most people on dating sites – even more free-wheeling sites like OKCupid or Plenty Of Fish – are going to require at least one audition date before hooking up… and well they should, for safety reasons if nothing else. Even someone explicitly looking for NSA sex isn’t going to be willing to leap into bed with a guy who contacts her on Friday and is angling to meet up that night.

As for Craigslist… well, ya rolls the dice and ya takes ya chances. There will be fewer women advertising in the WfM section of Casual Encounters and they will be deluged in requests. And frankly, not all of them are going to be looking for sex… or even actually be women. A number of people, mostly men (gay and straight) use Craigslist as a way of collecting amateur porn shots; they’ll pretend to be interested in a casual hook-up and post an ad as a way of collecting pics from potential suitors. Others have used Craigslist ads for a BDS&M encounter as a way of naming and shaming people who were actually following proper etiquette for finding a new dom or sub. Still others will be escorts advertising for clients.

So do your due diligence and remember: caveat emptor.

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Make the Right First Impression

Let’s get this out there right off the bat: good looks help you do better when it comes to finding a casual fling. However, it’s more than just facial symmetry or cheek-bones that could slice cheese: it’s about the overall impression that you make. After all, one constant amongst the many studies that affected whether a woman was more interested in going home with a man was how the men were presented: a man who was dressed nicely and took care of himself was far more likely than one who was more schlubby and unkempt. Men who don’t take care of themselves or their looks are going to give the impression that they don’t have much to offer—even if they’re a hunk and a half otherwise.

“Hey ladies, who wants to come back to my windowless van that I parked in a dark alley?”

This means that you need to dress well. You don’t need to be wearing a $3,000 Armani suit, but your clothes should be stylish and—more importantly—fit properly. This is especially important if you’re not in your ideal shape or a model-perfect body type; clothing that fits you properly can help mitigate issues of weight or height. Your hair should be styled and any facial hair you may have should be trimmed and neat. You need to be clean, with trimmed nails, fresh breath and deodorant at a minimum. Keep cologne light—NO AXE!!!

Equally important, however, is your attitude. Almost every woman in the Conley study rated the men that propositioned them as “cold” and potentially unpleasant, while they rated women as being more “warm” and “nurturing”. What does this mean to you? It means that you need to be open, relaxed and above all else friendly. You need to be approaching with a big warm smile on your face, open and confident body language and a warm tone of voice. Your attitude should be the collaborative view of sex—“Hey, here’s this awesome thing we could do and here’s what I bring to the table” rather than the commercial view: “What is it going to cost me to get into your panties?”

Also, you want to be approaching people you would want to talk to even if you weren’t looking for sex. Many men will lower their standards in an attempt to find a casual hook-up—the “any hole is a goal” approach. This is never more evident than at the end of the night when you start to see what I call “limping gazelle” game: guys hovering around the front door of the bar like hyenas around the watering hole, looking for the women who didn’t hook up with someone else for whatever reason or got separated from her friends.

This is a mistake on many levels. At its core, you’re telling the woman that all you’re looking for is some place warm and wet to stick your dick and this is the only reason why you’re talking to her. This is part of the reason why so many women come away from casual one night stands and same-night lays feeling like shit; for all intents and purposes, she just met someone who wanted to use her as a masturbatory tool, not to connect with a person. It’s the mark of an asshole. And yes, I’ve done it and I felt like shit the morning after myself.

More than just being a dick move, however, it’s also a very good way to guarantee yourself mediocre sex. Even when you’re feeling desperate, hooking up with someone you’re not attracted to means that you’ll be going through the motions and trying to reach climax rather than actually enjoying sex. Finding someone you click with, on the other hand, helps make sex much better; you’re not just inserting tab-a into slot-b until you get your rocks off; you’re connecting with someone cool in one of the most intimate ways possible.

Trying to connect with someone rather than just looking for the easiest lay possible also means that you’re going to stand out in a sea of douchebags. Being genuine in your interest to get to know her—and you’re gonna be taking some time, even if the two of you are down for it—will help make you a more attractive option than Studly GoodNight who’s trying to figure out what’s the bare minimum he has to put up with before it’s time to bone.

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Screen for Sexual Interest

Whether you’re at a party or at the local singles bar, the tactics will be more or less the same.

When you’re approaching people in hopes of finding a no-strings hook-up for the night, you want to maximize your efficiency. If what you’re looking for is casual sex exclusively, then you don’t want to spend much time talking to people who aren’t on the same page as you. This means that you’re going to want to be looking for women who are, like you, looking for sexyou need to screen the people you’re talking to.

In practice, this means that you’re going to want to be overtly sexual in talking to women who you’re interested in. Your teasing and banter should have a sexual edge to itcalling her naughty, framing her as a sexual predator, implying that she’s trying to get you drunk to take advantage of you or that you know that girls like her have only one thing on their minds. You will want to ask qualifying questions regarding sex and that have a sexual edge to them: “What are you passionate about?” is a good one, as is “What really drives you wild?”

You can even have little role-playing games, making little jokes about why the two of you would never work outthe sex would be great, but you’d never get along and you’d fight all of the time and play out the “fights”.

You will find lots of people who will not respond to being overtly sexual or won’t find this entertaining or attractive. That’s fine: these are not the people who are down for what you’re looking for. No harm, no foul. It’s better to politely extract yourself from the interaction and find someone else who is.

By the way, please notice very carefully that I use the word “politely”. Just because you’re being more overt about showing sexual interest does not give you license to be an asshole. You’re trying to be charming and maybe a little edgy, not doing a half-rate Quagmire imitation.

Offending people or making them uncomfortable is a one-way trip to creeper-town; if you see that someone you’re talking to is starting to show signs of being uncomfortable, you need to dial it back and apologize.

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Work the Logistics

When you’re looking for a casual hook-up, you want to establish the logistics as early as possible. After all, there’s nothing more frustrating than spending a couple of hours building up that sexual tension until the two of you are ready to explode … only to find out that she lives 45 minutes away, came with her friends, and has to work in the morning.

You want to work in questions about what you can expect as early as possible. The three big questions you need to concern yourself with are:

  1. What are her plans for the evening?
  2. How did she get here?
  3. What’s she doing tomorrow?

Question number one establishes just what you have to work with and how long you have to do itif she’s bar-hopping with friends, you’re going to have to win their approval as well or risk having them cock-block you and drag her away.

Question number two is all about what the transportation situation is. If she’s the designated driver for her friends or gave one of her friends a ride, it’s going to be much hardernot impossible, but damn close—for her to go home with you. Similarly, if she caught a ride with one of her friends, once again you will need to make sure that her friends think you’re a cool guy and would feel safe leaving her with you. Ideally, she came with her own car or caught the bus or the subway; otherwise, you’re going to have another layer of complications to work through.

Question number three is often the one that can catch you at the worst possible time. You may be harder than Russian trigonometry and she may be hornier for you than a two-headed goat… but when its 2 AM and she’s got an important phone call at 8 or has to be in at work … well, you’re basically screwed.

And not in that fun, happy, slightly sticky way.

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Avoid the Dating/Relationship Frame

While you’re screening for people who might be interested in a casual hook-up, you want to be careful to avoid giving the impression that you’re looking for something that might lead to a relationship. It’s entirely possible to frame the interaction as having relationship potential entirely by accident; when I was first starting out, I ended up causing more than my share of hurt feelings and upsetting people because I had inadvertently led them on.

While you’re talking, you want to avoid topics that imply long-term plans or a potential future. “Deep” conversations like goals or philosophical topics are likewise a bad idea; it can be tempting to want to try to parlay being “deep” or “brooding” into sex, but you can find yourself portraying yourself as boyfriend material without meaning to.

Instead, you want to keep the conversation in the here and now. Talking about sensual experiences—tastes, smells, sounds—and things that excite her are better. You want to be in the moment rather than thinking about the future … except in one specific instance. But we’ll get to that in a moment.

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Convey Being Good in Bed

One of the biggest stumbling blocks when it comes to casual sex is the idea that the sex just won’t be worth the potential consequences. It’s going to be on you to be able to help her see you as being the great lay she’s looking for.

There are a number of ways to do this. Being a skilled dancer, especially in Latin dancing or club dancing, can increase a man’s perceived sexual prowess immensely.

A wingwoman—especially an ex who you are still friends with—is worth her weight in gold when it comes to selling yourself as being sexually capable. It’s one thing to talk about being good in bed, it’s another when you have someone else bragging for you. A female friend who will help you out here is a prize above rubies; women are far more likely to believe it when it comes from someone who presumably has firsthand1 knowledge on the matter.

Similarly, whether at parties or within your social circle, having a reputation as a playboy can work to your advantage. There’s no better advertising than word of mouth, and no better testimony than the word of an ex-lover—a very good reason to remain on good terms with exes when you can.

Failing that, you have many options. To start with, you will want to deliberately build physical chemistry and sexual tension, especially with physical escalation. Pulling hair (from the base of the scalp, not like you’re yanking on pigtails in grade-school), a hand on the small of the back, running your fingernails gently on the inside of her arm or back are all ways of generating that good kind of shiver. Knowing that you’re capable of making her feel that level of excitement deliberately will tell her that you know what you’re doing in bed.

Similarly, you can convey sexual prowess and experience it verbally without overtly saying “yeah, I can lick my eyebrows and breathe through my ears”. I’m a fan of verbal escalation, especially when I’m bantering. “I don’t know who your last boyfriend was but he did not spank you enough,” has caused more eyes to light up than I can easily count. Similarly, a cold read about her sexuality helps signal that you understand women. I’ve had great success with “You know, I’ve got a feeling about you. I think you’re the sort of person who’s divided, sexually. Sometimes you like to be sweet and sensual but other times you just want to fuck like an animal.”

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Build Trust and Comfort

Just as you want to signal that you’re good in bed, you also want to let her know that you’re someone who can be trusted. Avoiding crossing boundaries and giving her space when she needs it—preferably before she actually asks for it—tells her that you’re someone who will respect her limits and not push her into something that she doesn’t want.

(And this better be true.)

Once again: just because you’re both getting turned on and you’re trying to build up that sexual fire doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t respect her space.

Just as important, however, is the value of being sex-positive. Slut-shaming is a very large part of why some women won’t indulge in NSA sex, even if that’s exactly what they want—they worry about risking their reputation and being insulted for being sexual. There are a number of ways of conveying this: avoiding gendered insults, not talking badly about exes (even when they deserve it), and not calling women “sluts”, “whores” or “bitches” (unless that’s the dirty talk she’s into) is a good start. I’ve told stories about hook-ups who would kiss and tell and let it be known that I did not approve of that; whatever happened between me and my partner of the moment was strictly between the two of us.

“What happens next is just between you, me, and 400 of my closest friends on Facebook.”

The more comfortable she feels with you, the more likely it is that she’ll be interested in going home with you later.

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Stick the Landing

So let’s say that she did come home with you and the sex was the fireworks-and-touched-by-the-hand-of-God experience that you hoped it would be. Just because you both got off doesn’t mean that all that’s left is handing her a towel and pointing her to the door. The last thing you want is to treat her like a whore; by kicking her out—or inventing a reason to leave—you may as well throw a fifty on the nightstand and wipe your dick on the curtains on your way to the walk of shame. It’s proper post-sex etiquette to offer to let her stay the night (if she’s at your place) or to at least ask (if you’re at hers). She may not want to stay or may want you to leave (roommates; a legitimately early morning; she got hers so what does she need you for now, anyway? etc.), but you can make a genuine offer. Either way, you are cool with it.

