The “Still Not Asking For It” Photo, And STFU’s Response

Still Not Asking for it

This is making the rounds on Facebook, as it should. [Full photo below] Stereotypes about men still need to be shattered, apparently. They are not sharks.

We found it on Sebastian Bieniek’s Facebook page, and he added this commentary:

This photo was posted on STFU, Conservatives Tumblr page last night. The reason why I’m sharing it is not because of the photo itself (which is epic in it’s own right), but for the comments it generated.One person wrote, “but then again, its kind like putting a meat suit on and telling a shark not to eat you”.

STFU responded (with bolded text):

“We (men) are not fucking sharks!

We are not rabid animals living off of pure instinct

We are capable of rational thinking and understanding.

Just because someone is cooking food doesn’t mean you’re entitled to eat it.

Just because a banker is counting money doesn’t mean you’re being given free money.

Just because a person is naked doesn’t mean you’re entitled to fuck them.

You are not entitled to someone else’s body just because it’s exposed.

What is so fucking difficult about this concept?”

Bravo.

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Comments

  1. Men need to stop getting defensive about feminism. As a man, I find it embarrassing. Stop feeling so threatened because a group of people who have been kept down in many ways over the centuries, are speaking up for themselves. It’s on par with asking “Why is there no white history month?”

    • No, Jason, it’s not. Not even close. And I think you don’t realize it, because I believe you feel essentially comfortable in your role within traditional society, so not only do you fail to see how it oppresses men in general, but you very much cling on to the chivalrous role of protecting females, in this case from privileged men. Not that it’s an entirely bad thing: it’s very much a part of the search for equality for men to care about the oppression of women, and to stand up for their equality. The problem as I see it is that sort of thing comes off as a hollow gesture, maybe even one with an ulterior motive to win over the oppressed female as her knight in shining armor. And women who are less than the strong and self-sufficient ideal of feminism will fall for that, because they are not so much about self-empowerment as they are being victims of oppression. Until you explore the unequal pressures and frustrations that men feel under the yoke of traditional society, until you allow yourself to feel your oppressions instead of simply accepting and dealing with them as “real men” do, (as women did for so much of history), you won’t understand that the oppression is a lot more equal than you think between men and women. Then you might understand why men get defensive, because they get tired of being the whipping boy of the vindictive brand of feminism while they have their own issues.

  2. Rhapsodian says:

    Spent quite a good time reading most of the comments, people have very varied opinions so i’ll tell mine.

    No matter what she wears, rape is rape. The fact that girls dress “sexy” doesn’t mean that she wants to be raped. If she says no, it’s no. Period. It’s even uncomfortable to go out with my girlfriend at certain places in summer, in her shorts or skirts, because I do try to avoid other guys staring at her. It’s uncomfortable. Staring and being attracted to a girl’s body is simply instinct, and you just won’t stop stares. However, raping is not instinct. You cannot rationally do it and say “she’s asking for it”.

    BUT…yes, there is a but.

    Many people made comparisons like this and I don’t think it’s flawed. If I were rich, I should be able to go by in my newest BMW with my most expensive iPhone in my Armani Suit and my Rolex watch in every street of town, from the fanciest to the slums. That should work. In Utopia. If I do get robbed while driving in the slums, is it my fault? No, it isn’t. No possible way. Did I ask for it? Somewhat…

    We live in a real world, and some people commenting should realize it. In a perfectly civilized world, a girl could go topless without “asking for it”. Now, if she wants NO ONE to stare at her, well that’s impossible. Men are attracted to it, and are very visual, so stares would be unavoidable. Even other girls would stare. Now, a civilized guy like me (and most people, I do think the world is good) would simply stare and go. Not even approaching her. I’d personally find it strange. But why risk being spotted by one of the few predators out there?

    Rape is a serious problem, and it’s not a new problem. It exists. And while I do support this girl’s claims, I don’t think that going around topless is the proper way to do it. Forget rape, it’s just not the place to be topless. No matter if you’re an incredibly good looking male or female, there are places to be half naked, and the public streets isn’t one of those. So, being topless, is she asking for it? No, no one asks for rape. Is she asking for attention, maybe unwanted attention? Sadly, she is. Even if it’s legal, it’s still uncommon and the uncommon gets attention, not always positive attention (don’t actually know if it’s legal, in my country it would be I think, but it’d be asking for trouble).

    Rape exists, and while society tries to solve it around the globe, it has to be prevented. I strongly believe that society should stop men from raping, instead of women to prevent being raped. But some people are just flawed and no matter what the education, they’ll still do it. So, we must live assuming that it CAN happen and take precautions.. If you’re going out to downtown, where not the fanciest of people are, just try to avoid dressing in a provocative way, especially if going alone. It shouldn’t be so! But do it. It’s unfair, but it is like doing tourism with your wallet quite visible and your happy tourist face. You’re not asking to get robbed, but we are all aware of certain precautions we can take to avoid it.

    So come on, give credit to the common sense advice. Watch the people you hang with. Watch the places you go to. Just like most dangers, it can be prevented, and I believe this is the point that most guys try to say when stating that being topless or half naked is not right. NO ONE says women deserved to be raped, who on their right mind could say this? Girls have right to dress as they want, and we guys should respect it and keep our hands (and whistling) to ourselves. But by dressing “sexy” or “provocative”, you know you’ll get attention, and as I mentioned earlier, it could be unwanted, dangerous attention. Predators prey on the unsuspecting (in any kind of crime). So, when girls decide to dress like this, extra precautions have to be taken, regardless of the topless girl saying that she’s still not asking for it.

    To conclude, there’s absolutely no excuse for rape, not one; topless girl not asking for it is still asking for attention or trouble; girls, dress like you want, just be careful with the company and the locations. Most girls argue that clothing doesn’t matter sometimes, and it’s true…but I do think that a “sexy” outfit ought to increase the chances.

    Hope I don’t piss off anyone, it’s not my intention to start a debate, I just tried to sum up most of the comments I read and come up with a neutral and realistic opinion.

  3. this might seem like the most simplest of questions but………….what does she want me to do ?

  4. When you say, “[full photo below],” wth are you talking about?

  5. Just for an interesting addition to the topic, when male on male rape within the prison system is included in statistical analysis, men are raped at a much higher frequency than women. Rape is not a man vs. woman issue. It’s a power, dominance, act. It is done by violent individuals. The anti men vitriol that gets passed arround when talking about rape is as insensitive as claiming the woman was responsible. “Men” do not rape people, violent rapists (be it any gender) rape people. To say anything else is to be blind to the issue. Dress, act, be vigilant, for your own safety from violent rapists, not to be safe from men.

  6. This woman has the full right to dress like this. She can even work like this. Its a place called a strip club. She can utilitze all her feminist rights.
    On the other hand, if she wants a normal high paying job that utilizes her mind and other talents (provided she has any) she will have to dress just as modestly as the rest of us and for the same reasons. That reason being that this kind of nonsense is a distraction and is ugly and no one (except at the strip club) wants to see it.

  7. @courage. You can, just take off your shirt just like she did. In Ontario she is doing nothing illegal.
    And no, she does not look smug. Methinks her nakedness is turning you on and you are upset about that so attacking her!

    Rape has been over and over not to be committed (at least for the most part) by horny men. It is a power issue. I doubt men look at a frail 90 year old and think “Oh mama, gotta get me some of that!” And she probably isn’t dressed provocatively.

    I have been date raped twice…once when I was 19 and once about a year ago. There was no violence per se, I did say no both more than once times (I guess I didn’t say it loud enough or scream), but there was quiet insistence and yes, I was intimidated. With the first one I was a small town girl, he was my much older boyfriend in the big city, I didn’t even KNOW that I had been raped until years later. I didn’t KNOW that no means no. The second one he actually brought someone else into the room behind me. He had hidden them in his bedroom and when he “got me where he wanted me so to say” he had this person come in and penetrate me something…I never looked. I yelled and cried and swore and yelled and cried some more and got out to my car…where I cried for a while longer. I had gone over for coffee.

    It didn’t matter what I wore in this situations. I could have been naked or covered up head to toe…they still would have done it because they wanted control. And that is what at least most rape is all about. They may have a type that they prefer and they may get off on it, but the sexual release is secondary.

  8. courage the cowardly dog says:

    I find the smug look on this woman’s face to be obnoxious as if she is saying “I can expose myself with impunity and there is nothing you can do about it.” Does this mean I can drop trou and expose myself to the world? I mean if she can why can’t I?

    • She isn’t exposing her genitals. She is exposing her breasts.men also have breasts, and nipples, which they are permitted to show. So bad comparison. She doesn’t look smug to me, just defiant. To me she’s just making a small point, which gives people a talking point. Two points from her two pointy nipples.

      • Yeah, and there are appropriate places for men to be shirtless. While it’s legal for a man to be shirtless pretty much anywhere outside, it is inconsiderate to people who maybe, just maybe, don’t want to see you without a shirt on, even if you think you are sexy and everyone wants to see you. There are very few acceptable occasions for a man to be shirtless, and I can only think of the beach as an appropriate place for men or women to be showing off their bodies.

  9. courage the cowardly dog says:

    Ok, my prior comment about nudity being illegal as an expression of community standards (Columbus, Ohio being the exception) obviously has been deleted. But it is in most jurisdictions so even if you claim that your nudity is not implied consent to be the recipient of sexual expression by someone attracted to your nudity it is nonetheless an illegal exposure of body parts society does not want to see. Given that community standard what purpose does it serve to expose your breasts and pubic hair in public.

  10. Here’s the problem I see with this entire concept. What do you think people are questioning when they ask about what a “victim” was wearing? They aren’t questioning whether her clothing gives a “rapist” the right to rape her, they are questioning whether or not she really is a victim. Don’t get me wrong, if a person says and indicates at any time that they don’t want to have sex, (or if they can’t say yes), then having sex with them against that will is wrong, and it is rape. But rape is not such a straight-forward crime, because the act which defines it as rape (sex) is not strictly undesirable; in fact, it is an instinctual and sought-after act under the right circumstances. The problem then becomes the sociopsychological stigma associated with the act of sex. Let’s face it, sex is sometimes an all-consuming aspect of life. In particular, for many young men, sex is the ultimate goal of self esteem, driven by societal pressure and hormonal lust. But for many young women, it can be a defining act of a less positive nature–an extremely less positive nature, in fact. It’s so tied up in expectations of perfection and pressurized by religious Puritanism, that the experience can be psychologically overwhelming. And not just that, but the whole game of sexual interaction is so fraught with spoken and unspoken rules and subtle tensions and “misunderstandings,” and often colored by alcohol, that clear intentions are not to be found. So, for those individuals on the edges of the bell curve of human psycho-stability, they may not act rationally or morally. In the case of the type of men above, perhaps some of them become rapists. In the case of the type of women above, they may lie or become irrationally convinced of their victimhood. What people are questioning when they ask what a female “victim” was wearing is whether she might be so screwed up by society, she would have intentions that she later regretted: enough to lie, or invent her own reality. This is where the current understanding of the status of rape culture is so sexist. It presumes that a we should increase convictions of men accused of rape, while ignoring the the female side of the equation, as if all women are both moral and rational at all times. False accusations, like rape, are unfortunately a reality. The answer is in correcting the way we warp individuals, especially those on the edges of humanity: men AND women.

    • I think you are missing the point. Women who are raped are often told they were “asking for it” because they were dressed “provocatively” whatever that means. Many men assume that a woman is being “provocative” simply because she was dressed stylishly or appropriately for the place or season (e.g. shorts and a tank top in summer). But even if a woman is intentionally dressing to look sexy, say wearing a cocktail dress to a club, it doesn’t mean she “asking” to get raped any more than walking down the strret means you are asking to get mugged. Women aren’t responsible for men feeling lustful. Men will probably feel lustful whatever women are wearing. It’s the responsibility of men to deal with it, which fortunately the majority of men are capable of doing. In other words, rapists are responsible for rape, not women for provoking them. Rapists usually look for women who are vulnerable not women who are dressed provocatively.

      • I think YOU’RE missing the point. When women are told they’re “asking for it,” it’s not an admonition that they deserved to be actually raped. No one believes actual rape is OK no matter what the victim is wearing, or not wearing. The person who is saying it believes her outfit puts her in greater danger of being raped, not unlike leaving your house completely dark while you’re on vacation puts you in greater danger of being robbed. It’s a commentary on her wisdom, not the rapist’s guilt. You may not accept that rapists are drawn to provocatively dressed or drunk victims, but whoever says “she was asking for it” does. Then, secondarily, it begs the question of what I was addressing above–whether the act could have actually been consensual.

