BDMS is difficult to explain to a vanilla person (vanilla = anyone not into BDSM) because it is a multi leveled community. There are so many different aspects to it, so many communities within a community and so many subcategories within a category it would take me years to scratch the surface of explaining it to you. To do so in a small comment is impossible. How do I explain all of the U.S. in 200 words? I can’t. When you ask about “Control” are you referring to TPE? Or in regular English “Total Power Exchange” and we don’t use… Read more »
Thanks for taking the time to explain things. When I mentioned control, I meant the psychological state that goes with feeling like you have a significant influence over the course of events.
We are using different vocabulary and that is the problem here. BDSM uses a different vocabulary to set itself apart from the nilla world. When you say “Control” that word is not really use that much in the BDSM community. We use the word “POWER!”. As I said we say TPE which is Total Power Exchange. You exchange your power with mine. It is a swap. You give up your power and I take it from you. This is how the exchange takes place. It is willingly given. It is freely given. It is happily given. It is beggingly given.… Read more »
I just wanted to let you know that I thought you did such a good job of explaining that I made a digital copy in Word 2010. Since I plan to become a LCSW and serve the community it helps to have good pieces that are from other people. I agree 100% with what you’re saying because I’ve been to a number of local meetings and know some couples that have D/s relationships. One of whom Master Pam is a lesbian poly and no when you meet her you would never call her Mistress. I love human diversity and I… Read more »
I think there is something that is missing in the gender discourse on objectification. Do people like being treated this way? We always say, objectification reduces people to mere objects of desire, and that is a terrible thing. but we never ask ourselves, what if people like being objects of desire? and more importantly, do these pictures really say that that’s all we are? is it possible to agree that each picture is merely a snapshot into the person’s life? Such that the picture with Jennifer Lopez could be one moment when she took over but the whole experience (let’s… Read more »
That Guy.
Ref sitcoms. We need a better class of audience. People who think this stuff is funny are emotionally scarred, damaged and not fit for human companionship. Your basic sitcom audience, iow.
Great to show both sides. To me submission has little to do with gender. It’s fun when either sex submits. I like to be dominant mainly with ultra masculine alpha male men. I love to be dominated by men who don’t seem like they would; the passive, shy and quiet types for example. I think its just about arousal as you mentioned. I think it takes a lot of courage and trust to submit to someone whether you are a man or woman.
Guest
That Guy
12 years ago
I think American society has become more sensitive to images that suggest violence against women, as well it should, but has not developed the same sensitivity to images that suggest violence against men. Visuals of men getting knocked around are still so acceptable that they’re still a key part of physical comedy, for example, in ways that violence against women has never been. Think about all the times on America’s Funniest Videos when the most hilarious moment is when a man or boy is hit in the groin accidentally, or racks himself accidentally when trying to do something else. Hilarious,… Read more »
I think American society has become more sensitive to images that suggest violence against women, as well it should, but has not developed the same sensitivity to images that suggest violence against men. Visuals of men getting knocked around are still so acceptable that they’re still a key part of physical comedy, for example, in ways that violence against women has never been. Yes and I think its time to challenge the often quoted “reason” for this double standard. Its said that this is the case because male against female violence happens so much more than female against male violence.… Read more »
Yes and I think its time to challenge the often quoted “reason” for this double standard. Its said that this is the case because male against female violence happens so much more than female against male violence.” This is actually a fallacy, but it is widely believed expressly because female on male violence is praised, glorified, or considered comedy. When has there ever, ever, ever been a featured anything anywhere in the mainstream media that ever acknowledged that the thousands of TV scenes of women punching, kicking, beating up, shooting (or whatever else) a man is even remotely problematic. Ever.… Read more »
Another great and timely example: the March Issue of GQ with Paul Rudd and Jennifer Aniston on the cover. In their photo spread, there’s a full page image, shot—no shocker—by Terry Richardson, of Aniston kneeing Rudd in the crotch.
What you described is why anti-domestic violence advocates who claim to be gender neutral (equal concern regardless pf the victim’s gender) are simply lying. They should just be honest for once and admit that they are (rightly) anti-DV of a woman is the victim (as they should be) and pro-DV if a man is the victim. Their bias is evident anyway.
And if the groin shot is just inherently funny, then why is it you never see men on TV striking each other in the groin? It’s usually an accident or a woman doing it on purpose.
When a female hits a man in the crotch on purpose this is what is called CBT in BDSM (Cock and Ball Torture) and it is something men ask a Mistress for. “Mistress, please give me CBT!” said with a wailing moan and a begging grovel. Something people outside of L.A. do not realize until the Matrix director outted the local community is that the local scene is heavy with Hollywood film director, producer, screenwriters, actors, executives and I could name names that would shock you, but I won’t. I don’t out people. If you active on the scene you… Read more »
I hadn’t thought of it that way, but it makes sense that Hollywood/TV network writers might be incorporating their own personal kinks into their scripts. I have no doubt that happens sometimes. But, I suspect there is something more to it than that. I doubt giving a suggestion of CBT on the TV screen is the major goal of showing so many strikes to the groin. (And you won’t see it as consensual play on screen, more like a surprise attack.) Plenty of people find that sexually titillating, but I’m guessing the main reason is humor at a man being… Read more »
I’ve been saying this all along…Marketing anything from yogurt to cars is about empowering women at the expense of masculinity. Make a woman feel that she can stomp all over men by buying a brand of deodorant (it’s for women, you dumbass…dates back to the 80s I think) to yogurt (why is that idiot looking in the fridge for cake?…within the past year or two) and you have a sale.
Guest
That Guy
12 years ago
The growing popularity of BDSM is a very good point to make. In the shoe ads there is probably an inside reference to men with shoe fetishes. (High heel fetishes are of course not the same thing as BDSM, but they seem to be related – not too many dominatrix outfits with tennis shoes or pumps….) I saw a humorous greeting car the other day, presumably a card that a woman would buy another woman who’s going through a rough time. On it, there are two cartoon alligators talking. One of the two is holding a suitcase and saying to… Read more »
Artemis.
I don’t know what Axe smells like. The big-box knockoff of Aqua Velva is my choice. I was referring to the ads. Here’s this…smell, whatever it is, reversing female hypergamy. How likely is that?
Is Old Spice the one with the shirtless guy? Wonder if it was men buying it or women buying it for their SO.
Dom. There isn’t much in this world whose competition is beyond hope. If I didn’t like an ad, or anything else, I’d be gone. Wouldn’t likely suffer, either. Axe is so stupid I wouldn’t buy it no matter what. Working a youth group a couple of years ago, a thirteen year old girl was telling me about a school camp trip. She’d doused a couple of guys’ bunks with Axe and was surprised at their annoyance. She wondered what Axe was all about. It’s for guys who don’t think they have a chance with women, I told her. I used… Read more »
So I didn’t think I would ever agree with you on anything, but I found it. We both think Axe is stupid! Yay! (really, I am quite excited to find something to agree on)
It also smells absolutely horrible. Boys in my high school would spray Axe in the hallways and it always made the hallways reek – they knew everyone hated it, I don’t think anyone actually wore the stuff, they just sprayed it to tick everyone off.
