Noah Brand responds, point by point, to a recent Cracked article that provides relationship advice for some kind of disturbing alternate world.
Before I start getting mean, full disclosure: I greatly enjoy Cracked.com. It’s funny, it’s often informative in a factoidy kind of way, and it’s exhibit A for why you never read the bottom half of the internet. Just to drive this paragraph straight to Hipstertown (aka Portland) I even liked it when it was a magazine that bought whatever Mad had rejected that month.
Possibly my favorite thing about Cracked, though, is that it’s one of the best social justice ally sites on the web. They’re not explicitly didactic, but even looking beyond their deliberately anti-racist and anti-sexist articles, you get really nice, unstatedly decent things like the very even gender balance in this article on lousy apologies. They could have gone for the dumb, lazy joke about guys always having to apologize to women because hey, women, amirite? Instead they went for something that reflects actual human experience better than a sitcom writers’ room circa 1994. Also, I have to admire the level of hatesnark they bring to homophobic douchebags. (If you are offended by homophobic douchebags being insulted, I don’t know what to tell you. This may not be the site for you.)
That said, here’s why John Cheese’s recent “Five Things Men Do To Ruin Their Own Sex Lives” is ridiculous, sexist tripe. Not because of anything it says, but because of all the things it doesn’t say. All the things it doesn’t think need to be said, the natural, unstated assumptions that one can just take for granted and make jokes about because hey, everyone knows that’s how it works, right?
I think I need hardly say that all five of these assumptions are really, really creepy.
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Cheese’s Point #5: You Can’t Pressure Her into Sex
If you press for sex too much, even if you don’t think what you’re doing is all that harmful, it is absolutely going to enter that push-pull model, and the very idea of having sex with you is going to become repulsive to her. It’s Pavlovian in the respect that you’re training her to loathe your dick.
Well, shit, good point, John. It IS a problem when someone keeps needling and bothering their partner for something, and hey, your point about the push-pull model is well taken. Say, how did you illustrate that model?
Creepy Assumption #1: Women Don’t Want Sex
Think about it in terms of lasagna. You both love it, and you happen to make a pretty damn mean one. So one day, she asks you to make her one, and you’re like “Hell yes, I’ll make you a lasagna. I am the Whitesnake of lasagna, baby!” Then the next day, she asks again. And every day after that until you finally snap…
So, the gender-swapped equivalent to sex is… food. Just as men desire sex and find producing food to be a chore, so too do women desire food and Jesus fucking Christ, John Cheese. Do I even need to keep unpacking how disturbing it is to assume that sex is some big favor a woman does when she’s in a particularly good mood? Presumably on the planet where that’s true, women only masturbate when they’re trying to do their vibrator a solid, because hey, it works hard.
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Cheese’s Point #4: Make Sure You’re Not Disgusting
Knowing all that, try to estimate how many times she’d be willing to go back to that spot if she knew that every time she did, she’d be met with the aroma of shitsweat.
No matter what number you came up with, it was too high.
John makes an eloquent case for maintaining one’s no-no square in a clean, well-scrubbed state, a no-funk zone, at least when one is trying to get a little something going. This is, again, basically decent advice. Or would be if he’d managed to get through a whole paragraph without a paralyzingly sexist assumption just taken for granted like it ain’t no thing.
Creepy Assumption #2: Girls Don’t Fart
Add in the fact that we’re guys, and we love to play the occasional butthole trumpet against the faux leather of our computer chairs and giggle, and we’re pretty much always working up a good case of butt sauce.
Holy shit, dude, you actually just came out and said that. The most cheesy, outdated, point-at-it-and-laugh example of how sexist attitudes place women on impossible, imaginary pedestals, and you straight up took it for granted as a reasonable basis for contrasting humor.
You know, if he’s managed to get this old without finding out that women fart, I almost don’t want to tell him. Can someone else take this one?
Thanks, Caroline.
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Cheese’s Point #3: Your Attitude Could Be Your Downfall
But there are those days when a bad mood can just stretch on forever, and nothing seems to help ease it. From the time you get home until your head hits the pillow, everything just sucks, and you either make it known vocally or you sulk around the house and tell the story with your body language. Like the way you keep slamming cabinet doors or giving your cat the finger for no reason.