If you stay, then in the morning everything is cool. You had a great time. She’s an awesome person. You offer to make breakfast – or at least take her to coffee; after all, if it was great last night then there’s nothing better than morning-after sex. Either way: once again, you treat her with respect and courtesy. You don’t want to be just one more blurred night of regrets and bad decisions. Even if you never see her again, it’s better to be remembered as a great night than another reminder that she needs to quit drinking.

Besides, if the two of you had a great time together, there’s nothing that says you can’t hook up again.

Originally appeared at Doctor NerdLove

1. fnar

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—Photo Alyssa L. Miller/Flickr
—Photo Librarian Avenger/Flickr
—Photo anthonycramp/Flickr
—Photo o5com/Flickr
—Photo johncarlijohnson/Flickr
—Photo marc falardeau/Flickr

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About Harris O'Malley

Harris O'Malley provides geek dating advice at his blog Paging Dr. NerdLove, as well as writing the occasional guest review for Spill.com and appearing on the podcast The League of Extremely Ordinary Gentlemen. He can be found dispensing snark and advice on Facebook and Twitter (@DrNerdLove.)

Dr. NerdLove is not really a doctor.

Comments

  1. “This is a mistake on many levels. At its core, you’re telling the woman that all you’re looking for is some place warm and wet to stick your dick and this is the only reason why you’re talking to her. This is part of the reason why so many women come away from casual one night stands and same-night lays feeling like shit; for all intents and purposes, she just met someone who wanted to use her as a masturbatory tool, not to connect with a person. It’s the mark of an asshole. And yes, I’ve done it and I felt like shit the morning after myself.”

    Uh. You’re having casual sex, not having a relationship. By it’s definition sex is pretty much the only thing on your mind AND her mind in a one night stand. The problem here sounds like women are expecting wayyy too muchhh from a casual encounter, and most guys that think any hole is a goal STILL WANT TO CONNECT WITH A PERSON. Why are you an asshole for it? You wanted casual sex, you got it, she got it, what’s the problem?

    • SecondBeach says:

      As a woman who digs good casual sex but is wary of it because it’s easy to have bad casual sex, I think this article is pretty spot on.

      Because sex is hotter with good connection. Because you can do wilder things with someone you trust. Because people won’t automatically know what gets the other off and it’s easier to communicate with someone you’ve built a connection with. My best casual sex has been after a few hours of flirtatious bar conversation and a friendly chat about sexual preferences (act? position? kinks?) arm in arm while wandering back to my/their place. Could not have been clearer that we were in it for the night, but it was all the more enjoyable because we took the time to get to know each other a little and build a trust. Because we cared about each other a little. For the night.

      • Its true, but I really wondering, is there really a guy who would ask a woman directly, ” hey do you want to have sex with me? ” for casual sex?, lol, I think although most guys more into casual sex because it have less risk for men ( like pregnancy, better chance orgasm, no slut shaming ), we guys also want to know about our partner first and see if we are clicked. If a guy want to have sex directly without having to know each other, he would have gone to prostitute.

        I think casual sex for women and men are not really different, we both want to have attraction and connection first, then sex. Honestly, I don’t want to have casual sex with woman if she doesn’t have a sexual attraction for me at all. Yes, we could build that connection later trough conversation, but initial attraction for me is a must for a casual sex. And I want my casual partner have that attraction towards me too. I think although connection is needed for women, physical aspects also matter. If you look good, smells good, groom good, dress good, you would have easier time building connection with women. At least if you take care of yourself, you would look more confident, and women would think you respect yourself, and more likely to respect her. So besides connection and respect, I think men appearance is really matter for casual sex.

  2. Oh dear we’re not mistaken. We know women like casual sex.

    But they are much much more selective, they have very high standards and they find very few men physically/sexually appealing. Hence it appears to most men that women aren’t interested in casual sex.

    • Lets think about this, most women spend their days taking care of their appearance. They worry about their weights and body shape, so they are dieting.They taking care of their hairs, using hair treatment products to make their hair looks smooth and good. They go to hair saloon. They taking care of their skin using various body lotion, moisturizer, body scrub, etc. They like go shopping and searching for nice clothes which will make them look better. Men? Lets admit it, most of us do not taking care of our appearance and we don’t know how to dress.

      And you complain how women think most men are not physically/sexually appealing?

      I workout, taking care of my appearance, and I find nice fitted clothes. And I have receive many compliment from women ( and men ) about how good my looks. Its easy, if you want women to find you physically attractive just work for it.

      • Men need to be good looking, be in perfect shape, wear good fashionable clothes, look their best if they want to go out and pull a woman for casual sex.

        A woman can be chubby, average looking, wear her jeans, an inexpensive top, make a pony tail, put on minimal makeup and choose from a dozen men, while on a night out.

        This is all the effort women have to put into their looks to get laid.
        Women put all the effort into their appearance for other reasons.

        • Replace minimal make-up with no-make-up-at-all.

          It works.

          You know the men who say they prefer the no-make-up look. They exist. They,re not “really looking for someone who looks like they have none but have some”, they’d rather their girlfriend, whom they find pretty just as is, didn’t spend 15 minutes+ every morning just to “appear acceptable”. To save cost, to save time, to save trouble – and mainly, because the end result isn’t prettier.

          I always found visible eyeshadow to be tacky. Either you’re doing a cabaret show, theater where its there for effects, some TV program…or you look very weird. I’ll think of Hoyt’s mother in True Blood WAY before I think of an attractive woman, using make-up this way.

          But even “natural” make up, the kind that doesn’t show (much), that men might not notice cause they’re not pro about make-up. Is not necessary. Your natural tone is just fine. Your cheeks can flush naturally, without having a ton of powder on them. And it’s not a disaster if they don’t flush on cue. Your lashes aren’t your date’s first thing, and you know what: he has lashes too – it’s not some glittery feminine-only thing (regardless of what cartoons try to tell us with only female anthropomorphic creatures having lashes). He probably doesn’t care about their length or thickness. Lash Blast won’t impress him, one bit. And it doesn’t make your “regard” “more intense” (that sounds like a creepy stare anyways), combined with eyeliner and eyeshadow, it makes you look like a raccoon…that works for a circus.

          • I like women in makeup…I also like them without. Eyeliner n eyelash makeup really stand out to me, I was crushed to learn the eyelashes women have on tv were fake! They really make eyes stand out but I’d suggest saving it for special occasions just like I don’t walk around in my finest threads n spend lots of time grooming every day like I do when I goto a wedding, etc.

        • My comments keep not appearing, weird.

          “Men need to be good looking, be in perfect shape, wear good fashionable clothes, look their best if they want to go out and pull a woman for casual sex. ”

          No, you just need to be in good shaped ( no fat beer bellies ), smells good, clean , groomed, and wear nice fitted clothes ( too many men wearing overly baggy shirt and pants, its ridiculous ). You dont need to built like fitness models, just be in shaped. Both men and women attracted to healthy person. And you dont need to buy designer clothes, just clothes that fit your body.

          “A woman can be chubby, average looking, wear her jeans, an inexpensive top, make a pony tail, put on minimal makeup and choose from a dozen men, while on a night out.”

          Honestly I never feel attracted to chuby average looking women who dont know how to dress and dont know how to wears makeup. This with the assumption I dont know her personality at all, because attraction can change If we know someone better, yes, even for a man.

          I agree that average looking woman could pull out casual sex if she ask it, but she would only get desperate horny man who couldnt get attractive woman, or very horny and drunk guy who only look for warm hole. And I guess its not the situation most women want to be, unless shes pretty desperate too.

      • If you spend more than 100$ (maybe 200$ including make-up) a year on hygiene and beauty products, you’re too high maintenance for me. Male or female.

        I spend at most 50$ on it, but I’m not the one paying the soap bars, so I can’t say how much that cost.

        Imo what lotions and salons and pricy boutique clothes do to your beauty is either change it completely (you’re putting on a costume), or enhance it very very slightly (think +5-10%). Lest someone have a fetish for some body alteration (including make-up and wearing certain shoes), I see no reason to find the made up face more attractive, or calves regardless of their shape. If I don’t find you attractive in your lazy-weekend-at-home clothes, I won’t find you attractive in your made-up face and expensive clothes. I’ll find you likely to be a bit too superficial for me. And too high maintenance (I live frugally and prefer placing my money in non-superficial stuff, like hobbies and leisure). Plus I think make-up looks clownish (wether on me or others), so I’m unlikely to find it appealing.

        I’m unlikely to be really flattered by compliments about how conventionally attractive I look, coming from conformists.

        • I spend more than that probably, razors cost quite a bit (30 for 6 which get about 2 weeks usage maybe) + toothbrush (6 bucks every few months), toothpaste (maybe 20bucks a year?), mouthwash (10-20 a year), face wash (5dollar bottle every 2 months), shampoo n conditioner ( about 20-40 a year), body wash (10-20 a year), various soaps n hand lotions (about 20- a year, maybe more), haircuts are 10bucks every 6-7 weeks. I live in Australia though so prices are probably higher, fuel is $1.50 a litre, milk is about 2bucks a litre, a basic mcdonalds meal is about 10 bucks just for reference.

          • Razors 20$ a year (they last months each if good quality), Shampoo and conditioner 10$ a year (one bottle of each lasts almost a year). Toothpaste 10$ a year for me alone. Soap 10$ a year. Haircut: never. My mom cuts my bangs once every 6-12 months, that’s it. No trim otherwise, no cut, no styling (I brush my hair, that’s enough).

            Your prices are in range of mine in Canada.

            • Sounds cheaper. I am a lil picky, I bathe twice a day as it’s a hot n humid climate here so you get very sweaty n oily so I go through quite a bit of soaps.

          • No mouthwash (I consider brushing my teeth to be enough), no face wash (if water isn’t doing it, something’s wrong). No lotions at all.

            No deodorant. It’s a new fad. If I bath regularly, I shouldn’t be ashamed or made to feel guilty about my body odor. I also have no armpit hair, never had any. Might help for that.

            Toothbrush, 3$ for a year.

            and normally, my make-up which cost 50$ total, should expire in a year…in practice, I use it til it turns bad (its all powder), which is over 2 years apparently. But I use it very sparingly (once a month, maybe).

            • I’ve noticed that men who *say* they don’t like women in makeup or dressed up often respond far better to women who do wear makeup and are dressed up. I’m not talking crazy amounts of makeup or evening gowns every day, but decently well done make up and clothes that are thought out for the situation. This is when women turn heads and get asked out. This is when woman are praised.

            • As a trans woman I prefer not wearing make-up, and I don’t like it on others either.

              I wear make-up to please my boyfriend, once in a while, because he personally likes it.

              My mother doesn’t get out of the house without make-up, since before my birth. I couldn’t stand looking at myself in the mirror if I was like that.

            • I notice when people take care of themselves. Some of those women who don’t wear makeup also tend to wear “comfy” clothing that hides their figure n often makes them look fat + don’t brush their hair. A bit of makeup is nice but taking 3 hours to apply it is a problem :P.

