The questions at the heart of it all: Why does rape happen? What can we as a society do about it?
On December 16th a 23-year-old Indian student boarded a bus in New Delhi with her male companion. What had the makings for a day like any other quickly turned savage, deadly. Both were beaten with an iron rod and reports say that she was then gang-raped by six men and further “brutalized” for 45 minutes. The man has been discharged from the hospital, but the woman, whose name has not yet been released, was pronounced dead yesterday at a hospital in Singapore.
Protests have erupted throughout India and many peaceful protestors are claiming they’ve been beaten by riot police. All the media coverage is allowing needed space for stories to resurface, stories like that of a 17-year-old Indian girl who claimed she’d been gang-raped during the Hindu festival Diwali in November. A formal case was registered by police fourteen days later. Earlier this week she committed suicide, leaving a note behind that blamed her alleged rapists.
The profound sadness and mourning is fostering deep and necessary conversations on the current state of Indian masculinity and on the nature of rape itself. Some of the clearest commentary has come from Professor Ratna Kapur in her piece for The Hindu titled Rape and the crisis of Indian masculinity:
Rape is not simply about law and order, or about deranged individuals. Nor is the problem going to be solved by more laws, more police on our streets, more CCTV cameras on our buses or stiffer sentences for rapists. The gang rapes that are occurring with alarming regularity must compel us to reflect upon who we are as a society.
Rape taps into our most visceral emotions and as such it’s far easier to reach for the easy answers than to view it, as we do with other crimes, from a variety of perspectives. The primary way we get perspective seems to be through the fictionalized rape that dominates our media. Rape is at once sexual and violent and these are the tried-and-true ingredients that draw ratings. Many of our highest-rated and longest-running television programs often begin with a rape scene and then keep us glued to the television screen for the next twenty minutes because we want to get inside the rapist’s head to see why or how they committed the crime. I believe we’ve become entirely too comfortable with learning about and discussing the complexity of rape primarily when it’s fictionalized. There’s a serious danger when what we think we know about a crime we only “know” because of what TV drama has fed us (my latest visit to a sex trafficking shelter was with a woman whose entire knowledge of the crime came not from well-researched documentaries or books but from watching Liam Neeson in Taken. Her entire point of view was skewed to the point that a blank slate would have been far better. Fictionalized movies can be the spark for awareness but anything after that…). When we’re talking about real victims/survivors and real rapists our emotions from the raw reality of the crime can close us off and we become comfortable talking about rape only through the safe and prescribed ways – nearly always through the lens of the victim/survivor.
While this perspective is certainly necessary, it’s also necessary to view rape as the brutal crime it is, and this sometimes means the difficult and even politically incorrect strategy of ratcheting down the focus on victim/survivor empathy and placing attention elsewhere. This can happen effectively in university criminal justice courses because there’s an understanding that the ratcheting down has nothing to do with being a “rape apologist” or “rape sympathizer” and everything to do with trying to understand the crime itself, there’s an understanding of why it’s important. Much of what we know about organized crime didn’t come from those who were beaten or swindled out of money or property, it came from listening to the criminals, it came from viewing each crime not as a single acute act but of one part of a network, one created and grown through certain parts of our collective society. What we see in the public sphere regarding the crime of rape, however, is an absolute and blind allegiance to the victim/survivor, so much so that speaking of rape through any other method is a surefire way to receive one of the aforementioned labels. Professor Kapur took the difficult road. Easy it would have been to call the six men monsters and be done with it. Easy it would have been to speak only of “them.” Professor Kapur also looks inward, she looks at “who we are as a society.” When it comes to rape it’s far easier to vent than it is to, as Professor Kapur does here, seriously try to find answers.
She goes on to say:
Just like the killing of young innocents is forcing Americans to address the societal reasons for such violence and not just blame one individual, Indians need to understand that gang rape is not just an aberration committed by inhuman men. We need to address how we as a society are implicated in producing such appalling levels of violence against women, which is increasingly being tolerated and even normalised. As women enter the work place and the public arena, their boldness and confidence seem to trigger a sense of insecurity in a society where men are used to being in charge. While it is impossible to reduce the issue of violence to one sole cause, that is men, the fact remains that young men are the ones committing these crimes.
Bravo. Here is a thinker capable of balancing both the raw emotion for those brutalized and the raw rationality needed to unravel the nature of the crime itself. Good as it may feel, one singular factor cannot be blamed here. Major events like those in Newton and New Delhi create within us a host of emotions that can range from depression to total rage and anything beyond and in between. We owe it to those hurt the most – to the victims and the survivors – to channel those emotions, as Professor Kapur did, into ways that deepen the discussion, that show new perspectives, that don’t simply blame the perpetrators or the government, the situation or, as happens too damn often, the victim. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. had it right when he wrote in Letter From a Birmingham Jail:
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial “outside agitator” idea.
