A woman hopes Eli and Josie can shed some light on why guys are so obsessed with her rear-end.
Originally appeared at She Said He Said
Dear Sexes: This might be totally silly, but what is it about women’s butts that is so attractive to men and makes them comment? I have a couple of outfits I no longer wear because of the comments men say. Thanks.
She Said: I don’t think it’s just about butts, depending on the girl and the guy, it can be about anything… I definitely have one v-neck tee shirt that is a conversation stopper. “Hey Jos, how are—-“[eyes go to chest, all talking stops for about a second and a half]. And therefore I don’t like wearing it without a big scarf or a tank under it. And it’s just a v-neck!
Ultimately, I think that unless you’re in an intimate relationship with someone, they should keep their comments to themselves when it comes to your parts, especially the sexualized ones. It’s Street Harassment, and it really is harassment. Some people think they have the right to say whatever they want just because they feel it, but they need to realize that words can be violations too.
Same goes for girls. I know guys who are really uncomfortable when girls say, “nice ass” or something like that out of nowhere. Then they feel they should be proud and it all gets very confusing. Fact is, no one likes feeling dehumanized. Liking someone’s ass and saying something to them about it is not the same as giving them a genuine compliment. It often makes them feel sexualized, like their only function is to be a sexual object. Guy or girl—it feels gross to most people.
Wear what you’re going to wear, and try to find a great retort for this type of attention. Something like, “I’d rather not talk about my ass if you don’t mind” or “Ever heard of Street Harassment?” or “Don’t be a creep.” Sure, some guys are going to object to being called a creep, but here’s a newsflash: If you’re a stranger commenting on a woman’s ass, you’re a creep. Back off.
He Said: First off, you should never let obnoxious cat-callers discourage you from wearing what you want to wear. Don’t expose all your ASSets, leave something to the imagination. But (within reason) don’t let others dictate who you are, or how you want to dress yourself. That’s called sexual harassment, and it should not be tolerated.
Now, let’s talk about butts. What’s not to like about about a nice gluteus maximus? Guys are aesthetic creatures, so the mere site of a sweet butt, can send us into excitement overdrive. A plump tush, parading past on the street, offers tantalizing excitement, of what might be. We immediately think of the possibilities. Perhaps we’ll get to touch that butt (or one like it) with our bare hands. Perhaps we’ll get to bite it. Maybe we’ll get to “explore” it. And who knows, that sweet butt might even have a banging body, attractive face, and a wonderful person attached to it.
Promises, promises! Guys are incredible optimists when it comes to a smokin’ rump. We’re also fairly savvy and experienced. We know that sometimes, a butt is just a butt – without all the sweet amenities attached. And don’t even get me started on dishonest pants. Sometimes pants lie to us, and no guy likes being lied to by a pair of pants, especially when it has to do with a sweet ass.
P.S. – There’s many men out there, thus all types of butts are appreciated by someone. Unless you’re planning on cutting off your own ass (we here at She Said He Said strongly discourage self-mutilation), or wearing baggy sweatpants the rest of your life, there will always be dudes commenting (aloud or to themselves) about the status and wonder of your butt. Bottoms up!
Do you have a question for Eli and Josie? Ask it here!
Image of zebra rear-ends courtesy of Shutterstock
About She Said He Said
Believe it or not ladies, there’s lots of things about you that can stop a man dead in his tracks. Yes, you are that sexy to us.
I remember being stopped stone cold frozen by a goddess in high school. All I saw was her face. I was 17. It doesn’t really change, and it can be anything, boobs, butts, faces, calves, hair. You name it, if it’s awesome enough, I will notice and promptly drive my car into a bridge abutment.
This video says it all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc_HZb33ZUs
Absolutely ridiculuous? I totally agree. 100% true? No doubt about it. Not one doubt at all!
The Wet One
Nature has a large part to play. It’s the attraction system, be thankful it exists or we wouldn’t. That doesn’t excuse street harassment however, just explains why many men love a woman’s body.
street harassment is a bad thing, and not only on the street. Harasment in general is bad and cruel.
But that doesent change that many men love a womans body (me included). Its beautyfull, and I cant come up with no logical explanation for it. Its purely instinctual, therefore its not rational.
Cutting off your own ass to spite your… what?
Funny column this week, you guys.
TMZ online is putting the focus on Sofia Vargas’ and Hayden Panettiere’s butts with (fill in the blank): “Dat azz is _____.”
I wish they would do equal time for the men…only fair!
(Actually I would just like to see Viggo Mortenson and Michael Fassbender both fully dressed and in costume! Not just the camera focused on their butts! ["Excuse me, Dr. Freud and Dr. Jung, we just need to get a close-up of your butts!"])….
Ladies, can you stop mentioning Viggo every other day? It seriously fuks with my world view to think that so many of you are obsessed with the sadistic master-chief from GI Jane. In fact, Viggo now lives in my head, constantly trying to revoke my man card and wash me out of the program. “Seek – life – else-where!”
Thankfully my view of Viggo is largely shaped by the Lord of the Rings movies. So instead of him, “constantly trying to revoke my man card and wash me out of the program”, I see him as a man that has to come to terms with his destiny (although I wish there was more focus on his struggle, for a man that was trying to get away from leading Gondor he was awfully gung ho about it).
Viggo Mortensen? the from Lord of the Rings, the road ect?
I’ve seen him in real life and I can tell you that he only exceeds expectations… And I’m the FURTHEST thing from a star-f**er.
On the other hand ladies, let’s reign it in, we’re on a men’s site
On the other hand ladies, let’s reign it in, we’re on a men’s site
You say that like that means we can’t talk about good looking guys or something…
Ummm. You fancy yourself further away than you are. Viggo is 53 and looks like this without the professional enhancements.
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1720694016/nm0001557
He is so awesome at any age…just a picture of any part of him (even his elbow) is so sexy!
Oh, I’m sorry….this is a man’s site…so let’s talk about Eva Longoria’s butt…or Kim Kardashian’s!
(You know, I’ve heard gay men rave about William Levy’s and Gilles Marini’s dancing butts!)
You’re creepy
How come no one’s complaining that this comment is heteronormative?
I’m sure there are men who find Viggo sexy and could relate to the ladies discussing him, even on a men’s site
who’s Viggo?
In my opinion, his GI Jane role is the one I like the least. I thought he was much better as an actor in Lord of the Rings, Eastern Promises, A History of Violence, and especially, A Walk On The Moon. He’s a very handsome man, and in a quirky “real person” way, not a typical Hollywood beefcake way. And he has nice eyes…I really notice nice eyes.
Guys, you might want to do what I do. If a woman of, uh, interest passes by and you feel compelled to do the old swivelhead move…count to six or seven before executing, ok?
Or, just glance and sear it into your memory to review later.
And don’t forget your peripheral vision.
Sounds like two different questions here:
Why do so many men find women’s butts so attractive?