So the day finally winds down, and you turn off the lights and slide into bed. You feel your partner’s butt pressed up against your still angry dong, and it hits you: “Man, a quickie right before I pass out in a whimpering, pouting heap would do me wonders.” And right there is the problem. You’re thinking of her vagina as your own personal Prozac.
Preach it, John! It is way too easy to think only of our own rotten moods, and not of how we’re coming off to those we love most. Right there with you, buddy.
Creepy Assumption #3: Bitches Be Crazy
Maybe you smile a little more than normal when speaking to the waitress. Or perhaps you laugh at something the cashier says, even though both you and your girlfriend know you’d never find that funny. In your mind, you’re just being polite. But to your girlfriend, you’re flirting. Even if she doesn’t go that far, she can easily see you being saccharine sweet to another woman and instantly reverting back to your normal old self with her, and it’s insulting.
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Cheese’s Point #2: Never Assume Women Have the Same Turn-Ons as You
No, it’s not enough to have a good body and a nice car. Even if you’re with a woman who’s shallow enough to fall for that shit right out of the gates, the longer she’s with you, the less all of that superficial bullshit means. And no, contrary to the ratings machines of pop culture television, the average woman doesn’t fall for self-centered douchebags who constantly talk about how awesome they look. At least not the ones I’ve known.
First off, he’s conflating “turn-on” with “relationship fodder” here. Let’s face it, what we look for in a casual sex encounter and what we look for in a long-term partner can be two very different lists. Of course, on Cheeseworld, women don’t want or pursue casual sex, ever. I have no idea how all this heterosexual and lesbian casual sex keeps happening. Well, I do, but apparently John Cheese doesn’t.
Creepy Assumption #4: Men Are All Shallow
For the most part, men are a pretty easy machine to start. Show us some boobs, and we’re good to go.
Okay, I’ll admit, he actually stated that one out loud in so many words. It’s not an unstated assumption, it’s a stated one. All that advice about how women aren’t shallow and superficial and impressed by narcissistic bullshit? He’s presenting that as a contrast to how men experience attraction.
I have to say, this idea that male sexuality is simple, stupid, and uniform is actually one of the most offensive to me personally. It’s very pervasive in our culture, and it’s utter horseshit. It turns men into drooling cartoons with barely-functioning brains, and it tells women that yes, their looks really are all that matter. Like we didn’t have enough shit in our culture pushing that message. Want to impress a guy with your wit, your style, your intellect, your passion? You’re wasting your time, honey. Show him some boobs, and he’s good to go.
Man, if I believed that were true, I wouldn’t be able to imagine why anyone would want to sleep with men. Apparently we’re idiots.
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Cheese’s Point #1: Don’t Expect Her To Be A Porn Star
The woman you’re with wants to please you, because that’s how people behave in a relationship. But she doesn’t want to do it by becoming something she’s not. If she’s into that sort of thing, fine. But even then, when she does act out those fantasies, she has to be doing it with you and not for you. Otherwise, they’re going to start killing her mood more frequently until she finally has enough and the fantasies are all you have left.
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Oh, honey. I can’t even. This entire point is an extended rehash of Gail Dines’ idea that only men watch porn, and it makes them crave ever-more-perverse sexual fantasies, which is a terrible, terrible imposition on women. Because women, you see, don’t like porn, don’t have fetishes, and aren’t into kinky shit.
Creepy Assumption #5: Women Aren’t Freaky
Let me enlighten your ignorant vanilla ass a wee little bit, Mr. Cheese. (None of those links are technically NSFW. They are, however, utterly filthy.) Those are all confessions by anonymous women about some of their more esoteric and specific sexual fantasies. Now, some would argue that since every one of those examples comes from one of two communities, I’m just cherry-picking data. That would be missing the point. I didn’t want to spend a lot of time refuting Mr. Cheese’s comically wrong misconception, so I just thought of the first two communities to come to mind and grabbed the first batch of appropriate examples I could find in ten minutes. And still I had to add a bunch of unnecessary words to the first sentence in this paragraph, because otherwise there wasn’t room. If I’d felt like spending more than ten minutes, believe me, Mr. Cheese would only get wronger.
