He’s a nice guy, but women only like him when he treats them like crap. Can he be a nice guy and still get the girl?
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Hi Sandy,
I’m 36, divorced six years, and I have four kids. I enjoy being single—riding my motorcycle, hanging out with friends, coming and going as I please, and having crazy fun with the kids. Life is great, but I REALLY want a woman to share in the fun, a best friend, a partner.
The “wrong” girl is easy to attract. I could play mind games and attract anyone with a planted perception of someone I wasn’t. I guess my question in a nutshell is, where are all the good women, the ladies, the women of character?
Many women have told me I’m good looking (6’ 2”, fairly muscular). I’m very active and in great physical condition.
I fall victim to the “nice guy” syndrome. If I act like a thug or a jerk, women want to jump in bed with me. I have experimented with this as a social exercise.
I fall victim to the “nice guy” syndrome. If I act like a thug or a jerk, women want to jump in bed with me.
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I read columns like yours, and hear all these women go on and on about finding “Mr. Kindhearted”. Yet kindhearted gets you curbed as weak and unattractive.
It isn’t a lack of take charge, or knowing what I want and like. I can date a woman for two months and be aloof and dismissive, and she will blow my phone up texting and calling, and want to go out four times a week. If I show the least desire to connect, or go deeper and actually be friends, BAM! Dear John letter within a week.
I refuse to compromise who I am. I’m strong, competent, confident, and happy. I’m also intelligent, flexible, and sensitive. I make crazy good money, I am responsible, stable, and well established, but also have a fun loving, adventurous side.
Basically I work hard to play harder. I know there is a lack of good guys. I’m afraid there is an equally large deficit of good women. Am I just being impatient? Six years is a long time.
Why does “the game” work? Why do women say they hate game players yet that’s all they will date?
How long does it take to find a woman mature enough to recognize that strength and manhood is not defined by boyish braggadocio and false machismo?
How long does it take to find a woman mature enough to recognize that strength and manhood is not defined by boyish braggadocio and false machismo?
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A good man is not selfish and knows how to lead while considering his partner and compromising.
Yet selfish jerks get all the um…“action”. In my experience most women want self-absorbed jerks. They eat them up.
How do I attract Ms. Right? Honesty and openness sure don’t work. Do I just need to wait until I’m older, and in the age group that is finally mature enough to appreciate a real man and not just a horny bad boy?
I LOVE my life. Someone else out there has to feel the same way. You seem wise, mature, and well informed. I really would like your perspective and advice.
Thanks,
Larry
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Dear Larry,
Thanks for sharing your dating dilemma and being open to my feedback. You seem like a smart, articulate, fun, and responsible man with a terrific attitude about life. I know tons of women who are looking for a guy just like you. Really. So why can’t you attract your Ms. Right?
Do you really only have two options; to act the part of the bad boy and temporarily attract women (until you show up as the real you), or remain a nice guy and possibly stay single for a long, long time?
Bad Boy or Nice Guy?
- Be the bad boy: Treat women like crap. They flock to you. You don’t feel comfortable being fake or mean, and I agree. I don’t support using games and manipulation to attract a woman. The woman you’re looking for doesn’t want a guy who uses trickery and suave macho tactics to win her over.
- Be the nice guy: When you’re the nice guy, women run for the hills. I have to wonder if you’re just attracting the wrong women, or whether it’s something you’re doing or saying that’s turning women off.
Be the nice guy…with an edge.
You don’t want to bait and switch a woman by starting out as the aloof bad boy and then turning into a nice guy. Be your authentic self…AND maintain an edge.
You don’t want to bait and switch a woman by starting out as the aloof bad boy and then turning into a nice guy.
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You’re a cool guy. Show women your adventurous side, the guy who loves to ride a motorcycle, is passionate about life, cares deeply about his work, and is a devoted dad. That’s sexy!
The edge is also about having opinions and not being afraid to share them. It’s about having boundaries and not being afraid to enforce them. It’s about not twisting yourself into a pretzel to make a woman happy if it means giving up your needs.
It’s about maintaining a little mystery as you’re getting to know a woman. Don’t reveal everything about yourself early on in the relationship.
Vulnerability and openness are very attractive character traits. But, many people bond by sharing their wounds; stories about crazy mothers, gold-digging exes, and kidney stones.
Bond on the good stuff as you get to know a woman. The hard stuff is much easier to hear when you really like each other.
Do a slow reveal. When you bond through your wounds, you can come across as a victim or needy, and that’s a turnoff to the strong women of character you’re seeking.