Why do so many men find it acceptable to comment about women’s butts?
The first question is hard to explain completely to someone who is not attracted to women’s rear-ends. I’m not sure there really is a “why” explanation for being attracted to one thing over another, unless you want to be overly reductive about human evolution. I think this is yet one more case where if you’re not attracted to women then you will never fully understand someone who is. (And, of course, not all hetero men take notice of the same things.)
The second question suggests to me that the letter’s author is spending a lot of time in the company of very similar men. My first reaction is the standard “NAMALT.” Who are these men? Am I just really sheltered or out of touch with the rest of society? Is this really a daily occurrence for all women? Am I just some weirdo for never having commented to a stranger about her ass? Now I think I must have missed out on something.
Yeah, there are a LOT of men who feel fine commenting on body parts. Recently a guy said to me, “You’ve got the prettiest feet” and I was thinking, “That’s fucking weird” (he was a stranger) but I wasn’t horrified the I would’ve been if he said, “You’ve got the prettiest tits” or something like that. Yet, it was weird.
I think there are different “cultures” everywhere. When I was an idiot 18 year old we used to hang at this frat-house (as HS seniors, not college students) and the guys were constantly saying weird shit like that, just out of fucking nowhere. “Can I just touch those?” or just squeezing past you and grazing hands on your ass… It was a whole culture of that behavior being okay, and the group of us just went along with it. I wouldn’t say it was “frat boy culture” because there are a lot of different types of frats, but it was this one frat’s culture.
Does that make sense? One woman saying very genuinely to the right guy in that culture, “That really makes me feel weird, and I like you guys but I feel really dirty from how you guys are talking,” could probably make a huge difference if that one guy took that and spread the word.
But no, not a daily occurrence for all women. Depends on what “culture” you’re in. In my liberal LA neighborhood no one would dare! The “pretty feet” thing was bad enough!
Are you saying that someone saying you have pretty feet was “street harassment”?
No, it wasn’t, but it was odd.
I mean, really, some guy out of nowhere says, “You have the prettiest feet.” ?
Not scary or offensive, just sort of odd.
In my opinion, it’s not just the words but the intent. Some people can say really filthy stuff to me in a way that makes me crack up…the intent and delivery is just plain funny and not at all creepy. Another person can say “I like your earrings” in a way that makes all the hair on the back of my neck stand up and makes me feel like I need to get away. And no, it has nothing to do with whether the person is “good looking” or not…it’s the intent and the vibe. Does it make me feel good or does it alert my alarm systems?
Joanna, this is just the sort of thing that drives me bonkers about relations between (straight) men and women, and discussions about such. When you say that you used to hang out at a particular frat-house, that indicates it was a habitual, on-going thing. Yes, the guys there were “constantly saying weird shit” or “squeezing past you and grazing hands on your ass,” and…
…you put up with it! And from the way you phrase it, none of your group ever did try to take the right guy aside and explain that it made you feel weird. And yet you kept going back! Now, I totally ‘get’ that you didn’t like it, but what this says to me is that the social (or whatever) benefits that your friends got out of the situation significantly outweighed the cost of putting up with such behavior.
I’ve experienced enough in life, seen plenty, read plenty, and discussed it with (male and female) friends thoroughly enough to know that, on the continuum of male behavior with regard to women from totally passive nice-guy (who waits for a signal from the woman before making any move) to the uber-id man (who does as he wishes with no concern for how she feels, i.e. a rapist), women in general prefer a man more toward the uber-id man on the spectrum than the passive nice-guy. I’ve read plenty of comments online along the lines of, “If he has to ask whether he can kiss me, the answer is no. A man should know what he wants and do it.” Not nearly all women feel that way, obviously, but the flip-side to that sentiment is NOT that he should always ask, but, “He should be sensitive enough to read the signals and/or know when it’s appropriate.” Even for the few doctrinaire feminists out there who believe that the guy should ask still implicitly want a man who’s more toward the uber-id end of the spectrum, because, c’mon, they’re not the ones asking him for a kiss! Indeed, every single straight male friend that I’ve discussed it with (which is most of them) have found the same thing– a woman might forgive you for pushing too far, too fast, but she’ll never forgive you for failing to make a move at all.
And there you have it, the reason that some guys make these inappropriate comments– as a strategy to engage in sexual activity, it’s advantageous to push the boundaries, even if occasionally they go to far. The success rate is far, far higher than passively waiting for interest from women.
Because if you wait you will wait forever. Feminists only like “equality” when they benefit from it. If the benefits of equality go to men, you can be certain that feminists are united against it. It’s like all the women who complain about getting too many messages on online dating sites. It must be so SO difficult to sit there and do nothing and get dozens or hundreds of potential dates. Why we men should feel blessed that we even get to spend 5 minutes crafting individual e-mails to women that will be almost certainly completely ignored.
Five minutes?!
I guess you’re a faster writer than I am.
James, knock it off. Don’t generalize Feminists like that.
Women who complain about getting too many messages online in a DATING SITE are idiots, not Feminists. There are male idiots too. Don’t lump idiot women in with all women, or I’ll start lumping idiot men in with the rest of you.
“Don’t judge us by our worst examples”
I like that phrase…borrowed it from a good friend, use it often.
Queue the retorts. ” feminism isn’t monolithic excepting the good parts”… thus proving your point.
Yeah, we definitely were complicit in putting ourselves there over and over. We were really young, and most of my friends easily mistakes “nice tits” for genuine admiration.
It didn’t take long for me to tire of that, and as an adult I rarely went to clubs or pick-up bars. My friends would make fun of me because we’d all be meeting to go the new hot club in LA and some promoter would be getting us in ahead of the line, and whatever and they’d be in the hottest little dresses and skimpy tops and I’d show up in jeans, a cute sweater, my glasses and Pumas. They’d be like, “Dude, what the hell?!”
But I found that I met much nicer, more respectful guys that way (also, I didn’t have to change my clothes after work or get cold from showing too much skin, haha). I also dyed my naturally blonde hair brown for about three years when I was dating in LA because I got less attention.
So you’re right, I learned to adjust my expectations and the situations I put myself in. That’s why I call it a “culture” – to some degree you can choose what “culture” you put yourself in (after the first time). To some degree you can’t. There’s a piece on Jez right now about a woman who was walking in a normal neighborhood in a normal city and a guy on a bike rode up behind her, grabbed her, jammed his finger into her vagina and then drove away. A woman in LA right by Runyan Canyon (incredibly busy with foot traffic) in the morning daylight was attacked on the sidewalk, a man trying to pull off her pants. Of course a bunch of people pulled the guy off, but the attack happened nonetheless. When I was living in WeHo we had a guy who took pictures up our skirts as we walked and then jerked off to them on the street. In the middle of the day! In normal skirts! WTF?!
