What We Get Wrong About Sex

Premium Membership, The Good Men Project

About Harris O'Malley

Harris O'Malley provides geek dating advice at his blog Paging Dr. NerdLove, as well as writing the occasional guest review for Spill.com and appearing on the podcast The League of Extremely Ordinary Gentlemen. He can be found dispensing snark and advice on Facebook and Twitter (@DrNerdLove.)

Dr. NerdLove is not really a doctor.

Comments

  1. Hi Harris.

    I know it’s only a little bit at the end of the article about infidelity but for me the issue of infidelity is not actually about the sex but about the breach of trust. I would have had just as big an issue if my partners had of kissed a guy passionately as slept with them, and it isn’t because of the kiss or the sex. By and large it means she would not have been talking to me about whatever needs I hadn’t/couldn’t fullfill and seeing how we could have resolved the issue, possibly even with her having a fling, not really my permission so to speak but at least my acceptance of the scenario.

    Trust once gone is very hard to gain back and I don’t know if most relationships can survive a large breach of trust.

    • Hi Harris
      May I ask you something ?
      How about married men’s use of porn? Is that infidelity and a breach of trust?
      I wonder if there is a man on earth today that will promise his bride never ever to look at pornograpy online.
      As a woman I feel that battle is already lost, and men will think I ask for the impossible if I say I don’t want to marry a “porn man.”
      You don’t forgive your wife kissing.another man, but how about porn and webcam porn?
      And if you feel your wife use of online porn is OK,is that because those men she watches are not trying to snatch you woman away from you, like a kissing man can?

      • Ups.typo.
        Your name is LUKE.

      • “I wonder if there is a man on earth today that will promise his bride never ever to look at pornograpy online.”

        Maybe, if his bride promised to never ever let his sexual needs and wants go unsatisfied.

      • Are you assuming that all men are controlled by their sexuality? Not all men are interested in porn.

        • Hi Jessica
          I know . For Muslims it is haram, and there are also some that dislike it.
          And since Internet have thousands of webpages for men opting out of porn use, there will always be men that choose to live without it.

          Do I assume men are controlled by their sexuality ?
          No I do not. To use porn is a choice, it is not a result of a mans inability to control himself. I do not think men use porn because they are controlled by their sexuality .
          They choose to,do so, for various reasons. It is as complicated as Westerns men’s sexuality.

      • FlyingKal says:

        Personally, I don’t see any need for either porn or other forms of “self-stimulating devices” in a marriage/committed relationship, as long as the partners have an active and mutually satisfying sexlife.

        Then again, being in a committed monogamous relationship, should we also consider it a breach of trust to withdraw from having sex with your partner?

        • Hi FlyingKal
          ✺”Then again, being in a committed monogamous relationship, should we also consider it a
          breach of trust to withdraw from having sex with your partner?”✺

          When a man or women do not want to have sex with a person they live with or are married to they have a problem. Unless both want it that way.
          Is it a breach of trust?
          It is impossible for me to see this a breach of trust. Do a man with ED lack trust ?
          Are a women without sexual desire a women that has broken a promise ? Only if she has made a deal that say I will make love to you, as often as you need it no matter what happens between us.

          If you are a Christian you can read what the Bible say about sex and marriage . In fact it sounds a bit like that above . The wife’s body belongs now to her husband and his body belongs to her. But it does not mention desire.

          I was married to a lawyer,and was told that not to love your husband was not a reason for divorce , but to not want to have sex with him was, according to the law. i hope he was wrong.
          This sounds crazy to me.

          Why not talk about this before you marry or move in together and make a deal?
          Just like you discuss what to do if economic problems develops or one of you looses his job.
          What will we do if one part no longer want sex with the other?
          Shall we open for a fling or two, a mistress or drag “the guilty one ” to a sexologist to be fixed? Or shall we say that during dry spells use of porn is permitted ? How do we define a dry spell? One week,a month, six months?

          Shall we conclude that it is the end of a romantic relationship ?
          Maybe it is clear indication that the relationship is in trouble, and the problems needs to be solved? Problems that is NOT sexual.
          Or listen to Ester Perel’s analyses about breeding in captivty?