In a certain sense, this creepy assumption is a subset of Creepy Assumption #1. There’s this weird idea that kinky sex is sort of like vanilla sex but more so, somehow further along the Sexy Spectrum. And since women don’t like sex, they obviously can’t like Secret Double Extra Sex, right? Nope, women just like normal, vanilla, boring stuff. Like Cardassians.
Now, some of the ladies reading this might object that they, personally, do not want to fuck Cardassians. This is true! And it leads me to our bonus creepy assumption:
Creepy Assumption #6: Men And Women Are Two Homogenous Groups
Reread Cheese’s article. Note all the places where he says “Of course, women’s personalities vary a great deal” or “Not everyone has the same tastes” or “My experience may not be typical of all men ever”. Or if you’re in a hurry, I’ll spoil it: he never says any of that. All men are identical, having the same drives, tastes, and response patterns. All women are likewise a single hivemind with a single uniform personality. Presumably sex on Cheeseworld is some sort of Borg porn. (For the record, BorgPorn.com is currently owned by this NSFW lady, whose fetishes also do not exist on Cheeseworld.)
Cheese is far from the only one guilty of this, of course. It’s all over any form of writing that touches on gender issues, because reflecting the rich diversity of human experience is way harder than just going “Men, amirite?” or “Chicks, man.” Nevertheless, if you assume that people are varied, different, and complex, none of Cheese’s advice makes sense.
Cracked, try harder. You’re doing pretty well at being the good guys in our evolving culture. In terms of our improving understandings of race, culture, sexuality, and common human decency, you’re working hard to be the good guys, and that’s laudable. Now put a little more effort into not being the dumb guys.
Sorry to break this to you Noah, Cracked doesn’t consider men to be included within social justice. It has made a number of attack articles on men’s rights and the men’s rights movement.
The biggest problem I have with John Cheese’s article is that I believe that when two people in a committed relationship have different libidos, it is important for both people to compromise. Not just in frequency, but in what acts they’ll do also. I’m not suggesting that anyone do anything that they aren’t willing to do or that anyone should stay in a relationship where their needs are being ignored by their partner. In some cases sex could be a deal breaker in a relationship and that’s OK too. Wish the other person well and find someone more compatible. What… Read more »
Maybe because I’m half asian and live in Asia (S. Korea), I have a hard time connecting with what most women here said about their dating experience. Most men push sex early in relationship, most men want casual sex and afraid of commitment. Is that what men do in USA and Europe? In my experience, and what i hear from my guy and girl friends, most men don’t do that. Hell here casual sex is not really big. Some people do it, but most people do not. I’m serious, i feel disconnected. My dating experience most of the time are… Read more »
I wouldn’t go more than a month or 2 in a relationship without any form of sex unless there is a good reason (illness, childbirth, long distance). I don’t wanna get tied down too early either, by that I mean married, I need time to build trust enough for marriage as that is a huge step and a pledge to spend your life together. Not to mention the cost of marriage is really high here, $25k+ and that is also a worry. I don’t feel comfortable moving too fast in a relationship though, so sex might need a few days,… Read more »
“I may wait longer but hopefully not too much longer, and I hope we can at least do something sexual like mutual masturbation.”
That’s probably one of the problems. People equate sex with PIV and there are other ways to have sex. People need to learn to compromise with their partners and that requires communication.
Yep, it’s your responsibilities to each other to try ensure both your needs are met. Lying next to your partner naked if you aren’t in the mood can be a great help.
I love the Bodyform ad. The blue-colored water was a nice touch. I always thought if your period is coming out blue, then you have much bigger issues than leakage or absorption. You should see a doctor immediately.
My main problem with John Cheese’s article is that it still fail to recognize women sexual agency and subjectivity. Is it so hard for some people to realize that? Maybe, she did that awesome thing you like because you did that awesome thing she like. It’s like I can’t have desires and preferences. It’s like i can’t LOVE anal sex, while hating to be on the receiving end of it. I’m a freak. I LOVE pegging men. You don’t like it? Then why are you still talking to me? Still trying to get me to have sex with you even… Read more »
The original ‘Five things’ is actually excellent advice for men, if by “men” you mean completely clueless 16 year old illiterate cretins who learned about sex from really bad websites. (Okay, so not necessarily a small group of people, but hardly representative.) Excellent for some young men by the age of 18, maybe. For most men? Hardly even chuckle-worthy.