              I have a friend who doesn’t wear makeup but wears jeans n tight tops with just the right fit, and believe me she is extremely sexy. Clothing matters a lot as baggy clothes hide your curves, body, and don’t’ engage the sex drive much. It can also be that they may feel more confident, most women I know without makeup seem insecure. Hell I feel insecure without my decent clothes on, I don’t goto town in my yard clothes whilst many guys here do.

              And no deoderant? I live in a hot n humid climate, people here stink without deoderant. I loveee my colognes though, I wear them more for me so I get those occasional scents throughout the night.

            • “I’ve noticed that men who *say* they don’t like women in makeup or dressed up often respond far better to women who do wear makeup and are dressed up”

              when men say they don’t like women in makeup they always think about women with overly done makeup. When they think a woman is pretty without makeup, big chance is the woman use little amount of makeup ( like foundation/ concealer ) and still looks natural.Even in my college all my girl friends never go out with bare face, but they still look natural.

              I think its like when women said they don’t like muscular guys, they always think about bodybuilder or fitness model guys on magazine cover with huge muscles, ripped bodies with bulging veins. But they still respond to guys with athletic fit muscular bodies but not huge and ripped like bodybuilders and fitness model ( who only looks like that on stage and on photo shoot, they don’t look like that everyday ).

              I workout and have athletic muscular fit bodies ( not too huge but certainly bigger than average guys ), and I notice attention from women. Some of them directly gave me compliments, like ” wow your arms are huge” when I was wearing a tees ( and they are strangers ). Some of them approach me and ask me permission to touch my body ” can I feel your abs?” when I’m on beach shirtless and ask me to take pics with them. And that’s why I feel weird when many women said they don’t like muscular guys and don’t care for looks in a guy. Ask any attractive guys or muscular guys you know, and ask them if women really dont care for appearance at all in men, they would be laughing lol.

            • “when men say they don’t like women in makeup they always think about women with overly done makeup.”
              This is wrong. Don’t tell me what I think. Don’t tell women what men always think. Most men have some women they are close to and they know how a face with makeup and how a face with no makeup look like. So if they say, they prefer women without makeup, just believe them.

            • Ahh, men sweat more and not sure if you are male bodied? But I know for me I NEED deroderant as I am both male + overweight n living in a hot n humid area so we sweat quite a lot here. I am also slightly OCD about oil on my skin, I realllly hate it so I use facewash, etc to get a nice clear skin and that also helps with any issues with pimples. In colder/dryer climates I don’t have as much issues with skin getting too oily, infact it usually dries out :S

            • We got both hot and humid…and cold and humid (when it’s a at snowing temperatures or above), and sometimes dry (mostly when its very cold).

              I don’t know what male bodied would mean in this sense. Penises don’t cause sweat.

              In Canada, Quebec province, we got about the same climate as New York, maybe a bit colder, but we don’t get tropical storms (they become plain rain storms when here, maybe windy but nothing like there). No tornados, no noticeable earthquakes (at least none that do damage), no tsunamis, no flood, no forest fires (usually, at least nothing like California). But we have snow and very hot in summer and very cold in winter temperatures. Gotta take the good with the bad.

              I had acne issues before transition. Entirely caused by testosterone overflow (it didn’t affect me otherwise, it just went straight for the skin apparently). Since I killed T production (through cyproterone acetate 100 mg daily), no issue. No acne since I was 24, 6 years ago – which is when I started taking hormones. I’m pretty sure that I would have had lifelong issues otherwise. I’m almost allergic to T.

            • Ah. By male bodied I mean typical testosterone laden penis wielding body which i believe sweats more than female bodies and causes more BO.

              The climate here atm is 32degree’s celcius + humidity, I live in the high cyclonic area of North Queensland, Australia. The heat smashes me and I drench my shirt if I am working outside for more than 20 minutes, so showering twice a day + full wash is necessary for me and I go through quite a lot of soaps for that.

        • 100 $? Its not even half of my gym fee membership for a year. ( If we consider working out as beauty products, for me its more like a hobby ). I cut my hair in my favorite barbershop ( hate hair salon, they don’t know how to cut men hair ) , and its already more than 100$ a year. I use Murray’s pomade ( 3$ , cheap but quality stuff ) and American Crew Hair Clay ( 15 $) for my hairstyles. My Soap, shampoo, conditioner, face wash and moisturizer, razors, deodorant, perfume, already cost more than 100$. Heck my Bvlgari Aqua ( my favorite fragrance ) alone cost around 40$ .

          And I don’t think I’m that high maintenance. I just like taking care of my appearance and hygiene. And I’m not doing it for women attention, its for myself. But yes, women do notice and like men who looks and smells good.

          • My boyfriend and I both have long hair, it looks good. Mine is thicker than his (he’s also older).

            We don’t get it cut. See no reason to.

            Washing it more often than a week, unless it gets extremely dirty (due to workplace, very sweaty, etc) is unnecessary. Also, sweat is water soluble, hair products are not. Meaning getting your hair and scalp wet removes the sweat, without using shampoo or anything.

            I wash mine every 2 weeks. And it used to be 3 weeks. 2 is better maybe, given I don’t wet it at other times (I also don’t sweat much).

            My hair is shiny, healthy-looking, and neatly brushed. I don’t care if it gets tangled because I go out in the wind or humidity. I’m not “afraid” of getting my hair wet or into humidity (and laugh at people who are). My hair is wavy, humidity makes it a bit more curly. My hair is never “perfect”, and I don’t care for attaining an unattainable standard.

            But it sure is low maintenance to have long hair. 3 feet long. Costs me about nothing a year. Wooden brushes last forever (mine is over 7 years old).

            No perfume. I like to think pheromones work by the nose, and that perfume just screws it all up. I take care of my appearance, but refuse to “follow fashion” (I also don’t have a budget even approaching the low-end of someone who goes into thrift stores to follow fashion by seasons), to partake in fads (I also don’t own a cell phone, don’t need a leash) or to do stuff because others deem it cool or more acceptable.

            I do stuff because I deem it acceptable per my own standards. When someone agrees with my standards, I found someone compatible. Better that way than trying to meet every single standards at once, to get a bigger number.

            • I have very oily skin and I feel completely icky if I don’t wash my hair n body at least once a day. It’s especially annoying as I wear glasses and end up with facial oils on them and on the bits near the ears which really bother me. Maybe I am metro :P

            • I’m with Archy, I feel totally gross if I don’t shower and wash my hair at least once a day. If I’m working out, working in the garden, or it’s a hot day, I shower in the evening too. I stink if I don’t wash with soap and use deoderant daily. I can’t stand the smell of BO. I won’t go near my boyfriend if he’s stinky.

            • Hair itself is dead keratin. It has no nerve, and despite what shampoo commercials tell you, it can’t be repaired, and it won’t absorb nutrients. Only the scalp is alive (because ultimately, its skin). Hair itself has no biological process that could sweat or produce bad smell.

              Only your environment (smoke, dust) and the scalp and neck, could sweat or make it be dirty. Sweat goes off without using shampoo. Yes, this includes the smell of sweat. Because sweat is water soluble (its mostly water, too).

              The only reason to shampoo everyday would be working in extremely dirty conditions (ie, a mechanic working under a car, or working in sewage), or using a ton of hair products (hair spray and such), which are not water soluble and look bad if left in.

              If there’s sweat you can wet your hair without washing it using shampoo, the only difference is the perfume they put in shampoo. Oh and shampoo removes all your scalp’s natural oils, screwing with your hair’s normal “coating” cycle, and accelerating it (ie you stimulate your hair’s oilyness by depriving your hair of it too often – normally you wouldn’t hit “oily” until 3 to 4 weeks, considering not even wetting your hair, with very long hair…but if you wash every single day you’ll hit “oily” in a few days only, but you conditioned your scalp to that).

            • My hair/scalp goes oily after a few hours, I wakeup and NEED to shampoo it or I feel disgusting all day. It’s always been like that even when I didn’t shampoo regularly. I only hair short hair though so it’s just a bit of shampoo to remove the scalpy oilyness

            • if I don’t wash my hair every day, it develops an unpleasant unwashed odor very quickly. I can smell it the next day if I haven’t showered. It’s very yucky. And soap and shampoo are necessary to remove the oil and bacteria that cause body odor. I agree sweat itself has no odor, but the skin also produces oils that bacteria feed on. That’s why the ancients used olive oil to clean themselves, before soap was invented. They would drench themselves in oil then scrape it off to remove body oils and dirt. Soap works much better

            • You think they did this daily, or more than once a day?

              Heck, at the beginning of the century, shampoo was only a kind of harsh soap, so people washed their hair once a week at best. I bet they didn’t smell crazily unwashed for those 6 days in between.

            • I spent a summer in Europe back in the ’80’s when it was common for Europeans in some countries to shower only once or twice a week, and no one wore deodorant. Believe me, people smelled unwashed. The B.O. on the subway in Madrid could make you pass out. But everyone there was used to it, I guess.

  3. These articles tell us that women are selective just because they have a risk of being sexually violated or having their reputation tarnished.

    They dont mention that even if these factors were removed, hypothetically, women would still be much more picky than men and have higher standards because they just find fewer men physically and sexually appealing. They are just predisposed to find fewer men attractive. That or maybe nature just creates more ugly men than women. This is the root of the conundrum.

    • That or maybe nature just creates more ugly men than women.
      The plain indian peahen is as selective as human females, and the peacock runs after the peahen in a similar manner to human males – even though every peacock is clearly more beautiful. If you could interview the peacock, I bet he like you would declare that the female of his species is more physically beautiful too

  4. Peter von Maidenberg says:

    Or perhaps they’re only comfortable with the idea of casual sex with a thin “window” of interested men who manage to work the requirements to perfection. Safe, yet dangerous; tender, yet hard; open, yet opaque.

    Men can hook up with a 5 on the looks/fun scale and have little to fear or regret. Women need to at least try for a 9 or 10 on the scale of delicately balanced contradictions or a world of sadness awaits…

    • As someone who has experienced a lot of casual sex, I would say that if a guy who is a 9 or a 10 approached ME for it and I compared him to someone lower and had to make a choice, then yes I’d probably choose the 9 or 10. I believe this choice is no different for men and women!

      My last FWB/casual partners were both about 6 and a 7. I would never try and pull a 9 or 10. Thats just dumb. Im not a 9 or 10, plus he gets lots of sex because he’s a 9 or 10 so Im looking for someone who has less of an ego and works hard at the sexual act. Plus people who are ‘collaborative’ generally need to be down to earth and not egotistical so 9s or 10s unfortunately portray a egotistical majority. Most of those guys are used to women throwing themselves at their feet, not for me thanks.

      Time after time I’ve seen other gals casual guys and they are rarely 9 or 10s. Other girls are much more likely to try and get that 9 or 10 to be her boyfriend not her casual partner.

      This article is right that the mot important thing about casual sex is making it a collaboration and connecting through being a decent and respectful man. I once had a one night stand with a 20 year old (yeah i know…) I was 25. He began to use me like a blow up doll, after a few minutes I was like mate I can’t be arsed to show you how not to do this, leave please.