We’re all in this together. All of us who are taking time from our lives to think and write about the nature of rape are doing so because we hate rape more than anything in the world and we’re trying to understand its complexity. May the dialogue continue with respect and with understanding.
–AP Photo/Kevin Frayer: Protesters shield themselves as Indian police prepare to beat them during a violent demonstration near the India Gate, on December 23, 2012.
SOHAILA ABDULALI – “I reject the notion that my virtue is located in my vagina, just as I reject the notion that men’s brains are in their genitals.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/08/opinion/after-being-raped-i-was-wounded-my-honor-wasnt.html?hpw&_r=0
Ms Abdulai is a rape survivor.
Worrying about India smells of the Raj and academic tilting at windmills-
How about we put our own house in order first…
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/01/inside-anonymous-hacking-file-steubenville-rape-crew/60502/
Worrying about India smells of the Raj and academic tilting at windmills-
How about we put our own house in order first…
What makes you think people share a house, town or even state? It’s a Tad Rich assuming such levels of Privilege.
I’ll have to research this point a bit more, but I don’t believe that a reliable causal link has been established for sexually abused turning to abusers. It would seem intuitive that a strong causal link could be made, but I do not think it has been shown to be the case (possible a weak conflation force of some sort). What seems more apparent is that male sexual abuse victims tend to spend time in our penal systems while female abuse victims enter into mental health institutions. This specific case is incredible sad and tragic. With some reckless speculation on… Read more »
I wonder how many of the commenters have ever set a foot in India. It seems that everybody is trying to see the tragic event through his/her own biased lens, churning out really weird theories. India is very different from Western countries. It is land of contracdictions where everything and its exact opposite, both are true.
And You? have you ever set foot there – In India?
I not only have spent time India, I’ve also got some interesting roots/connections in the Indian Diaspora.
I want to tell you a secret. I am an Indian. Born and brought up in New Delhi. I am Brahmin by caste and belong to the family of former aristocrats in Bihar.
What makes you think it was a secret? P^)
Because nobody knows it here. Feeling really bad about the incident. I would have joined protest if I was living in India. I want to bash up those criminals.
Maybe you could answer on why you think there is so much sexual abuse. Also is there sexual abuse perpetrated by women commonly there? I only see stats on men. Not trying to “blame the women” here but trying to understand if there is a similar link to rapists in the U.S who the majority apparently have been abused by women and go on to abuse women later.
Archy, I am REALLY not persuaded that your claim that the majority of rapists in the US have been abused by women has much of a foundation. The studies that you cite earlier hardly even provide the most slender of bases and the sample sizes of the ones that I checked were extremely small (under 100). Really not a lot of ground upon which to make such generalizing and controversial statements that run contrary to common perception and consensus. I don’t want to dismiss the position without closer analysis, but do you have any stronger (and ideally more recent) evidence?
No, I use it as a guide, if I didn’t make that clear. I haven’t seen any recent studies on it and googling for it is pure evil as it usually just shows victims and not perpetrators. I’d love to see a much larger study that may or may not rule it out, at the moment I just see a potential link which is supported by a small study so far which definitely needs to be increased. Not sure who to ask for any more indepth studies, anyone here know anyone working in the prison systems with rapists? Why is… Read more »
<Why is it running against common consensus though? It’s known as the Wozzle Effect – and you are dealing with people who keep chasing the Woozle’s tail. Have a read of “Rethinking Domestic Violence”, Donald G. Dutton Page 109 onwards. Google Books Link To make It easy. Page 119 is a hoot where it shows Woozles in action. It’s Oh So familiar and we all know just how hard it is to deal with those who have embedded circular logic and are vanishing down rabbit holes. It has to be true because we believe it and out research top prove… Read more »
@ Archy – I have been busy, so you can now check out the “Woozles” and get ready for the Bun Fights.
I also do not have any idea as to why this is all happening. Sex is a taboo in India except the tribal areas. It is rarely ever discussed in public. Boys get all the information about it from peers and porn (educational magazines as videos as we used to call them) and form their own opinion about it without any chance of correction ever. Thus the only hard data available is the sexual crime rate. No significant research in whys and wherefores exist of sexual abuse exist. So all evidence about it is anecdotal.
Thanks for the reply. Sounds pretty bad if it’s never discussed, do most people there realize rape is wrong at least?
Of course, rape is considered one of the worst crimes. There is lot of social stigma attached to being branded rapist. Even among the criminals, they are considered the worst and are often beaten up by other inmates in the prison. On social level, they are ostracised and others would not give or take women in marriage to the family of rapist.