Axe is so stupid I wouldn’t buy it no matter what. Working a youth group a couple of years ago, a thirteen year old girl was telling me about a school camp trip. She’d doused a couple of guys’ bunks with Axe and was surprised at their annoyance. She wondered what Axe was all about. It’s for guys who don’t think they have a chance with women, I told her. ARRRRHHHHHHH! Axe ignites a firey hatred in my soul that surpasses even the Power Cosmic. Telling guys, “Hey if you want to have a chance with women you need to… Read more »
Its what I call “Guilt Marketing”. I’ve seen not only men put in submissive roles, but whites. In a recent series of commercials on afternoon television. I saw no less than 10 advertisements where the white person or man was the “goof” or the “uninformed” individual in the commercial. There is a Gerber Life ad that seems to run quite often were the black couple is more informed than several white couples. I could list several of these. However, in the greater context, I see this “Guilt Marketing” as fear of using women or minorities as lackeys in advertisements. I… Read more »
Presumably, the ad folks know their audience and manage to appeal to the audience at a rate better than random. Presuming that, we can deduce that the audience likes that stuff, or responds positively if positively is defined as increased likelihood to purchase. So let’s ask the women in the audience if they have a problem with that crap. If they did, there would be a negative result on sales, which would likely come to the attention of the seller who might connect it to the ad. Not happening? (Looks around. Ummm. Nope.) So the ad folks are in the… Read more »
Or maybe they just like the product… If toilet paper was advertised through rapey, violent ads with which I disagree, would I stop buying toiler paper? Uh, no. By your logic, you could argue that men like the sexist, rapey, violent ads depicting women for alcohol, cars, clothing, razors, etc. does this mean that all men who buy these things want to see women in this way? Sometimes, yes. Sex sells. But you cants say this about all men.
That’s the first comment in this thread that I’m gonna have to call out for being poorly thought through. Advertising matters. Take for instance the Old Spice “Smell Like a Man, Man” campaign that started in January 2010. At the time, Old Spice was getting elbowed out of the market by Axe and other body products. The ads gained more than 160 million YouTube hits, and year-over-year product sales doubled.
Are you really saying that if the brand of toilet paper you used were to produce horrible ads, you wouldn’t even think about switching?
“Presumably, the ad folks know their audience and manage to appeal to the audience at a rate better than random.” I don’t know, there have been studies that show that advertisements that use sexual imagery actually prompt less brand-remembrance among viewers than those advertisements that don’t use sexual imagery. Apparently it gets people’s attention, but then they forget about it. Maybe it’s because sexual imagery is pretty ubiquitous, it’s not unique anymore. “Take for instance the Old Spice “Smell Like a Man, Man” campaign that started in January 2010.” Sorry if this is confusing, just thought I would respond to… Read more »
Have you seen those antacid ads where phallic food slaps men in the face? No women in these, just men being dominated by their diet, and the solution: a tablet.
That Tums commercial is all-the-way absurd, Justin. It’s hard to imagine businesspeople sitting around a board table, nodding, going, Yes, this is just what we wanted. The limp rubber rib smacking him in the face. Perfecto.
Guest
Eric M.
12 years ago
Men being abused and victims of violence a the hands of women continues to be considered deserved, justified, glorified, and/or comedic entertainment. As evidence, when’s the last time it was condemned when death (or possibly dismemberment) did not occur?
Have you read ANY of the comments Eric, or looked at my links? This particular glorified and comedic entertainment in the media (advertising here) goes both ways. It’s much more of an issue of human bodies being used as props for selling goods based on raising the emotional arousal level of the viewer.
Yes, I have but it primarily goes one way. In general, it goes one way almost exclusively. Please tell me that you recognize the gross double standard as regards tolerance of violence against men vs. against women.
Eric, you should also check out genderads.com. It’s a project looking at the representation of men and women in advertising, particularly objectification and violence towards and by men and women. It is very interesting.
It is noteworthy is that there have been countless hundreds or more likely thousands of scenes of women and girls kicking, punching, shoving, beating up, knocking out me and boys, many with laughtracks. Thousands. When has the does the domestic violence community ever objected to that? NEVER. Not a single time. Where does genderads object to it? It doesn’t. At all.
We all know what movement is behind these organizations. They rightly disapprove of all violence against women. However, this evidence shows that they clealry approve of violence against men at the hands of a woman.
Actually, genderads does have a section on violence done to men and if you compare it to the section on violence against women, it shows exactly what you’re saying. And what I said earlier up. Violence against women (except for one ad) is either implied or inferred; Violence against men is, what’s hilarious is that genderads doesn’t even seem to notice the immediacy of the violence against men, it states: It is interesting to note that there is little explicit violence committed against men. Say what? Almost all the violence in those ads committed against men is _shown!_ (Or they’re… Read more »
Guest
Artemis
12 years ago
I find it sad that sexualized images of violence and domination of women have been taking place in advertising for years, but it’s not until men become those objects that men finally notice.
I know that sounds judgmental, but I don’t mean it to. I just mean that I’m sad.
I guarantee the number of men who care about and are concerned by exploitative depictions of women in media far eclipse those who care about exploitative depictions of men in media.
And exploitative depictions of men in media have existed as long as exploitative depictions of women in media.
I mean, why not apply the same level of moral agency to women in this situation?
Why aren’t women speaking out about exploitative depictions of men in the media in significant numbers? Why did it take a man pointing out the exploitation of men in the media before women took notice and stopped assuming it doesn’t exist?
Do women have equal responsibility to protect men as men, apparently, have to protect women?
Appreciate that view, Typhon. I also checked into that Meisel editorial we were discussing. You were right. It was a commentary on the war on terror and was published around the fifth anniversary of 9/11. Meisel is a brilliant photographer, and the fact that publications like Vogue give him the chance to express his political beliefs is a testament to that. It is tricky, however, when people separate those images and take them out of context.
“For god’s sake can we stop _shaming_ men?” …. I wasn’t? I don’t find it strange that men didn’t really notice, until it happens to you, you’re not going to notice it. I didn’t really notice racism in our society until I started to become involved in gender studies and people pointed it out to me. Otherwise I would never notice. And the women who are upset about the violent and objectifying representations of women in advertising and media are just as upset about the objectifying representations of men and of racial minorities. I think you would be interested in… Read more »
“And the women who are upset about the violent and objectifying representations of women in advertising and media are just as upset about the objectifying representations of men and of racial minorities.” You aren’t as upset if you’re essentially saying ‘they’re less important.’ “this is the first time I have heard non-feminist men also discuss it. And the focus is solely on the exploitation of men, with a general acknowledgment of how women have traditionally been the ones exploited in this way.” So the author acknowledges that women have been ‘traditionally exploited in this way’ but what’s upsetting you is… Read more »
A recent show I watched illustrated this scenario perfectly. It was from the series ‘Cowboys and Outlaws’ and it was about the lynching of two homesteaders by a cattle baron. One of the homesteaders was a woman. Throughout the show it was emphasized that violence against her was far more unusual then violence against her male partner. Where this trope becomes extremely evident is that despite the fact that the focus was definitely on her throughout the ‘creating compassion and drama’ scenes (and not her equally victimized male partner) and we had a scene where she showed fear and horror… Read more »
Typhon I have never looked at a naked ad of a woman and had my compassion inspired. Usually my response is, “Great! Another ad that tells women how they should look to be worthy to be seen.” And then I think about how many times I did or didn’t go to the gym that week. And I doubt most men that looked at a naked ad of a pretty woman where feeling much compassion either. This excludes ads that are exceedingly violent. The violence is what invokes the compassion maybe, not the nakedness. Maybe people do feel more compassion to… Read more »
As to the compassion thing? I have this untested theory that its because our schooling and upbringing of kids isn’t heavy on empathy training. So groups feel pretty dandy about objectification until it’s them. Then they feel the badness and get upset. But because it didn’t affect them first off (when it was women or any other group) and they weren’t asked or expected to exercise empathy, they didn’t.