      Ultimately though, when you have the same casual partner for a long time and get to know them you might develop an attachment (happened to me) and then you start thinking why can’t we just be together more often? lets have a meaningful relationship! then BAM your hooked. and you hurt your feelings .

      So, don’t keep them for long ladies.

      Personally, I’ve had enough of these situations and I only want to consider guys who are looking to date with a view to a meaningful relationship. No more casualness for me.

      good luck

      • ” As someone who has experienced a lot of casual sex, I would say that if a guy who is a 9 or a 10 approached ME for it and I compared him to someone lower and had to make a choice, then yes I’d probably choose the 9 or 10. I believe this choice is no different for men and women! ”

        At last, a honest woman

        “Plus people who are ‘collaborative’ generally need to be down to earth and not egotistical so 9s or 10s unfortunately portray a egotistical majority. Most of those guys are used to women throwing themselves at their feet, not for me thanks ”

        No, most attractive guys don’t used to women throwing themselves at their feet because most women, like you, tend to generalize attractive men as an egoistical asshole jerk. Trust me, in my circle friends of male models, most attractive guys usually are more shy and timid than the average but confident alpha guys. Most of them even more into relationship than casual sex.

        If you look around and think about it, most men who are went from bar to bar looking for sex and go to prostitutes usually are not the attractive one. Seriously its make me wonder why women always assumed attractive men more likely to be jerk and not respect women. Is it really their experience with many attractive guys or they just assume it ?

        • John – I have experienced the 9 and 10s being full off themselves more often than not. Cant really base it on anything else, maybe i could read some studies about this issue? I have always avoided the obviously good looking types, the stunningly hansom. Just me I guess.
          i have seen more often than not my comments about 9 and 10 women. I am not sure where I stand on that opinion tbh. Extreme confidence and on the negative side, the power to manipulate is legions more sexy and powerful than good looks when it comes to men.

          • So, basically if your not a 9 or 10 as long as your powerful and confident you don’t have that much to be worried about when it comes women. But you already knew that.

          • “the power to manipulate is legions more sexy and powerful than good looks when it comes to men” “So, basically if your not a 9 or 10 as long as your powerful and confident you don’t have that much to be worried about when it comes women. But you already knew that”

            That’s why i said attractive guys are usually not that egoistical and full of themselves . They know that for a man, just good looks wont bring you anywhere. Not just in dating, but also in college and workplace. As a college guys who some modelling, being good looking sometimes makes me more insecure and makes me feel like a loser, especially because I used to deal with shyness and I’m not that smart compare to some of my college friends. And I always have difficulties in dating and relationship in the past because of my insecurities and shyness , but not casual sex. I’m not really into casual sex, but for me, go to a bar and getting laid is easy. Every time I go to bar I often have woman approaching me ( and I had casual sex with some of them ). That’s why I think for women good looks still matter for casual sex, but not so much for dating. I think when women just looking for casual sex, their preference on personalities are much lower compare to when they looking for relationship. I don’t know this is true or not, its just my experience.

            “I have always avoided the obviously good looking types, the stunningly hansom”
            How do you know those good looking types are egoistical and full of themselves if you always avoided them? Maybe you should approach one of them to prove if they really that jerk or not.

            • @John…

              “I think when women just looking for casual sex, their preference on personalities are much lower compare to when they looking for relationship. I don’t know this is true or not, its just my experience.”

              Yes, you are correct. All the woman need is to find the man attractive. Usually, it is physical attraction. He could be a thug, derelict……it does not matter to the woman.

      • NK

        Yeah and women who are 3 & 4, are also casually schtupping guys no less than 6 and 7.

        I have seen women the size of a small car having a steady stream of fit young men to have sex with. And then these fat women whine about feeling undesirable. Women are so blinded by their own perspective

        • Women love to PRETEND.

          • Jules, is that a direct comment about my comments or is that just a general comment about the issue in general?

            General, general, general

            • @NK..

              It is a general comment about women. You have to deeply discount what they say. Just pay very close attention to what they do. Therein lies the truth of the matter.

              I am a man of average physical attractiveness. However, I am a high status guy. I do dress very well, work out, and run 5 days a week. I am well educated (Vanderbilt) and successful. I am bold and confident yet laid back and low key most of time. I have zippy to prove to anyone. Women find me attractive and likable.

              I am not a womanizer and only do FWB arrangements. I have two friends at present and am not looking to add anymore. I have never engaged in casual sex nor am I inclined to do so.

              I just find most women thoroughly dishonest about the whole sex thingy. I have had women get pissed because I refused to go out with them. Or say I was gay. Their mindset was “how dare you turn me down.”

              But, it is the lay of the land. Adapt or perish.

            • It is a general comment about women. You have to deeply discount what they say. Just pay very close attention to what they do. Therein lies the truth of the matter.

              I feel the same about men. That sounds like a human condition and not a genderist one.

              But yes, women probably get rejected less than men so they rant as adept at dealing with it. A FWB is casual sex in my opinion.

              Women being dishonest about sex – they underestimate the power of the attachment that happens in my experience.

        • Keith – those women are dumb.

  5. Peter von Maidenberg says:

    Thanks for your insights, but I’m not sure you get my point that a 9-10 for a woman isn’t just good looking and fun.

  6. This is all fine and good. But what’s in it for me? I mean, if I have to put so much effort into wooing a woman I better get sex and get paid on top of it. Or at the very least the sex has to be mind-blowing.

    So maybe for a chance we could talk about how women can step their game up.

  7. Great article!

    I once met a girl in a club, then went back to her place. We were naked and making out on her bed, and I said, “I want to fuck you, I’m going to find my condoms.” Then I went looking for my wallet in the mess of clothes on her floor. She sat up in bed, looked at me and said,

    “Oh my god, you know exactly what to do! That’s so hot!”

  8. The Wet One says:

    And all women have to do is show up and say “Yes.”

    See why men are annoyed?

    • Yes, this is why Dr. Nerdlove’s advice is popular with women. It feeds into their sense of entitlement.

      • Some women, but it does seem to be popular with them. It seems to be more about telling women what they want to hear vs understanding why men are annoyed.

        • I’m going to write men’s rights inspired dating/self-improvement advice for women, if the editor here can promise me that I get published. Topics I will touch on: Cooking a decent roast; dressing sexy but not slutty; staying in shape while not complaining about your brutal workout and diet regimen; how to be a wxxxx in the bedroom; stop nagging and be emotional supportive.

          I’m not sure how well this would go with the female readership here. But fair is fair. After all Dr. Nerdlove’s feminist inspired dating advice gets published too. So my advice would balance things out.

          My pen name will be Prof. Settleforthatguy.

          • The Wet One says:

            I’ll read that. Sounds like I’d enjoy it!

            Lol!

            The Wet One

          • This female reader would enjoy the tips. :) Except the part about the pot roast. I’m totally attracted to a certain vegetarian guy. And he cooks, too! Yum.

          • Bay Area Guy says:

            I would gladly read it! But since GMP in all likelihood would not publish such an article, I’m wondering if there is any article written by a female equivalent of Dr. Nerdlove, telling women how they need to suck it up and improve themselves.

            I would be very interested to read it.

            • I think that this site sees itself as a site for and about men, hence it would be suprising to find such an article here. Do ypu know Susan Walsh from Hooking up smart? That is a “girl game” blog, but it is not a female version of Nerdlove, less ideological and about finding a life partner and not getting some.

            • Bay Area Guy says:

              @ Alberich

              I have heard of Susan Walsh, and have recently been reading some of her work. Great stuff!

              This country needs more Susan Walsh’s and fewer Amanda Marcotte’s.

            • I don’t like Susan Wash stuffs, shes very stereotypical about gender roles and always assumed women and men are really different trough various “bro-science” studied about biological and psychological differences between men and women. Like women naturally are more into alpha males and not beta males. ( I hate when anybody put men on different categories like alpha and beta ). I more into Dr Nerd Love idea that we are not that different, our differences mostly created by society and culture. Some men are into casual sex, some of them don’t, just like women, some of them are into casual sex and some them don’t. We are not that different.

            • “( I hate when anybody put men on different categories like alpha and beta ). I more into Dr Nerd Love idea that we are not that different, our differences mostly created by society and culture”
              This is an example of what I wrote below, about seperating what is “true” from what is “good”. You usage of tems like “I am more into” and “I hate”, indicates that it is about your personal preferences and not about truth.

            • Bay Area Guy says:

              I more into Dr Nerd Love idea that we are not that different, our differences mostly created by society and culture. Some men are into casual sex, some of them don’t, just like women, some of them are into casual sex and some them don’t. We are not that different.

              Yeah, well, if that were really the case, Dr. Nerdlove’s website wouldn’t even exist in the first place, would it?

            • @ Alberich

              I too have heard of Susan Walsh. She is a notorious critic of college hook-up culture, which she asserts is harmful to women. She advocates for a return to traditional gender rolls, in order to protect women from themselves.

              Near the end of the first page of her Hooking Up Smart website is an article entitled “The Real Reason Why Men and Women Can’t Be Friends.” This article provides a good introduction to her views on casual sex and gender relations.

              If anything I would call Walsh far more ideological than Doctor NerdLove.

            • Bay Area Guy says:

              Walsh certainly is ideological. However, she lacks much of the snark and condescension that characterize most of Nerdlove’s articles.

            • “If anything I would call Walsh far more ideological than Doctor NerdLove.”
              I don’t see where you provided evidence for this claim. She might be wrong but this doesn’t necessarily mean that she doesn’t make an honest effort to portray the dating and mating world truthfully.
              What I thought of was, that I haven’t seen her dismiss a statement with arguments like, “this is misogynistic”. She seems to try to seperate between truth and what she believes is good.
              Of course everybody is kind of biased and I have only read a couple of her posts.

            • She seems to try to seperate between truth and what she believes is good.

              This makes me wonder if we are talking about the same person.

              In the article I referenced, Susan Walsh twists the findings of a scientific study to fit her preconceptions. She quotes a pop psychology article about the study as saying, for example, “Men were…more likely than women to think that their opposite-sex friends were attracted to them—a clearly misguided belief.” Even this hyperbole is too nuanced to support her agenda, so she rephrases it as “Guys want to have sex with their girl friends, and assume girls feel the same way.” (The proximity between a link to the study and the previous quote initially misled me into believing that the quote was actually from the study.)

              Walsh cherry-picks studies that seem to support her beliefs. Such tactics do not constitute “an honest effort” to examine anything.

              I find it odd that you use a word like “truth” when discussing a topic such as the usefulness of traditional gender roles, when such a topic is necessarily subjective.

  9. “all you’re looking for is some place warm and wet to stick your dick and this is the only reason why you’re talking to her.”

    That is EXACTLY the reason he is talking to her. He wants to use her body; she wants to use his. Why do some people feed a need to pretend it’s more than that?

    • Ugh. I hate typos. Feed should be feel.

      • Peter von Maidenberg says:

        It’s a good typo. Some people feel the need – others feed the need.
        Of course they don’t always find one another.

    • Its more that that. If I want to have casual sex with woman, I want to have good time together. Just using her body as another tool for masturbation is not gonna make us both have good time. If we want to have good time with anyone, of course we would respect that person, right? We would not kick their asses out after those good times right?