        • Chad Geisler says:

          “The person who is saying it believes her outfit puts her in greater danger of being raped”

          Women are raped no matter what they are wearing, no matter what they are doing, and no matter their age.

          90 year old woman raped on her way to the store: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/25/90-year-old-woman-raped-rochdale

          Woman in Burkha raped while guying groceries.: http://olehgirl.com/?p=8842

          People don’t judge that argument just because it’s offensive, they only judge it because it’s factually incorrect.

        • What a woman is wearing has nothing to do with consent. A woman in a skimpy outfit may have absolutely no intention of having sex with any particular person. Assuming that skimpy clothing is evidence of consent is the problem we are discussing. And saying “she asked for it” does imply the woman wanted it or at least is at fault for getting raped.

          • Mostly_123 says:

            Fine. I’m all for freedom. But for diversity’s sake, let’s extend the parameters a bit: Would a male, very liberally clad, also not provoke a detrimental reaction from some; being misperceived as being overtly licentious, predatory, or otherwise ‘creepy’? Since what a woman wears has nothing to do with consent, one could argue that so to should the same presumption of intent be extended to the wearer, be they female or male. One could also argue then that, reciprocally, a liberally dressed man is not, and should not be assumed to be licentious. And what about age as well as gender? An ‘old’ man (or woman) thus liberally dressed is obviously not afforded the same social latitude, endorsement, and presumption of benign intent as a ‘young’ woman (or man). But hey, it’s all about the college kids, right? (Or at least the ones who don’t live in a sub-zero climate). Just saying.

            • first, let me be clear, I’m not advocating that anyone run around naked! I personally prefer that people dress appropriately – a bikini is fine at the beach, not at the office. That said, a lot of what women wear that’s considered “provocative” are just stylish or summer clothes, such as a summer dress or shorts or a cocktail dress at a club. Should women wear long sleeves and ankle length skirts to a club? Men can wear shorts, tank tops, etc. without generating negative assumptions. should men be able to dress as skimpily as some women do and not be considered creepy? Yes, actually, I think that would be fair. More men in yoga pants, yes! 🙂

              As for not being able to dress skimpy when you are older, well join the club. I used to have great legs and I grew up in California in the 1970’s and ’80’s wearing short shorts. Now I’ve got cellulite in my thighs and I wear Bermuda shorts, alas.

          • I think the point that any particular clothing does not imply consent is so obvious and so banal due to this obviousness…..
            On the other hand, modesty is still a virtue (for men and women). You make a trade off… if you want respect you choose modesty… if you want power and attention you flaunt….
            You choose….

    • I hear a lot of one-track mindedness here. It comes from the presumption that a so-called “victim” is telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth. It comes from a determination to see all women as frail and helpless victims, and never capable of gross misinterpretation or even deliberate evil. If you picture the world of women being constantly victimized by society, and by men in particular, and in conjunction you afford them the status of being faultless, then you’re going to believe every alleged rape victim from the outset. You’re going to think, “that poor woman; why does society not only allow that to happen to her, but tries to blame her for it?” But that means you’ve condemned someone else to a label of rapist–and subjected him to punishment that could essentially ruin his life–on the word of someone you don’t know, someone who’s as imperfect as the next human. Do you really believe that some women aren’t capable of being either so screwed up in the head by a puritanical society or vindictive and evil that they might not quite get the truth right? Did Tom Robinson rape Mayella Ewell in “To Kill a Mockingbird”? How many men has the Innocence Project proven innocent after their lives have been ruined by false accusations? What if your little brother woke up one morning after a drunken party to find some crazy bitch had accused him of such a vile deed as rape? Alleged rape victims deserve compassion because it’s better to give undeserved kindness than it is to fail to give kindness to someone in need. But that does not absolve an alleged victim from an investigation of the truth, and in that investigation, determining a person’s intent from circumstantial evidence like “what she was wearing” is a necessary part of the logical process. What would you have people do: simply assume her version of the story to be true? Rape is never OK, even if the victim was naked and shaking her goods in front of someone; but in determining whether or not a rape really occurred, well…

    • Paul, here is actually a very simple way to clear up the issue of consent, and I am a great proponent of this method; ask. We have all heard the old saying, ‘no means no,’ but we often don’t realize that the contrapositive of this statement is, ‘yes means yes.’ If you want something, especially of a sexual nature, ask a person for it. Speak directly and clearly and allow the other person a chance to make a decision. If both (or all) people in sexual congress follow this simple rule, then everyone gets to have complete control of their own bodies and make their intentions clear at all time. consent determined.

  11. John, I started explaining why your whole argument was based on the false premise that women exist purely as sexual objects for men. I realized it was a lot of wasted effort on someone who clearly won’t understand. Here is a more simplified response. If you deem a woman provocative, that is your problem, not the woman’s. If I find a guy to be an a-hole, I am not allowed to punch him in the face. If you find a woman provocative, it doesn’t give you permission to touch her.

    • Heterosexual men are attracted to the female body, that is a fact. There is provocative dress, and modest dress. You know what is provocative and what isn’t. It isn’t our problem that you are half-naked and we are attracted to that. How about being considerate to everyone else, women included, that don’t want to see 75% of the skin on your body? I don’t think John once suggested that a woman acting and dressing provocatively gives him permission to touch her, I think his point was more that if you dress to get attention from men/people, you will attract attention even from the men you don’t want attention from: the men who have poor impulse control and can’t keep their hands to themselves.

    • No, I said nothing about women being sexual objects, but only that any adult person is responsible for their sexuality and they are responsible for the power of their personal sexual energies. Provocation is a form of disrespect for oneself and others. I stated that I see her as a very troubled woman looking for trouble with great likelihood of attracting it. There likely will be several victims resulting from this and she is probably more of a perpetrator than an innocent victim. I resent the idea that any adult is granted a ‘victim pass’ just because she is female. She is an adult human being … Act like one.

  12. amy glass says:

    “Sorry, but our system has recognized you may be a spammer. Your comment has been held in our spam moderation queue.”
    No I am not a spammer and can you please release my comment after it is reviewed by a human? I am a regular reader and commenter on the GMP website. Thank you.

  13. “What is so fucking difficult about this concept?” There is a lot of mixed messages being conveyed here and yes it is difficult to figure out. If this young woman is being sexually provocative in a public place while sending the message that she is not being sexual, I detect a bit of cognitive dissonance. All sorts of primal chains are being yanked and everyone is expecting a calm, rational response. I find this very offensive and manipulative. GMP should have more sense and balls than to stoop to this level of gutter emotionality. When did you become the National Enquirer? I expect a higher level of discourse than obvious muckraking and using a semi nude woman’s body to stir the pot.

    • There’s no “cognitive dissonance” here. It’s very, very simple. No matter how “sexually provocative” someone is being, you do not have the right to have sex with them without their consent.

      • Being provocative confuses the message. Please notice that no one in this picture is even attempting to have sex with this crazy woman or even paying her any attention other than the voyeur photographer. As a therapist of mine said, ” if you say crazy things, expect a crazy response.” There is a lot of craziness being expressed here and being naive and feigning innocence is frankly insane. Why aren’t her mother or sisters, friends helping her make better decisions for herself? Crazy attracts like kinds. Yes, as adults, we are responsible for our actions. This is sexual provocation and there really is no sane defense. Again, I fault GMP for stirring this pot with such inflammatory BS.

        • There is no craziness, there is no mixed message. It simply put it does not matter what a woman is or is not wearing that ever conveys the message you can have sex with her. If it does, I think you need to look more about what that says about yourself than about the woman you are looking at.

      • I think it is wise to lock your car door, and hide your cell phone and any other valuables when you leave it. It’s the thief’s fault if he steals my car, but I’m still the one who suffers, so I’ll take as much responsibility for my own actions as I can.

        I think it is wise to lock my doors and windows at my house when I go on vacation. It’s the burglar’s fault if he breaks into my home, but I’m still the one who suffers, so I’ll take as much responsibility for my own actions as I can.

        I think it is wise to look both ways before crossing the street, even in a crosswalk. It’s the driver’s fault if he runs me down in a crosswalk, but I’m still the one who suffers, so I’ll take as much responsibility for my own actions as I can.

        It’s going to be the fault of the rapist 100% of the time, but the victim is the one who suffers 100% of the time. You don’t need to “accept blame” to simply be smart.

        Men aren’t sharks. True. Rapists are. You may not be “asking for it”, but why try to attract that attention? To prove a point? Doesn’t seem too wise to me. You won’t be at fault. You won’t be asking for it, but you will suffer if you ‘get it’.

        And someone please tell me, since when do criminals only “give it” to people who “ask for it”? How hopelessly naive and idealistic can we get here?

    • Chad Geisler says:

      JohnH, why do you automatically assume a topless woman is being sexually provocative? She’s just standing there, having a smoke without a shirt on. Would you say a man doing the same is being sexually provocative? I think it’s time you analyze your own assumptions, your own uncontrolled sexual feelings, and stop making the rest of the world responsible for them. Would a child in a state of undress be sexually provocative? It’s the human body man, lets grow up and stop assuming an uncovered human body is always sexual.

      Also, I hope you know you are essentially saying “she is asking for it.”

    • The message really is simple, and it’s for people like you who find it confusing that we need to make it really REALLY clear.

      A woman can act in the most sexually provocative manner possible, and yet it STILL doesn’t give anybody the right to have sex with them and claim “she was asking for it”.

      IF she is being provocative, AND you approach her like a decent human being AND she agrees to sex .. then all’s fine and dandy.

      IF she’s being provocative, AND you approach her AND she says no… she is not a whore, dick tease, slapper or slut. She’s not asking for it. She’s just being a woman, expressing herself to the world, which is harmless and NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH ASKING FOR IT.

      Is that any clearer?

      • If a woman is being sexually provocative around men but doesn’t want to have sex with any of the men she’s sexually-provoking, then she is BY DEFINITION a tease, or a ‘dick tease’ as you put it. She is not “just being a woman, expressing herself to the world,” she is being inconsiderate to the very men she’s trolling for attention. We don’t want to be distracted by you, we don’t want to see you half-naked. Women demand men be considerate to them and their needs but they don’t give a fuck about being considerate to those same men, who are “just being men” by getting turned on by a half-naked, sexually-provocative woman. Seriously, you know what you’re doing. Knock that shit off, or expect to get attention even from men you don’t want attention from.

        • I don’t think anyone has tried to say you can or can’t get turned on. The point is, if you do get turned on, it is always your problem, not hers. You feel like labeling someone else, that’s fine. The big point is that you are always responsible for your actions. There is no such thing as ‘s/he made me do it!’

    • A woman has bared her breasts. And it seems sufficient to put many in grave difficulty. We have to ask why. If a man has posed the same way, why doesn’t he make news?

      At a different level, if one notices the caption on her skin, she makes it clear that wants people to note those words. I still remember how many men even from the western world expressed why she must be f***ed with no regards of how they are giving their own making away … it is not even passion but the ‘right’ to f*** a body because the breasts were exposed was disturbing … why?

  14. Ben, (in general),men are violent against men and men (in general) are violent against women.
    So, we have to assume that men are more violent than women.

    Please don’t lecture about how unsafe the world is for men. Women grow up being told how careful and aware they have to be in every circumstance. Women are fearful walking down ANY street alone, day or night.

    • Thank you. YES.

    • Mostly_123 says:

      Ann, generally I disagree with you here because (generally) the people who think like you are wrong, and, generally, the people who think like me are right (generally speaking). And I know this because, -generally- there are far more people that share experiences & beliefs like mine, rather than yours, and so my generalizations are broader than your generalizations. Therefore, by the weight of greater generalization, my experiences and perspectives are simply & proportionately more valid compared to yours, generally. 

      Thus (generally speaking) your opinions and arguments have far less weight, and therefore should therefore be taken far less seriously, because, generally, I am speaking with even greater presumptive weight and authority of all other people who think like me, and, generally, by weight of numbers, their experiences and beliefs are, of course, more truthful, and legitimate than yours. 

      In other words, your appeal there to the authority of generalizations and hyperbole is un-compelling and unbecoming (generally speaking). Generally, generalizations don’t add weight or legitimacy or objectivity to one’s own argument or experiences; rather, they expose it as weak, flimsy, biased, and subjective.   

      • You’re speaking generally. I get it. Unfortunately I can’t understand what you wrote because of the distractingly frequent number of times you used the word generally (and variations of). Any chance you could put your point across more succinctly, say in 4 lines or less, and with a maximum of one repetition of *that* word? I think you probably have a good point, if only it could be understood 🙂

        • Mostly_123 says:

          “You’re speaking generally. I get it… Any chance you could put your point across more succinctly, say in 4 lines or less, and with a maximum of one repetition of that word?”