So in that way, you CANNOT choose whether you’re around “those guys” or not. There are “those guys” everywhere. The difference is that you also hope there are a lot of Those Guys, like the ones who pulled the attacker off the woman at Runyon Canyon, there to help. Sure we should be helping ourselves, but the physical strength difference, and the element of surprise can often just leave you helpless.
Seems like dudes are getting a little less inhibited nowadays. I saw a video where a man pulled off her underwear when she was sunbathing.
If he said nice shoes, would it have bothered you? or was it a comment about your body in particular, or the comment about feet? (Eg eww foot fetish guy?)
Only time I’ve complimented a woman’s feet was 1 second after she told me her feet were ugly.
Seriously, if you don’t know a woman and you’re not already talking to her, don’t start with “Pretty…” or “Nice…” or whatever. “Nice shoes” might be okay if her shoes truly are remarkable. I was jogging in my bright orange shoes once and some firefighters passed me and said, “Nice shoes!” and I liked that. Because they were notable shoes. But if I were in my regular old shoes I’d see it as phony.
Being genuine goes a long way. And starting with, “Hey.” or a comment about what’s happening in the room, “Geeze, it’s crowded in Starbucks today” is a better way to go. Start friendly, not flirty. If she responds well, then you can get to flirty later.
I don’t believe you. I believe that you think that’s why you liked it, but I think the more critical detail was that it was “some firefighters” offering the compliment as they passed you by. If it was “some construction workers” or “some bikers”, my guess is it would have felt creepy, and you wouldn’t attribute it to your notable shoes. What felt nice wasn’t having your shoes noticed (a.k.a. “Nice feet”), but that the compliment made you feel attractive to some firefighters.
This is a substantial source of frustration for men. Often times when a woman says, “Don’t do X,” the real-world meaning of that is, “Don’t do X unless you’re attractive to me.” Most of the time, guys don’t know if they might be attractive unless they try X. Except for firefighters. They can do whatever the hell they want.
Nailed it. LMAO.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact the comment was directed at her shoes rather than her that she liked. I’ve received more comments from women, both compliments and criticism, based on what I wore rather than how I personally looked. I find it equally irritating and don’t find it any less invasive, but there is the possibility that women do.
So, if it had been “some frat boys” complimenting her shoes as they passed, using the same words and same tone, do you think she’d have liked that just as much, owing to her notable shoes? I guess it’s possible, but it doesn’t seem likely to me.
I don’t think it was wrong of Joanna to feel flattered when complimented by attractive people, or that it would be wrong to feel uncomfortable when unattractive people do the same thing. I think we all react that way and it’s just a part of being human. For that very reason, though, I take issue with advice that says people (usually men) shouldn’t do or say [Blah], when quite frequently, [Blah] is okay if the person finds you attractive, and isn’t if they don’t, but you can’t find out without taking the risk. I think respectful complimenting/flirting is more about escalating slowly and backing off if you can see it’s making someone uncomfortable, than about avoiding [Blah] because it’s been known to cause discomfort in some situations.
A shoe/foot compliment is a “Blah” that’s pretty innocuous, but still capable of making someone feel weird. A grazing touch in a crowded bar is much less innocuous and I don’t recommend it as an opening move, but potential reactions still range from “That creep just copped a feel” to “OMG! That cute guy just got bumped into me and I totally liked it!” Higher up the escalation ladder (not to be confused with the first rung), a hand trying to go under the bra for the first time can get reactions from, “Ack! It’s too soon!” to “Let me take this off for you.” As nice as it would be if every reaction could be predicted before actions took place, that’s not how it works. The good guys aren’t those who refrain from trying, but those who are good at recognizing when it’s time to back off and doing so, even if that means back at the stage of giving shoe compliments.
You nailed it Marcus.
Here is a very funny snl skit on sexual harrasment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBVuAGFcGKY
Possible trigger warning about unwanted touching of women. If this would be a trigger for you, then don’t watch this.
It was a friend I should say who thought she had big feet and they were ugly, I thought they were fine. Not a random woman, I barely say hi to random people let alone women.
I think you’re right about neighborhoods and subcultures. I grew up in an uptight conservative suburban neighborhood and left home to live in uptight liberal neighborhoods. Maybe most people around me have been too afraid of women, too afraid of sex, or too afraid to be politically incorrect, or a combination of all three.
Now, let’s talk about butts. What’s not to like about about a nice gluteus maximus? Guys are aesthetic creatures, so the mere site of a sweet butt, can send us into excitement overdrive. A plump tush, parading past on the street, offers tantalizing excitement, of what might be. We immediately think of the possibilities. Perhaps we’ll get to touch that butt (or one like it) with our bare hands. Perhaps we’ll get to bite it. Maybe we’ll get to “explore” it. And who knows, that sweet butt might even have a banging body, attractive face, and a wonderful person attached to it.
Eli, I literally roared out with laughter imagining the more po-faced pulling a prune face read that
This question is a misdirection.
The issue isn’t women’s behinds.
It isn’t men’s presumed attraction to them.
It’s about the broad, complacent entitlement too many men (viz., most of the commenters here) feel to say something about them to women, especially women they don’t know.
Here’s a suggestion: if you don’t know the woman, shut the fuck up. Tell your mother she has a nice ass.
Perfection.
Perfection? It’s literally a slur directed at the commentariat here. Please allow me to point it out, since it seems to have escaped you:
“Viz.,” for those who are unfamiliar, is an unnecessarily pretentious way of saying “namely,” meaning the commenter meant that the specific persons commenting here had this “broad, complacent entitlement.” But is this comment eviscerated for containing personal insults, as are so many others here? Nope, it’s “perfection.”
Second note, I like this so much, I tweeted it and Facebooked it. Never done that with a comment:
“Here’s a suggestion: if you don’t know the woman, shut the fuck up. Tell your mother she has a nice ass.”
““Here’s a suggestion: if you don’t know the woman, shut the fuck up. Tell your mother she has a nice ass.”
So it’s okay to say it if you know the women? My wife and daughter’s body parts are off limits to everyone ESPECIALLY if it’s someone who knows them.
What about when the daughter is 18? Not sure if you don’t want them ever to speak to her about her body parts of if it’s just an issue currently if she’s young? Hopefully her future husband can compliment her?
@Archy …. I hope her boyfriend (now husband) didn’t say things like “nice ass.” It’s for darn sure he didn’t say such things in front of her parents. Just as I wouldn’t be cool about my son doing the same with his girlfriends. It’s one thing to say “babe, you look really nice,” it’s another to comment about her body parts. When I wrote what I did, I was thinking more about a friend of the family making such comments.
I agree with you Tom B.
I wouldn’t mind my daughters bf commenting on her ass, as long as it’s positive and he also compliments the rest of her. Don’t make her feel like her ass is all she is, but let her know she has an attractive ass, body, personality/mind, etc.