    • if that is your attitude, I wouldn’t want to have sex with you. It’s as simple as that.

      Casual sex should be about mutual fun and pleasure. I’m not a blow up doll. If you just want a physical release with an anonymous collection of body parts, you should get a prostitute.

      • Sarah, I think that’s what he’s saying though. They’re mutually using each other as it’s about mutual fun but in physical pleasure form alone vs emotional as you may get from a relationship. Using one way is bad, using both ways is mutual.

        • Even a hookup should have an emotional component. At the least, you should like each other. You should care about the other person even for just that night. You should not view them as just a tool.

          But that’s just how I look at it. Actually, I don’t really enjoy casual encounters that much. I’ve learned they don’t really satisfy me.

          • Well I guess by emotional I mean a deeper feeling like love, vs lust with a bit of an emotional component. I’m not so sure I could do casual sex either but that’s more due to trust issues and insecurities about myself.

    • To expound on my first comment: How do you have mutually-enjoyed casual sex wthout having sex? When you want to have sex, don’t you look for someone whom you believe is interested in using/providing her or his body to bring pleasure to yours, regardless whether you want them to enjoy it, too? Is claiming that you were interested in the other person’s pleasure actually for the purpose of your reputation; i.e., “I’m not a jerk who uses other people”, or “See, I’m really great in bed”? Is claiming that you made a connection with the other person also actually for the purpose of your reputation; i.e., “I wasn’t used for sex because I can tell he or she likes me”?

      (FYI#1: you = generic you)
      (FYI#2: These questions are from a woman who puts sex on a pedestal, who believes sex is special, that sex is not “just sex”, and that it’s more than “an itch that needs to be scratched” with whomever will scratch it.)

    • The Wet One says:

      And this is why I’m glad prostitution is legal in my country. You can have an honest sexual relationship with a woman with an agreeable mutual exchange and everyone is happy. Why is that so criminal is beyond me. Marriage is sometimes a much worse deal and yet it’s lionized. Lying, abuse (emotional, physical, financial), cheating all goes with marriage. A decent customer / professional relationship is 100x better than some marriages. Of course, lousy prostitution situations do exist (such as coerced prostitution) and those situations must be criminalized and prosecuted with all the vengeance that the law can bring to bear, but otherwise, it’s all good. Don’t even have to go and pay cover or drink ridiculous drinks in an unbearably loud and ridiculous environment. And best of all (from the man’s perspective) you get laid!

      Not entirely sure how selling sex to women works (though it is done in relatively small amounts). Not sure if the outcome is as satisfactory to all involved (though I’ve read the odd account of same here and there on the net). But it seems markedly honest to me too. But then that’s me…

  10. John

    I want to break this to you, that in casual sex encounters, men are generally a lot more friendly, courteous than women. The women have a lot more leverage, they usually get to decide when where and how. Men are more insecure about their ‘performance’, They are more likely to ask her number for future (its usually upto the woman to decide if she wants to do it again). Women are more likely to kick a man out of bed after its over.

  11. Excerpt:
    “One of the first keys to finding people who are interested in casual sex is very simple: you need to be comfortable with meeting people.”
    Wrong. The quote should have read:

    “One of the first keys FOR MEN finding WOMEN who are interested in casual sex is very simple: you need to be comfortable with meeting people.”

    Since men are saddled with the majority of burden to put themselves out there and initiate, quiet introverted girls can and do get indications of interest from men. What sounds like a human issue is really just a female entitlement issue.

    The social burden for men to risk being rejected puts women into a position of entitlement and control.

    If I went through life getting daily indicators of interest and messages I was desirable as most women do, I would be very entitled and picky too and never settle for “just sex” but would feel I could screen for only GREAT SEX. Especially if I was getting indicators of interest about every 40 minutes (as even plain women do).

    When men are entitled we are called on our bullshit.

    When women are entitled, men are told “You’re doing it wrong. Here’s how to re-define yourself to fit into the average entitled women’s narrow mold of a necessary mate for GREAT SEX (since women don’t need or want “just sex” like men do).

    • Here’s the missing key: I’m becoming convinced that women are as into casual sex as men, but due to men’s lower sexual selectivity relative to women, even women who are personality-looks wise less attractive than you have access to more attractive men. Consequently, women who are “in your league” and maybe even a rung or two lower can have casual sex or an FWB relationship with a guy on a much higher level. Of the women open to casual sex, you have to be in the top rung of guys she’s generally able to land.

      • I agree with most of what you’re saying. However, the top 5% of men can’t be spread to 100% of women.

        What this means is that women’s much higher resistance to attraction of men (or to say no to sex except for the upper tiers of attractiveness) actually leads to lower sex sessions for both men AND WOMEN as these women would rather have no sex, over (what they deem to be) mediocre sex because the guy doesn’t ring their bell like a hammer on an anvil.

        It’s pretty sad, when you think about it.

  12. This site gets worse with every article Dr. Nerlove posts. “Bring along a woman to brag about how good you are in bed.”

    Is this a PUA site now?

  13. Dorine Moore says:

    I loved this article, Parts I and II. The research was interesting and resonated with me. I do not get the sense that this article encourages the idea that women are entitled. (But maybe that’s because I’m a woman.) Rather, I feel that it fosters an understanding that some women actually do want casual sex and what they are looking for. This is not to say that men must do all of these things to earn their reward. It is simply an insight into the desires of women. Men can then decide if, and how, they’d like to share in such fantasy encounters. It’s true that women would benefit from insights into the perspectives and desires of men, as well. And, of course, these are all generalities, certainly not true for all individuals of either gender. I think it would be interesting to read anecdotes in this comment section about the experiences of men and women who have enjoyed (or have regretted) casual sex, and why.

    • I had a casual encounter many years ago with a friend of a friend (I was 22, he was 35) and what pissed me off, ultimately, is that I didn’t hear from him again for over a YEAR and then he called out of the blue, wanted to get together ASAP, and then when we met for coffee, immediately wanted to go back to my place and got mad when I said no. He clearly expected I would agree to a booty call after not hearing from him for a year! I hadn’t really cared that he didn’t call me the next day after our encounter or anything — I was starting grad school, I was really busy, he lived in a different city and I had no interest in dating him. But calling me a year later and expecting sex was insulting. Guys, don ‘t do that.

      • @Sarah…

        I certainly understand you feelings.

        Here is the thing….. Ask yourself ( and please be honest)):
        If the sex was really great, how many women do you think would have taken him up on the offer?

        I would tend the believe the majority of women would have obliged him were they not in a relationship etc. Perhaps even the ones in a relationship were it not a serious one.

        JMO.

        • Actually, that night of sex was pretty good. I might have eventually had sex with him again, if he hadn’t been so crass about it.

      • Sorry I’ve accidentally posted parts of an intended post twice, and never the whole thing. Is there a way to delete comments on here?

      • wait, why didn’t YOU call him?

        • I wasn’t that interested, frankly. I stsrted grad school and had another relationship.

        • “wait, why didn’t YOU call him?”

          I’m glad that *you* have that attitude, Archy, but most men don’t. Most of the men I’ve known find a woman desperate, clingy, or lose interest due to no chase if a woman pursues them after a one night stand.

          • Touche. I’d rather her call, long as it’s the next day I wouldn’t care. 10 minutes after she leaves might be cute but I might be busy. Clingyness for me would be calling regularly but once call is fine.

      • I’m confused. Why is it insulting that this man, with whom you had had a casual sexual enounter, wanted/expected/requested another casual sexual encounter with you?

        • It was insulting to be treated as a booty call a full year later with no prior contact of any sort. I felt like he must have thought I was a complete slut with no standards whatsoever. Actually, having casual sex with him was totally out of character for me.

          • But you didn’t call him? He took a chance to see if you were still interested, not calling him may have indicated you didn’t care much about keeping contact and that you may be interested in a random booty call. What standards would you have as you didn’t call him after? You didn’t send him a message of your standards so why assume he thought you were a slut with no standards?

            • Well I didn’t go through the whole story. Maybe it will make more sense if I do. Like I said, he was a friend of my roomate’s. He was quite a bit older (22 vs 35). I met him a few times and he was totally into me but I wasn’t interested because I thought he was to old. In those days, 35 seemed positively ancient! So, anyway, it was the end of the summer and I was moving in a couple weeks to start grad school. A group of us went out drinking. He was all over me that night and I had to much to drink and yadda yadda yadda. :-) The next morning, when he left my place, he said, “I hope you have a great career” which sounded kind of like “have a nice life!” and I took it as a message he did not want to see me again. I mean, he didn’t say “hope school goes well” or “maybe we’ll run into each other again” it was “have a great career!” I was like, “huh.”

              So, I felt a little bad about myself because I was not in the habit of having drunken hookups. I’d only had 2 sexual relationships in 4 years of college. But I chalked it up to experience and went off to school. I had another relationship that year that ended. And so on and so forth.

              As I said, over a year later, he calls me out of the blue. He got my number from my old roommate. He wanted to see me right away. He was very insistent so I agreed to meet him for coffee. Almost immediately, I mean, within the first few minutes, he wanted to go back to my place. I said no, I wasn’t ready for that. My roomates were there. I told him we should talk first and get reacquainted. He became noticeably agitated. After about 45 min or an hour, he insisted again that we go to my place and I said no, I felt uncomfortable and I wanted to talk some more. He got up in a huff, left the coffee shop and I never heard from him again.

              So yeah I felt insulted because he thought I would just jump into the sack with him again after not hearing from him for a year, he obviously had no interest in getting to know me even slightly as a person, and he acted like a jerk.

    • very concerned about how they would feel if they found out. This guy was a risk-taker, and I didn’t know him well enough to trust that he would be discreet. In fact, he had been anything but discreet in the classroom setting. Maybe I didn’t trust myself either. My own discretion had given way to passion and lust. 2) I deeply wanted a loving partner in life, and this casual, but powerful connection brought up very difficult emotions about what I felt was missing in my life. I longed to have such a passionate connection with someone who truly loved me. I found myself crying at home after each of my meetings with him. I wasn’t crying over him, but rather over my divorce, my lost love, etc. Sex tended to bring all that up for me. Fun, right? At least I spared the guy all of that drama by breaking into tears later. 3) I had out-of-control jealousy issues that I had not yet worked through. I learned that this guy was in an open relationship (the first such person I had ever met). This didn’t bother me, surprisingly. But when I saw him coming on to other girls on campus, I felt enraged.  Strange, but true. 4) My religious beliefs at the time, and societal expectations,  created much guilt and shame around casual encounters of a sexual nature.  5) I feared that I was a sex addict, because my lust seemed more powerful than my common sense and decency at that time.

      Interestingly, though I regretted this fling in the months that followed that wild month of clandestine meetings, I do not regret it now. Through that experience, I learned much about myself, and it is one of the experiences that set me on a path to further self-discovery, healing, and happiness. 

      • @Jodi….

        He was a risk-taker…So, you did not trust him well enough to continue. But, you trusted him well enough to screw him..

        See, this is the thing I just don’t get with women. Nor do I wish to be honest. Here is a guy who is a total dud (you don’t know him well enough to trust), except for the sex I guess. You screwed his brains out (or he screwed yours out). But, for other men you demand all this rubbish.