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- Be your authentic fabulous self.
- Bring more of your edge to the table and bond on the good stuff.
- Be more selective in the dating process.
Trust me, a mature confident woman who values herself will be attracted to a good guy like you. Don’t give up hope. She’s out there. And she’s looking for a guy just like you.
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Do you think nice guys finish last? Do you believe only the bad boys get all the women? Please share your comments below.
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Photo: Flickr/Pic Basement
Don’t waste your time with this advice. Being vulnerable & open only leaves you vulnerable & fucking open. Lose your soft ass view of the world. Fuck your gay ass happiness. Go achieve things. As for women: Choose the one you want to have sex with. Tell her what you expect from her. If she’s worth anything she’ll also have expectations of you. In this current climate you’re not going to find a girl with everything you want. So that leads me to my next point. You’re going to have to train her. Let’s say she meats 3 out 7… Read more »
Everytime I try to Google search something on nice guys, it doesn’t take long for me to hit a result on either a website from a pickup artist or a website from feminists. Why just below the search result for this article was one from Everyday Feminism called “Seven Lies Nice Guys Tell You”. Men. We are the enemy. And we do NOT have the upper hand. Bad boys are the enemy too, but at least they get what they want.
Fuck bitches get money, you don’t need a parasite in your life
are you mad, he knows how to get women, he wants to know why all women lie, he is ok, it was people like me who believed womens lies about wanting a nice man, 36 years later I’m still a virgin because of these lies all women said all the time, whats sad is a lot of other good men are the same, we see women getting abused nailed crumbling when an alpha male beats her and clicks his fingers and the hottest woman just undresses for him and does everything she can to please her master, yet the good… Read more »
@Natalie
Well said ! 🙂 Exactly! 🙂
Who wants a nice guy? A Women of character wants a Good man – there’s a difference. Similar to that one between kind, supportive womant and doormat/ppl pleaser. A good man is in control but not controlling, dominant but not domineering, strong but not forceful, spontaneous but not impulsive… I can go on, but you get the idea
“Who wants a nice guy? A Women of character wants a Good man – there’s a difference… A good man is in control but not controlling, dominant but not domineering, strong but not forceful, spontaneous but not impulsive… I can go on, but you get the idea.” Ah yes- the perfect (or near-perfect) balance. People and relationships always look so simple and clear-cut on paper, when they’re boiled down to ‘good’ and ‘bad’ adjectives to unpack: But it’s in the nuances where things start getting complicated. Now granted, those are good distinctions you mentioned, but -of course- we all perceive &… Read more »
@FlyingKal
Hmmm .. Maybe I’m just weird but I like the fails and everything else 🙂
@ FlyingKal Edge .. I was just saying in another response .. To me means unique and unpredictable . I want push-pull. bad days good days funny sad.. Uncensored. All the things that I expect in a partner I give in return. I want their best and their worst. And somewhere in all of that you figure out if what we really are works together or doesn’t. I’m not an expert I can only speak from my own experiences. I think girls and guys get dismissed on the dating scene for the same reasons prob…Tell me good and bad things… Read more »
Hi Care, and thank you for the answer. I think what bugs me is that I basically just have a streak of kindness in me. I do compromise, and I will answer a call for help. That doesn’t mean that I won’t stand up for myself, or for the people I love/surround myself with, when the need arises. But I just don’t believe in stirring up shit just for the sake of it. I’m rather un-prestigious, and will rather let something slide, or just walk away, than enter or escalate an argument just for the sake of a fight. Which… Read more »
that’s not true at all and you know it why do all women get so embarrassed by how easy women have it, they have to pretend daft things like ” men and women get rejected for the same thing” you know fullwell they don’t, when is a hot woman who approaches a guy rejected for being nice sweat and not knowing game ? never right ! guys would you reject a hot women that approached you aquadly and nervously, of course no one would butt all women will !, Also your stupid for another reason a nice man is nice… Read more »
@ John Anderson I absolutely agree. Compromise and balance are key in a relationship. Because when we really like someone we want to please them. Edge to me is that something about someone that makes them unique and unpredictable. If we say hey I met a nice guy.. Well great! Buuuut…what else? Is he really nice 100% of the time .. Or the girl you like .. Is she a good girl 100% of the time.. No! Geez I hope not at least.. I want someone I’m with who at their core is a Decent individual .. I just want… Read more »
It’s a matter of balance and perspective. Women not admitting to what they want or not having a clear picture of what they want is not a problem for men to fix. On the other hand, we all do things (make compromises or adjustments) to attract and keep the people we value. If I liked my girlfriend with long hair, I’d expect her to keep it long. If she preferred me clean shaven then, I’m shaving my mustache and beard. It’s all about what an “edge” entails. If she wants me to wear my taekwondo jacket, I might still be… Read more »
@ Jules Oh wow! I just saw your 9:23 response. I don’t even know how to respond. You speak like someone who has clearly been burned by women. I’m sorry but we are not all gold digging whores. Trust me we are successful witty and capable .. Just out there in the world looking for the same things you guys are looking for. Your comments smack of some serious mysogyny. I can’t help you there. It just lets me know that nothing I say will ever be good enough for you. So I guess we’ll just have to agree to… Read more »
your not looking for the same, guys want a hot well mannered nice woman who will love them, women want an abusive rapist violent phyco path woman beating scumbag ! or at least that’s what most women go for, how is it that most men don’t abuse but most women are abused ? my guess is all women are lying !