Is it just me, or are Americans some of the biggest prudes in the Western world?
Yes, Americans most certainly are. More power to them with all that noise…
I’m a man, half asian ( east asian ) , muslim, muscular ( not freakishly big like bodybuilder, but more like fitness model, actually i’m a fitness model ) . Yeah, everytime i go to internet probably i would see a generalization towards me. Man = only want to have casual sex, don’t want a relationship, do not have emotion, etc. I don’t really like casual sex, I want relationship , I’m never pushed my partner to have sex with me, I have emotion, i even have cried during and after sex, i like foreplay, cuddling . Asian = good… Read more »
Hahaha, this is so raw and passionate Noah but you do speak truth. Thankyou for exposing this. I think its sad how such poorly informed information is being spewed out to us men from every corner of the media. It only serves to de-man-ize us more making us more confused about ourselves, our desires and our nature. It’s hard enough dealing with our sexuality without feeling guilty about our desires when fellow men tell us how neanderthal we are when compared to women. I’m grateful for the Good Man Project which continues to expose and inform and teach. Thankyou again.
“Presumably on the planet where that’s true, women only masturbate when they’re trying to do their vibrator a solid, because hey, it works hard.”
LOL, thank you
Actually, being pressured for sex as quick as possible is a common problem I found when dating. I find men rather have sex with me as quick as possible and take a long time to actually get to know me to see if I am “relationship material”. This is a very common problem I’ve experienced with men and from conversations with other women, I know they’ve experienced the same And no, women don’t have sex as a “favor” all the time but we do have to be feeling good and happy to have it. Most women won’t be in the… Read more »
“I find men rather have sex with me as quick as possible and take a long time to actually get to know me to see if I am “relationship material”.” I wonder how much the stereotype “Women need love to have sex, and men need sex to find love” applies? It seems there’s a clear difference in the level of commitment each gender is willing to give, judging by your post I’m guessing men are commitment shy to dating, women are commitment shy to having sex? From what I’ve read n seen, it seems men pressure women into sex, and… Read more »
I don’t like to have sex with a guy right away because I have learned from experience that casual sex is usually not that great for me. It just takes me awhile to relax and feel good about having sex with a new person. That’s not true of all women, but I’ve certainly heard a lot of women say that sex on the first date, no-strings-attached sex etc. is disappointing. So it seems to be true of many women. The stigma against being “slutty” has certainly influenced me as well, but I have to say, at this point in my… Read more »
I can have sex fairly early on in the relationship as long as she seems genuine and not a threat. Maybe guys value sexual compatibility more and thus more of them would prefer to have sex before getting too serious in the relationship. I know I for one would be very disappointed if we couldn’t have oral sex, and as much as women can be awesome I needs me oral sex (both give n receive) along with decent sexual compatibility. I wouldn’t wait 6 months for sex though, that’s too long, but a week, maybe a few weeks could be… Read more »
I’m not talking about waiting 6 months, that would make ME go crazy, ha ha, but at least a few dates. Around a month, probably.
“That’s not true of all women, but I’ve certainly heard a lot of women say that sex on the first date, no-strings-attached sex etc. is disappointing”
I wonder how much of that is due to lack of communication. He probably doesn’t know what she likes and she probably doesn’t feel comfortable telling him.
hear, hear!
I don’t pressure men into relationships. I am fine with things being casual and not demanding anything of a man he isn’t ready to give on a relationships scale. I have found that even though I hold this attitude, a lot of men still persist on pushing sex as quick and early as possilbe. They don’t respect my desire to get to know them without sex even though I totally respect their desire to get to know me without a commitment. If things are “casual”, that’s fine. But please guys, don’t assume that when things are “casual” that means “casual… Read more »
Do you ever ask the man out and do you ever pay for dates? Some guys might feel strung along and what something tangible for their emotional (asking a woman out) and financial (paying for the date) investment. If you did those things on occasion, it might convince the men you date that they could wait on sex. I have a friend who was a player. He dated and bedded a host of beautiful women. The woman he fell in love with and married isn’t someone conventionally attractive, but was the only woman to ask him out and pay for… Read more »
It’s disturbing how much the dating rituals of “traditional” gender roles parallel prostitution.
