What Women Get Wrong About Men

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About Orin J. Hahn

Orin J. Hahn coaches on how to build relationships that have it all, bringing satisfaction out to the personal and professional from within. To find out about his "180 days to A New View" program inquire at [email protected] He is also the editor for the Good Life section at Good Men Project, any submissions are gladly reviewed.
You can follow him on Facebook, Twitter @Orin_explains, and find his writings on his blog "Spirituality for the Sarcastic"

Comments

  1. Jonathan G says:

    Huh, why do your female friends have to get lucky and marry a rich guy? Why not just marry any slightly-ambitious man, since he can’t help but be rich and successful eventually by sheer dint of being male?

  2. This defensive stance is a little much in my opinion. There IS a double standard for women in power positions in the workplace. I think that’s a little hard for any objective mind to argue. A man might be perceived as being a strong leader for acting in the same manner that would result in a woman being perceived as bossy and bitchy. However, I don’t see this add as attacking men as the culprits of this problem. This double standard is propagated by both men and women.. Thinking back, I know that I have been guilty of it myself. I believe the point was to raise awareness of the double standard so that everyone – male or female – can think for a moment about it, and perhaps become a little more self aware about their perceptions of women, in and out of the workplace.

    • Jonathan G says:

      May I ask, how does the Napoleon Complex affect the argument? The fact of the matter is that the exact same double-standard exists for short men. The same behavior that gives the taller guy the air of “boss,” “assertive” or “leadership,” performed by the short guy makes him “bossy,” “aggressive” and “compensating.”

      • It’s female focused, just this. It doesn’t mean men never face problems as well.
        The same goes for blacks when talking about their problems… it doesn’t invalidate the problems other races face everyday. Or gay people, immigrants and so on.

        I agree with everything Slantz said. The video wasn’t blaming men, or saying that men have it easier with everything. Double standards exist and they have to be stopped.

        • Exactly. You don’t just ignore or discount one injustice because other injustices exist. If someone made a video highlighting the double standards that men have to endure, I would be just as open minded about it. I wouldn’t argue that men aren’t allowed to say anything because (insert offended group here) has it bad too. Prejudice of any kind is wrong. Why get angry about a video highlighting double standards women are faced with, just because men also face double standards? The double standards men face do not negate all the other double standards in the world. Why does this have to be perceived as a gender battle? It’s nothing more than an exercise in raising our consciousness about labels. We’re all on the same team here. At least we should be.

    • A lot of the presumed double standards in this ad make it seem as if men don’t have any barriers either in the work place and that women will always receive negative attention for similar male behaviour. We also have also puzzling double standards that don’t even make since in this video such as the whole vanity thing. Not to mention that in terms of female bosses, studies have found that female employees are just as likely to prefer male bosses as male employees and that female employees are largely the contributing factor to work place harassment towards other women especially if the women is attractive.

      The ad also ignores the fact that single,childish women out earn men of the same status so how can women be facing all these double standards yet at the same time be succeeding above men…..and lets not even get into the massive education gap. Now granted I don’t mind the idea of a video highlighting problems for women but the problems displayed in this video seem less about shedding truth and more about fitting some social justice narrative in which all women are victims and all men villains. This video feeds into a zeitgeist that presumes all men have privledge and are literally gods walking on air with no fears,struggles or worries while women are the poor, unfortunate subordinates whom have always suffer and continue to suffer at the hands of these oppressive titans walking above them.

  3. Eduardo García says:

    Orin,
    At one time I thought exactly as you mention. Why were women complaining as not having the same oportunities, or given the same chances at success as men did. I viewed it the same way that meme said, “I have boods, give me free stuff / I have a penis, it’s all my fault.” The truth is that there IS a double standard. Actually the fact that we are supposed to succeed, that our stature is measured by how tall we are when we stand on our wallet, is the flip side that you mention. We DO need to expose that double standard. Feminism brought about an interesting side effect, the liberation of men from THEIR social roles. But we do need to realize that it’s easier for a man to succeed in power stuctures than it is for a woman.
    I actually witnessed a buisness meeting where one of the men participated asked the only female there, ironically one of the principal partners, for coffee. The resulting reactions were hilarious.

    • Theorema Egregium says:

      Not quite. Feminism brought about the realization of the possibility and necessity of liberating men from their social roles. The actual work mostly remains to be done, and it must be done by people like us.

  4. I think Orin you might have missed the point of the video. Firstly, it is NOT an advertisement but an informative video. I have watched it myself a couple of times and shared it on facebook. It is not saying that men are this and women are this, rather, it is trying to show how women in the same position and acting the same way as a man, are given different, more often, negative and demeaning labels. Women and men have these internal sexist double standards ingrained in them but cannot see them for what they are. Women have to first act “feminine in the societal way” eg, be nice, polite, not ask to many questions, first, before they can get to the point. There are many women who complain about having female bosses because they are “bossy” and they are “blah blah blah” yet, if it was a man doing the EXACT same thing, they would not complain. What the female boss asks of them is not bad, wrong, over the top, but simply because it’s coming from a female who doesn’t go about handing muffins before requesting something, she is prejudged to be “bossy or bitchy”.

    I give a personal experience. I was with a male friend who was helping me to network. I had applied for an internship position at an organization and required a letter of reference. During a networking meeting, I asked the person I was introduced to, who was also male, if he would kindly write me a reference letter. He said he would. I was excited, as would anyone in my position, thank him and then asked if it was possible for him to write it sometime the coming week. He said he would work on it and see if he has time. After the meeting, my friend who was helping me network said I had acted “pushy”. I find that was a sexist comment, because if it was a guy who had done the same thing I did, he would have been patted on the back and told how he has a good back bone and is not afraid to go for what he wants by being assertive. So no, the video is not saying men are heartless, have it easy, do not understand, it’s telling women to not let labels put them down because those labels are false, also for women and men not to use those labels on women because they are sexist. If I had taken the comment made by my friend personally I would be afraid to be asking for things or speaking up for myself because I do not want to seem “pushy”. Thankfully to videos such as this and a book I was reading, it made me realise I was not pushy, it’s because I was a female who was outspoken. Nothing more, other than my sex was a factor in his reactions to my actions.

  5. i Orin
    “”"”"Watching it I can’t help but see it as a man, and I wonder if is this really how women think the world is for men? “”"”"

    This is not a video made to show how women see the world.