@ Jules Huh??? I’m confused. How is what I said a sad day for men? I essentially said .. Hey all men and women..just be yourselves. Because that’s sexy! .. BUT .. Ourselves are not comprised of just good OR bad … Is that where you feel I’ve messed up? All those ambiguous layers in between are so attractive. I’m just saying please stop letting societal mores of a girl should be sweet and a guy should be rugged .. Get in the way of just being you. I will never be convinced that a sweet loving guy or girl… Read more »
@Care,
You expressed what I was trying to convey in my article. Most see black or white options; nice guy or jerk. I say be a good guy (or woman) with an edge, with all the layers, interests, and passions that come with the edge.
Humans are not one-dimensional. And those who are kind and compassionate AND have that edge? Now we’re talking attractive!
If she truly expressed what you were trying to say, then it a very sad day for most men.
What that message is saying to most men is that they are not good enough and never will be good enough.
Above in response to Tom, you referenced that his son was not an average guy because he is not looking to JUST have sex with women. That is a very annoying and insulting comment. I guess you did not read Andrew Smiler’s piece from last week?
This is NOT the behavior of your average man in America.
@Care,
Then what is your definition of “bad” or “edge”, and what kind of edge do you offer in return?
I totally agree that having many different sides to someone is both exciting and neccessary to keep a relationship alive, and that each of us are both and then some. So I just have to wonder why so many guys get dismissed on the dating scene as boring and one-dimensional.
Hmmm … Maybe I’m just thinking too simplistically. .I put bad in quotes for a reason and I said edge for the same reason. I think sometimes people will put others into categories too quickly. Why can’t it just be enough to say I want an intelligent strong partner with multiple facets to them. Yes someone can be a generally nice person. Obviously I think most of us want that .. But the edge… Having many different sides to someone is exciting and necessary to keep a relationship alive. I want authentic and raw.. zero airs.. I like that someone… Read more »
@ Care, “I want authentic and raw.. zero airs.. I like that someone can be a Nice guy.. A jerk.. Lovey.. Quirky.. Capable.. Defiant.. Etc ..” Is that all? Are you sure you did not forget anything? You do have etc at the end. Over 6′ tall? Professional? Makes crazy $$$$ (sounds like Trump)? 10″ cock? Seriously? And might I ask just what this fine gentleman is going to get in return? Is he going to really get a high quality woman? Or is he going to get another unreliable and entitled woman? You want what you want. Right? I… Read more »
Six years IS rather a long time.
And if a “Larry”, who by his own accord is an attractive man who actually meets and dates quite a lot of women, can’t seem to find a woman who is willing to share his authenticity and more sensitive sides, then how long do you expect a more ordinary man will have to hang out there?
IF so many women truly were looking for a “Larry”, shouldn’t he have met at least one by now?
If you had been married and divorced, wouldn’t you want to take your time in choosing a life partner? I’ve been dating for six years post-divorce, too. I’ve had about 4 long-term relationships, and they’ve all been wonderful…until they weren’t. I’m much more selective now, as I imagine Larry is, too. My guess is that Larry is not dating online, and he’s meeting women randomly at bars or other social venues that don’t give him a broad selection of women who would be a good match. I’m sure he’d meet more appropriate women if he dated online. Online dating really… Read more »
Hi Sandy,
Up until now, this discussion was not about Larry NOT looking for Ms Right, a suitable woman to be his best friend and partner.
(Six years is a long time, he even says so himself.)
So I have to ask, why the sudden turn of the table?