Yep. It’s too bad that dating format is still so socialized in the US. I hate it that there is this connection between paying for a date and sex when it would be better for everyone if that weren’t the case–the awkwardness with expectations and feelings of pressure or obligation.
I have asked men out in the past…including my future husband and fellow impoverished grad student! We went to a fancy restaurant in town and had a great time…
I had been to that same restaurant before with someone else…it is so much better when it is with someone you really love!
Hi John, none of the men I ever asked out accepted. So while the fairy tale happened for your friend who dated many beautiful women, for many of us, it doesn’t. I am sure though that he settled down with her for more reasons then just her asking him out and paying for a date. I also know for myself that I prefer to be with the kind of man that will ask me out. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. For other women, being the aggressor will work. But being aggressive isn’t in my nature and… Read more »
It’s hard work to earn money, so it’s important. “But I do understand a man wanting to get to know a woman before he commits to her. I just don’t get why men pressure for sex much faster then they actually want to really get to know you and commit. They want sex from you before they want to make any kind of real promise to you.” For me part of getting to know someone in a romantic sex INVOLVES sex, before that is some basic talk of course. He’s also committing to her, accepting someone and wanting them in… Read more »
Wanting to sleep with someone is not a commitment of any kind. It’s a desire. You are not promising anything by sleeping with someone. Which is why many men, in my experience, will want to take it slow regarding the actual relationship but will push for sex very quickly. They don’t want to make any kind of real promises. I am fine with a man wanting to take it slow and not make promises before he is ready. No problem. But then lets extend that to sex as well. Lets not claim that sex needs to happen first or that… Read more »
Well that may work for you but I find that limiting to wait. I’d rather do the emotional, and sexual learning side by side. I find they both work hand in hand and make each other more powerful.
Archy, nicely put, and that’s the way I’d feel about it if I were dating now. Clearly different people have different wishes on this, but I’m pretty sure I’d be less than pleased if I were dating someone who wanted to wait more than probably 2 dates before engaging in sexual activity. More than 3 and I’d probably encourage them to find someone whose value system and sexuality were more compatible with theirs–without rancor or thinking there was anything wrong with the guy, just that we were too different in that department. If I didn’t know the person _at all_… Read more »
“I am sure though that he settled down with her for more reasons then just her asking him out and paying for a date.” You’re right. That was what caused him to give her a chance. If it wasn’t for that, I don’t think he would have given her another look. He ultimately fell in love with her kindness. She changed him a lot. He was a former boxer and gang member who was so respected that he walked in and out of one of the most feared gangs. People are usually jumped (forced to absorb a beating) in or… Read more »
Yes, I do think people miss what can be right under their nose. But I’m not sure I would feel good being with a guy who wouldn’t have given me a second look otherwise. But I am glad it worked out for your friend. Funny that she saw his worth and he didn’t see hers at first. Frankly, I see this regularly with men from a female perspective and I am sure you see it regularly among women from a male perspective. Although, I often wonder how many men settle for a less conventionally attractive woman but do still pursue… Read more »
The question of who pays for a drink or a date has been very context-dependent for me. While I was in college and grad school, with the people I hung out with paying was generally pretty equal, and I thought that worked very well–it made me feel like I was on an equal footing in the relationship. It didn’t make sense to me that one person would always pay and the other would not, when we generally had similar levels of funds available to us. I prefer this model and do not expect the “traditional” one where the guy usually… Read more »
Please take this as legitimate curiosity, not criticism, as I find your friends behavior odd, based on my own and that of my friends. When your guy friends were getting you drinks, was it just you, or were they including you in a round of drinks? When you reciprocated, was it just for then, or was it rounds of drinks? As a man, when I’m doing well for myself, I like to be generous, and sometimes will offer to pay for friends meals (particularly if they are in a low spot themselves). This generosity is generally reciprocated when the positions… Read more »
No worries–I take it as legitimate curiosity. It’s a situation I find odd myself and clearly still haven’t really puzzled out. I’m in my 40s and they guys I’m talking about are somewhere between mid-30s and probably very early 50s, so generation may have something to do with it. This occurs to me at hobby conventions I go to where there are a lot more men than women, and the women who are there are often there with a boyfriend or husband. (I’m married but go alone.) It’s not usually part of buying a round of drinks for a group,… Read more »