Media. I did some anthro going on half a century ago. So I decided to, at least in public, not be culturally chauvinistic. IOW, wrt the 500,000,00 living as practically everybody in the tropics did a hundred years ago, or last week, or a thousand years ago, who am I to judge? Shoes is an interesting issue. Nobody’s poorer in resources than the Eskimo in the traditional paleolithic culture, now ruined by snow machines and rifles and so forth, but they all had shoes, Even the kids. Pretty slick ones, too. If it’s worth it to have shoes, I guess… Read more »
I discussed this with a reflexive lib once, suggesting that even the most benighted groups could manage Ho Chi Minh sandals. I think she thought Nike made them. Or, given the name of the thing, perhaps Ben & Jerry’s, But after I explained it, she wondered how people would know how to make them. I guess the wonderful white people would airdrop illustrated directions or something. Sheesh.
Please – Lines like that have to come with a coffee and monitor warning!
I have heard that a climactic battle in Indian folklore–perhaps in the Bhavagad Gita (sp?) –involved the deaths of 18,000,000 ordinary men, none of whose names are recorded.
Mediahound makes a good point. Remember not to judge other cultures…. Or, at least, don’t expect the same from one culture as from another.
@Richard Aubrey – Well some folks can only manage “To Kill A Mocking Bird” when to comes to other people’s shoes and walking around. They just can’t imagine 500,000,000 million people with no shoes and open sewers.
It’s frequently said that most, or many, rapes go unreported, which leaves one wondering how we know about them if they’re not reported. That said, if more that were not reported are now reported, it may look like an increase in rape. Unless, of course, the requisite correction factor is applied to increase the number of unreported rapes. IOW, this could be an artifact of reporting, both on the part of the women and the part of journalists and commentators Of course, we shouldn’t teach women to protect themselves. We have to tell women to do whatever they want and,… Read more »
Unreported to the police they mean. Random sample surveys would show let’s say 4/10 people being raped, but police only get 1/20 reporting it so stats for the police are way under the random sample surveys hence the idea of under-reporting. (these stats aren’t real in this comment, only shown for demonstration).
Archy. If they’re not reported to the police, the likelihood they’re actually rape as opposed to anything from made up to actual rape is unknown. See Crystal Mangum.
Yes it is of some value to think about rape in a societal context, but the statement here about how the presence of women in the work force triggers insecurity in men, and the presentation of this as a factor in the India high and growing rape rate — this is absolutely nothing but conjecture on the part of the author, unless she has data from sound research which for some reason she failed to provide. It is possible that this is relevant, it’s possible that it is irrelevant. One person’s guess is as good as another’s Most knowledgeable people… Read more »
This is a helpful article by an Indian from an Indian paper talking about the connection between the escalation in gang-rapes of women and young girls and the elements of Indian society that are contributing. http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/rape-and-the-crisis-of-indian-masculinity/article4214267.ece And here’s an excerpt: “We need to inquire why young Indian men are routinely committing gang rapes in metropolitan cities against women who are just going about their daily lives. What is the anger that motivates this level of violence? Is the sight of a young smartly-dressed educated female professional generating a sense of displacement in men? Over the past several decades, women’s rights… Read more »
What is the anger that motivates this level of violence? – such a western perspective from English Language – Anglophone Indians. The Biases just keep plopping out!
What do you think the causes are? I’m asking seriously. I’ve been trying to keep up with your posts, and I do respect your opinion especially that there are loads of white western voices calling out in outrage, translating culture through a western lens. I will admit that it is hard (impossible, probably) to understand the dynamics given that I’m USian, but the rage and protests from women seem…forceful, the violence against women seem…well, it’s an impressive level of sexual violence.
If you have insights, I’d enjoy hearing them. If you don’t feel like posting, I’ll also understand.
In relation to India you do have to place all matters in a correct cultural lens. Imposing a White Judeao-Christian lens is a big No No! First The mass of Indian Culture and Society is built around a Pantheistic religion which frankly makes the Xeus and his mates look positively tame! The Levels of begatting, begetting, chasing, ravaging and so much more in just The Mahabharata ….. it leaves The Bible combined with the Greek pantheon looking like a kiddies colouring book. The Indian Cultural attitudes to sex, sexuality and sensuality are so alien to a Judeo-Christian/Protestant/Catholic and even Moslem… Read more »
Thank you Media Hound. I appreciate that.
In the west there is a link between rapists of women being raped BY women when younger. A report above said high levels of children are sexually abused, but doesn’t say who abused them so it may be an avenue worth looking into. Stats I looked up for rape there only shows rape as male perpetrators, female perps listed are only listed as accomplices and not women forcing men to penetrate. They need better statistic gathering to rule out this potential issue. My guess is that it may be linked to female rapists like in the U.S, but I’m sure… Read more »
Rape doesn’t always have to do with hate. Sometimes it has to do with power, sometimes about a lack of empathy, sometimes about being too drunk/high to make the right decision, sometimes it has to do with a lack of knowledge about what “rape” really is—in all its forms.
There may be men who rape because they hate women, but my feeling (especially based upon the studies by MacWhorter and Lisak, Miller) is that many men commit rape because they are deviant personalities who do all sorts of other nasty, criminal things simply because they can get away with it.