    And you question feels like an insult.
    Do you really think women that grow up with fathers,brothers ,uncles ,cousins,have male friends, colleges ,lovers and a husband know zero about men and how they feel and who they are?
    We see bus drivers , janitors, homeless , . We see men in top jobs and men picking up the garbide and wash the entrance hall . We see doctors and men working in the lowest payed jobs in the local supermarket .
    We meet poor immigrant workers,and asylum seekers, refugees.
    We meet those dependent on drugs and we see male models walk by.

    What makes you think we are blind and stupid?
    What makes you think we are uneducated and without empathy?

    • BrotherCanYouSpareADime says:

      As someone who has been homeless, it strikes me as *extraordinarily unlikely* that you see us. Maybe 1 person in 1000 will look us in the eye, and often times that look comes with a mixture of pity and disgust. Never as equal, never as peer, never as someone with potential.

      All the rest aside, many people are without empathy. Thanks to the deep and broad social safety net that women enjoy in the western world it’s probable you’ll never experience having a limitless parade of fine, clean, upstanding citizens look right through you… but never at you.

  6. I think a part of the problem is that Pantene is using very limiting experiences to make their points.

    About the boss/bossy, men can just as easily be considered bossy as women. Instead of bitches they are called pricks, dicks, dick heads, and so on. Only difference is while calling women bitches is decried as sexist its still considered okay to call guys dicks.

    About the working late at night part that dad would just as easily be called insensitive, unloving, workaholic for not spending time with family and making his work his life.

    And that “smooth” guy would just as easily be said to be showing off and being full of himself.

    I know that the point of this was to tell women not to let labels hold them back. However they are sort of being dishonest to men by way of casting an illusion that men get a free pass on those things, when they don’t.

    What bothers me is the paired message that already is popular, that of “Men have no problems, they don’t understand.”
    I’ve seen this problem several times in gender conversation. A starting presumption that men are doing just fine or that women already have a perfectly solid understanding of what men’s problems are (and they will almost always be traced back to something meant to harm women) so if men could just take the time to understand women everything would be fine. Which is of course total bullshit.

  7. This article is a good reminder and a good first step for you as a man in speaking about the systems of oppression and how they negatively affect yourselves, the power group. I have often said “Men are their own worst enemies.” Men are responsible for the sexist system of oppression- I’m sorry, but it’s true. As men, you can’t blame women or “society” for not understanding or knowing that men are feeling, fallible beings- You are the final say in American society, particularly if you are (in addition to being biologically male) white, middle class, able-bodied, christian, and straight. I’m sorry if this is hard for you to hear, but you as men are all complicit to sexism and you have created the discrimination you feel- and like Dorothy (who first looked to the wizard for permission to go home!), you’ve had the power to change this all along! You can change it just by being more open and honest about yourselves- to each other, to your lovers, to your family and friends.
    Stop feeding the monster and the monster will die. I promise.
    In American culture you dictate what the truths of gender are. You dictate that men aren’t supposed to have feelings, like army men toys, explosions, whatever, the color blue?!
    Change it!
    Start saying “You know what? I’m a thinking, feeling, human being”- start making that acceptable for yourselves and stop giving your fathers, sons, uncles, friends- whoever- stop giving them shit about those things. Start working on yourselves and create a viable, supportive, male culture. It would do everyone some good. Once you give yourselves permission to be more than two dimensional in society- you, who are the company CEOS, board members, politicians, decision makers, big-time journalists- make a change so that the rest of us can start feeling good about ourselves, too.

    • I should have also included, in regards to the video- this is from the Philippines- where they’ve had a female president. Just sayin… When was the last time a corporation, aside from Dove, put out anything in the United States that was meant to make you question social norms? Hell, when was the last time a corporation put something in an ad to make us feel good about who we are, and didn’t prey on our insecurities?!
      I know that Orbitz makes special commercials for the LOGO network, but those aren’t shown on “regular” channels. They are special commercials for gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people, featuring people from those groups.
      While I do acknowledge that this video is complicit (kind of) in reinforcing fantasies that all male bosses experience respect as bosses without criticism, it is meant to strike up a dialogue that is specifically focusing on the negative criticisms that women experience in the work place, and calling into question why is it that more frequently these positive adjectives are applied to men when women with the same qualities get put down, and put down more publicly. It’s not to make men feel bad- it’s saying “Hey! Lets’ see women who spend time on their hair as ‘neat’ rather than ‘vain’ as caring for and styling our hair is just as important as having a nicely coiffed beard.” I’ve been a boss, and I’ve been called a Bitch to my face by a male employee- in front of other employees- could I fire him? No. I had to live with the humiliation, loss of respect from my other employees, and to add insult to injury I had to have HR meetings with him to “work things out” between us. What did I do to “warrant” his insult? I asked (didn’t tell) him, nicely, to do his job.

    • @kitti,

      Bravo!!!!!!

    • As a man I am not responsible for the way others treat me. I am not responsible for sexism and I damn sure didn’t help create it. So please don’t peddle the line that its somehow my fault unless you want to also line up and take responsibility yourself.

      I hate this macro level thinking when it comes to gender. We are all responsible for the way we treat each other and no gender ideology gives a person a pass for doing the wrong thing.

      • I take responsibility for my actions and words every day- I never said that women don’t feed the system- I said that we didn’t and don’t control the system, and we don’t. I’m sorry, but as a woman in a America, what I say and do does not go as far as what a man says and does- that doesn’t stop me from vocalizing and stirring up trouble, but the fact of the matter is that my word does’t carry as far as yours. That’s sexism.
        I work against it all the time for men and for women. I’ve worked with children and railed against the horrors of “boy colors” and “girl colors” and you know what happens? The father comes and picks up his kid and says “Why the heck are your fingernails painted? Why are you wearing that bracelet? Who said you could wear chapstick?” Mothers may spend more time with their kids, but look up the stats about boys being raised by single moms and the teasing they get- everything from not having a father to being more in touch with their feelings is a negative. And, mothers don’t create the media, which is the single most contributor to the formation of kids opinions of themselves and of each other- Whose in charge of the media? Men. http://www.freepress.net/ownership/chart Take a look at the website and look to see who runs those companies.

        What I’m saying is if you want change- talk to your fellow men about it. Organize yourselves and say that you don’t want sexist advertising that panders to you, preys on your insecurities, and portrays you to as unintelligible horndogs. Give up the power- the objectifying of women and this false dichotomy, and the changes will follow. Reject the system, don’t complain about it because you control it. Use your power to make change, embrace it as a vehicle for changing the world! And if women question your changes, your coming in touch with your feelings or your decision to do something previously considered “unmasculine” call them out on their shit! That’s fine- but don’t tell me that you didn’t create this system, because just by saying that you are oppressing me. I may have autonomy, but I don’t have your power.