I find it sad that sexualized images of violence and domination of women have been taking place in advertising for years, but it’s not until men become those objects that men finally notice. I know that sounds judgmental, but I don’t mean it to. I just mean that I’m sad. That that I’m tempted to say: About as sad as people who talk about the depictions of women did so while actively denying the depictions of men in advertising or acknowleging (not just not talking about, but actively denying that it happens) or acknowledging depictions of men but almost always… Read more »
Guest
Erin
12 years ago
I think the most disturbing image to me is the Jimmy Choo one where the woman is stepping on the guys head and he is under the table and he has this awful dead-like look in his eyes. I also do not like the other images of women’s shoes to men’s heads at all. They really turn me off. The image in number 2 doesn’t look particular to domination. Yes, the girl is on the man’s back but the man doesn’t look particularly emasculated or submissive. I’m not saying it’s a great ad but I’m not sure the man is… Read more »
Thank you for posting these and continuing the conversation. The slide show did not sync exactly with the text. I’ve laid the pictures out with commentary on my blog to better represent the connections:
Ben – in the context of the other pictures, I can see how yes, the man is being used as a prop to sell the product. I am in disagreement witn you over the Dakota Fanning shot. She’s got this big bottle of perfume between her legs with the top of it being a flower. Media has a long standing history of sexualizing young women (underage women often) and putting a stamp of approval on the “de-flowering” of virgins. The ad is suggestive. But I do agree with you that it’s all our fault and responsbility. What we pay attention… Read more »
Really well said, Erin. And point taken about the Fanning shot. If you, as a consumer, see it as suggestive, then it’s suggestive. That’s what’s so complex about this issue.
And in relation to Artimis’s point, there are many men who saw the objectification of women as wrong before there was a large number of ads in which men were objectified. But I liked the idea of writing from this perspective as a way to move things forward for both genders. Progress relies on awareness.
Took a look at all of those ads, Erin. And yeah, they just seem careless, as if the models and photographer got together and just improved stuff and someone said, Yeah, how ’bout we put her in the trunk and kinda make it look like he’s digging a grave? It seems strange that ads like that make it through so many corporate sign-offs without someone being like, Wait a minute. What are we doing?
BDSM has been gaining cultural acceptance in recent years. Simply sexual images is so commonplace now that it takes something more to be notice. Advertisers are quick to move to the new new thing. Most of the “men being dominated” pictures you show, as well as others I’ve seen, are playful, sexual. Classic BDSM imagery. The ones featuring women being dominated are, I think, often more borderline – bordering on actual violence or rape. BDSM or “sexual play with dominance” is not abuse, or violence. In general, I don’t see these adverts condoning violence against men. Rather. they try to… Read more »
That’s interesting—and not something I would’ve ever thought about. To be honest, I had to Google what “BDSM” was. Personally, I don’t really have any interest in being bound or knocked around. Just not my thing. And perhaps I’m sheltered in not being aware of that. Once again, thanks for shedding some light this.
“Being bound and knocked around” is NOT what BDSM is about. As a sexuality researcher, I, am my research participants, get very upset with this ignorance. It implies that the “dominated one” is being abused or, well, dominated for the pleasure of the one in “power”. In reality, the one being “dominated” is the one in control. They call the shots.
I appreciate the clarification. As I mentioned in an earlier comment, I had to look up what BDSM meant, and I hold no claim to knowing what it’s all about. To continue the conversation, I’d say that it would be a very tricky assumption for advertisers assume their target demographic was aware of, and interested in, BDSM.
I agree with the last statement about the unaware audience. Even in the classes and events I’ve attended, participants still cast judgments on those who have fetishes, partake in BDSM, and basically any non tradition form of heterosexual sex. But even when people get informed about this forms of sexuality, their language also reflects their opinions, which are often negative, about the issue. Limiting BDSM to being bound and knocked around just conveys a judgment. As for this in relation to the ads, I agree with you Julie. And while both sexes are sexualized, I don’t think anyone should try… Read more »
You’re right on both counts. I was lazy with my language when responding to Lars—in part because of my lack of knowledge and in part because the conversation the piece spawned was so different than the conversation I expected. What I expected was more in line with the second paragraph of your last comment, that objectification and abuse is becoming more universal and that a possible result is that all people gain an greater awareness and sense of compassion for what gets expressed.
I figured your point was to show that abuse in ads is not acceptable for any sex. And I think everyone does need to pay ore attention to ads like these. I think a problem with women being the dominate ones in ads tells women and girls that they can (literally in that one ad) step on the men so they can get their money, the latest fashions, etc. This is negative for both sexes, but for the women, it reinofrces this negative stereotype that women are to be lusted after for material and sexualized reasons, and that women don’t… Read more »
One possibility missed in all this is that BDSM is becoming incseasingly popular with women, at least from a vouioristic standpiont. An article in the ‘New York Post on 2/28 talks about a triology oe books called ’50 Shades of Gray’ that in it’s short time out has sold over 100,000 copies (90% on Kindel) Print editions are sold out on Amazon and go for uup to 299.00 on auction sites. The writing is “A little lame” according to one fan, but it’s described as 1200 pages of “Graphicly described BDSM sexual exploits”. Women (all ages) can’t seem to get… Read more »
I agree, You have the Topping from the Bottom that goes on all the time. Also, the top is usually very concerned with the bottoms well-fare. In fact, the perenial advice to newbies is know who you are playing with. This is an effort by the community to weed out dangerous players. Put simply, you don’t play by the rules YOU DON”T PLAY PERIOD. Being shunned and excluded is considered a fate worse than death.
Being a top is much more work than being bottom. What the hell does a bottom have to other than show up? The top does all the work. Bottoms have it easy. They are pampered pooches.
Yeah, the thing in Nilla people think bottoms/submissive/subs have it bad and they would never want to be one. They do not understand the care and caution that goes into *taking care of* the sub. The sub is in fact catered to. At first glance it looks the Top/Dom/Domme/Mistress is catered to, but if you look at it closely that is not really true. The sub/submissive/bottom MUST be taken care or it all falls apart. If my sub screams too loudly and the Beverly Hills Police Department shows up I go to jail. The cops do not look kindly on… Read more »
Julie, from what I’m reading, BDSM is really “gaining traction” with women of all ages . The “Kink” site you mentioned estimates over 40% of it’s traffic to be female. There’s an article in the’New York Post’ on 2/28 abouy this triology of books’50 Shades of Gray’ that’s sold over 100’000 copies in just a short time(it’s on the NYT bestseller list). Even though it’s fans describe the writing as “A little lame”, it’s also described as “Mommy Porn” or “1200 pages of graphicly described BDSM sexual adventures”. Since these ad execs always try to cash in on “Pop Culture”… Read more »
In these posts words like “dominance” and “submissiveness” have been used a great deal, but no one has used the word “control,” which involves a different mind-set. Would anyone want to weigh in on the psychology that goes along with all this?