          To have a deal that say we promise to be open and talk about it is probably not enough, because it can be impossible to give an explanation of why you do not feel turned on and feel a need for distance and not sex.

          Is it smart to see porn use as a strategy to solve the problem , or simply a crutch to survive in a cold near dead relationship? For me it is not,but maybe it is OK for others.

          A man that think marriage means all his sexual needs and wants, and any kind of sex he wants at any time he wants sex will be fulfilled should marry a prostitute. Then he will be happy,(and the prostitute will probably be happy as well to have husband.)

          But to have deal from day one is good.
          The problem is what shall be the content of this deal?
          What is your suggestions Flyingkal?
          Come with some suggestions !
          My parents has a deal about infidelity. My father said she had nothing to worry about. If he wanted to leave her,he would tell her, but he he would never be unfaithful. ” if I want to leave you ,I will tell you”.

          • Hi Iben,
            That was a long reply to a short post…
            I’ve put down some pointers. I have probably missed most of your questions but this is what stood out to me at the first reading.
            When a man or women do not want to have sex with a person they live with or are married to they have a problem. Unless both want it that way.
            Is it a breach of trust?
            It is impossible for me to see this a breach of trust. Do a man with ED lack trust ?
            Are a women without sexual desire a women that has broken a promise ? Only if she has made a deal that say I will make love to you, as often as you need it no matter what happens between us.

            The question about “breach of trust” was asked within a context. It was the context you set up about a man using pornography within a marriage/committed relationship. When we enter that sort of relationship, it is usually assumed that we are to refrain to have sex with other people. I see both questions (porn and non-sexual cohabitation) within this context as ways to try and control our partner’s sexual life and desire.
            So I ask you, do you consider one of them a breach of trust, and not the other? If so, why?
            (And for the record, I guess ED would be a breach of trust in this context, but only for those who consider PiV intercourse as the only “legitimate” form of sex. But I don’t, do you?)

            A man that think marriage means all his sexual needs and wants, and any kind of sex he wants at any time he wants sex
            Not having any of your sexual desires met within the relationship, ever, is a far cry from what you are conjuring up here.

            Why not talk about this before you marry or move in together and make a deal?
            Yes, indeed, why not?

            To have a deal that say we promise to be open and talk about it is probably not enough, because it can be impossible to give an explanation of why you do not feel turned on and feel a need for distance and not sex.
            To talk about it might not be enough. But at least it gives you an option, an idea what you’re up to. It’s sure as hell better than trying to ignore it and leave it to your partner to just try and figure it out…

            Is it smart to see porn use as a strategy to solve the problem , or simply a crutch to survive in a cold near dead relationship? For me it is not,but maybe it is OK for others.
            If it is smart or not is not for me to decide.
            But again, if you have no sexual desires for your partner, should it really matter to you in what way he or she decides to take matters into his/her own hands?

            The problem is what shall be the content of this deal?
            What is your suggestions Flyingkal?
            Come with some suggestions !
            My parents has a deal about infidelity. My father said she had nothing to worry about. If he wanted to leave her,he would tell her, but he he would never be unfaithful. ” if I want to leave you ,I will tell you”.

            I’m not so delusional as to think I have the universal solution to any and all marital problem! Nor naïve enough to believe they can be simplified into merely a single cultural problem. But I have a first rule that is really quite simple! And that is “I can’t even begin to try and fix it if you won’t let me know what’s broken!” Ignoring, avoiding, or simply just don’t caring about an issue will not in any way make your partner happy about it

        • A married man says:

          “Then again, being in a committed monogamous relationship, should we also consider it a breach of trust to withdraw from having sex with your partner?”

          I see it as cheating. Because I feel cheated of years of a satisfying sex life. I see it as a breach of trust because I entrusted this woman with my sex life and she’s happy to let it go by the wayside.

          • Hi A married man

            What does she say when you tell what you tell us here?
            I see this is a trap. You marry, that means a promise not to sleep with others and you take for granted that marriage means she will sleep with you. Not every day, but she will be your wife and not a room mate.