“I get the feeling the guys thinks it’s unmanly to accept.” If it’s a one on one interaction, then I would suspect that it is more akin to an open, and public, rejection that he is reacting to, then it being unmanly to accept. You’ve clearly picked up that it “could” be seen as hitting on you, even if you don’t think it is. I would recommend that, in a one on one case, when a guy offers to buy you a drink, and you aren’t accepting it as an advance, make clear the accepting is conditional on you getting… Read more »
“make clear the accepting is conditional on you getting the next round (“sure, but I’ve got the next round”)” Nice–I think that will help, thanks. I was never part of that kind of bar scene when I was younger so it’s weird figuring it out now. I should probably mention that most of these guys really aren’t hitting on me (have made no subsequent advance). If I think that’s the frame of mind they are in, I usually manage to find a way to avoid or graciously not accept a drink offer. My original point was more to Jon Anderson,… Read more »
I think drinks and meals are a little different. I’ve never offered to buy a friend a drink, it’s ether an entire round for everyone, or just my own. I have offered to cover friends meals when they are down. I don’t know, maybe drinks are more personal? Regardless, I think the difference largely resides in two factors: 1: offering to pay for just your half of a meal when they have offered to pay the full bill can come off as a rejection (If you need me to explain further, let me know). That could be seen as off-putting.… Read more »
PS. Forgot. Never was one for the club scene ether. My advice regarding drinks is largely personal perspective and the less common pub night. So YMMV
Meals haven’t been an issue for me in the situation I’m describing. We all buy our own meals, and offers to pay for others’ meals aren’t made, at least that I’ve noticed. From what you’ve said, now I’m more confused about the drinks. I think I’ll just continue what I’ve been doing and make sure I’m helping provide drinks for the gang when we’re not in the bar area. I’m not sure what it was I described with regard to “there will be men out there that are precisely what you describe”? I don’t think anyone’s being oppressive to me… Read more »
“I’m not sure what it was I described with regard to “there will be men out there that are precisely what you describe”? ” “I get the feeling the guys thinks it’s unmanly to accept.” These types do exist, I just think they are more rare than is made out to be. That any rebuff of an offer to pay is presumed to be this type, when other factors can exist. Not sure what I said to confuse you regarding drinks, but I offered my perspective. You are free to take it or leave it, but nothing will change if… Read more »
“I get the feeling the guys thinks it’s unmanly to accept.” “”These types do exist, I just think they are more rare than is made out to be. That any rebuff of an offer to pay is presumed to be this type, when other factors can exist.”” >Ah–I didn’t make that clear. That was one guess on my part but really I have no idea. “Not sure what I said to confuse you regarding drinks” >You said “I’ve never offered to buy a friend a drink, it’s ether an entire round for everyone, or just my own.” If guys don’t… Read more »
For me, 6 months is way way way too long. If they can’t trust me after a month to have sex then is it really going to be worth it? Time is finite, I don’t have 6+ months to waste on a relationship without sex, something that may or may not leave us sexually compatible. I’d rather know far sooner whether compatibility is there. I don’t mind if others want to wait, but for me personally it feels more like a friendship than a relationship. If you can’t get to know someone enough after a few weeks of dating then… Read more »
I think that’s up for each individual to decide and we shouldn’t shame people for it. Waiting 6 months isn’t good for you. No worries. Then you know what to do if you meet a woman that wants to wait that long. I am sure she will even agree since your goals are different. But I don’t think it’s fair to self-describe other people’s relationships if they simply don’t fit into what you would define as a relationship. You don’t see a reason to wait any longer, again, that’s okay. Others might, no need to imply that that choice is… Read more »
I should emphasize more this is only applicable to me personally, dunno if that came through clearly. Others need longer of course because we all have differing levels of trust, desires to meet, etc. I didn’t mean to say or imply that it’s crazy for others to take that long, just that for me it feels like a glorified friendship if it doesn’t involve sex or intimacy (kissing, sex, flirting, etc).
“Why are men more likely able to commit n trust women for sex earlier than women can for men?”
Because sex isn’t about commitment or trust for me. Sex is for fun. I basically have to trust that she doesn’t have HIV or herpes, or some strange desire to be impregnated by a stranger. All I’m committing to is trying to have us both enjoy things.