Clothes are a form of communication. The REAL entitlement is to expect to have a voice, while others should remain silent.
http://www.myteespot.com/You-Suck-Stewie-Family-Guy-T-shirt-p-5683.html?gclid=CIXVp8znmbECFcXe4Aodnm_Yew
I used to think this way, but over time I’ve come to find that this sort of belief just betrays a general lack of understanding about the male experience.
I had two friends that got really into the PUA community, including “negging.” I could not for the life of me understand why they would find this appealing. Seriously, why would you ever want to go up to a person and purposefully tell them something that you know they did not want to hear?
When I talked with my friends (and tried to get them away from the PUA mentality) what I found were two men who had been worn down by years of being insulted by women who felt entitled to respond to “Can I buy you a drink?” with “I’m way too hot for you to be talking to me…”
We live in a society where men are expected to “make the first move.” Despite the women who come forward and say “But I make the first move sometimes!” there is no debating that the general societal expectation is for men to move first; there are people who do not conform to expectations but their numbers are not sufficient enough to change the expectation.
This dynamic often renders us blind to the responses that men get, over and over and over again. Just last month I remember seeing a guy approach a woman, in public and say “Hi my name is Mark, what’s your name?” and she looked him up and down and responded “I’m so not interested and never will be.” Now, we are going to blame Mark for this because he approached a woman in public who was not interested. But what we are missing is that a woman who knew nothing about Mark just told him that he was unattractive and would never be able to improve upon his situation.
Over time, for some men, the endless avalanche of insults becomes too much. If she’s going to insult you anyway, why not shout “Nice @ss!” and then laugh about it?
The worst part is, I don’t know what the solution is here.
I get that it’s probably very annoying to have strange men come up to you regularly and ask for your phone number. I fully accept that there is a category of men for whom “I’m sorry, but I don’t want to give you my number,” will not be enough to put off. But I do not accept that the solution is to respond with “You’re an unattractive creep who probably shouldn’t leave his mom’s basement.”
And??? Celebrities whine about all the autograph requests too. Poor celebs. Popular means popular, not handpicked. No cake and eat it too allowed.
Moderator Note: Edited to remove generalization
I’m sorry, I don’t really understand what you are saying. I’d like to have a discussion with you, but it looks like the moderator doesn’t want that.
I think he means those with beauty shouldn’t whinge about being popular, just like celebs?? Not sure though…
Mike,
Too often moderators would rather castrate a comment, when they could just as easily mark it with bold/italics/blockletter or whatever. As for commenting on women’s looks… NEVER is an idiotic position for some of the obvious reasons you indicate. The why and how of commenting are what is worth discussing.
It’s too easy for people to lay the blame on men, far harder though it seems to see articles getting women to be accountable for their actions, IE telling them to be polite in the letdown instead of acting like a real (insert word of choice meaning rude person). Negativity begets negativity, treating men like shit will end up having some of those men treating women like shit, which probably makes some of those women treat men like shit n so on in a big cycle of clusterfucks. Men need to stop being rude with their initiations or general speech, and women need to stop being rude with how they let the guy down.
The solution is people being polite, check for a wedding/engagement ring, hell if women are really that bothered then wear a sign saying not interested. Or you know, women could start taking the pressure off men to do the initiating and start hitting on men too so there isn’t this overall need for men to always do the hitting on. If it really bothers people that much to be hit on then either learn to let them down effectively, if that doesn’t work then avoid being in public. No one has the right to be left alone 100% in public, we’re a social species, I can’t walk down the street feeling entitled to never being spoken to. That said people approaching others need to respect boundaries once they’re told of them, if they aren’t interested then bail out n find someone else to talk to.
Here’s the thing. Yeah, that woman was a bitch, and unnecessary. But .. I can’t speak for all women, only myself; but I get really sick of guys with sex in their eyes. Most of them aren’t even overtly creeps. But there’s this look in their eyes … that says that if they don’t get to have sex with me they’ll be really disappointed.
And I do absolutely nothing to invite it, and I still get it a lot and I’m still sick of it. And as someone who has been in that situation, I can tell you for sure, there is no right answer. The only right answer from the woman’s point of view is to say “thanks, but no thanks” and hope he moves on. Most of the time he doesn’t. Maybe he tries having a friendly non-sexual conversation — which fails, because he’s still got that look in his eyes and he’s not really listening, so you can tell he’s just trying the “slow and steady” approach to getting laid. Or he comes on stronger. The only time a guy has taken no for an answer is when I physically moved away from him after I said it.
And I know you guys can’t help thinking about sex a lot, and I give you the benefit of the doubt, but I’ve chatted with recovering alcoholics and sex addicts and homeless guys who successfully keep it to themselves, and don’t make me feel pressured.
And the problem is SO MANY GUYS have THAT LOOK in their eyes. And I’m a really friendly person, but I get really sick of that look. So I can understand a woman who’s a little less friendly and nice than me being a total bitch to (what she sees as) one more guy in a long line of guys who just want to have sex with her.
And I know you guys can’t help thinking about sex a lot,…
Considering that as guys we have it beat into our heads that we are all about having sex there is some truth to this.
You know what I’m sick of??? Women spending billions of dollars on cosmetic enhancements, using makeup labelled fetish/quickie/afterglow, wearing garments like spanx, and then wondering WHY men have sex in our eyes rather than HOW it got there???? Since you “do nothing to invite these looks” I would sincerely like to ask you where I can find a unicorn.
That’s exactly my point. I don’t wear makeup, or perfume, or short shorts. None of my shirts show cleavage and my skirts go to my knees. I cut my hair myself. I don’t put much effort into being attractive or sexual, and I do that deliberately because I don’t want a lot of attention, and STILL at least once a week I get chatted up by someone with that look that makes me so uncomfortable. So how much worse is it for someone who likes to look pretty?
You assume that all women dislike the attention or the look you describe.
I’m really not. I was responding to one story of a woman brutally shooting someone down. Clearly that one woman didn’t like it from that guy.
Your statement about “someone who likes to look pretty” made me think you were speaking more generally.
You must live in New York because the only reasonable answer to your problem is population density. Try to to look on the bright side of things though for every 1 guy who bothers you.. there are over 200,000 that aren’t interested.
As callous as this might sound but don’t you think the sex in the eyes look could be largely biological, hardcoded, quite natural? Or do you mean something extra you feel they can control? It’s no excuse for bad behaviour but I am unsure if the behaviour you speak of could be successfully controlled, or if it should be. BTW I am speaking of the look alone if it’s what I am thinking of, sexual desire? The feeling of attraction he feels for you and thus wants to try get a date?
The part that can be controlled is the not taking no for an answer, that part is wrong. Would you be bothered by guys approaching you if you knew as soon as they find out you aren’t interested that they give up?