        • If the issue is about “self-stimulating,” then what we’re really talking about here is masturbation. When people get up in arms about porn in a relationship, often what they really have a problem with is the partner masturbating. Is there any girlfriend or wife out there who’s totally happy with the idea of her partner masturbating but categorically against him watching any porn? The two things tend to get judged altogether.

  2. Brilliant article. I’m a virgin male in my late twenties. I try my best not to feel ashamed, despite overwhelming negative media messages about virgins. I try my best not to see it as a problem I need to get rid of as soon as possible.

    However, I do wonder about dating and seduction a lot. As you said in the article, it’s a little crazy to suggest teaching seduction classes in school. But then, how the heck are you supposed to learn?

    I was raised not to date until I was finished with my education and had a stable career. I understand and appreciate the way my parents raised me. However, I constantly feel judged by mainstream society because I’ve never had sex, had a girlfriend, or even been kissed.

    I have no interest in becoming a conformist and having sex just to fit in. I’ve never done anything just to fit in. I would, however, like to learn more about how dating and relationships work in the mainstream culture. I’m highly educated, yet I don’t know the first thing about dating. I see things in movies and TV and I just don’t get it. Things like getting a girl’s number. Once you have her number, when do you call her? What do you call her about? She’s right there, why aren’t you supposed to talk to her now? When you call her, how do you introduce yourself? When are you technically dating? When are you boyfriend and girlfriend? How many dates does one normally go on per week? How many people does one typically date at a time? What do you bring on a date? What do you do on a date? When is sex appropriate? And so on.

    I don’t want to become a pickup artist, but I don’t know who else will teach me the basics of dating at my age. I’m sorry if I sound stupid or sad. I’m not. I’m secure in my masculinity, my schoolwork keeps me busy and motivated, and I feel no shame or regret about the way my conservative parents raised me. I’m proud to say I didn’t betray them by having sex with the first person who’d give it up to me. It takes discipline and self-control not to conform to the mainstream culture’s expectations, especially when they try to make you feel like less of a man for choosing virginity. But now I’m getting older, and I’m eager to learn how things work in mainstream American culture. Where can I learn about dating for beginners in a safe, nonjudgmental environment?

    • Hi name,

      The short answer is:
      “Don’t worry about it so much.”

      Why NOT talk to the girl now? Talk to her first, get her number if you’re still interested before you/she leaves. The supposed wait time to call is three days, but that’s silly. Call her when you have a plan (probably helps to remind her who you are). It doesn’t have to be “when are you free so we can have dinner”. Why not just invite her along on something you’re doing, especially a discovered common interest?

      There aren’t set rules to when you’re “dating” or “boyfriend/girlfriend” or even regarding exclusivity. It’s something you talk about with your partner. Go on a few dates, and be honest about your intentions. How often you date is up to you, them, and your respective schedules. The rules are guidelines, not mandates. When is sex appropriate? When you and your partner are ready for it. Everyone is different; their desires and expectations will vary. Be accommodating so long as you’re comfortable.

      There’s my crash course for the beginner.

    • Name, I very much respect your standpoint. Good for you for doing what you want, rather than being pressured into being someone else. If you have female friends, I would recommend directing your dating questions to the most level-headed and honest one. I’ll take a shot at answering them here, though.

      First, I want to say that you should try to date people who are similar to you. If you’re someone who would prefer to stay in and watch a movie, don’t try to date a party girl. If you’re someone who has a few close friendships, don’t date someone who has 1,000 friends they barely know. If you are interested in a relationship, don’t date someone who is interested in playing the field. Having similar interests will make planning dates more intuitive and will make you feel more relaxed when you’re on the date. Having similar values will make the technicalities of the relationship (when to kiss/be exclusive/have sex) more intuitive and comfortable, as well. Picking the right person will make all of this dating business easier.

      <>
      You can call whenever you want, but most people typically wait for the next day. You can call or text, depending on how well you know her. If you’ve just met, texting is probably the way to go.

      <>
      Keep your first communication short. Limit it to a few pleasantries (“How’s your week going?”) and then try to arrange plans. Your first date should be something that encourages talking (not a movie) so that you can get to know each other, but short enough that it’s not too painful if you don’t hit it off. The best options are typically going to a coffee shop or going to lunch. Short, relaxed, casual, not too much pressure.