        That’s why I will NEVER get back into anything other than an FWB arrangement. It simply is a shitty deal for most men, sexually. I say to hell with that crap. Treat me the same damn way you treated him!

        • Actually, I didn’t trust him at all. That’s why I mentioned that my lust overpowered my good judgment. Going off into some remote area with someone I didn’t even know wasn’t the smartest thing I ever did. Also, I don’t currently demand all that other rubbish from other men. I’ve come a long way from where I was when I had all those reasons to stop that remarkable fling. That’s why I don’t regret the encounter (other than perhaps thinking I should have taken better safety precautions). It set me on a path to eventually overcome many of those obstacles that were a part of my dysfunction at the time. I’m not saying my reasons were good. I’m just sharing what was in my head when I felt I couldn’t enjoy casual sex. Best wishes to you in finding some great FWB arrangements. And I mean that sincerely!

          • @Jodi…

            Thanks. I have two FWB arrangements at present. The sex is just awesome with each.

            It is such a contrast from my sexless marriage. Nor do I have earn sex with a whole lot of requirements (read rubbish). Just fun and sex with no drama.

          • @Jodi:
            Actually, I didn’t trust him at all.

            That’s pretty much what Jules implied. However, you seem to have missed the question that was embedded within.
            The original article puts up a long to-do-list for us men to adhere to, were we remotely interested in some kind of passion. And the article seems to be lauded by most women around. Then, however, we repeatedly get fed with stories about women having the hottest and most unforgettable sex with men who break every rule, both in the book and in the article!
            How do you think that we are suposed to react to that?

            • I said the same thing on Dr NerdLove’s blog on this article and guess what? I was shouted down by women. They simply refuse to accept the reality and move beyond giving us the advice along the lines of ” treat them like a human being first…”

              I dont think women will ever admit their contradictions and hypocrisies on this issue.

    • I had a fling with a guy I met in a college literature class when I was in my early thirties. We had never spoken outside of class, but he came on to me in a group setting by the way he gazed unflinchingly at me during steamy passages that were read aloud in the class. Uncharacteristically, I met him in the parking lot the minute he suggested it (on the way out of class one day), and we drove to a secluded place. The next few encounters were some of the hottest I’d known at that point in my life. He was incredible, sexually, but I deeply regretted the experience and ended the fun after a couple of weeks. My reasons (in order of importance) were 1) I had preteen children, and I was very concerned about how they would feel if they found out. This guy was a risk-taker, and I didn’t know him well enough to trust that he would be discreet. In fact, he had been anything but discreet in the classroom setting. Maybe I didn’t trust myself either. My own discretion had given way to passion and lust. 2) I deeply wanted a loving partner in life, and this casual, but powerful connection brought up very difficult emotions about what I felt was missing in my life. I longed to have such a passionate connection with someone who truly loved me. I found myself crying at home after each of my meetings with him. I wasn’t crying over him, but rather over my divorce, my lost love, etc. Sex tended to bring all that up for me. Fun, right? At least I spared the guy all of that drama by breaking into tears later. 3) I had out-of-control jealousy issues that I had not yet worked through. I learned that this guy was in an open relationship (the first such person I had ever met). This didn’t bother me, surprisingly. But when I saw him coming on to other girls on campus, I felt enraged.  Strange, but true. 4) My religious beliefs at the time, and societal expectations,  created much guilt and shame around casual encounters of a sexual nature.  5) I feared that I was a sex addict, because my lust seemed more powerful than my common sense and decency at that time.

      Interestingly, though I regretted this fling in the months that followed that wild month of clandestine meetings, I do not regret it now. Through that

      • Jodi

        90% of men wont get this level of passionate sex in their marriages.
        You are lucky. You women get both options. You get to have your fun, and then you will settle down as well.

        I just feel sorry for the guy you will end up settling down with. He will never measure up to the man you had the hot fling with. You will close your eyes during sex. Most likely he never got to have his fun.

        • @James….

          Yes. This is why marriage is such an absolutely shitty deal for most men sexually.

          Frankly, I just do not understand why men even want to bother with it anymore. I have had more sex (awesome and passionate sex) in the last two years through FWB arrangements than the entire 15+ years I was married.

          When it comes to sex and marriage, I am done!!!! It is flat out better to be a lover than a husband. I do not have trouble getting women. I am a confident, charming, and likable fellow. There are times when I feel like just going out and banging the crap out of everything I come across.

          However, that is really not me. I am not interested in a bunch of sex partners. I have two very attractive and highly sexual women I spend a lot of time with. This is the way I like it.

          • Jules

            You are in a minority among men. For most men, becoming financially secure and getting married is the only way if they hope to have a regular sex life. There is no other option.

            Its very likely in this age of sexual permissiveness, that the woman, the average guy settles down with, has had her fun with hot charming guys (who obviously wouldnt marry her). While he never got to have his fun.

            I abhor marriage, but sometimes, due to my need for sex and intimacy, Im forced to consider it. If sex was as easily available to men, as it is to women, I’m betting marriage will totally go out of favor with the vast majority of men.

            • @James…

              I am here to tell you (from experience) that getting married is not going to lead to a regular sex life. Quite the opposite to be honest. I got married at the age of 33. My ex wife was 32. We had one son and that was it. Both of us were successful professionals.

              Our son was born about 2 1/2 years after marriage. We dated for 2 years. About 2 years after our son’s birth, sex in our marriage went to hell. And no, it was not due to her having to care for an infant/toddler. He was in daycare while she worked part time! I cooked, cleaned, spent enormous amounts of time with our son….I bent of backwards to be the “new man.” Boy was it a major mistake.

              So, my advice to any man is not to look to marriage for sex. Terrible idea. I made this mistake. I refrained from permissive sex. Prior to marriage I had a mere 3 or 4 partners. I even went for several years without dating and sex. I was then and to this day a very well disciplined man who can easily shun the flirts and overtures of women (unless they are naked in front of me…)

              Yes, you are correct in that more than likely most women have already had their filing of hot sex with all the bozos. My only complaint with women is just why the hell don’t they actually marry these men whom they prefer to fuck? Women need to stop getting decent and good men and subjecting them to torment and misery. For some silly reason, it is as if many of these women just do not feel their husbands deserve regular sex.

              Often I hear or read how many married women complain that the sex in marriage is not good sex. Well, did not these women know this BEFORE they married the guy? Yes, they did. But, in their self centered minds, they simply thought they could just put the sex on the back burner. Totally ignoring the needs and desires of their husbands. Many married will deny this. But it is bullcrap. They, like in so many things, just like to PRETEND and not be honest about it.

              In my opinion, marriage is to be avoid at all costs. If you love sex as I do, then you are being delusional if you think you’re going to get regular sex in marriage.

              Seek out alternatives as I did to cope with this dysfunctional view of marriage many women have. You will quickly find that most women have greater appreciation for their lovers than their husbands, sexually.

              Unless their is a religious motivation, marriage is outdated and useless. It does not serve either sex well. It is great for kids I would argue. But, for men, I would agree with you.

              If women want to get married, then they need to start marrying the men they prefer to have sex with and leave the good and decent men the hell alone.

            • @James….

              Unfortunately, getting married will hot get most men a regular sex life. Quite the opposite. So, marriage is not a real option for getting regular sex. Nearly one third of all marriages in America are sexless. I would further argue that another 30-40% are lacking in robust or regular sex.

              Yes, by the time the average man settles down the women he will choose will likely have already had her best days sexually. Many of these men were not marriage material ever to her. They were just attractive men for dating and sex. Some were even undateable (if that is a word). Hence, only in 20-30% of marriages will you find a healthy and vibrant sex life.

              Monogamy does not work well for women. Women need novelty and variety. That novelty and variety is best supplied through an assortment of partners. I know of very very few marriages where the husband is getting regular sex and he is cheating….If he is doing so, he was a cheater when she married him. So, for him it is business as usual.

              There is an alternative. I chose the FWB route. There are a lot of women who are available for this arrangement. I view it as a hybrid of bootycalls and casual dating. In my case I have known my friends for years. However, we have been sexual only in the last two years or so.

              In the name of full disclosure, I am very anti marriage. I simply refuse to put my sexual health in the hands of one woman ever again.

              So, if you are interested in marriage, it is your choice. But, please do not expect to enjoy regular sex. There are studies to prove what I am telling you. Just Google the topic..

              The default you always hear is that the issue (no or little sex in marriage) is one of communication. That is totally false. It’s like saying communication is a cure for terrorism. The issue is much deeper.

            • I really hope your experience was the more rare situation for men, because that is depressing as hell. :(

            • I’ve never heard from any of my married friends… “our sex life is great and getting better!” Or, “this was the best choice I ever made.” Or anything in that vein of expressing general satisfaction with their sex life/married life/etc. Frustration and black humor is far more common.

            • “I abhor marriage, but sometimes, due to my need for sex and intimacy, Im forced to consider it.”

              A girlfriend is a better source of sex and intimacy than a wife. And if you choose wrong, end it and find a new girlfriend. It’s not such and easy choice once you’ve got a wife and kids… regardless of what the nuts on these boards say.

              It is flat out crazy to expect one person to fill so many roles in another person’s life. But we sign up as wives and husbands to do just that. If your wife is anything like mine, the role of “lover” will be low on her list of priorities.

            • Again, this is horribly depressing for me! i am completely realistic in thinking that getting married and having kids will decrease sex life and if you don’t think that then frankly you shouldn’t get married really, setting yourself up for a fall.

              But SEXLESS really ? really? – now sex is important of course, isn’t that emotional connection and companionship more important? is that why its so common?

              I try to take a realistic view on what my marriage will be like:

              relationship years: lots of fun, lots of sex, lots travelling, lots of experience :)
              Marriage: first few years lots of adjustments and fun again – the novelly will be high, after 3/4 years a big issue will happen or a baby will come along – sex will go down temporarily, but we will both know that it is temporary. Continue the pattern for the amount of kids that come. Peaks and troths my friend!

              After the kids grow up – this is when we can re discover ourselves in a sexual way, all the freakiest stuff you can imagine we can try and will. After another 10 years we will leave another huge issue that tests us massively – but then we start a ‘dating’ again and its all very cute. Then after a year long trip in retirement we get into swinging. which proves to be absolutely hilarious – then we get old and not having teeth becomes fun! ha ha

              I value sex quite highly and I’m sure other on here will say ‘just you wait’ ‘you’ll change your mind’ , the stress of kids, life blah blah – but I will NOT be putting up with a sexless marriage or see myself ever wanting one.

            • @NK..

              “relationship years: lots of fun, lots of sex, lots travelling, lots of experience”

              Yes, most women can enjoy lots of sex before marriage. This is why women have far more sex partners than men in a lifetime.

              But, this is also the cause of much sexual dysfunction in marriages. The man is expecting lots of sex. Often the woman has already had lots of sex. The man has had a mediocre sex life. Since the woman has “been there done that” it is an enormous let down and disappointment for most men when she lacks interest.

              My suggestion to men desiring marriage is to find a woman with limited sexual history and experience. That way they can grow sexually together and avoid sexual dysfunction in marriage.