Guess that begs the question, are there far more rapists per 100 people in India, or even the extreme rape capital of the world the Congo vs the west? If the numbers are similar it could be indicative of a defect or something like psychopathy and partly influenced by genetics? They’ve identified warrior genes linked to violence I believe, which are far more common in men (quite a few abnormalities are more common in men as the Y chromosome is more unstable I’ve heard, such as ADHD). I guess that’s the genetic aspect that would be influenced by genes passed… Read more »
@Archy – most research is now synthesising and shifting around genetics and environmental exposure. All indications are that negative behaviour is not as simple as people wish to to be. Studies looking at what people would recognise as psychopathic behaviour show that exposure to abuse – Physical – Emotional at an early age appears to be the single largest factor in combination with genetics that is then expressed antisocially. It’s why the major focus for many years has been on domestic violence/abuse – and removing the aggressor from the child’s environment as long term social protection for all. There is… Read more »
I think that overwhelming childhood sexual abuse of males (the majority being abused, and more males than females) is relevant, irrespective of whether it is by men or by women. What it leads to is a normalization of sexual abuse, especially when such abuse – as it typically does – involves parental or family members. Also, when you have been deprived of any dignity by others, it can be much easier to treat others as if they didn’t have such dignity. When people feel that their dignity is in question – especially to themselves – their attempts to regain it… Read more »
Fantastic post Lori.
Alastair, I find it very hard to believe that a society that has such a huge issue with violence against women, would somehow treat little girls with less abuse then little boys in childhood. Although I can certainly understand that there would be a huge history of abuse for both little girls and boys in India. But to say that young boys are more often victims of abuse then young girls, and then all the sudden after a certain age, young women become bigger targets seems very unrealistic to me.
Thanks Erin. I think what we’re both obviously missing, along with the rest of the world, is that most of the violence committed across the globe is by women, towards women (and men). All of the people protesting, marching, writing, and speaking on this issue are deluded. They actually think there is a wide-scale societal problem of men raping women that needs to be addresses. Silly us, when the problem all along has been the opposite, and the abuse of mothers of their children. Not fathers or men. Men and boys are the victims of the worldwide Matriarchy. I read… Read more »
Was that helpful? Did it make you feel better to get that off your chest? Because it’s a great strawman. Who here is blaming the women ONLY? There are comments including mine that an avenue to look into is sexual abuse in earlier years of rapists, if it’s anything like the U.S where quite a few male rapists have a female perpetrator in their history abusing them then it’s certainly worth looking into don’t you think? Doesn’t at all mean that all or most rapists have that in their history but may explain the issue for some. Nor does it… Read more »
And did that make you feel better, Archy? Because I see the same tone in your post, the same irritation. I don’t know if that helps either. How about asking her where she’s at. As someone who knows Lori, she isn’t saying it’s always men’s fault through time immemorial. She’s frustrated. She (and I) get frustrated at what seems like a denial of the amount of sexual violence perpetrated on women by men. And you know, men don’t report nearly as much as women so we don’t know. Why they don’t report has a lot to do with old attitudes… Read more »
Julie is making a good point here, that should not be overlooked – What I do know is that the violence is there but it’s different for each gender and gang rapes for women on men do not seem to happen in the same way, same rate, with same results. Just because we’re talking about the brutal and deadly rapes against women in this conversation does NOT take away from any other conversation about abuse against men. But in this case, we’re talking about soldiers entering villages and raping dozens or hundreds of women. We’re talking about 5 men raping… Read more »
“But in this case, we’re talking about soldiers entering villages and raping dozens or hundreds of women.” Weapons of war for the soldiers. They will go in, kill off the men and take the women (although some men survive and many are raped before dying from what I’ve read). Gang rape outside of warfare though really puzzles my mind, is it linked to mob mentality? Does seeing a one or 2 others raping make it seem more ok or simply give them more of an excuse to act like a monster. Trying to understand the mind of a rapist thought… Read more »
Thanks Julie. Archy, let me try to calm down and give this one more shot, because yes, I’m very upset and frustrated. I’m going to try to use an analogy. I am of the opinion that our educational system is failing boys. I believe it is also failing girls, but not nearly as often or as badly as it is failing boys. I could be writing about this topic–as I often do–and shift the focus from boys to all children. What would be lost is the essential nuance, which is actually quite a bit more than nuance, that boys suffer… Read more »
Lori – I love fine art and you are quite correct that a fie brush can fill in detail. However, unless the artists is using a three dimensional canvas the artist only shows aspects of reality in at best 2 dimensions. Even then the colour of paint counts – so rape is red and sexual assault is a sort of pale pinky blue colour. Using A Big Splash of red can lead to high levels of abstraction – where the pale pinky blue applied with a fine brush can create very fine detail. That is why I do say rape… Read more »
No, it makes absolutely zero sense. As an educator clearly you can understand what this means. “Finally, there is an alarmingly high rate of sexual abuse by females in the backgrounds of rapists, sex offenders and sexually aggressive men – 59% (Petrovich and Templer, 1984), 66% (Groth, 1979) and 80% (Briere and Smiljanich, 1993). ” Do you get it now? Alastair just posted a PDF showing 60% of the victims of child sexual abuse in delhi were BOYS, DOUBLE that of the females. If this extends further into affecting a large portion of the population then the above quote has… Read more »
This theory is not a new one. It is the same story told to explain the rage and dominance behind the KKK, lynchings and even slavery. Many white southern men claimed (not in court but in stories and even in political theory discussions) that black nannies used both before and after the end of slavery routinely sexually abused white boys left in their care. Specifically, they got them to sleep by masturbating them. This kept the nanny out of trouble with her masters because the boy didn’t whine and do all the other stuff that kids do when you try… Read more »
You do realise that the topic under discussion is India and not the USA?
