Men with emotions aren’t feminine, but our cultural attitudes suggest otherwise. Dr. Bill Cloke on being a real man who talks about his feelings.
Read Why Men Have Trouble With Intimacy here.
Jim writes “I see a lot of men need to be more like women being promoted these days. Tim writes that “Perhaps 2012 truly is the end of the world (as we know it). Lies and facts are now indistinguishable from each other and to call this out is perceived as a negative.” These are a few of the comments I received from over 15, 000 responses to my blog about why men have difficulty with intimacy. Clearly I hit a nerve so I thought it might be a good idea to lend some more of my thinking to this very hot topic.
Am I truly off base, out to lunch and not in touch with the male hubris while shamelessly promoting the feminization of the American male? Nothing could be further from the truth. First off, I am a heterosexual male with some maturity and my experience has taught me that men have trouble expressing what is going on in their lives. If I ask a male friend how he is doing, most often I will get a pat answer: “Great.” If I have ever had an actual open conversation with a man we are usually friends for life. This in no way detracts from the fact that men have a full range of emotions; they just don’t usually have the vocabulary or the interest in expressing it. I find men amiable, hard working, interesting but often remote. I grew up with a bunch of them starting with my father who I never saw cry, talk about his pain, insecurities or struggles. He had them, I could see them but he never told me about them. I would have loved to hear about it.
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I am not suggesting that men become more like women, or that men have some real or imagined deficit, but if they could learn to tell someone about their travails they might feel a whole lot better and make some friends along the way.
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So, what’s the point of all this? I am not suggesting that men become more like women, or that men have some real or imagined deficit, but if they could learn to tell someone about their travails they might feel a whole lot better and make some friends along the way. This is not to say that men don’t ever do this but to suggest that it is not a bad thing to be able to represent ourselves as we truly are. Everyone has to make their own way and determine for themselves what is important and meaningful to them. There is no right way to live life. But I think we men have been sold a bill of goods about being this hyper masculine caricature of ourselves and not the real thing.
To answer Tim regarding the quote that 80% of divorces are based on men not accepting the influence of women, this came out of the research that John Gottman did with 12, 000 couples. If either member of a couple will not listen and allow themselves to be influenced by the other person it’s usually curtains for an intimate relationship. The reason for this is that relationships have to move on from the same old conversations to new ones if they are to remain viable and vital. If one person won’t listen then the relationship just dies in the water. Men usually have a more difficult time with being influenced by women because they feel like it’s a sign of weakness. Women don’t have a problem being weak; they commonly listen better. These are generalizations and do not pertain to ALL couples. There are many shades of grey here.
To address Jim’s comment about the feminization of men, I think that says it all. It feels like showing emotions are the bastion of women; that to show vulnerability, tenderness, or willingness to change are seen as signs of being feminine. I would like to make a case for those expressions being open to both genders and not try so hard to divide one from the other. We can feel the worry that men have about not being men anymore, about not standing out as different, or as being anything but strong and in charge. We fear losing our dominance to women, of becoming mere chattels of their desires. I feel very strongly that we don’t have to hold everything in, not listen, and be tough guys to be men. We can have opinions, strong points of view, talk firmly about what we want and still be masculine. It also means that it’s not a sign of losing our exalted position as men if we show some receptivity and vulnerability. This is a call for men to take a beat, stop and consider what it is that we really want out of life. We don’t have to be cut off and alone to be men, we can be connected and involved with others in (may I say it) a loving way as a sign of great strength.
I believe we all yearn to be a part of something, to be included in the world of others and to belong to something that may be more important than ourselves. We don’t have to be brutes to be respected by other men. We just need to be who we really are, that’s all.
Read more by Dr. Bill Cloke
Why Men Have Trouble With Intimacy
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About Bill Cloke
15,000 and you didn’t hear a word of them. How unfortunate. You look at the way men and women express their emotions, and you have determined that the way women do it is the correct and only way to express emotions correctly. You then argue because men don’t express emotions that way, they are doing it wrong. You then completely fail to realize that, by saying we should express our emotions the way women do instead of the way we want to, you are attempting to feminize the way men express emotion. This has nothing to do with seeing the expression of emotions as feminine, it has to do with seeing being told to express emotions like a woman does as feminization. It’s no different than me telling you the way you dress is wrong, you need to dress more like a woman… then me replying to your assertion that I’m trying to feminize you by asking why wearing cloths is seen as feminine.
You seriously need to acknowledge the difference between men not expressing emotions, and men not expressing emotions the way YOU want them to (IE, like women do). They are not the same, but you use these concepts interchangeably. Using the “men don’t express emotion” concept to argue men should be expressing emotions, then using the “men don’t express emotions properly” to argue how they should express their emotions. It’s a dishonest argument.
15,000 words & you still didn’t get it Sir, Mark is absolutely correct.
New age or otherwise I don’t have to express every emotion I feel just like women do, not because I am insecure about it or to be different then women, but it amounts to revealing my inner most being in which the other party can truly use to inflict the greatest harm, do you understand that or do you thinki since I am in a relationship I have to walk around with all my feelings on my shoulder in a society were everything is skin deep including marriage.