              The women with lots of history need to marry the very men they enjoyed all the history. However, often these men are just undateable but make great lovers and sex partners. Instead, these women get men who have high expectations of sex, only to then impose sexual torment, frustration, and anguish on them.

              Question: Do you think your best years of sex are behind you? Do you honestly think you can enjoy the great sex and lovemaking with a husband as you have done with some of your past lovers? It is very very serious matter to ponder. Because, I really do not think many women with sexual history bring their best to the marriage.

              I own a small business. My tagline is: “The Best Is Yet to Come!” Sex in marriage should the same.

            • Jules.
              I disagree on trying to find women with limited sexual history/experience for longterm committed relationships.

              Since, as we argue here, sex is (on average) so much more available to women, there’s probably a reason why she hasn’t taken advantage of that availability. And the most probable reason is just a personal lacking of libido or sexual interest.
              And in that case, a low-key man, however enthusiastic and adaptable, will most probably not be able to bring her to any noticable levels of interest either.

            • @FlyingKal..

              “And the most probable reason is just a personal lacking of libido or sexual interest.”

              I am going to have to disagree. I will use my own history.

              I have always been a “horny dog.” LOL!! However, I never believed in casual sex, even though it was available to me. But, I was certainly interested in sex but only in the context of a serious relationship. Thus, before marriage (at age 32) I had a mere 4 partners. (Btw, I think my brother had that many in 9th grade!)

              But, yes there might be some women who have some personal issues or just low libido. So, it is a perspective to consider.

            • These messages portray to me that men ONLY get married to have a regular sex life. Surely you can be serious? isn’t it about more that that? otherwise, why bother?

              If you want children, bringing them up in home with both parents is the best strategy and best for their well fare. Don’t you want to have a family? companionship? emotional support? i know for a fact that men do crave this more as they get older.

              So your sex life decreases, isn’t that a small price to pay for the support of a good woman and a nice family? work harder the quality and not the quantity? or whatever?

              if this is truly what I have in store than I want as much information about preventing this as possible – I also think that due to my past a guy whose been around is the best idea to me being ‘around’. So he’s not thinking ‘i have had much sex with different women, my wife won’t have sex because she’s stressed/pregnant/ whatever, i need to go out there and experience this’. At least is he’s been there done that he can say – you know had a a lot of sex in the past so its cool.

              Again thought, sexless marriage sounds like hell to me.

            • @NK…

              “So your sex life decreases, isn’t that a small price to pay for the support of a good woman and a nice family? work harder the quality and not the quantity? or whatever?”

              HELL NO!!!!

              “i know for a fact that men do crave this more as they get older.”

              And how do you know this?

              Just how is it all good when the husband is damn miserable? Why does the sex have to decrease anyway? If the woman never found the guy sexually attractive, she should have left him the heck alone!!!

              You, a woman, I am assuming see the lack of sex as a “small price to pay…” Clearly, this is not how many married men see it.

            • NK – “isn’t that a small price to pay for the support of a good woman and a nice family?”

              You might think its a small price because being a female, its likely you’ve already had your best sex life prior to marriage, where you had passionate flings with a variety of attractive men.

              But think about a 30 yr old guy who has only had 2 gf’s in his life with whom he had a handful of awkward sex moments. Make no mistake, this is the case with the majority of young men.

              Thats why I said For men, regular, convenient sex is a huge motivation for getting married.

              I do wish sex was as easily available to me as it is to the common woman, so I could make a much better decision regarding whether I want marriage or not.

            • @NK:
              So your sex life decreases, isn’t that a small price to pay for the support of a good woman and a nice family? work harder the quality and not the quantity? or whatever?

              If a woman wants the support of a good man and a nice family, wouldn’t a regular and healthy sex life be a small “price” for her to pay to maintain that?
              Especially if her libido, as the article claims, is as high or even higher than the man’s? Then it shouldn’t really be a price at all. More of a benefit, really…

            • You presume they find their husbands sexually appealing and have lust for them.

            • “So your sex life decreases, isn’t that a small price to pay for the support of a good woman and a nice family? work harder the quality and not the quantity? or whatever?”
              In this stereotypical situation, the woman’s needs are met yet his aren’t. So it’s an unfair price to pay.

            • I also happen to think that people are creatures of habit.
              Those who have had lots of sex and lots of attention will expect or even take for granted that it will continue. (This goes for anything you like, food, drinks, games, etc, too. Think about it.)
              That means that those who are most used to a frequent and diversified sex life, and expect that situation to continue in a monogamous relationship. Should their expectations not be met, they are the ones who are most likely to go out and cheat, and not the other way around.

            • Nearly ALL of you have glossed over all the comments I made in my comment.

              None of you have specifically answered my question. Im going to assume that getting regular sex is the ONLY reason why you or the people your judging your comments on get married.

              I do not personally believe that I have had the best sex of my life. I have had lots of sex, some good, some bad, some ok. It was different with each person for different reasons.

              The most ‘intense’ sex I had was with a controlling, abusive, one minute boyfriend whom I went out with when I was depressed and vulnerable! that was possibly the unhealthiest relationship Ive ever been in but I was very down at the time.

              The best sex I honestly can say Ive had was with my 4.5 year long term relationship. Sincerely because we grew together. I fully expect to grow sexually with my husband and I do not want our future sex life to decrease, I understand that it probably will due to children and busy lives. I fully understand that as a wife I would need to be available sexually for my husband even at times when I’m not I’m not in the mood. and vice versa!

              But if I found out that my husband only got married for regular sex he wouldn’t be my husband anymore. Why doesn’t he just stay a single bachelor and work on his game and have lots of FWB, prostitutes, casual hook ups.

              I love how you all ignored my comments about my openness to swinging in later years or similar IF i can’t fulfil that purpose completely.

              Including myself, people only see what they want to see or believe. jeece

            • Can you possibly comprehend the possibility of some sort of middle ground?
              A more or less sexless relationship/marriage is at one end at the spectrum, marrying ONLY for sex is totally at the other, I assume anyone to be somewhere IN BETWEEN in their expectations of a relationship.

            • @NK…

              You’re right I did ignore you question. Sorry.

              No, people do not get married only for sex. I do believe some men do so. It is not the right thing to do just as getting married for money is not either….

              Sex IS the canary in the coal mine! When it dies, so does everything else in nearly 90% of cases. I am speaking only in terms of hetero. Don’t know how it works for gay couples as I am not gay.

              Lastly, as for the swinging thingy I am a non believer. Nor is poly something I am interested. It is just not me. But, if swinging is what you have in mind for your later years, please discuss with husband BEFORE getting married.

            • Sex isn’t the only thing in relationships, but it’s one of the top 3 most important things. No sex = a friendship for me. Why the hell would I want to be in a sexless, or low sex relationship? If she doesn’t wanna fuck me then obviously she’s not that into me so why settle? I’m sure many women would feel the same, who wants to be with someone who isn’t into you and shows it?

            • @FlyingKal…

              “Those who have had lots of sex and lots of attention will expect or even take for granted that it will continue…”

              Untrue. Do you party and drink like you did in college? Probably not.

              Same for sex. If a woman has enjoyed lots of sex, it is not reasonable for her to expect such in marriage. If that were the case, I do not think men would be in a huff about sex in marriage.

    • Exactly. I don’t know why so many people are upset. If you want casual sex with women, isn’t it good to know what many women are seeking in casual sex? Otherwise, how will you get any?
      It just seems like a lot of men don’t realise that what men want to do to a woman’s body isn’t necessarily what she wants you to do to her body. Therefore, she wants to scope you out enough to feel that you’re the type of person who can collaborate rather than just do what he wants, come right away, and leave her unsatisfied. In a great sexual encounter, both people get to have fun and get a good release from it. Sorry guys but the fact is, most women do not get sexually excited and reach orgasm as quickly and simply as men do. I wish we did. It would be a lot easier for all of us if we did. But we don’t. So we don’t just want to let any old person stick it in, because we can give ourselves more pleasure on our own. If we’re gonna risk involving someone else, then.. yes, we want to have pleasure and fun from it. Why wouldn’t we?
      There are plenty of women who want to have a fun time with a fun guy, but have very good reasons to be selective and not just take anybody with a penis. I know it’s more work, but it’s up to you to decide whether having fun with a woman before and after fucking her is pointless, in which case, get a prostitute.

  14. Dorine Moore says:

    I retract some of my post. I read Parts I and II one after the other. I found the research intriguing, and this is the part of the series that I loved. As I take a moment to reflect, I realize that I found many parts of Part II distasteful.

  15. I’d love a one night stand – a hook up and not a relationship. But I also don’t want to go to a stranger’s house and potentially be raped/kidnapped/killed or have him come over mine and do the same/seal my stuff. It’s unlikely, but I know people who have had horrific experiences with one night stands.

    Unfortunately, it;s not possible to tell if a man means you harm if you’ve only been chatting a few hours. You don’t get in cars with strangers in daylight, so why do so when it’s dark? The sad reality is, although women can steal your stuff, it’s a lot harder for a woman to overpower a man is you say no and he ignores you. It’s not a risk I want to take, no matter how ‘horny’ I am.

    • I think most people ( men and women ) have casual sex with people from their circle of friends or same class. Like college guys with guys. Workers with workers. Or with friend’s friend. With that even if you barely known each other, you know their background ( like college students, or accountant, etc ) and you know someone who knows him/her ( usually if she/he introduced by your friends ). That’s reduce the “strangers” level of casual hookup and reduce chance of him/her being the bad person, like rapist, murderer, kidnappers.

      Having casual sex or one night stand with complete stranger you dont know at all are mostly just one the movies. Its same for men or women.

      • People you know who are friends of friends can’t be a “bad person, like rapist”? That’s news to me.

        • I didn’t said it cant be. I said its reduce the chance being with bad person compare to picking up some stranger you don’t know at all.

            • I admit I’m wrong about the chance being with rapist with someone you know is lower, and I’m sorry to said that.

              But the sad reality is, this is what casual hookups usually like. Have sex with someone you know, even if its just your friend’s friend, but not complete strangers. This involved many things like attraction and lust. I’m still in college, and although I’m not really into casual sex, I know what casual sex scene in my college exactly like. Why those women not afraid being with bad person ? The reason is because those women also horny and want to have sex, especially if they found attractive/hot guy they lust for. Simple. Men and women are not really different when it comes to reason why they want to have casual sex. I’m not denying casual sex is not a risky deal for women, but from my experience, many women are horny enough to forget those risk. Most of casual sex happened in my college are between two people who both want it.

              Its the sad reality maybe most women here don’t want to admit it, that many women do want casual sex just like men, and the reason is not because of emotional reason, it just lust.

            • @John…

              You’re absolutely right! When it comes to casual sex, most women are like men; they want it because they are horny. The fundamental driver has zippy to do with emotion. It is pure lust.

              All she need is for him to be an attractive guy. Nothing else really matters.

              But, many women continue to pretend about this emotional thingy.

            • Women have this huge need to feel good about themselves.

            • completely agree!

              i am very honey 2 days before my period every month without fail and thats always when I hooked up with FWB.

              my issue recently has been that I am craving a meaningful relationship and feel that whilst I’m doing this I’m distracted from potentials.

            • AY Siu:

              That study doesn’t look very rigorous. For one thing a quote from the study states: “Half of all student victims do not define the incident as “rape.””