Archy, “Why are men more likely able to commit n trust women for sex earlier than women can for men?” The answer is simple. Men just want sex more. A lot of men have a biological urge to have a lot of sex with whoever. They’re just not as into getting to know people as the average woman. For me, sex doesn’t have much have anything to do with commitment or trust. Commitment? Most guys just leave after they get what they want. Trust? Sex is simply a physical act, and I wouldnt read anything more into it most of… Read more »
It’s a commitment past what you get with friendship. So some women will wait longer because they want to be sure the man wants her for her and not just a quick root, but in turn if they wait too long they will chase off otherwise interested men because they don’t want to wait. Such a tricky game to balance. I guess casual sex for women might be seen as a waste of time if he doesn’t hang around, and on the other hand dating without sex can also be seen as a waste of time because she can simply… Read more »
Archy: “It’s a commitment past what you get with friendship.” I wouldn’t say sex is a commitment past friendship most of the time. Sex is just sex most of the time. If two friends started having sex, most of the time it doesn’t mean anything, except now they are friends with benefits. I guess casual sex for women might be seen as a waste of time if he doesn’t hang around Well, for me it is a waste of time. I’m a busy lady, and I dont have time to be bothered by someone who isn’t serious about me. He… Read more »
It’s not really fair if women’s sexual needs are met in a relationship but his aren’t because his are higher. Should the compromise be that if he doesn’t want as much cuddling n other forms of intimacy he should dole it out like low libido women would do for sex? Simply saying men n women are different doesn’t accomplish much, how do they cope with the differing sex drives? Men will feel like they aren’t getting enough, women might feel pressured, boosting one to match the other is probably the way to go unless they make something to suppress a… Read more »
“Archy”
I guess the alternative is allowing the men to look at porn but we know how that works out:P
But a lot of guys would look at porn regardless. There would always be a reason. If it wasn’t “I dont get enough sex” it would be something else.
There’s really no satisfying some mens sexual appetites. Making women hornier isn’t going to help at all. The issue isn’t that the wife isn’t horny enough. Sometimes men just want a different women.
. . . Kinda thought the #1 creepy assumption behind #5 was that it would be fine to pressure a partner into sex if it didn’t backfire?
Thank you for the farting thing. Personally, when I like a guy, I don’t care if he skips a shower, sweats, burps, farts, etc. Of course you can go too far, but I don’t get the obsession with being perfect and not understanding basic human functions. People fart. People have sweaty balls. I also want a guy around whom I can fart, burp, pee, smell a little, etc.
I’m with you on the “Everybody farts and that’s OK” thing. I just think sometimes men forget that when a woman is mid-BJ, she is typically breathing primarily through her nose, a nose that will be in very close proximity to the source of the Stink. Checking on your stink level, and possibly scrubbing up if you *do* stink, is just a nice thing to do for the woman who’s going to be spending some time down there. Even stink issues aside, breathing through the nose presents other complications. If a woman is stuffy/runny/drippy from a head cold or allergies,… Read more »
And to be fair, women should check their stink levels too! We’re not immune to stink. Although i will say, I don’t think most women can rival the stink that most men can build up over the course of a day. But we’re generally not pristine either, and checking on the stink level before oral is a courteous thing for partners of both sexes to do for each other.
i aggree completaly i know in my my case iv had a few lady,s to whom it was hmmmm hunny how about shower sex tonight ??? reality i just want some hot water and soap befor i dive on that and vice versa befor we get down to seriouse bussness
The vagina probably releases more scent than a penis n balls do though. Men’s stink will be more from sweat ducts, but women’s can be from bacteria from the vagina, poor hygeine, etc and probably have more chance of releasing that scent than a penis does. Though either way, keep your stuff clean:P
People should be more mindful of their breath, last person that kissed me had saliva that made me dry reach. I don’t really like kissing at the moment until I hopefully find someone with better oral hygiene, that breath traumatized me!
I dont know much about women, but for men a lot of the time the smell comes from the butt. If I’m going down on a guy, my nose is in that region. Some guys want analingus performed on them, and I swear the ones who smell the worst want analingus the most.
I really hope I smell good down there. I use wipes and shower religiously.
I hear that most guys would prefer to give a woman oral than receive it and count myself among them. An interesting compromise would be for a woman to let her man give her oral instead, but it seems that some women are too embarrassed to allow it.