I have to be able to walk away from anything & everything without losing my center being, it’s a survival m
If you don’t think there is a gender predisposition when it comes to male’s & social interactions not including many other differences between males & females not just because of nurture alone then you are definitely approaching this issue with preconceived ideas, Sir.
. We fear losing our dominance to women, of becoming mere chattels of their desires.
This again. If I had a nickel for every time someone tracked something that’s harmful to men back to being afraid of women or wanting to hold onto control of women…
DR.Cloke
I believe there is more then an ideology or a belief differences between the average male (whatever that is in your circles) & the background & realities most of the writers of article’s like yours definitely, call it parallel universe & probably it’s not as simple as that, I don’t know how or way after all you are the one with PhD in psychology, nevertheless I dare to say millions of us males (young & old)feel complete disconnect with all of these new age semi Freudian but absolutely politically correct feminist academia ideology centered prognosis.
When are people going to stop trying to tell others how to live their life.
Just because I elect not to be an overly and/or expressive emotional being does not hurt anyone, myself include. As a man, I say, “Just leave me the hell alone!” I am who I am and happen to love myself.
Finally, 80% of divorces do not have anything to do with men not accepting the influences of women. It has a lot to do with women who have grown bored, miserable, and sick of their husbands (for an assortment of reasons).
It sounds like men are completely resistant to adaptation. Women have had to change to merely be recognized as a person, and that put a kink in social norms. It won’t happen in a generation folks, but let’s raise our kids so that both sexes can be competent, cooperative, validated members of society. So that they feel good about themselves and their interactions with the opposite sex. The only way that can happen is if Dad can be mature enough to step beyond the “I’m going to riase them tough just like my daddy taught me!” mindset. I’m blown away how many men tell me that! And how many women say “I thought this and that didn’t quite work, so I’m doing it differently with my kids.” Women are not “right” just as men are not “right.” They’re just more adaptable right now. Look at all the research and literature showing that the Western Tough Man Provider just isn’t a necessary role anymore. Let children grow with open minds, not with the demeaning “you’re a sissy” nonsense. Do dads like it when their little boy is the victim of playground bullies? No? They want to go beat up the bully. Well that’s how men treat each other with their ‘tough’ facade. What’s the difference? Women are requiring men to step up their game and men are digging their heels in saying NO! Why? Why make life hard on your own kids? Yes there are physical, structural differences in the actual brain between the sexes, but neuroscience shows whatever gray matter is fed will grow and how much of what’s currently built up is conditioned? Kids are a blank slate until parents pollute them with their views, and to the parents credit, they don’t know what they don’t know. Let’s look at what’s not working right now and do something crazy like learn from it.
It sounds like men are completely resistant to adaptation. Women have had to change to merely be recognized as a person, and that put a kink in social norms. It won’t happen in a generation folks, but let’s raise our kids so that both sexes can be competent, cooperative, validated members of society.
You correctly point out that change won’t happen in a generation after starting off that saying men resistant to it? I dare say that men are not recognized as people either and we are changing that as well.
The only way that can happen is if Dad can be mature enough to step beyond the “I’m going to riase them tough just like my daddy taught me!” mindset.
It’s not maturity. It’s a matter of open mindedness. It’s a matter of recognizing that as a parent he has much more to offer than toughness.
I’m blown away how many men tell me that! And how many women say “I thought this and that didn’t quite work, so I’m doing it differently with my kids.” Women are not “right” just as men are not “right.”
Bear in mind that when it comes to parenting it still relatively new ground for men. In fact there is a post around here (http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/can-a-dad-take-his-daughter-clothes-shopping-and-other-indignities-of-modern-dadhood/) of dads exchanging stories of how they are treated because they are male parents (and even a woman in the comments section that has served as the “token woman” when going out with dads and their daughters).
Like any group that has been pressed down with a specific set of burdens for a long time has to both lift off the burdens and heal from the imprints left behind by those burdens (because it’s not like as soon as the burden is removed all is well).
I dare say that while we may be slower to change, men are indeed changing.
I would like to know your opinion of my husband. We have been married for three years and together for 7. I have never been a small girl, but he never said anything zbout my weight. If I wanted to lose weignt he would support me. Now we are having issues because he doesn’t want to have sex or any other sexual acts with me often. He rather masturbate then wake me or tell me. He waits until I leave the house so he can jerk off. Now I am not stupid and know porn is just something guys like. I do as well to an extent. Why would he rather have porn than me? I try to get his attention by any means and rather play on the computer. Why does my husband not want sex all the time. He is 32 years old and rather play with him self. I am the wife that is different from most. I work out to please him, I make food he likes, I value his opinion and try new things for him, but he rather I not. Maybe you can tell me why he is this way. I just want to know that I am not trying for a lost cause. And yes we comunicate. I have talked to him about this and all he can say is “I don’t know.”