          ..No.

    • Greg Allan says:

      “Please don’t lecture about how unsafe the world is for men. Women grow up being told how careful and aware they have to be in every circumstance. Women are fearful walking down ANY street alone, day or night.”

      The majority of the victims of violence committed by males are male. The majority of the victims of violence committed by females are male.

    • So amy, you would say it better to be blissfully ignorant of the dangers you are likely to face rather than be aware of them?
      Because that is it sounds like as is the case with men.
      Do you really want to make it so women are unafraid of the real dangers they might encounter; not remove the dangers and make their environment safer but simply remove the public awareness of those dangers just so women do not experience fear and inhibition?
      What of the possibility of that removing the social awareness of the issue would also remove the social networks that were trying to help alleviate these issues as men lack public aid for dealing with violence that women have.
      Between the two sexes, men are both likely to be the primary aggressor and the primary target of aggression. women are both the less likely source and object of agression as the minority of women that do commit violence do so against men more than women.

    • Courtney Lee says:

      Ann your reluctance to acknowledge that men face dangers in this world too kind of worries me slightly. “Please don’t lecture about how unsafe the world is for men. Women grow up being told how careful and aware they have to be in every circumstance. Women are fearful walking down ANY street alone, day or night.” …i mean, seriously? what the fuck kind of a comment is that?

    • In my experience women are more violent than men.

    • Being this is a man’s space – men too also have this issue.

  15. This whole thing is so misguided. Most men don’t go around raping people. Just like most men don’t go around killing people. Not because a basic drive to have sex and gouge our rivals doesn’t exist but because the majority of humans are decent and have enough empathy to feel and imagine even some of the terror and emotional pain they would cause by doing it, and therefore would not do it because they understand at least a bit of how awful it would be to be the subject of such an attack, man or woman. Unfortunately, there is a certain percentage of people who simply do not have the emotional intelligence to make that distinction, and even those who ENJOY causing other people pain. This is not just about men attacking women, it is about the small percentage of humans who don’t have the non-violence filter aligned correctly. You really think women suffer more violence at the hands of men, than men do????? Of course not. Men are far more frequently brutal towards each other. It’s not a “woman’s” issue. It’s an issue of violence which affects everyone. To that end, yes, ideally women should be able to walk around naked, but given that that small percentage of people will always exist…you’re not asking for it, but fucking hell, help yourself and don’t make yourself an obvious target just to make a misguided point about how awful men’s attitudes are towards you. “Men” aren’t the problem. I don’t walk through a rough neighbourhood waving my wallet above my head, talking loudly on my iPhone about how much my watch costs. Because, whilst most people in that neighbourhood would leave me be, I know there are a few dangerous people in it and a couple would probably, on impulse, attack me and take my stuff. So I do MY part to keep myself safe. I take, not all, but A SHARE of responsibility for what happens to me because I’m an adult and I realise life isn’t perfect, it isn’t fair, and the I HAVE THE RIGHT TO FEEL SAFE argument is simply not a reality for ANYONE!!! Quite frankly it’s childish and ill-thought out.

    • Oh, thank God we have Ben here to remind us that not-literally-every-single-solitary man is an, ahem, legitimate rapist. And to remind us to pay attention to the victims who actually matter, i.e., men who are the victims of male violence. Bravo, good sir. Godspeed.

    • Ben, thank you for your comment. You’ve adeptly put into words my feelings about the topic which I was never quite able to articulate.

      • Mostly_123 says:

        I very much agree with Kaitlyn there- good comment Ben.

        • I think that Kaitlyn’s sarcasm went right over your head.

          • I think that your presumption that Kaitlyn is being sarcastic rather than expressing herself clearly and directly is kind of arrogant. The equivalent of assuming a person saying ‘no’ actually means ‘yes’

            • Mostly_123 says:

              Thanks Richard- I very much agree with your rationale there, and I thought you made a good point about the dangers of simply blindly assuming another person’s insincerity and/or cynicism- Unless, of course, you yourself were being sarcastic; in which case it went over my head (or, over my head again) – but either way, good on you.

    • anonymous says:

      Ben, you are missing the point. I do agree in protecting yourself, but, women are raped no matter how much, or how little clothing they wear. When a women is raped, the first question most ask is “what was she wearing?” As if what a women wears in any indication of what she “wants.” When a man is raped, because, yes, it does happen, do people ask that same question?

      • amy glass says:

        “When a man is raped, because, yes, it does happen, do people ask that same question?”
        No, people don’t ask the same question about what he was wearing because mostly, people don’t even believe him and they make fun of him for being raped. Raped men have little to no resources available to them, and they are usually the butt of jokes, because society is unwilling to acknowledge them. Acknowledging that men can be raped and be victims of domestic violence means acknowledging that women can be rapists and violent and society is not comfortable acknowledging that.

        • Amy, you are assuming that those raping men are women.
          I think that is not a valid assumption.

          • So, a woman couldn’t drug, restrain, forcibly incite an erection (it IS possible, it’s a PHYSICAL reaction to stimulus that DOES NOT require a man also be mentally acquiescent or EVEN CONSCIOUS), and then rape via envelopment? Or, hell, even rape with a foreign object, lacking a penis?

            Some women rape, too. We can’t even say that they “may not commit acts of sexual assault in as high numbers as men” because we refuse, as a society, to acknowledge that men can be rape victims and women can be rapists, so we try to avoid keeping records and statistics on things like that, and we discourage other people from doing so themselves.

          • I think Amy’s point stands whether male rape victims are as a result of female, or male aggressors. Whoever attacked the man, the fact that he is a male means that a) he’s less likely to be taken seriously and b) it’s really unlikely that it will be implied that he was asking for it by not covering up or dressing too provocatively.

    • Great post, Ben.

      • No, it’s not. Ben’s comment is terrible.

        • Ditto. Ben’s comment is terrible. Wear whatever the f*** you want. walk around waving your wallet around and talking loudly in your new iphone about your expensive watch. Rape, theft, assault, the blame lies entirely at the door or the perpetrator not the victim. I don’t ever want to hear of another court case where the defence even tries to say “but she (or he) was asking for it because they wore the wrong/not enough clothes.” Until the attitude of those defence teams and people like Ben’s comments are changed, we need to keep banging on about this. It won’t stop rape, because rape isn’t about the clothes people wear, it’s about power and control. That’s kinda the point really. What’s wrong is the attacker’s actions, not the victim’s clothes.

    • Ben, I’m going to take a wild guess and say you are a white guy like me. The day that black guys can argue with cops just like you and I can, without getting arrested, tased, or shot, I will agree with you. Women (and yes, men) get raped and experience other forms of violence and harassment no matter how much they protect themselves, and how much they protect themselves isn’t as important a factor in how much rape happens as is the culture that supports the assholes doing it.

    • You are utterly missing the point Ben. Women have been accused in the past of ‘asking for it’ because they were wearing a short skirt, had a few too many drinks etc etc. The point of these is to highlight that at no point does a women ever asked to be raped.

    • You contradict yourself. You are still blaming the victim for what the attacker did. The fact is, no one is ever a hard enough target to prevent an attack. If someone wants to victimize you, they will. Period. You have no say, no choice, and no responsibility. It is natural to think, “I could have done this,” or, “it never would have happened if s/he didn’t do this,” but it’s flawed logic and must be recognized as such. The victim is the victim and the attacker is the attacker. There is no grey here.

  16. Anonymous says:

    but is she asking for lung cancer?

  17. Elysia Annacini Paladino says:

    Love this. I agree that I’m not asking for sex when I’m naked and vulnerable. The naked body doesn’t always mean sex. Sex is only to be mutually agreed on, not stolen or forced, definitely not drugging anybody into. Trying to feel liberated though still loving men, people, and their body image, doesn’t mean a woman is asking for sex.

  18. Theorema Egregium says:

    While we are on the topic, last week for the first time in my life I heard one of those fabled “rape jokes” that everybody is talking about. I mean, rape threats, I knew they exist, I have seen them (against both men and women), but as something meant to be funny it was a first. It was Joan Rivers in her fashion show on E! who said, “At a court of law this dress would be considered consent.”

    Nobody called her out on it. Guess there’s advantages to being a woman.

  19. Actually JohnH, recent research has actually proved that it’s a myth that most people who rape or sexaully assault someone have been abused themselves when they were younger. They’ve found that often, the perpetrator will falsely claim they have been abused to gain leniency.

  20. Our bodies are ours alone and to share with intimate others. To use one’s body as a social message, demeans the sacredness of one’s personality relegating it to a social “experience”. Yes, she is asking for something, certainly attention. What attention she receives will vary as to observer. The “it” of the message I would assume is violation and rape. This has less to do with the body and more to do with one’s soul and spirit. We can be sexually violated, but all violation involves violence and control. Most rapists and victims have been previously, usually as adolescents and children, sexually and emotionally violated. Our ego defences were shattered before they were fully developed and rather than own our own violation, we violate others to lessen the pain and stress. I can most assuredly bet that the woman in this photo was either sexually or emotionally abused in her childhood. Rapists are born of violence and will sow that seed into future generations. To stop rape, we need to stop family violence. Anything else is just smoke and mirrors obscuring the true cause of the shame and suffering.

  21. Troy Fowler says:

    This has two parts too it, while no, no women is “asking” to be raped-you must realize that a certain percent of the population is likely to be a rapist. (That percentage is, depending on what statistics you want to use, anywhere from 1 in 6, to under 1%. You should take adequate protection to defend off the small portion of society, and you can do that by not sticking out so much. When you stick out, they go after that (Staistically, again.)

    But the second question is more of a personal thing. They all seem to freak out when men look, yet they wear either flashy clothing, or no clothing. Young men, and even women, are very subseptible to what they see. Thereby, you shouldn’t be offended if you stick out, and people look. But you should protect yourself from the people who wish to do more then look.

  22. concerned cynic says:

    By the end of this century, the right of women in western societies to recreate naked in hot weather will be widely recognised. This right will not be exercised everywhere and always, but the notion that an adult woman’s naked body body is per se indecent will die. Indecent exposure will be limited to women under some age.

    The English speaking countries will more or less converge on the status quo that prevails nowadays in central and eastern Europe, and on most Mediterranean beaches. In German forests on a sunny summer day, one often encounters mature women wearing nothing but sandals. Women will be naked on beaches that cannot be seen by motorists, indoor pools, secluded meadows in parks, and on wilderness trails.

    Women are tired of covering themselves merely because men have violent and immature urges. This human journey began with the Australian Annette Kellerman, one of the very women to swim races, designing the first knit tank suit in 1907. Digicam images, defused via the internet, have already killed off the ability to charge money to view a woman’s nude body — this is a good thing. This decade, the gods of the internet stopped censoring women’s buttocks. Sometime next decade, the duct tape on the nipples will go. By 2050, women will bare all. Many comments left in social media have convinced me that many women see their being naked as liberating, as a sign of strength.

    • Samantha says:

      Men do not have violent and immature urges. They make choices as anyone would, even if their alcohol consumption renders these choices less wise. I’d love to wear less, especially when it’s hot outside…. But even my boyfriend is against it because he is aware how men choose to act around someone like me; he is afraid for my safety even when we are out together.

      .It should never have to be that way. The men who make these choices are th

  23. Still noone wants her.

  24. JackJay says:

    This is a stupid thing to fight for, and I can not believe it has even become an argument. No one has said that women “deserve to be raped”. “Asking for it” means and has always meant that you are increasing your chances of a negative outcome. Was it poorly stated? Yes, get over it.

    • Many people still say and believe women (and men) deserve to be raped. They blame the victim all the time. You must be new.

      • who? Where are these people that say women deserve to be raped?
        I’ve never, ever, in my whole life met a single person, male or female, that says women deserve to be raped.

        • furthermore, i challenge you to find one person, without a mental illness, that is willing to stand up and say women deserve to be raped.
          Come on, you’ve said many people still say and believe women deserve to be raped.
          Obviously if you’re stating this, you’ve heard people say women deserve to be raped, and for you to say MANY people, makes me think you’ve heard more than one person say it. Come on then. Who, who are these mythical people that say this.

  25. Samantha says:

    As a woman, I feel threatened sexually by men nearly every time I go out, and I always wear long sleeves, no cleavage, long jeans. The men are drunk most of the times they grab my ass, wag their tongue at me, whistle or stare the entire time I’m in their presence.

    No, most men are not like this… But some men are. My friends had to stop a sober man from trying to rape me when I was passed out at their home on their couch once. He was kicked out afterwards, but the point is this is still a very real problem.