      • Eduardo García says:

        Jason,
        Every time you laugh at a racist joke, you are promoting racism.
        Every time you laugh at a gay joke, you are promoting homophobia.
        Every time you laugh at a sexist joke, you are promoting sexism.

        The simple fact that we don’t act against these actions, we are promoting them.

        Yes, you ARE responsible for the double standard. We all are when we allow men to determine what women can and can’t do with their bodies. You are responsible every time you buy a magazine that shows women as objects, or objectifies them.

        It’s easy to say that you are not responsible, but how much are you doing to stop it?

    • “I have often said “Men are their own worst enemies.” Men are responsible for the sexist system of oppression- I’m sorry, but it’s true.”

      So basically you prove your ignorance straight off the bat? BOTH GENDERS are responsible for systems of oppression. Women too have had a heavy role in raising people under this patriarchy and to deny their role is extremely misogynist. Women since time began have had a heavy role in how society was made and I cannot believe people try to deny this and act as if women were only property without an opinion, never ever reinforcing negative perspectives, and in modern times never voting to keep old traditions alive. Men had MORE of a part to play but women still had a part to play in how this world turned out.

      Fact, the majority of time kids spend with one gender is with the female gender. FACT, a lot of what kids learn is directly from women. If today’s people are sexist it’s partly because women as a group have helped teach them to be sexist along with men. Outright denial of women’s agency in how this world has turned out is downright foolish.

      • Saying women had a heavy role in their own oppression is like saying black people also had a big role in their own slavery because they didn’t fought back enough and let themselves be enslave red, unlike the Natives. That gay people had a heavy roles because they let themselves be bullied and silenced for that long. That white straight men had a heavy role because they were supposedly at the top (only a few were), so they could escape easily.

        Now tell me… what always happened when a mother wanted to teach her son to be gentle and her daughter to be independent? Yes, the angry and violent husband would step up and that wasn’t beautiful at all (and it still happens; happened with me, in my own home). What happened when women wanted to stop wars, tell their husbands or sons that it wasn’t good? Again, more oppression and violence. These men, the smallest but most “important” part, dictated all we have now. The only few women that ever dictate something was the women that these actual men decided could speak.
        Fact is, even when you teach someone, they will still learn a LOT from society… so many parents teach their children to be good but they turn out to be bad because their society is tainted. And so many other parents are too afraid… so just tell your daughter to be submissive, because if not she won’t find anyone to marry – and who are women without men (at some point they couldn’t get jobs)? Go and tell your son to be aggressive – delicate men are sissies and never respected. Mothers did let this happen, but fathers imposed it, dictated what should happen and never cared.

        Women always had to play their roles blindly, and please don’t think they suffered humiliation and all types of extreme violence since the beginning because they are masochists by nature.
        Men always had to play their roles as well. Being the “oppressed oppressor” was great because that would make their own pain “easier”, the promise of superiority makes the wounds more tolerable.
        What he/she was saying is that, still today, American society is ruled by white heterosexual males. You know, the few ones that dictate everything in the shadows. And that since the beginning women were always at the very bottom, and still are.

        • “Saying women had a heavy role in their own oppression is like saying black people also had a big role in their own slavery because they didn’t fought back enough and let themselves be enslave red, unlike the Natives. ”

          Actually there were some blacks who sold others into slavery. Women today still contribute heavily to gender roles which are oppressive, they have far more agency than you give them credit for. Were women slaves for the entire history leading up to the right to vote?


          Now tell me… what always happened when a mother wanted to teach her son to be gentle and her daughter to be independent? Yes, the angry and violent husband would step up and that wasn’t beautiful at all (and it still happens; happened with me, in my own home). ”

          Every single husband was violent?

          “What happened when women wanted to stop wars, tell their husbands or sons that it wasn’t good? Again, more oppression and violence. These men, the smallest but most “important” part, dictated all we have now. The only few women that ever dictate something was the women that these actual men decided could speak.”

          They followed the men who wanted to stop the wars, either they fought against the ruling party or toed the line, or died protesting.

          Do you notice you’re placing men in a category of having far more agency than women when it was only the very elite who made the decisions? Most people who lived were working class/peasants under the rule of the few. In the time of Cleopatra, was it men in charge?

          “Mothers did let this happen, but fathers imposed it, dictated what should happen and never cared.”
          Again you give the agency to men, and women just did whatever he said. Society evolved with both genders putting their effort into it, the elite had heavy power but society and culture still had both genders contributing to it. Those mothers, women still had some part to play in enforcing gender roles and enforcing their own oppression.

          “And that since the beginning women were always at the very bottom, and still are.”
          In some years yes but everytime there was a war with conscription the majority of men were far far far lower than that of women who (in the non-invaded country) were afforded a great level of protection whilst men were forced to fight or die.

          Do you think these gender roles evolved out of necessity or the big bad men decided one day to keep women as livestock?

      • I’m sorry Archy, but saying “fact” doesn’t make something a fact, it’s still just saying “fact”- even IF YOU PUT IT IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS IT IS STILL JUST SAYING FACT.

        “Men had MORE of a part to play but women still had a part to play in how this world turned out.”

        Observation: your ignorance is showing.

        I never said that women didn’t contribute to the systems of oppression- I said we didn’t create it and we don’t control it. “MORE” you put it there in all capitals again, so I wouldn’t miss it, but some how you did. MORE- Men have more control, men need to start doing their part in rejecting the system. Stop talking about it and do something. You are victimizing me and yourselves! Reject the system of oppression, reject the objectification of women and the products that prey on your insecurities, start being honest with yourselves and others and the system will break.

        Also in relation to kids: Kids may spend more time with women (you did after all write “fact” next to it), but how does that correlate to them learning more from women? Most two parent households have both parents working, resulting in the kids spending more time alone or at a day care, where television, computers, and video games are their parents. Talk to a single mother about the struggles of raising any child on their own, doesn’t matter, male or female. Single moms have to work extra hard because they don’t get the same pay as men, so as a result kids end up in daycare (again) somewhere, probably again with a woman, but what does that mean when there are 15-30 other kids? Plop! In front of the tv, computer, movies, video games, whatever. And who creates that media?
        Take a look here http://www.freepress.net/ownership/chart see who runs those companies.
        Find a study that shows the majority of what children learn and is reinforced comes directly from women. I would love to read it.