Are you of the view that Delhi – Capitol of India – is in Louisiana or Georgia?
Just Checking, cos your response seems to be in an odd frame and with astigmatic lenses!
Lynn, Just for the record, my claim that childhood sexual abuse are a factor here are not based on the assumption that women are the ones abusing. My suspicion is that most of the abuse occurs at the hands of males. I never advanced any theory that the abuse of boys by women lay behind the culture of sexual assault in Delhi and don’t hold such a theory, as I have little evidence to support it. The reference that I made to the masturbation of young Indian boys by their mothers was in response to Archy’s query and I questioned… Read more »
Just for the record, my claim that childhood sexual abuse are a factor here are not based on the assumption that women are the ones abusing. My suspicion is that most of the abuse occurs at the hands of males. Expressio Unius Est Exclusio Alterius – The Expression Of One Thing Is The Exclusion Of The Other. I’m suspicious of your suspicions. … and of course some would say “No Shit Sherlock” to that! The India 2007 survery – There is scant comment as to abuser profile and you really have to look hard and even know how to look… Read more »
Okay, I want to step back and take note of what is being said in Lori’s snark, because I know that when we resort to snark, our entire message is usually lost. Lori’s last line, “…has a problem of violence towards women that they don’t in some way deserve” explains where her anger (and thus, snark) are coming from. Lori is saying that this discussion feels like victim-blaming to her. That doesn’t mean anyone’s trying to blame victims, but everyone here needs to pause for a moment and consider how we can continue this conversation in a way that we… Read more »
My agenda is to stop rape. FACT is that there is a link between the abusers being abused, not all are abused nor do all abused go on to abuse, but there is a significant level of abuse that can be prevented by stopping that first cycle of abuse on a person. That is not victim-blaming, and anyone that feels it is needs to take a breath and re-read what I said. It means some Woman A raped male X who he then goes on to rape woman B, woman A has probably influenced woman B’s rape. If the male… Read more »
Lori, the question here is not a generalized one, but the particular question of what is happening in Delhi, and why it is happening. Over twice as many boys (54.66%) as girls (22.54%) in Delhi answer survey questions in a way that suggests SEVERE sexual abuse (the general figures in India are 23.06% boys to 18.58% girls, varying significantly from city to city). The statistics for more general sexual abuse in Delhi are 65.64% to 34.36%. I am not denying for a moment that the sexual abuse of women is an issue of horrific proportions in Delhi, nor am I… Read more »
This is the survey in question – http://wcd.nic.in/childabuse.pdf. Read from page 71 onwards.
Holy shit, that goes against everything I’ve heard on abuse too. Is there a cultural issue where the boys are abused more?
Alistair – forgive me for making a very pertinent point – but this time last year the sexual abuse of boys was raised and got thrown under the bus because it did not agree with some people’s required world views. I wonder if there is any progress in 12 Months!
I didn’t think you were victim-blaming at all. Quite frankly some of these replies have been frustrating in their blindness to the point here. It seems the possibility of some women helping influence the rape of other women is too taboo to talk about, it doesn’t help that online discussions are often derailed though which is probably what our comments appear to be. The ultimate taboo, mentioning the other gender on a gendered article because everything is black n white, the genders are separate! Pity reality has 2 genders that directly influence each other and yes that means the bad… Read more »
…It seems the possibility of some women helping influence the rape of other women is too taboo to talk about, … Rocking the Boat? Well Archie it was nice knowing you. You will be banished to outer darkness for all eternity for being on point.
Oh and I keep forgetting to mention an Obvious matter – there is no law against Child Sexual; Abuse in India – Flys in the face of UN Convention On Rights Of The Child, Article 34. But you know, Police in india collect stats for none crimes just to fill the day! That’s nice of them.
@ Alastair – I’ve been digging in me archives again and found a nice 6 page easy read which may be helpful Review Research Paper – The Problem of Child Sexual Abuse in India Laws, Legal Lacuna and the Bill – J Indian Acad Forensic Med. April-June 2012, Vol. 34, No. 2 I know It lacks a snappy Title, but it covers all of issues – is upto date and has a wonderful selection of Links to follow up. It’s a nice 6 page rabbit punch for those who can’t handle the hundreds of pages else where! Unfortunately as with… Read more »
Did Alastair mean sexual abuse?