    Not all men are at fault, but I do feel it’s courteous to try to stop the men who are like this. Most of the time I am treated this way, their friends ignore it. I have never even talked to these people before, I was never staring at them. I do have a perfect hourglass figure, a shapely bum and proportionate breast size. My face has symmetrical bone structure, high cheek bones, full lips, light green eyes. But none of that should make me deserve this.

    It doesn’t matter how much clothing she’s wearing. It’s wrong either or any way you look at it.

    If you see it happening, say something, stop the perpetrator, do what needs be done. Everyone has things to learn yet in their life; at least say “that’s not how you reel in a lady” or something.

    I can’t believe this is still being argued about when I see this happen so much it’s only common sense most other people see it happen as well. If you don’t act this way towards women, don’t be offended…

    • Theorema Egregium says:

      If you don’t act this way towards women, don’t be offended…

      That sounds all hunky-dory, but the truth is apparently not acting that way is not nearly enough. You said so yourself! It is a man’s duty to protect women from the bad men. I have seen websites where the failure to be an activist against sexual violence is declared to be equal in offence to being a sexual predator yourself. Tonight I will enjoy a quiet evening on the sofa, but maybe that means I am a deplorable villain, because what I ought to be doing is to be on patrol like Batman to rescue female strangers?

      • She was clearly saying she finds it courteous when you tell your OWN FRIENDS to stop harassing people right in front of you? She was clearly just asking.
        It is every human’s better choice to step up and do what you can, if you can, when someone is being treated poorly… or is just about to get raped. As a woman, I would definitely do what I can to save a woman, man, child or even animal.
        But it seems like it is really very difficult for many American men to understand that they can make a difference. In fact, many seems like they have that lack of empathy towards women. The stereotype is many times real, unfortunately. It seems like many of them don’t want it to change, or even want women to keep being treated this way. They could care less, even saying a “not good” is too much.
        Understand that, when a male talk to another male (and the types to mistreat women would be definitely the ones that could care less about a woman trying to explain anything to him), usually that has more weight. The same goes for women talking to other women. We can help each other by helping the members of our own “social groups” to stop mistreating the other sex, sexual orientation, race, etc.
        I am sorry to know your choice is to never help anyone (or only women, who knows).

    • concerned cynic says:

      I invite you to change the sort of people you mix with.
      Also be very careful how much you drink around males.
      The kind of men you describe are the sorts I have pretty much avoided for 30 years.

      • Samantha says:

        I avoid them. I live in a lightly populated area where these types of men are everywhere. They are the ones who should drink less. I hardly drink at all, I just like to catch up with friends I haven’t seen all year, on the holidays. I would go elsewhere, but that place does not exist. I don’t know why you bothered to write this, thinking I hadn’t considered these things… I am not some dumb whore as many men love to believe.

  26. Deejay says:

    I understand what STFU says, I agree the point of view is right but I think its impractical as its a utopian thought. Taking STFU’s example, you dont own the money just because its lying in the bank. True. But that does not meant that the bank stops protecting it. The bank has no right of saying “STILL NOT ASKING FOR IT” when the money is stolen. No point then saying stealing is wrong.
    Everything valuable to you MUST be protected from the potential threats, thats your job.

    • Josh K. says:

      And people do try to protect themselves from rape, dude, all the time.
      You can’t lock your body (unless you want people to wear chastity belts again) like you would your car. You can’t leave your body secure at your home when leaving your house like you would do your gold necklace. And even if you cover your body – any rapist would know you still have a body underneath your clothes, unlike when you hide your money in your pockets so no one knows you have money with you.
      People are still saying rapists go for the less clothed individuals, but that is just a false opinion. Of course it can be true in some rare cases, but most likely not. And also – still blaming and shaming the victim, telling they were asking for it. That is the problem being discussed here.

  27. Josh K. says:

    I wonder if Tom Brechlin and John Anderson are the same person?

  28. Wildman says:

    It’s sad that she felt the need to cover her nipples. It probably has something to do with the normality of male circumcision in the states.

    • “It’s sad that she felt the need to cover her nipples. It probably has something to do with the normality of male circumcision in the states.”
      Uh, what? No really, I am really curious, what did you mean by that? Was just sarcasm, or…?

  29. Charles says:

    Smoking a cigarette, I see. Smoking is bad!

  30. Daniel says:

    The more naked people we see walking around the less sexually charged nudity will be.

  31. Who in their right mind would want to go near a woman like her? The risk, is far too great.

    • Attila, that’s a very strange comment to make, especially considering you’re representing the Toronto Domestic Violence Symposium. What do you mean by risk?

  32. I Just Fapped

  33. In Portland Oregon, It is legal to naked as long as you are not doing it for arousal (no signs of arousal such as erection or masturbation/ fondling). I mean fully naked. It still does not say a person is asking for it. No one is asking for i unless they say “I want it”. Rapists are to blame solely.

  34. Desi Bradley says:

    Interesting responses here. I love that the GMP audience has so many self-aware men who recognize the cultural norms that support rape culture. Y’all are fighting the good fight! To those who are offended by the message, or react defensively, I imagine that you’re just having trouble viewing this message through the lens of rape culture. I’m not surprised. Our privileges are almost always invisible to us–until they aren’t. Clearly the original image here isn’t to say that nudity won’t garner this woman attention. In fact, just the opposite–OBVIOUSLY it’s INTENDED to garner attention. What it is saying is that whatever attention you pay it or attraction it garners, or how it titillates you (or not!) you are not entitled to the body that inspired those feelings. And yeah, it’s highly gendered though NOT gender-specific. I say well done, STFU!

  35. It depends on your intention, clearly.

  36. If someone robs a bank, the police don’t ask what kind of advertising the bank was using. The District Attorney doesn’t say they won’t prosecute because the bank was located on a main thoroughfare and, thus, was just asking to be robbed. Apparently, banks are more privileged than women.

    • Theorema Egregium says:

      Of course they are. When they crash due to criminal activities and lose billions they will be bailed out by taxpayer money. This is true in every country. Can anyone be more privileged than that?

  37. All this talk about about self control is amusing considering the present state of our society which actually teaches the opposite. You can go to those various tribes where many run around nude and not see men raping every woman they see. Here though, it’s a subject of taboo. Here however, the body is purposely used in marketing to promote a culture of sex. It’s been like that for quite sometime now. People are no longer taught what self control is but are still expected to exhibit it. Sounds legit. Sometimes, even when we are being chivalrous, we are accused of just being after, well, your body. As long as Hollywood and our society keep stereotyping men as sex crazed zombies, there will always be a growing number of people who strive to live the stereotype. This is what boys grow up believing, that men are supposed to be sex crazed lunatics and as a result, they lose the ability to think for themselves. We all have to change. Not just men. Not just women. We have to change as a society as a whole. We’ve sexualized our world. So I’d doesn’t shock me in the slightest when someone takes it too far. It’s sad, it needs to stop, but we all have a responsibility to stop it and pointing fingers doesn’t do anything.

  38. Most rape cases are date rape cases. This is something that people need to address, not the stranger attack in a dark alley cases. If a woman goes out with a man, takes him home, or goes to his home, becomes sexually engaged with him behind closed doors she should be aware that saying no isn’t always going to go over well. Another issue is the games women play with men, such as being ‘hard to get’ telling them no when they really mean yes. Saying ‘well I usually don’t do this’ when they actually do and were hoping for it. This has created an air that the rejection is just a part of the dating game, just a step on the way to their final goal.

    If this woman were laying in a bed nude with a condom next to her kissing a man, engaged in foreplay then she said no then he should stop right? If he decides she means yes and goes forward against her very vocal and physical no then yes he committed a crime. But would he have been in a position to commit that crime if she had left her clothes on, turned around at the door to the apartment, and never went beyond kissing?

    Its not creating a rape culture telling women to stop putting themselves in positions where there’s a high probability of it happening; its creating an alert and self aware culture that will lead to less cases of bad decisions getting worse.

    I learned the hard way years ago when I started something that it turned out I didn’t want to finish. My friend warned me but I thought ‘its okay he said he respects me’. I was lucky that his roommate was home that night when I was half naked and we were both highly intoxicated and decided i didn’t want to be there. I learned why I was told not to make out with a boy alone and by not repeating that behavior I did not face that problem again. There’s not much to do to a potential random rapist but I can do more to lesson my chances of date rape.

  39. what exactly isn’t she asking for here? Because if she said she wasn’t asking for people to stare at her breasts, she’s lying

    • Anonymous says:

      When you go to the beach and remove your shirt to cool off in the water, are you asking people to stare at your breasts (men have them, too) or are you simply going for a dip? That you conflate toplessness with “asking for attention” is what she is protesting. Men don’t usually have to think about being violent sex victims, thus have fewer social concerns than do many women.

      • John Anderson says:

        And if a woman looks, you’re not complaining about being objectified. I think that’s Danny’s (completely missing the) point. My opinion rests on whether the laws allow her to do that. If it’s illegal for her to go topless in her area then she’s sexually harassing the general public. They have a reasonable expectation to be protected from that.

        • Josh K. says:

          Some men may complain about objectification or invasive looks, even more when someone keeps staring. But then again, men’s chest is not stigmatized the same.
          And she was protesting. My curiosity rests on whether you believe the laws should allow her to do that?

          • John Anderson says:

            @ Josh K

            The laws definitely should allow her to go topless. Are you suggesting a jury nullification type argument? If the laws are unjust, she’s not guilty of a crime.

      • THIS. Everybody kindly read the above and stop confusing the issue.

    • No, not everyone that goes topless or naked or whatever is ASKING for anyone to stare at their bodies. Stop projecting.

  40. If I offered my full support for her cause by holding up a black pen and offering to help her with her sign, would I be a good man or a street harasser?

    • Sarcastic plus street harasser

      • Oh? Why?

      • I can see how you might conclude that I was being sarcastic, but I would in fact be quite sincere. There’s no reason I can’t be supportive and enjoy being supportive.

        Anyway, let’s say offering to freshen up her sign is inappropriate. How about clapping? What ways of supporting her tactics are acceptable and which ones are not?

        Actually, an even better question — what if the person who took this photo was a man? Is he a pervert, a harasser, a supporter, or….?

    • Men always trying to change the subject when it comes to women’s rights and their bodies. That is all a joke to many of you, uh. Tiresome.

      “What ways of supporting her tactics are acceptable and which ones are not?” Any way that is not a stupid way, I guess. Maybe you could ask her about that. You could be shirtless beside her, doing the same.

      “Actually, an even better question — what if the person who took this photo was a man? Is he a pervert, a harasser, a supporter, or….?” How could we know? We need to know the photographer first. We can’t know their gender or personality, even less if they have any moral deficiency, only by looking at the photo.

  41. wellokaythen says:

    I totally agree about the “shark and the meat suit” metaphor being stupid. What women wear or not is not the reason women are raped. That’s seems to me really obvious, though.

    I wonder about something a little less obvious, something I think is related but different: what about staring?

    Isn’t walking around naked inviting more *stares* than if you walked around clothed? She’s not asking for men to look at her breasts, either, but I think most of us would accept that she’ll probably get some ogling. If you expect me not to notice her boobs more than I would otherwise, then I think you’re being unrealistic. If you expect me not to peer longer to see what else I can see, then you’re being unrealistic.

    As for legality, where I live you are allowed to walk around naked in public in some cases if you’re wearing paint over certain body parts. Apparently there’s a loophole where “painted” counts as “not nude.” Also a related loophole that allows people to bike naked, as they do once a year at a local bike parade.

    • Isn’t being attractive or having big boobs inviting more stares too? Where does this end? Having a deformity also “invites more stares” but are you going to blame someone for it? If not why would you blame a woman for her body in it’s natural state? The reason they would get more stares is because it’s an uncommon sight in public.

  42. In response to john,
    Why?
    Who?
    What?
    When?
    Why must we be this way of ‘social normal’? Tiny, skimpy dresses are ‘appropriate’ and sold everywhere! I just want to decide what I wear! I hate that the option of length has been taken away (dress lengths for example so I’m fucking freezing all the time I have to wear a long sleeve top under my dress and leggings so I’m basically wearing long johns under tiny dresses not made for a normal sized woman just so I can feel pretty!)
    Who the fuck gives anyone the right to rape another person? I certainly don’t say to my gfs or bfs on a hot day “ooh look he’s wearing short shorts, I think I’d enjoy hitting that,” ask their name, make them smile and don’t ask them out on the spot, it’s fucking creepy. Bring back courtship and chivalry! Girls and guys.
    What will you do if someone needs help? For gods sake be a man, help them!
    When will people wake up and be nice? Stop mistaking being nice for flirting. They’re not the same thing!