        • “I never said that women didn’t contribute to the systems of oppression- I said we didn’t create it and we don’t control it. ”

          Women didn’t help create a system that played heavily into biological roles of each gender, that men and only men decided one day that women should do more safer work, look after the kids and the nest whilst men were the protectors and brought in large n dangerous prey? These gender roles evolved out of necessity at the time because men couldn’t breastfeed and men’s physical strength benefitted the largely physical labour required in external jobs, especially when construction of buildings started and farming came about.

          “Reject the system of oppression, reject the objectification of women and the products that prey on your insecurities, start being honest with yourselves and others and the system will break.”
          Why only the objectification of women? I already reject systems of oppression where I can. I don’t follow gender roles, infact I am about to sew up a hole in some pants.

          “but how does that correlate to them learning more from women?”
          I was talking about a larger time frame than recent history but even the statistics on work in the U.S show women get more facetime with children.

          “Single moms have to work extra hard because they don’t get the same pay as men, so as a result kids end up in daycare (again) somewhere, probably again with a woman, but what does that mean when there are 15-30 other kids? Plop! In front of the tv, computer, movies, video games, whatever. And who creates that media?”

          Which men? What field? What job?

          Who creates that media? Both genders.

          “Find a study that shows the majority of what children learn and is reinforced comes directly from women. I would love to read it.”
          The overwhelming majority of teachers are female, mothers on average have more time spent with children. Do you honestly think they are not learning a huge amount from them? Yes society plays a large role but parents are one of the primary teachers of children, and most schooling is done by female teachers.

          Why is it so hard to believe that both genders contributed to the patriarchy? Were women purely slaves to men? Every single woman was a slave and had zero choice at the start of the human race? Patriarchy was not created by men, it was created by both genders as a way of labor distribution taking each genders advantages and placing them in a role to suit. Higher levels of muscle mass and strength allowed men more ability to take control, and the gender role of men forced men into the positions of power (eg the warriors) which also allowed the bad ones to take control of all others (the monarchs/warlords).

          http://permutationofninjas.org/post/30120518447/on-the-evolution-of-patriarchy-and-why-men-didnt-do – This article has an interesting theory on the birth of patriarchy and it does seem to make the most sense to me. If you have proof of patriarchy being born differently then show me. The site might be anti-feminist or at least critical of feminism but ignore that, I’m just talking about the evolution of the gender roles from biological differences. All throughout the animal kingdom we have labor distribution based on physical abilities, luckily now we’re at a point where physical labour is far less valueable and mental labour is highly prized so both genders can do many of the jobs especially since machinery has also heavily reduced the physical strength needed for many jobs. In the past before breastmilk alternatives a mother was a necessity to be the primary child caring parent, these days we can have stay at home fathers doing that role but before the infant would have starved if the mother was out hunting all day.

        • kitti,

          I agree that the system sucks and I agree that it sucks in particular for women, though not exclusively for women. I also agree that men are mostly responsible for this sucking.

          But I’m not “men”.

    • Mr Supertypo says:

      “This article is a good reminder and a good first step for you as a man in speaking about the systems of oppression and how they negatively affect yourselves, the power group. I have often said “Men are their own worst enemies.” Men are responsible for the sexist system of oppression- I’m sorry, but it’s true. As men, you can’t blame women or “society” for not understanding or knowing that men are feeling, fallible beings- You are the final say in American society, particularly if you are (in addition to being biologically male) white, middle class, able-bodied, christian, and straight. I’m sorry if this is hard for you to hear, but you as men are all complicit to sexism and you have created the discrimination you feel- and like Dorothy (who first looked to the wizard for permission to go home!), you’ve had the power to change this all along! You can change it just by being more open and honest about yourselves- to each other, to your lovers, to your family and friends.”

      Kitty I dont know where you got this weird idea, but the society is made by men and women, and the social rules are forced by both men and women. Men arent the only enforcer around, you know. But I guess if you had spent some time studying patriarchy and sexist culture, you should know that already ;-)

      Beside men (white or otherwise) are just as powerless as anybody else in changing the rules, because we can only change the rule together, because together we make the world. So women are also accomplices of the sexist culture. Sorry if it hurts, but its true.

      • Three things:

        1) My name is Kitti- thanks for reading so closely.

        2) I never said that women aren’t complicit in the creation of society and aren’t complicit in the system of sexism. If you’re going to quote me, again, please read what I’ve written rather than taking this as an opportunity to “teach the woman”.

        3) In summary, your condescending attitude, inability to even spell my name properly, failure to read what I wrote closely, desire to “teach” me, desire to shame me, and lame use of a winky face shows that not only have you never studied patriarchy and sexist culture, you have a complete lack of awareness of yourself as an actor in the system.

        • Mr Supertypo says:

          1) My name is Kitti- thanks for reading so closely.

          Just a typo.

          2) I never said that women aren’t complicit in the creation of society and aren’t complicit in the system of sexism. If you’re going to quote me, again, please read what I’ve written rather than taking this as an opportunity to “teach the woman”.

          You claimed

          ‘ Men are responsible for the sexist system of oppression ‘ and ‘ but you as men are all complicit to sexism and you have created the discrimination you feel- and like Dorothy (who first looked to the wizard for permission to go home!), you’ve had the power to change this all along! ‘.

          So you are implying that men and men ONLY are responsible for sexism. And men should not complain because we have the power to change everything ( I dont see you mentioning women everywhere) . I disagree, and you can assume all kind of motive behind my disagreement like “teach the woman” (how patronizing) but instead creating imaginary motives I suggest you should focus on what I say. And I didnt even knew you identify as a woman. And another thing stop accusing people of sexism, if I disagree with a woman I disagree because of her arguments, not because of her gender. But I guess you already know this. Nice trolling.

          3) In summary, your condescending attitude,..

          Condescending attitude? how about yours? both rude and patronizing. Thank you very much!!!

          • Once again, you would have known I was a woman as I identified myself as one in my comments, if you cared to read my comments- not even closely, but to completion!- and not be so quick to correct me. I gave you credit for at least having the decency to read my complete comment before taking me to task, and you didn’t even care enough to do that.

            Just a typo of someone’s name is not having the presence of mind and caring enough to get it correct, and that’s a privileged, entitled attitude- you see that in sexism and within all systems of oppression. I always take the time when addressing someone, if I’m going to use their name, to get it correct. It’s a sign of respect and overall a good practice. You took the time to address me, take the time to get my name correct.

            I’m not some trolling woman looking for a fight. I’m a person who reads this site, shares its articles, and took an opportunity to speak my mind when I saw an issue, where the author asked for feedback. I’m sorry that you still think that I don’t see women as complicit in the system of sexism, and that you don’t care enough to read my critiques closely. But now that I know you don’t read in context and to completion, that all makes sense.