Only thing I see in that article where males faced more abuse was physical abuse (which generally isn’t sexual abuse). It looks like males cop more physical abuse, females probably more sexual abuse though I haven’t seen stats for sexual abuse by gender of victim and age in India.
“The survey, which involved interviews with 12,447 children, also highlights that it is usually family members (89 percent) who perpetrate such crimes and that more boys face physical abuse (72.61) than girls (65 per cent). “
I mean sexual abuse. Look at the survey here (http://wcd.nic.in/childabuse.pdf) from page 71 onwards. The statistics are very stark. Pay particular attention to those for Delhi.
Alistair – you have to understand that you are dealing with people who only wish to hear and see things that agree with THEIR reality. It’s an issue that is well known and affects all ape like species … It’s called prejudice. People will also not go and look at anything that addresses or endangers their prejudices. We saw that so recently with yet more knee jerking over rape and GMP. The screams of “GMP Has Cooties” show the level many are at. It’s hard to have a debate if people are not willing to have their positions altered when… Read more »
It’s a tad shocking that the figures got out at all – they are both good and bad. Good that reality was allowed out of the bag – bad in that due to a poor set of sections in the survey instrument the Perp profiles were rubbish and unpublished, so it’s assumed all abused are male. Maybe next time.
I don’t know the reasons why.
The point I’m trying to make is that few people (particularly on the left) make much effort actually looking for possible reasons.
As Danny said, the conversation seems to start and end with, “they’re doing it out of anger over losing privilege.”
“The ‘strong’ state makes itself possible by lawless and unconstitutional exertions and endeavours. It fosters practices of national integration that remain deeply and pervasively human rights violative; it emerges for the minorities as an ‘institutionalized riot system’; it remains a – ‘state in search of a nation’ and embodies a resilient rape culture.”. Baxi, Upendra – The (Im)possibility of Constitutional Justice: Seismographic Notes on Indian Constitutionalism. In India’s Living Constitution. (2002) pp 31-47. Copy I’d advise everyone to look at Baxi’s work – as Prof of Law Delhi and Warwick University UK he has been at the forefront of more… Read more »
The gang rape and brutalisation of the girl in Delhi which ultimately lead to her death is really tragic. The perpetrators of the crime deserve and would certainly be awarded death penalty (to be hanged by neck till death). Your claim that rape is used as political control method is definitely a hyperbole. Your knowledge of ground reality in India belies your attempt to project yourself as some sort of expert in sexual crimes. Police and armed forces are not protected under any law from being prosecuted for any crime including rape. Obviously, you are referring to Armed Forces Special… Read more »
The U.S. has at least 4 times rape cases than in India with population about one-fourth of India. The Website of United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime has national level data on number of police recorded rapes in 2011. Rapes per hundred thousand people in India are much lower than lot of developed countries. Interesting and also a very very basic flaw in perception. Yes – Offical stats may differ, but then you do need to judge the stats against the actual ability of being a statistic and counted! If you live in a country such as the US… Read more »
The prosecution in rape cases is pretty complicated and perhaps you have never read the whole 200 or more pages of the judgments given in Indian court system. You are trying to prove that rapes are really acceptable in India and nobody cares about it. Several times false rape accusations are used to gain upper hand in disputes especially related to property. In certain cases, when there is a physical fight between two groups and any lady intervenes and gets hurt in the process where clearly sexual assault was not a motive. Unscrupulous police men and lawyers advise the affected… Read more »
The prosecution in rape cases is pretty complicated and perhaps you have never read the whole 200 or more pages of the judgments given in Indian court system. On the other hand perhaps I have? I know It’s a shocking Idea but, They have even got Internet in India now – and they even publish such things a court adjudications on line. Have a Mathura – “Tukaram & Anr. v. State of Maharashtra, 1979 AIR 185 – 1979 Now wasn’t it Baxi et al who write to the Supreme court and said such things as : “…extraordinary decision sacrificing human… Read more »
Without wanting to minimize the horror of this crime, it seems that Professor Kapur relies on various tropes when writing her article.
Just like her Western feminist counterparts, she seems to attribute male misbehavior and frustration to “anger over losing privilege,” or what some are beginning to call “aggrieved entitlement.”
Whether it’s white men in the U.S, or brown men in India, all forms of male frustration, anger, and misbehavior are somehow reduced to “privilege.”
As Danny once said on an earlier thread, maybe, just maybe, men commit these types of crimes for reasons other than “entitlement” or the patriarchy.
What do you think some of the reasons are?
I think that the fact that the majority of India’s boys have been sexually abused and many are raised in a context where sexual abuse at the hands of parents and relatives is normalized (http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=476&Itemid=34) has rather a lot to do with this. The line between victim and perpetrator is frequently crossed from both directions.