    • i’m happy to continue the discussion with you, but i’d prefer you didn’t swear.
      Why are there social norms? i don’t know, but there are. I can’t walk around town without any pants on, i’d certainly be asking for trouble.
      I don’t believe anyone has the right to rape another person, male or female, just the same way i don’t believe anyone has the right to assault another person, but guess what, this is a big world, and it happens.
      I certainly don’t say to my gfs or bfs on a hot day “ooh look he’s wearing short shorts, I think I’d enjoy hitting that,” either, and i don’t think i’ve ever met someone who would.

      • The woman in the picture is definitely wear pants. The issue is, why is the female body so sexualized when men can run around half naked. It’s a complete double standard and a “social norm” that’s crap. There is no reason that a woman cannot walk around showing their nongenitals(breasts). Our society needs to calm down and realize that women’s bodies aren’t something to be ashamed of or overly sexualized. Your “social norm” crap is what needs to change.

    • Sooo many men mistake being nice for flirting and basically overestimate the amount of interest a woman has in them. It’s frankly just plain egotistical for them to assume that being nice = coming on to them. Some people are just friendly and decent.

  43. she may not be asking for ‘IT’, but i suggest anyone walking around like that in any western country is asking for trouble in some kind.

    • Mark Greene says:

      By that you mean she actually is “requesting that something bad happen to her?” Now, do you see how fucked up that is? That you would say what you said in the way that you said it? This is why women do this protest in this way, so that we can expose how some men think about sexuality, nudity, the human body and punishing women who do not conform to this free floating idea of “morality.” Yes, you wouldn’t punish her yourself, but someone would because that’s the way people are…

      • it’s not about sexuality, its about appropriateness and social norms. It’s simply in-appropriate to walk around without a top in most social situations.

        • Social norms are a man made concept, which are constantly in fluctuation. For example gay people were not allowed to marry in any state at all, because that was super “not normal” to a lot of people, now look the law changed. You could even go a step further, and recall when it was wrong for women to wear pants, that was once a social norm. And obviously this girl doesn’t go around topless everyday. She’s making the point that my naked body is not a good reason to act like an animal. She’s creating change for the better, embrace it instead of shitting on it.

          • i wonder what would happen if i asked a woman to walk around like that?

          • Anonymous says:

            I wonder if a fetus has the same rights to their body? or do these same kinda rights apply to people who have guns? or to people who have money that other people believe they are entitkled to…?? just askin’

        • Jennifer G. says:

          Who cares if ‘It is not about sexuality, it is about appropriateness and social norms’? Who decides this? ‘It is simply in-appropriate to walk around without a top in most social situations.’ That applies to men and to women, I would say. Another view is: If it is offensive to the viewer, then he has an ethical and moral responsibility to avert his eyes.

    • AgoraCobra says:

      There is no such thing as “asking for trouble”. Period. No excuses, no justifications, not acceptable ever. While there are other reasons not to run around with it “all hanging out,” (personal dignity being one of them) no person ever gets to breach the boundaries of another person’s body without their specific permission. And “asking for trouble” does NOT count as permission. Full stop.
      Speaking of “full stop”, YOU should stop digging this hole you are putting yourself into before your ignorance gets YOU into trouble.

      • John Anderson says:

        @ AgoraCobra

        What if a guy was wearing one of those don’t feed the sorority girls shirts? Does that give you license to confront him? Would it be OK to verbally respond to it in an indirect way or is it something you need to accept and go about your way because it’s his right to wear what he wants?

      • sorry, but you’re either naive, or living in a fantasy world if you think people should be able to do whatever they like without any repercussions. It’s great that you believe we live in the world where everyone has upstanding morals, and no-one is out to do the wrong thing, but I can think of many occasions where i believe it is acceptable to “breach the boundaries of another person’s body without their specific permission”, If i break into your house in the middle of the night, you’d be happy letting me go about my business without confronting me?

        • There’s a huge difference between someone breaking into my house while actually being threatening vs. someone walking around minding their own business on their own time while 1/2 naked.

          If you’re trying to make excuses for rape, you’re doing it wrong.

          • no, i’m not making excuses for rape, and if you actually read what i wrote, you would see that. I’m against people making ridiculous, grandiose statements that don’t add anything to the discussion.
            You will see i’m replying to the comment that – “no person ever gets to breach the boundaries of another person’s body without their specific permission”
            Yeah, great, if you live in some Utopia that doesn’t actually exist, but i’ve just countered that argument, simply and succinctly by giving an example where the original poster would agree to be a time where one could justifiably “breach the boundaries of another person’s body without their specific permission.

            I’m also not sure of any cases where a person has been raped purely because they are walking around 1/2 naked, so if you’re trying to conjure up a decent discussion, you’re doing it wrong

      • Anonymous says:

        Agreed!!!

      • I think the main point she’s trying to make is that there’s a difference between “attention” and “trouble,” or at least there should be. She’s suggesting that drawing attention to oneself is NOT the same as asking to be raped. (There’s actually no such thing as asking to be raped, because by definition you can’t consent to be raped.)

        If people can’t tell the difference between “attention” and “sexual assault” then obviously that is an enormous problem.

        • Another way to put it:

          What is the “it” that we think she’s asking for or not asking for?

          • I am guessing they mean that by being naked they are making themselves a target more so than others for those who harass women? They don’t “ask” for trouble but it is more risky for instance to walk alone at night in darkly lit areas than daylight in large crowds probably.

            It’s expected that walking topless will get more looks but people should control their hands, voices, etc and not harass people over it. I’ve seen topless women before, a quick glance in admiration and then go about your business as usual. Even with a high level of attraction to them I still saw them as HUMANS who deserve love n respect like all of us do, I didn’t comment about the breasts, I didn’t touch them without permission, I didn’t stare (I usually look more towards eyes anyway especially if talking to people). It’s not that hard to “control” urges, but then my urges are to treat people like humans and watch out for others. My urge would be to go off at anyone that tried to grope them or harass them, cuz the harassers are “asking for it” 😉

  44. this situation definitely has me thinking terrible thoughts, and I do have self control but some dont have the same strength. Do you walk around with your bank account balance on your shirt? Do you cook in front of starving adults? I understand that we are not entitled to someone else’s body, but why tempt/entrap people?
    We are not all sane and some of us do act on pure instinct hence the need jails/hospitals. Good luck to any and that choose to put themselves through unnecessary risks.

    • Mark Greene says:

      Get a grip, Joe. Control yourself. Stop making excuses for yourself and other men who just want to be animals. Just get a damn grip.

      • is it alright for children,..or prepubescent boys to be around this idea in public?

        • jewelbomb says:

          The idea that rape is wrong no matter what the circumstances? Seems like a pretty good idea to impart to prepubescent young boys.

      • JewooYu says:

        *Doesn’t understand some people’s brains are wired differently, so their values, and life outlook is permanently different from the accepted norm. You can’t change these people’s thoughts. Its up to them to self control.

        • jewelbomb says:

          In addition to being rather condescending, your response is simply incorrect. By your logic, no one should do anything to incite any social change because, um, “people’s brains are wired differently.” Sorry, but one certainly can help create a climate that will change people’s thoughts. 50 years ago, homosexuality was a major taboo in America; today, a majority of Americans support gay marriage. Things change and activism helps change them.

    • do people who rob you not get prosecuted because you told them you have money?

  45. Alec Forbes says:

    Isn’t this photo several years old now? Not comprehending what’s prompted this to make the rounds now.

    • AgoraCobra says:

      Um, I dunno, maybe because the issue HASN’T BEEN RESOLVED YET??

      • what exactly is the issue that this young lady is trying to resolve here?

        • jewelbomb says:

          Hmm…I don’t know. How about the pervasive rape culture in this country? How is that difficult to apprehend?

          • Rape culture is pervasive everywhere in the world. It is unfortunate that many people don’t realize it. However, there was no need to insult in response to his question. He was just clarifying his understanding of what AgoraCobra pointed out.

            (Similarly, AgoraCobra could have responded with something better than condescension.)

            S.W.

          • Right. Because if we all go topless, then nobody will ever be raped again. Problem solved.

      • JewooYu says:

        There is no “rape culture”, and no matter how many laws are passed, and social justice movements undertaken, those who would commit sexual assault, female or male, will still do so. Telling people not to rape literally doesn’t work because they either go, “uhhh Duh?”, or they continue to harm people. A rapist isn’t going to see one of these parades/events and suddenly go, “oh shit, maybe I shouldn’t rape people.” Is awareness of these societal issues a good thing? Yes. But to act like these social justice events will change someone set in their ways is ridiculous. Unless we turn to eugenics and selective breeding, Humanity will always bear evil fruit among the good.

        • jewelbomb says:

          Of course there is a rape culture in this country, Merely saying something doesn’t exist isn’t evidence of its absence. In fact your comment itself is somewhat indicative of how rape culture is perpetuated. Further, by your logic, we shouldn’t have laws against murder (or anything else) because people either go “Duh” or continue to harm people. Other wise, did it ever occur to you that this isn’t all about the rapist. Perhaps activism such as this will help victims feel less ashamed or alone.

          • Did you just say that disagreeing with the concept of rape culture is evidence of its existence?

            Laws provide penalty for actions. Your analogy is flawed.

            • jewelbomb says:

              No, I didn’t say that disagreeing with the concept of rape culture is evidence of its existence. I said, that the comment (in its entirety) is indicative of how such a rape culture is perpetuated. The comment was essentially made to denigrate glibly the effectiveness of social activism and to say that rape will be pervasive no matter what. I’m sorry but this attitude very much leads to the furtherance of a culture of silence and inevitability surrounding rape. How could it not?

              Further, my analogy is in no way flawed. The poster made some nonsense argument that wanting to rape is somehow genetic (ergo it could be eliminated by “Eugenics” or “selective breeding”). Sorry, but this is absolute bullshit. While rape will probably never be eliminated entirely, social coercion (be it through laws, public shaming, ostracism, or other means) has proven to be very effective in reducing socially deleterious behaviors. Try again.

        • Josh K. says:

          It is not exactly about telling rapists not to rape. Of course, if they are already broken that is difficult to get them back on track.
          That is about education, teaching about consent, teaching about one’s rights over their bodies, about how blaming and shaming the victim is wrong. And yes, the more we educate people in that way, the less rapists/sexual offenders we will have. We will never be 100% free, but the less the better, I guess? You don’t have to trust me, just search for statistics in other more socially and educationally developed Countries, and how they manage it, what makes them have considerably less sexual assault, blame the victim much less, etc.

        • There is very much a rape culture. Women are taught how to not be raped, instead of teaching men to not rape. Why should women always have to be on guard for rape? The problem is the rapist, not the victim. There is a huge gray area with rape. A large percentage of men don’t always know what they are doing constitutes rape. When you simply tell someone “Don’t rape.” They picture violent, black and white, forcing yourself upon someone rape. The reality is, most rape (especially in college) is not so easily distinguished as such. Say a guy meets a girl at a party. Both have been drinking. He takes her home. They start kissing and things progress. She tries to stop him, but he persists…eventually she gives in, but not willingly. Is that rape? Yes, it is…. It’s all about consent…if you want to go further…ask her. Men need to be taught that a drunk hookup can still be rape. It’s not as simple as telling someone to not rape, you need to teach them the many different things that constitute rape and how to get consent. You are still going to have people out there who willing rape…but if you teach 100 men in a classroom to not rape, as well as teaching women how to avoid getting raped and it prevents even 1 rape…then it’s working.

          • Al Porter says:

            Rape is a violent crime committed by sociopaths. And that’s it. The “rape culture” hysteria is about money and manipulation let by powerful feminists and those who pander to them. They want to denigrate men at every turn. The scenario you just referenced is consensual sex. And if they are both drunk how do you know who raped who? We need to teach women self defense. Fight back, spray mace, leave a mark so investigators know that there was conflict. Scream. Call 911 or go to the hospital or clinic right away. That’s how to protect against rape.

            • Youre deluded or evil if you think that “…eventually she gives in, but not willingly” describes consensual sex. So it’s ok to force someone until they stop fighting back? Many MANY people are not capable of physical responses in that type of situation due to past traumas. It falls upon all of us to actively seek consent and stop advancing if we consent is not expressly given. The idea that “not fighting back = consent” IS rape culture.

            • Tom Brechlin says:

              Al Porter, you said “Fight back, spray mace, leave a mark so investigators know that there was conflict. Scream.” This brought to mind an incident where my wife was attacked on an elevator.Keep in mind that she’s 4’11” and this happen almost 40 years ago. As she told the police, you’ll recognize him because he has scratches on both sides of his face. She always has beautiful nails, who knew they’re both pretty AND useful.