            • Mr Supertypo says:

              ” Once again, you would have known I was a woman as I identified myself as one in my comments, if you cared to read my comments- not even closely, but to completion!- and not be so quick to correct me. I gave you credit for at least having the decency to read my complete comment before taking me to task, and you didn’t even care enough to do that. ”

              You didn’t identify yourself directly as a biological woman. If I missed that part Im sorry, but its the least important. For me you could be a man, woman, a dog or even a alien. That doesn’t make my point invalid.

              “Just a typo of someone’s name is not having the presence of mind and caring enough to get it correct, and that’s a privileged, entitled attitude- you see that in sexism and within all systems of oppression. I always take the time when addressing someone, if I’m going to use their name, to get it correct. It’s a sign of respect and overall a good practice. You took the time to address me, take the time to get my name correct. ”

              Maybe where you live a typo and a smileys is a deadly offense, but not where I am. And a typo means, tasting the wrong letter. No more no less.

              “I’m not some trolling woman looking for a fight. I’m a person who reads this site, shares its articles, and took an opportunity to speak my mind when I saw an issue, where the author asked for feedback.”

              Really then why all the rudeness? why make a issue out of a smiley and a typo? why go personal? did I call you names? did I behaved in a disrespectful manner toward you? In my post I only disagree with you (smileys and typos are not offenses) and that’s not offensive and deserving at least a respectful answer. Instead of the “teach the woman” and personal stuff. Yeah I go all offended if people attack me personally (as any other normal person) why going all personal all sudden? why going off topic?

              ” I’m sorry that you still think that I don’t see women as complicit in the system of sexism, and that you don’t care enough to read my critiques closely. But now that I know you don’t read in context and to completion, that all makes sense.”

              All your post indicate that.

              You wrote this

              “Men are responsible for the sexist system of oppression- I’m sorry, but it’s true. As men, you can’t blame women or “society””

              “but you as men are all complicit to sexism and you have created the discrimination you feel” etc etc.

              Yeah from your posting I don’t see you believe women and accomplices. Patriarchy is made by men and women and it is enforced by both men and women. Men alone are just powerless. Men cannot change this system of sexism alone, and neither can women. We can only do this together. And I stand by my words since you have offered no counter arguments, just a nebulous ‘ I didn’t read your post properly’

        • “I never said that women aren’t complicit in the creation of society and aren’t complicit in the system of sexism. ”

          You just said “- I said we didn’t create it and we don’t control it” to me so which is it?

          You take offense at his “teach me” attitude, yet your original comment had it. I don’t get it, do you just not like opposing views or is it him specifically?

          “If you’re going to quote me, again, please read what I’ve written rather than taking this as an opportunity to “teach the woman”.”
          Are you teaching us men about society n life?

    • Kitti: ya know its funny you say men are responsible for sexism and tools of oppression. Do you know that a study a few years ago found that the majority of our sexist attitudes are actually taught to us from our mothers….hmmm funny how that works.

      Anyways your resorting to the apex fallacy, wherein you apply the insignificant percentile of the male population at the top as a general flowchart of how all men in society must be. The simple truth is that for every man who is CEO of a Fortune 500 company, there a million at the bottom rung of society who are either homeless or who are dead working in blue collar jobs. Over 90% of work related deaths are men and the majority of the homeless population are men. Men over represent the top and bottoms sectors of society…except the few who are at the top fail to match the ones left as nameless cannon fodder. It’s therefore quite silly to say men are responsible for their own problems because just as many men as women are helpless about the circumstances of their lives. This also completely ignores the influence and power women do have in society….cause ya know there have been women rulers in the past and you would be foolish to believe wives and daughters never had any kind of input.

      Believe it or not men are not the omniscient gods people like you make us out to be. Granted a very tiny minority might have power (most of which was earned) but a even larger majority are suffering because they don’t have any power at all….and sadly these kind of men are ignored and not even acknowledge because people like you convince the wider cultural zeitgeist that “men=power”which of course means these men’s suffering is their own fault. You gotta like dat sexism eh:)

  8. We’re still dealing with the ripple effect and aftermath of deep misogyny and racism as illustrated by these ads from these advertisments. The baby boomers were raised with this mentality. The baby boomers’ kids have been negatively affected by it too. If the show fits, wear it. When people do, healing and change for the better comes faster. Ultimate goal: Complete equality.

    http://wallstreetinsanity.com/14-vintage-advertisements-that-would-definitely-be-banned-today/

  9. Typo: If the shoe fits, wear it.

  10. “Watching it I can’t help but see it as a man, and I wonder if is this really how women think the world is for men?”

    Yes, some women have an envious view of men’s lives.

    Most times I hear about a boss, male or female, they’re referred to as assholes and negative words thrown at them like crazy. A male boss who is “bossy” will be called an asshole, a female will be called a bitch.

    • I wouldn’t say envy, but they wish some things were as easy, or as fair, for them as well. The same goes for any minority.
      Yes, you are right. Still, it’s proved most people prefer male bosses. And most men can’t stand receiving orders from female bosses, while tolerating the male bosses a lot better.

    • “Yes, some women have an envious view of men’s lives.”

      Observation: there’s your ignorance again, right off the bat.

      Women aren’t envious of men’s lives, women are tired of being held to a different standard than men- there’s nothing wrong with the interpretations of men in that video, it’s all positive stuff! I have no problem with people seeing men that way- I just want to be seen that way as well. It isn’t “envy” it is disgust with the sexist system of oppression.

      • My ignorance? I said some women. I’ve KNOWN women who envied men’s lives with a rose coloured view of what their life is like. Hell I saw one think men had privilege in being able to walk the streets safely WHEN MEN are the majority victims of violence on the street.

        “there’s nothing wrong with the interpretations of men in that video, it’s all positive stuff! I have no problem with people seeing men that way- I just want to be seen that way as well. ”
        That’s the point though, it acts as if men are not getting criticisms over it. I’m yet to hear a nice word said about a boss male or female. Where I live they get so much shit thrown at them, regularly called C&NTS (both genders get called this, aussie version not referring to female genitals), assholes, etc.

  11. Do women think men have it easier?

    I’m one of those people who think that gender does not change people that much. If we got “man” and “woman” out of the way, we could finally manage to understand “people”! And this is one spot where both genders are not male, not female, but just human:

    Do some men think women have it easier? Yup
    Do some women think men have it easier? Absolutely
    Is the grass always greener on the neighbor’s lawn?

    We’re all humans!