One of my biggest inhibitions about receiving oral is that I worry it smells bad “down there”. My boyfriend loves to do it though, and I admit it feels really good, so I usually wash myself in that area before we have sex. It sounds a little OCD but it lets me relax and enjoy myself.
I have to question your animosity toward John Cheese. One of the top writers on the website and gives some unconventional advice.
Yeah #4 is completely on the mark. In fact, assuming that men are shallow is where most of the other stupid assumptions come from.
OK, I enjoyed the first 4, but I’m seriously not sure what point you’re trying to make with the links under “Creepy Assumption #5: Women Aren’t Freaky“?
Did you miss the But she doesn’t want to do it by becoming something she’s not. part in the middle?
Agree with you on 1-4 and partially on 5. It’s true that some women are freaky/kinky, but it’s also true that some women aren’t. That’s true of men too. I think his point about pressuring someone to be someone they aren’t sexually is spot on. Maybe the correct point is, don’t assume all women (or men) want to do kinky shit and don’t assume they don’t. Maybe try finding out what they like? Also, it’s true that many women are people pleasers and may do stuff in bed only because the man wants to. I have been guilty of that… Read more »
The author here has misrepresented the original article. It DOES advise that you find out what your partner likes and make sure not to impose things she doesn’t on her. He’s really made it sound very different than it is.
I agree, but the original article was about men sabotaging their sex lives. I’m not sure that advising men to not seek what they want isn’t already sabotaging their sex lives.
I think if you spend a lot of time on the Internet you can start to believe that absolutely everyone has fetishes or is into BDSM or whatever and that’s just not the case.
Ha! So true! 🙂
dear sara in my case i try very hard to please the lady i am with so i would hope and expect she dose the same for me however you bring out a very valid point as far as a women being resentfulll of pleaseing thire man however i have allwas thought it go,s both way,s however the older i get i find that that is not true that for the most part women think only of thm selve,s so for me that mean,s haveing to find younger female lover,s who as of yet have not been jaded and are… Read more »
I enjoyed the original article, in spite of being a woman, and I really disagree with a few of these criticisms. CA#1 is just a misunderstanding. He doesn’t say women don’t like sex. He says, constantly nagging for sex, to the detriment of other bonding (like chats), makes it seem like a chore. In his example, both parties love lasagne at first, it’s only when one partner is TOO demanding of constant lasagne that it becomes a problem. He definitely doesn’t say women don’t like sex. He’s just pointing out that people need to be in the right mood to… Read more »
He generalizes women also. Although most women probably don’t like the stink, I knew one woman (a rather attractive one at that), who preferred the stink. She liked scruffy looking guys who smelled of sweat.
I agree, John Anderson. I’m a lot like the woman you know. If I like a guy, stink is not really a problem. Sure, there’s some threshold, but I like the smells of a man. I’ve been known to request to smell the men I’ve dated right before they shower.
@ Kay “He definitely doesn’t say women don’t like sex. He’s just pointing out that people need to be in the right mood to have sex, and getting hassled doesn’t help put you in the mood. Things seem more attractive when they’re not demanded or too available.” The article is about what men do to sabotage their sex lives. So I’m confused. Not asking for sex today might get me sex tomorrow, but aren’t I already sabotaging my sex life when I’m settling for not being sexually satisfied. I basically sabotage my sex life today for sex tomorrow. Maybe the… Read more »
You’re missing the subtlety of the relationship. Not asking/hassling your girlfriend doesn’t mean you won’t have sex today. She might already be in the mood to start with. If not, there are things you can do to make her feel like sex that don’t involve just saying ‘come onnnn. pleeeease’. You know, kissing, cuddles, a little butt squeeze or whatever. Seduce her. Just because she’s your girlfriend doesn’t mean ‘do you wanna have sex?’ becomes her biggest turn on. The whole point of this part of the article is to say, if you want someone to.want you, then make it… Read more »
And then the boyfriend/husband tries to turn her on, to seduce her and get’s rejected again? Then an argument starts because he kept on nagging her, or only massaged/kissed/etc her to get sex? Of course this won’t always happen but that is a potential outcome.
+1
Sing it, brother.
#6, get married? 😛