Tom Matlack wonders why men are always defined by what they do, instead of who they are, or better yet, what they love.
A mom, who my wife and I have become very fond of, cornered me recently. Her kids were playing with mine and we all were laughing, having spent plenty of summer evenings doing roughly the same thing, i.e. watching a herd of neighborhood kids having a blast together for no other reason than it is summer.
“Really, Tom,” she asked with a pensive look in her dark eyes like she was about to ask me some deep philosophical question. Now this particular friend is from Jersey and has had a brush with a life-threatening disease, so she has both a “take no prisoners” and a “let’s laugh at life” attitude that is infectious. Her getting serious all of a sudden really caught my attention.
“What do you do?” The tone of voice was like the question had been bothering her for a long time, the modern day equivalent to the search for the Holly Grail. I mean I show up at kid events during the day on weekdays dominated by moms. I sometimes take what apparently seem to be urgent phone calls, moving to the few locations where I can get cell signal. Strangers sometimes talk about reading me online.
I realized that I had presented quite a riddle to my friend. But still the question left me thinking much more deeply about the meaning of manhood and the doing.
***
This idea that manhood is defined not by who you are but what you do goes to the very core of the male dilemma, or at least this man. I have always felt there was this cosmic pecking order of masculinity and the question, “What do you do?” reduces it to its essential elements. Here would be what I imagine to be the list of potential responses in reverse order of machismo (if the conversation occurred in a bar and I was single instead of happily married the significance would only be magnified by a factor of a thousand):
10) “I am really not sure, I ask myself that question pretty much every day” (which is what I actually said)
9) I stay home with the kids, do laundry, and cook dinner for my kickass wife
8) I’m unemployed
7) Trash man
6) Construction worker
5) Teacher
4) “I Manage Money”
3) Noble Prize winning Doctor
2) U.S. President
1) I started a $100 billion Internet Company
I’m not a Marxist but one thing I think the guy got right was that propaganda can be an extremely powerful tool in warping people’s minds. And the thing that I see most frequently among my male friends is this struggle to balance their own intuitive sense of themselves against this external pressure to be and do something deemed worthwhile by the world at large: the what vs. who you are problem. Amidst this giant treadmill to answer the question of “what do you do?” is the thirst for money, power, and prestige obliterates the more subtle issues of every day life and male happiness.
If anyone but a friend who I am very fond of had asked me that question I might very well have responded, “Who the fuck cares what I do? The real question is am I happy? Who do I love and how do I express that love? What are the things in my life that inspire me?”
***
As it was, I first said I had no idea what I do and then proceeded to tell my friend my life story. I talked about my wife and kids and how much it means to me to be a good husband and father first and foremost in my life. Then I talked about riding my bike up huge mountains with my male friends even though at 50 years old and 200 pounds we are never going to make it to the Tour de France. I told her about GMP and about work I am doing in Mexico with a microfinance company, a hotel video provider, a couple of game companies, and a bunch of other crazy entrepreneurial ventures I have cooking.
In the end I am not sure she had any clearer idea of what I do day-to-day since my manhood doesn’t amend itself to a pre-determined shape to fit into a societal hole. But she did have a much better sense of who I am and what I care about, what lights me up, and what makes me as a man tick.
***
My suggestion is that we replace the obnoxious and demeaning question of “What do you do?” as somehow defining of maleness into “What do you love?” The pecking order would disappear. With inspiration, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And instead of repeating again and again the shadows of manhood we’d get down to the real thing, unique to each of us and without shame.
About Tom Matlack
When I ask “What do you do?” I am genuinely interested in how someone is spending their life. Given that for most people, a third or more of it is spent working, I’m not surprised nor disappointed when they tell me what sort of work they do. Especially if they seem enthusiastic and appear to truly enjoy their vocation.