  12. Orin, to answer your question, yes, sometimes it does seem like the world is the way the clip/commercial portrayed. I do believe women are more harshly criticized by both men and women alike. I think that the old boys club is still alive and well in the business world. I think other women are trying too hard to live up to social expectations and feel so much pressure battling insecurity along with jealously and focusing on the wrong things because the world likes a much more shallow image of women then it likes a more complex, messy and imperfect one.

    Now it doesn’t bother me and neither do I expect men to always understand all the ways women “hurt”. But what does often trouble me is how often in these discussions, when women try to talk about how they hurt, how many men deny women’s experiences and thoughts and beliefs and don’t simply listen to us. They think that women have achieved a fair amount of equality and all their battles must have already been won. They think that because we’ve come a long way in society, that now all our problems are solved so it’s time for us to “shut up”. And when women try to articulate how they feel, they are told about all the ways men have it worse or how it’s not men’s fault and how women shouldn’t expect to count on men since it’s not their fault or their responsibility. It kind of makes you feel like you are standing outside on a cold night, the world having denied you a blanket to keep you warm. You knock on a man’s door not looking to blame him but just for some help and understanding and he looks at you and says, “Well, I didn’t get you in that situation, it’s not my fault your cold.” And it isn’t. But then he slams the door in your face because even though it’s not his fault, he doesn’t want to help you much either.

    I have often felt that the world gets off on punishing women. We are whores for liking sex. We are bitches when we are assertive about what we want. We ruin men’s lives. We ruin the lives of our children. Especially when a man isn’t around to protect the children from all our foolish ways. “Bitch” has become such a common word used during prime time TV in ways I don’t see other curse words used. Is this how the world really is? All I know is that is SOMETIMES how the world SEEMS to me as a woman.

    Lets consider this one small element of the bigger picture. A heavy majority of advertising uses women to sell products. From showing the perfect mom, the sweet and pure good girl, the moral gate-keeper, the sexy vixen with the perfectly in-touch sexuality with the smoking hot looks and all those inbetween stereotypes. It doesn’t matter if it’s cars, motor oil, or cleaning products and jewelry. Next time you have the tv on, take stock of the amount of commercials that sell idealized images of women to sell other products more so then it does with men. Women remain the most used “product” to sell other products. We have so many over the top ideals about how women are suppose to be or not suppose to be and I believe it trickles into both many women and men learn to perceive women.

    When Charlie Sheen when on a bender, disrespecting his cast mates, banging hookers next to where his little girls slept, he got a brand now equally misogynistic show. When Paula Dean made a honest comment and dealt with a direct question, she was completely castrated and her show and empire was discontinued.

    I do not think this brief public service message is implying that men do not have doubts, fears or concerns. But I will say that I think alot of men have been too quick to assume that all women’s problems have been solved simply because we’ve made a little headway in our society. Where as I look at the steps women have taken toward equality as being small ones, it appears that a lot of men believe we’ve fully achieved equality and now we are selfish because we don’t feel we have.

    It seems like there is a lot of anger toward women in the world. And it often seems like the world is eager to punish and put women down or to use a very old phrase “put them back in their place.”

    I don’t think this video is implying men have no problems. It is only taking one segment of an issue that appears to be intrinsic to a lot of women for this kind of video to get made and responded to in the first place.

  13. I’ve seen a few comments here saying that “men” created the system that we are all being burdened by.

    Who exactly are these “men”?

    I’m asking because despite all the individual men that clearly had no hand in created this system we are still being held to a different (well let’s be honest, higher) level of responsibility for doing something about simply because we share gender with these “men” that created the system.

    • Danny, if you hear someone say that “men” created the system, it’s because that is truly what someone thinks. Instead of disparging that, how about listening to it, asking that person why they feel that way, seeing if any part of you can somewhat understand their point of view and then add to their comments with your own. Instead of looking to dismiss their comments, add to them!

      I have seen you make plenty all encompassing comments about women and what they do that you believe are harmful. You are so concerned about the word “blame” and so very sensitive to it, and frankly, I see many men who are, we can’t get past that to address the actual issue. Out of everything I said, all you care to talk about how you aren’t repsonsible and you’re not to blame. This is a common rejoinder. Especially on GMP.

      It’s been my experience that men do not take any kind of critcism well. In response to criticism alot of men often meet it with defensiveness, deflections, anger, flip blaming and anything other then thinking about and considering how a man might contribute to a negative social situation or considering how other men do and reflecting on the actions of other men as much as his own. So many men on the GMP are so angry at women and feminism and all the ills they think feminism caused them, they don’t leave much room to extend themselves further and look inward. I don’t think a lot of men are too comfortable yet looking inward at themselves. And then again, a lot of men are. Hence the GMP to begin with and all the fabulous articles I’ve seen of men doing just that. But there is still a strong hold of men who are looking outward at problems instead of inward.

      You don’t have to be the man who created to system to be the man who sometimes might be participating in it. And whether we like it or not, all of us, at some point, participate in the system. I’m a woman and sometimes I participate in it! It’s my job to be self aware enough to see where I falter and what I do that upholds negative stereotypes because I’m not a perfect person and to challenge myself.

      The GMP has done a lot for me to see so much more of men that most men and media allows. Some of the things I believed before I came here have very much been challeneged and changed. Some beliefs I had were not fair toward men and that keeps evolving.

      But based on what you say, today’s men hold no responsibility at all to anyone. They didn’t create the system and they aren’t repsonsible for it or responsibe in challenging their long held beliefs about women in relation to themselves or other men. Believing that is crazy to me. Especially because I personally believe we all have a responsibility to one another. Especially if you want romantic relationships with another person.

      You’re worried about blame and responsibility. But your fear of “blame” and being held responsible keeps you from looking at the issues from a new perspective. Mainly one that would require you to look inward and to look at the actions of other men and hold them accountable.

      I go back to my blanket anology I used above. Alot of women are just asking from some help from men and we are getting the door slammed in our face being told that he didn’t create it so he isn’t responsible to help.

      • Asking what someone means by something isn’t an attempt to disparage what they believe and feel.

        Out of everything I said, all you care to talk about how you aren’t repsonsible and you’re not to blame. This is a common rejoinder.
        This is about more than just you (if this were just about you I would have replied to your comment instead of making a general comment) and I’ve already commented about the video itself so its hardly the case that that is all i want to talk about.

        But based on what you say, today’s men hold no responsibility at all to anyone. They didn’t create the system and they aren’t repsonsible for it or responsibe in challenging their long held beliefs about women in relation to themselves or other men.
        Not what I said. Do men have responsibility to change things? Yes of course. But what I don’t agree with is the idea that by virtue of being men we have some extra responsibility.