            • Most rapists are not sociopaths, dude. We even know of some societies where, unfortunately, raping girls and women is the rule. Yes, they were socially conditioned to act like that.
              The problem is, even today, some people are still conditioned to misinterpret what consent is. We are conditioned to think forcing is okay. You see, you did it yourself.
              And we should protest against victim blaming and shame – that is what the woman in the picture was doing. That is really important and necessary. We should protest for better sexual education. We are not protesting and asking rapists to stop raping – that would be useless.

    • Its a young attractive women in a sexy state of undress attached to a feel good about yourself movement… this pic is going to be around for a very long time.
      I wonder if the women consented to that?

  46. courage the cowardly dog says:

    Where I live (Columbus OH), women are entitled to go topless if they so choose. – See more at: http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/still-asking-photo-stfus-response-gmp/#sthash.t1GaogVB.dpuf

    So if it is legal and not offensive I guess most women go topless every day? And if not, why not? I mean if it is legal and not offensive why wouldn’t women do it every day? I suppose it gets a bit chilly in the winter time in Columbus but why wouldn’t women shed their coats once indoors, unless private businesses reserve the right to require tops by all, but why would they do that if it not offensive, unless of course many customers find it offensive. I don’t know, the fact that is legal all year round, but only practiced one day a year is very telling. It tells me that most people do not find it appealing or attractive in any way. And it is probably another reason I eschewed Ohio State for Michigan.

    • If everyone went around constantly doing everything that was legal, we’d live in a pretty fucked up world. Seriously. Getting drunk is perfectly legal, but you don’t get wasted and stumble around the park at 9am, or keep a bottle in your desk at at work for your lunch break. Why? Because it’s not situationally appropriate.

      Women don’t go topless all the time because there is a culture of shame which tells them that if they do so, and are then accosted or harassed or assaulted by assholes who think they are “asking for it” by baring their skin, they know perfectly well that they will be blamed for it, legal or not.

      • courage the cowardly dog says:

        In many jurisdictions it is unlawful to be public drunk and disorderly. Moreover, even in those jurisdictions that it is not unlawful to be publicly drunk and disorderly, there are severe health hazards to frequent excessive drinking. I know of no health hazards to bearing your breasts publicly and apparently in Columbus, Ohio it is not even illegal. So your analogy is a poor one. In fact I would bet that despite the unlawfulness of drunk and disorderly behavior(which is unlawful in Columbus) relative to the lawfulness of bearing your breasts in public in Columbus more people engage n the former than the latter. I know because having attended Michigan State University, I was a frequent visitor to Ohio State University.

        • Blargh says:

          It’s not like men go shirtless everywhere either, and that’s been legal for a long time. Just people people don’t do it all the time doesn’t mean it’s a terrible idea. In fact, I never see shirtless men wandering around the streets of a busy metropolis. It’s just not situationally appropriate.

          • I worry more about skin cancer and brushing up against stuff that might make me itch, like a tree. Clothes give some protection which is handy.

        • You are the shit

      • Anonymous says:

        Some of these assholes are women , so called social rules are mostly enforced by women, keep that in mind or at least mention it once in at the seem time you are attacking mostly men.

    • Cloaks are legal all year long and are not offensive. However, hardly anyone wears them. Aside from three renaissance festival once a year.

  47. I’ve seen literally dozens of comments saying that her exposure is offensive or illegal. Where I live (Columbus OH), women are entitled to go topless if they so choose. This right is embraced once a year at our community festival, where it isn’t uncommon to see men and women alike wearing little but body paint, even around children. Nobody questions this, and we don’t see a dramatic rise in rape cases. Why? Because, as we say over and over, what you’re wearing is irrelevant. Whether you’ve been drinking is irrelevant. Rape happens because of rapists. Period.

    • Theorema Egregium says:

      You have seen that, but please keep in mind that it was a high number of comments, not people. It was basically two persons who, between them, put up no less than 28 postings to that effect. The impression is skewed.

      • Tom Brechlin says:

        3 people ….

      • anonguy says:

        I have no issue with a women running around barring it all. I am not personally offended. However I would also not be offended if you masturbated on the bus just so long as you don’t make a mess…

        However I do think the question of “is it sexual harassment to do so” is a good one. Do people have a right to not be exposed in a sexual way?

        • Wait.. what is “exposed in a sexual way?” I’m pretty sure that this is someone without a shirt on. Not quite on par with jerking on a bus.

        • Josh K. says:

          That is the problem with Americans. Female body = Sexuality to you guys. The male body, only if it is the genitals. Weird.

      • Tom Brechlin, John Anderson and “courage the cowardly dog”. These three guys.
        Very conservative, obsessed and against women’s nipples.

        • I bet they’re against women’s nipples as much as possible. Generally the louder the denial, the protest, the more they are doing that against which they rail.

  48. leave the sharks out of this

  49. Anonymous says:

    Hi. I just want to thank you. I came to your website because of a link to the post, “Girls Will Be”, but I was interested to see this article. I think that woman is out of her mind , but then I’m 61 years old, and rather conservative. (And I wonder if the picture was photoshopped but, again, that may be my own naivete.) However, I am so tired of the “philosophy” that a woman walking down the street in shorts, or showing cleavage, is “asking for it”. I loved the comparison to someone cooking or counting money. As I was growing up, my sister would spread her money out on her bed and count it all, every weekend, with the door open, but I never thought of taking any of it. 🙂 And when you live in an apartment, you smell the wonderful foods your neighbors are cooking (and maybe have nothing planned yourself); or in a campground, there aren’t even boundaries, except those set by morality and social convention. Their camp stew is not mine to eat, even if they are cooking it a few feet from my fire. Thank you for sharing.

  50. John Anderson says:

    When we talk about the sexually aggressive behavior of the woman pictured, it’s important to differential between what should be legal, what is legal, and what might be legal. Women should be able to walk around topless so it should be legal, but if it’s not in that area then she committed some sexual offense whether that’s sexual harassment or indecent exposure. I see no mitigating circumstance to suggest that it was an accident. She should face whatever consequence is proscribed by the law and that would detract from the message she’s sending. Obviously, if you want to prevent sexual assault / harassment, one very important step is to not perpetrate sexual assault or sexually harass anybody yourself.

  51. Tom Brechlin says:

    LOL ,before anyone points it out …. It’s “baring and bare” …. Not bear and bearing .. duhh. Sorry about that.

  52. Tom Brechlin says:

    Okay, I have to throw this in here. Wasn’t there a recent article where there was a debate about wearing pajamas’s at the bus stop? Appeared that many thought it was inappropriate. So where are these people now? Pajama’s no but bear breasts, YES!

    • John Anderson says:

      @ Tom Brechlin

      That was a man wearing the pajamas. Don’t you know that it’s OK to shame and control what men are allowed to wear! Man, get with the program. Just kidding. 🙂

      • Tom Brechlin says:

        @ Jogn Anderson … BTW, I’m on my way out the door to go to Home Depot for some things. I’m redoing my service porch and guess what I’m wearing?!?!? Paint stained pajama bottoms!!!!! I suspect some will be highly offended. At least I’m not pulling out my schlong with a sign that said my parents mutilated me when I was a baby.

  53. Tom Brechlin says:

    I wish I could show the photo to the kids (adolescents) on my unit without being fired. I would bet a left body part that if I showed these guys the photo, the majority, if not all of them would make a comment on her breasts and totally disregard the message. They’re adolescents with raging hormones and accordingly to the adolescent boy, they literally look at things differently. Does it mean they’re rapists? Heck no. It means that there is a reason that things like this do nothing for the cause.

    There is a reason we’er not allowed to show “R” rated movies on our adolescent unit (kids from age 14 to 18) and that’s because it’s a against the law, Medicaid, DASA and Joint Commission regulations.

  54. Tom Brechlin says:

    Courage, as you may know there have been occasions that I swore off of GMP because of it’s appeared negative attitude toward people like you and I. But like you, I see some changes, but that’s not why I keep coming back. I believe in what I believe and I’m not going to be shamed away from this site. I have nothing to be ashamed of. Additionally, people like us are good people and we need a voice, a voice that can point out the misconceptions and remove the stereotypes. Which brings me to ….

    “Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.”

    So I’m not gonna run away.

  55. Amen!

    This reaches deep into several layers of society – from the pedophilia paranoia to sexual harassment.

    We teach our girls to be scared of men, and that men are never guilty. That its ok to grab a mans crotch and have sex with him when hes unconscious.

    We teach our boys that they will end up like deranged animals, that they are supposed to like it if their female teacher molest them and that if they act on impulse are just boys being boys.

    Thats not a nice world

  56. I find the messaging to be dated. We know much more about the dynamics of sexual assault and this message does not address that dynamic, erroneously purports to be about cause and effect, making it all uncomfortably close to a political equivalent of a magician’s misdirection.

    The few men who have given me their opinion on the matter, and who have a comfortable space to discuss openly and freely without worry of having to defend talks of shark attacks, compare this to overt machismo, making it more about aesthetics and context, and not about nakedness, but the advertising appearance of nakedness.

    This particular message works best when the assumptions of the continuum between thinking, looking, talking, acting out are indeed seamless and follow naturally – in other words, rape culture must be the held assumption. Similar in line with playing violent video games makes one shoot up schools.
    This chest nut is overcooked. RAINN has moved away from this type of view recently. If you need to write something relevant on your naked body, “fu&k Putin” is a much better choice. That layout I could endorse fully.

    • Mostly_123 says:

      “If you need to write something relevant on your naked body, “fu&k Putin” is a much better choice. That layout I could endorse fully.”

      On a side note, I think you’ve hit upon a brilliant angle for a protest message for Ukraine – “Still not asking for it” (invasion and annexation, that is!) – Disagreeing with Putin is not “consent.”

  57. courage the cowardly dog says:

    Maybe, instead, you should just move to Afghanistan. – See more at: http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/still-asking-photo-stfus-response-gmp/comment-page-1/?spammer=confirm#reply-title

    Really? Are you saying “America, love it or leave it” Hmmmm, sounds like something from an earlier time when my way of thinking was much more accepted and the minority thought the way you do (and still is the case though to a lesser degree). Even though I disagree with Mark, I will not suggest you move to Ontario or The Netherlands where your way of thinking is much more prevalent than it is here.

  58. courage the cowardly dog says:

    Another thing that bothers me is that the focus here is all on the viewer of the bare breasted woman and what his dastardly thoughts and actions might be, but no thought is given to the offensiveness of the woman baring her breasts. While many men may get a charge out it, many people will find it offensive. This is a slippery slope indeed, because once this breast baring becomes accepted, then why then can a man not walk around with his penis hanging out? Its a continuation of the acceptance of a great deal of deviant behavior that I find disturbing and difficult to protect my children from. It started with the decriminalization of abortion and sodomy. It is a culture of death.

  59. I would never say that a woman is asking to be raped. And I would agree that not all men are predators. I would say, however, that for people to ignore the fact that a small percentage of men are predatory towards women is dangerously naive. Yes, women should have the right to dress (or not dress) how they want to in public without fear, but to ignore the fact that how a woman dresses or acts may draw unwanted attention her way is dangerous. And to teach our daughters that they should feel free to dress or act however they want and not remember that there are some “men” out there who lack the self control to be called adults is wrong.

    • “Yes, women should have the right to dress (or not dress) how they want to in public without fear, but to ignore the fact that how a woman dresses or acts may draw unwanted attention her way is dangerous.”

      But see, that’s the lie. Because it doesn’t matter what we (women) wear — women are raped in short skirts and pants and ugly sweats and pajamas and if they’re old and young (little girls, not just teenagers) and fat and skinny. Yet one of the first things people ask when a woman is raped is: What was she wearing?

      As if that makes a difference. Because it doesn’t. Yet we’re told over and over that, “Watch out, if you wear that little skirt you’re going to attract the wrong kind of bad guy.” But we attract those guys even in pants.

      Yet here you are, saying once again, it’s because we aren’t careful enough. It’s because we don’t teach our daughters well enough. YOU ARE BLAMING US, not the guy who does it, because you’ve said its the way we dress that attracts the bad guy’s attention.

      No. No. Look at the statistics. Bad men don’t rape because a woman wears skimpy clothes, because many many MANY who are raped aren’t wearing skimpy clothes. Bad men rape because they are rapists.

      Stop blaming the clothes and the women.

      • The other side of the coin. Stop blaming men for finding women and the clothes they *choose to wear or NOT wear* sexually attractive.

  60. courage the cowardly dog says:

    It seems patently obvious to me that because she is naked that does not give any body the right to assault or molest her in anyway. It is equally patently obvious to me that her appearing naked in public has assaulted my sensitivities and she should be arrested for public nakedness. And nobody on here has made that point. She cannot go out in public naked without consequence. It seems we are focusing on what others might interpret the message she is sending out by being naked, but giving no regard to what she is foisting upon the public.

