A conversation about the conversation.
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The Good Men Project, (GMP) is an online media company dedicated to facilitating discussion about the changing landscape of male socialization. Men, traditionally have been encouraged to not discuss and question how a man should think, feel and behave—in other words, to just be a good man.
A good man simply needs to do what a good man needs to do.
I know this sounds like circular reasoning because it is. But most men get it. They get that a good man figures out what to do about situations and knows what needs to be done.
A good man needs to be able to play hurt and not complain in public. Vocal suffering is to be confined to private spaces.
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But what separates the good men from the mediocre ones, is that the good man does what needs to be done, particularly when he doesn’t feel like doing it. In other words, what separates the good men from the rest is the willingness and ability to do sometimes frightening, sometimes painful, sometimes disgusting things, whether he wants to or not for the good of others and for self-preservation if that is what the situation requires.
A simplistic reason for this code is that it got started in some prehistoric time by women with an awareness that women are stuck with the frightening, painful, job of giving birth, so it is a reasonable division of labor for men to take care of the rest of the frightening, painful and sometimes disgusting stuff. In this way of thinking, women have no choice in their lot. Men do.
A man has got to make the correct decision and then act on it.
A man does what a man has to do whether he is healthy or not. Being sick is no excuse for wimping out. A good man takes drugs, girds his loins, (or whatever needs girding), cheats, or whatever it takes to do what needs to be done.
If a man opts out, he better be good and sick. Every man is vulnerable to severe degrees of disease bringing him to his knees.
Another part of being a good man is to not let others know that you are frightened, in pain, disgusted or sick. A good man needs to be able to play hurt and not complain in public. Vocal suffering is to be confined to private spaces. Sometimes a man’s live – in partner can’t help but overhear it.
Part of the boy code is to not seek out the succorance of females in times of distress or illness or if you do, pretend that you don’t. Seeking female empathy for suffering is what “momma’s boys” do. Calling out for one’s mommy is reserved for hopeless military combat and extreme torture situations.
One thing that The Good Men Project stands for is that all men aren’t any such way about anything. Men are a diverse lot and benefit from being encouraged to say so.
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The problem is, some women, who live with some men , believe that behind closed doors, men who give the appearance of invulnerability to the rest of the world, can whine and complain about discomfort that women take in stride. Some women believe that some men compensate for the stress of doing what a man has to do, by finding a woman to kiss every little “boo boo.”
Some women sarcastically refer to men who give the appearance of being “He Men” to others, when ill and act like babies hoping that their partner will take care of them, in private, as showing symptoms of the syndrome that is sometimes termed the “Man Flu.”
Some women think that all men are fake tough on the outside and unreliable mush on the inside.
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One thing that The Good Men Project stands for is that all men aren’t any such way about anything. Men are a diverse lot and benefit from being encouraged to say so.
The Good Men Project has a writer’s group on Facebook, where writers can get feedback on ways to facilitate such conversations, by providing content for The Good Men Project web page.
Recently a conversation on the new masculinity erupted by the following post:
Man Flu – an illness that causes the male of the species to be helpless and sicker than any other family member. In females: a cold.
The initial poster warned, “(a) note to the women in this group. Memes like this are NOT OKAY. It is not a harmless joke. If we want to work for equality board stereotypes are wrong no matter who the group.”
The ensuing comments and replies illustrated issues that can arise whenever there are conversations about differences between men and women.
There was the issue about the use of sarcastic humor as a way to veil hate or lesser disparagement and how the same humor can serve to introduce or frame a topic of discussion or can be considered just kidding around for comic relief.
How often do I buy into male stereotypes to excuse my behavior or berate myself?
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There was discussion as to possible scientific evidence for men being more prone to disease or to whining about it. Could such a joke serve to sugar coat difficult to accept scientific knowledge?
The Good Men project publisher, Lisa Hickey, responded that the topic of avoiding the spread of the “disease” of stereotyping male behavior, would make for good writing for posting on the GMP site.
I contributed a brief comment. It was brief because I wasn’t feeling well. I related that I identified with the Man Flu meme and was distracted from my suffering by having this meme help me laugh at myself. At the same time, I identified with taking umbrage to such talk, particularly when my wife suggests that my expression of being troubled by disease is excessive.
The posts for me begged the questions:
• Do I sometimes seek out the comfort of my wife in a passive aggressive or hyper-dramatic fashion when I am ill because I am too uptight about asking for such comfort directly?
• Am I overly reliant on my wife for comfort in general, being reticent to have men in my social circle that I would feel comfortable letting know when I was hurting or just feeling like crap?
•Am I an all-too-typical male, who is prone to die younger than is my wife, due to neglect of preventative health maintenance measures?
• How often do I buy into male stereotypes to excuse my behavior or berate myself?
• How often do I feel gratitude for events and situations where I was spared socialization into common male enculturation that was harmful to self and others.
•In what ways was I not spared and what was my role in it?
• What is my role in countering male cultural condition I once accepted, but now no longer appreciate?
For me, one of the most satisfying ways to ask these questions of myself is to write about what it is like for me to be male. Writing helps to deepen my reflections. Trying to write well enough to get approval for a GMP editor to help my writing get approved for posting on the GMP website, further refines that thinking.