        Let me try to explain this. When participating in the gender conversation I’ve noticed that pointing out things that affect women and pointing out things that affect men garner two very different responses. The former tends to get the response that this is a change that needs to be made to the system and everyone needs to work on it while the latter tends to the response that the change needs to be made among men and not with the system. This is where the some of that defensiveness comes from.

        This isn’t a fear of blame or responsibility. Its a response to constantly being told that you, as a man, are responsible for nearly everything that’s wrong just because you are a man.

        Alot of women are just asking from some help from men and we are getting the door slammed in our face being told that he didn’t create it so he isn’t responsible to help.
        I can tell you from a male perspective Erin that men get the same thing from women. Asking for help (or even pointing problems) can easily result in being told that women have no power or responsibility and that we should take things up with our “fellow men”.

        • There is nothing in my post that suggests that I believe that this is all about me and that somehow inhibited you from replying to more then just the idea of blame and responsibility when it comes to men.

          There is a regular problem within these conversations where men’s fear of women not talking responsibility and accountability overrides their exploration of their own responsibility and accountability. When we are so quick to look to another instead of within ourselves, we miss so much. I see so many men deflecting the conversation about responsibility in fear that women won’t also take responsibility. They don’t want to explore their own responsibility because they are more interested in women taking responsibility then they are in their own. This also happens with women, I am not suggesting it does. But I see it alot on the GMP which is why I am saying it the way I am.

          Discussing topics in fear that the other gender will take advantage and not live up to their end of the bargin creates the same shallow, self-defeating, deflecting conversations that we often have rather then us exploring our own responsibility and accountability with depth and exploration. We can explore our individual and gender based responsibility independent of the other gender if we are confidence and comfortable enough looking at our own imperfections.

          You couldn’t even simply acknowledge my analogy without you having to say “men feel that way do!” You assume that I’m somehow trying to discredit men. And while men very well may feel just that way, you didn’t even seem to know how to acknowledge this independent of men.

      • “I go back to my blanket anology I used above. Alot of women are just asking from some help from men and we are getting the door slammed in our face being told that he didn’t create it so he isn’t responsible to help.”

        Ever consider that maybe HOW “you” (not you personally, but women in general) are asking is causing the doors to be slammed in the face? Why would men get defensive over simply being asked to help? I believe it’s largely because there are a LOT of women who place too MUCH blame on men, who blame patriarchy solely on men, who will blame war n violence solely on men and many men including myself get utterly sick of hearing about how bad men are, being insulted over n over because I have a penis and treated as if I am some warmongering rapist pedophile.

        I gladly help people who ask nicely where I can, lately I’ve been trying to educate other men and women online in comments at times on certain things relating to women’s issues such as slut shaming, etc. Just yesterday I pointed out slut shaming over Rashida Jones’ comments.

        I don’t reply to the super snarky style “feminism” such as some Jezebel articles, I’ll slam the door in their face too. When some people try to shame men into helping or focus only on the negatives of men, use privilege as a way to silence the men on their own issues then they will get that door slammed awfully hard.

        It boils down to…Don’t treat men like shit then ask them for help. Get angry at those other women treating the men like shit, the ones that belittle men opening up about their issues or ones that treat men with contempt. They’re doing a lot of harm and making a lot of men close up and not want to help. Make comments against those women telling them to stop being assholes, men need to do the same and then you’ll get that magic empathy between genders opening up again.

        • Mr Supertypo says:

          ” It boils down to…Don’t treat men like shit then ask them for help. Get angry at those other women treating the men like shit, the ones that belittle men opening up about their issues or ones that treat men with contempt. They’re doing a lot of harm and making a lot of men close up and not want to help. Make comments against those women telling them to stop being assholes, men need to do the same and then you’ll get that magic empathy between genders opening up again. ”

          Well said Archy. This should actually be highlighted because it can simply avoid us all tons of pointless butchering that end up being improductive.

          • Archy, it’s very easy for every single one of us to become defensive. After all, we’ve all been hurt, often, multiple times. Getting hurt and feeling defensive is pretty universal. Having been hurt by men myself, doesn’t mean I shut the door on men. And it’s *my* and no one else’s responsibility to make sure that I infact don’t shut the door on men. If a man decides to shut the door on a woman, that is his responsibility as well.

            What is interesting about your statements are you focused on women who blame men. You never touched on what men’s responsibility was in blaming women and how men’s blame affects women. You boiled the situations down to what women do to men and how it’s women’s fault.

            The more of us who stop slamming the door in the other’s face, who stop making up excuses about why it’s okay to slam the door in the other’s face born out of our own pain, who stop holding onto our own hurts over finding ways to solve issues,the more we will be the determining factor in how we move forward or don’t. The only thing that will erect change is to stop cutting others down because of our own pain. Pain that very well may be justified. Pain that should be heard. But not pain that should close us down and inhibit us.

            You also have to be willing to accept that there are more imperatives at play then simply men being treated like shit and being abused and them shutting down because women forced them too through all the terrible things women did to men. Men do terrible things too. That doesn’t justify women turning their back on men .Especially the good men that need support.

            And frankly, I don’t see men who simply shut down on women who are not nice. I see men shut down on all kinds of women. Even in these conversations, the shutting down happened a long time ago before the conversation even began sometimes.

            Don’t just justify why it’s okay to turn you back on someone else and then demand they do things you (the general you) are not willing to do yourself.

            • Hi Erin
              “”"And frankly, I don’t see men who simply shut down on women who are not nice. I see men shut down on all kinds of women. Even in these conversations, the shutting down happened a long time ago before the conversation even began sometimes.

              Don’t just justify why it’s okay to turn you back on someone else and then demand they do things you (the general you) are not willing to do yourself.”"”"”
              Well said !

            • Thanks Iben!

    • I’ve seen a few comments here saying that “men” created the system that we are all being burdened by.
      Who exactly are these “men”?
      I’m asking because despite all the individual men that clearly had no hand in created this system we are still being held to a different (well let’s be honest, higher) level of responsibility for doing something about simply because we share gender with these “men” that created the system.

      I am going to throw a arbitrary year out there, let’s call it 1900. Name all the women prior to 1900 that held leadership positions in government, business, or society in general that would have had a hand in creating the system of inequality as you claim.

      And if you were being held to a “higher standard”, you wouldn’t be whining about things, you would be out there changing things for the better. So which is it? Are you being oppressively held to a higher standard, or are you just coasting along making excuses to avoid being concerned about what happens to people who aren’t you?