      <>
      Men are often burdened with the task of making the first move, but the upshot of that is that they can choose who they talk to. They only talk to people they want to talk to. Women are often in the uncomfortable position of having to talk to someone that they don’t really have a romantic interest in. They either have to end the conversation, which can be awkward and make them feel mean, or continue a conversation when they, perhaps, they would like to talk to their friends. This is why it’s polite limit conversations with people (including men in social situations) you’ve just met – so that you don’t take up too much of their time or force them into rejecting you. If you talk to a woman for 20 minutes, you give her enough time to decide if she’d like to grab coffee with you, but don’t impose on her social plans for the night. Also, if she ends up not being interested in giving you her number, you won’t have wasted too much of your time.

      <>
      Usually a name will suffice. Also acceptable: “It’s Bob from Riley’s Bar” “Hi, it’s Bob. I just wanted to call to say that it was nice meeting you yesterday”. Generally, name/location where you met/time frame when you met is good.

      <>
      The definition of ‘dating’ varies. A lot of people will use this to describe anyone that they go on dates with. For others, it implies going on dates with the intent of forming a relationship. Don’t get too hung up on the wording. The word ‘dating’ is a landmine, so use it sparingly and only around people who know what you mean.

      <>
      When both parties agree that they are. At some point, the dates will become less of “do you want to hang out” and more like “when are we hanging out”. It’s assumed that you’ll see each other regularly. At this point, it’s acceptable to ask if she’d like to be exclusive with you. After that, if things seem to be going well (you’ve met each other’s friends, you feel comfortable and relaxed in each other’s presence and not stuffy on-a-date-like, etc.) one person will ask if it’s official.

      <>
      This depends on a few things. If the person that you’re dating is very busy, seeing them once a week is good. If they have tons of free time and they only want to see you once a week after you’ve been seeing them for two months, that’s probably bad. Typically the first few dates will be a week or two apart, but should increase in frequency from there. What you need to ask yourself is: Does she make room for me in her life or does she only see me when her friends are busy? Does she seem eager to see me again? Is she willing to make plans in advance or does she only want last minute activities?

      <>
      This depends mainly on how many people you meet. You should date who you want to date as long as it’s appropriate. If I’m dating multiple people, I typically end things when one person becomes the preferred party. There’s no use taking up someone’s time if you know you’re not really interested in them. No one wants to invent time and energy into someone only to find that they were second best the whole time. Other than that, you (and she) are allowed to date as many people as you want until you’re exclusive.

      <>
      Typically nothing. If your date is at her house (perhaps she’s making dinner), then you would bring the same type of items as you would to any other dinner party.

      <>
      1st date should be something low-key and short (coffee, lunch), then you can move into something longer (dinner, movie). Eventually you’ll want to pick a date that is conducive to you two being alone. Movie in your neighborhood. Dinner by her place, etc.

      <>
      This varies a lot depending on the people involved. It depends on your values. But you’ll typically know when things are getting close. Most of the time, things will escalate. You’ll make out, then fool around, then sleep together. If things are getting hot and heavy and you think that she may want to sleep with you, you can ask “Should I get a condom?” (And by get a condom, I mean from your wallet, not from the store) This allows you to explicitly ask if sex is okay without sounding awkward (“can i sleep with you?”) and also shows respect by giving her the clear opportunity to say yes or no. Additionally, it spares her the awkwardness of asking you to use protection. There’s no delicate way for her to say that she wants you, but only if you wrap it up. So, it’s a win-win for both of you and generally makes things comfortable for both parties. And if she decides that now is not the right time, no harm no foul. She can back out gracefully while still leaving the door open for future dates.

      Hope that helped.

  3. Hi Harris
    I have not seen Miley’s performance and I have never watched Hanna Montana.
    Nudity does not upset me.

    But I read O’Connors letters.
    And I wonder. What if she is right? What is Miley actually has a mood disorder or a personalty disorder , just like for example Marilyn Monroe had a borderline personalty disorder.

    You can sit still watch and do noting or speak up and show your concern. Her life can become a living hell with health problems like that,and the longer she waits before she has treatment the more difficult it will be to heal. O’Conner knows all about that.
    If Miley has a personalty disorder or not we will never know, because a psychiatric diagnosed is private, but lets not condemn O’Conner.