Maybe you can elaborate more Ben. I’m not sure I follow.
Although I usually think words like “dominance” and “submissiveness” allude to the way someone chooses to act and “control” sounds more like someone’s choices are being taken away. Although clearly “dominance” is about some forms of “control”.
Dominance (can be male or female) means the role you play. You are the “Top” as in you top the person. You are the top dog, the alpha dog, the leader of the pack, you call the shots in the relationship. The name is really clear. You dominate the sub or the bottom. submissive AKA: sub or subbie (can be male or female) = you submit to the Dom (male) Domme (female) Mistress (female) Top (male or female). AKA: bottom. This person is dominated by the Top. We don’t use the word control. We use the word power. We use… Read more »
Well, “being knocked about” is not how it feels to me. It’s certainly not the point. Playing with power (in many different ways) turns out to be highly erotic to some. One aspect of these adds is to appeal to this type of eroticism. The fact that BDSM has an air of darkness, the forbidden, helps create the allure that marketing likes. It’s worth noting the these adds rarely deal with the S/M aspects (the “knocking about” if you will). It’s much more the dominance, power play, and possibly bondage that appeals to marketers. Marketers use these elements to create… Read more »
I completely agree. In addition, when women are seen “in power” in these ads, they are still sexualized. As in the shoe on head ad, the woman has “power” because she is being ultra feminine. We never see “masculine women” or “real” lesbians in ads, especially those depicting power, because women need to be feminine to have any sort of power. Also in that shoe ad, the man is laughing. When women are being dominated in ads, they do not look happy at all. They are silent and usually have a scared, submissive look, or a very sexual look with… Read more »
I agree, women in advertising whether dominant or submissive are always presented as sexually alluring. Nor do I think it is particularly healthy for the switch to men as submissives either – ad-execs laughing all the way to the bank, men are not at all submissive in real world power.
Of course, if we were not so hung up on sexuality as being somehow ‘naughty’ and if men and women held equal power, if, if, if…
I believe that in order to be a sucessfull “Ad Exec” you must rid yourself of of your very soul and become amoral. These people would sell you heroin cut with rat poision if they could ; a) legally get away with it, b)make a shitload of money doing it. (maybe that order should be reversed)
I agree. These ads use BDSM imagery as a tool, in much the same way they treat women as tools, to their own ends. Furthermore, produced by traditional marketing companies, they still very much make use of hyper-sexual women to sell. In most of these images, it’s still the woman who’s the sexual object; having her act as a domina or be seen to dominate men is simply another way to portray the woman as sexually attractive; it’s an element of her hotness. And, of course, as anyone who have been in BDSM (or specifically, D/s) play can attest, “being… Read more »
In most dramatic situations, there is an agent that acts and an agent that is acted upon. Without any more context than what a still image provides, one must believe that the agent that acts is in control and making a first decision that sets off a chain of events.
Sure – the situation portrayed in these images have the woman as the active one, the one with the initiative and the control. In a real situation that would be the case.
However, these are fictional sexual dominance situation. The images are constructed for you viewing pleasure, or to keep you a captive audience for the message. In most of the images, the focus point, the main sexual object in the image, is the woman. Not the man.
Yes, Lars, I completely agree. I have no real experience with BDSM, besides some light power playing, but reading enough Dan Savage has educated me on the difference between consensual BDSM and violence. “Most of the “men being dominated” pictures you show, as well as others I’ve seen, are playful, sexual. Classic BDSM imagery. The ones featuring women being dominated are, I think, often more borderline – bordering on actual violence or rape” This is completely true. Especially the one with Jennifer Lopez, that just looks like sexual imagery. yes she is being dominant, but that is not really so… Read more »
Lars, Very Great points! When I dominate men, it has to be playful. I love it when we burst out in laughter for example. That is why the BDSM community calls it play. I don’t mind being dominated either so long it is in a playful manner. Very few men dominate me the way I like so I am usually the top. Some men really miss the mark as you said and it becomes more about violence than play. That is when safety words come in. The dominating dynamics between the sexes is truly interesting. But just because I dominate… Read more »
Wasn’t ‘state of emergency’ supposed to be critical of Britain’s post-911 security measures? I think you can safely exclude photo series like that being inspired by the same cultural situation as the photo series the OP is looking at. These are images of subjugated and battered women used to highlight social ills because, as a species, we take notice when women are threatened. These images, on the other hand, are not about generating concern for the subjugated and dominated men. Instead I think they come from the same place, culturally, as the following image: http://www.weapons-universe.com/Swords/Greeks_and_Amazons_Battle-frieze.jpg Which is representative of the… Read more »
Typhon: Thanks for contributing. It’s a very valid view, and going into history to consider the various archetypes we as a culture have assimilated is important. I am not sure of Meisel’s original intention. I do know it came out in 2006 and appears on fashion blogs without any context at all. When you say “these images…are not about generating concern,” does that imply that right now the safety of men isn’t worthy of concern? That it’s just not that big of a deal? Or just that it was not something that occurred to the artists during their creation of… Read more »
The cage image is very interesting, Julie. Thanks for finding that. In part, I think these photographers feel the need to compete with film and other forms of media. Some, like Meisel, attempt to tell a story. But single still images are limited and can be taken out of context, especially as JPEGs get passed around the Web. Once again, thanks for the thought and input.
No problem. I love articles like this deconstructing advertising and, truth be told, I love the images as stories (even if I disagree with them). Food for thought.
Agreed, Julie. In my research I came across many photos in which women are dominated. One set in particular was an editorial called “State of Emergency,” by Steven Meisel, for Vogue Italia. Very rough. Perhaps creatives just feel a need to create drama, but I like to believe that sex and power and violence don’t have to go together.
Drama creates emotional arousal, yes? That’s why it’s used. Love, peace and gentleness don’t create enough emotional arousal? I suppose that’s how politics works too. War, not peace.
The shoe ad is fascinating, especially in relation to the Chinese custom of foot-binding. In regard to the drama-arousal connection, it almost seems like a cheap trick. There are so many other ways to affect an audience.
BDMS is difficult to explain to a vanilla person (vanilla = anyone not into BDSM) because it is a multi leveled community. There are so many different aspects to it, so many communities within a community and so many subcategories within a category it would take me years to scratch the surface of explaining it to you. To do so in a small comment is impossible. How do I explain all of the U.S. in 200 words? I can’t. When you ask about “Control” are you referring to TPE? Or in regular English “Total Power Exchange” and we don’t use… Read more »
Anja:
Thanks for taking the time to explain things. When I mentioned control, I meant the psychological state that goes with feeling like you have a significant influence over the course of events.
Once again, thanks.