When I was growing up I would see movies where the guy had to be persistent to “win” the heart of a woman, I heard messages that persistence pays off. So to hear you and other women’s objections to persistence, but then others who say their partner persisted on and eventually they dated, fell in love n married, etc it becomes quite conflicting and confusing for which route to take. Is persistence spread out over years acceptable? Such as he asks you out, you say no, he doesn’t ask you out again for weeks, months, tries again, repeat on a few times? I get the feeling the persistence in the same night is the really aggravating part? I could be completely wrong, but I am trying to figure out which is the right way to go. To take the no and never try again, or to take the no n try again months later?
‘And the problem is SO MANY GUYS have THAT LOOK in their eyes. And I’m a really friendly person, but I get really sick of that look.”
Let’s see if I can write a response to this that doesn’t sound too defensive.
Let’s say for the sake of argument that there is a totally unmistakable look in a man’s eyes, and you have never misinterpreted the look. We’ll just leave aside the question of how accurate that perception is and assume it’s all true.
My eyeballs belong to me. What I do with them and with my brain are my choice. If someone has a problem with the way that my eyes appear, that’s not my problem. That’s the other person’s problem. You can’t actually feel someone’s eyes on you. You can’t actually feel a stare. That’s an illusion. My eyes do not send out tentacles that touch you. That’s a myth.
I’m not going to keep my eyes cast down to the ground in case a woman is offended by the look in my eyes. I’m not going to wear an eye burqa of some kind in order to hide the slightest possibility of a sexual thought in my head.
Picture the genders flipped here. Check out the paraphrased reversal:
“Everywhere I go women look at me like they want to have sex with me. I can see it in their eyes.”
How does that sound? I think for most people that would sound really absurd and quite self-centered. To a lot of women it would even sound like a warped sense of boundaries. I would agree with all of that.
(I probably failed at not sounding defensive. I really did try….)
Rowan,
I do not believe your perceptions accurately reflect what is going on around you.
We live in a society that stereotypes men as sex-obsessed-potential-rapists. As a result, you have deluded yourself into thinking that there is a “sex look” that you are 100% capable of detecting in the eyes of the majority of men you deal with. In other words, the way you were socialized has effectively convinced you that you possess a superpower (literally a form a telepathy) that allows you to accurately read the minds of men through their eyes.
In reality, this is little different from the shopkeeper who just “knows” that the black guy was about to shoplift from the way the black guy “looks” or was “acting.”
Just as the shopkeeper cannot actual read the mind of the black guy, and is instead responding to cultural stereotypes (i.e. black guys are criminals), you cannot actually read the minds of men, and are instead responding to a cultural stereotype (i.e. men are sex obsessed).
You can tell me that I am denying your experience, but I am not. I genuinely believe that you feel this way. However, your emotions do not define reality, and they do not determine the thoughts that are actually going on in the heads of the men around you.
You can claim to “really know” when guys are thinking about sex, but again, this is no different from the shopkeeper who “really knows” that the black guy is about to rob him.
The sooner you realize this, the better off we will all be. You will begin to respect men more, and men will be better off for receiving your respect.
“if you don’t know the woman….”
So, does this mean once you shake hands with her and exchange names you can compliment her on her body parts? : – )
I think it’s odd and rude that total strangers will make a comment about my height or ask me how tall I am. Again, this is usually men doing this more often than women, but there is something going on in their minds that just doesn’t seem to go on in mine. Maybe that’s the closest I can get to experiencing similar feelings. Total strangers commenting on one’s body can be a little off-putting. Theoretically I guess I’m not supposed to mind and am supposed to be grateful that I’m tall, but honestly it just feels invasive.
Why Are Guys So Obsessed With My Butt? Seriously?! Get a life.
A nice ass generally comes with a nice curvaceous body that signals reproductive health, thus men feel a yearning to fulfill their biological imperative. I don’t trust anyone who doesn’t agree with Sir Mixx-a-Lott on that score.
As to the comments, some guys just have no game. Generally, one should only compliment the ass if he has earned the right to touch it. Overt comments about the bits and pieces are poor form when dropped in casual conversation. But the questioner knows that. If the booty comments were appropriate, she wouldn’t be asking.
Good rule! If you’re at the stage in life where you’re touching each other’s asses, you can compliment it! Otherwise, compliment something else (genuinely).
“Earn the right to touch it????” You give bad advice. One litmus test for good game is how fast you can successfully deliver certain comments.
I fail to see how my statement conflicts with yours. I didn’t say you have to grab it first, just that too sexual too soon is not a winning combo. If that compliment is well received, you’re already moving in the right direction. It has to be a sniper shot — precise and targeted — not a shotgun blast from across the room.
How is more important than when. Get off the too soon kick.
I used an analogy, but I addressed the how. If rolling like Cheech and yelling, “Hey baby!” to women walking down the street works for you, then go for it. Otherwise, timing matters.
Moderator Note: Edited to remove personal insult
Your “Cheech” hyperbole is a how, not a when. You still don’t get it.
IDBY, man, we’re talking past one another. I don’t disagree with the how, but with regard to specific, overt compliments about boobs and butts, timing matters. Your examples are subtle compliments, not ‘I sure do like them big ole titties.’ And I suspect the bra line was a neg.
“As to the comments, some guys just have no game. Generally, one should only compliment the ass if he has earned the right to touch it. Overt comments about the bits and pieces are poor form when dropped in casual conversation”
Bullshit. A few weeks ago I was on a first date with a girl and I told her I liked her breasts and was spending a lot of time checking them out. When I phoned her later on I said I wanted to kiss them. I didn’t touch her breasts the whole date because she had a rule about that. But my comments got her horny enough that I got to spend a lot of quality time with them on the next date.
Another woman who I met for the first time outside an exam hall, I told within 1 hour of conversation that I wanted to have casual sex with her. On our first date she was actually quivering in anticipation. Women do this when they are extremely turned on. It doesn’t happen often.
This type of thing is an art. You have to gauge the woman, her comfort with you, her openness, how comfortable she is with sex etc.
You may be able to say these things far before you can actually do anything. But saying them can be part of the process of seduction.
Don’t be dense. You were on a date with the first and engaged in conversation with the second. In bothczars, the girls were interested. I can’t remember the specifics, but hasn’t research shown women decide quickly whether or not men will be cleared for landing, as it were? Regardless, in both cases your mentioned it sounds like you had already earned the right. Making her more receptive isn’t the same as building initial attraction. Give me examples of walking up to strangers, starting conversations with “nice tits,” and getting somewhere and maybe I’ll change my tune.
Both “nice Ink” , “great bra” , “Ooh firm” have worked for me this year.
Calling someone out on the street is wrong and the guys that do it are acting poorly but honestly, are they the norm?
Why are you obsessed with idiot guys who act poorly in public? Strangely enough, same guys that strut their stuff at happy hour at the local hang outs.
Being an old FART (Father Against Rebellious Teens) I’m not up on the latest terminology but I believe the word is “sluggin” Take a look at the lyrics from Twista,(formely known as Tung Twista) American rapper from Chicago ….. She Sluggin lyrics – (Chorus) She sluggin’ She sluggin’ She sluggin’ She … Got to love her when I’m looking at her butt … Girl I don’t mean no disrespect … So why are guys obsessed? This isn’t the only song that promotes the attraction of the female behind.