    But I agree fully with you when you write this:
    ✺”This is how you end up with a frat culture that believes the key to getting laid is to get women drunk –
    it’s an “easier” shortcut than actually learning how to generate sexual attraction. More and more
    teenagers are using sexual coercion – manipulating their partners into “giving it up” by getting angry or playing on their guilt; sometimes out of malice, but often because they don’t know any other way to get laid. Of course, nature (and the free market) abhors a vacuum and people will try to fill it any way they
    can. And when the loudest voices out there offering to fill the void are the frat bros and the pick-up artists, then these are the ones that desperate and lonely people are going to turn to… and often learn all the wrong lessons in the process.”✺

  4. Another great and honest review of the distortions being peddled about sexuality. Kinsey showed for the first time with his survey of men that there is no ‘normal’. Therefore there is only deviation. We are after all individuals and surely each of us knows what we like, especially when it comes to pleasure. My mantra is simple: if it feels good and it doesn’t hurt anyone else, then do it!

    And your comments about libidinal mismatch are so true! A guy goes for months, sometimes years without sex in a dying relationship and let’s face it, if you started masturbating at 12 or 13, by the time you’ve got grown kids, Mrs Palmer and her five daughters is pretty boring. So if sex has been put not at the bottom of the relationship list, but is actually not ON the list, why is a man who then decides to get laid outside of his relationship (he’s not getting laid inside anyhow) a pariah? I understand Luke’s comment above about trust, but where’s the trust if your partner doesn’t know you’re aching for some action with the mother of your children and all you want to do is ‘connect’ again? Damned if you and damned if you don’t.

    The honest way (again back to Luke and trust) is to simply have an honest conversation: I’m horny, you don’t want sex, I do, and I need some. I don’t love you any less and we need to find a way to make this work for both of us ‘cos it isn’t working as it is. I hear so many men living a deadened and miserable existence because the spark of sex that bore the seeds of passion, has waned to a glowing wick. Honest conversation, which does require a man to be in contact with his Heart and his Backbone, means the man has to be in contact with true self. Only then will the magic of two empowered and passionate people be experienced, being true to themselves while in ecstatic harmony with another. That sounds like BLISS!

  5. How about that the culturally defined default position about when being asked for sex for men is YES! Turning a woman down is seen as the sign of a problem with him….. The Idea that women should ask first is still seen as foreign, ’cause of course he’ll say yes…he’s a guy. It’s the hidden issue that pokes it’s head up…….like the idea that an erection is automatically equal to a yes… We talk about how men need to get an enthusiastic yes from a partner yet are eerily quiet on her needing to get the same from him. Both sides need to be addressed

  6. I love your article. I just wanted to add one thing that you didn’t focus on: As adults (young and old) we should be able to talk about sex NOW. Even if we got minimal sex education growing up, it would help a lot if people could just talk about sex directly to each other. “What do you like?” “What feels good?” “What makes you feel sexy?” “What is off limits?” You don’t need to tell every detail on the first date, but we should have started the conversation before the action, if for nothing else than getting an enthusiastic “Yes!”
    Of course the minute we actually start talking to each other instead of insisting on guessing, the Cosmo and the male equivilents will go out of business.

  7. Hi name

    As a European, my advice will probably be wrong for you.
    Here we only go out with one and only one.

    But what if you had a woman friend, and asked her to spend a day with you the way she would love to have her first date?

    Spend a day or some hours, doing what she would love to with a new man she wants to get to know better. Then afterwards you add your own special touch.

    Here is one of my best days with a man I ended up loving for the rest of my life:
    He showed me the city he lived in as a student. He walked with me along the canals, visited the art galleries he liked, and he took me to his favorite coffee and cake place,am bought some tiny sweet cakes that was his favorite.

    Then he took me to visit a friend of his, and first he brought me with him to buy the food and wine we took with us. I remember his choice of smoked fish, the wine he liked….
    It was romantic and I felt like a woman loved.
    I was extremely happy. He gave of time,he planned it all,and wanted to show who he was by taking me trough this city, the walks along canals like he loved, looking at the old town like he loves .