When I write, I often wonder if I am being too careless with my humor, if I am writing to an audience that already agrees with positions that I am taking. Or, am I challenging myself to try and create some new awareness for a reader who thinks the opposite of me.
GMP challenges writers to get personal with their stories. I was loathe to do so at first and still am. I embody the male stereotype of fearing that what I disclose about my vulnerabilities and hurts can be somehow used against me. Often in writing experiences that I have had as a man that I thought were noble, upon reflection turn out to be less so. The contrary has happened again and again. Repeatedly my reflections regarding remembered wrongs done to me has given rise to increased awareness of countless gifts of grace that have helped me on my journey as a man.
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My experience as a man has been revealed to be anything but stereotypical. I am a very nuanced individual. Various situations bring out various traits, for better or worse. I delete. I re-script. I open myself to editing by others or I stubbornly refuse to do so.
At times, I find the whole business of asking myself who am I as a man, self-indulgent and too complex and too scary to ruminate on. I should just man up and get over myself.
We may soon no longer need the stereotypes of Male and Female.
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Sometimes I should and sometimes I do.
More and more I find myself agreeing with those that argue that it is growing close to the time to retire the labels of men or women, and labels that try to capture a rainbow of gender identifications. We are on the verge of no longer needing a sign that says MEN on public lavatories. “I now pronounce you man and wife,” is suddenly quaintly ridiculous, (with no disrespect intended for those who still love those words.)
We may soon no longer need the stereotypes of Male and Female. The sooner solutions are found to drastically reduce the source of sexual assault, the sooner we can say goodbye to the terms, Men and Women.
Oh dear, have I lost some of my potential readers at this point by offending them by being too radical, or am I boring more readers than offending by stating the obvious? I don’t know because GMP readers are not some monolithic type.
I believe in the GMP brand. No men bashing. No women bashing. No stereotyping human beings.
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Photo:GettyImages
About the man flu, I think people don’t want to here scientific evidence suggesting that men may suffer from certain viruses more severely than women because large portions of society refuse to have empathy for men. They would prefer to view it as men shirking their responsibilities because that coincides with their chosen narrative. On the other hand, that doesn’t explain why some men may seek comfort from their wives. Maybe it’s because men need to have an excuse to seek comfort from their wives. Whether the excuse is for him to ask it or for her to listen is… Read more »
Those are good points John
To continue. Are we really babies in bearskin? Are we macho knuckle draggoers, or are we just whom we are? Is that misunderstanding between the sexes just that, misunderstanding and not necessarily our sex? I noted this once when an accident occurred. We were (which means me) involved in some necessary, but major work on our house in order to hold it together for a few years until we were to knock it down and build our dream home. We were caught with an early snow storm that turned to a blizzard overnight. While securing and covering, I slipped and… Read more »
Dj your story reminds me of the countless cuts and gashes I’ve sealed with superglue
Damit. I forgot to mention the super glue. Works great no?
I’ve told younger computer techs that if their afraid to lose blood they won’t be in the industry long because skin vs. metal; metal always wins. Heck, it was so common that HR used to keep a supply of band aids for the techs whenever we cut ourselves. I never did fill out the incident reports though. For what, so they’d pay for a shot I didn’t want anyway. It’s weird. I can cut my hand and only be concerned about bleeding all over the circuitry, but shots scare the crap out of me.
“There was discussion as to possible scientific evidence for men being more prone to disease or to whining about it. Could such a joke serve to sugar coat difficult to accept scientific knowledge?” ___________________ Any black jokes going on over there? Jew jokes? How bout Muslims? No? Not even us Italians? No Wop jokes; just the same old man bashing for the sake of the girl ego? Sort of ho-hum at this point, no? Par for the course as they say? Facetious, yes. Well deserved? That is because there is a difference between discussing legitimate and pressing men’s issues and… Read more »
DJ, I’ve come to really enjoy your comments and input at the end of the articles here. I don’t always agree with you, or see your point of view. But I’ve come to really appreciate what you have to say, especially when it is different then my own take away of the article. I like that you give me something more to think about and allow me to see things I never realized we’re there. On many occasions you’ve helped me to understand, and develop a greater appreciation for the men in my own life. If you ever feel that… Read more »
Didn’t see that coming, but thank you, Winter. Means a great deal to me. My goal is never to have everyone agree with me, but to raise a different level of awareness. Your comment validated that, and is, quite frankly, the best compliment that I could receive. Recent event’s prompted me to think about moving on, but your comment has given me pause because it instilled in me the understanding that the people that matter are listening. I have a new, better understanding now. Thank you so much for that inspiration! We all make a difference when we least expect… Read more »
DJ, You said “The issue of male sickness, disease, early death have to do more with lack of proper education, services, research into male specific issues.” It’s common knowledge that heart disease was and is been very high on he list of killers of men. My having the disease which resulted in a quintuple bypass at the age of 41 and 5 or 6 subsequent heart attacks (I’ve honestly lost count), I’ve historically observed what The American Heart Association has to say. 10 years ago, the AHA started the “Go Red For Women” campaign. I wrote to them about a… Read more »
Correction:
The New Male Sexuality was published by Bernie Zilbergeld
Herb Goldberg wrote, The Hazards of Being Male: Surviving the myth of male privilege.