We are using different vocabulary and that is the problem here. BDSM uses a different vocabulary to set itself apart from the nilla world. When you say “Control” that word is not really use that much in the BDSM community. We use the word “POWER!”. As I said we say TPE which is Total Power Exchange. You exchange your power with mine. It is a swap. You give up your power and I take it from you. This is how the exchange takes place. It is willingly given. It is freely given. It is happily given. It is beggingly given.… Read more »
I just wanted to let you know that I thought you did such a good job of explaining that I made a digital copy in Word 2010. Since I plan to become a LCSW and serve the community it helps to have good pieces that are from other people. I agree 100% with what you’re saying because I’ve been to a number of local meetings and know some couples that have D/s relationships. One of whom Master Pam is a lesbian poly and no when you meet her you would never call her Mistress. I love human diversity and I… Read more »
Very cool! I wish you well.
I think there is something that is missing in the gender discourse on objectification. Do people like being treated this way? We always say, objectification reduces people to mere objects of desire, and that is a terrible thing. but we never ask ourselves, what if people like being objects of desire? and more importantly, do these pictures really say that that’s all we are? is it possible to agree that each picture is merely a snapshot into the person’s life? Such that the picture with Jennifer Lopez could be one moment when she took over but the whole experience (let’s… Read more »
That Guy.
Ref sitcoms. We need a better class of audience. People who think this stuff is funny are emotionally scarred, damaged and not fit for human companionship. Your basic sitcom audience, iow.
Julie,
Great to show both sides. To me submission has little to do with gender. It’s fun when either sex submits. I like to be dominant mainly with ultra masculine alpha male men. I love to be dominated by men who don’t seem like they would; the passive, shy and quiet types for example. I think its just about arousal as you mentioned. I think it takes a lot of courage and trust to submit to someone whether you are a man or woman.
I think American society has become more sensitive to images that suggest violence against women, as well it should, but has not developed the same sensitivity to images that suggest violence against men. Visuals of men getting knocked around are still so acceptable that they’re still a key part of physical comedy, for example, in ways that violence against women has never been. Think about all the times on America’s Funniest Videos when the most hilarious moment is when a man or boy is hit in the groin accidentally, or racks himself accidentally when trying to do something else. Hilarious,… Read more »
Great point about the gratuitous groin shot, as well as how it is viewed as a comeuppance.
I think American society has become more sensitive to images that suggest violence against women, as well it should, but has not developed the same sensitivity to images that suggest violence against men. Visuals of men getting knocked around are still so acceptable that they’re still a key part of physical comedy, for example, in ways that violence against women has never been. Yes and I think its time to challenge the often quoted “reason” for this double standard. Its said that this is the case because male against female violence happens so much more than female against male violence.… Read more »
Yes and I think its time to challenge the often quoted “reason” for this double standard. Its said that this is the case because male against female violence happens so much more than female against male violence.” This is actually a fallacy, but it is widely believed expressly because female on male violence is praised, glorified, or considered comedy. When has there ever, ever, ever been a featured anything anywhere in the mainstream media that ever acknowledged that the thousands of TV scenes of women punching, kicking, beating up, shooting (or whatever else) a man is even remotely problematic. Ever.… Read more »
Another great and timely example: the March Issue of GQ with Paul Rudd and Jennifer Aniston on the cover. In their photo spread, there’s a full page image, shot—no shocker—by Terry Richardson, of Aniston kneeing Rudd in the crotch.
When you start noticing it, it’s everywhere.
What you described is why anti-domestic violence advocates who claim to be gender neutral (equal concern regardless pf the victim’s gender) are simply lying. They should just be honest for once and admit that they are (rightly) anti-DV of a woman is the victim (as they should be) and pro-DV if a man is the victim. Their bias is evident anyway.
And if the groin shot is just inherently funny, then why is it you never see men on TV striking each other in the groin? It’s usually an accident or a woman doing it on purpose.
When a female hits a man in the crotch on purpose this is what is called CBT in BDSM (Cock and Ball Torture) and it is something men ask a Mistress for. “Mistress, please give me CBT!” said with a wailing moan and a begging grovel. Something people outside of L.A. do not realize until the Matrix director outted the local community is that the local scene is heavy with Hollywood film director, producer, screenwriters, actors, executives and I could name names that would shock you, but I won’t. I don’t out people. If you active on the scene you… Read more »
I hadn’t thought of it that way, but it makes sense that Hollywood/TV network writers might be incorporating their own personal kinks into their scripts. I have no doubt that happens sometimes. But, I suspect there is something more to it than that. I doubt giving a suggestion of CBT on the TV screen is the major goal of showing so many strikes to the groin. (And you won’t see it as consensual play on screen, more like a surprise attack.) Plenty of people find that sexually titillating, but I’m guessing the main reason is humor at a man being… Read more »
I’ve been saying this all along…Marketing anything from yogurt to cars is about empowering women at the expense of masculinity. Make a woman feel that she can stomp all over men by buying a brand of deodorant (it’s for women, you dumbass…dates back to the 80s I think) to yogurt (why is that idiot looking in the fridge for cake?…within the past year or two) and you have a sale.
The growing popularity of BDSM is a very good point to make. In the shoe ads there is probably an inside reference to men with shoe fetishes. (High heel fetishes are of course not the same thing as BDSM, but they seem to be related – not too many dominatrix outfits with tennis shoes or pumps….) I saw a humorous greeting car the other day, presumably a card that a woman would buy another woman who’s going through a rough time. On it, there are two cartoon alligators talking. One of the two is holding a suitcase and saying to… Read more »
Artemis.
I don’t know what Axe smells like. The big-box knockoff of Aqua Velva is my choice. I was referring to the ads. Here’s this…smell, whatever it is, reversing female hypergamy. How likely is that?
Is Old Spice the one with the shirtless guy? Wonder if it was men buying it or women buying it for their SO.
Dom. There isn’t much in this world whose competition is beyond hope. If I didn’t like an ad, or anything else, I’d be gone. Wouldn’t likely suffer, either. Axe is so stupid I wouldn’t buy it no matter what. Working a youth group a couple of years ago, a thirteen year old girl was telling me about a school camp trip. She’d doused a couple of guys’ bunks with Axe and was surprised at their annoyance. She wondered what Axe was all about. It’s for guys who don’t think they have a chance with women, I told her. I used… Read more »
So I didn’t think I would ever agree with you on anything, but I found it. We both think Axe is stupid! Yay! (really, I am quite excited to find something to agree on)
It also smells absolutely horrible. Boys in my high school would spray Axe in the hallways and it always made the hallways reek – they knew everyone hated it, I don’t think anyone actually wore the stuff, they just sprayed it to tick everyone off.