    You have also a story like he had. You can show her what you love the most,and want means the most to you. Botanic gardens, walks in the woods, cat exhibition, jazz concerts, planting trees in your garden ….Anything that you love,and show who you are.
    Do what you love to do, find what you love the most.
    Don’t worry about the sex. It happens when the two of you fall in love. And when a women loves you, you will know it :)

  8. The article was probably much more right than it was wrong. I’m certainly sympathetic to most of what it says. One minor point about the beginning:

    We are NOT living in a world of unprecedented openness about sex. We like to tell ourselves this either to congratulate ourselves or scare ourselves, but really our society just *seems* to be open compared to 3-4 generations ago. Most societies across world history have been more earthy and matter-of-fact about sex than even we are today. Talk to your average peasant 1000 years ago and you’d get a pretty frank conversation about sex. Moderns like to pride themselves on their free expression as if they invented it, but we’re just barely coming out from under a shadow.

    So, this may be another one of those giant but unspoken myths: we are way more open about sex today than anyone has ever been. Or we are somehow exploring totally uncharted territory as a society.

  9. wellokaythen says:

    I can add to the list.

    Another big thing we tend to get wrong is assuming that “sex” refers entirely to penis/vagina intercourse and nothing else. Even more specifically, that “sex” means PIV with man’s legs together and woman’s legs apart, generally in the missionary position, which in mainstream movies appears to be the position most guaranteed to lead to female orgasm. (Right….)

    You see this in the flippant suggestions about young women keeping their knees together, as if all sex requires a woman’s legs to part. A woman can keep her legs together and still get pregnant. Such a total lack of imagination going on out there.

    Related to this is the tendency to see vaginal intercourse in terms of “penetration,” which suggests that the male member is the active one, doing something to the passive, female member. That suggests PIV for women is just “close your eyes and think of England,” instead of being something that women quite actively engage in as well. You could just as easily call it “envelopment” as “penetration.” The penis doesn’t just do stuff. It has stuff done to it.

    As for sex toys, the double standard is rooted in the warped ways that our society treats masturbation. No matter how sexualized we think we are today, we still have a big taboo about discussing auto-erotic activities. This is one reason there’s so much talking about porn today – talking about porn is an indirect way to talk about masturbation, which is what is really at the root of a lot of the hand-wringing (so to speak) over porn. We can speak incredibly openly about rape for a society that can’t quite bring itself to mention masturbation.

  10. Hi Steve

    You write
    ✺”When people get up in arms about porn in a relationship, often what
    they really have a problem with is the partner masturbating.”✺
    I can not not speak for other than myself.
    For my my feelings and attitudes towards mainstream porn of usual kind we see online today has nothing to do with negative attitudes towards masturbation, it has to do with the porn itself. .
    My man can masturbate, and even the thought that I shall dominate or interfere is unthinkable.
    Human beings masturbate. In fact I think it is something wrong with a person that never masturbate.
    But when you have experience from love relationship with a uncritical heavy porn user, you have a choice. Find a new porn man or look for one that has other attitudes.

    I am aware that in some social groups in America masturbation is seen as evil and sinful activity. I guess they have religious reasons for this view?
    But trust me, Steve I think most us that do not love porn are not critical to masturbation or sexuality . Maybe we love sex too much and value it highly :)

    And there are erotic literature, erotic art, and many other sources we can use to enjoy this important part of life.

    • Hi Iben,
      I can see that you may have issues on this from previous experience.
      But I wonder, do you equate any user (intermittent or not) with an uncritical heavy user of “mainstream” p0rn?

    • Fair enough. Thank you for your response.

      If “erotica” is acceptable and “porn” is unacceptable, then my next question is what the difference is, besides individual taste. I assume you wouldn’t rely on your lover’s word for it that he’s only looking at erotica and not at porn.

      • Hi Steve
        You write:
        ✺” I assume you wouldn’t rely on your lover’s word for it that he’s only looking at erotica and not at porn.”✺

        In fact I would trust him. I trust him the same way I trust him when he tells me he stays overnight with friends and can not come home at night . The day I do not trust a man, how can I live him and share my life with him?