    • She is not totally naked. Just out of curiosity, if a guy in public is half naked, will he have same consequences? Speaking about public nakedness here ofcourse.

      • Jon Obermark says:

        If it were illegal to touch a man unexpectedly on the exposed flesh, it would have the same consequences. But you can punch a man anywhere but the groin and get away with it half the time.

        This is about women glorying in the unequal protection they receive, and demanding more and more of it. Women want it both ways — to be better protected by all of our institutions, and to pay no penalty for that inequality.

        We are so used to thinking of power as the ability to change things that we are unaware that the ability to keep things you no longer pay for is also a power play.

        • courage the cowardly dog says:

          If it were illegal to touch a man unexpectedly on the exposed flesh, it would have the same consequences. But you can punch a man anywhere but the groin and get away with it half the time. – See more at: http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/still-asking-photo-stfus-response-gmp/comment-page-1/#comments

          This is incorrect. It is illegal to unexpectedly touch anybody on exposed flesh or otherwise. It is called “Battery”. When your hand moves in the direction of my body before he actually makes contact, but the movement places me in fear of imminent harm that is called Assault. So when you raise your fist in my direction you have committed an assault and when your fist makes contact with my body you have committed a battery and when combined you have committed Assault and Battery and I can guarantee if you do that and there is no policeman nearby for me to summon to make an arrest I will go to the local district attorney and swear out an arrest warrant against you have you arrested. I don’t know where you get your statistics from but to say half the time you can punch a man and get away with it is simply not true. Every time a person gets punched they have the right to have their assailant arrested. If they choose not to the assailant is fortunate, but that luck will run should you try this on me.

    • “Assaulting your sensitivities” is not illegal, much in the same way as hurting your feeling is not illegal, nor should it be. Also, women baring their breasts in public IS legal in some places (ie. Ontario, Canada).

    • Mark Greene says:

      So, Courage,
      Let me see if I have this right. You say that anyone “assaulting your sensitivities” should be arrested? Is that just your sensitivities? Or all our sensitivities collectively? Because some people’s “sensitivities” are assaulted by bare ankles, or hoodies or the Washington Redskins. By your standards, we’d all be in jail for one reason or another. Maybe, instead, you should just move to Afghanistan.

      • Jon Obermark says:

        And by that logic, most forms of verbal and environmental sexual harassment should be just fine.

      • courage the cowardly dog says:

        NO, that is not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is in those places where it is illegal to parade around naked the individual doing so should be arrested. Presumably in those places it is illegal to bare your breasts the reason it is illegal is because the law reflects the sensitivities of the people who live there and to that extent those who disregard the law should be arrested. In those places it is legal I will try to avoid visiting or living there. What bothers me is that a vocal and active minority can push through a change in the law that doesn’t reflect the will of the majority and then whether I like it or not I have put up with it. As far as distinguishing between men and women being naked from the waist up, if you don’t understand the difference I can’t explain it to you and I would suggest you go back to your Basic Anatomy class and learn the difference.

        As far as the Redskins is concerned, I am huge Redskins fan and if you open a history book you will understand that term “Redskins” has nothing to do with race or ethnicity. During the French and Indian War (that’s one that came before our Revolution for those who don’t know), the Natives had aligned themselves with the French who were protecting their fur trading citizens in the Ohio, Michigan territories and what was then the western regions and the Natives were simply trying to stop the encroachment and of the British. In preparation for battle the Algonquins had a practice of painting their faces red and French who fought with them did it too. So the term Redskins has nothing to do with race or ethnicity, but it has to do with a practice of intimidation something that could come in handy on a Football field. But I digress.

      • courage the cowardly dog says:

        So what are you saying Mark “America Love it or Leave it”? Hmmmm sounds like something from an earlier time when my way of thinking was much more widely accepted and yours was in the minority (and still is for the most part). Maybe you should go live in Ontario, or Europe where your way of thinking is much more widely accepted.

  61. Lora Ora says:

    I am a woman and I wish to live in the world where topless would not be considered as sexual aggression… Why my breasts are shameful while man can walk topless without such shame and risk of police attention? Why are we different? We both have nipples and we both have skin. I love man’s body as man loves mine. Why men and women shame woman’s body? Breast is not genitalia! Man do not insert penis to breast! It is for feeding precious baby. I hope one day everyone will realize that finally and let it go!

    • The erotic nature of breasts is random and arbitrary. But if not breasts it would be something else like maybe feet.

      • It could be nothing as well, some cultures have nothing sexualized in their bodies.
        But if we keep that to only genitalia that would be ok. In a less bad way.

  62. Smoking is really bad for you though.

  63. Theorema Egregium says:

    I look at it this way:

    I feel strong urges to stare and touch and fuck. There is that energy in me. Because I am a man.
    I control them and keep them in check and will never fail in this. There is that energy in me. Because I am a man.

    • courage the cowardly dog says:

      Her nakedness has aroused in you a conflict. The primal urge to express your sexual needs in conflict with your intellectual control refraining from encroaching on an other’s right to be safe within their bodies. It is uncomfortable for you and in some ways her nakedness is a psychological assault on you. Which is why we have laws against parading around naked and why her nakedness is wrong and she should be arrested for it.

      • Theorema Egregium says:

        What? No! Of course not. If I required to limit other people’s freedoms because I am too weak to deal with the fires within me, I would be very weak indeed. I can handle it, I am a man. I require no “help” in this. And neither do you.

        • courage the cowardly dog says:

          Her nakedness is offensive. It is illegal to parade around naked. That is the law of the land and the law expresses the will of the majority. If you disagree you are in the minority and minority rule is tyranny.

          • Mark Greene says:

            Her nakedness is offensive to you. That is very very different from her nakedness is offensive. Please learn to differentiate between your opinion and universal truth.

            • Tom Brechlin says:

              The naked body is beautiful and believe me when I attended the Chicago Art Institute I saw plenty of them. The naked body is not offensive, it’s her blatant breaking the law that I find offensive.

              There is a lot going on in our society with respect to male circumcision. So I guess it would be socially acceptable to out your schlong and parade around with a sign? As long as it represents a good cause,it’s okay. I can pretty much guarantee you that if men did that, they wouldn’t have enough patty wagons to put them in. Why? Because it’s the law. It’s that simple.

              And BTW,I have to ask, by her bearing her breasts, did it add to the cause or distract from it? Just look at the thread of responses, I’m sure we’re not the only ones debating this and I would venture to say that most of those debates are focused on her bearing breasts and not abuse.

            • courage the cowardly dog says:

              “Her nakedness is offensive to you. That is very very different from her nakedness is offensive.” – See more at: http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/still-asking-photo-stfus-response-gmp/#sthash.WRSDrpTZ.dpuf

              Let me do this by way of a tautology, you know what that is right?

              1) The law is an expression of the standards and values of a majority of society. If you agree lets go to premise number 2.

              2) It is unlawful to be naked in public in most American communities. If you agree lets now draw our conclusion.

              The standards and values of a majority of Americans is that public nudity is offensive and thus it is unlawful. Get it now. I am not alone in my belief that public nudity is offensive and in fact if you put all the people who agreed with in one stadium and you put all the people that agreed with you in another stadium, the stadium I am in would be more full. I am not sure how to explain this any more simply than that and I am starting to wonder how far you got in school, because this is not complicated.

    • Jon Obermark says:

      Maybe just because you are a human being. Aggression is not a male trait, it is a human one. Women more often get their aggressive ends served through men, that does not make it our aggression, or make those our ends.

    • So you are saying you have an urge to touch someone that does not want you to touch them. And fuck them even if they don’t show that is reciprocal. So, you are basically saying you feel an urge to sexually assault and RAPE, then. And all that, because you are a man.

      Thanks for being that honest.

      • “So you are saying you have an urge to touch someone that does not want you to touch them. And fuck them even if they don’t show that is reciprocal. So, you are basically saying you feel an urge to sexually assault and RAPE, then. And all that, because you are a man.

        Thanks for being that honest.”

        Wtf are you on about? He said “I feel strong urges to stare and touch and fuck.” Lots of sex is consenting, lots of touching is consenting, even staring can be consenting. He is simply saying he’s sexually aroused and has strong urges to pursue sexual relations with the person, it’s the NORMAL human way. There is NO problem with someone having the desire to touch and fuck others as long as they control their urges, like he says, and only do it with people that consent.

        You have a severely warped view of the world if you think he is describing sexual assault and rape.

      • I look at it this way:
        I feel strong urges to stare and touch and fuck. There is that energy in me. Because I am a man.
        I control them and keep them in check and will never fail in this. There is that energy in me. Because I am a man.

        Who in the hell said that they want to touch and have sex with someone that didn’t want it? He’s saying that for example if he sees a woman out in public that he thinks is sexually attractive he might become interested in wanting to have sex with her. THAT’S ALL.

        The “that does not want you to touch them” and “even if they don’t show that is reciprocal” is all projection by you.

        Based on your line of logic wanting to have sex with a person means that you inherently want to rape them. Bullshit.

        Saying you find someone attractive and that you want to have sex with them isn’t rape and you do a grand disservice to those who are raped by trying to say it is.

  64. For anyone saying this woman is exhibiting sexual aggression or making men feel uncomfortable, men walk around shirtless in the summer and we’re expected to be ok with that so….

    • Jon Obermark says:

      You repeat. I repeat. Touching a man on the chest unexpectedly is not a crime. Doing so to a woman’s breasts, is. No analogy. No logic.

      Walking around with your breasts 99% exposed is harassment.

    • John Anderson says:

      @ Jen

      What courtesies do we owe each other is what it comes down to. I’ve had way more women feel entitled to my body than I’ve known any woman claim to have men feel entitled to theirs. There were times I’ve been groped by women in public. There were times that I’ve been groped by strippers who thought that just because I was paying to look at or touch them, it meant I agreed to get touched also. Mostly, it’s just average women during the course of an average month. They just call it a different name like platonic touch. Thing is I don’t generally find it comforting or reassuring coming from a stranger. It feels harassing and I’ve had women compliment and admire my shoulders and arms before so is a light touch on an arm platonic? I guess the feeling is if she says it is. My feeling is why can’t she keep her hands to herself? Yet in my 46 years, I’ve somehow given them the benefit of the doubt and haven’t knocked anyone out.

      Getting back to dress though, I’ve worn martial arts apparel before. Some have found it intimidating. Some people mistakenly equate the ability to perform violence with the propensity to perform violence, but I’ve found martial artists to be the least likely to get into a fight. I’ve always moderated my behavior when I’ve done this. Don’t look at someone for more than a couple seconds. Be careful where you go and how you move. People may be afraid to ask you to move, etc. Once I was talking with some friends. We were discussing techniques. Many were potentially lethal or could cause severe injury. I glanced behind me and notice a young lady sitting perfectly still like she didn’t want to be noticed. It was as if she hadn’t even taken a breath in minutes. I realized that she was afraid. I apologized to her and she had this huge look of relief like I can relax now.

      What people are telling me is if your intimidated, it’s your own fault and I owe you nothing. I’m not saying your wrong although I think we shouldn’t unduly cause others distress.

  65. It’s irrelevant if she is asking for it or not. Rapists (male and female) dont care what their victims want/dont want, or about their victims for that matter.

    • Mostly_123 says:

      “It’s irrelevant if she is asking for it or not. Rapists (male and female) dont care what their victims want/dont want, or about their victims for that matter.”
           
      Good point- but the whole narrative is built on a certain presumption that society is fundamentally unjust, biased, or deluded to begin with; That society invariably wants to side against the rape victim, and with the rapist. It is the belief/fear that rapists are (or will be) excused, exonerated, or otherwise vindicated wholesale, because the societal criteria for ‘consent’ are universally biased or twisted against victims to begin with: ‘Still not asking for it’ presumes, of course, offhand that society at large somehow misconstrues that lack of clothing as unconditional consent and/or license to commit rape; that society already uniformly accepts & validates the (egregious) explanation that ‘they were topless/they were dressed provocatively in public’ as an acceptable bar or equivalent for consent: This is not so, but the protestation implies (uniformly) that it is, or will be.

    • Anonymous says:

      If somebody did assault my daughter, even if she were dressed provocatively, it would most definitely not be her fault. We all have free will and that person made the choice to assault her and violate her rights.

      That said, I would still try to urge her to cover up, if only to not draw the attention of those kinds of predators who see sexual expression as an invitation for assault. No woman is ever “asking for it”, but I think we’d all want to keep our loved ones as safe as we reasonably can when we know there are psychos out there who think otherwise.