I take it you are referring “Study on Child Abuse: INDIA 2007” by Ministry of Women and Child Development working with Save the Children and UNICEF… among others. The easy read: 1. Across different forms of abuse and across different evidence groups, the younger children (5-12 years of age) have reported higher levels of abuse than the other two age groups. 2. Boys, as compared to girls, are equally at risk of abuse. 3. Persons in trust and authority are major abusers. 4. 70% of abused child respondents never reported the matter to anyone. http://www.webcitation.org/6DK0zlzg2 The full report can be… Read more »
The sample size of the survey is too small to be taken seriously for a country with population over billion.
Oh Interesting! So in your opinion exactly what sample size would be needed?
I do welcome your logic, becasue should it be valid we can at last throw away the accused 1 in 4 and 1 in 6 stats, because they come from an appallingly small sample size, and yet have been trotted out since 1984 as 107% accurate and valid!
The sample size should have been at least a hundred thousand to be taken seriously.
Well it’s nice to have a number, but what is it based upon? hundred thousand sounds big and valid, but on what basis does the word least – or rather at least – get applied in a valid way? Come on, you have opened the door .. lets run through it!
The number of people under the age of 14 according to Census 2011 report is 359,564,220. The universe of the survey is pretty big. Sample size depends upon preferred confidence level and desired error margin. Although even hundred thousand does not come anywhere near a valid sample size but at least it would show that the surveryors at least were serious.
Sorry – but your seem to be expressing opinion and not theoretical and even academic views. As I have said I hope you are right because the 1 in 4 figures come from a very small sample group. It even throws the CDC under the bus.
Problem with getting 100,000 surveys done is the cost to survey, especially on small budgets, you at least need to mark off 100,000 surveys which takes many many humanhours of work unless digitally done. I’d like to see full comprehensive surveys done with at least 0.5 to 1% of the population done, maybe in the future it could be done with more access to the internet but it’d be a huge undertaking. At the moment though I believe it is a good warning guide that more studies need to be done, regularly like every 5-10 years or at least once… Read more »
Sexual abuse is a taboo subject in India. I wounder how those surveryors found the participants for their survey. I would not be surprised if this survey turns out to be bogus.
So Rapses – your preferred explanation is that The 2007 Report written by Government of India, the United Nations and Multiple NGOs is a fraud, and so no children have been abused – just Tax Payers Dollars and international aide? Well! You have have come clean and admitted you are from Bhārat and know more that others of Bhārat . So if, as you indicate, there is such massive corruption from the government on down through out Bhārat that such a massive Fraud can be perpetrated, should we just accept the idea of such whole sale corruption, fraud and illegality… Read more »
I never claimed that no child was ever abused in India. I am just skeptical about the veracity of the data collected. Certainly cokking up some data is not a massive fraud given the level of corruption in government departments and NGOs.
Corruption is global phenomena.
It is kind of off-topic here, but how about a survey with a sample size of 126,696 boys – from South-Africa – another country with it’s on section on Wikipedia’s article on Rape culture.
It found that 9% had been raped in the last year. 44% of the 18 year olds reported they had ever been raped (forced sex). 41% of the respondents reported a female perpetrator, 32% a male perpetrator and 27% reported both female and male perpetrors.
http://www.equityhealthj.com/content/7/1/20
@Tamen, correct me if I am wrong but don’t they also have gang rapes involving both genders as perpetrators?
@Tamen @ archy – The South Africa Findings (2008) are best summed up in the conclusion from the study; Conclusion This study uncovers endemic sexual abuse of male children that was suspected but hitherto only poorly documented. Legal recognition of the criminality of rape of male children is a first step. The next steps include serious investment in supporting male victims of abuse, and in prevention of all childhood sexual abuse. The Hitherto poorly documented is significant, both in assessing cause and effect. There is the documented issue from central Africa – Uganda – Rwanda – Congo – Berundi –… Read more »
Note also that boys are sligtly more at risk for rape than girls even though envelopment is not included in the definition of rape (or “sexual assault” which is the term used by the survey). See page 80 in the report Mediahound linked to. Also interesting is the finding that in Delhi (where the incident in the OP occurs) boys are almost twice as likely as girls to be victims of sexual abuse (ca. 65% vs. ca 35%). See table on page 75. The report has a section called “Major Findings”. It presents the gender distribution of victimization by physical… Read more »
Alastair, if the majority of India’s boys have been sexually abused, what about India’s girls?
What I am trying to say is that the “statistics” are questionable to me.
We should take into account that it’s normalized to abuse women and girls and some of the absues they may suffer may be more taken for granted then possibly what young boys or men face. I don’t know if that’s a fact, however it’s an idea to consider. WHich might explain why abuse of boys is slightly more reported then abuse of girls.