        Agreement about use of porn are like any other agreement ,This only works if BOTH WANT it and agree about it.
        If he pretend to agree, and do something else, then where is his integrity?

        To try to control an others persons sexuality is not what I talk about.
        I have never tried to dominate or control a man in my whole life,and do not like men that let women control them.

        I set up borders for myself not for others.
        But I am free to choose who I want to have a romantic ( sexual ) relationship with.
        And if we totally disagree about everything sexual then we are not compatible, and a long term relationship will be difficult even if we like each other.

        I know practically nothing about erotic novels, I have only read a few written by famous authors, some Norwegians and one French. And I see you point.
        My point is that not all description of sexual activity is gross, or devalue women, or show sex that impossibly can give a woman an orgasm, close skin contact and good sex.

        But if a man love to masturbate to sex that hurts women, performed by victims of childhood sexual abuse,or victims of trafficking , or addicts (like it is in porn produced in Eastern Europe ) then he is not the right man for me. It is that simple. I can not respect him.
        You will probably tell me there is more to choose from out there.
        But I wonder why do even amateurs want to share their sex life with the whole world.

        A man here on GMP told us that the first times he had sex with a woman was in front of web cams, so all the world could watch.His first sexual experience with a women was porn, called amateur porn, maybe wearing masks. He did not come.

        This is none of my business. His choice. I choose something else.

  11. “And there are erotic literature, erotic art, and many other sources we can use to enjoy this important part of life.”

    That seems to be a complaint about someones taste in erotica rather than the use of erotica, in general men and women have different tastes. Creating a series comparative value judgments about it seems wrong to me.

  12. Hi Flyingkal
    If I understand your question correctly, my answer is no.

    Maybe it sounds like I am sex negative or like to control a man.
    I can share with you that I sort of envy women that have infidelity , a fling as a 100% deal breaker in marriage and relationships. If they mean it and not only say as a threat.

    I can not say to a man that he looses me,his home, family and more if he strays and have a sexual happening . Simply because I know I do not stop loving him.
    And I do not want to control his sexuality , I can only hope he knows that what follow are impossible to predict.
    To say otherwise is lying.

    And men know they can loose everything if they are sexually unfaithful. But porn use,however seems to be what most men expect to do in monogamous relationship.
    If it did not affect them in any way, I could not care less.

    You should read the brilliant article here on GMP called :” why are men so obsessed with sex”
    The author is qualified to understand, and write about these things , I am not.

    Read that article.
    You see Flyingkal , a mans use of porn will not solve or heal the problem described in that article , but often make it worse. And therefor make his relationship with his woman or women worse, and not better.

  13. Hi Flyingkal

    You ask :

    ✺”But again, if you have no sexual desires for your partner, should it really matter to
    you in what way he or she decides to take matters into his/her own hands”✺
    I am sure any man with hands take matter into his own hands as often as he needs it:)

    But I see two different situation here
    1:
    both see want happens as a dry spell period,and expects desire to return again after some time. I think many couples that are married a whole life have periods like that, and find back to each other again. In that situation I would be careful and fight for my sexuality to return to normal ( so to speak) with other methods than use of porn. If he looses all interest in me I will live like I do when single. That has never happened to me so it is hard to imagine what it will be like to be in a love relationship with a man totally disinterested in sex, or sex with me.
    A women friend of me has lived in a marriage like that without sex for 20 years.
    And she suffers.

    2:
    both think desire has left for good.
    Human beings are all different , but for me to stop having any kind of desire for my man, and knowing it will never come back. It means I do not love him as a man.
    I can’t even imagine that I like him if this is how I feel. If I like him and love him then I also like him sexually .
    .

    You also ask :

    ✺”(And for the record, I guess ED would be a breach of trust in this context, but only
    for those who consider PiV intercourse as the only “legitimate” form of sex. But I
    don’t, do you?)”✺
    No Flyingkal, I do not see PIV as the only way to have sex.
    I am not worried about men’s ED, i have experienced that and it was not a problem. Love is the thing I am afraid to loose. I fear abandonment, and to loose a mans love.