Axe is so stupid I wouldn’t buy it no matter what. Working a youth group a couple of years ago, a thirteen year old girl was telling me about a school camp trip. She’d doused a couple of guys’ bunks with Axe and was surprised at their annoyance. She wondered what Axe was all about. It’s for guys who don’t think they have a chance with women, I told her. ARRRRHHHHHHH! Axe ignites a firey hatred in my soul that surpasses even the Power Cosmic. Telling guys, “Hey if you want to have a chance with women you need to… Read more »
Its what I call “Guilt Marketing”. I’ve seen not only men put in submissive roles, but whites. In a recent series of commercials on afternoon television. I saw no less than 10 advertisements where the white person or man was the “goof” or the “uninformed” individual in the commercial. There is a Gerber Life ad that seems to run quite often were the black couple is more informed than several white couples. I could list several of these. However, in the greater context, I see this “Guilt Marketing” as fear of using women or minorities as lackeys in advertisements. I… Read more »
Presumably, the ad folks know their audience and manage to appeal to the audience at a rate better than random. Presuming that, we can deduce that the audience likes that stuff, or responds positively if positively is defined as increased likelihood to purchase. So let’s ask the women in the audience if they have a problem with that crap. If they did, there would be a negative result on sales, which would likely come to the attention of the seller who might connect it to the ad. Not happening? (Looks around. Ummm. Nope.) So the ad folks are in the… Read more »
I’ll give you an amen on that, Richard. And nice fiction, by the way.
Ben. Thanks. Kind of fun.
Credit where credit’s due. Lisa Hickey is a heck of an editor. If she were a dentist, you wouldn’t need novocaine.
Hah! Me, I just love sentences.
Thank you both.
Or maybe they just like the product… If toilet paper was advertised through rapey, violent ads with which I disagree, would I stop buying toiler paper? Uh, no. By your logic, you could argue that men like the sexist, rapey, violent ads depicting women for alcohol, cars, clothing, razors, etc. does this mean that all men who buy these things want to see women in this way? Sometimes, yes. Sex sells. But you cants say this about all men.
Dom:
That’s the first comment in this thread that I’m gonna have to call out for being poorly thought through. Advertising matters. Take for instance the Old Spice “Smell Like a Man, Man” campaign that started in January 2010. At the time, Old Spice was getting elbowed out of the market by Axe and other body products. The ads gained more than 160 million YouTube hits, and year-over-year product sales doubled.
Are you really saying that if the brand of toilet paper you used were to produce horrible ads, you wouldn’t even think about switching?
“Presumably, the ad folks know their audience and manage to appeal to the audience at a rate better than random.” I don’t know, there have been studies that show that advertisements that use sexual imagery actually prompt less brand-remembrance among viewers than those advertisements that don’t use sexual imagery. Apparently it gets people’s attention, but then they forget about it. Maybe it’s because sexual imagery is pretty ubiquitous, it’s not unique anymore. “Take for instance the Old Spice “Smell Like a Man, Man” campaign that started in January 2010.” Sorry if this is confusing, just thought I would respond to… Read more »
Have you seen those antacid ads where phallic food slaps men in the face? No women in these, just men being dominated by their diet, and the solution: a tablet.
I look for them, Justin. What is the name of the product?
Tums. Here’s one example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6pyYpQjjaI
That Tums commercial is all-the-way absurd, Justin. It’s hard to imagine businesspeople sitting around a board table, nodding, going, Yes, this is just what we wanted. The limp rubber rib smacking him in the face. Perfecto.
Men being abused and victims of violence a the hands of women continues to be considered deserved, justified, glorified, and/or comedic entertainment. As evidence, when’s the last time it was condemned when death (or possibly dismemberment) did not occur?
Hey Eric , even when death and possible dinmemberment do occur, it’s not universally condemed!
Have you read ANY of the comments Eric, or looked at my links? This particular glorified and comedic entertainment in the media (advertising here) goes both ways. It’s much more of an issue of human bodies being used as props for selling goods based on raising the emotional arousal level of the viewer.
Yes, I have but it primarily goes one way. In general, it goes one way almost exclusively. Please tell me that you recognize the gross double standard as regards tolerance of violence against men vs. against women.
Eric, you should also check out genderads.com. It’s a project looking at the representation of men and women in advertising, particularly objectification and violence towards and by men and women. It is very interesting.
It is noteworthy is that there have been countless hundreds or more likely thousands of scenes of women and girls kicking, punching, shoving, beating up, knocking out me and boys, many with laughtracks. Thousands. When has the does the domestic violence community ever objected to that? NEVER. Not a single time. Where does genderads object to it? It doesn’t. At all.
We all know what movement is behind these organizations. They rightly disapprove of all violence against women. However, this evidence shows that they clealry approve of violence against men at the hands of a woman.
Actually, genderads does have a section on violence done to men and if you compare it to the section on violence against women, it shows exactly what you’re saying. And what I said earlier up. Violence against women (except for one ad) is either implied or inferred; Violence against men is, what’s hilarious is that genderads doesn’t even seem to notice the immediacy of the violence against men, it states: It is interesting to note that there is little explicit violence committed against men. Say what? Almost all the violence in those ads committed against men is _shown!_ (Or they’re… Read more »
I find it sad that sexualized images of violence and domination of women have been taking place in advertising for years, but it’s not until men become those objects that men finally notice.
I know that sounds judgmental, but I don’t mean it to. I just mean that I’m sad.
I guarantee the number of men who care about and are concerned by exploitative depictions of women in media far eclipse those who care about exploitative depictions of men in media.
And exploitative depictions of men in media have existed as long as exploitative depictions of women in media.
For god’s sake can we stop _shaming_ men?
I mean, why not apply the same level of moral agency to women in this situation?
Why aren’t women speaking out about exploitative depictions of men in the media in significant numbers? Why did it take a man pointing out the exploitation of men in the media before women took notice and stopped assuming it doesn’t exist?
Do women have equal responsibility to protect men as men, apparently, have to protect women?
Appreciate that view, Typhon. I also checked into that Meisel editorial we were discussing. You were right. It was a commentary on the war on terror and was published around the fifth anniversary of 9/11. Meisel is a brilliant photographer, and the fact that publications like Vogue give him the chance to express his political beliefs is a testament to that. It is tricky, however, when people separate those images and take them out of context.
Once again, thanks. for contributing.
“For god’s sake can we stop _shaming_ men?” …. I wasn’t? I don’t find it strange that men didn’t really notice, until it happens to you, you’re not going to notice it. I didn’t really notice racism in our society until I started to become involved in gender studies and people pointed it out to me. Otherwise I would never notice. And the women who are upset about the violent and objectifying representations of women in advertising and media are just as upset about the objectifying representations of men and of racial minorities. I think you would be interested in… Read more »
“And the women who are upset about the violent and objectifying representations of women in advertising and media are just as upset about the objectifying representations of men and of racial minorities.” You aren’t as upset if you’re essentially saying ‘they’re less important.’ “this is the first time I have heard non-feminist men also discuss it. And the focus is solely on the exploitation of men, with a general acknowledgment of how women have traditionally been the ones exploited in this way.” So the author acknowledges that women have been ‘traditionally exploited in this way’ but what’s upsetting you is… Read more »
A recent show I watched illustrated this scenario perfectly. It was from the series ‘Cowboys and Outlaws’ and it was about the lynching of two homesteaders by a cattle baron. One of the homesteaders was a woman. Throughout the show it was emphasized that violence against her was far more unusual then violence against her male partner. Where this trope becomes extremely evident is that despite the fact that the focus was definitely on her throughout the ‘creating compassion and drama’ scenes (and not her equally victimized male partner) and we had a scene where she showed fear and horror… Read more »
Typhon I have never looked at a naked ad of a woman and had my compassion inspired. Usually my response is, “Great! Another ad that tells women how they should look to be worthy to be seen.” And then I think about how many times I did or didn’t go to the gym that week. And I doubt most men that looked at a naked ad of a pretty woman where feeling much compassion either. This excludes ads that are exceedingly violent. The violence is what invokes the compassion maybe, not the nakedness. Maybe people do feel more compassion to… Read more »
As to the compassion thing? I have this untested theory that its because our schooling and upbringing of kids isn’t heavy on empathy training. So groups feel pretty dandy about objectification until it’s them. Then they feel the badness and get upset. But because it didn’t affect them first off (when it was women or any other group) and they weren’t asked or expected to exercise empathy, they didn’t.