Okay, so the first time I heard the word “sluggin” was when some kids at the facility were talking about some women being “sluggin.” I asked what it meant and they told me that it means that she had a lot of hair. I responded with “then I guess my wife is sluggin.” They rolled on the floor laughing and with prompting on my part, they explained the real meaning. I thought to myself, “nope, she’s definitely not sluggin.”
If you can handle it, I would suggest you listen to a lot of the music and watch the videos. Perhaps then, you will understand why some guys are okay with being disrespectful to women? But then again, I don’t see the feminists standing up against the music industry and demanding some changes being made either.
Attraction is hard to define because each person defines it for themselves. I think that butts get more attention than other body parts because it’s hidden and also visible. It’s something you’re not generally allowed to see, but you can kind of see it like the kid with basic cable trying to catch a glimpse at the scrambled adult channels.
Street harassment is bad, but there are times when something just comes out. Like when you watching a movie and you realize something that the lead character doesn’t, you might say look behind the mirror. Sometimes your thoughts pop into your head and are spoken reactively. I’ve passed gorgeous women before and have said wow. I remember once looking at a woman and being transfixed. I remember simply stating you’re beautiful.
We’re mammals. Even if people’s asses were out 24/7, we’d still find them attractive.
I’m pretty sure that this site deleted a comment from be saying just that. But that’s because they hate science here. They hate everything that smacks of ‘generalization’, and you don’t get anything more ‘generalized’ than actual facts – such as the fact that the ass is the primary sexual attractor of every single mammalian species on this planet.
Women’s bodies are beautiful, and one of the most beautiful parts is their rear, derrière, ass, tush, whatever you want to call it. Sadly, in my experience as a guy who’s been around a long time I have found that so many women feel their backsides are too big, when I find them perfect or close to it. (Actually, I have never liked the word “butt” because it just sounds so harsh to me about a typically beautiful, soft, and curvaceous part of a woman’s body.)
I certainly don’t think even the most beautiful female bottom merits catcalls, but there is nothing wrong with admiring a great ass. And since we don’t have eyes in the back of our heads, such admiration is typically not offensive. My wife assures me that my belief that women who wear tight-fitting pants or skirts are well aware that men are looking is correct.
I have always loved the female bottom, and years ago, when I was writing and singing funny songs all over the place, I wrote one expressing this love – inspired by a very special someone in my life. It was always one of my most popular songs, and I recently re-recorded it for a YouTube video. I present it herewith to express my veneration for one of the things that makes life worth living:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwbTazHeK2k
Perhaps this is totally obvious, and I assume that the letter writer understands this, but just in case:
If, like a lot of young women today, you wear an article of clothing with a big word written across the seat, then I will look at your ass. By its very nature, a written language requires visual processing. (Except in the case of braille, but it would be rude to read the ass-words by touch.) I apologize beforehand for the fact that sometimes I am a very slow reader. Thanks to “Hooked on Phonics,” I may have to sound out every letter.
Just pretending for the moment that it really matters what a woman wears when it comes to catcalls.
“Why are men so obsessed about my butt?”
Well, some good news is that probably none of these men is actually obsessed with your particular butt. He’s probably already forgotten about it five seconds later when another butt walked by. Your butt is probably not on their minds all that much except for the brief moment that they notice you. Not everyone makes it into the spank bank. Your perception of their obsession may be different from their actual level of interest.
Speaking merely anecdotally, in broad generalizations.
On the topic of just looking I think you have a point here. It’s someone interesting we look and enjoy the view for a few moments and then go on about our day.
It’s one thing to say “You look beautiful” vs specifically pointing out a body part. It’s like seperating the person from the sexuality of the body part. A much more impressive comment is “you are a beautiful woman, I particuarly love your eyes”. Women like to know that they are the full package, not just being rated and judged based on their body parts. As if they as a person are independent from them. Men appear to have a very easy time disecting women apart like that.
I also think when strange men compliment your body, it’s not really that sincere. It’s simply because he’s hot over a body part you may have. It’s not out of the sincerity to compliment you. It more appears to be that *he* likes whatever feature he is commenting on and he wants you to know he likes it. He isn’t giiving it to really compliment her so much as let her know what he likes. There is a difference in my opinion.
Which leads me to this point, compliments from husbands and boyfriends are infinitly more special then compliments from random men. A husband and boyfriend could get away with sometimes saying, “I love your butt baby”, because he already loves other parts about her too.
I think women get drained about how much focus there is placed on their bodies. I know I do. We pretty much have it repeatedly beat into our heads that men love women’s bodies. It CAN be a very nice and wonderful thing but the repeated messages about the female body can be callus and really wear on you as a woman.
I think men get drained on how much focus and money women spend on making their body parts attractive, while simultaneously complaining about the results. You know, the best thing I’ve heard on recently from is when Joanna said she dressed down on purpose when going out. Now dressing down is subjective, but I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt.
IDBY, in all sincerity, would you have used the word “drained” if I hadn’t? Or did you use the word “drained” to make a point about men’s feelings so you wouldn’t have to really listen to the point I was making about women’s in this case?I am sure men get tired in their own right by female behavior. I just don’t understand why you used this as a means to “counter”(?) what I said. I also don’t think men get tired about ogling, evaulating or juding female body parts even if they get tired of the amount of money women spend making their body parts attractive. I am sure you can understand why women spend the time and money on making their body parts attractive just as much as I can understand men being attracted to a woman’s body. If you are personally tired of women that spend their focus and money on their own body parts, then perhaps you should encourage the opposite of that by looking for women that are more natural. Such as women that don’t wear make up, don’t use surgical “enhancements”, women that don’t get their nails done, their hair done or go for facials, women that don’t shave…and so on. It’s been my experience that it’s the women that do do these things that end up garnering the most attention from men.
On a small side note about this:
…then perhaps you should encourage the opposite of that by looking for women that are more natural.
I get what you are saying but I wish it were that easy. Even when men do make such expressions we are told that either we don’t really feel that way or that we are still engaging in body policing even though we are only talking about preferences. It’s like some folks just don’t want to believe that there are men out there that don’t go for all the “enhancements” (like the ones you mention). Apparently if we aren’t ogling then we aren’t interested.
Danny, I don’t know what you mean by “body policing” but when women come back and saying like ‘oh you don’t really think that”, that’s her issue. I know that I personally have had a hard time always believing things men say. It’s something I’ve had to work on. For example, sometimes it’s so gosh darn hard for me to just take a compliment. I use to deny them and put myself down. So for a long time when someone gave me a compliment I would smile and say thank-you EVEN if I didn’t think I deserved it. I am much gracious in receiving compliments then I use to be even if I far from perfect about it. Sometimes the mass messages women are sold about men conflict with what is going on with an individual man and I know that women can be prone to ignoring what an individual man may say in light of what she thinks she may know about men through years of negative stereotyping or experiences.