    • Hi Iben,
      I really don’t think that porn use is what most men expect to do in monogamous relationship.
      I think it’s more likely that most men expect to have a sexual relationship with their partner that is somewhat regular and mutually satisfying.

      1. Yes, I do agree with you that porn will not solve the sexual void that many relationships encounter, I have said so many times. But I really don’t think it is what it’s intended to do either. I see it more as a lifejacket to take you through some rough times, more than some yacht that will have you cruising through life. (OK, probably a bad metaphor…)
      But the question was not what you would do if your desire disappeared. More like what you would do if your partner’s desire for you just kind of… dropped. Never saying that it was “forever”, or even admitting to the slightest that it was gone. Just a string of “Not today, maybe tomorrow…” that kind of perpetuated into months, years. And your partner not even recognizing it, as it was nothing to talk about, and even less doing something to alter the situation.

      2. both think desire has left for good.
      Human beings are all different , but for me to stop having any kind of desire for my man, and knowing it will never come back. It means I do not love him as a man.

      When do you realize that it has “left for good”, and that it’s just not a temporary “low”? How long does it take to see this?

      No Flyingkal, I do not see PIV as the only way to have sex.
      I am not worried about men’s ED, i have experienced that and it was not a problem.

      Well, I only asked because you brought it up within this context.

      • Hi FlyingKal
        You write:
        ✺”I really don’t think that porn use is what most men expect to do in monogamous relationship.
        I think it’s more likely that most men expect to have a sexual relationship with their partner that is somewhat regular and mutually satisfying.”✺

        We can agree 100% on that .
        I fact I think we should talk more about what an exclusive relationship actually means when we enter into ,marriage or another sort of monogamous relationship.
        We model our monogamous relationship in the West after the Cristian marriage promise and I suspect Christian marriage actually was based on a sexual union, sex is a sacrament for Catholics.
        The mans body belongs to the wife and the wife’s body belongs to the husband . They are one body.(This sounds pretty sexual to me. )
        So we can’t have our cake and eat it too. Meaning we are dishonest if we stay in a monogamous relationship and say no to sex for extended periods of time,or refuse to deal with sex all together, and refuse to talk about it.

        .
        ✺”When do you realize that it has “left for good”, and that it’s just not a temporary “low”? How long does it take to see this?”✺
        I can only speak for myself.
        When my marriage broke down I sought help from a psychiatrist . My husband refused to join after the first session . Maybe because the psychiatrist asked him straight out:” how long have you had a mistress?”
        I never even suspected a thing like that :)

        After a while I had to admit that I wanted out of the marriage, but felt guilty for wanting to leave.
        But I was 100% certain my desire for him was gone for ever,because I had actually left him emotionally when I stopped having sex with him. My body knew it was over long before that decision reached my brain…..so it was sort of repressed and dishonest. The more honest you are to you self about who you are and what you feel,the easier it is to know when that desire for closeness and sex with another person will never return. At least this is how I feel about it. No tenderness left, no desire ,no good feelings .

        But I realise that for other women it can be hormonal,or caused by depression,earlier sexual abuse,etc..

        You write:
        ✺”Just a string of “Not today, maybe tomorrow…” that kind of perpetuated into months, years. And your partner not even recognizing it, as it was nothing to talk about, and even less doing something to alter the situation.”✺
        This is a terrible situation to live in.
        I do understand you fear to experience this again with a new woman.
        If it happens just ask the woman :” do you want out” and just let her go.

        Do you feel used FlyingKal?
        It is actually possible that she used you, and you loved her. It is this dishonesty that our friend Jules speaks so much about, and I join him.
        A person that is honest in a relationship, does not behave like this. And if she had no idea how she feels, then send her to a shrink. Because normal people do know how they feel,and don’t constantly lie about it.
        And those that have no idea how they feel and refuse to share their feelings and thoughts they need help. They are not good marriage material.

        Maybe you should go out in the world and look for women that is open, sincere and show their feelings. But a woman like that will expect the same from you. Can you do that?

Trackbacks

  1. […] that girls are inferior. It’s also important that he learn all the misinformation we spew about sex in general and male sexuality in particular, as well as the stud-slut double standard. Encouraging a “take […]

Speak Your Mind