It may be a human trait to begin with.
I find it sad that sexualized images of violence and domination of women have been taking place in advertising for years, but it’s not until men become those objects that men finally notice. I know that sounds judgmental, but I don’t mean it to. I just mean that I’m sad. That that I’m tempted to say: About as sad as people who talk about the depictions of women did so while actively denying the depictions of men in advertising or acknowleging (not just not talking about, but actively denying that it happens) or acknowledging depictions of men but almost always… Read more »
I think the most disturbing image to me is the Jimmy Choo one where the woman is stepping on the guys head and he is under the table and he has this awful dead-like look in his eyes. I also do not like the other images of women’s shoes to men’s heads at all. They really turn me off. The image in number 2 doesn’t look particular to domination. Yes, the girl is on the man’s back but the man doesn’t look particularly emasculated or submissive. I’m not saying it’s a great ad but I’m not sure the man is… Read more »
Erin:
Thank you for posting these and continuing the conversation. The slide show did not sync exactly with the text. I’ve laid the pictures out with commentary on my blog to better represent the connections:
http://bencake.tumblr.com/post/18579781242/whats-with-all-the-ball-grabbing-head-stepping-and
Ben – in the context of the other pictures, I can see how yes, the man is being used as a prop to sell the product. I am in disagreement witn you over the Dakota Fanning shot. She’s got this big bottle of perfume between her legs with the top of it being a flower. Media has a long standing history of sexualizing young women (underage women often) and putting a stamp of approval on the “de-flowering” of virgins. The ad is suggestive. But I do agree with you that it’s all our fault and responsbility. What we pay attention… Read more »
Really well said, Erin. And point taken about the Fanning shot. If you, as a consumer, see it as suggestive, then it’s suggestive. That’s what’s so complex about this issue.
And in relation to Artimis’s point, there are many men who saw the objectification of women as wrong before there was a large number of ads in which men were objectified. But I liked the idea of writing from this perspective as a way to move things forward for both genders. Progress relies on awareness.
Thanks for your insight on this.
Took a look at all of those ads, Erin. And yeah, they just seem careless, as if the models and photographer got together and just improved stuff and someone said, Yeah, how ’bout we put her in the trunk and kinda make it look like he’s digging a grave? It seems strange that ads like that make it through so many corporate sign-offs without someone being like, Wait a minute. What are we doing?
Thanks again for your input.
Good points here. A nude woman grabbing the crotch of a fully clothed man? Hard to say one has all the advantage over the other.
BDSM has been gaining cultural acceptance in recent years. Simply sexual images is so commonplace now that it takes something more to be notice. Advertisers are quick to move to the new new thing. Most of the “men being dominated” pictures you show, as well as others I’ve seen, are playful, sexual. Classic BDSM imagery. The ones featuring women being dominated are, I think, often more borderline – bordering on actual violence or rape. BDSM or “sexual play with dominance” is not abuse, or violence. In general, I don’t see these adverts condoning violence against men. Rather. they try to… Read more »
Lars:
That’s interesting—and not something I would’ve ever thought about. To be honest, I had to Google what “BDSM” was. Personally, I don’t really have any interest in being bound or knocked around. Just not my thing. And perhaps I’m sheltered in not being aware of that. Once again, thanks for shedding some light this.
“Being bound and knocked around” is NOT what BDSM is about. As a sexuality researcher, I, am my research participants, get very upset with this ignorance. It implies that the “dominated one” is being abused or, well, dominated for the pleasure of the one in “power”. In reality, the one being “dominated” is the one in control. They call the shots.
Dom:
I appreciate the clarification. As I mentioned in an earlier comment, I had to look up what BDSM meant, and I hold no claim to knowing what it’s all about. To continue the conversation, I’d say that it would be a very tricky assumption for advertisers assume their target demographic was aware of, and interested in, BDSM.
I agree with the last statement about the unaware audience. Even in the classes and events I’ve attended, participants still cast judgments on those who have fetishes, partake in BDSM, and basically any non tradition form of heterosexual sex. But even when people get informed about this forms of sexuality, their language also reflects their opinions, which are often negative, about the issue. Limiting BDSM to being bound and knocked around just conveys a judgment. As for this in relation to the ads, I agree with you Julie. And while both sexes are sexualized, I don’t think anyone should try… Read more »
Also, google “violence against women ads” and compare it to the few images of “violence against men ads”.
Dom:
You’re right on both counts. I was lazy with my language when responding to Lars—in part because of my lack of knowledge and in part because the conversation the piece spawned was so different than the conversation I expected. What I expected was more in line with the second paragraph of your last comment, that objectification and abuse is becoming more universal and that a possible result is that all people gain an greater awareness and sense of compassion for what gets expressed.
I figured your point was to show that abuse in ads is not acceptable for any sex. And I think everyone does need to pay ore attention to ads like these. I think a problem with women being the dominate ones in ads tells women and girls that they can (literally in that one ad) step on the men so they can get their money, the latest fashions, etc. This is negative for both sexes, but for the women, it reinofrces this negative stereotype that women are to be lusted after for material and sexualized reasons, and that women don’t… Read more »
Thanks so much, Dom. You open up the conversation to a lot of very important issues that I hope get discussed more on the Good Men Project.
One possibility missed in all this is that BDSM is becoming incseasingly popular with women, at least from a vouioristic standpiont. An article in the ‘New York Post on 2/28 talks about a triology oe books called ’50 Shades of Gray’ that in it’s short time out has sold over 100,000 copies (90% on Kindel) Print editions are sold out on Amazon and go for uup to 299.00 on auction sites. The writing is “A little lame” according to one fan, but it’s described as 1200 pages of “Graphicly described BDSM sexual exploits”. Women (all ages) can’t seem to get… Read more »
I agree, You have the Topping from the Bottom that goes on all the time. Also, the top is usually very concerned with the bottoms well-fare. In fact, the perenial advice to newbies is know who you are playing with. This is an effort by the community to weed out dangerous players. Put simply, you don’t play by the rules YOU DON”T PLAY PERIOD. Being shunned and excluded is considered a fate worse than death.
Being a top is much more work than being bottom. What the hell does a bottom have to other than show up? The top does all the work. Bottoms have it easy. They are pampered pooches.