              This sounds very similar to the debunked Ms Magaizine rape study that found 1 in 4 women were raped. The kicker? It was researchers who determined the women had been “raped”.

              The women didn’t themselves qualify the incidents as rape and 50% of the women went on to continue dating their “attacker”.

              This is like a crime researcher stating I was carjacked because my daughter took the family car without permission.

              One of the problems is researchers assigning the tag of rape, whenever the woman was innebriated–even when the alcohol was self-served (i.e. the alcohol wasn’t foisted upon the women).

              When the incidents of researchers falsely claiming rape are taken out, it is shown in the Ms Magazine study that the incidence of rape actually falls to 1 in 24.

              Another issue: John may still be correct that hookups occuring with acquaintances or friends of friends who have bona fides with a woman’s friends or other credentials may still be safer than hooking up with a complete stranger just as he said.

              For instance, let’s suppose there are 10,000 hetero non-relationship man/woman hookup sex sessions at campus X in a given month and 9,700 are friends of friends (or acquaintance) hookups, and 300 are stranger hookups.

              Now let’s suppose that the friends hookups generate 10 rapes, and the stranger hookups generate 2 rapes. In total numbers the friends hookups will generate more rapes, but in terms of risk the stranger hookups would have a .6% chance of rape versus a .1% chance of rape in the friends hookup.

              Just saying that most rape victims know their assailant is meaningless, unless you are willing to drill down how much casual sex is A) relationship base, B) friends hookups, or C) stranger hookups.

              John is absolutely right that you can minimize your risks by getting bona fides from others (talking to former lovers about guy X to see what his threat level is). This works in all of human behavior from choosing mechanics to choosing doctors. Why wouldn’t this also work as a means for selecting mates for casual sex?

              By the way, rape is a human problem not a female problem. Men are just as much or more affected by rape as are women.

    • Thing is many casual hookups occur after drinking, and any strength a man had can easily be removed once he’s too drunk (same goes for women). I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of ALL sexual assault had alcohol as a factor.

    • Most of my successful hookups have involved going back to the woman’s house. This is because it is much safer for her, as her flatmates will be around to back her up if anything goes wrong.

      • As a woman I like my casual encounters to take place at a third party location (hotel or whatever). I’ve had enough experiences with men (and the occasional woman) who didn’t understand that just because I slept with them didn’t mean I wanted someone ongoing relationship or even friendship with them. Those folks have repeatedly shown up at my house. All in all I don’t even particularly mind going to the man (or other woman’s house) that much either as long as it’s in town.

        I think all women’s definition of safety will differ dependent on their personal histories and what they’re comfortable with. When I think safety I don’t necessarily think about my physical safety as in the guy is going to kidnap and rape me. I think more about I don’t want them to know my personal stuff (where I live, where I work and all that jazz). I’m not even particularly fond of handing out my phone number to people I have a casual encounter with. I’m just there to get laid. Not form lasting bonds with this person.

        • Kat

          they keep chasing you for repeat encounters. Not because they’ve fallen in love with you.

          Its difficult for men to find casual sex partners. So once they’ve got one, they want to make sure they can maintain the arrangement. It might be weeks, months or even years before they come across another woman willing to bang them.

          You women can pick a new guy every night.

          • I rarely if ever repeatedly see the same person for a casual encounter more than once unless it’s in the context of a swinger thing. The men I have with the bad boundaries tend to be the ones who get incredibly angry at me when I sleep with another man. I get the line a lot of “I thought we had something” too. And some of the really oblivious ones tend to get into that whole, “But maybe we can be together.”

            And yeah they could be saying what they think I want to hear. Even though on the front end I explicitly tell them this is a one night stand. I find it frustrating and creepy enough that I don’t want them to know where I live or what my phone number is. That’s my level of safety. I don’t want to deal with the harassment afterwards. They’re good for a fun time. I feel physically safe to have sex with them but the afterwards with the crap boundaries is what I have issues. I would imagine men who are into casual sex occasionally run into the same issue with them women they are with too who just don’t seem to get it.

            • @Kat, Not sure if you’ve said so, but do you tell them the deal beforehand? That it’s a one time thing, and why you don’t want them to know your address?

  16. Dr Nerdlove pushes the case that on average women want sex, casual or regular, and have just as high a libido as men have.
    The main reasons they don’t pursue this, we are told, is fear of retribution from society (slut-shaming), they need safety and stability, some confirmation of sexual prowess, and some perceived security regarding STD’s.

    The contradiction I see with this is: If all this is correct, then why do so many women enter longterm serious relationships with men that they are not sexually attracted to?

    • @FlyingKal

      “The contradiction I see with this is: If all this is correct, then why do so many women enter longterm serious relationships with men that they are not sexually attracted to?”

      Good question. This is one that is also dear to me. I was in a sexless marriage for over a decade. During one of our arguments, I asked my ex wife this question: “If you do not want to have sex with me, then why did you even bother marrying me?”

      Her answer: “Because I love you.”

      HA! I actually laughed and walked away. No woman who really loves a man is NOT going to have sex with him. Look at how many women are in relationships with thugs, bad boys….and are screwing their brains out. What is their answer as to why they are still in these relationships?

      Their Answer: “I love him.” And they do!!!

      Women are forever pinning for these type of men. Have you ever seen male groupies chasing after female athletes? Or men who show up at the trials of female serial killers? Or men who marry women inmates? No, No, & No. Exclusive domain of women.

      So, I think women in the long term relationships who do not find their partner sexually attractive never did from the beginning. They married these men to satisfy some other life goal such as family, kids, etc. Sex was not important. Worse yet, the husband is suppose to be perfectly happy with this bs!

      The merely PRETEND to find him sexually attractive. Just as my ex wife.

      • I hate these stories @Jules – I hate hate hate being told that I should settle for a marriage with someone where sex won’t happen much or that it will turn into sexlessness – Im sorry you had that experience that sounds proper sucky. I want to get married to a suitable guy in the future and I want to be hopeful that we will continue a healthy sex life throughout! and I’m not adverse to swinging later on lol!
        Those women that go after bad guys had issues – trying to get an unavailable man into a relationship – true intimacy issues that is.

  17. Look, us girls who want casual sex also want a minimal level of respect…or should I say reasonable level. When push comes to shove, you both know the score i.e just for the night/ if it wasn’t me it would be someone else/he does not just want to talk/make out. And whilst you’re both going into this knowing this isn’t exactly a ‘special’ union, you also both want the same thing-that is a good ol’ jolly rodgering and at the end of it all feeling good about yourself…I recently cut off my friend with benefits not because the sex was bad but because he was losing more and more respect for me as a person after every rendez-vous…never letting me spend the night and sometimes ditching me to meet up with his mates straight after-defs not proud of that ‘relationship’ let me tell you. It would be interested to see this article written inversely as a ‘how to’ for girls..

    • Stacey

      But isnt it great being a woman..one FWB leaves and another 5 are on standby.
      You can test 20 booty calls / fcuk buddies in 2 moths and keep 2-3 that best suit you as regular FWB’s.

      Most men cannot even experience the part where one or two of their FWB’s are ‘losing respect’ for them. They cannot get to that point even. So yeah, I really cant empathize with you.

      And you say he didnt let you send the night afterwards. Thats funny, because if most average guys do get successful in getting laid with a one night stand or FWB, its usually the woman who get to decide if the guy can stay or should fcuk off.

      He must be a really good looking, desirable guy that you want to spend the night with him after sex. Otherwise you’d have kicked him out yourself.

      • One thing I’m tired of hearing about is how women can fuck guys who are better looking than them. Sure, generally most women can easily have a penis put into their vagina by a wide vareity of men, but that alone is not enough for a woman to get off, as it is for a man. Also, it is much easier for a man to find a woman to marry him who is better looking than him. You almost never see a really attractive man in a serious relationship with a woman who isn’t also attractive, but you often see the other way around.
        So yes, women can sometimes get sex from men more attractive than them but that is not the main motivator for women to have sex, they’d rather fuck a less hot but more generous lover than a more hot but terrible in bed lover. women don’t get off as easily as men, so a really hot guy who is selfish in bed is pointless to a woman compared to a decent looking guy who knows how to pleasure the female body.

        • To men, these sound like excuses — reasons to make yourself into the victim of situation you clearly aren’t the victim of.

          Who women would ‘rather’ fuck is irrelevant to us. They can get sex, that is as far as it goes for us. When women say the kind of thing you’re saying, it’s like complaining to a starving man that all you have to eat is hamburgers when you’d rather have steak.

  18. Average NY Woman says:

    Mr. O’Malley: You got it again.

    Yes. Don’t mislead women into thinking that you want a relationship when you don’t, but don’t act like a predator, a john, or an uncaring SOB either.
    Yes, you should let her stay, or ask her if you can. Of course, this only works is you actually like her, and you make it very clear in your article that men should only be approaching women they actually are attracted to and like. Guys often treat women like semi-prostitutes when they are trying to pick them up, even when the man is very attracted to the woman. This makes it crystal clear that the man in question will have no respect for you if you give into casual sex with him. A lot of men Don’t respect women who have casual sex with them, even if they desperately wanted the woman in question.

    Most men do not want to initially admit that they do look down on women who have casual sex with men that they do not know well. They will admit it to you as a woman, however, if you get to be good platonic friends with them, or if you start dating them. Then when you ask the question about women and casual sex, most guys will say that they think women who do this don’t respect themselves. Why? Because most men view a woman who has had casual sex with a man as a woman who let herself be used for sex, even if she had a great time. Most men won’t admit how much they are still conditioned by as you say “societal messages regarding female sexuality and gender roles” which lead them to devalue women who hook-up casually. And even men who don’t feel that they look down on women who do casual, wouldn’t consider a casual hook-up girlfriend or wife material by virtue of their own hook up with the woman in question.

    However, this changes if the woman in question is a friend who is suddenly receptive to the benefits of sex with her male friend. I think that the fact that the man is not a stranger to the woman moves her out of the “easy” category in his mind, and that friendship itself has some elements of trust, caring, and respect which raises the value of the woman in his eyes.

    “Besides, if the two of you had a great time together, there’s nothing that says you can’t hook up again.” Great point! After the woman goes through all the trouble and the risk of screening and finding a good, safe casual partner who is a gentleman the night of, and the morning after, why not call on him again? LOL!

    • Average NY Woman, do you consider the Average NY man good enough for casual sex?

      You talk about ‘respect’ a lot making it sound as if the risk of losing respect is only factor that keeps women from engaging in casual sex more often. That respectfulness is the most important quality women seek when searching for casual sex. That lack of respectfulness is the only reason men find it difficult to obtain casual sex. That being respectful can do wonders for us ordinary men sex lives and make us instantly more attractive to women for casual sex.

      No mention of men’s looks, physique, confidence and sexual prowess. You women folk are very unforgiving in these areas to men when looking for casual sex. Its the small minority of attractive men you consider good enough, sexy/thrilling etc enough for casual sex, that you have these ‘respect’ issues with.

      Lets not forget you women arent so noble either. You dont intend to marry thee men you have casual sex with .There can be many reasons. You are trying to conflate a man’s preference to not marry a woman with a wild promiscuous past with lack of respect for her.

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