The truth is, a lot of men do like “enhancements” on women. And I don’t just mean women that have surgery. But the women that get paid attention to are the ones that display their sexuality. I have even heard men talk about how they might not even like a feature of a woman but they will ogle it anyway simply because it’s different. Well, women can’t read minds so if women see men ogling/enjoying a body part, they are naturally going to say, “oh, so that’s what he likes”.
I’m using body policing in the sense of trying to tell women what to do with their bodies. I agree that no one should be trying to tell someone else what to do with their body but there is a big difference between “I like ___.” and “You need to ___.”
I get what you’re saying and yes there are guys out there that go for that stuff but:
Well, women can’t read minds so if women see men ogling/enjoying a body part, they are naturally going to say, “oh, so that’s what he likes”.
Well if men are too busy going with that to recognize when it’s not true then they shouldn’t be expecting us to change for them especially when we might be closer to how they feel about it anyway.
There is a lot of work to be done on all sides here.
“Well, women can’t read minds so if women see men ogling/enjoying a body part, they are naturally going to say, “oh, so that’s what he likes”.”
Start enhancing your eyes n smile then:P But seriously there are some smiles, eyes that absolutely captivate me.
Want to get my attention? BURN those silly belts that do nothing but look huge around your midsection, I hate them. Don’t wear stupidly high heels, I hate seeing them. Wear your hair down, I adore full hair. Don’t look like a racoon with your eyeliner. etc
Is that the truth women want to hear from men? Their invididual likes/dislikes? The women that get the majority of my attention usually have a certain kind of smile n way their eyes look, I dunno why but it absolutely steals my breath. They’re also women that smile a lot and have a lot of positive energy, usually a bubbly attitude, the kind of women that when you’re around them YOU feel better just for being in their presence (positive guys also have that effect on me, but not with the added romantic or sexual feelings).
Thing is, other guys will be different, what I like and what other guys like could be chalk n cheese. If a woman is trying to look good for all men then she will fail straight away because it’s impossible to be universally attractive, at best she can get a certain kind of guy and maybe be lucky and get quite a few guys attention but the thing that attracts me the most to people after the initial beauty (not the main or only thing I like btw) has caught my attention is their personality, positive energy. If women spent 1/10th the time on their personalities than they did on their looks then some would really have a major effect. I can’t tell you how many negative people I meet, they’re draining to be around, I can only handle so much negativity in my life. Of course this also applies to guys hence partly why I also work at being positive, happy, fun to be around.
Beauty doesn’t save a negative person, I may like how they look but if I can’t stand their attitude then that isn’t going to work. One of the most attractive women I know currently has fairly decent looks (is there a way to say this without sounding insulting?) but what really makes her shine is her personality, absolutely sweet, nice, caring, bubbly, positive energy. The kinda person that 5 seconds with will make your day better. To me she is far more attractive than some models I’ve known. You can’t apply that effect with makeup, clothes, shoes, etc. It’s sad that I’ve seen quite a few women spend so much of their time, energy, and money on their beauty yet have personalities that are fucking terrible. They might get attention but if you’re personality is shitty then that attention may only be a relationship you don’t want, a one night stand when you want the whole shebang of the house n kids.
This applies to everyone really. Beauty can get the initial attention, but so can great, happy smiles, looking like you’re having fun AND a fun person to be around. And unless you want me specifically, there is no point in you adjusting your dress sense to match what I like, nor does it matter if you have a kick ass personality and I get those lovey dovey feelings, feelings which I can not say what kind of woman evoke them because they popup randomly. There’s no one set look, bodytype, etc, that can evoke lust, love in everyone, at best it gets you “in the door” so to speak.
But if women are so seriously worried about being noticed, how about actually approaching the guy they like? Shock, horror, couldn’t do that could they? Dressing up and standing there hoping the guy sees her like he’s browsing the supercar showroom for his dream car isn’t always going to work. Do you realize how many guys are shy as hell and are nervous of approaching women, you probably don’t even know they have noticed you because they’re darting their eyes around the room instead n trying their best to not get caught looking at women they desire.
Go out, have fun, don’t fret over your looks so much n focus more on enjoying your time out.
Oh, I listened alright!
I used “drain” to make a sarcastic dig at the “have your cake and eat it too” mentality implicit in your comment. I like women to dress however they feel comfortable dressing. But they need to OWN that as a form of communication… which far too many refuse to do. If for example, a woman chooses to wear glittery, gooey lipstick, then by all means she doesn’t get to gripe when the guys that cross her path focus on her “perrtty” mouth.
If I were to throw money around in front of women, I wouldn’t then gripe about the resultant dollar signs in these women’s eyes.
I know why you used “drain”.
A woman simply wearing something that a man may find sexy doesn’t mean she is trying to “throw” anything infront of him or even be sexy. Men and women don’t always see eye to eye. The fact that she is wearing something a man may think is an “invitation”, doesn’t justify his actions anyway. He is responsible for his actions no matter what she does. Even if she was running down the street naked!
Just as if you were throwing money around infront of women, if a woman took advantage of that, that is on her. That would be *her* responsibility. She is the one that decided to take advantage. Just because someone thinks something is being offered, doesn’t mean taking someone up on it is right.
Within reason, yes, women should be aware of what they wear. But a man can’t really blame his actions or reactions based on another either.
By the way, I just came back from the airport from dropping someone off. On my way back home a man started honking at me and making motions at me that he was clearly intersted in me. My hair was down, I had make up on, eve lipstick. We were on a very busy road and his honking at me scared me. I didn’t know if I as doing something wrong or if something was wrong with my car or what. But it turned out that he wanted to make “romantic” gestures at me. Did I invite that simply because I was in my car with make-up, lipstick and my hair nicely done??
The vast majority of women aren’t so hot so that if they dressed like nuns men would still fall all over themselves. The simple fact is that women know what gets male attention, act on it, and yet pretend that such directed attention from us is out of nowhere.
The blatant truth is that women spend billions of dollars on daily used products to make themselves sexy and hookers wear what they do for a reason. So if guys are hitting on you, look in the mirror. Save the fat girl who gets fetish attention, women don’t get to play coy over this.
And sorry, but a naked woman running down the street is signaling to men that short of groping, everything from propositions to photographs to 911 calls is OK. Nude women don’t get to be indignant while being indecent.
As for your question about “invitation” what is the purpose of the 1st world luxury called lipstick? He had every right to a ask you for a kiss! And you have every right to say no, but you don’t have to pretend that you weren’t wearing a welcome mat on your face.
Erin says:
“A woman simply wearing something that a man may find sexy doesn’t mean she is trying to “throw” anything infront of him or even be sexy.”
Erin, in my opinion this idea embraces gender stereotypes in that men have agency and women don’t. Men are actors, and women are acted upon.