What I dislike is people who answer “I own my own business” (which really translates to “Who cares what I actually do – I think I’m important and successful and want you to respect me for that reason”) and sometimes it actually takes several follow-up questions before I find out how they actually spend their working hours.
I wonder if some people’s inclination to be grandiose and/or evasive in answering the simple “what do you do?” question might be related to just the sort of disconnect this article explores.
I hate the question myself. I am unemployed and have been for quite a few years due to illness, I hate having to explain why and hate the feeling of being seen as worthless. In Australia many view people that don’t work as lazy, pathetic, “leeches to my tax money”, etc. It’s a terrible feeling to be sick n unable to work and the question itself helped make me nervous to go out in public n meet people. It definitely makes me avoid asking women out, I doubt many would truly understand and still be attracted so I avoid the dating game.
I am getting better slowly but at the moment I do feel like less of a person because I have no job, I know I shouldn’t but it’s hard to avoid feeling that way when you know for a fact most people value independent people. I highly doubt I will be seen as attractive by most women, the most common thing I see with them in their preferences for dating is wanting a man to be independent and employed. Even though I wouldn’t be relying on them for money as I have alternative means, I doubt many would be interested.
Hey Archy I hope you continue to heal. And remember what you love is more important than what you do.
Thank-you.
Men Build.
Whether its things, families, business, futures, careers, knowledge…. Men Build.
If you don’t build,,,, sorry to say it, but you are just a guy.
Men Build
YOU don’t define MY masculinity, thank you very much. Or femininity, for that matter.
Not speaking on fem. or masc…. Speaking about Men – as people who create today for tomorrow’s betterment.
Feminine Men build, Masculine Build.
One of the most feminine men I knew was a damn good teacher and parent. Many people are better of because of his influence. He built.
I get asked “what do you do” all the time. I don’t think that it’s a gendered question. “Do you have kids?” is a question that women always ask me, which annoys me because I don’t have kids and when I say “no” the conversation always grinds to an awkward halt. I’d rather be asked about work.
The truth is, there are only a limited number of questions that you can politely ask a stranger or casual acquaintance without being intrusive.
Another thought on this — making conversation is difficult for a lot of people. I don’t really like talking about myself and I don’t like questions that are too personal or that force me to elaborate about my life, interests, family or whatever. I find it stressful when someone asks me too many personal questions in a social setting. I remembe chatting with a woman at a cocktail party at a business conference and one of the first things she said to me was, “what are the three most important things in your life?” in a very chipper voice. The first thought that went through my head was, “who the f$&@ are you?” I felt cornered, like she had pounced on me with a personality quiz from a women’s magazine and was demanding that I come up with interesting.
So, what is appropriate small talk. I don’t watch sports, and I don’t have kids. So really there isn’t much left to make small talk about, except people’s jobs and the weather. and I live in California where the weather is almost always nice. Avoid politics and religion. That leaves jobs, or nothing!
Sarah, while it’s true that this question is asked much more frequently to women(With most women now working full time, it makes sence). It’s not ment in the same tone as it’s asked of men. Most of the time, with women, it is ment as ‘small talk’. Example, You could answer the above question with” I’m a senior partner with a ‘white shoe’ law firm.” and that would impress people for sure. However, you could answer” I’m a ‘stay at home mom who volenteers at the local hospital and vice president of the P.T.A. at my child’s school” and THAT would probably impress quite a few people. Now, reverse the gender and you wouldn’t impress nearly as many people. Now I know you shouldn’t live your life trying to impress others (especially strangers). But going through this time after time does wear you down!
What it comes down to is that many still “expect” men to play a particular role and the same expectations are not applied to women. And to be more accurate, better not apply them to women. Truth is if you have a couple (no kids) and he works and she doesn’t, it’s okay because she’s made a choice. In reverse, she works and he doesn’t, he’s a lazy jerk.
Take another couple with kids. He works, she doesn’t … no questions asked. She works and he doesn’t … why isn’t he working, can’t find a job, been laid off? OR he’s a lazy jerk.