Of course we are 😉
Yeah, the thing in Nilla people think bottoms/submissive/subs have it bad and they would never want to be one. They do not understand the care and caution that goes into *taking care of* the sub. The sub is in fact catered to. At first glance it looks the Top/Dom/Domme/Mistress is catered to, but if you look at it closely that is not really true. The sub/submissive/bottom MUST be taken care or it all falls apart. If my sub screams too loudly and the Beverly Hills Police Department shows up I go to jail. The cops do not look kindly on… Read more »
Julie, from what I’m reading, BDSM is really “gaining traction” with women of all ages . The “Kink” site you mentioned estimates over 40% of it’s traffic to be female. There’s an article in the’New York Post’ on 2/28 abouy this triology of books’50 Shades of Gray’ that’s sold over 100’000 copies in just a short time(it’s on the NYT bestseller list). Even though it’s fans describe the writing as “A little lame”, it’s also described as “Mommy Porn” or “1200 pages of graphicly described BDSM sexual adventures”. Since these ad execs always try to cash in on “Pop Culture”… Read more »
In these posts words like “dominance” and “submissiveness” have been used a great deal, but no one has used the word “control,” which involves a different mind-set. Would anyone want to weigh in on the psychology that goes along with all this?
Maybe you can elaborate more Ben. I’m not sure I follow.
Although I usually think words like “dominance” and “submissiveness” allude to the way someone chooses to act and “control” sounds more like someone’s choices are being taken away. Although clearly “dominance” is about some forms of “control”.
Dominance (can be male or female) means the role you play. You are the “Top” as in you top the person. You are the top dog, the alpha dog, the leader of the pack, you call the shots in the relationship. The name is really clear. You dominate the sub or the bottom. submissive AKA: sub or subbie (can be male or female) = you submit to the Dom (male) Domme (female) Mistress (female) Top (male or female). AKA: bottom. This person is dominated by the Top. We don’t use the word control. We use the word power. We use… Read more »
Well, “being knocked about” is not how it feels to me. It’s certainly not the point. Playing with power (in many different ways) turns out to be highly erotic to some. One aspect of these adds is to appeal to this type of eroticism. The fact that BDSM has an air of darkness, the forbidden, helps create the allure that marketing likes. It’s worth noting the these adds rarely deal with the S/M aspects (the “knocking about” if you will). It’s much more the dominance, power play, and possibly bondage that appeals to marketers. Marketers use these elements to create… Read more »
Lars:
I’ll check out that video thank you for posting it. It was not my intention to marginalize you or the BDSM community.
I completely agree. In addition, when women are seen “in power” in these ads, they are still sexualized. As in the shoe on head ad, the woman has “power” because she is being ultra feminine. We never see “masculine women” or “real” lesbians in ads, especially those depicting power, because women need to be feminine to have any sort of power. Also in that shoe ad, the man is laughing. When women are being dominated in ads, they do not look happy at all. They are silent and usually have a scared, submissive look, or a very sexual look with… Read more »
I agree, women in advertising whether dominant or submissive are always presented as sexually alluring. Nor do I think it is particularly healthy for the switch to men as submissives either – ad-execs laughing all the way to the bank, men are not at all submissive in real world power.
Of course, if we were not so hung up on sexuality as being somehow ‘naughty’ and if men and women held equal power, if, if, if…
I believe that in order to be a sucessfull “Ad Exec” you must rid yourself of of your very soul and become amoral. These people would sell you heroin cut with rat poision if they could ; a) legally get away with it, b)make a shitload of money doing it. (maybe that order should be reversed)
I agree. These ads use BDSM imagery as a tool, in much the same way they treat women as tools, to their own ends. Furthermore, produced by traditional marketing companies, they still very much make use of hyper-sexual women to sell. In most of these images, it’s still the woman who’s the sexual object; having her act as a domina or be seen to dominate men is simply another way to portray the woman as sexually attractive; it’s an element of her hotness. And, of course, as anyone who have been in BDSM (or specifically, D/s) play can attest, “being… Read more »
In most dramatic situations, there is an agent that acts and an agent that is acted upon. Without any more context than what a still image provides, one must believe that the agent that acts is in control and making a first decision that sets off a chain of events.
Sure – the situation portrayed in these images have the woman as the active one, the one with the initiative and the control. In a real situation that would be the case.
However, these are fictional sexual dominance situation. The images are constructed for you viewing pleasure, or to keep you a captive audience for the message. In most of the images, the focus point, the main sexual object in the image, is the woman. Not the man.
Yes, Lars, I completely agree. I have no real experience with BDSM, besides some light power playing, but reading enough Dan Savage has educated me on the difference between consensual BDSM and violence. “Most of the “men being dominated” pictures you show, as well as others I’ve seen, are playful, sexual. Classic BDSM imagery. The ones featuring women being dominated are, I think, often more borderline – bordering on actual violence or rape” This is completely true. Especially the one with Jennifer Lopez, that just looks like sexual imagery. yes she is being dominant, but that is not really so… Read more »
Lars, Very Great points! When I dominate men, it has to be playful. I love it when we burst out in laughter for example. That is why the BDSM community calls it play. I don’t mind being dominated either so long it is in a playful manner. Very few men dominate me the way I like so I am usually the top. Some men really miss the mark as you said and it becomes more about violence than play. That is when safety words come in. The dominating dynamics between the sexes is truly interesting. But just because I dominate… Read more »
Wasn’t ‘state of emergency’ supposed to be critical of Britain’s post-911 security measures? I think you can safely exclude photo series like that being inspired by the same cultural situation as the photo series the OP is looking at. These are images of subjugated and battered women used to highlight social ills because, as a species, we take notice when women are threatened. These images, on the other hand, are not about generating concern for the subjugated and dominated men. Instead I think they come from the same place, culturally, as the following image: http://www.weapons-universe.com/Swords/Greeks_and_Amazons_Battle-frieze.jpg Which is representative of the… Read more »
Typhon: Thanks for contributing. It’s a very valid view, and going into history to consider the various archetypes we as a culture have assimilated is important. I am not sure of Meisel’s original intention. I do know it came out in 2006 and appears on fashion blogs without any context at all. When you say “these images…are not about generating concern,” does that imply that right now the safety of men isn’t worthy of concern? That it’s just not that big of a deal? Or just that it was not something that occurred to the artists during their creation of… Read more »
The cage image is very interesting, Julie. Thanks for finding that. In part, I think these photographers feel the need to compete with film and other forms of media. Some, like Meisel, attempt to tell a story. But single still images are limited and can be taken out of context, especially as JPEGs get passed around the Web. Once again, thanks for the thought and input.
No problem. I love articles like this deconstructing advertising and, truth be told, I love the images as stories (even if I disagree with them). Food for thought.
Agreed, Julie. In my research I came across many photos in which women are dominated. One set in particular was an editorial called “State of Emergency,” by Steven Meisel, for Vogue Italia. Very rough. Perhaps creatives just feel a need to create drama, but I like to believe that sex and power and violence don’t have to go together.
Drama creates emotional arousal, yes? That’s why it’s used. Love, peace and gentleness don’t create enough emotional arousal? I suppose that’s how politics works too. War, not peace.
The shoe ad is fascinating, especially in relation to the Chinese custom of foot-binding. In regard to the drama-arousal connection, it almost seems like a cheap trick. There are so many other ways to affect an audience.
It’s also a take on Shibari which is a Japanese BDSM rope bondage form. I’ll comment more on the BDSM connection above.