      • And if you were being held to a “higher standard”, you wouldn’t be whining about things, you would be out there changing things for the better. So which is it? Are you being oppressively held to a higher standard, or are you just coasting along making excuses to avoid being concerned about what happens to people who aren’t you?
        Being to a higher standard which calls being expected to care about and take responsibilities for the troubles that women face (which I have no problem with) but when I bring up my own I’m told they are my own fault (which of course is a problem).

        • Being to a higher standard which calls being expected to care about and take responsibilities for the troubles that women face (which I have no problem with) but when I bring up my own I’m told they are my own fault (which of course is a problem).

          You do realize that you are conceeding that women as a group face certain troubles, but you want your very individualized problems to be treated with equal weight? As in, your individual difficulties should be considered the equal of what tens or hundreds of thousands of women experience on a daily basis.

          Does that sound right to you? Would you expect an entire supermarket to shut down all transactions for the day until your groceries are cashiered and taken to your car?

          If you have been discriminated against, by all means, contact the proper agency. No one is denying you that right, nor that you are somehow less of a person because you do so. But you will have a very difficult time demonstrating you were discriminated against because you belong to a specific class called “men”. That is what women face every day; even before they have a chance to show they are competent or incompetent, they are already categorized as a secondary concern. You don’t face that. You won’t EVER face that. And super double you won’t EVER EVER face that if you are caucasian or reasonably pass as caucasian.

          When you suceed, it’s because you are smart, talented, driven, or whatever. When you fail, it’s bad luck, a tough situation, or just in the wrong place at the wrong time. When a woman suceeds, it was ‘sleeping her way to the top’, simply luck, or occasionally (and grudgingly) that she has some small skill. When a woman fails, it is expected, it is because women just aren’t good at whatever task is at hand, or because she should know her place, and often because the deck was stacked against her.

          That is the bonus you get just for being male. You are the default. Your achievements are automatically valued. Your disappointments are automatically excused. You essentially start the race at least half a lap ahead of a woman.

          So don’t pretend that your individual problems are anything like having systemic and institutional discrimination against you because you are male. Being male has nothing to do with your setbacks, but being female very often is a factor in theirs.

          • “That is the bonus you get just for being male. You are the default. Your achievements are automatically valued. Your disappointments are automatically excused. You essentially start the race at least half a lap ahead of a woman.”

            You really believe that? Be a male with kids and see how far you get. Men get heavy praise and respect in the business world, women get heavy praise and respect in the childcare world.

            “When you fail, it’s bad luck, a tough situation, or just in the wrong place at the wrong time. ”
            When you fail it’s because you fail at being a man, if you don’t earn as much as your wife then you fail. Women are consistently treated with hypoagency in media whilst men are treated with hyperagency. It’s proven that men get longer sentences for crime, they’re treated as more responsible. Women are given far greater protection in society than men. In many countries it is illegal to circumcise females but completely legal to circumcise infant boys.

            Discrimination against boys and men happens regularly, try be a male in a job with children for instance. My father was far far more worried about accusations of pedophilia as a teacher than my mother was as a teacher.

            • Hi Archy
              “”"”"In many countries it is illegal to circumcise females but completely legal to circumcise infant boys.”"”"
              I follow the debate in my own country about circumcision of baby boys. I read the newspaper articles and follow online debate. Practically all voices that support circumcision are male voices. They are Jewish men and a few Muslims. Mainly the Jewish men fight wildly and say we know kick them out of Europe for a second time, And even if Jewish religious leaders now say circumcision is no longer needed as a covenant with God for Jews, if we now know this is harmful . And we know it is harmful.
              I read day after day how MEN fight, with the Bible in their hand , for the right to circumcise their sons.
              If I had a vote to decide I would make male circumcision illegal.

            • Hi Archy

              You write:
              “”"You really believe that? Be a male with kids and see how far you get. Men get heavy praise and respect in the business world, women get heavy praise and respect in the childcare world.”"”"
              Is that the fact in the Australian society in 2013?
              Are there no pressure on women to go out and have paid jobs even if they have tiny newborn children at home?
              In my country the stay at home mothers speak up and say they feel bullied and pressured out from the home and into the paid work. Even the last prime minister ( a male feminist) was open about why the government do want they can to push women out of the home and back to “work” soon after the birth of a child. It is because this country need all the hands it can get, we need women into the work force for economic growth.

              If Australian society in 2013 has absolutely no pressure on women to take part in the work force, but praise them for being stay at home mothers for long periods of time, then that is interesting news .
              Women praised for being stay at home mothers and wife’s in 2013? Hmmmmmm?
              Are you 100% sure you are up to date now Archy,about how it is to be a stay at home mother in Australia 2013?

          • Being to a higher standard which calls being expected to care about and take responsibilities for the troubles that women face (which I have no problem with) but when I bring up my own I’m told they are my own fault (which of course is a problem).

            You do realize that you are conceeding that women as a group face certain troubles, but you want your very individualized problems to be treated with equal weight? As in, your individual difficulties should be considered the equal of what tens or hundreds of thousands of women experience on a daily basis.

            Does that sound right to you? Would you expect an entire supermarket to shut down all transactions for the day until your groceries are cashiered and taken to your car?

            If you have been discriminated against, by all means, contact the proper agency. No one is denying you that right, nor that you are somehow less of a person because you do so. But you will have a very difficult time demonstrating you were discriminated against because you belong to a specific class called “men”. That is what women face every day; even before they have a chance to show they are competent or incompetent, they are already categorized as a secondary concern. You don’t face that. You won’t EVER face that. And super double you won’t EVER EVER face that if you are caucasian or reasonably pass as caucasian.

            When you suceed, it’s because you are smart, talented, driven, or whatever. When you fail, it’s bad luck, a tough situation, or just in the wrong place at the wrong time. When a woman suceeds, it was ‘sleeping her way to the top’, simply luck, or occasionally (and grudgingly) that she has some small skill. When a woman fails, it is expected, it is because women just aren’t good at whatever task is at hand, or because she should know her place, and often because the deck was stacked against her.
            Hi Steven H.
            This is so well ,said that it deserves to be repeated again and again and again and again…..
            “”"That is the bonus you get just for being male. You are the default. Your achievements are automatically valued. Your disappointments are automatically excused. You essentially start the race at least half a lap ahead of a woman.

            So don’t pretend that your individual problems are anything like having systemic and institutional discrimination against you because you are male. Being male has nothing to do with your setbacks, but being female very often is a factor in theirs.”"”

  14. Typo or technical trouble ?
    Something messed up what I tried to cut and paste in here

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