      • But why only women? Men should not cover up? Men are also raped.
        All the psychos know you have a body under your clothes. That really does not change much at all if you are covered or not.

  66. The only thing walking around like that will do is make it highly likely people will look. It can be quite difficult to not look as temptation with vision is pretty potent but you can still control it. However touching her, yelling out, etc are all actions that you take voluntarily and are wrong.

    • John Anderson says:

      @ Archy

      I agree, people who disagree should consider Schrodinger’s Rapist. We’re told women can think whatever they want of men even if it’s unreasonable and / or unfair as long as they don’t directly impact the men. Guys should be able to look as long as that’s all they do.

      • Keep it to short glances. Spend far more time looking into peoples eyes, talking to them, thinking of them as full humans. Staring is universally a threatening sign in many situations, I think most people will have that internal clock that starts to feel awkward after a second or two when looking at others, that is the time to stop looking. It might vary a bit depending on country n culture. If you do glance at them, make sure you do not look like you’re a predator! Try be a happy go lucky kinda person and non-threatening. Context and body language play a massive role here.

  67. That gave me chills. (In a “damn they nailed it” kind of way.)

  68. YES. The more we perpetuate the man as a shark stereotype, the more we are excusing the behaviour. We need to empower men to take responsibility for their actions and to know they are in control of themselves (the ones who need to learn this of course).

    • Theorema Egregium says:

      You’ve got it backwards. The more we perpetuate the myth, the more slander the big majority of men who do take responsibility for their actions and will never transgress.

      We do not want to stop those stereotypes in order to be able to blame men more efficiently, we need to do it to realize that most men have nothing to be blamed for. We must be able to seperate the many good apples from the few bad apples, not just build us neat rhetorical tools to allow us to treat all apples as bad apples.

      • Mostly_123 says:

        “The more we perpetuate the myth, the more slander the big majority… We must be able to seperate the many good apples from the few bad apples, not just build us neat rhetorical tools to allow us to treat all apples as bad apples.”

        Yes- I think that really speaks to it there; a myth is not the reality that the myth itself was created to define/explain/exploit. I’ll go you one further even: 
        Whether agreeing or disagreeing with the hyperbole -whether arguing ‘All men are bestial’ or ‘All men are beneficent’- by even engaging the hyperbole, from either angle, one is still (on some level) validating it, which I fear can be an undesirable thing to do.  

        ‘All men’ is, (of course) a notional fallacy- an ideological or philosophical shorthand; and variably, hyperbole is the tool of ideologues and polemicists. So, win or lose any given individual argument, the purpose of hyperbole is to ensure having the fight on that specific battleground -the topography itself is the objective that they’re often angling for: Validation (implied or proclaimed) and moral victory by engagement: So, sometimes it may indeed be better not to engage; at least not at that specific junction.     

        How we collectivize ourselves; that is, how we define ourselves and our relationships to other collectives (and within our ‘own’ collectives) impacts not only ourselves- but it also impacts and redefines the very definitions of the (tenuous) collectives being formed & reformed themselves. Selecting and defining collectives can be used to embrace or divorce ourselves from others -not just as individuals, but, indeed, on a collective/absolutist scale. And typically, I tend to believe that this has been applied more myopically than judiciously throughout human history thus far.       

        Gender/physical differentiation is certainly something tangible and quantifiable, with perceivable traits. So, of course, we seek to place the intangible and the imperceptible within that tangible, relatable framework we already have: And I think this is why we attribute so many things that are more amorphous (including all kinds of behaviors, idiosyncrasies, attitudes, and so on) in a wholesale manner to tangibles like gender, race, class, age, and such. Collective guilt, collective outrage, collective fear, collective culpability, and the like, are singularly united in that they are (in my opinion) all invariably and collectively flawed; Because they’re typically the product of relative and subjective (not absolute or objective) presumption and projection. As rhetorically convenient, elegant, and comforting as myths & reductionist thinking may be, they also have the effect of obscuring and distorting broader understanding- not illuminating it. 

      • Therorema – I think in the case of how men treat women or how women treat men, it’s not always about “bad people doing bad things” and “good people doing good things”. Sometimes good people do bad things. Especially when we are socalized to adopt a mentality about each other that isn’t healthy for anyone. Such as the idea that “boys will be boys” or women are “just emotional”.

        I have found that within these discussions men are very sensitive to the idea of “blame”. On one hand, I can understand the feelings that come from feeling unfairly judged or treated (I.E. “Blamed). But on the other hand, I do recongnize that there are many good men (and good women) out there that do not know how to treat each other or have learned a bad pattern of behavior that *can* be broken with the right teachings.

        Do you know why sometimes a woman’s naked body is taken as a sign for “open for sex” by some men (and women)? It’s because women are heavily sold as products of sex in our society to begin with. And that is something we all participate in on some scale. Maybe we individually need to ask our selves what we participate in that may upheld old patterns of thought. Do we engage in the commodificiation of each other in our own lives? It’s something I’ve had to take a serious look at as a woman and the answer is that yes, I have participated in the commodifciation of women even as I hate it at the same time. This doesn’t mean I’m a “bad” person or a “bad” woman. This means I’m an individual that needs to grown and work on the things I really want to see changed.

      • Glenda White Witch says:

        So far……This comment is THE ONLY intelligent comment on this entire page…..and i’m half way down…..SAD SAD SAD!!!!!!

      • Josh K. says:

        I think it goes both ways, really.

    • Jon Obermark says:

      OK, so generalizing over women is bad for women, and generalizing over men is bad for women, neither could possibly be bad for MEN.

      We don’t see tons of men in jail, arising from the assumption that men are as rule more evil than comparable women. That would be strange, right? We have to focus on the effects on WOMEN, when these men, whose morality has been systematically undermined. attack them.

      The effects on the well-behaved MEN who get attacked by them far more freely, is not an issue.

      The message here is right. The focus is totally asinine. Focus on letting sexuality be acceptable, for everyone, not on how horrible it is for women that men have a more aggressive form of sexuality.

  69. John Anderson says:

    First I thought brilliant, but we could still look, right? Then I thought wouldn’t that be street harassment? Then I thought she’s walking around topless with a message written on her body. Then I thought wait, couldn’t she be sexually harassing other people who might be embarrassed at seeing her breasts assuming that she’s in an area that wouldn’t allow it. It looks as if there might be paste on her nipples which would indicate this. If I walked around with my penis out, but was wearing a condom or a “banana”, I’d probably cause some people discomfort / distress especially little kids even if I wouldn’t be considered legally exposed.

    I understand what she’s saying, but if she crossed into sexual harassment territory, you can’t fight sexual violence with sexual aggression.

    • That guy says:

      Ultimately, the question becomes “Why are exposed breasts considered a form of sexual aggression?”

      • I don’t really think that’s the ultimate question. More like a side question with a pretty easy answer. Its pretty because of classism.

    • Men walk around shirtless in the summer and we’re ecpected to be ok with it…

      • Jon Obermark says:

        But touching a man on his chest is not sexual harassment. So that is a false analogy. If just coming up to a guy and laying a hand on his chest were automatically wrong in most circumstances, a lot of women would be in a lot of trouble.

        • Josh K. says:

          That is not false analogy, but complementary.
          Women’s breats are considered sexual while men’s chest is not, that is the problem.

          I still believe that sould not be the case, and that women should be allowed to go out shirtless. And after that, if that becomes common enough, women’s breats will not be considered almost like a second sexual organ anymore.

        • Yes it is, I’ve had my moobs touched against my will and the POLICE said it was sexual assault.

        • It would be sexual harassment to touch a woman’s upper thigh yet women are allowed to expose those

      • A mans chest and a women’s chest are not viewed the same way by pretty much everyone in western country’s… but you know that.

    • Interesting question. Is she sexualy harassing the public. Would looking at her to read her message be harassing her? Would enjoying her provocative outfit be harassing her? The sexual power she invokes is very powerful. I would kill to have that kind of sexual power over women. I bet that power makes a few men and women very mad… but is it harassment to exersize that power over someone else? I would say no it isnot harassment but only if it is OK to enjoy the view.

      • wellokaythen says:

        I can be a very slow reader sometimes. That man staring at her chest for a long time may be dyslexic or may still be learning English….

      • Josh K. says:

        She is not exercizing power, she is just being shirtless. Come on. If someone naked exerces power over you, that is mostly on YOU – unless someone is forcing you into it, somehow. You could look away.
        The problem is not looking, but starring, really. I would hate if someone would stare at me, forceful and close, without ever considering my own space.

  70. I’m not a shark either, but i’ll bet you all lock your houses when you leave them.
    Why?
    Shouldn’t you be able to leave your house unlocked and have someone not rob it?
    Yes you should, but i’ll still bet you lock it.

    • My body is not a house. My clothes are not a lock. No one shall enter my body or my house without consent. No one should shame and blame me if someone does do so. Either way comparing a human body to a house is a ridiculous argument.

      • People need to take some safety precautions because not everyone is trustworthy. Trouble with rape is that the only safety precaution that works is staying away from everyone. It’s very hard to protect yourself when the closest people often are the rapists.

    • This really hits the nail on the head.

      I believe that women should be able to wear whatever they want, and that most men understand that they are not entitled to fuck them. However what needs to be understood as well is that there are some men that don’t think this way.

      • And that is what women are trying to do – teach the younger ones that what a woman (or man) is wearing does not make you entitled to RAPE them.

    • Nobody says that the house had short curtains and was asking for a good robbing. People don’t question whether the house owner had been drinking or whether they’d been robbed before. House owners aren’t interrogated and have their house owner history repeated in front of a court room full of strangers.

      And if women could lock their vaginas I’m sure they would.

      • no, but both police and your insurance will ask you if you locked your house before you left.

        Men shouldn’t rape women, but it happens, men shouldn’t rape men, but it happens, women shouldn’t rape men, but it happens.

        I’m not going to teach my daughter that she’s can wear whatever she wants, where-ever she wants and not get raped. I’m going to teach her that there are bad people out there, both men and women, that WILL take advantage of a situation, and she’s far better of not putting herself in a situation where she can be taken advantage of rather than sticking her head in the sand and saying it SHOULDN”T happen

        • This isn’t about what we are teaching our daughters. That’s irrelevant to the problem. It’s about what we are teaching our sons.

          • i don’t think there are many people out there teaching there son’s that they should rape people.
            Men aren’t the enemy, making them out to be isn’t helping the problem

            • People who say things like “dressing revealing ly is like putting on a meats uit in front of a dog” teach men that rape is at least partially excusable

            • Not sure how much more effective jeans are for protection than a short skirt. Who’s sticking their head in the sand? Wearing less revealing clothes could prevent someone from acting on attempting rape, but who really wants some guy or girl walking around with the sexual self control of -10 out of 100 to be tempted to commit rape anytime they see skin?

              It has nothing to do with people actively teaching their kids to be rapists….it has to do with people not sufficiently teaching their kids how to NOT become rapists

        • Josh K. says:

          You are going to be a pretty bad parent, now aren’t you?
          You should teach your daughert/son that what they wear is not what could make someone rape them. And that is mostly not. And that them getting raped is never their fault.
          If you think that way, any man could rape her whenever they are alone with her – or even in a group. So are you gonna tell your daughter to just run away from men? It does not matter how much you trust someone, you can never know.

    • Scott Sharplin says:

      I find that analogy pretty offensive, Nick. If you are still equating women’s bodies with property, even for the sake of an argument, then you need to reexamine your thinking, because you’re part of the problem.

    • wobblethief says:

      so what your saying is the next time your shirt is off i can rape you? cuz you didnt lock your door?

    • You can’t lock your body, man. Unless you wish people would start wearing chastity belts once again? But then again, sexual assault and rape are not only about penetration.

    • Josh K. says:

      What is your freaking point, really. You can’t leave you body at home. You can’t lock it.
      Wearing clothes or not, someone still could overpower you and rape you. Most people that are raped were wearing clothes.

    • I don’t lock my house. I don’t lock my car. I believe people are good.

  71. Problem is not women or most good men who are here and out there. Problem is majority of “things” out there that look like human but are just not evolved, civilized or capable of living in a society in harmony. Those need to be extracted and quarantined somewhere away from civilization. Let them evolve but not at the cost of ruining all the good things we have worked hard to build.

  72. Not sharks? Males are predatory in nature. Men are rational beings with self control

    • Both males and females are predatory in nature.
      Well, most women don’t need self control not to rape – they just don’t ever feel the urge.

      • most men don’t need self control to rape, and it’s offensive for you to suggest that they do

  73. Kathryn DeHoyos says:

    Thank you! Love this!

  74. Joanna Schroeder says:

    BRAVO.

    Men are not sharks! Men are NOT beasts.

  75. Well said!

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