When women spend 20 to 40 minutes selecting the pair of jeans that makes her butt particularly juicy, these women either do it for the purpose of (or are happy with the side affect of) attracting male attention.
Your statement marginalizes the agency the women exercises in dressing in a way to provoke a response (or being happy with that side affect, even if that isn’t her main goal).
This comes down to whether we are going to treat women like children or adults.
Yup
IDBY, you’ve missed my point. I am not saying women have no responsibility for how they dress. I am simply stating the fact that each other’s responsibility is independent from the other. No matter what a woman wears, a man is still 100% responsible for his own actions himself. His actions are not dependent on how *she* decided to act. And vice versa. What I see is a mentality that what a woman chooses to do is where you believe the responsibility lies for both sides. And that is unreasonable. Just because a woman wears something a man may think is an invitation, doesn’t mean she sees it the same way. And even if a man does think it’s an invitation, there is a way to engage in a way that isn’t limited to, “nice ass baby”.
Consider the situation of finding a lost diamond ring at a restaurant. The temptation might be there to take the ring. One might even rationalize it by the fact that the person was careless enough to leave it there so they deserve to loose it. But the right thing to do would be to turn the ring in incase that person comes back looking for it. Just because someone left the ring behind, doesn’t mean who finds the ring doesn’t have their own choices to make is my point here.
Further, I really found your comment about me “wearing a welcome mat on my face” all because I wore lipstick not only disrespectful but simply ridiculous. Lipstick is wore in all matters of social interactions. Weddings, funerals, work, dates…simply wearing lipstick alone is not an invitation of sexual promises. Most of us aren’t Amish. Driving in my own car, minding my own business, simply wearing lipstick is not anything close to “wearing a welcome mat on my face”. I do not deserve to have some man endanger both our lives on a busy highway with honking and gestures all because I wore lipstick and I am in my own car minding my own business. And insinuating that I do shows the lack of responsibility you give him while fostering all the responsibility on me. And this is exactly the issue I am talking about.
John D, women spend time selecting clothes they think makes them look good or cute or sexy or pretty or professional or smart or…..a 100 million different reasons. Fashion is not always about “sexy” for women. I think a lot of fashion trends prove that. Even if it is sexy, it’s not always an invitations. Why can’t a woman want to look sexy for herself without it being an invitation? Are we really claiming that women only want to look sexy for men? You can not all exclusively say that all women dress the same way for the same reasons. I am sure some women do dress with the intent of sex. But I also know that women dress with the intent for themselves. Just like not all men buy nice cars just to show off and flash their cash. Some men just buy nice cars because *they* like a nice car. I have heard people make fun of older guys driving flashy cars or say that he’s just doing it to score with younger women. But why does that have to be the case? Older guys aren’t allowed to like red convertibles without it meaning he’s trying to get some?
Your statement marginalizes the agency men have in making their own choices independent of what women may do. Are men slaves to their sexuality and to the whims of what women wear? I don’t think they are.
Lastly, you are the only one comparing and attempting to tie women into being children. No one else here has done that. I am not even sure why you are condesending toward women to the point of making them even in the same catagory as children. And I can’t even begin to imagine what your response would be to a woman who had done the same to men.
Yes, harassment & unwanted sexual advances are a widespread male problem, and in need of more attention.
But as for the general male interest in admiring your ass (and other physical qualities) which it seems the OP wants to escape, here’s my argument about the genetic tradeoff we were all born into:
For the (one could argue) small price of getting your butt complimented each day, you as a woman, get to go most of your life without ever having to face the difficulty of daily rejection by the opposite sex. Because for the most part, despite feminism’s best efforts, guys will initiate all romantic activities for you. They’ll spot you from afar (usually attracted by your butt, amongst–hopefully–other things) cross the room to say hi (so you don’t have to lift a finger), trying to figure out a way to start up conversation with you, risk you brushing them off, or just not being available, or being rude if you choose, then go through the incredibly challenging process of establishing chemistry, flirting, getting to know you, making you feel comfortable, finding out if they even like your personality as much as your ass, then gradually go through the other 10-15 steps of possible rejection such as asking your name, then where you live, if you’re single, your phone number, whether you’re free next week, if you’d like to get coffee/ drinks/ dinner. Even if a guy makes it past all that, there’s still a litany of ways you can reject him–his choice of restaurant, his car, his clothes, his views, something he did wrong at dinner, a joke you didn’t like. The journey to that first kiss or first night together involves a hundred trials & judgements for a guy, and the woman gets to play judge & jury the whole way. All the power is in your hands. Think of how you felt when you were trying to get accepted into college. That’s what being a guy in the dating world is like every day. We apply for the role, and you get to reject or approve however you see fit. Yes, you have pressure to look good and keep your ass in shape. But so do guys, on top of the pressure to do 95% of the initiating in the courtship process. The difficulty of which you are generally and blissfully unaware of.
I know you your situation is hard, and of course unwelcome harassment is an awful cross to bear, and for that we apologize on behalf of our less tactful brethren. But I think if you were to trade places, you’d feel you had it a lot easier when guys were just staring at your butt all the time.
Harassment is real, but since humans can’t read minds there is no such thing as an unwanted sexual advance. Someone has to make the 1st move, and someone must communicate yes or no.
Yeah, I would use the term uninvited sexual advance. Short of wearing barbed wire around them like armor there is no way for a women to pre-broadcast before initiation that she is uninterested.
As you said, since initiation is necessary to determine the “wantedness” of attention, there are only uninvited sexual advances (from the man’s perspective).
From the woman’s perspective (only) the unwanted definition applies.
Sorry but “unwanted” does not simply define a female perspective, but also a “sex crime”. That’s my point. The term should not exist in a legal framework.
Agree
“Why Are Guys So Obsessed With My Butt?”
ahhhh, Why Not? Why are connoisseurs of anything interested?
Put the outfits on Ebay with a link to this discussion and you’ll make a fortune….
“I notice today, my ability to hear is inversely proportionate to the expanse of the cashier‘s cleavage. I guess I’m not looking at her lips. And I’m not turning my good ear entirely her way. Now that I’ve noticed this; I’ll have to check if I try for leans forward & repeats. I had no problem with the guy at the Bodega this morning. The brown-skinned cashier at the bank and the freckled red-head at the coffee bar had to holler to make themselves understood.” – Creepy Old Guy Update.
Well I can relate to this… recently lost some 55 lbs, lost 6 inches on my waist, thru the divorce diet, then thru cycling and cutting back on crap food..Im walking down the hall earlier this year one of our “admin staff” who is a early 60 ish female tells me she was following me down the hallway and Just had to tell me I looked real “good”.. I was a little taken back by her comment, but I thought if things were reversed I would be so out of a job IF the female was offended and she would probably “bank” the incident until I pissed her off in the future
I dunno, why are women so obsessed with my hair?