Damn right. Men feel that pressure to be the producer and deliver the bacon and it shapes our choices in college, career, and lifestyle.
Few people question a woman who aspires to stay home and take care of the kids, though we might privately or openly think it sounds a bit ‘retro’. But – anecdotally – I know *lots* of couples for which this is the case. I do not know a single one with a full time stay at home dad. (social circle: large NE USA city and suburbs, middle class educated professionals).
Well there are plenty of stay at home dads, and moms for that matter. The issue is really that both stay at home moms and dads are a lot more than that. If asked I would say that I am a dad first. I don’t have an office outside my house. But the question implies that is all that I am. I agree with you that the assumption puts a particular pressure on men. Which is why I hate the question.
I guess in the context of this article, it is about stay at home dads. Nonetheless though, throughout the years where my kids were growing up and my wife was at home and I was the wage earner, I am proud to say that I would say back then when asked ..”I am a dad first” as well. This is something that I hope, as men expand their understanding of themselves as father, will never lose sight of as wage earners.
The old house we have, has an open staircase where I have a family photos gallery wall of the kids from birth to now. A new gallery wall has been started in the upstairs hallway for my grandson and continued family life. I don’t have certificates, awards, copies of pay checks or old office door plaques with my career titles, or W2’s and bank statements on my walks. I have my family and that’s who I am and who I was and who I will forever be …. Dad, husband, brother, son. Life IS good.
Agreed, there are far more dimensions to a person than their job or their stay-at-home-parent status.
“What do you love?”
Never happen. …other than in some backwoods Oregon commune (and I’m FROM Oregon!).
After 30 years of being asked this question, oftimes by those who’ve been close to me, and given that the work that I do is Eminently Un-niche-able, I have a short list of responses that open conversation…
The real exploration is whether there is a way to “train” communities to learn about individuals from another point of view…our sad, common denominator of “what do you do?” is, I think, simply a lame, colloquially-originated first-step that has become heavily-weighted with subtext. Perhaps even a simple “Who are you?” could be answered in more enlightened and enlightening ways….
Starting a conversation with “Who are you?” could be useful, as it would tell me that the person asking is either a pretentious ass or a Babylon5 fan. And unless you’re dressed in a full Vorlon environmental suit, I’d probably assume the former.
This one’s easy: because only women have inherent value, not men.
Men have always been judged by their utility to women (and society more generally), whereas women have always had inherent value due to the obvious reproductive limitations of our species. For millenia, who a man loved or who he was was simply not as important as what he could do—and human cultures reinforced this particularly nasty bit of misandry to ensure their own survival.
Times have obviously changed, but we still assess men based on their utility for two reasons: 1) force of habit, and 2) because women, generally, are the primary beneficiaries of this misandry. Most of the legislative and cultural goals pursued by institutional feminist power either discount men entirely or seek to compel/maintain male utility to exclusion of other facets of masculine well-being.
“What do you do?” persists as the primary way we evaluate men because women want it that way, and most men want to make women happy and, generally, want to comply with them—especially as they tend to have more power in the sexual marketplace.
“What do you do?” is really just enforced male disposability by other means.
I agree the subtext is always “How are you proving your worth to society”. It might even be considered a form of gender policing.
Quite. But I must emphasize a deeper truth: that the current regime remains in place because the core beneficiaries are women, as a demographic.
This site, and its authors, seemed determined to avoid addressing this basic reality underlying it all. Which is sad, because the first step to effecting change is to understand the incentives and beneficiaries of the current regime.
Then why am I asked this question all the time? I agree that men are often defined by their jobs, but the question itself is not “gender policing” if women get the same question.
I wouldn’t say women want it that way. Old-fashioned people want it that way, and they come in both genders.