Sandy, again,
Also, if Larry, by your assumption, is only meeting a string of similar women because he is stuck meeting them at similar venues, then your advice to “reveal himself slowly” won’t do him that much good at all, will it?
Because he will still be rather stuck in meeting the same kind of women.
If you really think he would be far better by a change of scene, e.g. turning to online dating, I’m rather curious as to why you didn’t tell him so in the first place?
@ FlyingKal,
He FlyingKal!! Good to see you’re back!
My fear is that Larry is probably as vain and narcissistic as a lot of the women he is dating.
Have no pity for him. He has been thoroughly enjoying himself over the years.
Hi Jules,
Thank you!!
Good to see you too.
BUt I don’t think I’ve ever been gone. Au contraire, I half expected you to start growing tired of me by now… 🙂
Have fun! /K
@ FlyingKal,
“I half expected you to start growing tired of me by now…”
No way. I enjoy your presence..Keep contributing..
@Julia Byrd, There is truth in what you say about women not being interested in a serious relationship with a man who’s divorced with 4 kids. I think his situation is more challenging because he’s so young. Most women in their 30s haven’t started a family of their own yet, so having an instant family would probably be a turnoff. But here’s the thing. Larry never mentioned his kids being an issue. And he did say when he treats women like crap, they blow up his phone and are all over him. So, I have to think that the kid… Read more »
Sandy, Here is my take on Larry…Essentially, in his own mind, he is a bag of chips and all that (6’2″, muscled, making crazy $$$$)…yada yada yada. But, as the great poet once remarked, “poetry is the white space between the lines..” So, when you read between the lines with Larry, he is a man who is divorced with four kids. Now, think about how many women YOU know who are truly interested in a man with four kids. She might be interested in him for something casual…..But, I know of very few women who are interested in such a… Read more »
From my own experience, there are too many women who hate nice guys who are confident, very secure of themselves and don’t take garbage from them. To be fair, you have a lot of jerk men who don’t like it when nice guys don’t take garbage from them either.
In the prior threads about nice guys, one person commented that why should women be interested in marrying nice guys years late when the women ignore the nice guys in the first place and went for the dangerous guys in their early life?
Yes John and Jules .. Very well said. I’m an intelligent strong woman .. But I also have a “bad” side. There shouldn’t be anything wrong in wanting an intelligent strong guy with a “bad” side as well. I’ve never sought out a good guy or bad guy.. There’s gotta be an edge there .. And I’ll never apologize for my edge .. nothing wrong with “bad” 🙂
@ Care, “There shouldn’t be anything wrong in wanting an intelligent strong guy with a “bad” side as well.” No, there is nothing wrong with this at all. The problem arise with the false and misleading message women send to men. If you want a nice guy with an edge, simply say so. Don’t go around simply saying you just want a nice guy. Most men today know it is all lies..Just saying.. The author suggest to men to be authentic. While most men are nice, most do not have an edge. I do not have an “edge.” Nor do… Read more »
There’s one thing I’ve found in general (yes I am going to generalize on my own experiences) with dealing with the too many of the women in my life. What they say, and what they mean are often not the same. It’s annoying as hell, frustrating, and I wonder if it’s because they’re socialized to be more polite vs saying what they truly want. I honestly don’t pay much attention to what they say, I will listen but I will watch more closely their actions. Too many times they say X and mean Y, and it’s absolutely annoying as hell.… Read more »
Maybe to some extent they want something they can’t have or they find it a challenge. I’ve heard that there are some women who try to rescue a guy. It might be as simple as this is the way her father treated her mother. I think it’s important to determine the reasons also so that women can learn to stop (maybe beyond the scope of the site) not so men are more willing to enable it.
My father was kind of controlling, critical and sometimes verbally abusive and I grew up thinking that was how men should be. The crazy thing is that even though dad was a jerk he kept us safe. He was always in charge. I never had to worry about anything. He took care of everything. When I started dating, I was so confused by guys who weren’t like that. Especially nice guys who seemed timid and intimidated by me. I didn’t feel like they’d keep me safe, instead their anxiety and eagerness to please me made me nervous. I looked for… Read more »
@Sarah Radford, Thanks so much for sharing so openly about your experience with your father and how that influenced the men you dated/were attracted to. We tend to attract someone who has the character traits of the parent we struggled most with, in a subconscious effort to heal whatever was wrong with that relationship. Luckily, through therapy, you were able to figure out that you wanted a good guy with boundaries who is secure within himself. That’s basically the message I gave Larry in my article, that the ‘edge’ is what makes the nice guy more attractive. He’s not a… Read more »
I guess there is only room for 1 person to have insecurities in a relationship. It troubles me though that it really does look like a lot of women are looking for a safe man, who isn’t a pushover, isn’t as nervous as she is, to protect her, etc. It’s like men have to be MORE secure, More confident than women and a huge amount of men are not at all like that. Very few people are confident all the time, and men who look secure often hide a lot of their insecurities and will NEVER tell their wife for… Read more »
Interesting, and when hard pressed to even define ‘edge’, nary a one can be found – even from google. It’s typical of the mid-thirties crowd and younger – when most of them haven’t even defined who they are as a core person. Some may start early, but move into your forties, do some soul searching, and you’ll come to appreciate those who communicate clearly with both words and actions. The tolerance for bullshit is inversely proportional to ones age.