What I am trying to say is that the “statistics” are questionable to me. Saying Stats are questionable without actually looking at them is the same as believing in Monocerotem Unicornis or as many know them “Unicorns”. Such beliefs may both look equally harmless of the face of things, but actually not reading blunts one of the two terribly and often leads to serious injury. Worse still, the injury is not to the person who is ignorant or a fantasist of horsey things with a single horn and flowing white main. Misuse of Stats has been known to result in… Read more »
I think that one of them is a matter of men being abused as young boys, not getting the help that they need to heal, and taking a very dark lesson from it. I usually sum this up as, “No one cared about the fact that Johnny was abused as a child but when he grew up and married Suzie and abused her all of sudden the very same people that didn’t reach out to him did reach out to her.” And I think there is something else going on here that adds to that. Being raised as men we… Read more »
Just like her Western feminist counterparts, she seems to attribute male misbehavior and frustration to “anger over losing privilege,” or what some are beginning to call “aggrieved entitlement.”
Hmmmm – yes it does read as rather poorly informed and self satisfied. He Just Ignores the legal situation in india where the Government has some 25% of it’s population under Martial law with rape used as a military control measure? Bit of a blind spot and #Fail in my book …. but that’s academics for you!
the word – rape- is attached in the social system of the Indian male dominated culture just as – mardangi- to woman for over century – no one protests or objected… it is just going on and on…. no objections, only the raped girl get punished from the society, police, legal system, administration etc. etc. the whole blame is on the raped girl and those rapists ……. they are just mard … that’s all. nothing was changed over century … decade after decade……………. who is going to stop it, firstly this mentality……. this is the question of the hour……. first… Read more »
Several years ago I saw Jackson Katz speak. It was the first time I realized that the American (and seemingly the rest of the world’s) notion of rape prevention was teaching women how to best keep themselves safe (including covering themselves up) versus understanding why men rape and dealing with the issue at the causal instead of the effect level. The normalization of rape, the kind of “boys will be boys” attitude, what can you do? with a shoulder shrug is still so prevalent.
Thanks for your article!
Humans will be humans more like it, We’ve had many years of anti-rape awareness but it still happens, hell in the U.S the rate of female perpetration has risen extremely sharply so maybe many rapists just don’t want to listen. I’d say teach both not to rape but also give tips on how to stay safe (such as covering your drink and never letting it out of your sight at bars) would be a good idea. I hope for a day when everyone is safer but no one can walk down streets 100% safe, precautions can be taken within reason,… Read more »
The details of this case are nauseating…I bet the details and personal profiles of the suspects will be examined under the microscope….the act of rape as part of a continuum with violence and murder is blatant here….I suppose whatever drove them to act as a group must be condoned in their micro culture (are they part of a gang or is that how things go in their little fiefdom?)….I have a feeling there must be something completely destroyed within the psyches of these men…how can you go about attacking/killing someone like that unless you somewhat dead inside yourself already?
It amazes me how many people are fixated on one event – one death – and they miss so much. Activist in India (You Know – people who live there, are active there … the one’s that get raped and deal with rape there) … these poor ill-informed, uneducated and evidently stupid Indians are pointing to the whole country, they are pointing at laws which protect police and army from being prosecuted for rape in Assam, Gujarat, Chhattisgarh, Kashmir, Manipur to name but a few. I’m tired of the racism it’s time to stop it! In 2002 – Prof Upendra… Read more »
@mediahound- please some links, in my experience you dig deep.
Ref – Most of India is covered in the additions finally made to Wikipedia Rape Culture (Entry For India as at 30 Dec 2012) from my provisional work… they were added with no objection as of 10:39, 24 December 2012. It’s shocking to see the Wiki page hits go through the roof and a 300% spike just to content Also the South Africa section bears close consideration too – again nominally at this time all my work – though I have spotted that some idiots have decided that Steve Biko was writing in the 1980’s – a little odd given… Read more »
I don’t doubt they’ve been screaming about it for 50 years. I’ve seen the photo of the naked women of Manipur, it’s incredibly moving, I wept when I saw it. I think what is being said here isn’t, “India, YOU need to take responsibility and start speaking up!” But more, “Look world, this is happening everywhere. It’s time we all start paying attention and prioritizing ending rape.” The fact is, women die from gang rape here, too. Women are raped in this country, even by just one man, and almost die from it. Lynn Beisner tells her story of just… Read more »
This piece is worth a read: http://daddysan.wordpress.com/2012/12/24/the-subjugation-capital/.
Alastair, that is one of the most powerful and moving posts I’ve read yet. Thank you. I have shared it widely. And Cameron, this is an excellent article, truly excellent.
Side-topic but couldn’t think of where to ask, do the women there ever grope men? In the U.S quite a lot of sexual assault seems to swing both ways but from the sound of it it’s far more skewed towards male perp, female victim in India? Is it a vastly different culture to the U.S, or Australia, etc? I’ve heard there are female-only rail cars to try address the problem.