Feminism is all about fighting to not have it that way. We want to be valued by what we choose to do rather than by our bodies’ reproductive parts. I’ve had conversations with other career-focused women about how nice it’d be to find a man willing to be a stay-at-home dad. Male reproductive ability it just as essential as the female – it takes two to tango, and two to raise a child without being over-busy and/or broke. So, when people obsess about male earning potential it really pisses me off – it perpetuates a bias that’s harmful to both genders.
And when a woman is asked what she does it is an assault on her spouse- a regular mine field….
Oh, that sounds like a job that pays bills- guess he doesn’t provide.
Oh, that sounds like a hobby- guess he is doing well.
Oh, is he a Neanderthal that won’t allow her to work?
Oh, she stays at home I certainly hope he drags his ass out of bed at the crack of dawn Saturday morning to make up for his missed chores.
Oops, sorry he/she.
This is a notion I have been butting heads with in earnest ever since I lost my job last October. Being forced by circumstance to answer that question for myself has been a real struggle. I am unlearning a lot of conditioning (both societal and self-imposed) in my search for who I am and what I love. I surprised myself at a dinner party not long ago, one hosted by one of my girlfriend’s colleagues (my girlfriend is a partner in a law firm), when the inevitable question came up from one of the other guests: “And what do you do?” Without thinking about it, I blurted out “I am a writer, I photograph things and I’m an architect.”
Never mind that I haven’t managed to get anything published yet, and the amount of photos I have sold is less than ten, and that I was currently unemployed as an architect. What was significant to me was that the first things out of my mouth were things that I have come to love to do, not the thing for which I was schooled and trained. Finally, I was able to talk about what makes the whole of me, instead of that which I (used to) do for money!
It is troubling that many people can’t seem to fathom that a man (or any one, for that matter) doesn’t have to do one society-approved definable thing in order to be of value to himself, his family and to society at large. I discussed this with my GF at length one night, and I expressed my frustration that those who do necessary things (like cook and clean) which aren’t paid work (but valuable nonetheless) seem to at best get indifference and puzzlement.
I recognize the attraction of having a single, paying definition of the self. It’s easier to explain, it’s quantifiable without a lot of effort and people like to categorize. However, that doesn’t strip the value from that which is mutli-faceted and not just one thing. I have realized within myself that I am more than my occupation. More importantly, I am much happier being all the things that I love than I am being pigeonholed by “what I do.”
Exactly Kevin. Awesome comment. You said what I feel a lot better than I did. Just keep going bro.
BTW, I love the picture of the children in a social setting accompanying this article. What do you do? I eat hot dogs on the beach in the summer!
Yeah, I was looking at that picture and thinking” How wonderful it was back then to be able to just enjoy life!” No one judgeing you for ‘What you do’.
Is this more commonly asked of men than women in the US? I haven’t noticed it being over here. For me the question “What are you doing these days” ranks with “Terrible/great/ambivalent weather, isn’t it?” as a simple question anyone can answer and everyone will have an opinion on. I do agree that men are sometimes defined by their job way too much (both by themselves and others) but this questions isn’t necessarily one of them.
Most of the time I’d rather listen to people talk about their jobs than their kids. Their jobs are usually more interesting. People’s jobs are often really varied and different, whereas most people’s kids are doing more or less the same stuff. He plays this sport, does this insteument, he’s SO SMART, he’s doing so well in school, yadda yadda yadda… Heard it a million times. I know that sounds snarky but it’s true….
My husband stayed home for 6.5 years taking care of our kids while I worked as program manager. It was a perfect arrangement for us, and given that we’re in the 21st century I was SHOCKED that people made snide comments to my husband about me being his “sugar mama.” Ugh. He’s in school now to become an elementary school teacher and works part time as a teacher’s assistant in our kids’ school.