The rest is just infantile emotional maturity.
Next.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=what%20does%20nice%20guy%20with%20an%20edge%20mean
I wonder if he’s looking in the same spots. If you’re trying to meet women in bars / clubs, they may be more likely to just want to “hook up”. Maybe you can meet a woman through a hobby or shared interest. You have children. Join the PTA. Women with children in my experience look more often for stability. If you hit it off with one of them, but don’t feel the romantic attraction, let them know you’re looking and for what type of woman. They may know some one.
Any more, it’s hilarious to see the back-and-forth that goes on in the comments on these “Nice Guy” articles. The problem is, *it’s all about terminology*. A “Nice Guy” is *not* a “kind, genuine man”. At least not in dating parlance he’s not. So even if you are a kind, genuine man, you need to stop identifying as a Nice Guy. You need to be confident and assertive, but also respectful. When I was dating, I had MUCH better luck and a lot more fun when I stopped identifying as a Nice Guy (but kept my kind, genuine, and respectful… Read more »
Answer to the headline. Women say they like nice guys because that’s what they were taught they should like. Women like what they like.
“Why Do Women Say They Want a Nice Guy if They Fall for Jerks?”
Because that is in indeed what they want at that moment in time. So, if they are seeking out jerks it is because they like jerks….
Why do people smoke crack, watch porn, engage prostitutes, steal, lie…..etc? Because, they like it. Otherwise, they would not be doing it. You don’t eat kamut if you don’t like it regardless of how healthy it is for you.
I have discovered that, for the most part. people do what they like the vast majority of time time.
Jules, you 1. Answered the question and 2. Summed it up simplistically.
@Julia Byrd, I don’t agree that most people date jerks because they want to. Who likes to be treated like crap? People with low self-esteem may think that’s what they deserve. Really sweet people often fall for the charm of a jerk, because they haven’t learned to recognize red flags and walk away early on. It’s a complex issue. Sometimes it’s because they grew up in emotionally unhealthy homes, where abusive behaviors were accepted as ‘normal’. I can’t tell you the reason why every woman who says she wants a nice guy falls for a jerk. But I can tell… Read more »
“I don’t agree that most people date jerks because they want to. Who likes to be treated like crap?” I think you’ve fallen into the trap of making and/or recognizing equivalencies there: People who date ‘jerks’ typically don’t see ‘a jerk who treats them like crap’ – they see exactly what they want and expect to see: Their own tastes & choices are first and foremost a reflection on themselves and their own values. Few and far between are the people who are prescient enough & self-aware enough to admit to themselves (let alone others) that their values and preferences… Read more »
@ Mostly_123
Beautifully said, indeed.
MGTOWs and Zeta Males don’t look for approval from others, including women. When you stop making it a priority it frees you. Otherwise it’s just another addiction like drugs, booze or gambling.
For starters, it bugs me that “men do things too” AGAIN came through a response. The question is “Why Do Women Say They Want a Nice Guy if They Fall for Jerks?” and to be honest with me, I’m not sure if the question was answered. Personal experience … For one thing, some men are stereotyped. My son is bi-racial. He’s a big guy, medium complexion with dreads down to the middle of his back. 1.) Women that are looking for “bad guys” are attracted to him because his appearance is that which people would think that he may have… Read more »
@Tom, Yes, men are stereotyped. And women are stereotyped. People who are not open-minded tend to stereotype and assume and pass judgment. Your son sounds like an amazing guy. He doesn’t just date women to sleep with them? I love him. He respects women. You’ve raised a good man. He will end up with a wonderful woman. But he’s not your average guy, and he’s not looking for the average woman. So it may take a while. Why do women say they want nice guys and fall for jerks? I do believe many women are seeking someone who’s nice to… Read more »