Anyway, I do a lot. I wrote a book that was published in April, am working on two more books and marketing the first with my publisher. I also work full time as a program manager in a tech firm, started two nonprofit organizations, one of which I still lead and do events for, participate in advocacy initiatives globally, and helped write a resolution that received full bi-partisan support at my state capitol. I don’t, however, do laundry, pay bills, cook, take care of the yard, take out the trash or worry about my kids when I’m doing book signings or presentations on congenital heart disease, because my husband has our family covered.
This is not women’s work. This is parenting, and I’m the first to admit my husband is a better, more consistent, and more engaged parent than I am. I am a provider and a community leader, and my husband is my equal partner who lifts me up to be able to do those things. Does that make me less of a woman or him less of a man? I don’t think so. It makes each of us more human and able to pursue our passions and use our abilities to better society. I feel the same way about stay at home moms or moms who work part time so their husbands have more career opportunities. I think the issue is, who wants more career opportunities? I care about my career as a means to provide for my family, but I care far more about my writing and advocacy work as a means to change the world. My husband lets me do that not by granting permission but by giving stability and support.
My kids have no gender stereotype issues. My daughter came late to Barbies after playing with her cousins, and my son had a baby doll when he was little because there were no channels of choice for them. They choose what they like and follow their passions. They are whole people, and I thank their dad for making them so. Our arrangement works because it’s right for us and we don’t care what the rest of the world thinks we “should” be doing. Maybe if we each cared more about what happened inside of our own homes than outside of them, society would be a happier place for all of us.
“I’m a doctor, I cure people of feminism”
Once upon a time, in many cultures, the answer was not the question, “what do you love” but was something along the lines of “Jesus loves you” and that was a period. Regardless. Don’t most religions start with that basic, inherent, equal, stand-alone value? The humanist values which underlie our democracy ditto. Doctor, lawyer, stay at home mom, indian chief. One vote, you count for one and you count because you count. But isn’t it fading? (It’s 3am and the dog stole my place in bed so I might be a bit dark here.) Aren’t we getting trapped in ranking — who is prettier, richer, taller, whatever — and losing sense of linking — our common values, needs, loves and, btw, interest in working together? The problem with the what do you do question is if the answer is in the service of ranking, which is where it took you. The answer pegs you. And if our society is (maybe yet again) moving away from those humanist values and towards a more materialist set of markers, we are going to have fewer answers to the questions we need good answers for. For our kids and for ourselves.
BUT, I will say that I think in a lot of ways, the kids get it. Looking at them at play, at the beach, at my son’s camp, I see a lot of joy and appreciation each for the other. For the uniqueness. For the funny guy, the girl who can really run, the joy just in being together. Please let them keep that going forward; worry a bit less about tugging at the bikini or having the fattest wallet and a bit more about those gifts that have every value but can’t be valued. (I think it is time to go move the dog.)
E.
Hello Tom,
I have have got to know Elena and after reading your article I feel I know you a bit.
It rings true for me, who also dislikes the ?’s where do you live and what does your
father do for a living. It is not how you make your living that defines you it is how you
spend your free time that tells another the story of who one is. Thank you for writing
this article.
Lori-Ann Hogg
This is my second response for some reason my first did not post.
ps I am in the picture
“What do you do?” is simply a question, a collection of words. You are free to interpret and make that mean whatever you wish. The “PROBLEM” here is not the question, but rather the interpretation and thus the inclination to not take responsibility for your own interpretation. There are many reasons why someone would ask that question, and as the person receiving it, you are not exactly 100% sure of the asker’s intentions. In my opinion, your readers would be better served by framing this substantially important issue along the lines of: “Don’t be led down the unrewarding path of equating career and self worth” (Not exactly a headline, I understand). Your message is crucial and important: We choose who and what we are…every day in every way. Fantastic issue for men to discuss and ponder!
I totally agree, women HATE this question too. This is a lady version of your list.
10) “I Manage Money”
9) Lawyer
8) Scientist
7) Unemployed
6) Cleaning lady
5) Waitress
4) PR Girl
3) Model
2) Nurse
1) Kindergarten teacher
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